NFL 2011

[Nebu]

I'd take Stafford (on potential), Schaub (physical gifts), and Roethlessberger (drive) over Eli.  Eli is a solid QB.  I just don't think he's an elite QB.

[HaemishM]

Here's what seems to get glossed over about that 4th quarter. Other than that awesome throw to take the lead, there were still over 8 minutes left on the clock. What happened then? Eli passes 3 times, has to punt. Gets the ball again, sacked, 2 passes, has to punt. Gets the ball AGAIN. He still can't get them in FG range and has to punt. I mean at what point do you say to yourself, man I wish it was Aaron Rodgers with the ball because it's not going to OT.

I'm not sure Rodgers would have done any better. The 49ers defense is THAT DAMN GOOD. They were also at the top of the league in takeaways, yet Manning threw no picks. He wasn't particularly effective in the 4th quarter, but did you see the man's jersey? He was getting pummeled all game. He got sacked 6 times and hit 12 times - that's 18 QB hits in a game... and yet he didn't turn the ball over. And threw 2 TD's. He wasn't the reason they won (you are right it was defense and special teams) but those 2 TD's meant something. And 9 TD's to 1 INT in the playoffs? The three defenses he played against in the playoffs were the Falcons (#10 in INT's), the Packers (#1 in INT's) and the 49ers (tied for #2 in INT's). He has been better than good in the playoffs. The only game he didn't have over a 100 quarterback rating was against the #4 defense in the NFL, the 49ers.

Maybe that ain't Hall of Fame, but it's better than good.

[01101010]

Regardless of stats and numbers and stuff... there is just something about Eli I just can't get all warrior'd up with on game day. He just seems much more baseball than football for whatever reason.

[Johny Cee]

no Eli isn't a top 2/3 QB....

But he probably is a top 4-6 QB.  Seriously, in this list of top performers I can't think of anyone other than Brees, Rodgers and Brady that I'd take ahead of him. 

I have him at #5, assuming Big Bro recovers...  and a big gap between the top 4 and him.

I'd take Stafford (on potential), Schaub (physical gifts), and Roethlessberger (drive) over Eli.  Eli is a solid QB.  I just don't think he's an elite QB.

Essentially, you are flat out gambling with two of those picks and not even getting good odds.  You should take an established top 10 QB (to be conservative) over a prospect every day of the week.

I would not take Ben over Eli, though I thought about it for a while.  Ben is a solid QB, but he's played most of his career with a great defense.  I would take Eli over Ben solely because, all else being equal, Eli has proven to be a great clutch/fourth quarter QB.  

[Nebu]

You should take an established top 10 QB (to be conservative) over a prospect every day of the week.

I should, but having played the game at a high level I'd much prefer someone with a huge upside over someone that has peaked.  Particularly if that someone is at a skill/leadership position.

[ghost]

I'd take Stafford (on potential), Schaub (physical gifts), and Roethlessberger (drive) over Eli.  Eli is a solid QB.  I just don't think he's an elite QB.

Yet Roethlisberger is the only one that has done shit so far.  Stafford's got a trick shoulder, too, so I think you have to take that into consideration.  And no way I'm taking Schaub with the injury issue.  

[Nebu]

Good point on the injury angle.  I hadn't considered that in my equation.

[HaemishM]

Stafford survived a 16-game season this year with an extra playoff game. So there's that. Oh and he had almost no running game to speak of.

[Ingmar]

FWIW Eli got away with 2 interceptions that the 49ers managed to mess up by crashing into each other.

[Fordel]

FWIW Eli got away with 2 interceptions that the 49ers managed to mess up by crashing into each other.

Got away with, or PLANNED? 

[Rasix]

FWIW Eli got away with 2 interceptions that the 49ers managed to mess up by crashing into each other.

A defensive back is just a wide receiver that can't catch.

[ghost]

Stafford is an interesting case.  He's obviously got the potential to be really, really good.  I'm always a little skittish of these guys once they get injured though, because things never really seem to heal back to 100%.  And he plays for the Lions, who could fuck up a wet dream.    I do think that if you had the chance to trade Manning for Stafford that you should do it, but it won't come up because the Lions aren't nuts.  The potential is all there.  I do think that Manning is grossly underrated.  Hell, he should go down as an all time great if he beats the Pats a second time.  There aren't a whole lot of QBs with multiple superbowl wins.  He's at least as good as Jim Plunkett.  

[01101010]

FWIW Eli got away with 2 interceptions that the 49ers managed to mess up by crashing into each other.

A defensive back is just a wide receiver that can't catch. 

Fix't!

[Rasix]

That was implied. 

[Nebu]

A defensive back is just a wide receiver that can't catch.

I know that you're joking, but we defensive backs saw it this way: A defensive back has the brains to know what to do while a WR has to be told.

[Tannhauser]

I was an offensive lineman.  Hurr durr, hit the guy what is in front of me. 

[Paelos]

Nobody here is going to hear me say Eli's not a top 10 QB. He's good. He's not great. He's Matt Ryan with a better deep ball. Matty Ice is also a top 10 QB with I think better overall mechanics, but he wilts when the pressure comes so he's a failure.

I think my main problem with Eli is he's so inconsistent, and then in the playoffs the team dynamic shifts and he shifts along with it. I mean this is a guy who played absolutely abymsally against a very bad Washington team twice in the regular season, but goes for 350+ on the Cowboys when it mattered. He can throw 3 picks in Seattle and lose, or throw 4 TDs in Philly and win.

