Hi-Rez buys Tribes IP; plans MMO

[Malakili]

Found a bunch of information about loadouts here: http://forum.globalagendagame.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=234&t=42058

 

[Mrbloodworth]

"Unlocking... good items"?!  WTF have they done to my Tribes.

I really do not think this is the case.

[Malakili]

"Unlocking... good items"?!  WTF have they done to my Tribes.

I really do not think this is the case.

It just seems like you'll be unlocking loadouts, not weapons a with stats or anything like GA.  But still, this switch to a loadout style (class based almost), seems iffy to me.  Two gun limit is sketchy enough as it is without Hi-Rez limiting me to whichever 2 per loadout they feel is good.

[Mrbloodworth]

Its 4 weapons/devices per loadout. I dunno, I don't really share your concern. It would be nice to mix and match as you will, but, eh, this isn't so bad.

[Dren]

"Unlocking... good items"?!  WTF have they done to my Tribes.

I really do not think this is the case.

Don't take what I wrote as the way the game will be.  I just stated how GA does it and guessed they would be offering 2x whatever is important in the game (as somebody already stated.)  I did find it odd that they would provide boosters in a game like this though.  It didn't make sense to me either.  The VIP system works fine and basically replaces the "buy a box" scenario.  You just get to buy the box after you decide you like the game.  The rest I imagined would be like TF2.  Buy silly stuff you think is cool, but won't impact gameplay.  I dunno.

[Malakili]

"Unlocking... good items"?!  WTF have they done to my Tribes.

I really do not think this is the case.

Don't take what I wrote as the way the game will be.  I just stated how GA does it and guessed they would be offering 2x whatever is important in the game (as somebody already stated.)  I did find it odd that they would provide boosters in a game like this though.  It didn't make sense to me either.  The VIP system works fine and basically replaces the "buy a box" scenario.  You just get to buy the box after you decide you like the game.  The rest I imagined would be like TF2.  Buy silly stuff you think is cool, but won't impact gameplay.  I dunno.

You will buy loadouts from what they've said.  I'm not sure what will be free and which you will have to buy.  It looks like you don't edit them at all, you just buy it and then you can use it.  A few posts up I linked the loadouts.   Maybe its better to think of them kind of as classes of a sort.

[Dren]

You will buy loadouts from what they've said.  I'm not sure what will be free and which you will have to buy.  It looks like you don't edit them at all, you just buy it and then you can use it.  A few posts up I linked the loadouts.   Maybe its better to think of them kind of as classes of a sort.

I can buy that, but I wouldn't want loadouts to be time dependent.  Once I buy them, I want to keep them.  I don't think "booster" is being used in Tribes anywhere even close to how it is used in GA.

[Ingmar]

I don't really share your concern.

You never do. 

[caladein]

I can buy that, but I wouldn't want loadouts to be time dependent.

My understanding is that if you buy a loadout you'll always have access to it but that they're offering rotating sets of free loadouts on a weekly basis.

[Ice Cream Emperor]

Bleh, those loadouts look way too specialized -- but of course that makes sense, if they want people to buy/'unlock' them. Somehow I am guessing there will not be energy packs lying around on the map, either.

On the other hand, the blink pack sounds pretty awesome.

[Brennik]

There's more info on the loadouts and how you unlock them at that same forum: http://forum.globalagendagame.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=234&t=37698.

So something along the lines of exp (and pay-for-double-exp boosters like GA) for loadout unlocks and then tokens and in-game money for... what?

[Mrbloodworth]

Customization?

[01101010]

Fuck it... I'll say it: Hats!

[Mrbloodworth]

There are a few forum posts in the set that have already been posted that expand on the thinking at the studio.

Why make the game free-to-play?

Why Loadouts?

[Malakili]

There are a few forum posts in the set that have already been posted that expand on the thinking at the studio.

Why make the game free-to-play?

Why Loadouts?

Why Loadouts? Because we think the general free to play audience is too stupid to understand customizing their kits. 

