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f13.net General Forums => World of Warcraft => Topic started by: Xanthippe on June 14, 2010, 08:21:35 AM



Title: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Xanthippe on June 14, 2010, 08:21:35 AM
http://us.battle.net/realid/?rhtml=y

Quote
A New Way to Connect With Your Friends on Battle.net

One of our goals for the new Battle.net is to create the framework for an online gaming experience that is even more accessible, more engaging, and more entertaining than the previous Battle.net. Our new Real ID feature is an integral part of this effort, providing you with advanced ways for forming and maintaining meaningful relationships with your friends on the service.

Real ID is a completely voluntary and optional level of identity that keeps players connected across all of Battle.net. When you and a friend mutually agree to become Real ID friends, you'll have access to a number of additional features that will enrich your social gaming experience in new and exciting ways.

Read the Real ID FAQ (http://us.battle.net/realid/faq.html) for additional details.


  • Real names for friends...
  • Cross game chat...
  • Rich presence...
  • Broadcasts...
  • Friend once, see all characters...



I wonder how secure this will be? 


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kaid on June 14, 2010, 09:12:28 AM
Well unless you have an authenticator probably not very. Seriously I still cannot understand why blizzard chose to use your email address as your username for battlenet. Now with real ID you are giving people your username. For a lot of people guessing their password is not brain surgery. It just seems like a huge security faux paux for a game thats all ready having issues with account theft and hackers.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 14, 2010, 09:32:36 AM
i like being able to see my friends cross game, why i wont be using this is because sometimes i dont want them knowing im ditching their raid to go play alliance.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on June 14, 2010, 10:05:04 AM
i like being able to see my friends cross game, why i wont be using this is because sometimes i dont want them knowing im ditching their raid to go play alliance.

This is definitely part of my concern for the system.  In fact, its the same reason I don't care for facebook/twitter, etc.  I just don't want people to know what I'm doing all the time, nor do I care much what other people are up to.  Sure, it would be nice to shoot the shit with the occasional person while I'm playing Starcraft 2* and they are doing their dailies in WoW, but over all, it isn't that appealing to me.

*I won't be buying SC2, and I just cancelled my WoW subscription again, so this is hypothetical.  Maybe Diablo 3 will get me back into Blizzard games again.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: K9 on June 14, 2010, 10:20:50 AM
Ugh, they've really dropped the ball with this one.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sjofn on June 14, 2010, 10:22:22 AM
i like being able to see my friends cross game, why i wont be using this is because sometimes i dont want them knowing im ditching their raid to go play alliance.

Yeah, pretty much that. I didn't even like the global in CoX for this reason. MOST of the time I am happy to chat or get dragged into instancing when all I wanted to do was dailies or whatever, but once in a while I want to be a hermit, and I hate shit like this that makes it unpossible. Maybe if I could go /anon it would be more appealing, but I won't be able to, so screw it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Nevermore on June 14, 2010, 10:27:53 AM
In CoX the cross faction/server chat is a very nice feature because you can /hide and /ghide if you don't want people to bother you.  WoW is the only MMO I recall playing that doesn't have any kind of /hide function, which makes this Real ID thing even more intrusive.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sjofn on June 14, 2010, 10:41:16 AM
People begged for that function in WoW's beta, too. For whatever reason, they were completely against putting one in. Just one of their weird hang ups or something, I guess!


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on June 14, 2010, 10:42:34 AM
You may as well use it, since I'll be using it and people will just bug me about where you are anyway.  :-P


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sjofn on June 14, 2010, 10:50:21 AM
You can tell them you're not my keeper, so shove off!


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on June 14, 2010, 10:57:44 AM
I wonder how secure this will be?

Roughly the same if you haven't taken any measures to isolate your username email from the internet at large.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Righ on June 14, 2010, 11:41:31 AM
I wonder how long it will be before OCD control freak guild leaders start demanding Real IDs for raid attendees. I guess you just transfer the raid character to a new raid account and keep the personal account personal. It will sell a few more accounts, I'm sure.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on June 14, 2010, 12:24:35 PM
I wonder how long it will be before OCD control freak guild leaders start demanding Real IDs for raid attendees.

I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I don't have a problem saying, "No, I don't want to raid tonight."

Honestly, the only thing Real ID is going to save me is having my friends list full of 8-10 people's alts.  (The cross-game-ness thing isn't that big a deal since these people also know my Xfire/cell number and I'm not a big RTS guy.)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: apocrypha on June 14, 2010, 12:31:24 PM
Yeah, pretty much that. I didn't even like the global in CoX for this reason. MOST of the time I am happy to chat or get dragged into instancing when all I wanted to do was dailies or whatever, but once in a while I want to be a hermit, and I hate shit like this that makes it unpossible. Maybe if I could go /anon it would be more appealing, but I won't be able to, so screw it.

This entirely. Won't be using it because sometimes, just *sometimes* I feel like an antisocial grumpy git and I reserve the right to choose not to inflict that on my friends.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on June 14, 2010, 01:47:39 PM
It does feel like an attempt to be like Facebook.

I can't say it affects me much since the people I'm likely to add can get a hold of me if they really want, and if I'm in a pissy "you probably don't want to chat with me right now" mood I'll warn them.  It does add to my security concerns since we're now tying a real name to a mandatory e-mail address.  It'd be nice if Blizzard starts taking security a bit more seriously if they're going to keep adding real-life data to our accounts.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on June 14, 2010, 02:06:41 PM
Fuck this. I'm glad it's optional, because there's no way I want all my little raid-monkies knowing who, what, or where I am at all times.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Selby on June 14, 2010, 04:45:16 PM
Fuck this. I'm glad it's optional, because there's no way I want all my little raid-monkies knowing who, what, or where I am at all times.
Yup.  I like to go and hide for a reason.  My 10 characters in guild are there so they can find me when I'm playing one of those.  If I am not on a character in my guild, chances are I am either not playing or hiding elsewhere.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on June 24, 2010, 01:36:58 AM
Between the giving out of email addresses and real names, plus the inability to go into anonymous mode, this whole thing seems designed to be as obnoxious as possible. Count me out.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on June 24, 2010, 02:55:33 AM
I'm just using it with people who already know my name and email address anyway, it is pretty convenient for that.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Selby on June 24, 2010, 06:07:32 AM
Count me out.
I did as soon as it came out.  I like being anonymous and no one knowing my real name!


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on June 24, 2010, 06:12:27 AM
I can't tell if this is a good idea, and we as a community just hate the idea of an extra social layer that's impossible to turn off, or if it's just a really shitty idea.

I think it's probably just a shitty idea, but you know kids these days...


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on June 24, 2010, 06:26:05 AM
My friends list consists almost entirely of the characters of the 11 or so people who play WoW and I've known for 5+ years.

With Real ID, my list is sync'd across all characters and I don't have to go "Oh, that's who *Random Level 11 Hunter* is on my list?"  Sure, I could do that before with mods and on the one server/side we all play on.  Now, it's cross-faction, cross-server, and cross-Blizzard-game so I don't have to idle in Vent for "Tell me if you need me." reasons just because my guild leader or friend refuse to use Xfire.

It's not revolutionary in any way, but I like it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Nevermore on June 24, 2010, 09:12:45 AM
If this had aliases, a hide feature and the ability to turn off that 'friends of friends' nonsense it would be a great feature.  As it is, I'll never use it.  A game like this is about competition and conflict and as such breeds way too much drama for having a facebook overlay added to it.  Having aliases works just fine in XBox Live;  I don't see why Blizzard insists on real names for their version.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on June 24, 2010, 09:34:52 AM
My friends list consists almost entirely of the characters of the 11 or so people who play WoW and I've known for 5+ years.

