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Topic: Bioshock: Infinite (Read 92748 times)
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Sjofn
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Every time I watch that trailer the sheer stupidity of a hot-air balloon city takes me right out of it.
You have no romance in your soul. :( |
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Ingmar
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The stuff they are doing with lighting in that game is pretty amazing I think.
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The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
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pxib
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Oh it's visually superb, but the previous game (ugly as it was) had some plausible impossibility. Rapture was absurd, but it was wrong in ways I could wrap my head around. This snaps my suspension of disbelief like a stick across its knee. That said, it's a great trailer and I'll enjoy watching somebody's walkthrough on Youtube one day.
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if at last you do succeed, never try again
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Malakili
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That said, it's a great trailer and I'll enjoy watching somebody's walkthrough on Youtube one day.
I feel this way about more and more upcoming games. Its like they are trying so hard with story and atmosphere and everything, but its like..hell just make a movie if thats what you want to do. |
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UnSub
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That was way too heavily scripted to be 'real' gameplay.
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Samwise
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That was way too heavily scripted to be 'real' gameplay.
Neh, that looked pretty plausible, if possibly a pain in the ass for the player who doesn't figure out quickly what he's supposed to do to get through each section. I did wonder what happens if you grab the glowing ball of death your sidekick gives you and panic and throw it in the wrong direction or something. Do you just have to kill the bad guys the old fashioned way then, or does she say "okay, I think I can do it ONE more time" until you get it right? |
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Malakili
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That was way too heavily scripted to be 'real' gameplay.
It was someone playing, but acting "in character" if I had to guess. |
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Lakov_Sanite
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That was way too heavily scripted to be 'real' gameplay.
It was someone playing, but acting "in character" if I had to guess. Pretty much. You have to realize the person playing that demo helped make the game, he knew exactly what to do and where to go to make it all look very seamless/ |
~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
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pxib
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I did wonder what happens if you grab the glowing ball of death your sidekick gives you and panic and throw it in the wrong direction or something. Do you just have to kill the bad guys the old fashioned way then, or does she say "okay, I think I can do it ONE more time" until you get it right?
Just to speculate: The obvious evolution of the much maligned QTE is to have the required actions be natural player commands that are made obvious by visuals and queues, and to never remove freedom from the player. It's still "press X twice relatively quickly and accurately to not die", but X is the button you always use to do that particular psychic trick. Otherwise big bad comes over and kicks your ass and there's really nothing you can do... and the game restarts at an invisible save point right before the dramatic moment. Cutscenes without the cut, and slightly more interactive than Valve has been making them. Knowing Bioshock's urge to vomit up hints every time there's any doubt you don't know exactly what you ought to do, I wouldn't be surprised if it subtitles the required commands in a vaguely QTE fashion: "Press L1 to activate telekinesis." then "Press X to grasp objects telekinetically, and then press X again to throw them." |
if at last you do succeed, never try again
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Kail
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That was way too heavily scripted to be 'real' gameplay.
Neh, that looked pretty plausible, if possibly a pain in the ass for the player who doesn't figure out quickly what he's supposed to do to get through each section. I did wonder what happens if you grab the glowing ball of death your sidekick gives you and panic and throw it in the wrong direction or something. Do you just have to kill the bad guys the old fashioned way then, or does she say "okay, I think I can do it ONE more time" until you get it right? That's why it's basically totally implausible. He had a plasmid/whatever that let him catch the artillery shell when it was fired directly at him. That would have made the entire "encounter" about ten seconds long if he'd used it at the start when the building was being shelled. He missed a few rifle shots which similarly would have ended the entire encounter before the first building was destroyed. You could maybe argue that the AI is just THAT GOOD that it can dynamically generate an entire encounter based on what the player does, but first off, that would be so far ahead of anything any other game has done that it's not even funny, and second of all, you'd still have to build mountains of unused content for the game to draw on. The voice acting alone would be rediculous, you can't generate that stuff algorithmically yet. I suspect this will have as much resemblance to the real Bioshock: Infinite as the trailer for the original Bioshock did to the final product. |
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Malakili
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I think its fairly obvious that it isn't representative of the experience most people will have actually playing the game, that doesn't mean it isn't gameplay though, in the same way Freeman's Mind is "gameplay" of Half Life, in a way. |
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Samwise
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That's why it's basically totally implausible. He had a plasmid/whatever that let him catch the artillery shell when it was fired directly at him. That would have made the entire "encounter" about ten seconds long if he'd used it at the start when the building was being shelled. He missed a few rifle shots which similarly would have ended the entire encounter before the first building was destroyed.
