Japan [Tag: Fucked]

[Sheepherder]

I wondered after the Hydrogen explosions at the tops of the buildings if perhaps the water in the pools themselves acted as "catalyst" for explosive pressures... similar to what happens when you explode a bomb underwater.  Water is uncompressable basically, but the walls of the pool are the opposite.  They can flex, compress, and fail when the water just translates the shockwave directly to them.  Also, there'd be some volumetric expansion as the water moves out of the way of the blast... and the only way to go is OUT, against the walls of the pool.

I'm trying to dig up some experiments where explosives were detonated just above a shallow pool.

Also, if the water in the SFP doesnt have enough impurities it's possible it could become superheated if not actively cooled.  This is the same effect as putting distilled water into a microwave and then suddenly adding an impurity or disturbing it... what happens??  It violently explodes.

Another possibility, the Hydrogen bubbles in the pool when the explosion happened had enough surface tension to explode within it... similar to some electrolysis experiments.  Producing yet another shockwave.

My expert opinion: busted shit in the coolant loop.  From the earthquake, from collapsing shit or from the explosion.  Any shockwave striking the (dry) floor or the water surface is liable to be transmitted through the pool (both walls and water) downwards and refocused (at least partially) into the cooling system.

The fact that they're resolved to use trucks instead of portable pumps spells it out quite clearly.  The distances are too great for most portable pumps to handle and even if they did the pressures wouldnt be enough.

Pressure has nothing to do with it.  Portable pumps don't flow enough water.

In analog electronics this expresses as noise, but in digital electronics they start spitting out garbage because there's no room for random errors.

Like a logic gate outputting both true and false states simultaneously.

I know you have some kind of fanboy fetishism going on with Japan and the awesomeness of its people, but calm down 'kay?

Your first clue should have been the part where he said he was hanging out in places where the Yakuza may decide to break your teeth on a whim.  Those establishments aren't exactly weeaboo friendly.

[Abagadro]

having some really close friends and family that still live there and live in the affected area.

I hope all your f/f are okay. The scenes I see are so incomprehensible that it's just heartbreaking. 

[Arthur_Parker]

Stuff about robots.

Given how many episodes of Discovery channel's "Mythbusters" I have watched where they rig up a car to be driven remotely, how hard would it be to remotely rig up a tank or helicopter with a fire hose attached to spray water on the rods, using a remote pilot by wire? Where the remote pilot is a safe distance away?

How has this not happened yet?

I had seen some commentators say things like, "Japan is the country of robots. How do they not have nuclear meltdown-fighting robots in there right now?".

I should probably have also posted this too.

Japan sends robots into Fukushima nuclear plant

The team working to contain the meltdown at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant now includes a robot. The machine, known as Monirobo ("Monitoring Robot"), was on the scene today, according to the Japanese newspaper Asahi Shimbun (in Japanese).

Monirobo is designed to operate at radiation levels too high for humans. The 1.5-metre robot runs on a pair of caterpillar tracks and has a manipulator arm for removing obstacles and collecting samples. Sensors include a radiation detector, 3D camera system and temperature and humidity sensors. It can be operated remotely from a distance of about a kilometre.

Monirobo weighs some 600 kilos and is limited to a speed of 2.4 kilometres per hour. It has to carry heavy shielding because many electronics, especially cameras, are highly vulnerable to the effects of radiation.

The robot was developed by Japan's Nuclear Safety Technology Centre in association with the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry after the Tokaimura nuclear accident in 1999 in which two workers died.

The machine now in use is Red Monirobo; a Yellow Monirobo, which has tools for collecting dust samples and sensors for flammable gas, is expected to be deployed within the next day or so.

A number of other robots were developed after the Tokaimura accident, but have not been adopted. Japan's leading expert on rescue robots, Satoshi Tadokoro, of International Rescue Systems Institute is quoted on the Center for Robot-Assisted Search and Rescue's site as saying this was because nuclear industry claimed that their plants were safe. More robots might reduce the need for human workers inthe danger area.

[Surlyboi]

having some really close friends and family that still live there and live in the affected area.

I hope all your f/f are okay. The scenes I see are so incomprehensible that it's just heartbreaking. 

With the exception of the food shortage, everybody in Tokyo's fine. There're still a few people that haven't checked in that lived in Rikuzentakata and Kesennuma. Thanks for the thoughts.

