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Sky
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Reply #420 on: August 23, 2016, 06:57:52 AM

I sat in a Subaru but it felt super cheap inside & I didn't like the fit of the seat or steering wheel.
I felt the same way. Did you drive it? I forgot all that stuff after the test drive (Crosstrek).

You guys should check out the Scion iM, which is pretty much the spiritual successor to the Matrix.
From her: "no AWD avail., no heated seats, and fewer safety features than I can get on the Mazdas or Subaru." Also none in stock at any dealers in reasonable driving distance (<2hrs).

The heated seats makes me chuckle, but she's on about it, so it's a thing. And that's also part of seating position; in the Matrix she has a cushion that raises her up several inches. She wouldn't be able to use that in a car with a heated seat (defeating the purpose), so she wants a seating position like the Matrix+cushion. So far that's the Crosstrek, and given the vehicles we're looking at, it will be the only one without getting into larger SUVs, which she does not want.
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Reply #421 on: August 23, 2016, 07:08:11 AM

That's exactly what my dad said. I miss the days of bigger cars that made getting in & out easier!

They just sat differently is all. It's weird, you don't notice it until you go from an older car (90s or earlier) to a newer one. All the safety innovations mean you sit lower and tilt back more than the old bench/ bucket seats. Car's the same height, you're sitting at about the same place but it's just more inconvenient to get in and out of.

They still make those "larger" cars though. They just happen to be labeled "old people" cars now. The Avalon, Impala, Chrysler 300, Buicks and Caddys are still out there for ya. I almost did the Avalon, but couldn't convince myself that the additional $12k for the same features as my Camry was worth it.

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Reply #422 on: August 23, 2016, 07:42:40 AM

I have don't know much about the reliability, but the new Buick Regal GS is a pretty car. Shame it doesn't come in a manual transmission.

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Reply #423 on: August 23, 2016, 07:56:35 AM

I sat in a Subaru but it felt super cheap inside & I didn't like the fit of the seat or steering wheel.
I felt the same way. Did you drive it? I forgot all that stuff after the test drive (Crosstrek).


Our last rental was Crosstrek. Really solid car.  I don't think I've ever enjoyed a rental car as much as that one. There were times I would have liked a more powerful engine though.  However, it handled the Oregon coast alright.

Starting to look at my next car as well.  My 05 Acura TSX is starting to get old. I'd like something similar. Sporty (>= 200hp), 4 door, and under 40k (hopefully).

-Rasix
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Reply #424 on: August 23, 2016, 08:30:33 AM

I keep seeing references to sporty being in the 200-300 hp range.  Not sure me likey.

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Sky
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Reply #425 on: August 23, 2016, 08:36:01 AM

All the safety innovations mean you sit lower and tilt back more than the old bench/ bucket seats.
One thing she hated about the Mazdas was the non-adjustable (forward/backward) headrest. She sits very straight and hates seats that make you lean back. She won't sit in adirondack chairs, had to buy her a new chair for my backyard with a vertical sitting position. The CX-3 in particular that was a deal-breaker, it was pushing her head forward.
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Reply #426 on: August 23, 2016, 08:47:36 AM

Heh.  Women.

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Reply #427 on: August 23, 2016, 09:06:44 AM

Heh.  Women.
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Reply #428 on: August 23, 2016, 09:14:44 AM

I can't think of the last car I was in that had forward/ backward adjustable headrests. Even Up/ Down seems to be a rare thing these days.

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Reply #429 on: August 23, 2016, 09:18:32 AM

I think the thing to do is get some sort of old-lady pillow.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Sky
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Reply #430 on: August 23, 2016, 09:21:57 AM

I think the thing to do is get some sort of old-lady pillow.
Heated seats.  DRILLING AND WOMANLINESS Ohhhhh, I see. ACK!

I've learned it's impossible to make it all cohesively sensible and just go along for the ride.

Sales guy said the Crosstrek's was adjustable but I forgot to check after the test drive. You have to remove them first, iirc.
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Reply #431 on: August 23, 2016, 10:06:24 AM

I keep seeing references to sporty being in the 200-300 hp range.  Not sure me likey.
Depends on weight and gearing. But your G37 has a beast of an engine (~330 HP) so there aren't many cars that will match its straight line performance (0-60 ~5.0 secs) that aren't more expensive.

