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Author Topic: Buying a new car, need some advice  (Read 341516 times)
Selby
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Reply #455 on: August 25, 2016, 02:10:59 PM

If you're on a hill and its iced, you walk. If you need to go on a hill and the road is iced you go around.
My drive to work has multiple ridges and get snowed up and occasionally iced over.  Nothing saves you on ice, especially when you're going down 200-300' over some windy ridge.  4WD has been handy to get the truck unstuck or traction on one side when the rear wheels don't have it.  I'm pretty much in the "fuck it" mindset this coming winter, I'm not wrecking my car again to get to work when no one is there (the office NEVER shuts down, ever so you're expected to be there in any weather).
MahrinSkel
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Reply #456 on: August 25, 2016, 04:03:16 PM

FWD is the best for snow/ice, and I say this as someone who learned to drive in Montana (we don't clear most of the roads up there, you drive on snowpack or you stay home). If I can't get up the hill on front wheel drive, I don't want to have to come back down, anyway.

--Dave

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Sky
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Reply #457 on: August 25, 2016, 08:08:20 PM

We're ok with the knowing how to drive in winter conditions, thanks. Having lived in a snow belt for 50 years or so.

There is no AWD 'question'. Nobody is saying FWD can't be good in snow.

On the other hand, having a foot of ground clearance, good tires and low gear 4WD has allowed me to drive in conditions neither AWD nor FWD would have helped. As I said, living on the Tug Hill trained me to be prepared. If it dumps a few feet of snow, I want to be able to hop in the truck and drive (and in fact it is my very favorite time to drive, with nobody on the roads and a couple of feet of snow to play in).

I think tomorrow is VW test night. She keeps talking about how 'big' the Crosstrek is, so I have a feeling she's going to get the Golf. She had one when she was a kid and always talks about it.
MisterNoisy
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Reply #458 on: August 25, 2016, 09:21:56 PM

Gonna go GTI or just the Golf?

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Chimpy
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Reply #459 on: August 26, 2016, 05:27:11 AM

The Golf/GTI is actually bigger inside than the Crosstrek (my 2 door GTI fits 4 adult sized people pretty comfortably).

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Reply #460 on: August 26, 2016, 09:42:09 AM

I left out a lot of details from the icy hill thing because this isn't a fucking blog and I have shit to do.  Perhaps not obvious, but I did manage to escape the valley (without sliding into the lake, too!) and did so via a gravel path.  The gravel path was almost a no-go.  I would not have been able to walk up the ice sheet.

I'll admit that I'm no expert, but the idea that being able to put any of my four tires on dirt/gravel or other tractionable surface might get me out of a jam is what appeals to me.  So, now it is time for someone to tell me that a single wheel getting traction on a 4WD vehicle won't do what I think it will.  Also I expect someone will tell me about "4WD" vs "AWD".

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Trippy
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Reply #461 on: August 26, 2016, 09:57:45 AM

Power to all 4 wheels can help with traction (especially with a traction control system that can detect wheel spin) but so does the amount of weight over the wheels. I'm old enough to remember a time when front wheel drive cars were not the norm and people used all sorts of tricks at times to put more weight over the rear drive wheels to get more traction including sticking their kids in the trunk awesome, for real

Compact front wheel drive cars inherently have a disproportionate amount of weight over the front tires which is why they inherently have more traction over the front tires than you normal rear wheel drive car will have over either set which is why they are usually better in situations where traction is important compared to most RWD cars and even some FWD/AWD cars.

Edit: assuming the cars are roughly the same weight

« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 10:02:00 AM by Trippy »
Goumindong
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Reply #462 on: August 26, 2016, 10:09:19 AM

I left out a lot of details from the icy hill thing because this isn't a fucking blog and I have shit to do.  Perhaps not obvious, but I did manage to escape the valley (without sliding into the lake, too!) and did so via a gravel path.  The gravel path was almost a no-go.  I would not have been able to walk up the ice sheet.

I'll admit that I'm no expert, but the idea that being able to put any of my four tires on dirt/gravel or other tractionable surface might get me out of a jam is what appeals to me.  So, now it is time for someone to tell me that a single wheel getting traction on a 4WD vehicle won't do what I think it will.  Also I expect someone will tell me about "4WD" vs "AWD".

