Mists of Pandaria

[Wolf]

what rokal said.

Melee slot for hunters and range slot for everyone else is just a stats slot anyway, they're streamlining a bit. Doesn't keep MMO champion kids from going all like "they're killing the magic of the game". And hunter min-range had to go 2 expansions ago.

[SurfD]

The pet battle is the one thing about the expansion which actually interests me.

I'm nonplussed. If it's shit, I'll ignore it. If it's fun, I may tool around with it on occasion.

So anyway - enchants - what would be the recommendation for inexpensive melee levelling enchants for 80-85?

Also - what's all this about removing the ranged slot and classes like Hunters only using a bow, mages losing daggers and staves and instead having only wands/etc?

I don't know about mages but hunters don't have to have a minimum range and can just use bows/guns so good for them.

From what I understand, they are removing the Ranged slot, and rolling that slot into the different characters in different ways.
- Hunters are losing all their mele attacks (raptor strike, etc) and their bow becomes a main hand, 2h weapon.  They lose the deadzone completely.  They will still be able to equip standard mele weapons that the class could previously use, but only for cosmetic purposes (so Huntards dont bitch about now having X cool weapon they are unable to equip).
- Wands are being changed to a Main Hand weapon, and will be re-itemized accordingly to adjust stats for new slot.  Far as i know, no weapon type changes are being made to the "wand classes", it just means that there will now be a few items that only Cloth Casters can use in main hand slots (I guess leaving the shaman / druid an actual valid reason in claming priority on caster daggers or something)
- All the Totem classes (Druid, Shaman, etc) will get some kind of flat stats boost to balance the loss of their ranged slot "stat thing".
- Warriors / Rogues lose throwing weapons, gain some kind of flat stats boost, and just have their abilities that used to use / require a throwing weapon adjusted to use their main hand weapon instead.

[ghost]

- Hunters are losing all their mele attacks (raptor strike, etc) and their bow becomes a main hand, 2h weapon.  They lose the deadzone completely.  They will still be able to equip standard mele weapons that the class could previously use, but only for cosmetic purposes (so Huntards dont bitch about now having X cool weapon they are unable to equip).
- Wands are being changed to a Main Hand weapon, and will be re-itemized accordingly to adjust stats for new slot.  Far as i know, no weapon type changes are being made to the "wand classes", it just means that there will now be a few items that only Cloth Casters can use in main hand slots (I guess leaving the shaman / druid an actual valid reason in claming priority on caster daggers or something)
- All the Totem classes (Druid, Shaman, etc) will get some kind of flat stats boost to balance the loss of their ranged slot "stat thing".
- Warriors / Rogues lose throwing weapons, gain some kind of flat stats boost, and just have their abilities that used to use / require a throwing weapon adjusted to use their main hand weapon instead.

Wow.  Why don't they just give everyone the same damned setup, then they won't even have to have classes. 

[Ingmar]

Er, what?

[dusematic]

Er, what?

He's saying that the homogenization is a turn off.  I tend to agree.  Balance is an ideal that will never be realized.  As long as you have a decent player base/class ration then it's all good.

[Ingmar]

I'm not sure I buy that eliminating a pointless inventory slot counts as homogenization. I could see the argument when they started making the tanks more similar mechanically, but this isn't really that kind of thing.

[Rokal]

Isn't this the opposite of homogenization? Now the weapons each class uses will be more distinct. Hunters really only had melee weapons at this point because everyone had something for the primary/secondary weapon slots and that kept classes equal. Every class basically uses one weapon and then has some sort of stat stick, whether it be a wand, a relic, or a throwing weapon. I'll be glad to see these pointless slots go.

[SurfD]

Isn't this the opposite of homogenization? Now the weapons each class uses will be more distinct. Hunters really only had melee weapons at this point because everyone had something for the primary/secondary weapon slots and that kept classes equal. Every class basically uses one weapon and then has some sort of stat stick, whether it be a wand, a relic, or a throwing weapon. I'll be glad to see these pointless slots go.

This pretty much summs things up pretty well.  They are killing off the "stat stick" slot for all the classes.  It just seems a bit more complicated then it looks because one class (hunter) currently uses their primary weapon slot as their stat stick, while a few others (warrior, rogue, clothies) had a stat stick that was largely useless but could still be used for something (thrown weapon / wand).  Then you had the hybrids who simply had a pure out and out stat stick (relic items, which have absolutely no function in the current build but to add a flat amount of stats to balance against the other classes ranged slot stat sticks).

