Mists of Pandaria

[Sheepherder]

You're right, they shouldn't remove slots like rings. They should add more slots! 10 ring slots for each of your fingers would obviously make gear in WoW even better!  

God you're such an idiot.  It's three per hand, tops.  Else the enchantments interfere with each other.  You can compensate for that though with extra trinkets and maybe a relic to go with your ranged weapon.  Eyewear slot too maybe.  No, fuck it, screw the "maybe": I want to wear a monocle under my helm.

[Nevermore]

You're right, they shouldn't remove slots like rings. They should add more slots! 10 ring slots for each of your fingers would obviously make gear in WoW even better!  

God you're such an idiot.  It's three per hand, tops.  Else the enchantments interfere with each other.  You can compensate for that though with extra trinkets and maybe a relic to go with your ranged weapon.  Eyewear slot too maybe.  No, fuck it, screw the "maybe": I want to wear a monocle under my helm.

The Mandarin disagrees with you.

[Wolf]

I wouldn't mind if rings & amulets went. For me gear is a tool and the less stuff there is on loot tables, the better chance of a 10m team getting what they want. Also I feel like they're not thinking at times, there is NO reason for the 2 daggers in Dragon Soul to exist, other than LFR difficulty. Tier 11 had 12 bosses and 1 dagger, and back then rogues actually cared about daggers. Also 25m rogues can go to hell, so that's that 

[SurfD]

I think rings and necks exist somewhat to help with itemization balance.  They let you get away with itemizing a few non armor slots with "perfect" itemization for a wide variety of classes, where often even a different spec of the same class may have wildly different stat priorities.  If it werent for rings necks and trinkets, they would pretty much have to create spec specific sets for individual classes, or itemize like 6 different sets of boots / bracers / belts for each armor type or something like that.  Necks / rings etc let them have a nice balance of "yes, this set piece is not perfectly itemized for your class+spec but you can make up the difference with this ring / neck that is.

[Sheepherder]

That's the thing Wolf: they're only getting rid of thrown items and relics, which are with a few exceptions pretty much gone from the loots lists already anyways.  In trade, you're going to cut yourself and threaten to quit life every time a bow or gun drops because there is now one class that can use them.  Either that, or every hunter in the game will end up shafted (har har) because their damn weapon just won't drop from the one boss that drops it.

[Wolf]

that already happens. Only hunters use Agility bows, since they're itemized for them. Rogues have a pretty, awesomely itemized throwing weapon, or knife, or something on the valor vendor that they always end up using. So that changes nothing.

It's silly slots that get no use other than something you must refresh every tier, plus minrange which has been retarded for hunters for ages. No need to read more into it.

[Merusk]

Not that I've participated in it but it sounds like this is what LFR needs:

1) No-roll unless it's for the spec you are at the moment the boss dies.
2) Move to the TOC tokens instead of the bullshit "shoulder/ chest/ leg" token system that's only going to screw everyone.
2a) No-roll on the above tokens if you've got a full set for your spec in your bags.

Weapons you can easily move to unique. Mainhand/ offhand aren't ever supposed to be the same speed anyway, unless you're an Enh shaman, right?  With all the classfuckery in MoP you can't even say that Enh shaman will still need dual slows and won't be moved to the similar slow main/ fast off of other classes.

[Ironwood]

En Shammy, DPS Warrior, Combat Rogue, Ice Deathknight.

I think that's it.

[Merusk]

Ice DKs are back do DW as best DPS?  They've shifted back and forth on that one and had wanted 2h to be the preferred method.

Combat is still slow/ fast paradigm from what I just looked up on Mr. Robot.

Fury uses Titan's Grip with 2h weapons, so yeah that's a problem. Particularly if trying to maximize with your racial bonus as an Orc or Human.  So there's some futzing that needs to be done with them and Enh shaman.

[Wolf]

warriors got no place being fury at the moment anyway. Arms is so broken...

afaik frost is looking for highest DPS on weapons and really don't care if it's fast or slow. There has been 1 str one-hander in both last tiers, so it's not like there's a choice :)

[Ironwood]

Not really.  It's the wiggly Ann Summers sword at 378 and that's it.

[Rokal]

Alternatively, rings would serve more purpose in the game if they were visible on your character. Wouldn't need to be anything complex, just something simple that will go well with whatever your class armor that tier is.

I'd actually love to see more purely cosmetic slots in the game. The trophies you could attach to armor were one of the few things I liked about Warhammer Online.

[Lantyssa]

The solution to people getting bored of your bullshit loot grind isn't to streamline it by removing a slot or two, it's to drop more fucking loot.  Preferably by giving each person their own separate loot table for at least a few bosses in each instance.

This right here would solve the problem of someone taking items they don't need.

[Paelos]

The RNG loot system is becoming progressively more outdated. Gamers simply won't put up with the loot lottery anymore. They want to beat the content, not farm it because the drop rates suck.

[Wolf]

Farming is part of the process, I don't mind it much. RNG is bad. I can give you a couple of awesome personal examples - Chimaeron's loot table is 12 items, 2 drop at a time in 10m, he drops the only mail agility bracers in t11. We have 26 kills between normal and heroic and have not had it drop. Lord Rhyolith's loot table in Firelands has 20 items, 2 at a time - one of them the bis int mail bracer, out of 25kills - 0 bracers.