I have to assume you haven't played many FPSes so you don't know how trivial it is to keep players from doing stuff that messes up your scripted scene.  For example, if you used the artillery-shell catching plasmid too early, it just wouldn't work for some reason -- I note that the first shell hit the building, which means that you couldn't get right in its path (since you can't get on the roof of the building). I'm betting subsequent shells also strike places where you wouldn't be able to catch them but that encourage you to get the fuck off that platform so you can move on to the next bit. If they were sloppy and a shell did land somewhere that you should have been able to catch it, the plasmid just wouldn't work. That would be lame, but games do lame shit like that all the time. The bad guy that was running away while being shot at and missed? It wouldn't have mattered if he'd been "hit", because I can guarantee you that he's effectively invulnerable during that scene. As the player you'd rationalize this by thinking that you either missed him or that he has lots of health and the one or two shots you landed weren't QUITE enough. From what we saw I'm quite confident that the story is on very tight rails, like most story-heavy FPSes (including the first Bioshock). We just didn't see the rails because the player in this case was careful not to bump into them. |
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Kail
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I have to assume you haven't played many FPSes so you don't know how trivial it is to keep players from doing stuff that messes up your scripted scene. I've played a fair bit, but haven't seen any that are anywhere near as intrusive as what you're proposing. They take away control during cutscenes, hide the villain behind bulletproof glass, lock out your weapons if you're aiming at friendlies, cause you to fail the mission if critical characters die, and so on, but you can tell pretty quickly what you're not supposed to be shooting. They don't just put the villain in front of you, let you wail away on him to no effect, and wag their finger at you because "Simon didn't say." If this game is really does just arbitrarily toggle an invincibility mode on certain characters without telling you who is invincible or when they're not or what the hell you're supposed to be doing, this game is going to be a powerful force for suck. |
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Samwise
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Posts: 19324
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Having a tough boss-type villain "get away" as you're trying to kill him (so you can eventually catch up to him and "finish the fight") is a well-worn device; I'm pretty sure you've seen it before and just didn't realize what was happening because it was executed well enough that you didn't question it. In this case the bad guy at least got away quickly rather than sitting there taking repeated immersion-breaking shots to the cranium before making his exit.
(edit) Although I do wonder what happens if you shoot him first rather than allowing his lackey to distract you. I'd guess he just hightails it out of there at high speed as soon as you either shoot him or kill his lackey.
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« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 08:23:53 PM by Samwise »
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Kail
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(edit) Although I do wonder what happens if you shoot him first rather than allowing his lackey to distract you. I'd guess he just hightails it out of there at high speed as soon as you either shoot him or kill his lackey.
That's what's bugging me, there's too much "what if" for this to be real. What happens if you shoot the guy you're not supposed to shoot? What happens if you knock Charles off the ledge slightly further to the right, do you lose that tonic forever? What happens if you don't run from the cannon (since it can't shoot at you without you catching the shots and destroying it)? What happens if you guess the wrong alley to duck down when the mob is chasing you? I just can't imagine the actual game being like this. I mean, picture what a strategy guide for this game would look like. "Walk around until you see the gazebo with the guy lecturing on it. Don't get the gun or he'll attack you. Instead, jump on the rail and go to the next building. If you go in the bar here, the patrons will mob you, so don't do that. Just look for a rail to your left you can ride to the next area, where some anime chick is waiting." The whole movie is filled with avoidable encounters, and anime chick makes the one boss fight trivially easy. I mean, it's a very dramatic trailer and all, but dramatic and good gameplay are not normally in the same room at the same time. |
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Margalis
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Without even looking at the video given that the game was just announced and is still relatively early it's almost certainly staged. Even if it's 100% in-engine it probably has very little to do with the final gameplay, that's just the nature of these things.
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vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
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Malakili
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Without even looking at the video given that the game was just announced and is still relatively early it's almost certainly staged. Even if it's 100% in-engine it probably has very little to do with the final gameplay, that's just the nature of these things.
Yeah, I think this is it. I sort of just assume "gameplay" means "in engine" when I see stuff like this, not someone actually sititng there playing the game that has never touched it before (which is what the real experience of that would be like, you'd run around, hit a dead end, turn around, etc). This guy knows where to go, how to act, etc, but its still gameplay in that there is a physical person sitting there playing. |
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luckton
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"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."
"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
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Malakili
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Posts: 10596
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Well, this thread hasn't seen any action in a long time, but this is just too good to pass up: http://irrationalgames.com/insider/announcing-1999-mode/BioShock Infinite’s 1999 Mode will feature an especially demanding gaming experience, forcing you to examine your decisions while going through your adventure in Columbia. With every choice you make, there are irreversible implications, and if your choices guide you down a path not suited to your play style, you will suffer for it.
It’s not simply a matter of adjusting the difficulty sliders in the game – the team went much further than that. Resource planning? If you’re to survive this mode, proper planning will be crucial. Combat specializations? You’ll need to develop them efficiently and effectively throughout the story; any weapon will be useless to you unless you have that specialization. Combat? You will need to carefully target every shot, and your health will be set to an entirely different baseline. Game saves? Well, yes, there will be those, but according to Irrational Games Creative Director Ken Levine “there are game saves, and you’re gonna f***ing need them.”
I'm not sure which I like more, a proper hard mode, or the fact that they've given it a name that is condescending to anyone under 25. |
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luckton
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It sounds like Resident Evil mode to me.
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"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."
"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
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Trippy
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Well System Shock 2 was released in 1999 but I don't remember it being that hard. Was there a special mode in that game that this is trying to copy?
