Real ID comes to WoW

[WindupAtheist]

I still don't get what this system is for. My real-life friends and relatives? They're all on my IM list and we're not turning our IM programs off, since not everyone we might want to hear from plays WoW. I wonder what their adoption rate on this is going to be.

[Sheepherder]

contact your extensive facebook siblings network about it  

Which one?

EDIT: The funny part is that neither of my parents object to abortion or birth control.  They're just fucking insane.

And no, I don't have an eating disorder.

[WindupAtheist]

Also, it's been what, a few days since they announced the whole real names on forums thing? By the standards of a large company this has been a shockingly fast reversal. Someone thought this was a good idea, and whoever it was has been given something to think about.

I wonder how many people unsubbed over this. I know the cancellation page was supposedly down for a little while with all the traffic. It has to have been a noteworthy number, they didn't go back on this just because the forum thread got really long.

[Azazel]

The thing is, when you're in a pseudonymous environment like this one, where people have stable long-term identities and stable long-term forum personalities, it would take a really scary sociopath to NOT reveal information. You'd have to play weird, skanky kinds of identity games where you revealed false details, had several personas or attitudes, and so on. There are people who do in fact act just that way in blog comment areas or asynchronous forums and they are almost always obvious *as* psychopaths or disturbed people, even if that's all you know about them. Occasionally you even have forums where everyone is encouraged to act like that, where that's the local culture, but mostly, if you've got adults talking to each other over a period of years, they're going to give up a lot of information about who they are, what they do, where they live and so on.

Did I ever tell you about the time I saw a guy bitten in half by a shark? It was shortly after taking a break from being the only honest NYC cop, but before I started to train Special Forces or went on to run the intelligence community in the Middle East.

[Fordel]

Also, it's been what, a few days since they announced the whole real names on forums thing? By the standards of a large company this has been a shockingly fast reversal. Someone thought this was a good idea, and whoever it was has been given something to think about.

I wonder how many people unsubbed over this. I know the cancellation page was supposedly down for a little while with all the traffic. It has to have been a noteworthy number, they didn't go back on this just because the forum thread got really long.

That's my take on it as well, enough people actually went "You know what, fuck you, you aren't getting any more of my money!".

[Ratman_tf]

, I saw what happened to Sarah Connor 1 & 2 as a kid. 

 

[Merusk]

Also, it's been what, a few days since they announced the whole real names on forums thing? By the standards of a large company this has been a shockingly fast reversal. Someone thought this was a good idea, and whoever it was has been given something to think about.

I wonder how many people unsubbed over this. I know the cancellation page was supposedly down for a little while with all the traffic. It has to have been a noteworthy number, they didn't go back on this just because the forum thread got really long.

I was the only one in my guild and group of 10+ year MMO friends who seemed to care, which both does and doesn't surprise me.  Even going by those here who were maintaining subs there were only, what, 3-4 of us who canceled?   It certainly might have been a large number, as 1% of 12mil players is 120k people, but I wonder how large a percentage it actually was.

My guess is that the # of folks that called Blizzard/ Activision mentioning Kotick and other Exec's wife and kids in detail (whose info was posted on that "Blizzard Employee Aggregate" blog) had more influence than anything else.  Not to say that the rest didn't have influence.

[Musashi]

They need your real name to make it so that your Blizzard persona is subjected to your Facebook.  It's really as simple as that.  As long as I have the option to not do it, and hackers can't see my real name, I'm good.  But I'm still kind of wary that it won't end up like that.

This logic confuses me somewhat. Blizzard already has or will have a huge chunk of players IDs to begin with when they pay through debit or credit cards. Using such sources to share with corporate friends has been done before and we as a society have tacitly condoned it. They won't get everyone unlike Real ID so I don't see what the point is in making a hamfisted move to capture everyone...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KtPiECJWro

They won't get everyone what?  Sorry, man.  I don't understand your post.