[Nyght]

If you have wondered why everybody seems to down on TEPCO consider this:

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031906-e.html

The equivalent of "We had a slight cooling malfunction, but, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine, we're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?

Edit: opps, wrong plant.. Thanks Arthur

[Arthur_Parker]

Um, that's Fukushima Daini, Fukushima Daiichi is this one http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031905-e.html

[Sir Fodder]

Damn, the western news coverage of the reactor situation is pathetic. The dousing operation currently underway is fucking riveting stuff but there is hardly any mentions in the west media, had to go to boingboing for a photo of the fire truck shooting water, pretty amazing stuff... Good stuff on NHK though, love the newsbabes, kick Foxes asses all over the place with the sober coverage and those killer accents ("dowshing" ).

[Ghambit]

I love how matter-of-fact, to the point, and non-condescending NHK is.  They assume the public isnt dumbfuck stupid.
I also love the fact that they still employ people to build killer scale models for them.  There's something about a good model, a knowledgeable person, and a nice pointy-stick that is just lost with digital versions.
Plus, they could sell those models when they're done at auction for a good cause.

[Arthur_Parker]

Tsunami of Tohoku Earthquake Before Wrecking the Coast

[Simond]

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/955222--the-star-in-japan-hideaki-akaiwa-must-keep-looking?bn=1

SHINOMAKI, JAPAN— If Hideaki Akaiwa’s wife asks him years from now if he still loves her, he’ll have a ready-made answer: Remember that time I put on a wetsuit, slipped into ice-cold black water, navigated broken glass, downed power lines and splintered timber, and spent days searching for you after the tsunami?

Akaiwa, 43, was away from home on Friday afternoon when a massive earthquake that lasted for four minutes rocked much of the coast. Thirty minutes after the ground stopped shaking, a tsunami swept up from the sea through Akaiwa’s hometown of Ishinomaki, killing hundreds and leaving homes submerged in up to 4 metres of wreckage-filled water.

Naturally, Akaiwa’s first thoughts were for his wife and mother. The tsunami struck at 2:46 p.m. and he had no idea where they might have been that afternoon.

When he reached the ravaged city of 162,000, it was a widespread disaster zone. Most houses were swamped in water and broken rubble stretched across the horizon.

Akaiwa sprang into action.

The avid sportsman — he met his wife 20 years ago surfing in a local bay — he looked emotionally and physically spent. He had a large backpack slung over his shoulders and wore a purple sweatshirt with camouflage work gloves and pants, which were wrapped with plastic bags secured by orange duct tape.

As he spoke, military trucks drove by and residents wearing rubber boots and soaked pants in the chilly afternoon air waded through flooded streets with bottles of drinking water. Soldiers here don’t walk through the streets so much as jog, knowing that elderly people who have been left alone for four or five days, some in freezing water, are probably near death.

As Japan’s military struggles to cope with the overwhelming job of rescuing tens of thousands of tsunami and earthquake victims, residents here like Akaiwa aren’t waiting for relief workers to arrive, especially considering Ishinomaki’s large elderly population. So locals are springing into action, commandeering boats and other equipment to locate and rescue their friends, family and neighbours.

Akaiwa found his wife on Saturday and a visitor remarked the reunion must have been an emotional one.

“She is very important for me,” Akaiwa said, advising an interpreter he wasn’t interested in answering more questions on the matter.

After his found his wife, it was back into the water to search for his mom.

He found her on Tuesday in her home. This isn’t a big city and that was the first place he thought to look, naturally, but the debris and flooded streets make any movement taxing.

“She was very much panicking,” Akaiwa said. “There were rushing waters all around still and she was trapped in the upper part of her house.”

Even with his family safe, Akaiwa continues to patrol the streets here on the lookout for other desperate tsunami survivors. In his red fanny pack, he carries half a bottle of tea, some water, two packages of cigarettes, a flashlight, Swiss army knife and a lighter.

“My supplies,” he said before he bounced onto his bike and sped away alongside a friend.

“I have to get back out and keep looking,” he said as he wheeled away.

Someone buy this man several drinks.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Platinum mancard

[Sheepherder]

Wetsuit makes a lot of difference.  Dry suit and dive woolies even more so, if you've got them.