With Real ID, my list is sync'd across all characters and I don't have to go "Oh, that's who *Random Level 11 Hunter* is on my list?"  Sure, I could do that before with mods and on the one server/side we all play on.  Now, it's cross-faction, cross-server, and cross-Blizzard-game so I don't have to idle in Vent for "Tell me if you need me." reasons just because my guild leader or friend refuse to use Xfire.
For your situation that works pretty well.

And if I could use an alias I'd be fine with it.  There's no reason people need to see [real name here] instead of Lantyssa.  I'd happily use it so I could chat with my internet friends across servers.  As is?  Nah.  My name is pretty much unique.  If you know it, you can find me.  If you know a bit of it and a tiny amount of relative information, you can find me.  While there are those I don't mind knowing, neither of us can control it going beyond them, and there are some people I'd like to keep one layer of anonymity with because we're still acquaintances.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: fuser on June 24, 2010, 09:40:45 AM
I concur there has to be some restriction put in place of sharing your id past mutual friends. I don't want anyone knowing my name past a two way handshake I have agreed upon.

Actually my surname could be considered a naming violation in the TOS :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fabricated on June 24, 2010, 09:55:27 AM
I sure do want to give out my identity to friends-of-friends-of-friends. What a shitty implementation. Why not just use a unique ID for battle.net and let you tie THAT to RealID if you want your friends on Facebook or what the fuck ever flavor-of-the-month social network to know you're grinding boar asses?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on June 24, 2010, 10:17:46 AM
Brilliant!  FB spam:  WoWnerd has completed Kill 10 Boars.  WoWnerd has completed Kill 10 Kobolds.  WoWnerd has achieved Obtain Level 2!  WoWnerd has...


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rendakor on June 24, 2010, 10:25:54 AM
What's with the 'friends-of-friends' complaints? Can you really see your RealID friend's friends? If so, how?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sickrubik on June 24, 2010, 10:42:44 AM
What's with the 'friends-of-friends' complaints? Can you really see your RealID friend's friends? If so, how?

From zee FAQ (http://us.battle.net/realid/faq.html)

Quote
What is the "friends of friends" feature of Real ID?
Similar to other social-networking platforms, when you click on one of your Real ID friends, you will be able to see the names of his or her other Real ID friends, even if you are not Real ID friends with those players yourself. If you happen to know someone on that list, you will be able to quickly send a Real ID friend request to that player. This feature is designed to make it easy to populate your Real ID friends list with people you might enjoy playing with.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rendakor on June 24, 2010, 10:47:00 AM
Oh, wow. That's intrusive as fuck. :uhrr: Glad I've only given mine out to people who a) I know in real life and b) are also paranoid.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on June 24, 2010, 10:54:25 AM
The one plus about that is you can right click those people and send them RealID friend requests without having to know their battle.net ID, which is nice.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on June 24, 2010, 12:18:47 PM
From a guy perspective: enh. A little overboard with the friends of friends and no way to disable it. But still, I mostly plan on using this for people who I've pretty much met all of them before and have them on facebook anyways.

From an internet perspective: hello creepy guys friend requesting every female name they can find!  :pedobear:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on June 24, 2010, 12:31:01 PM
You can't actually see anything about the friend of friend people besides the name at least, so while someone might be able to look at my list and see a bunch of names they wouldn't know the characters associated with them.

I do expect them to eventually cave over the privacy criticisms to a certain extent, and make this a little more robust in terms of being able flag yourself to be hidden from friend-of-friend lists and the like. I doubt they'll ever let you use an alias and going anon seems kind of unlikely too since you've never been able to do that in game.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on June 24, 2010, 12:53:06 PM
Or they could go the opposite route and try to tie in farmville and let me upload pictures from our raid kills so all my realid friends can see it!


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on June 24, 2010, 12:56:44 PM
Or they could go the opposite route and try to tie in farmville and let me upload pictures from our raid kills so all my realid friends can see it!

There's already an Armory/Facebook feed app that does that.  :-P

Quote
World of Warcraft Feeds
Share your proudest in-game moments with your real-world friends online with Blizzard's official World of Warcraft application on Facebook. The app lets you share a custom feed of your characters' activity and view the game activity of your friends.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on June 24, 2010, 12:58:32 PM
Man, that's depressing. :(

Also, goes to show how long it's been since I've logged in.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on June 24, 2010, 02:37:49 PM
Yeah, I've decided. This is just getting intrusive for no reason. I don't want my real name out there, I don't want people to know if I'm on another toon or server, and I don't want to be friends with 5 people only to get 50 requests because they are social butterflys.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on June 24, 2010, 03:09:02 PM
Sp...turn off the functionality?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: March on June 24, 2010, 03:42:23 PM
Sp...turn off the functionality?

I guess I'm confused why you couldn't check a box to display a meta-alias?

I'd actually be fine with a few folks seeing "March" is playing  SG2 or on an alt or even on his PvP realm character; but exposing my full name really kinda weirds me out... which means I will not use it, but then why must I employ a binary solution to something that doesn't require a binary approach?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sickrubik on June 24, 2010, 03:43:38 PM
I don't believe there is a way to turn off the RealID functionality.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on June 24, 2010, 03:45:28 PM
I don't believe there is a way to turn off the RealID functionality.

You can actually turn it off through the parental controls if you wanted to not even see the friend requests that you're going to decline.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Koyasha on June 24, 2010, 04:29:59 PM
Real name and email address would be my only two concerns with this system.  I don't want to display those.  Everything else I don't care about.  I can tell people 'no' and I've never liked the ability to hide in games anyway.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sinij on June 24, 2010, 05:55:31 PM
Between the giving out of email addresses and real names, plus the inability to go into anonymous mode, this whole thing seems designed to be as obnoxious as possible. Count me out.

You are crushing my dreams of permanently parking raper van outside your house.

(http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/juice/assets_c/2008/12/free%20candy-thumb-400x196.jpg)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Wolf on June 28, 2010, 06:06:39 AM
I've come up with a real easy solution for this - if you can call me on the phone, we can be RealID friends. Outside of that, no thanks :)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ironwood on June 28, 2010, 06:28:02 AM
Sure.  Gies yer number.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on June 29, 2010, 11:07:06 AM
This *should* have been a way to talk to and group with people from other servers whom you've met through the random dungeon system. Instead it's "You won't need to keep your IM program running as long as you don't have anyone on it you might want to hear from who doesn't play Blizzard games all the time!"


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on June 30, 2010, 07:09:26 AM
One of my gamer buddies brought up a good point about the system that it may be more useful when Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, and WoW are all out at the same time. At that point, we could still organize raids while hacking through demons or shooting up zerg, avoiding the annoying "Stare at your character's ass while everyone waits on the last guy to show up," business.

Currently, I still think the system is horribly invasive and provides no upside. However, I would expect that when people don't fully accept it, they will change some of their options.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sinij on June 30, 2010, 07:13:13 PM
You are nuts if you are going to trust your real name to a bunch of intraweb strangers. If you do - we won't even need autopsy to see what went wrong.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ozzu on July 02, 2010, 01:27:40 AM
I'm already using it for already existing friends who play Blizzard games. I can't say I'm really planning on adding anyone else though.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 02, 2010, 07:05:58 AM
I'm already using it for already existing friends who play Blizzard games. I can't say I'm really planning on adding anyone else though.

But what about when they add friends who add friends who want to BE YOUR FRIENDS!?!?!


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 02, 2010, 07:06:43 AM
Tell them to get bent?  (Yes, I know it discloses my real name to friends of friends, but that doesn't freak me out.)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 02, 2010, 07:35:37 AM
Actually it doesn't. Not on the request, anyway.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 02, 2010, 11:28:05 AM
You can see the names of all your friends' friends, but you can't see what characters belong to them, and you can't go beyond one step, so I couldn't browse my friends' friends' friends.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 05, 2010, 07:14:16 PM
I don't want my real identity out there, some people know some moves!

http://www.break.com/index/wow-gangsta-threatens-ex-guildies.html


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 05, 2010, 07:33:57 PM
Ow!