[Azazel]

I was the only one in my guild and group of 10+ year MMO friends who seemed to care, which both does and doesn't surprise me.  Even going by those here who were maintaining subs there were only, what, 3-4 of us who canceled?   It certainly might have been a large number, as 1% of 12mil players is 120k people, but I wonder how large a percentage it actually was.

My guess is that the # of folks that called Blizzard/ Activision mentioning Kotick and other Exec's wife and kids in detail (whose info was posted on that "Blizzard Employee Aggregate" blog) had more influence than anything else.  Not to say that the rest didn't have influence.

At a guess I'd think it was more because of Acti-Blizzard execs' personal information being broadcast. I mean, my interest in purchasing and resubbing for Cataclysm has dropped from quite likely down to fuckall, and then there's my wife and a friend of ours who would resub if we did, so that's 3 lost sales, but honestly, we're not subbed now, so we're the same as "losses to piracy" in being an unmeasurable number that can be reduced or inflated. I mean, I do hope they took a big cancellation hit (1%?) but I wouldn't bet on it being the primary motivation.

[waffel]

Thanks to pipl I found a violent sex offender with my first, middle, and last name in the same state.   

I prefer the gentle sex offenders, myself.

[WindupAtheist]

At a guess I'd think it was more because of Acti-Blizzard execs' personal information being broadcast.

If so, that's even better. In any case, whoever over there thought this wasn't going to be *that* big a deal has learned something.

[Lantyssa]

It's not really as huge as you think. If at any point one of your MUD friends did something to you, people would be calling you stupid for going to see them. If Ingmar had at any point turned into a crazy man and hurt me, people would've been calling me stupid. It doesn't matter how well you knew your Fake Internet Friends, if it turned out you didn't know them as well as you thought, people call YOU stupid for trusting them.

It was a family of three MUD players I had known for four or five years at that point, a guy and his girlfriend who were friends with them and also lived in Edmonton, and another guy and gal from the US that went at the same time, plus I had full names, addresses, and notified my mother of all this.  Short of an absolute psycho who didn't care about being caught, my bases were pretty well covered.  It'd be less safe for me to go meet y'all, and I'm pretty sure you're okay by this point.

[kildorn]

It's not really as huge as you think. If at any point one of your MUD friends did something to you, people would be calling you stupid for going to see them. If Ingmar had at any point turned into a crazy man and hurt me, people would've been calling me stupid. It doesn't matter how well you knew your Fake Internet Friends, if it turned out you didn't know them as well as you thought, people call YOU stupid for trusting them.

It was a family of three MUD players I had known for four or five years at that point, a guy and his girlfriend who were friends with them and also lived in Edmonton, and another guy and gal from the US that went at the same time, plus I had full names, addresses, and notified my mother of all this.  Short of an absolute psycho who didn't care about being caught, my bases were pretty well covered.  It'd be less safe for me to go meet y'all, and I'm pretty sure you're okay by this point.

They're MIDS, lanty. MIDS.

edit: I have it on good authority that Sjofn sleeps with a FREE TWO HANDED WEAPON under her pillow.

[WindupAtheist]

I have some close friends to this day I met online via Xband, and that service was for the SNES so it was a while ago. The connections were all local area, so we'd have get-togethers of 6 or 8 teenage nerds to play lazer tag, some kids started dating, blah blah. Have also met IRL some friends I originally met in UO, but that was after five years of knowing them, and talking on webcam, and their kids knowing who I was, and getting baby pictures, and so forth. By then I just plain wasn't concerned.

[Sheepherder]

I figure Sjofn has Ingmar captive, so he's harmless at this point, and she doesn't seem to be threatened by other people digging her man.  Probably because she has a strong whip hand.

 

[Paelos]

Also, it's been what, a few days since they announced the whole real names on forums thing? By the standards of a large company this has been a shockingly fast reversal. Someone thought this was a good idea, and whoever it was has been given something to think about.

I wonder how many people unsubbed over this. I know the cancellation page was supposedly down for a little while with all the traffic. It has to have been a noteworthy number, they didn't go back on this just because the forum thread got really long.

