DOTA2

[Hoax]

No Wisp is retardedly broken and everyone knows it, she has no hp and no actual damage and is still good because that's how powerful a tool relocate is. Then again so is Nature's Prophet, in fact most days I feel NP is worse. Globals are always exceptionally powerful. Normally you'd say that getting caught out by Puck and losing 2 rax threw away a sure win but against NP and Wisp they really needed a steamroll not a even towers slugfest in order to win it. I honestly think this was Navi's weakest TI team, Funn1k is an amazing player but he has not fully integrated into their lineups, his best games were when he was on very independent heros and his teamplay became less and less in sync as the pressure mounted.

As for the how can you beat that question re: range of engagement you need to understand that unlike LoL there is just that much more movement available in Dota. Being able to teleport in versus not is huge. TF and Skarner ganks are unstoppable in LoL because your team can't do anything about it if they are far away. In Dota a response can always come within seconds from anywhere on the map.

The most awesome destruction of Bat Rider I saw during TI3 was a team had I believe Bane and BM and basically Bat was too scared to ever blink in because if either was waiting in the back he was just going to die. They just counter engaged all game it was sweet.

[Fordel]

Is Funnik the one that can't speak Russian?

[Flinky]

As for the how can you beat that question re: range of engagement you need to understand that unlike LoL there is just that much more movement available in Dota. Being able to teleport in versus not is huge. TF and Skarner ganks are unstoppable in LoL because your team can't do anything about it if they are far away. In Dota a response can always come within seconds from anywhere on the map.

The most awesome destruction of Bat Rider I saw during TI3 was a team had I believe Bane and BM and basically Bat was too scared to ever blink in because if either was waiting in the back he was just going to die. They just counter engaged all game it was sweet.

Not just movement abilities either. There are far more long direct stuns available in DotA, like those on the BM and Bane you mentioned. TI3 games have seen Bat Rider lasso ganks shut down by quick thinking skill uses from common supports like Crystal Maiden, Rubik and Vengeful Spirit (who also has the Swap to use on the Rider or victim in a pinch). That said, the ability of the Rider to pick off an out of position player is almost unrivaled, hence the constant picks/bans.

That last game was amazing. I thought the last game of Na'Vi vs TongFu was good, but that game 5 was showcase DotA. Happy to see the finals live up to expectation.

[Megrim]

I only managed to watch the game with one eye, effectively, because I'm at work - but from what I saw game five was a very good example of clever strategy. Alliance knew that Na'Vi will outfight them in a straight-up brawl, so they took all the hits and counteracted through oblique pressure. Na'Vi for their part kept trying to go for the throat and trap Alliance in their base, and A (having failed early on to shut down Alchemist) kept feinting just enough to keep Na'Vi rolling, but didn't commit enough to feed NV any essential heroes (read: Furion). Another flaw in NV's strategy was the lack of any early pushing heroes. They only had Enigma, but they really needed just one other hero to keep the sustained pressure going.

In the end then, it came down to Na'Vi taking wild swings and trying to pin Alliance, who just kept ducking out of the way. The critical points I think were Na'Vi losing Rosh because someone on their team didn't count buybacks from Alliance, to the Furion was able to come back in for the steal, and (much more importantly) whoever their tactical caller was not telling everyone to bail asap when they saw the top and bot lanes being pushed down.

[Malakili]

In the end then, it came down to Na'Vi taking wild swings and trying to pin Alliance, who just kept ducking out of the way. The critical points I think were Na'Vi losing Rosh because someone on their team didn't count buybacks from Alliance, to the Furion was able to come back in for the steal, and (much more importantly) whoever their tactical caller was not telling everyone to bail asap when they saw the top and bot lanes being pushed down.

They did try to bail, the TPs got cancelled by puck.

[Thrawn]

I honestly think this was Navi's weakest TI team, Funn1k is an amazing player but he has not fully integrated into their lineups, his best games were when he was on very independent heros and his teamplay became less and less in sync as the pressure mounted.

This was very noticeable in the finals I think as he was just off his game sometimes.  He made multiple plays that had the people I was watching with just go "WTF was he even doing?" as he died.  Maybe he cracked a bit under the pressure, who knows.

[Fordel]

All you need to know about Ti3 : http://youtu.be/wkHVLeR72b4

[K9]

I think my ears are bleeding now.

[Ingmar]

BEAR BEAR BEAR BEAR BEAR BEAR

[Malakili]

BEAR BEAR BEAR BEAR BEAR BEAR

DENDIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

[Rasix]

CHOP IT CHOP IT CHOP IT

Korean casters make everything more exciting.  You should see when they cast a penta-kill in LoL.  

edit: removed non-culturally relevant reference.

[Quinton]

What are typical wait times on their install queue deal?  I thought "hm, might as well check this out" last night and for over 12 hours my place in the queue has remained #9891...

[Fordel]

No idea, but it's probably real bad right now thanks to Ti3.

[Bann]

It seems like their is an uptick of interest following TI3. I mostly think the game is way better played with people you know - even just internet know (The obvious caveat is sometimes people would rather not play with newer players even if you messageboard know them.) To facilitate f13 finding people to play with, I went ahead and created a guild called "f13 friendly people" with the tag "f13". If you are interested in an invite, please post indicating your interest and I'll add you.

