Song of Ice and Fire Book Thread (SPOILERS)

[Paelos]

I just want of her dragons to fry her and eat her.

That would work. Frankly, why the hell do we give a crap about these foreign lands? Nothing going on over there has meant anything to the story since we moved on from her Sun-and-Stars.

[Threash]

Well she wasn't going to conquer the world with a couple baby lizards, something had to happen for a few years.

[Sand]

Well she wasn't going to conquer the world with a couple baby lizards, something had to happen for a few years.

Except for training. Because you know who needs to train a future giant, flying, fire breathing lizard?
She reminds me of dog owners who never took their dogs to training, enforce no discipline and dont pick up their poop. It makes me burn with the rage of a thousand suns!


Yes its my nit to pick. 

[Teleku]

I just want of her dragons to fry her and eat her.

That would work. Frankly, why the hell do we give a crap about these foreign lands? Nothing going on over there has meant anything to the story since we moved on from her Sun-and-Stars.

Uhh

[Merusk]

Well she wasn't going to conquer the world with a couple baby lizards, something had to happen for a few years.

Except for training. Because you know who needs to train a future giant, flying, fire breathing lizard?

Nobody who's got a fancy McGuffin being delivered by a character with a doom clock ticking above his head.

"No man may blow it and live."  Gee, George, we couldn't figure THAT riddle out at all.

[Paelos]

I guess if you discount the large and powerful exile army from across the sea that just landed and is now sweeping across the south (and will likely team up with one of the most powerful kingdoms), posing the greatest threat to the throne yet in all the books.  Or the fact that Illyrio has been actively funding/supporting the Spiders actions in the west.   Or that Bravos looks to be interveining heavily in the west concerning who will take the throne, as well as funding the wall.

If your talking Dany specific, even when she left Drogo's horde, she has still remained that ever looming threat on the horizon against the west, due to her dragons (which are probably more important to taking the west than all the Dothraki in the Dortharki sea).  So yes, her actions are important to the plot in the west, even if she got bogged down the fuckstupid this book.

I'm talking about her specifically. Her POV sucks. She's looming? LOOMING? Fuck looming. That's something you do for a book as you settle some hash with your backstory. It's been 5 novels and she hasn't moved out of the East. First novel, she's set up as a threat, Second novel, she gathers momentum. Third novel, she gets an army. Ok, a normal person at this point would have her at least start to move on her ultimate goal of conquering the West. BUT NO! We get to watch her bitch and moan in a city (that nobody gives a shit about and that has no effect on anything else) so that we can piss away even more time and GRRM can watch the TV checks and extra sales rooooooooooooooooooll in.

[Ingmar]

Well, again, the original plan was for this book to not exist at all - there was just going to be a '5 years later...' jump, but he decided to do away with that and so he had to come up with what is essentially a bunch of filler for Dany so she ends up at the right point after all the time passes. And it really does largely feel like filler.

[Murgos]

It's kind of pointless to argue about Dany's continued presence in the story since she's in the title she's not going anywhere.  A Song of Fire and Ice.  Of course the title is meant on a couple of levels but still, she's one of them.

[Paelos]

You're right. She's not GOING ANYWHERE.

That's the problem. I don't mind her in the story if she gets off her ass, quits talking about wearing her stupid dresses and floppy ears, and starts fucking people up in Westeros.

[Azuredream]

That isn't limited to Dany, I think everything could do with at least a little bit of consolidation. There are too many separate pieces acting independently and not enough interaction between the various plots going on.

[Sand]

You're right. She's not GOING ANYWHERE.

That's the problem. I don't mind her in the story if she gets off her ass, quits talking about wearing her stupid dresses and floppy ears, and starts fucking people up in Westeros.

The "floppy ears" shit is only half as bad as that fucking line "I'm only a young girl, and don't know about...."
That she says every single time she does something. Once or twice is cute. Every time is GRATING.

[Cheddar]

You're right. She's not GOING ANYWHERE.

That's the problem. I don't mind her in the story if she gets off her ass, quits talking about wearing her stupid dresses and floppy ears, and starts fucking people up in Westeros.

