Sucker Punch

[WindupAtheist]

Also, now that the Sunday box office preliminaries are out and look exactly like anyone with any sense expected, one might expect me to use them as trolling material. Not so. Mostly because I finally looked at this movie's reviews and frankly they're way more hilarious.

The trailer made it look more fun than 3/6 Star Wars films. You guess which ones!

The ones that all scored 3 to 4 times as well critically as this commercially-failing shitpile that will be completely forgotten a few months from now? Next time someone here wants to use the "Well you liked the Star Wars prequels!" line on me, make sure it's in defense of something that at least manages to beat Scooby-Doo 2: Monsters Unleashed on the RottenTomatoes scale, m'kay?

[Arthur_Parker]

I'm not sure why it would be trolling material, people can say something looks interesting based on a trailer, it's only a trailer.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sucker-punch-2010/

Looks a lot like either a very stupid person has tried to make a very clever film, or a very clever person has tried to make a very stupid one.

So bad that when the film's friendly lobotomist shows up to do his thing, I almost found myself standing up in my seat and shouting "I'll have what she's having!"

This isn't the imagination of a young girl; it's the fantasy of a 14-year-old boy steeped in kung fu, Call of Duty and online porn.

Hmm, not sure that's a negative one.

How could a movie with giant samurai, interplanetary robots, undead WWI soldiers, dragons and 5 half-naked beauties be bad? Well, funny you asked.

Hands-down the most nightmarishly awful film of the year.

[Merusk]

I always enjoy watching the critics ratings vs the user ratings on movies.  This is running 20/63 and the new "Wimpy Kid" movie is running 40/78.   I'd go more with "the reviewers aren't the audience the movie was aiming for" than anything else.   Which would explain the 89/74 of Rango as well.

"Old" people shouldn't review teen movies.

[WindupAtheist]

I always enjoy watching the critics ratings vs the user ratings on movies.  This is running 20/63 and the new "Wimpy Kid" movie is running 40/78.   I'd go more with "the reviewers aren't the audience the movie was aiming for" than anything else.   Which would explain the 89/74 of Rango as well.

"Old" people shouldn't review teen movies.

The aforementioned Scooby-Doo sequel did 21/57. Alvin and the Chipmunks did 27/73. Two hours of scat porn would probably do 0/75 because you're only polling users who wanted to see scat porn in the first place. User ratings are a worthless metric for measuring anything at all.

[Merusk]

Well see, there you're just plain wrong.  Scat purists don't give a flying fuck what you, me or Ebert think about their porn.  They only care what other scat purists who share the same taste think.  Ditto the audience for Sucker Punch, Scooby-Doo, Alvin, etc.  In that light user metrics are very useful to the users themselves.

Had you stuck to the, "just because geeks love it, doesn't mean it'll make it's bank," I'd agree with you.  It was going to do piss-poor at the box office. That anyone thought otherwise is the surprise here.

[Teleku]

This movie is getting horrible reviews.  However everybody else I know, and I, still can't help but want to go see this this.  Its very odd, but we'll be doing so next weekend.  In 3D IMAX.  God help us all.   

[Typhon]

Saw it in IMAX.  It's... lol, not good, but actually not "bad", where "bad" = fails to deliver way-way-way-over-the-top action scenes.  It's ridiculous and takes itself very seriously.  Seeing it IMAX was a good choice, because if there is any chance at all to not be pissed off about seeing this movie, that would be it.

If you are going to be annoyed about spending $30 for spectacle, definitely don't see it.  If you want to see samurai robots (really, it's better to say 'golem' then robot, I think) with chainguns and are determined to not let some author's heavy-handed attempts to tell a story or moralize get in the way, you won't be very disappointed.

Was just about what I expected, I'm not pissed off that I saw it, but wouldn't recommend it to anyone else.

[Kitsune]

The plot was actively horrible.  The visuals were great, but didn't make up for the plot's badness, because the characters were so tedious that I really couldn't care even when they were fighting undead Germans.

[WindupAtheist]

Well see, there you're just plain wrong.  Scat purists don't give a flying fuck what you, me or Ebert think about their porn.  They only care what other scat purists who share the same taste think.  Ditto the audience for Sucker Punch, Scooby-Doo, Alvin, etc.  In that light user metrics are very useful to the users themselves.

They're worthless because all they tell you is that almost literally everything is at least kind of good... in the eyes of the sort of people who'll go see it and then come home and rate it on the internet. You really, really have to scrape the absolute bottom of the barrel (Jack Black vehicles) to find anything that does below a 3/5 average user score.

