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Author Topic: Blood bowl resources/questions  (Read 75340 times)
Llyse
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Calvin and Hobbes are back to maul the fuck outta you.


Reply #70 on: January 27, 2011, 10:58:07 AM

I would just drop him and use a merc lineorc.

Save your kitty for a new blitzer.

Putting him on the line gives the opposing side 2 die blocks, a merc line orc does the save job of being a warm body.
Strazos
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Reply #71 on: January 27, 2011, 04:16:20 PM

Or, if you want to chance a single-die block...a single player with Dauntless who makes the roll (which usually happens).

If you make your Dauntless roll a single assist will let you roll two dice for the block and since your objective is to knock down that big guy you're hitting you shouldn't try to do it unassisted. I usually try to set up Dauntless blitzes with enough assists that even if I fail the roll I'll get a one-die regular block. So two assists on ST3 vs ST5 which is the usual scenario.

Yeah I know that, but was just trying to illustrate how it can be done fairly easily. Using the assist to get 2 dice was implied.

Fear the Backstab!
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Hoax
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l33t kiddie


Reply #72 on: January 27, 2011, 04:47:40 PM

I've got to make the call on the stupid -1 str blitzer. I only had enough dough to pick up a lineorc, so I'll definitely miss his blocking. On the one hand, I'd like to dump his marginal TV, on the other, having a player I really don't give a shit about, with block, on the los is an attractive alternative. I'll just hope his block and av9 keep him from being too much of an easy font of spp for you guys  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Depends on who you are playing, if they don't have block on their line I'd for sure keep the Blitzer on the line unless I knew the change in TV was the difference in having 100k inducements and having 80k which gets me nothing or something like that.  Everyone sets up their line so they get 2 die blocks anyway so having ST2 with block is probably better especially against a team that doesn't put guys with block on the line than having a ST3 no block.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Der Helm
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Reply #73 on: January 30, 2011, 06:59:33 PM

If you have a player with claw/frenzy/piling on (fun combo on a mino btw), can you prevent him from using the piling on skill after a block ?

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
lamaros
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Reply #74 on: January 30, 2011, 07:00:08 PM

If you have a player with claw/frenzy/piling on (fun combo on a mino btw), can you prevent him from using the piling on skill after a block ?

Yes. Just put it to ask in the settings.

Expect poison from the standing water.
Strazos
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Posts: 15515

Trading Cotton for Chalupas in 2014!


Reply #75 on: January 30, 2011, 07:04:48 PM

Folks should perhaps have Piling On, Juggernaut, Diving Tackle, Fend...possibly even Wrestle on "Ask."

Fear the Backstab!
"Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion
"Hell is other people." -Sartre
lamaros
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Reply #76 on: January 30, 2011, 07:23:33 PM

Folks should perhaps have Piling On, Juggernaut, Diving Tackle, Fend...possibly even Wrestle on "Ask."

Absolutly wrestle.

Expect poison from the standing water.
Der Helm
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Reply #77 on: January 30, 2011, 08:10:39 PM

If you have a player with claw/frenzy/piling on (fun combo on a mino btw), can you prevent him from using the piling on skill after a block ?

Yes. Just put it to ask in the settings.
Ah. Now I understand what those settings are for.  ACK!

This game has a worse UI than Eve (almost the same learning curve, though  awesome, for real )

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
ezrast
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WWW
Reply #78 on: February 04, 2011, 04:41:48 AM

So, assistant coaches and cheerleaders. The former gets you extra rerolls and the latter lets you not be molested by the fans, correct? Do they influence anything outside of kickoff events? Is there a clear superior choice?
Ice Cream Emperor
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Reply #79 on: February 04, 2011, 05:22:00 AM


They are completely identical in terms of their potential effects. A 6 on the kick-off table gives you a roll-off between the coaches that is modified by Cheerleaders. (It's 1d3 + # of cheerleaders + FAME) An 8 on the kick-off table gives you an identical roll-off in which you swap out Assistant Coaches for Cheerleaders.

Which one you want to have really just depends on the other coach -- but given the formula it seems like having 2+ more than your opponent gives you a much higher chance of getting the reroll, since the variance in the rest of the formula is so low. (1d3+1 vs. 1d3 gives a maximum gap of 3.) Of course one could conceivably get into a sort of Cheerleader arms race with other coaches, making the whole enterprise increasingly expensive.