That's my take on it as well, enough people actually went "You know what, fuck you, you aren't getting any more of my money!".

Just looking at the thread alone, Righ and I both did, and that's two in a rather small population of people just discussing the topic. I can imagine the fallout was rather large given the response time. Possibly even more here unsubbed and didn't say so.

[Lantyssa]

Just looking at the thread alone, Righ and I both did, and that's two in a rather small population of people just discussing the topic. I can imagine the fallout was rather large given the response time. Possibly even more here unsubbed and didn't say so.

I did, too.  I'll probably get a time card and re-up on a month-by-month basis.  Now it will be a contest between my laziness and whether I really want to bother going to the corner store so I can log in.

edit: I have it on good authority that Sjofn sleeps with a FREE TWO HANDED WEAPON under her pillow.

This is why I would stalk Sjofn before Ingmar.  Did I mention I keep an axe by my desk after my break-in a few years ago?

[Sjofn]

edit: I have it on good authority that Sjofn sleeps with a FREE TWO HANDED WEAPON under her pillow.

This is why I would stalk Sjofn before Ingmar.  Did I mention I keep an axe by my desk after my break-in a few years ago?

You're like my sister! When her husband isn't home (they both travel for work a lot) she sleeps with various melee weapons by her bed, because her collie, while awesome, is not exactly Mr. Protective.

[Mattemeo]

Just tried my real name out on Pipl, and unsurprisingly it only found a smattering of results, which on inspection turned out only 2 things relevant to me - my Facebook page (what a surprise) and my long defunct MySpace page, which I am going to nuke right now, if I can remember the password. I have a pretty rare surname so it's generally very easy to filter through anything that pertains to me.

I sleep with a bokken by my bed. I'm not particularly nervous about break-ins or anything, that's just where it is.

[Ironwood]

All of this doesn't really change the fact that Cataclysm is a really poor expansion.

[Pantastic]

EDIT: To provide what is perhaps an extreme example, if either Sjofn or I had been as risk-averse about social contact through the Internet as many (most?) people in this thread seem to be advocating, we'd never have met, gotten married, etc. Obviously I prefer the result I've got to that.

There is a HUGE difference between sharing real life information with someone you've already made a social connection with, and sharing it with everyone (the forum bit), or lots of people you don't have much control over (current RealID). And objecting to being forced to share personal information in order to use a feature that doesn't have a reason to use it (cross-realm chat) is not quite the same as never ever giving a real name to anyone anytime. I've met people IRL that I've met through a game too (didn't work out to a marriage, but wasn't a bad experience), that doesn't mean that I have no problem with attaching my RL name to game interactions in a way that I don't tightly control.

Why are you posting under the alias 'Ingmar' and not your real name then, if you're not risk averse about releasing your real name arbitrarily?

At the moment (pending the definitive answering of the RealID mod channel loophole issue) it isn't really accurate to say "Blizzard is exposing their customers to X risk".

Previously personal information would not be exposed unless I chose to give it to someone. Blizzard has now decided to expose it in game, unless I opt-out it's exposed to any malicious add-on, and exposure of personal information is tied to an in-game feature I would like to use. It really is accurate to say that Blizzard is exposing their customers to the risk, they're requiring it for game functions that don't need it, and exposing it to parts of the game that previously could not access personal information.

And how much more do you need to count for a definitive answer do you need for "the RealID mod channel loophole issue'? Mods can get Real ID, it's been demonstrated accidentally by DBM, and is still used internally by it. Mods can communicate information, it's done by too many of them to list. Denying that issue is like denying that a guy sitting in a room with a file of personal information and a cell phone can give the information from that file to anyone because you don't have video of him reading the info over his cell phone.

[Numtini]

For me, it was never, ever about keeping someone from putting the pieces together and tracking me down.  I have a long internet history as this name and anyone who chooses to do so could.  However, that internet history is attached to THIS NAME, not my real one which is my Professional moniker.  It would take more work to link the two than a simple google search, but I know it can be done.  However, that's more work than someone looking for my True Name in a professional capacity is likely to do.