Average user score, The Dark Knight: 4.5
Average user score, Ninja Turtles at the Earth's Core: 3.8
Average user score, Alvin and the Chipmunks: 3.6
Average user score, Sucker Punch: 3.4

What the fuck is the useful purpose of any rating system that can't even generate a full one-point break between Dark Knight and fucking Chipmunks? Editing to add some animated TMNT thing from 20 years ago for laughs. Oh man I bet it's good, the people who rated it thought it was. Maybe if I get pushed on this topic any further I'll do some sort of "Direct to video animated features versus Oscar nominees" user ratings extravaganza.

[Khaldun]

Well see, there you're just plain wrong.  Scat purists don't give a flying fuck what you, me or Ebert think about their porn.  They only care what other scat purists who share the same taste think.  Ditto the audience for Sucker Punch, Scooby-Doo, Alvin, etc.  In that light user metrics are very useful to the users themselves.

They're worthless because all they tell you is that almost literally everything is at least kind of good... in the eyes of the sort of people who'll go see it and then come home and rate it on the internet. You really, really have to scrape the absolute bottom of the barrel (Jack Black vehicles) to find anything that does below a 3/5 average user score.

Average user score, The Dark Knight: 4.5
Average user score, Ninja Turtles at the Earth's Core: 3.8
Average user score, Alvin and the Chipmunks: 3.6
Average user score, Sucker Punch: 3.4

What the fuck is the useful purpose of any rating system that can't even generate a full one-point break between Dark Knight and fucking Chipmunks? Editing to add some animated TMNT thing from 20 years ago for laughs. Oh man I bet it's good, the people who rated it thought it was. Maybe if I get pushed on this topic any further I'll do some sort of "Direct to video animated features versus Oscar nominees" user ratings extravaganza.

I once called this the "My Mother the Car" effect. There is literally no work of popular culture that does not have devotees who would rank it highly. Add to that a known aversion by some raters to use a full 5 or 10 point scale and a not-insignificant group of raters who use ratings primarily just to fuck with whatever ranking system is being maintained.

[WindupAtheist]

Yeah, hell there used to be a usenet group dedicated to the greatness of Joe Versus the Volcano. You literally can't make something bad enough that at least a few people won't think it's the greatest thing ever.

[K9]

Well there's that, then there's The Vagina Ass of Lucifer Niggerbastard

 

[ghost]

Yeah, hell there used to be a usenet group dedicated to the greatness of Joe Versus the Volcano. You literally can't make something bad enough that at least a few people won't think it's the greatest thing ever.

Battlefield Earth?

[Furiously]

Yeah, hell there used to be a usenet group dedicated to the greatness of Joe Versus the Volcano. You literally can't make something bad enough that at least a few people won't think it's the greatest thing ever.

Battlefield Earth?

You have to have a braincloud if you don't think Joe Versus the Volcano is good fun....

[Teleku]

Yeah, hell there used to be a usenet group dedicated to the greatness of Joe Versus the Volcano. You literally can't make something bad enough that at least a few people won't think it's the greatest thing ever.

Wait, did you just dis Joe Versus the Volcano?  You are officially never allowed to judge a movie ever again!  Ever!!!

[DraconianOne]

You really, really have to scrape the absolute bottom of the barrel (Jack Black vehicles) to find anything that does below a 3/5 average user score.

One film that does is The Last Exorcism - it has a user rating of 2.6/5  Curiously, it has a reviewer rating of 6.2/10 and a 73/31 split.

But I'm gonna have to go ahead and side with WUA on this one. User metrics are fucking terrible, on the whole. X-Men: First Class already has user reviews rating it between 1 star and 5 stars  and the film isn't out for another 2 months. There's no pre-requisite criteria for knowing whether or not people have seen a film or not whereas if "professional" reviewers are doing their job then at least they're rating something they've seen.

Anyway, fuck reviews. All of them.

[Ghambit]

Is this movie good?

[Ironwood]

Ask Again Later.

[HaemishM]

You literally can't make something bad enough that at least a few people won't think it's the greatest thing ever.

Many things are much admired among those who like that sort of thing.

[Velorath]

Is this movie good?

Not especially.  Visually, I think a lot of it is amazing and that's pretty much all I was there for (with my usually disclaimer that it didn't cost me anything).  The narration is pretty heavy-handed although only present in the beginning and at the end.  There are some confusing sequences, which I'm not sure if they are the result of bad writing or just bad editing.  In particular it's unclear how Baby Doll's sister dies at the beginning (I can only assume it's a ricocheted bullet, but scene where the shot is fired doesn't really show that well).  Also, there's no transition when Baby Doll goes from the Asylum to her being in a fantasy that this is all taking place inside a brothel (which is how she pictures things from then on up until near the end of the movie).  Again, I don't know if there's a scene they edited out there, but if you don't already have some idea about the premise of the story it probably comes across like they just decided to change the setting of the movie partway in and just hoped nobody noticed.