--

And in case anyone is wondering wtf FAME is (and since I just spent time looking it up in the rules), it's a modifier that results from the number of fans each team has in attendance. Both teams roll 2d6 and add their Fan Factor, and whoever rolls higher gets a +1 FAME modifier. If you roll twice as high as your opponent you get a +2 modifier.

FAME affects both the cheerleader and assistant coach events as described above. It also affects the Throw A Rock and Pitch Invasion events -- in the case of a Pitch Invasion this can be a huge deal, since it increases the chance of a stun for each player, and a lopsided Pitch Invasion can easily decide the outcome of a game.

eldaec
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Reply #80 on: February 04, 2011, 03:26:03 PM

Is there a clear superior choice?

Yes. The clear superior choice is to save your gold and TV for something useful instead.

They both only increase the chance of getting a reroll on 5/36 kick-offs, usually by about a third. So maybe 2/36 kickoffs are giving you a reroll when they otherwise wouldn't.

Just save up for the right number of rerolls in the first place and stop messing about.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
proudft
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Reply #81 on: February 04, 2011, 05:02:27 PM

Yes. The clear superior choice is to save your gold and TV for something useful instead.

Yep - and the real reason the coaches/cheerleaders/FAME are kinda sucky is that they add directly to your TV, so they count as WOO USEFUL STUFF for inducement figuring instead of the sort of mediocre slight bonus that they are.

Note that FAME also increases your winnings at the end of the match, which I am not yet decided about.  That MIGHT be useful, but if you had to pay for it?  Math time, I suppose.

Second note - I am breaking my own guidelines on this for my halfling team (in a private league), so if you spy on my teams and wonder why I have cheerleaders, coaches, and FAME on the halflings, that's why. They're HALFLINGS.  Also, I haven't played them yet, so it may be a horrible mistake.  It's a theory I'm trying out.

« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 05:08:02 PM by proudft »
lamaros
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Reply #82 on: February 04, 2011, 05:39:30 PM

Theory with Halflings is to keep your TV low so you can get Deeproot and a Chef every game. Plus more if possible.

Also, I can't seem to get cash to transfer from my stack to inducements. Is there a trick I'm missing?

Edit again. http://www.cyanide-studio.com/forumBB/viewtopic.php?p=260555#p260555 explains it. Seems the general thing is you don't put money in if you're the lower TV player unless you put in enough to go over the TV difference. Which would be not very smart normally.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 06:29:24 PM by lamaros »

Expect poison from the standing water.
Comstar
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Reply #83 on: February 04, 2011, 07:25:02 PM

Ah ha! That explains why I couldn't get a Wizard in my last game - any money you move to petty cash INCREASES your TV by the same amount, so it's useless to try and add it to the inducement bonus, as that will then DECREASE by the same amount.

So in other words, any cash moved from the treasury to pertty cash, will not be added to your inducements, only replaced what you could have got in the first place. Petty cash ONLY helps if you spend the money to buy inducements INSTEAD of using the inducement money.

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Teleku
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Reply #84 on: February 04, 2011, 08:59:51 PM

Yes, and keep in mind, if you add another 100k from petty cash, your opponent will also gain 100k more inducements.

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eldaec
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Reply #85 on: February 05, 2011, 02:05:57 AM

Fame/Fan Factor isn't worth spending money on because the maths behind earning increases/decreases mean it will quickly normalise to a level determined by your win rate, no matter how much money you waste on the initial setting.

Petty Cash isn't worth spending money on because it is all bugged to fuck. If it worked, you'd use it occasionally to get that extra 10k you need to afford the star player or reroll you want.

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Ruvaldt
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Reply #86 on: February 05, 2011, 02:19:21 AM

I'm actually pretty happy about my initial fan factor investment, but it wasn't that large of an investment either.  FF used to be really useful to invest in because it heavily influenced your winnings at the end of a game, but is chiefly used for determining FAME now.  This goes on to help your kick-off event rolls, most of which I have won.  Honestly, if you've got a 970 team at team creation, investing 30 into FF and getting a better chance at kick-off events can give a nice edge at the beginning of a season with TV1000 teams that have very little FF and won't be getting inducements off of your 30 or 40 point investment anyway.

Cheerleaders and assistant coaches are pretty crap though.  I'd never bother with either.

"For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can." - Ernest Hemingway
Ice Cream Emperor
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Reply #87 on: February 05, 2011, 02:56:35 AM

Fame/Fan Factor isn't worth spending money on because the maths behind earning increases/decreases mean it will quickly normalise to a level determined by your win rate, no matter how much money you waste on the initial setting.