[Wolf]

I just wish all the vanilla people/anti-homogenization people would go away. No the game wasn't better back then. No it wasn't fun 16% of your damage (which is something like a full tier of difference) to depend on having 1 of 2 two classes, or keeping some hit gear around just in case your shadow priest doesn't show up. No the game wasn't fun when you had to spend 3 hours in the blasted lands getting ready for raid or sit in IF for 2 hours hoping to maybe get an UBRS run that won't fail at blackhand. Only to lose your spaulders of valor to someone that cheerfully announces it's his first run ever and isn't it great guys. Three times. （╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[Ironwood]

Sure, but the LFR loot system needs a serious second look.

[Lantyssa]

Isn't this the opposite of homogenization? Now the weapons each class uses will be more distinct. Hunters really only had melee weapons at this point because everyone had something for the primary/secondary weapon slots and that kept classes equal. Every class basically uses one weapon and then has some sort of stat stick, whether it be a wand, a relic, or a throwing weapon. I'll be glad to see these pointless slots go.

So we can get rid of rings, and trinkets, and separate pieces of armor, and why not just make all your stats based upon the single weapon you can equip?  Sounds like loads of fun in an item-centric game!

[luckton]

So we can get rid of rings, and trinkets, and separate pieces of armor, and why not just make all your stats based upon the single weapon you can equip?  Sounds like loads of fun in an item-centric game!

Going a little overboard, me thinks.  Wands were pointless stat-sticks for casters, thrown/ranged weapons were silly for melee, and melee weapons were silly for ranged.  In all, each class is loosing one item slot that they no longer have to hope and pray drops for them and that they win the roll.  I'm sure we can get along just fine trying to gear out two trinket slots, two rings, boots, legs, belt, gloves, wrist, chest, back, neck, head, and primary weapon.  Would it be better if we made the shirt and tabard slots have stats instead?

[Minvaren]

Would it be better if we made the shirt and tabard slots have stats instead?

To be honest, I was always surprised that those two slots couldn't have stats. 

[Merusk]

Would it be better if we made the shirt and tabard slots have stats instead?

To be honest, I was always surprised that those two slots couldn't have stats. 

It breaks the fantasy trope too much.  What story has had the epic sweat-stained T-Shirt of Gnarl the Destroyer?  Or the dingy tunic/ tabard of the crusader being hunted for its legendary power?

Amulets, Rings, Armor, Weapons.  Maybe body parts that can be worn as one of the above.  Those are your tropes and Blizzard isn't known for creating new ones.  Even cloaks w/ stats was kind of pushing it.

[Zetor]

Well, there are this tabard and this shirt, though those aren't really stats, per se  

[Rokal]

So we can get rid of rings, and trinkets, and separate pieces of armor, and why not just make all your stats based upon the single weapon you can equip?  Sounds like loads of fun in an item-centric game!

Trinkets don't feel like 'stat sticks' because they get flavor through unique procs or effects. BiS trinkets (until this tier and the Deathwing trinkets) varied widely between specs, so they were one of the most interesting gear slots in the game. Armor determines your appearance and also has set bonuses for anyone really playing end-game, so they are also more than just 'stat sticks'. Rings and necklaces aren't particularly interesting, and are probably the least exciting gear slots in the game next to literal stat-sticks at the moment, so I'd be fine seeing them retire in the future.

[Simond]

Sure, but the LFR loot system needs a serious second look.

I'm fairly sure I remember reading that it's getting one for MoP launch - this is just the "Oh fuck we need something that mostly works for 4.3 LFR" iteration.

[Zetor]

My favorite people are the ones who roll on the Deathwing weapons that they already had equipped for the entire fight (and not dual-wielders either). So far I'm 0-6 on Gurthalak, and 3 of those were people who already had one. OK, maybe one of them was getting a second one for a titan's grip fury spec.

[Ironwood]

Yes, that's annoying, especially when they say 'No, I just equipped it' and then you point out it's gemmed and transmogged AND reforged.

And then he gets kicked as the rest of the raid laughs except me because, let's be honest, he's got the gear and I don't.

And then there's the fucking Elemental guys who are counted as DPS so they fucking take your agility shit for your enhancement guy even though their offspec is healing because they're CUNTS and you just want to Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them and Stab Them andStab Them and Stab Them.