Since I didnt know about guilds till I had like 800 games played, a guild is essentially just a default chat tab in client. You can see a list of all online guild members even if you are not friended with them. When you form a group, you can leave it open so that any guildie that wants to can join before you are put in a game. Flipside, you'll see a button when in client that says "open guild group looking for more. Join?"

[Quinton]

Yeah, based on my LoL experiences, I suspect I'd enjoy playing with people I know (and who maybe would provide more useful and/or friendly feedback while I'm learning), than a bunch of random folks online...

[Viin]

To facilitate f13 finding people to play with, I went ahead and created a guild called "f13 friendly people" with the tag "f13". If you are interested in an invite, please post indicating your interest and I'll add you.

I hope to be playing some, add me and I'll be noob fodder for anyone who wants to play against/with something other than AI. Viin is my handle on Steam.

[Megrim]

There are usually people on in one time-zone or another, so you will probably be able to get a game in most times. There's also a mix of skill levels, so remember that if you are a complete newb, ask questions - its the best way to learn.

[Thrawn]

I went ahead and created a guild called "f13 friendly people" with the tag "f13". If you are interested in an invite, please post indicating your interest and I'll add you.

Am I still "friendly people" if I tend to politely explain to someone why they are a terrible player that cost us the game and wasted 50 minutes of the rest of the teams lives instead of yelling at them? 

[Kail]

I went ahead and created a guild called "f13 friendly people" with the tag "f13". If you are interested in an invite, please post indicating your interest and I'll add you.

Am I still "friendly people" if I tend to politely explain to someone why they are a terrible player that cost us the game and wasted 50 minutes of the rest of the teams lives instead of yelling at them? 

In general, I find it best not to give people advice of any kind unless they ask for it.  There's a super fine line between "polite explanation" and "patronizing asshole" which is really hard to nail reliably.  Especially if someone's already getting frustrated, you're mostly just going to piss them off.

[Fordel]

I went ahead and created a guild called "f13 friendly people" with the tag "f13". If you are interested in an invite, please post indicating your interest and I'll add you.

Am I still "friendly people" if I tend to politely explain to someone why they are a terrible player that cost us the game and wasted 50 minutes of the rest of the teams lives instead of yelling at them? 

Nope, makes you an asshole still. 

[Bann]

Sent a bunch of invites, gave people who accepted the ability to invite others. please poke me on steam if you want an invite - my handle is the same as here.

I went ahead and created a guild called "f13 friendly people" with the tag "f13". If you are interested in an invite, please post indicating your interest and I'll add you.

Am I still "friendly people" if I tend to politely explain to someone why they are a terrible player that cost us the game and wasted 50 minutes of the rest of the teams lives instead of yelling at them? 

the more the merrier!

[Ingmar]

I'd be interested in trying this but I have serious holding the team back self-esteem issues in this game, so better not put me on a team with Thrawn. 

[Fordel]

Stop feeding noob.

[Viin]

So this game has a few twists, but why shouldn't I just go back to LoL? (Where I already know most of the heroes and items. Ohh and the Riot Points credit card)

[Fordel]

You'll never need Valve Points to play a hero. 

[Rasix]

A less obnoxious meta helps.  I'm probably going to get back into this and give it another shot. The new tutorial is kinda neat.

[Hoax]

So this game has a few twists, but why shouldn't I just go back to LoL? (Where I already know most of the heroes and items. Ohh and the Riot Points credit card)

You should because its a better game and a deeper game but I'll give you some simple bullets as if this was a legit question.

-More "endgame variety": LoL games are vastly more predictable affairs. This means comebacks in Dota are more common and can come in many more ways. There are more chances to make plays despite gold or xp disadvantage and more avenues to make said plays. Buybacks, boots of travel and other stuff means that even a late late game has more twists and turns.

-Better balancing philosophy: Dota moves at a glacier pace in terms of balance adjustments and overall tends to be much less kneejerk in its buffs and nerfs. The fact that the game has a ten year history of changes to draw on probably helps.

-More fluidity: This could be under part one but it deserves its own section. There is no holy lineup in Dota. What kind of hero lanes where when and who gets the most farm can change and this also means a bad teammate can be compensated for much more than in LoL.

[Kail]

So this game has a few twists, but why shouldn't I just go back to LoL? (Where I already know most of the heroes and items. Ohh and the Riot Points credit card)

They're both free, I'd just play whichever one you feel like at the moment.  It's not like you need to marry one of them or something.

[Fordel]

NO YOU MUST CHOOSE AND SPEAK THE BLOOD OATH!

[Viin]

You should because its a better game and a deeper game but I'll give you some simple bullets as if this was a legit question.

It was a serious question, thanks for your insight.

[schild]

DOTA2 embraced a design flaw of the previous engine as a design choice in the new iteration, simply by that measure, one can't say it is better than LoL in any capacity because it was flawed from the word go.

[Trippy]

It embraced bugs from the original beyond denial like creep stacking.

[ezrast]

The WC3 scripting engine is pretty damn flexible, and I can't imagine who would have more experience with scripting it than the DotA team. If they didn't want denial and creep stacking it would not have been a big deal to remove them.

[Sophismata]

Denial and creep sacking were embraced long ago as elements of the game. Orb effects annoy me because the War3 engine has the ability to handle independent on-attack effects with some scripting. Lack of mana bars annoys me a lot more and it is the primary reason I don't play DOTA2, since that's a deliberate decision to handicap the UI without a legitimate reason beyond "it was like that in DOTA".

[K9]

Lack of mana bars?