But as Ruvaldt points out, a relatively minor initial investment could pay off early on, which can obviously have a significant snowball effect. Winning games usually means more money, and more money could mean a key positional player a game earlier. That said, so could saving the money you spent on Fan Factor.

Personally I'd rather save for an Apothecary with any leftover cash, but some teams have no use for such things.
Ruvaldt
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Reply #88 on: February 05, 2011, 03:48:58 AM

I thought about that as well, but I made the bet that after the first game I would have enough to buy an apothecary regardless of whether I had to dip into cash from team creation or not.  Afterall, they're relatively cheap, and with some FF (and especially a win), you're likely to have at least 50k to buy it after that first game unless you get unlucky.

"For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can." - Ernest Hemingway
lamaros
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Reply #89 on: February 05, 2011, 06:32:29 AM

I've noticed that opening programs pretty much crashed BB when I'm in games. BBManager will crash it if opened when in a game, as will uTorrent and some others.

I don't know if this happens for others, but maybe if you make sure nothing is doing anything else in the background at all when you play you might not crash.

Expect poison from the standing water.
Falconeer
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Reply #90 on: February 05, 2011, 07:56:45 AM

I burned around 90k in coaches and cheerleaders, you foos! You should have written this stuff months ago! I am gonna fire them all, but you neckbeards owe me 90k!

eldaec
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Reply #91 on: February 05, 2011, 10:43:05 AM

Note that FAME also increases your winnings at the end of the match, which I am not yet decided about.  That MIGHT be useful, but if you had to pay for it?  Math time, I suppose.

Just on this specific point, remember FAME is almost always 0 or +1, very occaisonally +2. Fan factor (the thing you can buy, and which normalises according to win rate), only contributes to deciding whether fame is +1 or 0.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Ice Cream Emperor
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Reply #92 on: February 05, 2011, 05:06:37 PM

Note that FAME also increases your winnings at the end of the match, which I am not yet decided about.  That MIGHT be useful, but if you had to pay for it?  Math time, I suppose.

Just on this specific point, remember FAME is almost always 0 or +1, very occaisonally +2. Fan factor (the thing you can buy, and which normalises according to win rate), only contributes to deciding whether fame is +1 or 0.

Yay, logic puzzles.

Right, winning the FAME roll means an extra 10k or sometimes 20k of winnings. So if you spend 30k on 3 Fan Factor to start, this needs to win you more than three FAME rolls to break even (well, not exactly, see the table below.) A +3 on a 2d6 roll is pretty significant -- I don't know the math but looking at a table of probabilities I'm arbitrarily guessing it increases your chances of winning +1 FAME by something like 25% (from 50 -> 75%). In case this is too generous we will ignore the increased probability of getting +2 FAME.

This advantage will perpetuate up until the point where FAME normalization kicks in.

So in a scenario where you win all your games, it goes something like:

Game 1: +2.5k winnings, FAME advantage is maintained 99.5% of the time (just don't roll a 3.)
Game 2: +2.5k winnings, FAME advantage is maintained 98% of the time (4+)
Game 3: +2.5k winnings, FAME advantage is maintained 95% of the time (5+)
Game 4: +2.5k winnings, FAME advantage is maintained 90% of the time.
Game 5: +2.5k winnings, FAME advantage is under threat 83% of the time.

So at this point you're starting to get a significant chance of losing ground in the Fan Factor race, and you have only recouped half of your initial investment. Even if my assumption above is poor and a +3 on a 2d6 actually guarantees a victory 100% of the time, it takes 6 games to pay itself back, by which point even a losing team has already earned an average of 210k in non-FAME-based winnings.

I am guessing that in most scenarios -- sure you aren't likely to win all the time, but other teams lose too and if their Fan Factor doesn't go up then your gap with them remains just as significant -- an intiial investment of 30k in Fan Factor probably does pay itself off over, say, a 10-game season. But unless it actually helps you win those games you're probably way better off saving that 30k to get an apothecary one game earlier.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 05:22:33 PM by Ice Cream Emperor »
eldaec
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Reply #93 on: February 07, 2011, 03:04:33 PM

In other words, don't spend money on fan factor unless you plan to play your league in 2005.

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"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Cadaverine
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Reply #94 on: February 08, 2011, 01:46:55 AM

So, I've been futzing around with playing a Dark Elf team, and was wondering what those of you who have one, and know what the hell you're doing would suggest for a starting line-up?  I started a single player game, and ended up with a Runner, 4x Blitzers, and 6 Linemen so I could afford a re-roll, and an apothecary.  Would I be better served with picking up an assassin(s)/witch elves, and wait on the re-roll, or the apothecary, depending on inducements to fill those holes?