[Sand]

So reports are trickling in that the radiation entered the food supply in milk and spinach. Surprising given how low they said the leaks were, and how quickly it seemed to have happened.
Also radioactive iodine found in Tokyo's drinking water, although the levels were said to be safe for human consumption.

TOKYO, March 19 (UPI) -- Radioactive iodine levels above Japan's allowable limit have been found in milk in a town 27 miles from the Fukushima nuclear plant, officials said Saturday.

Levels in tap water in Kawamata were below the limit, Kyodo News reported. But the level in milk raised questions about the safety of food and liquids in the area.

The government has also announced traces of radioactive iodine were found in Tokyo's drinking water, the Japanese government said Saturday.

The radioactive substance, said to be below levels dangerous to human health, was detected in Tochigi, Gunma, Niigata, Chiba and Saitama prefectures besides Tokyo, and cesium was found in Tochigi and Gunma, Kyodo News reported.

Tochigi, Gunma and Niigata border Fukushima Prefecture, site of the nuclear power plant crippled by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami.

In the town of Maebashi, 2.5 becquerels of iodine and 0.38 becquerel of cesium were seen Friday per kilogram of water, local authorities said. It was the first detection of the substances in the 20 years tap water has been tested.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2011/03/19/High-radiation-levels-in-some-Japan-milk/UPI-21451300550819/#ixzz1HAImf9ae

[Lantyssa]

Was the milk regularly tested before?

The one problem with heightened detection is that it also detects problems which were pre-existing, and (sometimes) falsely attributed to the event which caused the greater concern.

[Trippy]

Radiation dose chart from xkcd:

http://xkcd.com/radiation/

[Surlyboi]

Was just coming to link that chart. Great work by Munroe, particularly liked the bit about banana phones.

[Arthur_Parker]

New video of Fukushima

CNN has talk of using concrete at fuel pool 4, but not sure how reliable that is.

On Monday, an official with Japan's nuclear and industrial safety agency told reporters that tests are expected to be conducted in the afternoon on how to use what he called a "concrete pump engine."
The engine would pump a mix of mortar and water into the reactor's spent nuclear fuel pool and containment vessel, the official said. The pool contains nuclear fuel rods that could give off radioactive material, if exposed and overheated, while the containment vessel is a steel and concrete shell that insulates radioactive material inside.
While he did not indicate when or even if the concrete pump would be used, the official did say the target would be the plant's No. 4 reactor.

kyodonews also reporting efforts to move radioactive rubble.

Earlier Monday, members of the Self-Defense Forces and firefighters sprayed massive coolant water at the spent-fuel pools of the No. 3 and No. 4 reactors to lower the temperature in the fuel tanks from outside their damaged buildings.

The government is also preparing SDF tanks, to remove rubble emitting high-level radiation from around the reactors that has hampered water-spraying operations, as well as two German-made trucks with a concrete squeeze pump and a 50-meter arm to pour water from a higher point.

Edit not reliable at all.

(TEPCO) said it has no plans to use a concrete pump engine to place a mixture of mortar and water into the containment vessel and spent nuclear fuel pool at the No. 4 reactor. Instead, the pump would be used to pour only water. Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said earlier Monday that it expected to conduct tests on what it called a "concrete pump engine," which the agency initially said would pump a mix of mortar and water.

[Sand]

The government is also preparing SDF tanks, to remove rubble emitting high-level radiation from around the reactors that has hampered water-spraying operations,

Will they be remote control robot tanks? Because if so I want royalties.

[Arthur_Parker]

Bit bigger.



Source

[Chimpy]

Not to say that you links are wrong, but they HAVE been using a concrete boom-pumper truck as a "water cannon" for a number of days. (Just running water only through it).

There could be some mis-communication that makes people think they plan on using it to dump concrete even though it is pumping water.

[Sand]

Nope MSNBC started talking sand and concrete this morning as well.

Story said they were going to "try" and get the fuel out as best as possible. Then cover the entire site in concrete, whether they were successful on removing the fuel or not.

Im sure that will "never, ever" leak into the ground water supplies afterward. 

[Jeff Kelly]

The reactor core will not be contained by the containment indefinitely. If you cannot restart cooling, containment will breach at some point, that's nearly inevitable. Concrete, sand and other materials limit the amount of radiation that can leak from such a breach.

So it's a sensible precaution to requisition the equipment that might be needed in such a case, even if it isn't actually needed right now.