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luckton
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Well System Shock 2 was released in 1999 but I don't remember it being that hard. Was there a special mode in that game that this is trying to copy?
Now that you bring that up, I get what they're trying to do. In SS2, you picked your specializations at the start of the game, right before you departed on the ship. It was supposed to simulate your "early career" as a space marine, but it did give you certain skills and boosts. You could eventually just learn and do everything with enough money and time spent, but it was an interesting mechanic in that you could mix and match specs. |
"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."
"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
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rk47
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Sounds like hype talk to me.
So you shot a bullet and the bullet can't be picked up. Loss of resources. Oh shit.
No re-specialization? Wow. Truly revolutionary.
SAVE GAMES = HARD MODE, PEOPLE.
F***ing hardcore!
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Colonel Sanders is back in my wallet
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Ironwood
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Well System Shock 2 was released in 1999 but I don't remember it being that hard. Was there a special mode in that game that this is trying to copy?
Skills you had to prepick, bullet management and guns that degraded. It was kinda hard. |
"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Ingmar
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Sounds like hype talk to me.
So you shot a bullet and the bullet can't be picked up. Loss of resources. Oh shit.
No re-specialization? Wow. Truly revolutionary.
SAVE GAMES = HARD MODE, PEOPLE.
F***ing hardcore!
I'm pretty sure that the entire point of it is to be anti-revolutionary. |
The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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Father mike
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ARISE !!!
Up for pre-order on Steam. Release date 16 Feb 13
Pre-order benefits include a flash puzzle game you can play (?grind?) for in-game goodies.
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I would like to thank Vladimir Putin for ensuring that every member of the NPR news staff has had to say "Pussy Riot" on the air multiple times.
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luckton
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Is it me or does this game just not appeal to me at all because it looks, sounds, and feels like a reskinned Bioshock 1?
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"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."
"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
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Ingmar
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Um, only you can tell us why a game doesn't appeal to you.  |
The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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Samwise
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I'm curious to hear some reviews on this one. I enjoyed Bioshock 1 (mostly, I thought everything up to A MAN CHOOSES was great and then it started to drag), and then I heard that Bioshock 2 would only ruin whatever good memories I had of Bioshock 1, so I avoided it.
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kildorn
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I'm curious to hear some reviews on this one. I enjoyed Bioshock 1 (mostly, I thought everything up to A MAN CHOOSES was great and then it started to drag), and then I heard that Bioshock 2 would only ruin whatever good memories I had of Bioshock 1, so I avoided it.
Mostly different studios. Though I heard 2 wasn't as bad as people said. But anywho, Bioshock 1 > Irrational. Bioshock 2 > offshoot of Irrational over in San Fran. Bioshock Airship > Irrational again. No idea how good it's going to be, I'll probably look at it more when it's closer to release time. |
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UnSub
Contributor
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I'm curious to hear some reviews on this one. I enjoyed Bioshock 1 (mostly, I thought everything up to A MAN CHOOSES was great and then it started to drag), and then I heard that Bioshock 2 would only ruin whatever good memories I had of Bioshock 1, so I avoided it.
It wasn't that bad. The narrative isn't as strong, but it has some great level design (like Ryan's Amusements) and the part where you run around as a Little Sister, seeing the world as they do, was a good change. The Minerva's Den DLC is stronger in my view, but that's because it is shorter and more focused. |
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rk47
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I can't wait, they made a game taking place underwater where you can't drown and die. It's time to take it to the skies where you can't fall and die. |
Colonel Sanders is back in my wallet
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Fabricated
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~Living the Dream~
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I'm curious to hear some reviews on this one. I enjoyed Bioshock 1 (mostly, I thought everything up to A MAN CHOOSES was great and then it started to drag), and then I heard that Bioshock 2 would only ruin whatever good memories I had of Bioshock 1, so I avoided it.
Bioshock 2 is like a high-quality fangame. Bioshock 1's story was pretty definitively finished, but well it sold so let's make another. This time Rapture is still somehow not destroyed (it is in a more serious state of decay now), and now your enemy is an evil deranged female collectivist that was never ever talked about in the first game because Ryan had her secretly bumped off (or at least he thinks he did). Instead of fighting Ayn Rand you're fighting WaterMarx, and you're a big daddy instead of some cloned guy. |
"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
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Phred
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Every time I watch that trailer the sheer stupidity of a hot-air balloon city takes me right out of it.
Shit, I know you couldn't create Rapture with actual 1950's technology but at least "city under the sea" kinda makes sense in some ways.
Yes because games must be in believable settings or they will suck |
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Fabricated
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~Living the Dream~
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Every time I watch that trailer the sheer stupidity of a hot-air balloon city takes me right out of it.
Shit, I know you couldn't create Rapture with actual 1950's technology but at least "city under the sea" kinda makes sense in some ways.
Yes because games must be in believable settings or they will suck Yeah, well the jerk store called and they said they were all outta you! Hang on gonna bookmark this topic for your comeback in 2015 |
"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
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