Cracks starting to show?

[Paelos]

That was essentially my final straw as well.  I had two guilds implode on me in a month, and I had no desire to try to find another.

Honestly, after a game being out for 5 years, I think that's a normal response. Blizzard shouldn't have tinkered so much with the social aspects of their game. At it's very core, MMOGs are about playing with your friends, regardless of skill level.

[Ingmar]

Just to reiterate, you can totally do it now. Hell, we finished ZA with two people doing ~7-8k and ~6-7k dps last night. Had some wipes, and obviously didn't beat any timers, but it is totally possible to play with your perhaps-not-super-achieving friends now it seems.

[Paelos]

Yeah if I could get them to come back 

[Rokal]

Maybe they're just waiting for a personal apology too 

[Paelos]

Maybe they're just waiting for a personal apology too 

Nah they moved on with their lives. Two are having a baby, two got married, and the rest tried to create a conglomerate guild with a bunch of douchebags I'd rather stab in the face than join. But you can't do anything with them if you're not in the guild because of the stupid guild system.

[Sjofn]

Sure you can. Only need three people from the guild in a group for it to count as a guild group. Not sure on the number for raiding now, though.

[Rendakor]

Raiding is still 8. 

[Paelos]

And there-in lies the issue.

[Sjofn]

That's still two free slots. Maybe they just don't like you that much. 

[Paelos]

That's still two free slots. Maybe they just don't like you that much. 

It's likely. Also, they'd want me to dps because tanks usually set up the runs.

[Ingmar]

I've been shocked by how not-boring fury is now that they added a couple more buttons, if that helps.

[Azazel]

Just to reiterate, you can totally do it now. Hell, we finished ZA with two people doing ~7-8k and ~6-7k dps last night. Had some wipes, and obviously didn't beat any timers, but it is totally possible to play with your perhaps-not-super-achieving friends now it seems.

Maybe they're just waiting for a personal apology too 

Should they have been waiting on the edges of their seats, breathlessly watching Blizzard/Blue/WoW for updates that they can now play in their preferred manner again? It's June. After 6-odd months off a MMO, it's very easy to feel indifference about it, regardless of how long you played. Usually the first thing friends tell me (and I notice myself after finishing a MMO-stint) is just how much fucking time there is in the day to do other things in life and get things done.

[Ingmar]

Did either of us suggest they should have been?

[caladein]

But you can't do anything with them if you're not in the guild because of the stupid guild system.

Why?  The only thing you need to be in a raid guild group at this point is if you're going for achievements (the challenge is only one boss/week).  Characters from outside the guild can still use cauldrons, feasts, and take summons/rezzes.

At least with my guild, our alt runs will often have enough alts/friends from outside the guild and PUGs to knock it off from being a guild run for a few bosses.

[Azazel]

Did either of us suggest they should have been?

It was implied in both posts. "yo, you can come back now!"

[Ingmar]

Did either of us suggest they should have been?

It was implied in both posts. "yo, you can come back now!"

If people were following it I would hardly need to tell them. 

[Paelos]

I'm following it, but I'm not coming back until I see the response to 4.2 and the associated content.

[luckton]

I'm following it, but I'm not coming back until I see the response to 4.2 and the associated content.

I'm kinda in the same boat...playing Rift here still, and it's very refreshing, but a part of me just doesn't seem to want to totally give up WoW just yet.  Once gear's easier to obtain, heroics calm down and I feel like I'm playing Wrath again, I may come back...

...except Rift's bringing AddOn support to 1.3 the same day 

[Rokal]

Funny, I didn't even notice Rift had no add-on support. The default UI is really top-notch/customizable.

[Soulflame]

If Rift had something like Recount built in, and if Trion would do something with the mostly awful AH interface, I'd be pretty happy.

[Rendakor]

If Rift had something like Recount built in, and if Trion would do something with the mostly awful AH interface, I'd be pretty happy.

A thousand times this.

[luckton]

If Rift had something like Recount built in, and if Trion would do something with the mostly awful AH interface, I'd be pretty happy.

A thousand times this.

Six years later the default AH UI from Bliz for WoW finally got decent.  You can't expect these games that try to appeal to a mass audience to have buttons, gizmos and settings out the wazoo right off the bat.  It would be a lot of overhead, and would either confuse people or piss them off because something's not exactly the way they want it (example: I want the Buyout button placed here!)