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lamaros
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Reply #95 on: February 08, 2011, 02:01:48 AM

I'd go with that lineup but no apoth and two rerolls.

Or go 2 WE, 4 Blitzers, 1 Assassin, 1 Runner and 3 Linemen and 0 rerolls... It's fun!

Expect poison from the standing water.
Ice Cream Emperor
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Reply #96 on: February 08, 2011, 02:52:12 AM


I usually start with 2 rerolls, a WE, three blitzers, and the rest linemen. They do get pretty cheap rerolls, so it's not as important to start with 3+. Only 1 reroll feels really thin to me, though, since you aren't going to want to spend the money on more until you fill out your lineup a bit.
Megrim
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Reply #97 on: February 08, 2011, 05:13:27 AM

So, I've been futzing around with playing a Dark Elf team, and was wondering what those of you who have one, and know what the hell you're doing would suggest for a starting line-up?  I started a single player game, and ended up with a Runner, 4x Blitzers, and 6 Linemen so I could afford a re-roll, and an apothecary.  Would I be better served with picking up an assassin(s)/witch elves, and wait on the re-roll, or the apothecary, depending on inducements to fill those holes?

The default start is six Lineelfs, four Blitzers, one Runner and 2xrr with the first 50k winnings going to an apoc. Then you can branch out into either a third rr, another Runner or the positionals of your choice (typically Witches). If you go the 2x Witch route, this gets you six players with Blodge (Block + Dodge), minimizes your av7 (at three players on the pitch at any one time) and nets you a bench of two Lineelfs (provided no-one died and/or got cut). This start will incline you strongly towards playing a running game - arguably something the DE excel at, while allowing you to focus on developing your key players (Blitzers and Witches) into what is thought to be the best defensive and counter-attacking team in the game.

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eldaec
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Reply #98 on: February 09, 2011, 11:50:58 AM

So, I've been futzing around with playing a Dark Elf team, and was wondering what those of you who have one, and know what the hell you're doing would suggest for a starting line-up?  I started a single player game, and ended up with a Runner, 4x Blitzers, and 6 Linemen so I could afford a re-roll, and an apothecary.  Would I be better served with picking up an assassin(s)/witch elves, and wait on the re-roll, or the apothecary, depending on inducements to fill those holes?

Assassins are a luxury you simply can't afford at 1000TV.

Also one reroll is not enough rerolls, zero rerolls is insane. Not least because they cost double on an experienced team.

6 Line
1 Runner
4 Blitz
2rr

...is probably the best starting lineup as Megrim suggests.

7 line
1 witch
3 Blitzers or 2 and a runner
2 rr

...might work if you really really want a witch elf, but I'd never start without rerolls.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
lamaros
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Reply #99 on: February 09, 2011, 03:26:34 PM

Play without rerolls! It will make you learn good habits.

Expect poison from the standing water.
Kalle
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Reply #100 on: February 09, 2011, 03:42:34 PM

Play without rerolls! It will make you learn good habits.

Like the habit of never starting a team without rerolls!
Llyse
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Calvin and Hobbes are back to maul the fuck outta you.


Reply #101 on: February 09, 2011, 06:36:30 PM

Play without rerolls! It will make you learn good habits.

Like the habit of never starting a team without rerolls!

This.  awesome, for real

Playing 0 rerolls won't let you beat me Lamaros  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

lamaros
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Reply #102 on: February 09, 2011, 06:46:14 PM

My Rat Ogre eating your ghouls and werewolves might, though.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

Expect poison from the standing water.
Ice Cream Emperor
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Reply #103 on: February 10, 2011, 01:13:37 AM


Just came across this post over at the BBTactics forums. Simple stuff but presented very clearly.

The author has impressed me with his cold-blooded/analytical Khemri team reports, and the basic rules laid out in the post are a useful primer/reminder for anyone trying to figure out what keeps going wrong.
Sjofn
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Reply #104 on: April 18, 2011, 01:53:16 AM

I am bumping this ancient thread just to say I finally played Blood Bowl. It's a headachey game, but I may wind up liking it. I won my first game versus the medium difficulty computer, but I am a LONG way from being able to deal with 2 minute turns, given I almost ran out of time a couple of times with the four minute turns.  DRILLING AND WOMANLINESS

I JUST WANTED TO SHARE GUYS OKAY

How do people play without block? I am pretty sure I would not be able to do it without wanting to weep.

God Save the Horn Players
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