The "floppy ears" shit is only half as bad as that fucking line "I'm only a young girl, and don't know about...."
That she says every single time she does something. Once or twice is cute. Every time is GRATING.

She doesn't know anything.  She led a sheltered life, was told she would totally roxxors, then was married to a guy who (at first) treated her like a whore.

I took the whole premise like she was trying to "do the right thing" and is now at the point where she will snap and fuck shit up.  As angry as it made me I am actually happy with this angle.

[Teleku]

I'm talking about her specifically. Her POV sucks. She's looming? LOOMING? Fuck looming. That's something you do for a book as you settle some hash with your backstory. It's been 5 novels and she hasn't moved out of the East. First novel, she's set up as a threat, Second novel, she gathers momentum. Third novel, she gets an army. Ok, a normal person at this point would have her at least start to move on her ultimate goal of conquering the West. BUT NO! We get to watch her bitch and moan in a city (that nobody gives a shit about and that has no effect on anything else) so that we can piss away even more time and GRRM can watch the TV checks and extra sales rooooooooooooooooooll in.

I was responded mainly to your "why do we even care, nothing she has done has mattered to the west since she left Drogo" point.  As you just pointed out above, books 2 and 3 did matter.  She was gaining momentum and building an army, and was looking to move on to the west.  I'm right along with you saying I hate how her story line went in the current book, but that's only the current book.  She's been one of my favorite characters to follow up to book 5, and I think has been very relevant to the story as a whole, until this point.

Also, I liked the "I'm only a young girl" lines.  She was sarcastically insulting them every time she said it.  She never actually meant it.  She always said it in response to somebody who was saying something dumb.  Basically saying, I'm a young girl none of you respect, but even I know your idea is stupid.  We're doing it my way instead, you fucking idiot.

[Tale]

'These Last Two Are Gonna Be Real Turds,' George R.R. Martin Assures Fans

[Rendakor]

Are you sure he didn't post that article before Book 4 came out? 

Oh Onion, never change.

[Evil Elvis]

Sample chapter for the next book looks pretty good.

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html

[Rendakor]

Very good find, thanks. And I don't mind reading it now, since I know by the time it comes out I'll have forgotten it all.

[NowhereMan]

So over Christmas/New Years I tore through all five books, which probably has left me with a better and more enthusiastic picture of the series than most of you guys who have been spending the last 8 or 9 years reading them. Oddly or not I'm finding myself generally agreeing with assessments of which characters are boring/filler and which are great reads. Daenarys has gotten a lot more interesting, perhaps differing from a few I found her sections picked up a lot after she decided to settle in Meereen. I know the point of the book is Westeros but I really can't find myself caring too much about the Taergaryen claim to the throne, her journey to reclaim it just isn't a story I care too much about (although I would have really loved to have read Tywin Lannister's reaction to fucking dragons appearing to destroy his carefully laid plans) but when she decided to settle to actually try and govern and change a whole people it felt like the character actually had plots and events going on that mattered, to them at least. The teenage girl aspect of it is a little annoying ("oh Daario, take me away and ravish me you daring sell-sword!" gets old pretty quick) but she's one of the few rulers we've seen so far who's first concern is actually their people for the sake of the people. Tyrion probably came closest just because he clearly recognised that fucking over the smallfolk was a bad idea, Robb felt the whole Stark duty as a Lord that left you in no doubt he'd not be a dick in any way but I never got the impression he really cared. He certainly cared more about securing the Riverlands than the welfare of the people living in them

Tyrion definitely became far, far less interesting when he left Westeros and decided to just be an utter, unrepentant bastard rather than his previous unhappy schemer. I don't know if the character is now being written with self-pity as his driving motivation and this just isn't enjoyable to read or if there's something else at stake but there's clearly a difference in how he acts (pointless cruelty as opposed to using his wit to stab at bullies). I would have loved to have seen him up against Grandma Tyrell a lot more. As far as the new direction goes, I hope to fuck he manages to ditch that dwarf girl in a convent somewhere, she's the polar opposite of Tywin Lannister in terms of being laughed at and neither are fucking reasonable positions (no-one can ever laugh at me because that's weakness vs. the only way to make people like is if they're laughing).