[Malakili]

http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16746524#post16746524

Eek.

[Surlyboi]

It's TW. They always were the meatheads of Tribes players.

[DLRiley]

http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=629607&page=424
fun times.

[MahrinSkel]

The one point that really makes me go "WTF?" is the way that each loadout is *extremely* specialized (2 weapons?  Really?), and you're going to have to pay if you want to open most of them.  Forget how much that annoys me as a former hardcore Tribes player: It's fucking stupid design.  It's superficially in accordance with F2P, because newbies will find that they are getting *raped* by people that are not only far more experienced than them, but are using the loadouts that are the best at countering the freebies.

And it's fucking stupid design because it will make the game *extremely* hostile to newbies, from day one rather than after the population has been concentrating towards the skilled as is normal in an FPS.  "Don't bother even trying T:A without buying the full class pack first" will quickly become "Don't even bother."

I could live with different skiing dynamics, just to have a new game where I could really *fly*.  But fuck this noise. T:A just dropped off my list.

--Dave

[Malakili]

I also noticed regenerating health, that is going to be brutal for newbies as well.  That skilled player is now going to kill new people and instead of getting widdled down take his ammo that he drops, and regen his health.

Edit to add, someone put up a video of some skiing, looks a little better than anticipated based on previous reporting, still a tad slow, but pretty smooth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBAYt3N2tI

[MahrinSkel]

Edit to add, someone put up a video of some skiing, looks a little better than anticipated based on previous reporting, still a tad slow, but pretty smooth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBAYt3N2tI

See, that video makes me nostalgic for the old days of skiing, before it became all about the extreme acceleration maneuvers from discjumping.  I can live with that change, even with the way that you can apparently now change direction mid-air without using energy (used to be a delicate tradeoff between wasting potential energy to change direction or losing your line, possibly even pancaking).  But the load-out thing really annoys me.

--Dave

[Malakili]

Edit to add, someone put up a video of some skiing, looks a little better than anticipated based on previous reporting, still a tad slow, but pretty smooth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBAYt3N2tI

See, that video makes me nostalgic for the old days of skiing, before it became all about the extreme acceleration maneuvers from discjumping.  I can live with that change, even with the way that you can apparently now change direction mid-air without using energy (used to be a delicate tradeoff between wasting potential energy to change direction or losing your line, possibly even pancaking).  But the load-out thing really annoys me.

--Dave

You can still gain a boost by discjumping from what I understand, but it is capped and you lose the acceleration from it quickly, so its definitely been intentionally toned way down.

The load out thing is sketchy, no doubt.  I really hate how every shooter these days does things like this.   It seems like a business choice more than anything.  I can't imagine they would've possibly come to this design decision if this was just a 50 bucks out of the box title.

[Sheepherder]

I also noticed regenerating health, that is going to be brutal for newbies as well.  That skilled player is now going to kill new people and instead of getting widdled down take his ammo that he drops, and regen his health.

Regenerating health tends to favour newbies.

[Ice Cream Emperor]

Well if you respawn with your loadout then full health is just a ctrl+k away.

[Sheepherder]

That's not a counter-argument inasmuch as it is a description of a situationally useful basic feature.

[Malakili]

I also noticed regenerating health, that is going to be brutal for newbies as well.  That skilled player is now going to kill new people and instead of getting widdled down take his ammo that he drops, and regen his health.

Regenerating health tends to favour newbies.

Does it really though?  It does in singe player campaigns where the AI won't finish you off.  But in multiplayer, a good player is going to finish you and end up back and full HP.  Not to mention in a movement oriented game like Tribes trying to run from someone better than you is just giving them a free kill.

[Sheepherder]

The alternatives, if you have healing in the game at all; is to make the player a medic in some fashion, health pickups, or permanent healing stations.  Medics favour coordination and teamwork.  Health pickups and healing stations favour people who have memorized the map layout.  Regeneration favours the person who knows how to duck behind a big rock.