I seem to remember my eyes hurting like this the last time I clicked one of your links, WUP.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Roentgen on July 05, 2010, 08:28:05 PM
I don't want my real identity out there, some people know some moves!

http://www.break.com/index/wow-gangsta-threatens-ex-guildies.html

Dude this is making me rethink my decision to resub to WoW to play with you.  But my card's already billed so fuck it.

EDIT:  I just watched that video to find out that the person brandishing the jack handle is a fuckin' woman.   :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 05, 2010, 08:34:13 PM

EDIT:  I just watched that video to find out that the person brandishing the jack handle is a fuckin' woman.   :ye_gods:

This was my response as well.  It really wasn't obvious.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 05, 2010, 08:46:57 PM
As soon as I heard "moves" I knew it was going to be gold. When I heard "ninjitsu" it went right to platinum. They reeeally don't make ninjas like they used to.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Roentgen on July 05, 2010, 08:54:25 PM
I have a hard time believing that the hose-beast in that video was serious.  I think it was all tongue in cheek.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Goreschach on July 05, 2010, 09:02:23 PM
This is obviously the work of an incredibly high level troll.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Der Helm on July 06, 2010, 05:00:47 AM
I smiled.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: fuser on July 06, 2010, 09:57:11 AM
Holy crap....

Quote from: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=25626109041&sid=3000
The first and most significant change is that in the near future, anyone posting or replying to a post on official Blizzard forums will be doing so using their Real ID -- that is, their real-life first and last name


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 06, 2010, 10:00:33 AM
Holy crap....

Quote from: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=25626109041&sid=3000
The first and most significant change is that in the near future, anyone posting or replying to a post on official Blizzard forums will be doing so using their Real ID -- that is, their real-life first and last name

Could this be the death of trolling?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 06, 2010, 10:04:34 AM
I love it.

It won't make the official forums any good of course, but the freak-out just in that thread is enough to brighten my day.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Khaldun on July 06, 2010, 10:34:14 AM
It's kind of the death of the official forum, really. Clever from a labor-saving standpoint, and I suspect that is very much the intention: they can cut the community management staff down to a nub that way. This lets them kill their forums without having to actually kill them and take the bad press for that.

Most of my online writing is under my real name, but there is no way in heaven that I want to say anything about WoW on WoW's forums under my real name. Any more than I want anyone but a selected group of people to have any meaningful knowledge of when I'm playing, what I'm doing when I'm playing or anything else.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 06, 2010, 10:39:31 AM
It's kind of the death of the official forum, really. Clever from a labor-saving standpoint, and I suspect that is very much the intention: they can cut the community management staff down to a nub that way. This lets them kill their forums without having to actually kill them and take the bad press for that.

Most of my online writing is under my real name, but there is no way in heaven that I want to say anything about WoW on WoW's forums under my real name. Any more than I want anyone but a selected group of people to have any meaningful knowledge of when I'm playing, what I'm doing when I'm playing or anything else.

Anyone who thinks this is the death of the forums is crazy.  It's going to cut down the signal to noise ratio a lot but think on how much MORE valuable peoples voices will become to devs and blue posts once they realize there are less people inclined to troll.  Oh it'll have a big backlash at first but then people are going to start eating it up, feeling like special snowflakes and soon as numbers on the forums rise again, people will forget what the big deal was anymore.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: LK on July 06, 2010, 10:41:20 AM
It doesn't matter what the change is, people will go apeshit over a "change" until the change is the norm and things go back to normal.

Yeah, I look forward to being able to browse the forums and see far less shit-posting.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 06, 2010, 10:45:46 AM
:facepalm:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Khaldun on July 06, 2010, 10:46:16 AM
The volume of posting will be very small. Which, yes, might be just fine and will certainly improve the signal-to-noise ratio. But I also think very few people will read or use them, and any sense of community (bad and good) will disappear from Blizzard's own forums. Which, again, might be fine. I don't think the main motivation is to increase the quality of the forums.  The main motivation is to remove the forums as a managerial headache and to cut down on the need for community relations staff. In general, my sense is that there is a behind the scenes move to streamline everything about WoW's operations both to save money now and to prototype a management strategy for future projects that will further improve the revenue-to-costs ratio.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sinij on July 06, 2010, 10:49:50 AM
The norm? I wouldn't call this insanity the norm. Internet forums aren't exactly new technology, if RealID model worked we would be all using it by now.

I am not sure if Blizzard can afford to piss off entire player base, gaming grew quite a bit over years and there are studios that can compete and eat Blizzard's lunch. It might take millions and big name like Bioware, but it will happen.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 06, 2010, 10:54:36 AM
When did "people who post on the official forums" become a sizable amount of WoW's population all of a sudden?

The people going apeshit on the official forums are the ones they probably want to get rid of.  The people who are going apeshit here or at EJ admit the forums are mostly useless as-is.  Everyone else probably doesn't give a fuck aside from vague slippery-slope type concerns.

Edit: Grammar.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Maledict on July 06, 2010, 11:03:15 AM
It doesn't matter what the change is, people will go apeshit over a "change" until the change is the norm and things go back to normal.

Yeah, I look forward to being able to browse the forums and see far less shit-posting.

The result will be the exact opposite. The majority of posters on the forums will be kids after this, because most people who work aren't going to risk a prospective employer googling their name and the first result being a page long guild advertisement. I've never posted anything dumb or offensive on the forums, but I'll absolutely be stopping posting once this goes through. It's simply not worth the risk on any level.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Khaldun on July 06, 2010, 11:08:47 AM
The odd thing from my perspective is that Blizzard seems to have decided that their future lies in connecting gaming to social networking and social software. Probably they're looking at Zynga's success and seeing what they think is the future. They're not alone--earlier this year I heard a bunch of MMO devs sort of making the same argument.

I think this is a huge error on Blizzard's part, because they're misunderstanding the difference between their games and casual games. I have no hesitation telling people I play Bookworm or being seen playing it on my iPhone. But WoW, no matter how much they streamline it, is a different kind of activity. I do not want to sit in a public place playing it, do not want to have my colleagues directly track me playing whenever they feel like it, and so on. And I'm someone known in my field as studying this kind of digital media: it's not a secret, I'm not reluctant to talk about MMOs or video games professionally. Imagine the considerable number of players they have who REALLY do not want WoW to be a public part of their lives, a googleable artifact of any kind. Plus the security nightmares involved are considerable. Plus any woman who posts to a WoW forum where her real name is required is gonna get a million wannafuck emails or messages or creepy sweaty notes left in her mailbox.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 06, 2010, 11:14:20 AM
I think this is a huge error on Blizzard's part, because they're misunderstanding the difference between their games and casual games.

People look at Farmville on Facebook and lose their goddamn minds. It's the new .com bomb waiting to happen.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ironwood on July 06, 2010, 11:30:23 AM
Just saw this at Lums.

This Is Wrong.  On So Many Levels.

 :heartbreak:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: LK on July 06, 2010, 11:31:38 AM
The result will be the exact opposite. The majority of posters on the forums will be kids after this, because most people who work aren't going to risk a prospective employer googling their name and the first result being a page long guild advertisement. I've never posted anything dumb or offensive on the forums, but I'll absolutely be stopping posting once this goes through. It's simply not worth the risk on any level.

I have the same cynical outlook on this. I feel like this is going to do some severe damage, but at the same time, I'm trying, hard, to look at this from the other side and give some good reasons for it.

