Cataclysm: Preparing For Patch 4.0.1

[kildorn]

I understand they are trying to get more folks to play, but I think they've made the game too easy.  This coming from a casual grouper non-raider. 
I like the talent changes (though my prot pally out damages my marksman hunter), but the mobs are all too easy to kill. 

Challenging at what level?

At 80, nothing's a challenge once you have raid gear and are effectively leveled way past 80. At 10, things can be a challenge if you're solo and not using any twinked out gear (at that point, multi pulls are a bitch), and while leveling it's hard to make something that challenges a tank type character and won't instantly murder a priest or mage. About the only way to make a mob that's mean to melee instead of casters are.. Defias Pillagers <3

[Ratman_tf]

If they're trying to get more people to play, then it makes sense to make it "too easy" for those of us playing already.  Those who aren't playing stay away because of general principle, they dislike the look or it takes "too fucking" long to level.  Easier mobs = level up asap.

It'll scale as they hit Outlands and then Northrend.  Early reports of the 80-85 zones were saying it's going to be more difficult for those of us already playing, too.  So I wouldn't worry that the whole game's going ez-mode.  Just the parts where there's no people so you want to move everyone through it.

[Create level 80 character]

[Merusk]

Brilliant.  Yes, just chuck all the old content and your game has 5 levels for the new players.  Works great for a PVP game, not so much for a PvE game.

[ezrast]

When it comes to quest grinding, there is no too easy. Teleport me straight to every quest location, give me a chain lightning cannon that one-shots every quest mob, I don't care. I just want that shit over with so I can get to the parts of the game that are interesting. Maybe if they put it on enough rails I can stand to level a non-instant-dungeon-queuing DPS again.

I dislike all the phasing on principle, but nobody groups for quests for more than five seconds anyway so I don't even care.

In case you wanted to know my terrible opinion.

[01101010]

Do we actually have an issue with Bliz making it easier to get to the fun part? Didn't we rail against WAR for the very reason it was too much grind to get to the fun? Besides, I am very interested in the new scenery incoming and half interested in the goblin race which makes the lower levels seem perfect to wet my curiosity but I certainly do not want to spend too much time getting through the suck, just enough to look around and marvel and then move on.

[Ratman_tf]

There are three main portions of WoW. The 1-80 leveling game, the raiding and the PvP. With some crossover, but not much. For someone who wants to raid, the 1-80 game is irrelevant, and a time sink. For the leveler, the 80's raid game is irrelevant content. For the PvPer, both are a means to an end, getting to the PvP. Making leveling easier is a band aid solution for the guy who just wants to raid with his buddies. Why is he forced to play a game he has no interest in to get to the good part? IF a PvPer wants to run Eye of the Storm, why is he forced to PvE at all? For a leveler, why is he saddled with dumb PvP balance issues when he just wants to konk ogres over the head in Arathi Highlands?

[Rendakor]

I think most people like at least two of the three portions, but that's just my experience.

[WindupAtheist]

So will I need to do a bunch of sixty-levels-lower shit on my main in order to avoid being out of phase with newer characters everywhere? If I level through zones A, B, and C will I be forever out of phase with anyone who leveled through X, Y, and Z instead?

[Fordel]

So will I need to do a bunch of sixty-levels-lower shit on my main in order to avoid being out of phase with newer characters everywhere? If I level through zones A, B, and C will I be forever out of phase with anyone who leveled through X, Y, and Z instead?

No.

[Ratman_tf]

I think most people like at least two of the three portions, but that's just my experience.

Sure, but I think most tend to focus on one aspect at a time. And the three portions are usually at odds with each other. Even more in Cata, it sounds like.

[Lantyssa]

I now feel obliged to point out Guild Wars solved this long ago.  You can PvP right away, you can get to the endgame quickly (Prophecies less so, but doable), and you can do nothing but run dungeons once there.  And instances are based on the leader.

[Fordel]

Guild Wars solved a lot of problems really.

[Chimpy]

Guild Wars solved a lot of problems really.

Except how to jump.

[Fordel]

Fuck, that still bothers me waaay more then it should.



"I AM PRESSING THE SPACE BAR, WHY AM I NOT DOING ANYTHING ARRGH  "

[Zetor]

It's making you autorun to the enemy, duh.   Actually GW's UI is kind of... annoying at times (hey, how do I hotkey shift/ctrl/alt-12345?), that's its greatest weakness imo.

Other than that, it was [and is!] a game waaaaaaay ahead of its time. Static health pools? No gear gap? Flat power curve skills that are still fun to play around with? Companions? This is all heresy!

[Fordel]

I never found a need to hotkey anything beyond the defaults in GWs, you only had 8 abilities to deal with, one was probably the rez signet, a couple for self buff/heals then 1-5 as your attack'ish stuff or whatever.


Don't forget no finite mana!

[caladein]

I understand they are trying to get more folks to play, but I think they've made the game too easy.  This coming from a casual grouper non-raider. 
I like the talent changes (though my prot pally out damages my marksman hunter), but the mobs are all too easy to kill.

Are you talking about 80+?  The first two zones are completely different from the rest, mainly because they need to work for people in Item Levels from ~280 to ~180.

As for your Prot Paladin, yeah... tank hybrids are pretty Robot Jesus for a long time.

[Zetor]

I never found a need to hotkey anything beyond the defaults in GWs, you only had 8 abilities to deal with, one was probably the rez signet, a couple for self buff/heals then 1-5 as your attack'ish stuff or whatever.