That's why you let the community do shit through AddOns/reskins.  Let people reconfigure, experiment and push your shit as far as it can and see what happens.

[Threash]

If Rift had something like Recount built in, and if Trion would do something with the mostly awful AH interface, I'd be pretty happy.

Addons coming next patch.

[caladein]

The combat log and any character info outside of buffs isn't exposed so Recount is very out of the cards.

The assumption is that it'll get opened up down the road, but right now we're talking more LotRO AddOns/Skins than what's available in WoW.

[Merusk]

That assumption would be a great divergence from what was promised in Beta.   The few threads I saw about addons all promised they wouldn't promote anything that encouraged addons like recount due to much hue and cry of "fuck that recount shit, if it's in I'm out" by the populace.

[luckton]

That assumption would be a great divergence from what was promised in Beta.   The few threads I saw about addons all promised they wouldn't promote anything that encouraged addons like recount due to much hue and cry of "fuck that recount shit, if it's in I'm out" by the populace.

Vocal minority.  I don't need an addon to tell me how much your suck or not. 

[Fordel]

No, but the add on proves it.


That was the major difference between no-recount WoW and recount WoW. It's a lot harder to ignore how shitty everyone is when your top DPS guy is doing 2-3xs the DPS of the next 4 guys in line.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Actually without recount it's pretty hard to tell when someone in a group is dps'ing badly. Unless they are blatently spamming a shitty spell or standing around with a thumb up their ass, it's hard to distinguish good button mashing from bad.  When I thank in wow I can tell when things aren't dying quick enough but without recount it's virtually impossible to tell why.  Did they buff the dungeon? Is it Really hard? Is the mage doing less dps than the tank?

Some people want to complain about those who use recount as it is often the tool of the elitest. Personally though, if I'm gonna be doing a dungeon at half the pace I could be, just because the hunter cant be assed to do anything but auto-shot then call me elitest.

[Paelos]

The majority of people that are against better, clearer information are those with something to hide.

[luckton]

The majority of people that are against better, clearer information are those with something to hide.

Agreed.  In cases where addons are being used to filter out bad players when forming PUG activities is about the only block that I'll give anti-addon people a place to stand on.  But even in those cases, it's probably better for both the PUGger and the leader to not have grouped at all.

[SurfD]

The only real issue I have ever had with recount is not what it does, but the number of people who simply dont know how to use it properly (the "spam recount after every trash pack guy comes in a very close second").  My biggest pet peeve is the people who have recount set to only show the raw DPS number, and love to link that to show how "leet" they are.  Of course, when you link the Damage Done info, which has their uber dps somewhere just above the healers because they blew all their cooldowns 10 seconds in and then died in the fire, it is usually good for a laugh (and hopefully a quick replacement), but still.

[Merusk]

Even raid leaders fall for that bullshit.  In Ulduar/ Early ICC I was told I wasn't pulling enough DPS and I consistently pointed to the "Damage Done" where I was #3 or 4 and asked exactly how they'd like to resolve that with me being #6 or 7 on the dps chart.  The answer was, "damage dealt doesn't matter, because once the fight is figured out DPS rankings will match damage done, so you have to do more dps."

I just rolled my eyes and kept on going.

[Fordel]

Your raid leader sounds retarded.


Also no one wants to DPS peen the Moonkin that is allowed to full tilt AE on Onxyia Whelps. 

[Rendakor]

The combat log and any character info outside of buffs isn't exposed so Recount is very out of the cards.

The assumption is that it'll get opened up down the road, but right now we're talking more LotRO AddOns/Skins than what's available in WoW.

Um, what? ACT has been working in Rift since the beta; someone is likely to have an in-game solution ready to go once this goes live.

[caladein]

Rift dumping its combat log live to a text file that can be parsed by an external program is very different from in-game mods having access to it via an API.  It's very unlikely that they would allow for backdoor access to it, which would open up many large cans of worms, without or instead of just adding in the API calls.

Which they might, it's still very work-in-progress (cross-session storage in as of yesterday afternoon!).  They could just as easily add in everything besides the combat log if they wanted to exclude Recount/BigWigs/WitchHunt-clones.