We have a number of items like that, that's not a good system. Once something drops it should have a lower chance of droping, while the rest of the loot table should have a higher chance. Between that, the valour items, etc it's ok. Some randomness to keep it fresh is not bad. What we have right now is beyond retarded.

[Paelos]

Farming is only part of the process because we accept it as part of the process. More and more, people are rejecting that idea and demanding more personalized looting options. People aren't willing to put up with items dropping that have no available class in the actual raid, or the same thing dropping over and over.

Killing the same thing over and over and over? It's similar to the grinding system that got replaced by quests. We moved on from that, we need to move on from farming bosses.

[Rokal]

DDO lets everyone in the party have their own chest for loot and I can't really say I'm a fan. It makes things more complicated when you actually do want to trade something with another player in your group (since you need to be paying close attention to what they got). I think it would be a recipe for disaster in WoW as well, if they did let you trade equipment, because suddenly you have people fighting over gear that is legitimately 'theirs' but might be considerably more useful for someone else in the group. Alternatively if loot wasn't trade-able, you're going to be really bitter when the priest in your group gets the axe you've been wanting. You could make it so that only gear you could actually use drops from, but I think that's a less exciting gear model that removes the lottery-high WoW loot provides. It would make WoW even more of a solitary experience: it's not a group of people sharing loot and then being happy for their guild-mate that got it.

Honestly, I'm pretty happy with how loot works in the game right now as someone that still mostly runs dungeons and raids within guild. Where it feels broken is in pugs where you don't even like or care about the people you're playing with, you just want loot.

Going back to cosmetic items, that would be a way to increase the amount of loot that dropped from bosses and your chance to get something without increasing player power or greatly changing the loot model. If, for example, every T13 boss dropped what they dropped right now and 1-2 cosmetic items from an expanded loot table.

[Paelos]

Is there a reason why all loot can't be handled via badges? Is there even a need for an RNG loot drop system anymore? Why not just take DKP to it's logical conclusion like WoW has already done with so many things?

[Ingmar]

I find random loot more fun personally, as long as the badge system is there as a failsafe for unlucky streaks.

[Rokal]

Is there a reason why all loot can't be handled via badges? Is there even a need for an RNG loot drop system anymore? Why not just take DKP to it's logical conclusion like WoW has already done with so many things?

A lot of people just seem to find badge loot less exciting, myself included. I found I was much happier when I got a tier piece in T13 from a boss than when I bought a tier piece in T12, for example. Badge gear is expected and you know exactly when you'll obtain it. There is no surprise, and it's just not quite as fun as the semi-RNG model.

I would like to see what Wolf suggested, where items that haven't been dropping for your guild slowly get an increased chance to drop. It keeps the excitement of the RNG model while also removing some of the frustration of never seeing the loot you want. True story: I ran Onyxia for a whole year back in vanilla before my guild saw a single Stormrage (Druid T2) hat.

[Fordel]

I find random loot more fun personally, as long as the badge system is there as a failsafe for unlucky streaks.

You weren't saying that on Botanica run 521.

[Ingmar]

It's like you IGNORED the part I just said about the badges!

[Fordel]

IF the badge system covered the entire loot table, you might of had a valid point.

It never has so you can go run Botanica again.

[Ingmar]

That's fine, I liked Botanica. 

[Fordel]

Not after the 500th time you didn't. I was there remember!

[Ingmar]

You're projecting your own issues on to me, sir.

[Fordel]

"Baaaw, I have to respec to DPS"

[Rokal]

IF the badge system covered the entire loot table, you might of had a valid point.

It never has so you can go run Botanica again.

Badge system pretty much covers the entire loot table in T13. The only slots it doesn't cover are shoulders and main weapon iirc.

[Fordel]

The shoulders were the piece I needed for my Paladin tank from Botanica. So I could hit the uncrushable point with holyshield up and not wipe our Kara raids.


Good times 

[apocrypha]

IF the badge system covered the entire loot table, you might of had a valid point.

*cough*

might have

 

[Fordel]

My context was clear, don't start with me unless you want to run Botanica too.

[Lantyssa]

I find random loot more fun personally, as long as the badge system is there as a failsafe for unlucky streaks.

Only if it's Diablo-style truly random loot.  If it's just a lottery roll for a small number of items it doesn't interest me any more than a token system.

[Fordel]

I find random loot more fun personally, as long as the badge system is there as a failsafe for unlucky streaks.

Only if it's Diablo-style truly random loot.  If it's just a lottery roll for a small number of items it doesn't interest me any more than a token system.

I hate Diablo loot even more.

[Paelos]

Badge system pretty much covers the entire loot table in T13. The only slots it doesn't cover are shoulders and main weapon iirc.

Pretty much might as well be no. Besides, what are the two most obvious pieces on WoW characters? Shoulders and weapons.

[SurfD]

And yet you could buy MH weapons for tokens / valor equivilent off the Sunwell Vendor back at the end of Burning Crusade, so it's not like they are unwilling to go that way.