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Author Topic: Buying a new car, need some advice  (Read 163963 times)
Rasix
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Reply #1050 on: June 15, 2020, 04:38:39 PM

My 2011 BMW X3 has been pretty great. Granted it's going to a more expensive, but it's both fun to drive, comfortable, and not too big. Of course, they seem to have gotten bigger in recent years. Plus, once you start adding a bunch of crap to these mid range SUVs, the price starts approaching what we paid.

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Reply #1051 on: June 15, 2020, 04:45:51 PM

https://www.ford.com/suvs/bronco/

I'm waiting to see how this is... I am a sedan type so SUVs are a non-starter for me, but I am curious. My first car was a 1992 Ford Ranger and I loved that little piece of shit.

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
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Reply #1052 on: June 16, 2020, 06:58:43 AM

Does anyone have input on current midrange small SUVs? We were thinking Forester but kinda like CRV too. Havenít bought a new car in (checks math) a decade and a half.

Current car is still good to go for day to day, but starting to get worried about vacation trips. Plus, stick shift in Seattle has finally worn me down after ten years.

I would avoid VW, as they still have a lot of quality control issues.  The Forester is nice, but there also can be maintenance costs that can get up there over time.  Hondas have been great and boring for years.  Drive everything, take your time, and buy on the last day of the month to get the best deal.

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Reply #1053 on: June 16, 2020, 07:01:52 AM

https://www.ford.com/suvs/bronco/

I'm waiting to see how this is... I am a sedan type so SUVs are a non-starter for me, but I am curious. My first car was a 1992 Ford Ranger and I loved that little piece of shit.

It's supposed to be built on a classic frame so expect a no so great ride on pavement in exchange for the ability to actually go off-roading.  Too bad that Ford is putting their ecoboost engine into it rather than a normally aspirated V8 but oh well.

"Die of flaming ass cancer you schmuck. No really, die."

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Reply #1054 on: June 16, 2020, 07:48:30 AM

It's supposed to be built on a classic frame so expect a no so great ride on pavement in exchange for the ability to actually go off-roading.  Too bad that Ford is putting their ecoboost engine into it rather than a normally aspirated V8 but oh well.

I'm in a minority, but I prefer an SUV to operate like a truck rather than a lifted station wagon. And that ecoboost is no joke. I think they should drop the name and make it standard given all the emissions emphasis... too many people see a description with eco-friendly and figure it is crap, trading off power and utility for flowers and rainbows. Ford's ecoboost engine line is on par with all the other industry's turbo'd small engines.

Figure the days of the big block V8s are going to be relegated to the purists, and frankly, they are not the majority of the market. The sedan is dying out in favor of the station wagon...erm, SUV, because of this.

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
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Reply #1055 on: June 16, 2020, 08:21:01 AM

It's supposed to be built on a classic frame so expect a no so great ride on pavement in exchange for the ability to actually go off-roading.  Too bad that Ford is putting their ecoboost engine into it rather than a normally aspirated V8 but oh well.

I'm in a minority, but I prefer an SUV to operate like a truck rather than a lifted station wagon. And that ecoboost is no joke. I think they should drop the name and make it standard given all the emissions emphasis... too many people see a description with eco-friendly and figure it is crap, trading off power and utility for flowers and rainbows. Ford's ecoboost engine line is on par with all the other industry's turbo'd small engines.

Figure the days of the big block V8s are going to be relegated to the purists, and frankly, they are not the majority of the market. The sedan is dying out in favor of the station wagon...erm, SUV, because of this.

I'm not an ecoboost fan because it's a Turbo engine that is very expensive to maintain.  Yes it has plenty of power, but stay away from Turbos whenever you can. 

"Die of flaming ass cancer you schmuck. No really, die."

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Reply #1056 on: June 16, 2020, 08:43:09 AM

I'm in a minority, but I prefer an SUV to operate like a truck rather than a lifted station wagon. And that ecoboost is no joke. I think they should drop the name and make it standard given all the emissions emphasis... too many people see a description with eco-friendly and figure it is crap, trading off power and utility for flowers and rainbows. Ford's ecoboost engine line is on par with all the other industry's turbo'd small engines.