I do disagree somewhat with what people say about the fantasy sequences not mattering because they're all just fantasy.  I generally had the sense that if something were to go wrong in one of them, that it would correlate somehow with something going wrong in the real world.  I don't think they play with that enough, but it is eventually shown to be true.  I'm curious to see an eventual Director's cut of this, because I think it's just a few edits away from being a good movie at least, although it will probably never be a great one.

[Sand]

Well there's that, then there's The Vagina Ass of Lucifer Niggerbastard

 

Reading this now. Its awesome!
I enjoy reading passages out loud to my wife and watching her cringe! 

[Sheepherder]

That title sounds like something Haemish would choose.

[HaemishM]

Not so much. Too much fucking assfucking for my taste.

But the insides... my God, there are no words. 

[Hutch]

Not so much. Too much fucking assfucking for my taste.

But the insides... my God, there are no words. 

By my count there appear to be seven words

[Azazel]

The trailer made it look more fun than 3/6 Star Wars films. You guess which ones!

The ones that all scored 3 to 4 times as well critically as this commercially-failing shitpile that will be completely forgotten a few months from now? Next time someone here wants to use the "Well you liked the Star Wars prequels!" line on me, make sure it's in defense of something that at least manages to beat Scooby-Doo 2: Monsters Unleashed on the RottenTomatoes scale, m'kay?

Looks like you missed the point entirely, which was that the trailer looked like more fun than those three SW films. Even TPM cut a good trailer, though.. And I was only talking about two of the prequels. But, shit, Star Wars branded films made more money than <insert movie title here>? Really? No Shit?

[Typhon]

Yeah, hell there used to be a usenet group dedicated to the greatness of Joe Versus the Volcano. You literally can't make something bad enough that at least a few people won't think it's the greatest thing ever.

Wait, did you just dis Joe Versus the Volcano?  You are officially never allowed to judge a movie ever again!  Ever!!!

At the very least, he will need to get in a flexible frame before further reviews are permitted. 

[Samwise]

So I saw Sucker Punch last night.  The visuals and music were great, but the plot made no sense.  I'm glad I saw it but do not feel compelled to see it again.

IMO Zack Snyder is a great director but he should stick to adapting other peoples' material.

[Bunk]

Saw it on the weekend and... sort of enjoyed it. Loved the visuals and the soundtrack. Found parts of it rather disturbing - it was kind of weird in that I expected the movie to be sexy and titilating, but that was kind of ambushed by all the dark situations. The fight scenes were fun, but I think could have been edited down a bit.

That all being said, there are some story aspects that took me a while to form an oppinion on, and I'd like to know how my interpretation of things meshes with other peoples:

[LK]

Saw it. Didn't like it right away, but slept on it and spun a large number of interesting thoughts out of it. I could go into another Tron-esque diatribe on the movie as I thought that looking at it in the traditional movie-watcher perspective would only lead to dissatisfaction, but it requires a massive amount of effort to put my thoughts on this to paper.

Bunk's theories are interesting though. It helps explains some loose ends in my head.

What matters is I enjoyed it.

Got some time at work:

[Bunk]

upon further thought, I have even more theory:

[Typhon]

Here's my take:

[LK]

[01101010]

You know, for a movie that I figured would be 98% imagery, 2% story; there is a lot of theory crafting about the plot and ending. Not sure how I feel about that.

[Sir T]

People try and find meaning in the most fuckstupid things. Its a natural progression of the "QWTF WAS THAT ABOUT?? I can't have just watched a 2 hour directors excuse for a wank movie!"

[LK]

There are industry people that understand what the industry is about and the realities of it, but will still do their damndest to create meaningful works of art or do a good job within the constraints of that system. Not everyone tries because at a certain point they don't believe it's worth it to try. I think Zack tried; the alternative doesn't make sense. It's his baby, and something he invested an enormous amount of time and energy in to, likely at great risk to his career and his future prospects. Why the hell would he make a movie that would waste our time? If you were given the opportunity to make an original movie in an increasingly risk-adverse, jaded, sequel-heavy status quo, wouldn't you go all out to make something special? Especially if you thought you might not get this chance again?

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. When I dug around I was satisfied that there was something to think about here instead of "Oh look at those special effects." I know he's got a career built on more spectacle-driven films and adaptions, but I believe he impressed there and paid his dues so he could get his own project going, similar to Nolan with Inception. They have to first work within the system and succeed in order to be able to change the system.

I saw the same in Tron: Legacy's development. It was likely made for commercial exploitation of an older property Disney owned. But does that mean that passionate people on the project didn't fight like hell to get that movie made out of their love for the original movie? I don't think so.