[KallDrexx]

Just saw scrolling text on Al Jazeera saying the power lines have been connected to all 6 reactors.

*edit*
Also the guardian is saying the death toll is over 18000 so far

[Jeff Kelly]

The interesting question is if there is still any equipment left that could use the power or if it is accessible under all the rubble and debris.

[KallDrexx]

No idea.  I can't find any other information anywhere on AJE or any other website. 

[Jeff Kelly]

We will find out soon enough

[Sir Fodder]

I stepped up from basic cable to extended in order to watch some NCAA b-ball games, haven't had the cable news channels for a couple years, I always hated them but it is just shocking how bad they are; wow what a pile of shit. Loud brassy bullshit caked in makeup and giant power hairdos, the truth is whoever is loudest/funniest/brassiest/sexiest/bullshittiest.

Someone should start a USA version of NHK- coverage that is sober, timely, and detailed, calm newsbabes that can conduct an enlightening conversation on meaningful topical matter (economics, fuel food supply, nuclear physics, etc) with bonus soothing final fantasy music during the weather.

[Hoax]

Did you not hear we are defunding NPR? I don't see that happening. Not in this America.

[Jeff Kelly]

A "nice little tidbit" currently on German news (which I'm entirely too lazy to look for an english source for).

"Tepco, owner of the Fukujima Daiichi plant, neglected to check and maintain backup generators and backup pumps for years and falsified maintenance records. Officials cannot even tell if the tsunami disabled the generators or if they even worked to begin with" (emphasis mine).

A dimension that usually gets ignored in the pro- vs anti-nuclear flamewar: How trustworthy and reliable are the owners of such plants?

[NiX]

The problem is TEPCO is known to be very shady. Mr. Burns "I'll block out the sun" type shady. It could happen in the West, but much less likely to be able to get away with threatening people until they stop poking around.

[Arthur_Parker]

Thermal Images

The guy posting them seems to be a muppet, I'm linking for the pics not because I think his comments make any form of sense.

[Jeff Kelly]

NiX, do you trust your corporations or your government to manage a quality and thoroughness of inspection and oversight necessary to prevent such things? With all of the "private public partnerships", back-room deals and lobbying going on and the track record government institutions have controlling businesses?

Because I don't trust mine - at all. Western or not doesn't make a difference. On the contrary until last week I'd expected the Japanese to perform much better in that respect. When I picture a Japanese executive he always has a bit of a Samurai in him - which is stereotypical, I know. I wouldn't even be surprised if they reported on a western corporation being caught with such bullshit, yet the fact that it is a Japanese company somehow startles me.

[NiX]

NiX, do you trust your corporations or your government to manage a quality and thoroughness of inspection and oversight necessary to prevent such things? With all of the "private public partnerships", back-room deals and lobbying going on and the track record government institutions have controlling businesses?

That's human nature. If it isn't someone pulling strings, there's going to be one guy who doesn't want to do all of his inspections or another guy who doesn't want to do anything at all.

Of course I don't care much for politics, so I don't share the same point of view and care very little about what you speak of.

[Teleku]

Because I don't trust mine - at all. Western or not doesn't make a difference. On the contrary until last week I'd expected the Japanese to perform much better in that respect. When I picture a Japanese executive he always has a bit of a Samurai in him - which is stereotypical, I know. I wouldn't even be surprised if they reported on a western corporation being caught with such bullshit, yet the fact that it is a Japanese company somehow startles me.

Yeah, thats definitely an incorrect stereotype.  Amongst many Japanese companies/executives, corruption is institutionalized to a point beyond some of the worst you see in the west.  The fact that their version of the Mafia operates openly and has public dealings with many corporations/politicians should give you insight into that.

The corruption thing is certainly a concern, but..... I just feel its a risk you have to take.  You do it with everything, its a fact of life.  Were certain chemical plants to blow up, or dams to fail, they could do more damage than most any nuclear meltdown scenario.  Yet we still need them, and we just hope the system is monitoring them as its suppose to. 

You have to trust in the regulations doing there job at some point, or else you may as well just get rid of them all and say fuck it, go Tea Party!   

[hal]

Is it time to say what does this mean on a global or local (to me) sence. Auto plants are shutting down because of lack of parts. Because we really need more peaple out of work. That they are gonna end up burying this in sand and concrete is a given yes? Another area that no one will live in for forever.