The Hobbit (2012/2013)

[Ingmar]

Good news, everyone: Jackson's latest quote is "much of the new content involves a feminine character". So I'm thinking romance is indeed in the offing unless he means Galadriel and nothing else.

Yer kidding, right?   There is no feminine character in the Hobbit, except via LotR, Galadriel.  Yea, I'm hoping there's no Aragorn/Arwen style thing.   

Presumably about half the elves in Thranduil's hall, but yeah. Based on the trailers I'm assuming there's going to be a bunch of Galadriel doing stuff. Hopefully not just watching stuff in the Mirror.

[Evildrider]

I haven't read all the other stuff, that goes with the Hobbit, that he is pulling ideas from.  Are there any stories that involve a character that he may be using?

[Khaldun]

Pretty much it's the appendices plus Christopher Tolkien's necromancy in various volumes. My guess is that you'll at least see Thrain II (Thorin's dad) since he croaks in the Necromancer's dungeon and gives Gandalf the map of Lonely Mountain. How they'll visualize the Necromancer (Sauron) is also an interesting question. The appendices that deal with this stuff are actually like a narrative or mini-story and fairly readable compared to the more bookish or scholarly ones.

Dain also gets some time in the appendices and gets a heroic death along with Bard during the War of the Ring. It's actually a fairly awesome little scene buried deep in the appendices to LOTR and makes clear that Gandalf encouraged the dwarves to go to Lonely Mountain partly out of consideration for the damage that Smaug might do in any conflict with Sauron. That might also come up in The Hobbit films.

[Cyrrex]

Dain also gets some time in the appendices and gets a heroic death along with Bard during the War of the Ring. It's actually a fairly awesome little scene buried deep in the appendices to LOTR and makes clear that Gandalf encouraged the dwarves to go to Lonely Mountain partly out of consideration for the damage that Smaug might do in any conflict with Sauron. That might also come up in The Hobbit films.

I know things turned out all right and stuff...but seriously, WTF was Gandalf thinking?  That he would send up a bunch of terrified dwarves and a hobbit that he did not know would have a ring to hide himself, and somehow that was supposed to take care of Smaug somehow?  Okay, so it totally did, but no way he could have predicted that.  It war far more likely that Smaug would have wiped them all out, including Bard and his little town.  How was this supposed to remove Smaug as a weapon Sauron could use?

[Ironwood]

You're meddling in the affairs of Wizards mate.  That's not bright.


All the books, films, cartoons, poems and ANYTHING makes it quite clear that Gandalf knew exactly what he was doing at all times.  Sometimes it was a gamble, but it was always an informed one.  The only interesting slip that Gandalf ever really made was not having a clue that the wee gold ring Bilbo filched was the Ring of Power and the Doom of Men.

[Cyrrex]

You're meddling in the affairs of Wizards mate.  That's not bright.

Hah, I know, I totally am.

While you are quite right about it being made clear that Gandalf was always on top of his shit, in reality that's just a convenient excuse to hide the fact that some of what he does probably doesn't make a lot of sense.  Kind of like asking "why does God let babies die?" and getting the answer "God has a plan, and it is not ours to question".

I love me some Gandalf, don't get me wrong.  But if if that was his master plan to get rid of a scary fucking dragon, then he was probably more lucky than prescient.  I think I can whip up 5 better plans without too much effort.

[Khaldun]

In the appendices, Gandalf says that he met up with Thorin in Bree kind of by accident, on a night when he was pondering what to do about Smaug given the danger he posed if things really did heat up with the Necromancer/probably Sauron. And then I think his wizardly spider-sense went off--it's pretty clear that Gandalf occasionally gets intuitions that something is meant to be or that an improbable chance is going to work out. The only reason he hesitates about sending Frodo to Mordor in LOTR, for example, is not really that he thinks Frodo is going to screw up or get caught at the first chance but that Frodo will suffer enormous pain. He's really quite sure that Frodo was "meant to have the Ring". I think the appendix story suggests that Gandalf is equally sure that Thorin is meant to go confront Smaug and then sure again that Bilbo is meant to go along with them.