There is essentially no difference between 4WD and AWD. The technical difference is that 4WD has a transfer case instead of a center differential. This would have made a difference in years past when cars were more likely to be running fully open differential but doesn't anymore(also one of the reasons why FWD and RWD aren't so much worse than AWD and also why your FWD car doesn't oversteer nearly as much as an older model) as almost all cars will have a lockable or maximum ratio center differential.

A transfer case is basically a transmission instead of a differential, and they usually run at some (or a number of ) fixed ratios. This hard locks the power distribution between front and rear wheels. A differential produces varying levels of power distribution between front and rear wheels. This is ideal when driving on full traction surfaces because turning will require that one front wheel travel further than the other. Which requires that the front wheels in general receive a different power load. Which requires a differential. (FWD cars understeer because power on tends to push the wheels to have the same velocity).

So a 4WD car should generally be driven in 2WD mode unless you get stuck and an AWD car will be driven in AWD all the time.

Buuut the difference is, in the end, pretty immaterial, and very few cars use a true 4WD system anymore (mainly trucks and off road vehicles) and your user manual will how to use your car anyway.

Sky
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Reply #463 on: August 26, 2016, 09:02:26 PM

I remember making people sit on the hood of my Rabbit to get traction  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? Of course everyone around here with a pickup knows to load it up with sandbags in the winter. Weight over the rear wheels + traction to get you out of a slick spot.

GTI is out because $$$. We do work at a library, folks. She's keeping it under $30k, but wants a long feature list. So it's about tarting up a lower model rather than taking a stripped-down version of a better model.
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Reply #464 on: August 27, 2016, 12:39:47 AM

When i got my car in 2007 i ended up with the Mazda 3 mainly because the Golf and co handled like boats and i couldn't feel the road. (This was also when they were cheaper than the Golf and Co). Either can be had under 30k with a decent feature list and good enough HP.  Looking at the 2016 models it looks to me like their pretty evenly priced if you want the big rims and sport springs on the Golf(not sure how much that would help). The big problem on the Mazda is that you can't get the 2.5L engine on the trimmed down versions.

With the GTI you're pay a lot of money for the extra 30 HP. Drop down to the regular and you can probably get all the gizmo's you want without breaking the bank. Look at the base Golf or the Wolfsburg and compare to the Mazda 3 S GT. They're essentially the same car as far as i can tell. You can get either for 25 grandish and save 1.1k when you get a manual.

Those look to be your only real options given what you've outlined
Sky
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Reply #465 on: August 27, 2016, 09:45:43 PM

She got a Golf TSI SE. Sales guy took us into the country...onto the road I grew up on and learned to drive on and test cars on when I was a kid and drive madly drunk on....she drove up and I drove back, dude was a little nervous but grinning ear to ear. I put it in the sport mode and tore it up and down the hills and s curves, I know the road better than any road on the planet :) I only made 90 on the little straightaway, though, balked a bit because an 18-wheeler somehow appeared in the other direction and it's a narrow road. Didn't want to hit sand and end up in the trees.

Was tough finding stock configured properly, only ones loaded the way she wanted it were black leatherette and fuck that ass burning nonsense. Dumped the driver assist stuff and got everything else she wanted, to the tune of $23k (not including trade). Some real nice pre-tax cash back going on over there. $3500 cash back for the Golf. And we got it from the dealer here in town, which is a big bonus.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 09:47:36 PM by Sky »
MisterNoisy
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Reply #466 on: August 29, 2016, 05:14:25 PM

She got a Golf TSI SE. Sales guy took us into the country...onto the road I grew up on and learned to drive on and test cars on when I was a kid and drive madly drunk on....she drove up and I drove back, dude was a little nervous but grinning ear to ear. I put it in the sport mode and tore it up and down the hills and s curves, I know the road better than any road on the planet :) I only made 90 on the little straightaway, though, balked a bit because an 18-wheeler somehow appeared in the other direction and it's a narrow road. Didn't want to hit sand and end up in the trees.

Was tough finding stock configured properly, only ones loaded the way she wanted it were black leatherette and fuck that ass burning nonsense. Dumped the driver assist stuff and got everything else she wanted, to the tune of $23k (not including trade). Some real nice pre-tax cash back going on over there. $3500 cash back for the Golf. And we got it from the dealer here in town, which is a big bonus.