Figure the days of the big block V8s are going to be relegated to the purists, and frankly, they are not the majority of the market. The sedan is dying out in favor of the station wagon...erm, SUV, because of this.

I'm not an ecoboost fan because it's a Turbo engine that is very expensive to maintain.  Yes it has plenty of power, but stay away from Turbos whenever you can. 

That is fair, but the turbos for this generation of cars are pretty robust and rarely tuned to the point of supplying boost enough to tax it. I have a turbo in my 2015 Regal and it has had no issues. Granted, it is another part to fail, but they said the same about AC and heated seats. I think the tech has come far enough and is wide spread enough that it is a non-issue. Besides, most people buying cars run under warranties now to avoid the maintenance costs - why else would BMW still be selling cars?

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
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Reply #1057 on: June 16, 2020, 09:05:48 AM

I'm in a minority, but I prefer an SUV to operate like a truck rather than a lifted station wagon. And that ecoboost is no joke. I think they should drop the name and make it standard given all the emissions emphasis... too many people see a description with eco-friendly and figure it is crap, trading off power and utility for flowers and rainbows. Ford's ecoboost engine line is on par with all the other industry's turbo'd small engines.

Figure the days of the big block V8s are going to be relegated to the purists, and frankly, they are not the majority of the market. The sedan is dying out in favor of the station wagon...erm, SUV, because of this.

I'm not an ecoboost fan because it's a Turbo engine that is very expensive to maintain.  Yes it has plenty of power, but stay away from Turbos whenever you can. 

That is fair, but the turbos for this generation of cars are pretty robust and rarely tuned to the point of supplying boost enough to tax it. I have a turbo in my 2015 Regal and it has had no issues. Granted, it is another part to fail, but they said the same about AC and heated seats. I think the tech has come far enough and is wide spread enough that it is a non-issue. Besides, most people buying cars run under warranties now to avoid the maintenance costs - why else would BMW still be selling cars?

Yea you get it.  If you don't plan to keep it long, a turbo is fine.  Once you hit 125,000 miles, it's a 4,000 dollar repair bill just waiting to happen.

 Side note, my golfing buddy runs a BMW/GMC/Buick dealership in New Hampshire.  It's all about image and service for the BMW crew. 

"Die of flaming ass cancer you schmuck. No really, die."

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Reply #1058 on: June 16, 2020, 11:32:55 AM

And the possible new contender for FJ owners, the new Bronco, is ecoboost  Ohhhhh, I see.

As someone who plans to own a vehicle for decades...bah.

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Reply #1059 on: June 16, 2020, 12:53:04 PM

Yea you get it.  If you don't plan to keep it long, a turbo is fine.  Once you hit 125,000 miles, it's a 4,000 dollar repair bill just waiting to happen.

 Side note, my golfing buddy runs a BMW/GMC/Buick dealership in New Hampshire.  It's all about image and service for the BMW crew. 

$4k is on the high end of nice cars. For an American 5-8 year keeper vehicle, its more like $2k. Not pocket change especially with a whole lot of unemployment and people living pay-to-pay with no health insurance. But you can say that about any mechanical item on a vehicle these days... it is just an extra part that will break - just gamble on the when.

I don't have a doubt manufacturers chose this and see it as a way to recoup the costs of having to make an eco engine... oh if we make it enviro-friendly, you will sacrifice horsepower...but wait, we can bolt on this turbo and make it work! now you get it all, more power and saving the whales (and making us money in the service dept when it fails).of the times. Hopefully there will be a capacity breakthru in batteries and we'll all move to electric in the next 20 years.

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
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Reply #1060 on: June 16, 2020, 11:48:30 PM

I like the power delivery of modern turbo engines - it's really well-suited to cut and thrust in city/suburban traffic, with lots of torque down low and broad, flat power delivery.  The only downer is that they don't sound as nice as a higher-revving NA motor.