[Ironwood]

Yes.  It's quite clear that Olorin from the get-go is not happy about responsibility.  He didn't want to go to Middle Earth, he dislikes putting people in danger or jeopardy and he hates the idea that his choices cause pain.  He also really, really envies Tom Bombadil, who gives a fuck about nothing and does just as much.  He also spends as much of his time as possible stoned out of his head.

" Balrog.  What Evil Fate.  And I am already weary."

As in "Yeah, I can fuck this guy up no problem, but there goes my weekend."

[Ratman_tf]

Dain also gets some time in the appendices and gets a heroic death along with Bard during the War of the Ring. It's actually a fairly awesome little scene buried deep in the appendices to LOTR and makes clear that Gandalf encouraged the dwarves to go to Lonely Mountain partly out of consideration for the damage that Smaug might do in any conflict with Sauron. That might also come up in The Hobbit films.

I know things turned out all right and stuff...but seriously, WTF was Gandalf thinking?  That he would send up a bunch of terrified dwarves and a hobbit that he did not know would have a ring to hide himself, and somehow that was supposed to take care of Smaug somehow?  Okay, so it totally did, but no way he could have predicted that.  It war far more likely that Smaug would have wiped them all out, including Bard and his little town.  How was this supposed to remove Smaug as a weapon Sauron could use?

In universe: The Valar and Maiar learned the whole history of Arda when they sung it into existence. When Olorin took mortal form as Gandalf, he took on mortal weaknesses, and the things he knew as a Maiar became like a dream. So while he gets hunches and insights his foresight is hardly perfect.

Real life: Tolkien was retconning the links between the Hobbit and the LOTR trilogy. The dude spent the rest of his life explaining the holes in this huge mythology he'd created, instead of actually writing anymore goddam books.

[Tannhauser]

I've always thought Tom was Tolkien writing himself into the story.  The elves named him 'First' which is some name for that race to bestow.
-The One Ring didn't affect him at all.  Which implies he is at least Sauron's equal. 

He's a fascinating character with no easy explanation.

[Samwise]

I feel like "no easy explanation" is the whole point behind Tom Bombadil.  He's there to show you that there are things older and more powerful than the chief players in the story, just so you don't get the idea that what you're seeing of Middle Earth is all there is.

[lamaros]

Which reminds me of all the best bits of the movies: cut out all that unconventional shite and make it an action film! Yeah! Ent are stupid tools! Everything is done with dramatic timing! Can't explain it through a big shiny/grim dark helm staff or sword? Cut it!

[Ironwood]

Wait, what ?

[NowhereMan]

all the best bits of the movies

I suspect that part was ironic...

[sickrubik]

I know most hate 3D, but I don't.. well, as long as it's done well, which admittedly a lot of it is not.

Anyway.. what the fuck is this abomination? Can't wait to wear this uncomfortable thing for 3 hours.

http://fashionablygeek.com/news/special-hobbit-3d-glasses-look-ridiculously-uncomfortable/

[Khaldun]

At one point in The Two Towers (book) Gimli says something like "Well, Gandalf's foresight failed him when he agreed to go into Moria, didn't it" and Aragorn says something like, "His foresight wasn't about avoiding danger to himself or others."

[Ironwood]

Also, it didn't really fail him, did it ?  Gimli thought he was dead and he was totally fine.

He even got a nice white robe out the deal.  Balrog drops are the best.

[Khaldun]

Yeah, though I have always had the impression that Gandalf did not have any foresight of his resurrection or even being certain of defeating the Balrog--that knowing it was waiting for him was his Garden of Gethesemane moment--would he fail in his appointed task, leave his friends helpless? Also he knows that physical life involves pain--he feels weariness, physical pain, etc., so I'm sure he's not looking forward to whatever happens to his body even if he's sure he'll be called home.

[Sheepherder]

Late to the party, but it's not even that long of a shot.  Thirteen dwarves and a Hobbit for a start, when Gimli in LotR accounts for about fifty Uruk-hai in a single battle.  Then toss in three armies, one of which was at Thorin's disposal, and two of which would have stirred themselves for phat lewts if not the idea of having an awakened and enraged dragon as a neighbour.  Then toss in a legendary bowman who had sworn an oath of revenge against said dragon, who Gandalf was probably aware of, since it's his hobby to keep track of the dispossessed sons of kings and all.