For me personally that engine was actually more power than I was looking for at the time (I have the same 2011 model as yours) but the G25 was inexplicably missing some options I wanted so I splurged and got the G37 instead. Here in Northern California it very much helps to have a certain amount of acceleration to deal with the many short freeway on-ramps and all the assholes who drive too slow in the fast lane on 280 awesome, for real Something around 6.0 - 6.5 secs 0-60 would be plenty for me, though (my BMW was about 7.0 secs which was borderline).

My next car will almost certainly be something that gets better gas mileage or equivalent. I don't drive much anymore but it still would be nice to cut down on fossil fuel consumption. Something like the new BMW 330e plug-in hybrid would be near perfect for me on paper (haven't test driven one yet) as it has a long enough battery-only range to get to and from the train station with minimal gas usage* and has good performance with both motors running (0-60 ~6.0 secs). Unfortunately these BMWs have the crappy electric steering I mentioned earlier in the other thread so I would lose the steering feel that I've gotten used to over the last 16 years (my BMW and then my Infiniti).

* Even though my drive to and from the train station is about 11 miles which is less than the ~17 mile battery-only range it's mostly on an expressway where people drive up to 60 miles per hour so it would be hard to accelerate to those sorts of speeds purely on electric power in a reasonable amount of time so I would likely be using some gas.
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Reply #432 on: August 23, 2016, 10:36:06 AM

Two big thumbs-up for Hybrids. I'm averaging 42MPG on the trip to and from the office and between 36 and 39 if highway is involved. (Just broke 50 after lunch but I was in a school zone so >20mph)

This means I fill up once every two and a half weeks unless I'm driving out of town for an event. It's glorious.

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Reply #433 on: August 23, 2016, 11:39:39 AM

Observations:
1. N Cali drivers seem much like ATL drivers.  I see their plates on the highway and they generally don't get in my way.
2. Any issue I might have had with the "excessive" power of the G37 was eliminated by installing a set of Eagle GT tires.
3. I think 20.4 MPG is a very reasonable number. why so serious?

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Sky
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Reply #434 on: August 23, 2016, 12:15:45 PM

This means I fill up once every two and a half weeks unless I'm driving out of town for an event. It's glorious.
That's about how much I fill up the FJ, often three to three and a half weeks. So infrequently she has to remind me to fill up before we go out of town because I never think about filling up my truck.

If I got a Prius I'd put gas in it every three months.

edit: Trippy, get a Tesla if you're worried about electric acceleration.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS
« Last Edit: August 23, 2016, 12:18:07 PM by Sky »
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Reply #435 on: August 23, 2016, 12:24:38 PM

Two big thumbs-up for Hybrids. I'm averaging 42MPG on the trip to and from the office and between 36 and 39 if highway is involved. (Just broke 50 after lunch but I was in a school zone so >20mph)

This means I fill up once every two and a half weeks unless I'm driving out of town for an event. It's glorious.

I'm seriously considering a hybrid for when I eventually replace my 2004 Santa Fe.  I love my AWD though, especially here in Northern Illinois.  But my commute is about 33 miles one way, so right now I'm filling up weekly and that's if the damn thing feels like getting 20mpg.

What annoys me the most with my car research is how crappy gas mileage still is.  I mean, when I bought my Santa Fe in late 2003, it was rated at 18-22mpg (I think), so getting about 20 is fine.  And yeah, I get that AWDs have suckier gas mileage, but you'd think that in the past 10+ yeas, something would have improved?  Nope!  The current Santa Fe is still rated almost exactly the same mileage, which is probably the biggest factor in not wanting to get another one.  The Tuscon isn't much better.  I'm thinking about a Rav4 hybrid since I want to go smaller but having that AWD is too great a draw for living in this area.  I'd love a Prius for the mileage alone though but I'm not sure how they handle in the snow. 