I EXPECT to read doom-casting and hating from everyone else on the internet. I just don't share that rage, because I'm someone who knows what happens when you lose anonymity and become accountable for your activities. I don't think "oh shit now I need to take further steps to maintain secrecy", I think "My actions have consequences now; they always did, and thinking myself anon was a mistake because all it takes is one person with the right tools to take it away. I can't keep doing what I was doing, and need to think about what it is I do from now on." Granted, there are still some things where I've maintained the barest of separation between online and offline identities, and if that barrier was removed, it'd suck, but I know when that barrier is removed I need to adjust how I do things and just move on.

People will make the same debate within themselves when this change goes through, and they will either continue on or stop posting. You want to see the good posters stick around and not let privacy concerns detract. Blizzard likely sees, and has the metrics to back up, the amount of negative posting and general shit that happens on *their forums that they foot the bill for* and want to see it stop.

This sounds like it has more do with the business of a gaming company than the "You know, we should really give this to our player's because it's a good idea." philosophy that dominated Blizzard (and the industry) a decade ago.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 06, 2010, 11:35:41 AM
I like the change because of the sheer comedic value.

I don't like this change because I don't want people knowing my RL info.

I'm curious however if this is a sign of us...all of us here, being the old guard. Are the times changing and suddenly we're the old people complaining about how loud the music is?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rasix on July 06, 2010, 11:36:43 AM
It doesn't matter what the change is, people will go apeshit over a "change" until the change is the norm and things go back to normal.

Yeah, I look forward to being able to browse the forums and see far less shit-posting.

The result will be the exact opposite. The majority of posters on the forums will be kids after this, because most people who work aren't going to risk a prospective employer googling their name and the first result being a page long guild advertisement. I've never posted anything dumb or offensive on the forums, but I'll absolutely be stopping posting once this goes through. It's simply not worth the risk on any level.

Heh, when I mentioned to my boss I had written some game reviews and such (year I went to AGC), he wanted to show them to his teenage son, who was into WoW at the time.  I kept politely putting him off until he stopped asking.  I didn't want him or his son coming here (we treat the new and young so well here) and just wanted to keep this as separate from work as possible.  I don't want my post count becoming part of my review.  I also didn't in particular want him reading anything where I used any sort of colorful language.

Of course, in regards to WoW, I just don't post much if at all on the forums.  I just don't care to have the WoW folks in possession of my first and last name.  Enough of you have it already.

Why can't they just create an account name and do away with all of this real life bullshit? Want to see who a troll is? Click the account and you get all of the characters. Now you have accountability, the ability to be friends on an account level, and anonymity. 


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: LK on July 06, 2010, 11:38:32 AM
I get a sense that many comments will be fueled by people knowing how shitty, presumptive and narrow-minded people can be when armed with certain information that doesn't represent a complete picture.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ironwood on July 06, 2010, 11:45:38 AM
Quote
As these services have become more and more popular, gamers have become part of an increasingly connected and intimate global community – friendships are much more easily forged across long distances, and at events like DreamHack, GamesCom or our own BlizzCon, we’ve seen first-hand how gamers who may have never actually met in person have formed meaningful real-life relationships across borders and oceans.

And now we're going to fucking FORCE them to form these relationships.  The Cunts.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: tmp on July 06, 2010, 11:48:05 AM
Anyone who thinks this is the death of the forums is crazy.  It's going to cut down the signal to noise ratio a lot but think on how much MORE valuable peoples voices will become to devs and blue posts once they realize there are less people inclined to troll.
Suspect you will see the opposite effect if anything -- the idiots won't stop posting just because it gets their name in the open because they're well, idiots and/or want attention anyway. But you will see reduced number of posts from people with at least two brain cells to put together and realize potential disadvantages of having their name published like that.

edit: incidentally,

(http://www.thenoobcomic.com/headquarters/comics/00378_2.jpg)

the punch line, this was published couple months ago. The ways life imitates satire, sometimes...


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 06, 2010, 11:50:14 AM
Anyone who thinks this is the death of the forums is crazy.  It's going to cut down the signal to noise ratio a lot but think on how much MORE valuable peoples voices will become to devs and blue posts once they realize there are less people inclined to troll.
Suspect you will see the opposite effect if anything -- the idiots won't stop posting just because it gets their name in the open because they're well, idiots and/or want attention anyway. But you will see reduced number of posts from people with at least two brain cells to put together and realize potential disadvantages of having their name published like that.

I'll just say this. I do not think the wow forums can get much worse than the cesspit they are now. If blizzard just went and deleted them entirely, I would not shed a tear.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 06, 2010, 11:51:21 AM
I've always hated the protection that anonymity gives to trolls on internet forums, so this is kind of awesome from this standpoint. It does seem like they didn't need to tie it to a real name to kill the low level alt troll/spam though.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 06, 2010, 11:51:32 AM
I'm curious however if this is a sign of us...all of us here, being the old guard. Are the times changing and suddenly we're the old people complaining about how loud the music is?

That's the vibe I'm getting from being on the other end of that divide (for once).  I'm getting ripped apart over at Elitist Jerks for my ambivalence.  It's a lot of:

Other Posters: "This is fucking terrible, how can anyone with more than four brain cells not see how fucking terrible this is?"

Me: "I don't see it as that terrible and I believe myself to have more than four brain cells.  Help me understand?"

Other Posters: "Oh my God, it's so completely obvious!"


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ironwood on July 06, 2010, 12:02:10 PM
I've always hated the protection that anonymity gives to trolls on internet forums, so this is kind of awesome from this standpoint.

Right.

Wait.

STOP.

Explain yourself here.  Why ?  What exactly were you gonna do ?  Let's say David Scottsperson posted the same shit that you normally 'hate'.

What the fuck are you doing at this point ?  What fucking difference is it between STARPRIUS and David that sticks in your craw and, frankly, WHAT IS NOW YOUR REACTION ?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 06, 2010, 12:04:22 PM
Well yes, that's where my second sentence comes in. As long as the consequences aren't tied to the in-game characters it likely doesn't help that much. But I'm still going to find this very entertaining to watch.

EDIT: I should say that it has never really been a big issue with WoW anyway because the server communities just aren't that tight. It is more my hate-nostalgia for the old VN board community around my DAOC server, and how much stupid shit could have been avoided there by not letting people post anonymously.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Khaldun on July 06, 2010, 12:07:48 PM
I dunno, how would you all feel if everyone here had to post under their real names? This is one of the very few forums where I use a pseudonym, and while almost everything I say here is something I'd say under my own name in my public online writing, every once in a while it's nice to be a bit more rhetorically vivid. There are communities which flourish and are interesting and engaging which are also pseudonymous. Anonymity does not always produce fuckwadery: strong communities develop norms over time and enforce them with mods. The point to official forums, in any event, is not to produce lots of informational signal. EJ produces all the informational signal you need as far as information about the game; Blizzard's promotional info on the main page create the rest. Forums are for creating a community. You might argue that the WoW community as a whole is a cesspit. I might not disagree with that. So that's what the forums show you. Chasing people off the forums is not going to make WoW a non-cesspit. But the cesspitness of a community is only possible to grapple with through an official forum: that's where norms of play get named and debated and struggled over, sometimes in meaningful ways that have a meaningful impact over the long haul.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: koro on July 06, 2010, 12:08:13 PM
I posted a fair bit on the Priest forums (my main played class) in the past and recently since Cataclysm info began coming out.

Won't be doing it any more though.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ironwood on July 06, 2010, 12:08:19 PM
But that's not answering the question;

What is now the 'punishment' for Mr Scottsperson ?  

I'll give you 3 fucking guesses, by the way.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: tmp on July 06, 2010, 12:08:36 PM
One more cool part to this system -- minors use accounts which are created by an adult, according to the ToS. The name is tied to the adult's billing info.