Congratulations!  Hope it serves you guys well.  :)

I hear ya on the leather.  Looks great, but pretty much the worst option from a practical standpoint.

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Reply #467 on: August 29, 2016, 06:08:16 PM

Leather is a lot easier to clean. Fabric just gets gross over time.

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Nebu
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Reply #468 on: August 29, 2016, 06:28:22 PM

Leather is a lot easier to clean. Fabric just gets gross over time.

This.  Properly cared for, leather seats outlast cloth by a significant margin.

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Reply #469 on: August 29, 2016, 06:53:56 PM

All it took was one crayon melted into my nice cloth seats to change my mind. Seatcovers or leather. If you've got animals or kids  it's really not even a choice.

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Sky
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Reply #470 on: August 29, 2016, 07:56:08 PM

Black leather(ette) seats in the summer? Eh, no thanks.

Fwiw, I like my FJ's synthetic seats and utter lack of carpeting in the entire vehicle. I don't understand why carpet is even still a thing in vehicles, it should've gone out of style with bathroom carpet.
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Reply #471 on: August 29, 2016, 11:26:52 PM

The faux leather that VW uses is really not very nice. It is closer to early 1980s vinyl than leather.


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Reply #472 on: August 30, 2016, 03:14:53 AM

Black leather(ette) seats in the summer? Eh, no thanks.

Fwiw, I like my FJ's synthetic seats and utter lack of carpeting in the entire vehicle. I don't understand why carpet is even still a thing in vehicles, it should've gone out of style with bathroom carpet.

Cheap sound dampening.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #473 on: August 30, 2016, 04:32:07 AM

Black leather(ette) seats in the summer? Eh, no thanks.

Fwiw, I like my FJ's synthetic seats and utter lack of carpeting in the entire vehicle. I don't understand why carpet is even still a thing in vehicles, it should've gone out of style with bathroom carpet.

Cheap sound dampening.

And insulation in general.

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MisterNoisy
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Reply #474 on: August 30, 2016, 05:14:53 AM

All it took was one crayon melted into my nice cloth seats to change my mind. Seatcovers or leather. If you've got animals or kids  it's really not even a choice.

Yeah, that'd do it.  No kids/pets + Florida, so I'm coming at it from a different angle.

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kaid
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Reply #475 on: August 30, 2016, 06:43:23 AM

FWD is the best for snow/ice, and I say this as someone who learned to drive in Montana (we don't clear most of the roads up there, you drive on snowpack or you stay home). If I can't get up the hill on front wheel drive, I don't want to have to come back down, anyway.

--Dave

Bare minimum go front wheel drive on snow/ice. If you can get AWD or 4 Wheel drive those are better yet but I only once in my life owned a rear wheel drive car in wisconsin and it was damn near un-drivable for a few months of the year. Even packed with 8 bags of sand in the back that thing would have its back end shoot out unexpectedly on you if you hit glare ice and was totally unsafe at highway speeds with ice/snow.
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Reply #476 on: September 26, 2016, 09:22:04 AM

Is this a fine place for me to complain about tire models changing such that I have to re-learn a bunch of shit instead of just ordering the same ones that I already have?

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Reply #477 on: September 26, 2016, 09:29:50 AM

This entire forum is a place to air our first world problems, and this thread is about cars so sure.  why so serious?

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Reply #478 on: September 26, 2016, 09:32:44 AM

Is this a fine place for me to complain about tire models changing such that I have to re-learn a bunch of shit instead of just ordering the same ones that I already have?

They did? Are they easier to understand now or worse than before?

- Viin
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Reply #479 on: September 26, 2016, 10:54:46 AM

The numbers are the same, but I had already done a lot of research and chose the Eagle GT tire.  I've been pleased with them and assumed I'd just be able to order a new set, but no.  They do not exist.  There is a GT II but it won't fit my car and appears to be for trucks.  There is a Eagle Sport All-Season that will fit, and I guess I'll go with that, but the price is lower by about $50-60 per tire and I'm suspicious that a 50k-mile tire will be too hard.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Reply #480 on: September 26, 2016, 11:19:56 AM

I'm having major first world problems with my car shopping. My wife wants a backup camera and parking sensors, because her family are all awful at parking in regular parking spots. I've survived OK without this on my car, but it seems to be a deal breaker for her. Also, she seems to be keen on parking sensors.