[Wolf]

so you still haven't had the whisper "I can sell it to you if you want it that bad"? I'm scared at the rage this will cause

[Miasma]

You can't trade money (since the person probably isn't in your realm) but people do roll on tier pieces they already have with the hopes of trading it with the winner of a different piece they need.  They basically need to make all lfr loot non tradable.  Being able to trade loot for a couple hours to fix mistakes in raids was a great addition but now it's being used to screw people more often than it is used to fix mistakes (in lfr).

Overall lfr is great but Blizzard does have to take a cynical second look at how loot is handled because there are always a few pig fuckers in every lfr run.

[Ironwood]

They need to make it so that you can't need on something that you have, that isn't your spec or that you have an item that is better than.

Either that or fix people being broken.

[luckton]

They need to make it so that you can't need on something that you have, that isn't your spec or that you have an item that is better than.

Either that or fix people being broken.

Put the Unique tag on LFR drops.  Done.

[Rokal]

That's not quite enough, as there are some weapons people legitimately want two of (enh shaman, fury war, etc.). I think non-tradeable for LFR loot is way to go. Shouldn't have a vendor price or be DE'able either. There should be literally no reason to take an item you don't need, unless you are just a dick.

[Ironwood]

You're clearly missing the problem.

 

[Rokal]

There are reasons besides 'be a dick" right now which include trading for other loot that dropped, giving it to a guildie that also was in the raid, DE'ing it, or selling it. The WoW community is pretty bad, but I think the majority of the problems would go away if people had absolutely no reason to roll besides fucking everyone else over.

[Ingmar]

There would also be a side effect of making it a lot clearer when someone really just is being a dick, and they'd then presumably be easier to report for griefing.

[Sjofn]

Even cloaks w/ stats was kind of pushing it.

A cloak with stats (or at least a "magic" cloak) isn't pushing it at all.

[Sheepherder]

Removing item slots is a dumb move.  People like loot, people like getting upgrades, more slots means more upgrades.  The solution to people getting bored of your bullshit loot grind isn't to streamline it by removing a slot or two, it's to drop more fucking loot.  Preferably by giving each person their own separate loot table for at least a few bosses in each instance.  Oh, and crank the drop rates in deprecated heroics right the fuck up, give people a reason to pass on loot (more points), and remove the incentive to roll on shit you don't need.

[luckton]

Removing item slots is a dumb move.  People like loot, people like getting upgrades, more slots means more upgrades.  The solution to people getting bored of your bullshit loot grind isn't to streamline it by removing a slot or two, it's to drop more fucking loot.  Preferably by giving each person their own separate loot table for at least a few bosses in each instance.  Oh, and crank the drop rates in deprecated heroics right the fuck up, give people a reason to pass on loot (more points), and remove the incentive to roll on shit you don't need.

Or hell, let's just take it to the next level and have a goblin standing by the entrance that will hand you a loot bag just for showing up to the dungeon 

[Sheepherder]

Because 10 300 000 10 200 000 people can't be wrong.

[Fordel]

I would in fact like a free bag of loot.

[Miasma]

Removing item slots is a dumb move.  People like loot, people like getting upgrades, more slots means more upgrades.  The solution to people getting bored of your bullshit loot grind isn't to streamline it by removing a slot or two, it's to drop more fucking loot.  Preferably by giving each person their own separate loot table for at least a few bosses in each instance.  Oh, and crank the drop rates in deprecated heroics right the fuck up, give people a reason to pass on loot (more points), and remove the incentive to roll on shit you don't need.

Or hell, let's just take it to the next level and have a goblin standing by the entrance that will hand you a loot bag just for showing up to the dungeon 

What do you think justice and valor points are?

[Rokal]

Removing item slots is a dumb move.  People like loot, people like getting upgrades, more slots means more upgrades.  The solution to people getting bored of your bullshit loot grind isn't to streamline it by removing a slot or two, it's to drop more fucking loot.  Preferably by giving each person their own separate loot table for at least a few bosses in each instance.  Oh, and crank the drop rates in deprecated heroics right the fuck up, give people a reason to pass on loot (more points), and remove the incentive to roll on shit you don't need.

You're right, they shouldn't remove slots like rings. They should add more slots! 10 ring slots for each of your fingers would obviously make gear in WoW even better! 

[Rendakor]

I liked having a melee weapon as a hunter; properly using Raptor Strike, Wing Clip and Counterattack made one a better PVPer (at least back when I last played my hunter). Not having a minimum range is nice, I guess, but I really don't like the homogenization. Also put me in the "more slots, not less, yes I'll wear 10 rings thankyouverymuch" camp.