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Reply #436 on: August 23, 2016, 12:41:51 PM

3. I think 20.4 MPG is a very reasonable number. why so serious?

I get about 24mpg in my Audi A6 with 3.0L supercharged engine. It's a lot of fun to drive and you can pick up a good factory certified used one for less than 40k.

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Reply #437 on: August 23, 2016, 12:57:34 PM

What annoys me the most with my car research is how crappy gas mileage still is.  I mean, when I bought my Santa Fe in late 2003, it was rated at 18-22mpg (I think), so getting about 20 is fine.  And yeah, I get that AWDs have suckier gas mileage, but you'd think that in the past 10+ yeas, something would have improved?  Nope!  The current Santa Fe is still rated almost exactly the same mileage, which is probably the biggest factor in not wanting to get another one.  The Tuscon isn't much better.  I'm thinking about a Rav4 hybrid since I want to go smaller but having that AWD is too great a draw for living in this area.  I'd love a Prius for the mileage alone though but I'm not sure how they handle in the snow. 

Light trucks have a different CAFE standard and it's only just above the 1990's standard for automobiles at 28.8 when it was 23.5 before. Cars must hit 37.8 as an average for the fleet now, up from 27.5. So all the fuel economy increases are focused in cars with little in light trucks/ SUVs.

Prius' are FWD like most cars. FWD handles great in the snow in my experience. AWD never helped me out much there, though. I learned to drive in 1986 and 1969 Firebirds and a 1988 Chevy Malibu Wagon in Cleveland winters so my perception is ever so slightly skewed.

Google tells me they handle great, though. Seems that the combination of FWD and all the weight from the hybrid system being in the front means it sticks to the road well.
http://community.cartalk.com/t/prius-driving-performance-in-winter-weather/30058

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Reply #438 on: August 23, 2016, 01:24:43 PM

3. I think 20.4 MPG is a very reasonable number. why so serious?

I get about 24mpg in my Audi A6 with 3.0L supercharged engine. It's a lot of fun to drive and you can pick up a good factory certified used one for less than 40k.

I've heard bad things about Audi quality.  Also, you can't find anyone certified to work on them here, for some reason.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Sky
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Reply #439 on: August 23, 2016, 01:31:37 PM

Prius' are FWD like most cars. FWD handles great in the snow in my experience. AWD never helped me out much there, though. I learned to drive in 1986 and 1969 Firebirds and a 1988 Chevy Malibu Wagon in Cleveland winters so my perception is ever so slightly skewed.

Google tells me they handle great, though. Seems that the combination of FWD and all the weight from the hybrid system being in the front means it sticks to the road well.
http://community.cartalk.com/t/prius-driving-performance-in-winter-weather/30058

I'm trying to temper her push for AWD with that kind of info. I drove a VW Rabbit loooong ago and it was a trooper in the snow. Inherited it from my dad who put over 200k on it commuting to Oswego through that snow belt I mentioned in the other thread. More fun to drive if you know the tricks, too (handbrake turns, j turns, etc). I learned stick in one and still my favorite car to drive, but that's also rose-colored glasses. Battery died? Bump start it by yourself :)
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Reply #440 on: August 23, 2016, 02:12:20 PM

I keep seeing references to sporty being in the 200-300 hp range.  Not sure me likey.

My Acura is only 200HP and I think my BMW X3 is around 240.  Both are sporty enough; they're not boring to drive and I can get around people easy enough when I want to. I don't need a sports car, just sporty.  Plus, I'd like to keep the price down somewhat and get reasonable gas mileage. Before that I drove mostly light trucks and Honda Civics.  I can't go back to that.


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Reply #441 on: August 23, 2016, 02:43:29 PM

edit: Trippy, get a Tesla if you're worried about electric acceleration.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS
For an only car I'm not sure I'm ready for an electric-only car that's cheaper than a Model S. E.g. the Leaf is not good (for me) and the i3 looks funny and both don't have very long ranges.
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Reply #442 on: August 23, 2016, 06:24:14 PM

I keep seeing references to sporty being in the 200-300 hp range.  Not sure me likey.

It depends on weight. But the main thing is that cars today have much flatter torque curves and so much more low end power. Combine with better transmissions (and more gears closer together for the manuals) and 200 HP cars will perform like the 300 HP cars of old. Or better.