I think it should be pretty clear which method punishes the new guy the least, based on which one uses the the most basic shooter skill to employ effectively.

[Malakili]

The alternatives, if you have healing in the game at all; is to make the player a medic in some fashion, health pickups, or permanent healing stations.  Medics favour coordination and teamwork.  Health pickups and healing stations favour people who have memorized the map layout.  Regeneration favours the person who knows how to duck behind a big rock.

I think it should be pretty clear which method punishes the new guy the least, based on which one uses the the most basic shooter skill to employ effectively.

One use health kits as part of a loadout seemed ok in Tribes previously.  Healthkits were pretty rare on those maps, if they existed at all.  Repair kits existed so you weren't hosed when all of your stations when down, but you basically just didn't heal all that much, and I think that was fine.  This seems like one of those things that made a lot of sense of pacing single player campaigns that has been adopted by multiplayer games without enough thought.  Then again, this is why I play hardcore mode in all the games that have it, its just a shit mechanic for mutliplayer shooters and screws with pacing way too much.

[Ice Cream Emperor]

Yeah, they should add some sort of... pack... that repairs... stuff.

(Edit: whoops, crosspost.)

[Malakili]

Good news: http://www.reddit.com/r/Tribes/comments/lfr0t/hirez_responds_to_speedcap_oob_and_loadout/

Looks like some of the things we've been worried about (speed cap, health regen) will have server settings which can be changed.  My guess is there will be a bunch of "classic" servers which run settings to bring the game closer to the originals.

[Mrbloodworth]

Most info right now has been based on clients that are not connected to servers, people have been using console commands to enter the game client and load maps. Most rants I have read are based on this, and for that reason I haven't paid attention to. Running around on a map is not the same as playing a server connected game, as most game logic is server side.

[Malakili]

Beta starts Friday, invites are out.  I am in (which I am allowed to say per the NDA), but I can't say much more than that.  Will certainly report as soon as allowed.

[Fordel]

The alternatives, if you have healing in the game at all; is to make the player a medic in some fashion, health pickups, or permanent healing stations.  Medics favour coordination and teamwork.  Health pickups and healing stations favour people who have memorized the map layout.  Regeneration favours the person who knows how to duck behind a big rock.

I think it should be pretty clear which method punishes the new guy the least, based on which one uses the the most basic shooter skill to employ effectively.

Tribes doesn't use item spawns like most FPS games. You don't go down the third hallway on the 2nd level to grab the rocket launcher.

Tribes has Permanent, Mobile and Temporary loadout stations, every player spawns with a health pack and you can take a loadout that has a repair pack which heals people and fixes broken stuff. The maintenance and control of your bases loadout stations and the disabling of enemy stations is a key part of most Tribe matches.


Staying alive in general isn't really a huge concern though, as something like 98% of Tribes Matches are objective driven (with the overwhelming majority being CTF games in my experience). Like if your a runner or a retriever, after a successful cap or return, you just suicide to get back to base for a fresh loadout.

[MahrinSkel]

On T1 Base to Base/Broadside (a map with two floating bases within grenade launcher and mortar range of each other) my go-to opening strategy was to launch myself from the top of one base to the "porch" of the other spitting grenades and mines from my default load as fast as possible, in order to drive the enemy heavies off the porch so they couldn't grenade and mortar our base.  Even if I survived the drop, my own grenades and mines would kill me, and I'd just respawn with new grenades and mines and do it again.  Only when I spawned right next to an inventory station would I get any equipment that wasn't default.

Tribes *should* be all about fast, furious action, where your own life is valued in proportion to how long it will take you to go from your spawn point to somewhere useful (and since skiing reduces that time, not very much).  Slow it down and introduce "valuable" equipment and you are fucking with the magic.

--Dave

[Sheepherder]

Tribes doesn't use item spawns like most FPS games. You don't go down the third hallway on the 2nd level to grab the rocket launcher.

That's what I figured.  It's still more or less the same thing though, it's one less metagame concept that newbies need to learn.