See, a good deal of this story is about dwarves making things more difficult than is strictly necessary.

[Khaldun]

Certainly Bard has a backstory that could be profitably expanded--Tolkien only hints at what is somewhat obvious when you read it as an adult, which is that the Master of Laketown is some unworthy merchant asshole who has bemusedly taken in the heir of Dale and given him a job that lets him boss him around. I have a strong suspicion that Jackson will probably expand the Master's plotline, since he's a good minor villain that can pace out the story a bit while chewing some scenery, especially considering the bad end he eventually comes to.

Female storyline in the movies is now confirmed to be a female elf warrior played by Evangeline Lilly who will play some role in the Dol Guldur plot and then be involved in the Five Armies stuff, who is rumored to be in love with Kili (of "Fili and Kili" fame) or maybe vice-versa. Basically a heterosexual shipper's version of Gimli and Legolas.

[Tannhauser]

Ok I really liked your first paragraph, but then your second drove me off a cliff.

[Khaldun]

Unfortunately I'm not joking. She's playing a character named Tauriel, who is the head of the "elven guard", presumably at the palace in Mirkwood. She's confirmed in interviews that she's in the first film just a bit but has a very significant role in the second. And there are persistent rumors that Kili will be infatuated with her and that they'll return to the romance subplot in the third film.

[Ratman_tf]

Unfortunately I'm not joking. She's playing a character named Tauriel, who is the head of the "elven guard", presumably at the palace in Mirkwood. She's confirmed in interviews that she's in the first film just a bit but has a very significant role in the second. And there are persistent rumors that Kili will be infatuated with her and that they'll return to the romance subplot in the third film.

[Evildrider]

Unfortunately I'm not joking. She's playing a character named Tauriel, who is the head of the "elven guard", presumably at the palace in Mirkwood. She's confirmed in interviews that she's in the first film just a bit but has a very significant role in the second. And there are persistent rumors that Kili will be infatuated with her and that they'll return to the romance subplot in the third film.

[Ironwood]

That's a horrible rumour.

[Sir T]

[Soln]

Wow.  So much   and    This is Kate of Lost for whom I wished would justgoaway sooo many times.  And now shoehorned into the Hobbit?   Awwwwwww fug  

Edit:  I am naive

Good news, everyone: Jackson's latest quote is "much of the new content involves a feminine character". So I'm thinking romance is indeed in the offing unless he means Galadriel and nothing else.

Yer kidding, right?   There is no feminine character in the Hobbit, except via LotR, Galadriel.  Yea, I'm hoping there's no Aragorn/Arwen style thing.   

[Kitsune]

So they're tacking on an entire extraneous movie to a fairly short story so they can add content that was never part of the story.

[MahrinSkel]

So they're tacking on an entire extraneous movie to a fairly short story so they can add content that was never part of the story.

Yeah, I've moved from "I've got to see this" to "I'll wait for the fan edit that cuts it down to just the stuff that was in the book."  Padding it out to three movies and adding this completely irrelevant character *just* so they can have a love story going tripped my tolerance for having money siphoned out of my wallet.

--Dave

[Sheepherder]

So they're tacking on an entire extraneous movie to a fairly short story so they can add content that was never part of the story.

There's quite a bit of content that's not part of the story which would nevertheless be worth including.  Then there's shit made up out of whole cloth which makes you wonder whether you read the same source material.

[Hutch]

There's quite a bit of content that's not part of the story which would nevertheless be worth including.  Then there's shit made up out of whole cloth which makes you wonder whether you read the same source material.

But but but ... if we don't inject a romance into the story, one that was never written anywhere by anyone named Tolkein, how will we get the world's biggest built-in audience to watch this trilogy in a theater?

And then buy the DVD special editions?

And then again on Blu-ray?

And then again on Optic-Nerve-Shunt?

[Ironwood]

I can't believe how quickly my Awesome balloon has been popped.

It's, like, totally deflated and flaccid.

[01101010]

I can't believe how quickly my Awesome balloon has been popped.

It's, like, totally deflated and flaccid.

I am shocked by this given your personality and general outlook. You are better than this!

[Ironwood]

Heh.  Fuck off you sarky prick.

[Lantyssa]

Tough to do when deflated and flaccid...