Problem is that this pushes a sub 40K car into the 45-50k range.  This is doable, but more than I would like to spend.

So, time to look at stuff I wasn't considering before. It seems to be a lot easier to get all of the safety nonsense in Subaru than an Audi. But, it seems like all of the non-luxury sedans have really weak 4 cylinder engines, so a 6 is probably going to be a must. Used would be an option, but it seems like nobody ordered the tech packages (where you usually see the safety stuff) in cars that I like.

Fun. I don't mind car shopping/test driving, but it just takes forever.

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Reply #481 on: September 26, 2016, 12:26:36 PM

Fuck Subarus. Jesus, they ride like bricks.

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Reply #482 on: September 26, 2016, 12:31:34 PM

Fuck Subarus. Jesus, they ride like bricks.

It's funny, every single dealer had nothing but nice things to say about them. Nobody would directly compare or disparage anything other than just "it's not a luxury car, you will notice this".

I liked the Crosstrek we rented in Oregon.  The engine was a underwhelming, however.  It seemed to struggle on climbs.

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Reply #483 on: September 26, 2016, 12:31:48 PM

Just FWIW, I got my Audi A6 for low 40's after it was returned from a short lease (about a year) - only 7k miles and 6 more years on the warranty when I picked it up. It has all that stuff and a supercharged V6!

- Viin
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Reply #484 on: September 26, 2016, 12:33:29 PM

I didn't know they still made cars without backup cameras.

My G37 was actually a Enterprise rental before I got it.  YMMV.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Reply #485 on: September 26, 2016, 12:39:30 PM

Just FWIW, I got my Audi A6 for low 40's after it was returned from a short lease (about a year) - only 7k miles and 6 more years on the warranty when I picked it up. It has all that stuff and a supercharged V6!

Little bigger than I want. I'd like to stay comfortably midsize. There is a 2016 in Phoenix with sub 6k miles on it.  It's a 2.0L 4, however.

The A4 was just a lot of fun to drive. Only thing I liked more was the IS200t. For a 4 it really hauled ass. But the IS's back seat seems a tortuously small.  I don't imagine my son shrinking in the near future.


-Rasix
Selby
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Reply #486 on: September 26, 2016, 12:44:40 PM

My wife wants a backup camera and parking sensors, because her family are all awful at parking in regular parking spots. I've survived OK without this on my car, but it seems to be a deal breaker for her. Also, she seems to be keen on parking sensors.
Welcome to my life shopping with my wife as well.  And it really seems the majority of newer cars aren't ordered with tech packages.  All I could find at our local dealers were premium stereos, but things like ventilated seats, backup cameras, etc weren't included.  And it's not like any of these things were major expenses when the cars were new (like $300-500 each) it just appears the dealer order guy didn't check off the boxes and people tend to buy cars as-is off the lot rather than shop for options.  My dad wanted the lane shift indicators with integrated camera that new newer Honda Accords offer (this is neat) and when he went to a dealer, they only had 2 out there in like a 6 state area.

I can see not ordering navigation since it's still usually a stupidly priced item ($2-3k) but things like backup cameras not being ordered are annoying.  And when you start getting into the higher end of cars like Audis, the price really does get stupid pretty fast.
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Reply #487 on: September 26, 2016, 12:51:35 PM

New Cadillac shifter is balls.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Sky
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Reply #488 on: September 26, 2016, 01:19:08 PM

Those lane camera things are nice, my dad has one on his Honda.

I don't know what the hell I'm going to do when it's time to replace the FJ. It was head and shoulders above everything else unless I wanted to spend $$$.

Btw, she's loving teh heck out of the Golf (she got a TSI SE).
Selby
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Reply #489 on: September 26, 2016, 01:24:09 PM

I don't know what the hell I'm going to do when it's time to replace the FJ.
Do what I do: keep it running as long as possible and when it's time to replace it due to rust or a wreck, buy another one from out west. It won't be as easy as going to the local dealer but it's what you want and it's easy enough to do.
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