Syfy + Trion = Defiance MMO Action Shooter (PC 360 PS3)

[Ghambit]

Here's the schedule for the final beta, which will be NDA free:

Advance Mission BETA 3 Dates:
PlayStation 3 North America: March 19th 8:00am PDT – March 25th 9:00pm PDT
PlayStation 3 Europe: March 20th 8:00am PDT – March 26th 9:00pm PDT
PC Global: March 22nd 9:00am PDT – March 24th 9:00pm PDT
Xbox 360 Global: March 25th 8:00am PDT – March 26th 9:00pm PDT

[schpain]

Here's the schedule for the final beta, which will be NDA free:

Advance Mission BETA 3 Dates:
PlayStation 3 North America: March 19th 8:00am PDT – March 25th 9:00pm PDT
PlayStation 3 Europe: March 20th 8:00am PDT – March 26th 9:00pm PDT
PC Global: March 22nd 9:00am PDT – March 24th 9:00pm PDT
Xbox 360 Global: March 25th 8:00am PDT – March 26th 9:00pm PDT

Final Beta = Open Beta?  Sorry I'm not up with today's Gaming jive talk.

[Rendakor]

A 2 day window for PC, and again on a weekend. So much for that.

[luckton]

It's not an open beta.  You need a key, mang.

Aside from that, after trying to bone up on info for this game, I can understand the angst against it a little more.  There's just not that much info about the nitty-gritty stuff.  Character development looks kinda shallow, and aside from the dynamic events and stuff, is there still some kind of a PvE progression like a classic DIKU, or is it more instant-action go-where-ever-you want stuff?

[Falconeer]

It's definitely a DIKU. It's 100% EQ-WoW-DIKU (so quest hubs, dungeons, instances, wide open zones, loot, everything) but with free third-person-shooter aiming and basically no melee.

[luckton]

It's definitely a DIKU. It's 100% EQ-WoW-DIKU (so quest hubs, dungeons, instances, wide open zones, loot, everything) but with free third-person-shooter aiming and basically no melee.

Tank/DPS/Healer setup or something different there too?  Doesn't seem to be any 'classes' per se, rather the TSW approach of "you can be anything, eventually"

[Falconeer]

Ha. You got me there. You are right. No classes.

[SnakeCharmer]

Is the FPS mechanic solid, at least?  I suck at FPS really really badly, but this at least looks somewhat fun.

[Falconeer]

Sadly, anything else gets too deep into NDS territory. All I can say is that it's no as surgical as Counterstrike, but hitting different body parts does different things, so it seems solid enough to be while still playable by non-pro players.

[Draegan]

This is not a DIKU. Here's what is public knowledge:

It's a close-up third person view, shooter, where you character selects abilities or augments off a grid.  There is a lot of gear in the game and different guns, including healing guns like Team Fortress. You do random "Rift" like encounters, there are vehicles that you can ride around in, and there is a story line associated with it.

There are also "dungeons" too.

Think third person borderlands with some random events thrown in.

[Falconeer]

Without trying to be cool, and assuming I actually am aging badly and forgetting stuff, what is a DIKU to you?

And what of the sentence:

It's definitely a DIKU (...)  but with free third-person-shooter aiming and basically no melee.

is not right to you?

[Ghambit]

It's definitely a DIKU. It's 100% EQ-WoW-DIKU (so quest hubs, dungeons, instances, wide open zones, loot, everything) but with free third-person-shooter aiming and basically no melee.

Eh???  There's plenty of melee.  Matter of fact you can build your character entirely around it ("ninja", "tanky-brawler", whatever.)    Fucking  
As for luckton's question, being the Rift engine of course there's instant action and 'go where you want' stuff.  Borderlands was a nice analogy.

The game is not DIKU, because its engine is not turn-based per se.  To be DIKU you've got to have a common gameclock that's pretty long.  Games like TR and moreso Defiance have near instant response aside from tic damage and dont have shared timings between players. e.g. if your ping sucks, YOU suck.  So no, it's not DIKU.

It has many DIKU elements, but that doesn't make it so.  Matter of fact, if you wanted to you could play the game entirely TF2 style and never touch diku.

[Falconeer]

Fair enough. It's not a DIKU. To some (me), it feels like it is due to the prominence of some elements common to DIKUs, but it's not a DIKU.

[Ghambit]

Well, how it feels is all that really matters in the long run... so yah, maybe it is DIKU.   

[Hoax]

Those last eight posts make me like this game so much less. Its just so incredibly asinine we aren't allowed to actually talk about this title yet.

[Signe]

I'm so confused.  I need a nap.

[Lantyssa]

The game is not DIKU, because its engine is not turn-based per se.  To be DIKU you've got to have a common gameclock that's pretty long.  Games like TR and moreso Defiance have near instant response aside from tic damage and dont have shared timings between players. e.g. if your ping sucks, YOU suck.  So no, it's not DIKU.

No one here uses DIKU to mean a stepped combat system.  It's about the endless questing, grinding, and use of the Holy Trinity.  It's designing a game like it's a DIKU MUD as opposed to something with more imagination.