WoW subscription for your teenage son... x.xx
forum posting... free
having your employer run across posts on the internet with your name on it and hitting on apparent adolescents, priceless.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 06, 2010, 12:10:13 PM
But that's not answering the question;

What is now the 'punishment' for Mr Scottsperson ? 

I'll give you 3 fucking guesses, by the way.


In this context, probably nothing. In a game with tighter server communities there would (or at least could) be plenty of social consequences from knowing that the anonymous douchebag trolling up the forums is actually that guy over there though.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Goreschach on July 06, 2010, 12:10:56 PM
But that's not answering the question;

What is now the 'punishment' for Mr Scottsperson ?  

I'll give you 3 fucking guesses, by the way.


Isn't it obvious? He's going to write him a strongly worded reply.

Or rather he isn't, because then Scottsperson can call him a noob by name.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 06, 2010, 12:15:48 PM
I've always hated the protection that anonymity gives to trolls on internet forums, so this is kind of awesome from this standpoint. It does seem like they didn't need to tie it to a real name to kill the low level alt troll/spam though.
I agree with tmp.  It won't reduce the trolls at all.  It'll reduce the serious posters, thereby making the boards even worse.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Goreschach on July 06, 2010, 12:17:14 PM
Maybe that's their plan? If they get rid of all the serious posters, and have nothing but trolls left, then they can still just fire all the mods. It'll be like 4chan.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ironwood on July 06, 2010, 12:18:34 PM
Lol, tmp, lol.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 06, 2010, 12:21:16 PM
I've always hated the protection that anonymity gives to trolls on internet forums, so this is kind of awesome from this standpoint. It does seem like they didn't need to tie it to a real name to kill the low level alt troll/spam though.
I agree with tmp.  It won't reduce the trolls at all.  It'll reduce the serious posters, thereby making the boards even worse.

I think it will probably reduce both. I don't see any logical reason to think that it won't discourage at least some of the trolls.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Khaldun on July 06, 2010, 12:34:04 PM
Maybe that's their plan? If they get rid of all the serious posters, and have nothing but trolls left, then they can still just fire all the mods. It'll be like 4chan.

Honestly, I really do think this is the main motivation. It's eliminating most of the labor they put into community management without taking the bad P.R. hit of actually eliminating their forums outright or hiding them from public view a la SWG.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: tmp on July 06, 2010, 12:37:10 PM
I think it will probably reduce both. I don't see any logical reason to think that it won't discourage at least some of the trolls.
Yes, certainly. But since trolls outweight sensible posters by large margin, losing some of both is probably going to affect sensible discussion more. Say if you have 5 decent people and 2 of them quit but at the same time 30 trolls remain out of original 50... one of these activities is more likely to dry up than the other.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ironwood on July 06, 2010, 12:40:08 PM
Take five minutes to google someone who you know and plays WoW.  The information that you can obtain and then put to bad purposes is staggering.

One of my wee female friends has an unusual name and it comes up with her Facebook instantly.  Complete with picture that I can only imagine could be put to some extremely poor geek use.

This change doesn't just remove anonymity from WoW.  Or Starcraft.  This change makes people known across the internet.

This is Offensively Stupid.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 06, 2010, 12:47:27 PM
It doesn't remove anonymity from WoW (or Starcraft II, or any other Blizzard/Activision game it gets added to later), it removes it from their forums.

Now, if you're someone who really likes using the official forums with an assumed name, you should be apoplectic.  Everyone else is just worrying about the slippery slope that honestly, you could get off it before it comes (unlike Facebook's changes without warning).


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 06, 2010, 12:48:24 PM
Yes, certainly. But since trolls outweight sensible posters by large margin, losing some of both is probably going to affect sensible discussion more. Say if you have 5 decent people and 2 of them quit but at the same time 30 trolls remain out of original 50... one of these activities is more likely to dry up than the other.

I actually don't think the numbers are quite that bad but I suppose it depends on which forums we're talking about. The signal to noise ratio in the role forums is a lot better than in General, for example.

Regardless, I'm mostly happy to see someone actually trying this out - I hope they stick with it long enough so we can actually see what the real effects are. Even if it is an outright horrible failure, it will be interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up backing off on at least some of the proposed limitations before fully implementing it, though.

Take five minutes to google someone who you know and plays WoW.  The information that you can obtain and then put to bad purposes is staggering.

One of my wee female friends has an unusual name and it comes up with her Facebook instantly.  Complete with picture that I can only imagine could be put to some extremely poor geek use.

This change doesn't just remove anonymity from WoW.  Or Starcraft.  This change makes people known across the internet.

This is Offensively Stupid.

It seems to me that Facebook and perhaps your friend herself are at least as much to blame for her information and picture being publically searchable as Blizzard would be if this scenario came to pass.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ironwood on July 06, 2010, 12:50:57 PM
You're not right.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Trippy on July 06, 2010, 12:55:56 PM
We need her name to know for sure :awesome_for_real:

In any case people post stupid shit on Facebook and Twitter using their real names (or easily determined real names) all the time. To young people anonymity and privacy are overrated concepts.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 06, 2010, 12:56:38 PM
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25712374700&sid=1&pageNo=34

Quote
One important point which I don't believe has been relayed yet is that the switch to showing RealID on the forums will only happen with the new forum systems we're launching for StarCraft II shortly before its release, and a new forum system for World of Warcraft launching shortly before the release of Cataclysm.

All posts here on the current World of Warcraft forums, or any of our classic Battle.net forums, will remain as-is. They won't (and can't) automatically switch to showing a real first and last name.

All posts in the future on the new forum systems will be an opt-in choice and ample warning will be given that you're posting with your real first and last name.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 06, 2010, 01:01:32 PM
I've always hated the protection that anonymity gives to trolls on internet forums, so this is kind of awesome from this standpoint. It does seem like they didn't need to tie it to a real name to kill the low level alt troll/spam though.

See, I'd like a system where I can click a poster and see all their characters on all servers, because it would attack low level alt trolling (barring idiots who like being known as jackasses, and people willing to pay a 15/month troll tax to have a second account for this crap) by making your idiocy come back and bite you later.

Posting real names though has a huge number of issues attached to it. I know I won't post anymore, because even if I'm just posting normal shit, I don't want my wow posts coming up on a google search for my name. Same reason my facebook is locked down. If you google me, you're probably just going to find professional information and my email address, and that's the way I like it.

I just don't see why a_priest_0007 needs to know my real name to know my opinion on healing efficiency. I'm fine with them being able to see the characters I have, their specs and accomplishments.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fabricated on July 06, 2010, 01:02:30 PM
If you don't think this is a bad idea you are terminally stupid and may want to kill yourself for the good of mankind.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 06, 2010, 01:04:29 PM
One of my wee female friends has an unusual name and it comes up with her Facebook instantly.  Complete with picture that I can only imagine could be put to some extremely poor geek use.
This is one of my concerns.  My name's pretty unique, too, as you know.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 06, 2010, 01:04:40 PM
It's also possible they just want to shut down their forums, and this is a quick way to do so.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 06, 2010, 01:08:29 PM
I just don't see why a_priest_0007 needs to know my real name to know my opinion on healing efficiency. I'm fine with them being able to see the characters I have, their specs and accomplishments.

All the real discussion about that sort of thing takes place on other forums anyway.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: tmp on July 06, 2010, 01:08:40 PM
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25712374700&sid=1&pageNo=34

Quote
All posts in the future on the new forum systems will be an opt-in choice and ample warning will be given that you're posting with your real first and last name.
It's "opt-in" in the sense "you can choose to post or not", isn't it?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fabricated on July 06, 2010, 01:11:46 PM
Even better: Addons can access your full battle.net account name and so on without RealID! (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13816898018&sid=1)

Quote
your battle.net account full name is exposed to all your addons (and thus potentially to anyone) without ever adding any realid friends

proof:
/run for i=1,100 do if BNIsSelf(i)then BNSendWhisper(i,"RealID whisper from yourself..");break end end

note: enabling parental controls on your account will prevent this from working


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ironwood on July 06, 2010, 01:13:30 PM
We need her name to know for sure :awesome_for_real:

In any case people post stupid shit on Facebook and Twitter using their real names (or easily determined real names) all the time. To young people anonymity and privacy are overrated concepts.