There's something about him that just frustrates the hell out of people because you want to put him in elite QB status with his wins, but you can't bring yourself to do it. I think it's his stupid face.

[Johny Cee]

Nobody here is going to hear me say Eli's not a top 10 QB. He's good. He's not great. He's Matt Ryan with a better deep ball. Matty Ice is also a top 10 QB with I think better overall mechanics, but he wilts when the pressure comes so he's a failure.

I think my main problem with Eli is he's so inconsistent, and then in the playoffs the team dynamic shifts and he shifts along with it. I mean this is a guy who played absolutely abymsally against a very bad Washington team twice in the regular season, but goes for 350+ on the Cowboys when it mattered. He can throw 3 picks in Seattle and lose, or throw 4 TDs in Philly and win.

There's something about him that just frustrates the hell out of people because you want to put him in elite QB status with his wins, but you can't bring yourself to do it. I think it's his stupid face.

Now that is a well reasoned and hard to argue against post.  To return the favor, I think Romo has huge potential but I just don't see enough Cowboys games to know what's going wrong there....  if it's locker room, players, or management, he should be winning many more games than he is.


I don't think Eli was the inconsistent part of the Giants this year... I think it was the rest of the team.  The running game could be adequate or awful, the blocking is the same, and the defense was so injured they were misfiring most of the year.  That left Eli to carry the load, which is why the Giants had so many 4th Quarter nailbiters.  Also, if you swapped the Giants schedule with a couple of other teams, they wouldn't have been a 9-7 team.  The Redskins loss was inexcusable, but the weaker (record wise) teams they played were the Eagles and the Cowboys... on paper, they were supposed to be pretty good units this year.

Eli doesn't help his cause because he's a complete fucking cipher.  You don't know if he's excited, hurt, scared, tired or whatever... he just looks like you should keep him away from your pet rabbits.

[Sjofn]

Regardless of stats and numbers and stuff... there is just something about Eli I just can't get all warrior'd up with on game day. He just seems much more baseball than football for whatever reason.

It's partly because Eli himself doesn't really "warrior up." Eli is just Eli. He can be fantastic, he can have the worst game ever, at his core, he's always just ... Eli. It's actually something I like about him, he'll have a shittastic game and he doesn't let it bother him, and he never gets so amped up that he fucks up due to OMG U GUIZ I'M IN TEH SUPERBOWL or whatever. But it makes it hard to get excited about him, too.

[Ingmar]

He's like the only guy on the team that wasn't hurt at some point this year. That's really the only reason the Giants didn't have a better record, too many injuries.

[Johny Cee]

He's like the only guy on the team that wasn't hurt at some point this year. That's really the only reason the Giants didn't have a better record, too many injuries.

Hmm.  Ingmar defending Eli after the Niners lost?  You lost a bet with Sjofn on the game, and now have to defend Eli the next year, don't you?

[ghost]

but goes for 350+ on the Cowboys when it mattered

And now we get to the meat of Paelos's issue....

[Paelos]

but goes for 350+ on the Cowboys when it mattered

And now we get to the meat of Paelos's issue....

He plays for the Giants. I hate the Giants. That doesn't mean I don't respect what they do.

Victor Cruz has been a breakout star for them, and JPP is probably the most dynamic pass-rusher I've seen all season. I just can't get behind Eli for the reasons I stated. He's just so meh.

[Fordel]

Why hate on the Giants? There seem to be so many more worthy hate targets in the NFL.

[Ingmar]

Like the Cowboys. 

[Sjofn]

Why hate on the Giants? There seem to be so many more worthy hate targets in the NFL.

He hates the Giants because they're in the same division, and lately the Giants have had a pretty good streak of making Cowboys fans miserable one way or another. 

[ghost]

You know, Romo versus Eli is actually a decent comparison.  They are both wildly inconsistent, moving from high highs to the lowest of lows, yet one has a superbowl ring and has gone to two superbowls yet one has dated Jessica Simpson and a slew of other hot chicks.  It's a trade off, I suppose.   

[Paelos]

Why hate on the Giants? There seem to be so many more worthy hate targets in the NFL.

He hates the Giants because they're in the same division, and lately the Giants have had a pretty good streak of making Cowboys fans miserable one way or another. 

Couple that with the fact our QB is a mental midget and our Owner likes to play armchair GM, and my team belongs on the Biggest Loser rather than a football field.

[Nebu]

Couple that with the fact our QB is a mental midget and our Owner likes to play armchair GM, and my team belongs on the Biggest Loser rather than a football field.

At least you get to watch the fail on the biggest TV in the world.  That has value.

[Paelos]

Dallas teams in general seem to be about coddling the fans more than winning. The Mavericks are the only ones who didn't trip on their dicks.

[Fordel]

Meh, you sound spoiled, it wasn't THAT long ago that Dallas was winning like every other Superbowl it felt like.


Come back to me when you have a 40 year dry spell 

[Nebu]

Come back to me when you have a 40 year dry spell 

I'm a Vikings fan.  Don't even mention the Super Bowl, please.

[ghost]

Who are the Vikings?

[Paelos]

Who are the Vikings?

They run a party boat franchise.

[HaemishM]

They're that new Los Angeles expansion team.