[Ghambit]

The game is not DIKU, because its engine is not turn-based per se.  To be DIKU you've got to have a common gameclock that's pretty long.  Games like TR and moreso Defiance have near instant response aside from tic damage and dont have shared timings between players. e.g. if your ping sucks, YOU suck.  So no, it's not DIKU.

No one here uses DIKU to mean a stepped combat system.  It's about the endless questing, grinding, and use of the Holy Trinity.  It's designing a game like it's a DIKU MUD as opposed to something with more imagination.

nvm.  This merry-go-round goes round.

[Riggswolfe]

Damn 

I really want to weigh in on this "Diku or not" conversation but can't figure out how to do it without breaking the (silly at this point) NDA.

[Ghambit]

Simple.  DIKU refers to Diku MUD.  All diku muds were/are stepped-combat.  If your game is not stepped-combat, it's not diku.  Otherwise damn near 75% of games (even games like WW2O, certain BF mods, ARMA, etc.) would fall under Lant's definition. 

Subjective things like quests, "teh grind," and zomg classes arent enough to make me label something as a DIKU. 

[Lantyssa]

I know what a DIKU MUD is.  I was a player and coder on one for a decade.

Calling a game a DIKU is a pejorative about its design philosophy, not a description of its mechanics.  I didn't coin it.  I'm just explaining how it's used here.

[Falconeer]

I have one for you all: is Tera a DIKU?

[Spiff]

Apparently the NDA is finally getting lifted on the 22nd for the upcoming beta (not sure if it's been mentioned yet), so I'm expecting F13 to pick apart this corpse like the ravenous vultures you are.

[Riggswolfe]

Apparently the NDA is finally getting lifted on the 22nd for the upcoming beta (not sure if it's been mentioned yet), so I'm expecting F13 to pick apart this corpse like the ravenous vultures you are.

Is the NDA also lifted for the 'Alpha' or just these Beta weekends?

[Riggswolfe]

I went ahead and pre-ordered today. Not that my tastes align very well with F13s but I thought I'd mention it. I have a sneaky suspicion this game is going to be very small simply because pre-orders don't seem to be very big at any major retailers. I suspect there's just not enough information out there and not enough people know about the game.

[UnSub]

Hmm, wonder if SyFy told Trion that they'd look after promotion, but don't have the knowledge / skills / connections to deliver it for video games.

[Ghambit]

It's not anywhere near the top of the Gamestop list with basically 2 weeks to go, so someone's doing something wrong.  I've talked to a few consoleers and they dont even know wtf Defiance is.  Seeing as how it's one of only a few console MMOs, that's pretty disheartening.

SyFy has a few spots, but who the hell watches SyFy anymore?  So that's fail too.  The show releases 2 weeks after the game, so no real marketing there for the initial push either.

[Pennilenko]

I wouldn't pre-order this even if it was free...

[Kageru]

I like these games.. I just need to check if there are Australian servers (there very rarely are, for quite defendable reasons) and use that as my decision on whether I need to care.

[Stormwaltz]

I didn't even know there was a console version, but that could just be me - I don't pay close attention to consoles.

The meter on the Steam preorder page is still short of 30% to the first bonus unlock with two weeks to go. Something went wrong somewhere - whether in marketing or sales projections, I'm not qualified to judge. It's got to be depressing for the team to see, regardless.

[UnSub]

I like these games.. I just need to check if there are Australian servers (there very rarely are, for quite defendable reasons) and use that as my decision on whether I need to care.

The other issue is that you can look forward to seeing the series screened on free-to-air TV sometime in 2014. Perhaps.

But yeah, they've got two weeks to create a marketing push and sell a MMO to the masses; I don't think that's enough time. Plus the people who could be hyping the game - the beta testers - are still under NDA.

[HaemishM]

Plus the people who could be hyping the game - the beta testers - are still under NDA.

And that more than anything is the real killer on preorders. You cannot let an online game go out without sufficient word of mouth build up unless it's from an established IP. New IP? Hell no. TV ads won't do it because MMOG customers are either watching their TV online or time-shifted with their DVR's, in which case they likely aren't watching the ads much. Serious marketing fail. Hell, I knew there was a game called Defiance coming out  from Trion based on a SyFy show, yet when the pre-order popped up on Steam, I had to go to the store page to even know WTF it was.

[Falconeer]

Game is widely unknown.
Game is based on an unknown intellectual property.
Game is tied to an unknown, unreleased TV show.
Game is still in closed beta, so no one can try it.
Game is still under NDA, so no one can talk about it.
Game is fucking 50$/€ upfront.

This is not my job, but I'd really really like to have a word with whoever is in charge of marketing and business here. I mean, if I were Trion CEO and wanted to tank a game just for giggles, the above steps are exactly the ones I'd follow.

Quoting myself only to state once again how much I can't wrap my head around the disaster they have been cooking up.
Seriously, if a competitor had paid an agent to go undercover as marketing lead in the other company and kill their upcoming MMO, s/he couldn't have done a better job. This is a flawless KO.

[Malakili]

It is also remarkable given the legitimately good job they did marketing Rift.  That game had great marketing, a solid open beta, a good launch, etc.  It's like they brought in the B team for this one. (or C team, or D team).

[luckton]

Didn't Trion loose their AAA producer or something a few months ago?