As an example, a 1968 Vette loses to the aforementioned G37 to 60 by a good second on theoretical numbers and 2.5 seconds on published/tested numbers. The Vette has 20 more listed horsepower and weighs 500 pounds less.

edit: Don't buy an Audi. Maybe an A/S 4 is ok but Audi's are heavy and they break. You almost certainly aren't going to use the AWD because you won't get in heavy enough snow for it to matter.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2016, 06:27:52 PM by Goumindong »
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Reply #443 on: August 23, 2016, 09:43:53 PM

I'm trying to temper her push for AWD with that kind of info. I drove a VW Rabbit loooong ago and it was a trooper in the snow. Inherited it from my dad who put over 200k on it commuting to Oswego through that snow belt I mentioned in the other thread. More fun to drive if you know the tricks, too (handbrake turns, j turns, etc). I learned stick in one and still my favorite car to drive, but that's also rose-colored glasses. Battery died? Bump start it by yourself :)

A good set of snow tires makes pretty much everything decent in the snow - AWD/4WD can get you moving faster, but does fuckall for stopping or turning without proper tires.

Is she opposed to a manual transmission entirely?

Two big thumbs-up for Hybrids. I'm averaging 42MPG on the trip to and from the office and between 36 and 39 if highway is involved. (Just broke 50 after lunch but I was in a school zone so >20mph)

This means I fill up once every two and a half weeks unless I'm driving out of town for an event. It's glorious.

I only fill up every two to three weeks too, but my drive to work is right around ten minutes and I never let the tank go below half-full during hurricane season.  One of the things that annoys me about my current car is the dinky 12 gallon tank.

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Reply #444 on: August 24, 2016, 05:40:54 AM

I felt the same way. Did you drive it?
I fired it up but just couldn't be inspired to waste time due to the complete lack of interest in the seats & interior.

Regarding the Prius & snow, mine did fine but I have 2 steep hills to get up & then down in my neighborhood & it would get stuck in snow going up periodically. The "going down" was scary as well, I lost control at 5mph and the car decided to slide off the road & go off-roading. Ended up bending the front subframe on the passenger side control arm mounting area and thereafter it never tracked straight. Getting it fixed was unbelievably expensive (replace entire front cradle assembly) so I dumped the car. I'm sure any smaller car would have had the same problem, doubtful it was limited to just the Prius. I drive a '73 full size station wagon now & it's beefier in such cases. Those cars & my F250 are what I'm used to getting in & out of & these smaller modern cars give my back fits getting in & out. I had forgotten about the Avalon though...
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Reply #445 on: August 24, 2016, 05:46:43 AM

I think front wheel drive is underrated in snow.  I owned my GTI for 5 years that I lived in the Rockies.  I often had to drive to Denver in snow storms and never had an issue.  I never got stuck in mountain passes. Now, I did have a manual... so I could simply put it in gear and push myself out of minor spots.  My concern was more with being high centered rather than traction.

I understand why Sky would want some ground clearance in NY, particularly if he lives in areas where snow clearing isn't great. 

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Reply #446 on: August 24, 2016, 06:37:58 AM

My GTI handles great in snow now that I have replaced the stock Dunlops with better (and actually less expensive, oddly enough) tires.

The issue I have is that when there is a couple inches of snow and the plows haven't hit a street recently, the piles of snow that end up between the wheel tracks on the streets get high enough that I can hear the skip plate under the engine scraping the pile. I wouldn't like the GTI as much if it had more ground clearance during non snow events, but during snow even an inch more clearance would be nice.

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Reply #447 on: August 24, 2016, 07:14:37 AM

Is she opposed to a manual transmission entirely?
Yup.
I think front wheel drive is underrated in snow.  I owned my GTI for 5 years that I lived in the Rockies.  I often had to drive to Denver in snow storms and never had an issue.  I never got stuck in mountain passes. Now, I did have a manual... so I could simply put it in gear and push myself out of minor spots.  My concern was more with being high centered rather than traction.