 I'm not going for security-clearance-level of obfuscation, only random client level.  I don't want my game profile to pop up if you're looking for an Architectural opinion or design, I want my professional or public personal profile to do so, which it does.

Perfect description of my feelings. It's like putting the top up and locking the doors on a convertible. I know they can smash the windows or slash the top. It's not real protection, but it's enough protection to keep every one polite.

In terms of how quickly this was reversed, I don't think it has anything to do with cancellations or the gaming press, but has everything to do with it starting to hit the mainstream press which is hot hot hot for privacy violation stories. Next step was Senator Doingitforthechidlren.

[Kail]

In terms of how quickly this was reversed, I don't think it has anything to do with cancellations or the gaming press, but has everything to do with it starting to hit the mainstream press which is hot hot hot for privacy violation stories. Next step was Senator Doingitforthechidlren.

I may be paranoid here, but I keep getting the impression that this is intentional.  It's a sales technique, where if you tell someone something is $x, then when they refuse to buy it, tell them they can have it for $x/2, they're more likely to buy it than if you'd started at that price.

Blizzard has done this kind of thing enough that I'm wondering if it's accidental, or just their way of trying to make changes they know will be unpopular while still looking like "the company that listens to it's player base".

[Azazel]

I had that thought as well. 

[Stabs]

I honestly think they misunderestimated the reaction. People in MMOdom, here as much as anywhere, generally believe that where WoW is concerned outrage does not translate into actual cancellations.

This time it may have done. A couple of commentators on Tobold's blog have reported difficulty accessing the Account Management page as did someone at Something Awful and WUP mentions it above. If Account Management was that busy it could be that large numbers of people were genuinely leaving.

Quite a number of people have said something to the effect of the proposed RealID forum and addon changes and the fear of further development of the system forced them to choose between WoW and their career. Some of us may lose our jobs or face embarrassment at work if "outed" as WoW players. For us we will never now play a Blizzard game where our real names are on the account. We don't trust them not to monetise us.

[Pennilenko]

Quite a number of people have said something to the effect of the proposed RealID forum and addon changes and the fear of further development of the system forced them to choose between WoW and their career. Some of us may lose our jobs or face embarrassment at work if "outed" as WoW players. For us we will never now play a Blizzard game where our real names are on the account. We don't trust them not to monetise us.

I shut down three accounts and phoned in to start the data deletion process from their system. There are too many options for entertainment out there to risk my privacy and professional reputation with a company making the decisions that blizzard is.

Edit: Also if they don't completely scrap their ideas for this type of a system and never go there again, I definitely can avoid ever purchasing a blizzard/activision product ever again.

[Sjofn]

Why are you posting under the alias 'Ingmar' and not your real name then, if you're not risk averse about releasing your real name arbitrarily?

I totally missed the post where Ingmar said this was the greatest idea ever conceived and he's totally cool with his name being plastered everywhere. The post you are referring to was more, "It's fine to say ZOMG THERE ARE COMMON SENSE RULES TO PROTECT YOURSELF, but everyone breaks those." Which I am glad was said, since we had people cheerfully asserting victims of Internet Creeps were "stupid."

[Arthur_Parker]

I honestly think they misunderestimated the reaction. People in MMOdom, here as much as anywhere, generally believe that where WoW is concerned outrage does not translate into actual cancellations.

I suspect that's likely, if about 5 people here cancelled in the first 20 pages of this thread, they had a 2000 page thread.  One of the papers the other day had a study about how your chance of divorce increases by 75% if one of your friends gets divorced, even the friend of a friend increases the chances by something like 35% (I forget the exact figures).  I'm not saying the cancellations would have hurt them that much short term, but long term it might have had a detectable impact.  So hats off to everyone who cancelled, now if only we could get people to stop pro-ordering games and buying any old crap in a box.