I'm not sure about Jon Snow, the whole dragging the Wildings off to Winterfell thing seemed so out of left-field for a character who has consistently resisted all efforts to get involved without all that much foreshadowing previously (in terms of the decision rather than the reaction, that was pretty well foreshadowed in him getting rid of all of his friends so he didn't mix with the men and keeping everyone he didn't like/trust to keep an eye on them). I'm guessing the result is going to be bloodshed, possibly halted by Lady Melisandre and the Queen's Men at the Nightfort followed by nothing of any note happening for a couple of books. My personal theory is that the Melisandre's spells working better at the Wall involve her leeching the power of the Wall itself and she continues to weaken it as she tries to fight off the Dark God. I imagine this will at some be followed by the revelation that the Dark God she's fighting isn't the power behind the Others and Bran flies out in the form of a winged Mammoth before being shot by a Dornish hunter in the pay of Varys.

I'm also waiting for something horrible to happen to Arya, largely along the lines of her killing off Ser Selmy or one of the other likeable characters to help Littlefinger in whatever game he's playing.

[ghost]

Reading this now.  Good god this is a steaming pile of contrived shit so far.  I'm only about 40% into it, so maybe it will improve.  I'm not optimistic.   

[RhyssaFireheart]

I recently went back to try rereading the books so that I could pick up the most recent one and I haven't been able to get into book 1 again at all.  I put it down to start reading something else, then another something else, and now it's just sitting on my side table.  I liked the book the first time I read it but I can't seem to get into it a second time around.

[Merusk]

I have the same problem with book 1;  I can't read the beginning anymore.  I start about the time they get to King's Landing and go from there.

Then again I don't read any of them in order anymore.  I just pick a random page, flip to the start of the chapter and read for a while.

[ghost]

Over halfway through now and not a goddamned thing has happened.  

Someone should remind Martin about how important it is to advance the story.  

Edit:  The Onion wins again, as usual. 

"For starters, there'll be no mention of the dragons at all, because I'm pretty much sick of writing about dragons at this point," said Martin

[Speedy Cerviche]

I have the same problem with book 1;  I can't read the beginning anymore.  I start about the time they get to King's Landing and go from there.

Then again I don't read any of them in order anymore.  I just pick a random page, flip to the start of the chapter and read for a while.

I read a lot of books like that, especially ones I've re-read a half a dozen times. My favourite is probably the rise and fall of the 3rd reich, I've basically turned it into a bathroom reader.

[Threash]

This books are made for rereads, there are tons of things that mean absolutely nothing at all the first time you read them but complete genius when you read them knowing what happens after.

e-fixed spoiler tags- WAP

[ghost]

So now I'm 85% into this and not a goddamned thing has happened.   

[Ingmar]

So now I'm 85% into this and not a goddamned thing has happened.   

Into which one?

[ghost]

Dance of Dragons.  Sorry, should have clarified.

It's been less of a dance and more of a slog.  I suppose every author needs their God Emperor.....

[Quinton]

After the last two books, I am convinced GRRM's original plan to do a five year fast-forward after setting everything up was the right call and scrapping it to continue the story in "real time" was a mistake.  Oops!  Too late for him to go back and fix it now.

[Thrawn]

So now I'm 85% into this and not a goddamned thing has happened.   

Into which one?

I assumed he meant the series as a whole. 

[Paelos]

After the last two books, I am convinced GRRM's original plan to do a five year fast-forward after setting everything up was the right call and scrapping it to continue the story in "real time" was a mistake.  Oops!  Too late for him to go back and fix it now.

But then, how else could he continually punish us with more Dany slogging? The fact that I expect her to win at the end makes it even more disgusting.

[Samwise]

After the last two books, I am convinced GRRM's original plan to do a five year fast-forward after setting everything up was the right call and scrapping it to continue the story in "real time" was a mistake.  Oops!  Too late for him to go back and fix it now.

But then, how else could he continually punish us with more Dany slogging? The fact that I expect her to win at the end makes it even more disgusting.

I expect her to get eaten by one of her dragons.

[ghost]

Honestly, the motherfucker
What the fuck?  I think he's had a few too many cheetos.

[Teleku]

[Ruvaldt]

[Threash]