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Khaldun
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Reply #1061 on: June 17, 2020, 09:24:19 AM

The 2k/4k repair at a certain point btw seems to me a general thing about all manufacturing, not just cars. Across a really wide spectrum of durable appliances, they just don't seem to be built to last in a way that was more common three decades ago. That would be a really interesting subject for an investigative series by a long-form journalist, actually.
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Reply #1062 on: June 17, 2020, 12:24:58 PM

The 2k/4k repair at a certain point btw seems to me a general thing about all manufacturing, not just cars. Across a really wide spectrum of durable appliances, they just don't seem to be built to last in a way that was more common three decades ago. That would be a really interesting subject for an investigative series by a long-form journalist, actually.



This is just a perception thing when it comes to cars.  Cars are more reliable than ever and they last a lot longer than they used to.

"Die of flaming ass cancer you schmuck. No really, die."

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Rasix
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Reply #1063 on: June 17, 2020, 12:32:42 PM

I like the power delivery of modern turbo engines - it's really well-suited to cut and thrust in city/suburban traffic, with lots of torque down low and broad, flat power delivery.  The only downer is that they don't sound as nice as a higher-revving NA motor.

The quality of turbo's seemed to vary last time we did test drives. VW's had a very noticeable lag, while Acura's seemed to be a lot better in that regard. Is that still the case?

We're probably looking at a car in the next 5 or so years when my son is able to drive. He'll get a hand-me-down of whatever car is functioning the best, and we'll get something (hopefully less pricey). This process may be expedited if the X3 croaks or starts tossing up ridiculous repair costs in between then and now.

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Reply #1064 on: June 17, 2020, 01:04:35 PM

I'm pulling out a Subaru EJ25 motor out of a 2007 Impreza in my garage , changing the head gaskets, pulling the motor out of a rallyx Subaru, and putting the first motor in that one.  I think this is the 6th or 7th car I've done this to.

 Once I'm done it will be good for 5 years.  Mid 2000 Subarus are great for first time drivers once you reseal the engine.

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Sky
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Reply #1065 on: June 17, 2020, 01:11:01 PM

Cars are more reliable than ever and they last a lot longer than they used to.
I'm honestly shocked the FJ is still in great shape after 12 1/2 years of winter driving (salt). Though it is starting to have an effect, having to replace the muffler last year and another heat shield just had its bolts rust through. Why cars are still made with ferrous metals is a mystery to me (not really but c'mon, man). If it had all aluminum bits or better, it would be a quick detailing away from being close to brand new.

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Reply #1066 on: June 17, 2020, 01:44:09 PM

Cars are more reliable than ever and they last a lot longer than they used to.
I'm honestly shocked the FJ is still in great shape after 12 1/2 years of winter driving (salt). Though it is starting to have an effect, having to replace the muffler last year and another heat shield just had its bolts rust through. Why cars are still made with ferrous metals is a mystery to me (not really but c'mon, man). If it had all aluminum bits or better, it would be a quick detailing away from being close to brand new.

Aluminum doesn't take well to lots of high heat then cold cycle so the exhaust bits have to be steel.

"Die of flaming ass cancer you schmuck. No really, die."

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Reply #1067 on: June 17, 2020, 02:03:42 PM

I like the power delivery of modern turbo engines - it's really well-suited to cut and thrust in city/suburban traffic, with lots of torque down low and broad, flat power delivery.  The only downer is that they don't sound as nice as a higher-revving NA motor.

The quality of turbo's seemed to vary last time we did test drives. VW's had a very noticeable lag, while Acura's seemed to be a lot better in that regard. Is that still the case?

We're probably looking at a car in the next 5 or so years when my son is able to drive. He'll get a hand-me-down of whatever car is functioning the best, and we'll get something (hopefully less pricey). This process may be expedited if the X3 croaks or starts tossing up ridiculous repair costs in between then and now.