[Pantastic]

To provide what is perhaps an extreme example, if either Sjofn or I had been as risk-averse about social contact through the Internet as many (most?) people in this thread seem to be advocating,

I totally missed the post where Ingmar said this was the greatest idea ever conceived and he's totally cool with his name being plastered everywhere. The post you are referring to was more, "It's fine to say ZOMG THERE ARE COMMON SENSE RULES TO PROTECT YOURSELF, but everyone breaks those." Which I am glad was said, since we had people cheerfully asserting victims of Internet Creeps were "stupid."

I totally missed the post where I said Ingmar said the complete nonsense you made up, can you quote it for me? Maybe my memory is going. When you 'paraphrase' my post into complete nonsense, and 'paraphrase' Ingmar's post into something else entirely, it doesn't result in any real discussion.

The post you are referring to from me included a quote from me of what Ingmar said and I objected to. Ingmar said specifically that if either he or Sjofn were as risk averse as many or most people in this thread, they wouldn't have met. But many or most of the people on this thread are objecting to having their name distributed widely and without control, practically no one has said that they are averse to giving out their name to someone online under any circumstances whatsoever. If he is not as risk-averse as people who object to sharing their name widely and without control, then he should have no problem sharing it widely and without control, and if he is averse to that risk, then he actually is as risk averse as most of the people on this thread, in contrast to what I quoted.

[AutomaticZen]

Why are you posting under the alias 'Ingmar' and not your real name then, if you're not risk averse about releasing your real name arbitrarily?

In my case it's not that different for me.  Trust me, you'll get to me googling this forum handle faster than you will googling my real name.

[Tale]

I still don't get what this system is for. My real-life friends and relatives?

I think it's for making the WoW forums sit down and shut up. Turning it into a system is a distraction so the forum users spend their time arguing about what the system is for.

[Arthur_Parker]

If he is not as risk-averse as people who object to sharing their name widely and without control, then he should have no problem sharing it widely and without control, and if he is averse to that risk, then he actually is as risk averse as most of the people on this thread, in contrast to what I quoted.

That doesn't make sense, it's not black and white.

[Sjofn]

If he is not as risk-averse as people who object to sharing their name widely and without control, then he should have no problem sharing it widely and without control, and if he is averse to that risk, then he actually is as risk averse as most of the people on this thread, in contrast to what I quoted.

That doesn't make sense, it's not black and white.

He seems to think the only risk-adverse people in the thread were talking about real names being exposed without permission, and that the post he quotes is isolated completely from any context whatsoever, not part of a conversation about how information is casually shared on places like this board and guild lines, making Real ID almost an afterthought for the people most likely to go wiggy and stalkery: people you think you know.

[Pantastic]

He seems to think the only risk-adverse people in the thread were talking about real names being exposed without permission, and that the post he quotes is isolated completely from any context whatsoever, not part of a conversation about how information is casually shared on places like this board and guild lines, making Real ID almost an afterthought for the people most likely to go wiggy and stalkery: people you think you know.

Nope, you're wrong, what you've posted doesn't match the discussion that's been happening or what I think. If you or Ingmar want to discuss what I've said I'd be happy to engage in a conversation, but this passive-aggressive third person stuff really isn't going to produce anything interesting to anyone.

[Pantastic]

That doesn't make sense, it's not black and white.

It makes perfect sense to me - from my reading of the thread, the majority of people objecting to risk were objecting to it in the context of un- or lightly- controlled release of information like Real ID and the forums change, not to releasing information in a controlled manner to a small number of people. Virtually no one objected to releasing personal information in a limited, controlled context like to individuals you've established a reasonable relationship with. So, the risk aversion demonstrated here was aversion only to a specific kind of reveal, not all relevations. By not posting under his name, it appears that he doesn't choose to engage in the sort of wide release of personal information that most people in this thread are averse to, which puts him in the same broad category.

Maybe you know something that I don't about the posters in this thread since I've just occasionally lurked here before now and don't pay that much attention to individuals, but I'm just responding based on what I've read here.