Aye, but like the Nitwit above, you're making the same mistake and missing my point.  Sure, there's 'stuff' out there that we all agree and accept as bits of our privacy that we've 'given' away.  But when our Cloud links start conspiring against us, that's just massively unfair  and wrong.

If I post an amusing, yet embarrassing pic of myself on the net for a small audience and then, due to some cockfuck disagreeing with me on a forum, find it shared with 6 million people...  Well, that would suck.  And, by the looks of it, I get two choices.  I give up my infringing entertainment or I...  Actually, I have no fucking idea what the other option is.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ironwood on July 06, 2010, 01:14:40 PM

It's "opt-in" in the sense "you can choose to post or not", isn't it?  :why_so_serious:

That's my major beef here also ;  You don't get a choice.  Give out your papers or hit the fucking road.

It must be fucking great to be John Smith these days.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DLRiley on July 06, 2010, 01:19:13 PM
The result will be the exact opposite. The majority of posters on the forums will be kids after this, because most people who work aren't going to risk a prospective employer googling their name and the first result being a page long guild advertisement. I've never posted anything dumb or offensive on the forums, but I'll absolutely be stopping posting once this goes through. It's simply not worth the risk on any level.

I have the same cynical outlook on this. I feel like this is going to do some severe damage, but at the same time, I'm trying, hard, to look at this from the other side and give some good reasons for it.

I EXPECT to read doom-casting and hating from everyone else on the internet. I just don't share that rage, because I'm someone who knows what happens when you lose anonymity and become accountable for your activities. I don't think "oh shit now I need to take further steps to maintain secrecy", I think "My actions have consequences now; they always did, and thinking myself anon was a mistake because all it takes is one person with the right tools to take it away. I can't keep doing what I was doing, and need to think about what it is I do from now on." Granted, there are still some things where I've maintained the barest of separation between online and offline identities, and if that barrier was removed, it'd suck, but I know when that barrier is removed I need to adjust how I do things and just move on.

People will make the same debate within themselves when this change goes through, and they will either continue on or stop posting. You want to see the good posters stick around and not let privacy concerns detract. Blizzard likely sees, and has the metrics to back up, the amount of negative posting and general shit that happens on *their forums that they foot the bill for* and want to see it stop.

This is stupid. Why have your government name out there? Why? I don't understand this there is no real justification for this and people who think this "ain't" that bad...i mean come on please don't be sheep on this one.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 06, 2010, 01:20:35 PM
Hey, it could always be worse. You know, like letting addons hook into RealID and pull RL names in real time.
Blizzard would never do anything that stupid, right? (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13816898018&sid=1)

Quote
your battle.net account full name is exposed to all your addons (and thus potentially to anyone) without ever adding any realid friends

proof:
/run for i=1,100 do if BNIsSelf(i)then BNSendWhisper(i,"RealID whisper from yourself..");break end end

 :why_so_serious:
e;f,b.

E2: The MMO-C bluetracker is pretty hilarious right now.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ironwood on July 06, 2010, 01:23:18 PM
And, with that, the gold spam I'm forced to listen to in the trade channel is directed straight to my hotmail account.

Fuck all of you.  That's right;  I mean the entire world.

FUCK YOU ALL.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Nevermore on July 06, 2010, 01:23:38 PM
Even better: Addons can access your full battle.net account name and so on without RealID! (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13816898018&sid=1)

Quote
your battle.net account full name is exposed to all your addons (and thus potentially to anyone) without ever adding any realid friends

proof:
/run for i=1,100 do if BNIsSelf(i)then BNSendWhisper(i,"RealID whisper from yourself..");break end end

note: enabling parental controls on your account will prevent this from working

And here I was wondering if I was being too careful using parental controls to disable RealID, aka 'Stalking Made Easy', completely.

As for using real names on forums, now people with RealID privacy concerns can't complain about RealID on the forums anymore.  Thus, Blizzard will have 'proof' that people accept the invasion of privacy because no one is complaining anymore!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 06, 2010, 01:24:08 PM
Yeah the addon thing is a pretty massive  :facepalm:.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ironwood on July 06, 2010, 01:24:24 PM
lol


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 06, 2010, 01:24:28 PM
Hey, it could always be worse. You know, like letting addons hook into RealID and pull RL names in real time.
Blizzard would never do anything that stupid, right? (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13816898018&sid=1)

Quote
your battle.net account full name is exposed to all your addons (and thus potentially to anyone) without ever adding any realid friends

proof:
/run for i=1,100 do if BNIsSelf(i)then BNSendWhisper(i,"RealID whisper from yourself..");break end end

 :why_so_serious:

e;f,b.

Not really seeing a huge issue with this, exactly. In theory someone could write a shit mod to harvest this. In reality, I don't see a reason to do so. The EU thread however is hilarious about how people are convinced you can buy things online with just someone's full name, and somehow saddle that person with the bill and legally require them to pay it. Which is.. silly in any logical court system. Because it's obvious the name used doesn't need to be real, and I could just buy things as Jon Smith all day long and some random asshole would get the bill.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 06, 2010, 01:27:15 PM
Chinese accountstealing bot, go!
initialsurname@gmaill.com (dictionary pass for pw)
initialsurname@hotmail.com
initialsurname@yahoo.com
intialsurname1@gmail.com

etc etc


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 06, 2010, 01:30:48 PM
Yeah that would seem to be the major risk with both the mod loophole and the forum posting thing. Certainly if you have an easily guessed email address you shouldn't be posting on the new forums without an authenticator protecting your account at least.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 06, 2010, 01:35:36 PM
some of us like to live dangerously.

One day you'll log in, and all the glass vials will be GONE.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 06, 2010, 01:40:11 PM
If I actually have to sign up for a RealID account to play the game. I'm quitting. That would be the bright bold line they can't make me cross in the name of entertainment. If it's just a forum thing I don't give a shit because I never used them anyway.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 06, 2010, 01:44:48 PM
You already have a Real ID on your Battle.net account, it's the name on your account.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fordel on July 06, 2010, 01:45:06 PM
This is fucking Clown Shoes.




Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 06, 2010, 01:52:18 PM
You already have a Real ID on your Battle.net account, it's the name on your account.

It's not displayed for the world to see, nor is it accessible in the game via addons atm.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Minvaren on July 06, 2010, 01:53:50 PM
I'm curious however if this is a sign of us...all of us here, being the old guard. Are the times changing and suddenly we're the old people complaining about how loud the music is?

The times have changed, and the music has too.  But I swear I signed up for an MMOG and seem to now be playing a Facebook game.  :geezer:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 06, 2010, 01:59:47 PM
You already have a Real ID on your Battle.net account, it's the name on your account.

It's not displayed for the world to see, nor is it accessible in the game via addons atm.
You've turned on the parental controls?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 06, 2010, 02:01:22 PM
You already have a Real ID on your Battle.net account, it's the name on your account.

It's not displayed for the world to see, nor is it accessible in the game via addons atm.
You've turned on the parental controls?