Don't forget no finite mana!

This was the case for me for most of GW, but micromanaging hero abilities (without having to click them) and efficient weapon swaps (for pvp mostly) really need a lot of extra hotkeys. It's not really a dealbreaker, was just sorta annoying.

As for no finite mana... WAR?  

[Abelian75]

Brilliant.  Yes, just chuck all the old content and your game has 5 levels for the new players.  Works great for a PVP game, not so much for a PvE game.

Well, they sorta DID chuck all the old content. :)  And they had to... it sucked ass.

Regarding the ez-mode stuff, I actually disagree and think it is "harder" now at lower levels in the way that matters.  Sure, it is "easier" in that you don't have to run all over the goddamn place, and you gain levels faster.  That's the boring kind of difficulty.  But actual combat is MUCH more interactive and involving at early levels now.  Like, at level 3 as a hunter you are learning to manage focus in combat, and even discovering that pulling threat sucks since they do not give you a melee ability and you immediately realize "Hey, I can't do shit if I let dudes get close to me."  It's so, so much better than before.  I really think the ability progression revamp is extremely well done.  You start getting "trained" to play your class almost instantly now, instead of your initial strategies being totally unrelated to what you end up playing once you get all five million talents or whatever.

Also, I like that they seem to have a "don't stand in the fire" mini-boss in most of the starting areas now.  Any of you notice that?  I thought it was pretty amusing. :)  Like, that named scorpion in the orc/troll starting area (the one that poisoned that troll lying by the tree) fires poison globs from range that create poison pools, Vezax-style.

[kildorn]

*grumble grumble* make any "stand in fire" effect put a -99% damage debuff on you so DPS stops acting like they shouldn't get the fuck out of it because their DPS will be lower and healers should just burn mana on them *grumble*

[ezrast]

I am in full support of this proposal.

[Simond]

Let them die, then point out their dps is zero now.

[Lantyssa]

Silly non-DPS.  Being dead doesn't count.

[kildorn]

Silly non-DPS.  Being dead doesn't count.

Counter stops when you're no longer in combat! :D

Plus, my dps would be higher if the heals weren't asleep/stupid!

(can you tell I've got the Bitter Healer mastery spec?)

[WindupAtheist]

So will I need to do a bunch of sixty-levels-lower shit on my main in order to avoid being out of phase with newer characters everywhere? If I level through zones A, B, and C will I be forever out of phase with anyone who leveled through X, Y, and Z instead?

No.

What if I want to do those quests on my 80 just for laughs? How does the whole thing work?

[Fordel]

You just go do them like you would any other low level quest. As far as the game is concerned, they are all entirely new and separate quests, which is why it will fuck over anyone who didn't finish their loremaster or whatever.


The vast majority of the phasing is NOT like the DK starting zone phasing, where you keep being forwarded to the next phase world. It's more you are in the normal world, jump into phase world for a quest, then jump back when you are done (or drop the quest, or just leave the small quest specific area). So you would only potentially be out of phase with someone actively doing the quest in the area, and even then you often aren't separated from the other players in the area, you just see things slightly differently.



I think grouping with someone will pull you into their phase as well, if you ever do get separated by phase world or whatever.

[WindupAtheist]

Good times, thanks.

[Merusk]

You just go do them like you would any other low level quest. As far as the game is concerned, they are all entirely new and separate quests, which is why it will fuck over anyone who didn't finish their loremaster or whatever.

? Wait, if they're new quests and in EK/ Kalimdor how is it going to fuck over folks looking for Loremaster later on?  Seems it only makes it easier, because instead of piddling with all of the 40's & 50's "Run here run there, run everywhere" quests, they can run back to the newb zones and bang those out.  Bonus that they're in the new grouped fashion so running around is minimized.

Ed:  Looked it up since I was confuzzled.  I'd call it easier in Cata than it was before. It's working by the same method as the BC and Northrend quests, in that there's an achievement for each zone.  No more hunting down quests and wondering if it counts towards the 1500 or not.  Just follow the zone story line and get the achievement.

[K9]

You get fucked over in the short term because you will lose progression. In the long run Loremaster just got a whole lot easier.

[Rendakor]

Yea, what K9 said. You only got fucked if you were like 50 quests away from being completed, because odds are a few hundred you had done no longer exist.

[Fordel]

Yea, that's what I was referring too. If you had like 80% of it done or whatever, then you are more or less back to square one now.

[Merusk]

Ahhh.. Well if you were that close you had plenty of warning. I feel bad for nobody!

[Selby]

Ahhh.. Well if you were that close you had plenty of warning. I feel bad for nobody!

Yeah I was 25 quests away from EK\Kalimdor on my priest, but honestly, she was my 3rd one and I got bored with it and don't feel bad.  I'm curious to see how much (if any) count.

[Merusk]

Ahhh.. Well if you were that close you had plenty of warning. I feel bad for nobody!

Yeah I was 25 quests away from EK\Kalimdor on my priest, but honestly, she was my 3rd one and I got bored with it and don't feel bad.  I'm curious to see how much (if any) count.

From what's remained on my DK; nothing except 19 quests on bloodmyst isle.  The rest of the zones are reading 0 or 1 completed quests. (However I didn't get too far in most zones because i was just doing them for faction.)

[Ingmar]

I had done nearly every quest pre-Cataclysm (Alliance side) and the only zones I had enough to auto-get the achievement in were Bloodmyst Isle and Silithus. Everywhere else changed too much I guess.