Well all turbos will have some lag to them. Personally, I found the smaller casement turbos with good bearings have less lag. My guess is the more robust turbos have a lengthier time spooling up but are usually tuned to higher PSI. I would guess your typical disposable ecofriendly car that adds the turbo to decrease the sacrifice made to the eco-gods have the former... cheaper and good for just over the life of the warranty. I'd wager a naturally aspirated vehicle is going to be a unicorn in the next 5 years - they just cannot keep up with the advancing electrics and their instant power to wheel torque and the MPG aware commuter that still wants the power to pass on the road but doesn't want to saddle the 15-18mpg CITY numbers.

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
Khaldun
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Reply #1068 on: June 17, 2020, 08:37:36 PM

Well, we drove a Forester to 175,000 miles with not that much put into it, so point taken.
MisterNoisy
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Reply #1069 on: June 17, 2020, 09:38:52 PM

I like the power delivery of modern turbo engines - it's really well-suited to cut and thrust in city/suburban traffic, with lots of torque down low and broad, flat power delivery.  The only downer is that they don't sound as nice as a higher-revving NA motor.

The quality of turbo's seemed to vary last time we did test drives. VW's had a very noticeable lag, while Acura's seemed to be a lot better in that regard. Is that still the case?

We're probably looking at a car in the next 5 or so years when my son is able to drive. He'll get a hand-me-down of whatever car is functioning the best, and we'll get something (hopefully less pricey). This process may be expedited if the X3 croaks or starts tossing up ridiculous repair costs in between then and now.

Most of the current crop of small turbo motors are set up for lots of torque really early in the rev range (my car hits peak torque at 1450 rpm) and they run out of steam as revs climb past 5k.  On top of that, the old-school turbo lag on/off quality in high performance applications has been dialed out via computer control and better materials - older turbo engines' foibles are basically nonexistent now in anything mass produced.  What you end up with is something that feels strong off the line, but also doesn't wind out as much as you'd like or make as much noise as you'd want.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 09:43:06 PM by MisterNoisy »

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Goumindong
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Reply #1070 on: June 18, 2020, 05:24:39 AM

I would guess your typical disposable ecofriendly car that adds the turbo to decrease the sacrifice made to the eco-gods have the former... cheaper and good for just over the life of the warranty.

They tend to tune the turbo lag such that you do not get to use it in daily driving. Such that they do not run high horsepower during the 55 MPH highway tests.
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Reply #1071 on: June 18, 2020, 09:13:07 AM

At 221k miles, my FJ just had it's first rust-related failure, power steering return line rusted out at the bend. At least it was a fairly easy fix, but probably a taste of things to come. Stupid salted roads.
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Reply #1072 on: June 21, 2020, 07:57:19 AM

Couple of years ago switched from a car I'd had for over 10 years to company lease scheme, and jumping forward 10 years of development, the thing that really shocked me is how effective modern turbos designed to improve fuel consumption are.

I don't notice any of the lag I've felt driving turbos designed for performance and the fuel efficiency step up was very noticeable.

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Reply #1073 on: June 21, 2020, 11:44:18 AM


Aluminum doesn't take well to lots of high heat then cold cycle so the exhaust bits have to be steel.
It's freaksih because the undercarraige looks almost new except for the ferrous parts (bolts and exhaust stuff).

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Reply #1074 on: June 23, 2020, 02:04:57 PM


Aluminum doesn't take well to lots of high heat then cold cycle so the exhaust bits have to be steel.
It's freaksih because the undercarraige looks almost new except for the ferrous parts (bolts and exhaust stuff).

You should see my RallyCross car.  It's a 2000 Subaru Impreza that have lived most of it's life drifting on salt covered roads going sideways, ice racing, etc.  I've welded in patch panels on top of patches, and I've ripped off the exhaust at least 3 times during events.




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Salamok
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Reply #1075 on: June 28, 2020, 05:48:09 PM

Man the graphics on Forza are getting crazy good.
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