I know a few people who have, since that's the only really concrete opt-out they have at the moment.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lum on July 06, 2010, 02:01:58 PM
Even better: Addons can access your full battle.net account name and so on without RealID! (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13816898018&sid=1)

WoW addons are sandboxed pretty heavily. I don't think there's any way to actually communicate your RealID (or anything else) to a third party outside the game. It could concievably spam it in game but I think that's about it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 06, 2010, 02:05:51 PM
Even better: Addons can access your full battle.net account name and so on without RealID! (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13816898018&sid=1)

WoW addons are sandboxed pretty heavily. I don't think there's any way to actually communicate your RealID (or anything else) to a third party outside the game. It could concievably spam it in game but I think that's about it.

Presumably it could communicate it to another person running the same mod on your server, though, since I know mods use chat channels to talk to themselves - this is how Gatherer passes on node information to people you're sharing with, for example. Or at least, that is how it used to work, I haven't looked into that stuff in a long while.

So theoretically at least, I think some hacker dude could be manually listening in on such things.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 06, 2010, 02:43:57 PM
Or just dump it to a private chat channel and parse the logs generated.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Numtini on July 06, 2010, 02:47:15 PM
I really truly can't believe that Blizzard is this stupid. It's really incredible.

I'm a big defender of the the reality that adults play these games. But WoW isn't exactly the most adult oriented MMO and it's not small enough to fly under the radar. I can't imagine we're not going to see "Children's personal information revealed on internet by video game company" stories. Maybe Senator Droopy Dog can hold some hearings on it.

On a personal note, I really try to keep personal information separate from games because I work for the local government in a very small town and everyone and their mother thinks they have some inalienable right to investigate everything about me and run my life because they pay taxes.

So by enabling parental controls everything gets turned off?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 06, 2010, 02:55:00 PM
So by enabling parental controls everything gets turned off?

From http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=33186 (http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=33186):

Quote
If Real ID is disabled via Parental Controls, your child will not be able use Real ID functions, and only their in-game character name will be displayed when communicating with anyone.

On the AddOn thing, there's really no way around having an API call for it.  If they didn't, the chat box and social panels (at the very least) would be completely unmoddable.

That said, it's an easy thing to check for and if you only use mainsteam mods, there's no reason for them to get added to it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: tmp on July 06, 2010, 03:11:04 PM
Not really seeing a huge issue with this, exactly. In theory someone could write a shit mod to harvest this. In reality, I don't see a reason to do so.
It's the intrawebs; when was reason mandatory for something to happen on it?

If it can be done, it will be done. And someone will make rule34 pics of it, too.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fordel on July 06, 2010, 03:19:18 PM
I like how Real ID went from "something you only use for your in real life friends you already know" to global identifier in all of two weeks.


 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: LK on July 06, 2010, 03:26:35 PM
I imagine we'll start seeing Parental and Privacy Controls soon.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 06, 2010, 03:31:19 PM
And, with that, the gold spam I'm forced to listen to in the trade channel is directed straight to my hotmail account.

Fuck all of you.  That's right;  I mean the entire world.

FUCK YOU ALL.


You wouldn't say that to our face if you were posting under your real name. :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 06, 2010, 04:01:50 PM
I'm guessing at the very least they'll probably back the tech support forums out from this policy, but given the response to the official forum post it may be back to the drawing board entirely.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 06, 2010, 04:14:22 PM
 :awesome_for_real:

WoW Players: "Hey, does this mean that bluenames are going to give out their RL names too?"
Bashiok: "Sure. In fact, I am so certain that this is a non-issue that I'm going to tell you my RL name is Micah Whipple"
WoW Players: "*About 30 seconds later* This Micah Whipple? *Lists his address, phone number, family members, Facebook, a whole bunch of other personal details*"


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: proudft on July 06, 2010, 04:21:52 PM

Someone dug up some traffic infractions on the guy too (lapsed registration).  That was fast.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 06, 2010, 04:24:59 PM
:awesome_for_real:

WoW Players: "Hey, does this mean that bluenames are going to give out their RL names too?"
Bashiok: "Sure. In fact, I am so certain that this is a non-issue that I'm going to tell you my RL name is Micah Whipple"
WoW Players: "*About 30 seconds later* This Micah Whipple? *Lists his address, phone number, family members, Facebook, a whole bunch of other personal details*"

I like that they got the wrong dude apparently to start, which brings up the interesting idea of some random dude getting hate mail/email over a ninja on a raid for a game he doesn't even play.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 06, 2010, 04:26:27 PM
I'm guessing at the very least they'll probably back the tech support forums out from this policy, but given the response to the official forum post it may be back to the drawing board entirely.

You've been able to just email Support directly so I don't see why there's a Tech Support forum at all at this point.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 06, 2010, 04:28:01 PM
I'm guessing at the very least they'll probably back the tech support forums out from this policy, but given the response to the official forum post it may be back to the drawing board entirely.

You've been able to just email Support directly so I don't see why there's a Tech Support forum at all at this point.

Being able to search through for other people who had your same problem is a pretty massive advantage over waiting for some busy IT dude to reply to your message.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 06, 2010, 04:30:48 PM
For those of us with Comcast, the tech support forums are also used to get our point across when the routing gets all fucked up per usual. It's actually a pretty useful forum because there's usually a tech support dude trolling it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 06, 2010, 04:33:52 PM
I think the funniest thing will be the inevitable lawsuits* and watching whoever's pet project this is keep twisting and turning trying to find loopholes to keep RealID alive. I'm betting it's the same person who came up with the integrated voice chat and the retard rocks.  :grin:

*As a layman who has to do yearly training on the Data Protection Act, it's very possible that it will break that particular UK law purely by existing.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: proudft on July 06, 2010, 04:36:28 PM
Maybe it's the guy who invented arenas!   :grin:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 06, 2010, 04:37:05 PM
I think the funniest thing will be the inevitable lawsuits* and watching whoever's pet project this is keep twisting and turning trying to find loopholes to keep RealID alive. I'm betting it's the same person who came up with the integrated voice chat and the retard rocks.  :grin:

summoning stones, or lock shards? Because one of those was awesome at the time.

If you were going for "keeping shitty idea alive", I'd have gone with end of TBC/early wrath Arena. Someone did a lot of stupid stupid shit to try and make sure people played arenas and tried to make it an esport.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fabricated on July 06, 2010, 04:43:27 PM
This is the retarded baby of some dumb executive who saw a CNN story about "The Facebook" being popular and decided that WoW better get in on this "social network craze" to remain relevant.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 06, 2010, 04:46:15 PM
This is the retarded baby of some dumb executive who saw a CNN story about "The Facebook" being popular and decided that WoW better get in on this "social network craze" to remain relevant.

I find the idea of an executive being terrified of WOW becoming irrelevant to be hilarious.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fordel on July 06, 2010, 04:54:09 PM
God damn facebook.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: LK on July 06, 2010, 04:57:37 PM
I feel like an idiot every time I try to come up with a competent opinion on this subject.

I just want to watch it happen and see what the outcome is, popcorn in hand.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fabricated on July 06, 2010, 05:03:38 PM
This is the retarded baby of some dumb executive who saw a CNN story about "The Facebook" being popular and decided that WoW better get in on this "social network craze" to remain relevant.

I find the idea of an executive being terrified of WOW becoming irrelevant to be hilarious.
I guarantee that's it. Some executive is looking at subscriber numbers and saying, "What's up with the numbers? I mean, it's been at 12 million for nearly a year! In the previous years subscribers increased by blah-blah-blah percent!" while not understanding that that a single-digit percentage of those total subs would make any other MMO a ROUSING success.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 06, 2010, 05:09:29 PM
I just saw this.  Fuck.

This is really stupid.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Merusk on July 06, 2010, 05:37:49 PM
Here I thought the next boneheaded move they were going to make was ramming Real I.D. down everyone's throats by making it mandatory.  Way to raise the bar and show how you're the industry leader by surpassing all expectations, bozos.