I understand why Sky would want some ground clearance in NY, particularly if he lives in areas where snow clearing isn't great. 
Yup. This isn't me, being able to push a car out of a bank. This is a petite 52 yr old woman :) And our city sucks for snow removal, I live on a dead end that generally won't be plowed during storms (they'll wait for it to pass over if they can). Snow up over the hood in her car, snowplowing down the road. The front plastic trim work is completely messed up on her Matrix from winter driving.
I drive a '73 full size station wagon now
There's a mid 60s flatbed sitting at the lot near the Mazda dealer that I'd love to snag. I put so few miles on a vehicle I'd ideally want a little electric for commuting and a big old flatbed for utility. Use her car for longer trips and keep the FJ or another 4WD for winter driving. I'd be the guy with the massive garage bigger than the house :p I'd also love an old camaro...
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Reply #448 on: August 24, 2016, 12:03:33 PM

I once almost wasn't able to leave a location in my car due to ice on a hill, so 4WD is an option.

Does a 2011 G37 count as "older"?  I absolutely need to drive whatever, but 330HP in 2011 will surely not equal 220HP in 2017.  Surely?

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Reply #449 on: August 24, 2016, 03:17:31 PM

I once almost wasn't able to leave a location in my car due to ice on a hill, so 4WD is an option.
The tradeoff for having a proper RWD car.

Quote
Does a 2011 G37 count as "older"?  I absolutely need to drive whatever, but 330HP in 2011 will surely not equal 220HP in 2017.  Surely?
It would if the 220 HP car was around 2400 pounds.
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Reply #450 on: August 25, 2016, 09:56:06 AM

I once almost wasn't able to leave a location in my car due to ice on a hill, so 4WD is an option.

Does a 2011 G37 count as "older"?  I absolutely need to drive whatever, but 330HP in 2011 will surely not equal 220HP in 2017.  Surely?

A 2011 G37 counts as newer so its 330 HP makes it a very sporty car.

As for the AWD question:

AWD will not help you on ice unless you want to go UP the hill. And even then...

The only real time AWD is helpful is: Power on on hard packed snow or fresh rain slick roads*. For deep snow what matters most is ride height. Do you drive up to go skiing a lot over snow covered roads? AWD will be helpful to get a few extra MPH out of the drive. But even then tires are the great equalizer.

But it won't save you from ice on a hill. Nothing will save you from ice on a hill. If you're on a hill and its iced, you walk. If you need to go on a hill and the road is iced you go around.

*If its been raining for a while the AWD won't really help you since the road won't really be slick enough for normal cars to have much an issue.

For examples you can see the difference tires make in this video of an A6 going up a ski jump. Normal winter tires don't make it. Thin spiked snow tires go up all the way. AWD or FWD probably won't make much difference here. (note there is a cable so that if something does go wrong the car doesn't fly off the end of the jump)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvNAb4gA6bs

This is what happens to an AWD car on an icy hill when it goes ballistic. He probably has snow tires but it doesn't matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILDOqppQL-U

If you're a very good driver you can get out of these situations with AWD. But only if you're a very good driver. You're still going to have lots of problems on ice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWBluNUEhA
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Reply #451 on: August 25, 2016, 09:59:00 AM

Yeah, the Ice on a hill comment was funny.

Nothing gives traction on ice. It's ice. You could have 100-wheel-drive and still go nowhere. It's fucking ice. Get skates and don't drive on it. ICE.

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Reply #452 on: August 25, 2016, 10:52:47 AM

If you find you have a regular need to drive up or down a hill covered in ice, the only sensible solution is to pack up all your shit and move south. Way south.

Hth

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Reply #453 on: August 25, 2016, 12:13:13 PM

Does it help if I mention that the place where I live isn't named "Lake in the HILLS" for nothing?  why so serious?

I've been more than pleased to have AWD on a few occasions, and unless I can ever convince the husband to leave shitty Illinois, I'm sticking with the AWD if possible.

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Reply #454 on: August 25, 2016, 01:26:13 PM

Those are speed bumps, not hills (says the guy who lives in an area where you can see grain elevators from 35 miles away at night.)  why so serious?


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