I, too, blame this as the brain-fart of an executive who only has a passing knowledge of this 'internet thing' they're making shitloads of money off of.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 06, 2010, 05:55:14 PM
Bobby Kotick?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Selby on July 06, 2010, 06:00:57 PM
I like having a name that doesn't pop up on Google or any other search engines.  Doesn't mean I want anyone knowing it.  Only 2 people on these forums know it, and no one anywhere else on forums I post or sites I frequent does.  All my WoW friends are bugging me to add them to their RealID and I say a resounding "NO."


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Merusk on July 06, 2010, 06:17:48 PM
Yeah, my name is my professional I.D.  There's a reason I've used a pseudonym for years. I'm not in IT, Game Dev or any of the electronic medias where this kind of hobby is accepted and normal.   Nobody wants to hire an Architect who plays fantasy video games in his downtime.  I imagine the same is true of Lawyers, CPAs and Engineers. 

Hell, if I Google you and your armory/ wow info pops up before your professional page, you're pretty much out of the running for anything, ever.   This is not an uncommon sentiment if you recall the anecdote Trippy related last year.   Yeah, one guy and all but it's not an uncommon sentiment among those over 45 who also happen to hold the purse strings.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: MisterNoisy on July 06, 2010, 06:35:39 PM
There are times I'm glad I have about the world's most pedestrian/common name(s).


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Selby on July 06, 2010, 07:18:08 PM
I imagine the same is true of Lawyers, CPAs and Engineers.
Yup.  My 50 year old boss and 50-60 year old co-workers don't understand this and I sure as hell am not going to try and explain it.  Only one person at work knows, and he guessed because he is 28 and says a lot of other people at work in other departments play it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sjofn on July 06, 2010, 07:35:29 PM
I dunno about putting "engineers" in there. Depends on the kind of engineer. My sister's circle of mechanical engineer friends is packed to the gills with dorky gamers.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Evil Elvis on July 06, 2010, 07:52:41 PM
http://wowriot.gameriot.com/blogs/Americans-are-bad-at-games/Real-Names-on-the-Official-Forums-New-REAL-ID-function?gr_i_ni

 :drill:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 06, 2010, 08:10:04 PM
I think Kotick needs to get acquainted with your friendly neighborhood personal army.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Hawkbit on July 06, 2010, 08:14:36 PM
I've been trying to think of ways to not go back to WoW when the xpac hits.  I just found it. 

I'm not going to go all *RABBLE RABBLE* or anything, just that this doesn't sit well with me personally from a privacy standpoint.  I was on the fence about SC2 as well, and now I don't have to make that decision either. 

I understand that most people can be found regardless if one does enough searching.  But I don't understand why Blizzard wants to put it right out there.  It's just mind boggling.  W/e.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rasix on July 06, 2010, 09:02:30 PM
I was on the fence about SC2 as well, and now I don't have to make that decision either.  

They've said they're removing Real ID for adding friends in SC2.  It's an account name + random 3 digit number as an identifier to add someone.  So, to add me you'd just need to know "Rasix.001" or some nonsense.  I don't see why they can't just do unique names. If someone snags your name, just add a fucking "1" or "X" or whatever.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Vision on July 06, 2010, 10:06:54 PM
http://wowriot.gameriot.com/blogs/Americans-are-bad-at-games/Real-Names-on-the-Official-Forums-New-REAL-ID-function?gr_i_ni

 :drill:

Funniest thing I've read in a loooooong time......albeit a little sad.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 06, 2010, 10:11:44 PM
I was on the fence about SC2 as well, and now I don't have to make that decision either.  

They've said they're removing Real ID for adding friends in SC2.  It's an account name + random 3 digit number as an identifier to add someone.  So, to add me you'd just need to know "Rasix.001" or some nonsense.  I don't see why they can't just do unique names. If someone snags your name, just add a fucking "1" or "X" or whatever.

Huh?  I actually liked the original SC2 model (which is now the WoW model) of Real ID friends and Profile-only friends. :uhrr:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rasix on July 06, 2010, 10:16:59 PM
I was mistaken.  They're keeping Real ID, but they're adding an actual functional way to profile friends.  During the last phase you could only add someone if you were in the same game through an invite and right clicked their portrait.  Which pretty much made it impossible to just add people without some odd coordination.  

So yah, it's Real ID + what I outlined above.  It's just replacing the account identifier with a 3 digit number.   Which, IMO, makes Real ID somewhat of a non issue in SC2.  Well, unless you post on the forums.  :awesome_for_real:  The SC2 community, however, has a lot of forums already in use outside of battle.net.

We'll see how well it works once beta comes back up.  COME BACK UP, BETA.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 06, 2010, 10:20:37 PM
I was mistaken.  They're keeping Real ID, but they're adding an actual functional way to profile friends.  During the last phase you could only add someone if you were in the same game through an invite and right clicked their portrait.  Which pretty much made it impossible to just add people without some odd coordination. 

Shows how good a Beta tester I was/am :awesome_for_real:.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 06, 2010, 11:34:00 PM
In the spirit of Caylem Burroughs
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/art-of-warcraft/epic-mounts-love.php

I'm looking forward enormously to making a new WoW account for Cataclysm with the purpose of begging gold from people I meet.  After all who wouldn't give generously to someone who's real name is Megan Fox? It's not as if anyone could simply buy a game card with cash then type whatever name they choose, it's a RealID, it says "real" in the name so it must be real.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: apocrypha on July 06, 2010, 11:47:50 PM
This is just a way for them to downsize their forum moderaters. Number of posts per day after this change goes through will be a fraction of a % of the current number, which means 90% staff cuts from the mods. And after all their real names, addresses, phone numbers, employment histories and family members have been made public those 90% won't mind all that much to be losing those particular jobs.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 07, 2010, 12:00:31 AM
This is just a way for them to downsize their forum moderaters. Number of posts per day after this change goes through will be a fraction of a % of the current number, which means 90% staff cuts from the mods. And after all their real names, addresses, phone numbers, employment histories and family members have been made public those 90% won't mind all that much to be losing those particular jobs.

I've been thinking about this and I actually don't think this will let them downsize their mod group. If anything it will mean they're going to have to moderate much more closely, I suspect, in order to screen for kids posting on a parent's account, racial slurs now that people's ethnicity will be at least somewhat apparent (particularly anti-Asian ones, as that particular prejudice seems to run deep in the WoW player base), etc. It will be easier if traffic is driven down, certainly, but I don't think they will be using less people to do it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 07, 2010, 05:30:03 AM
Especially as you don't need to sign in to read the forums, only to post there.  :popcorn:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 07, 2010, 06:23:06 AM
Yeah, my name is my professional I.D.  There's a reason I've used a pseudonym for years. I'm not in IT, Game Dev or any of the electronic medias where this kind of hobby is accepted and normal. 

Often people in the biz consider WoW to be a strike against a prospective employee. I know at least one QA manager who does.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: AutomaticZen on July 07, 2010, 06:39:59 AM
There are times I'm glad I have about the world's most pedestrian/common name(s).

Ditto.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: fuser on July 07, 2010, 07:03:08 AM
I wonder whats next? Perhaps they will migrate the old forum posting data over to the new forums with no choice.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Outlawedprod on July 07, 2010, 07:17:31 AM
There are times I'm glad I have about the world's most pedestrian/common name(s).

I just feel bad for people with names that gamers will make jokes about.  I mean surely there's some Mike Hunts, Peter Gozinyas, and Heather Feltersnatchs out there right?

Female perspective?
http://www.metafilter.com/93492/But-my-name-really-is-Deathblood-Blackaxe#3171416


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DLRiley on July 07, 2010, 07:24:23 AM
I like how Real ID went from "something you only use for your in real life friends you already know" to global identifier in all of two weeks.


 :oh_i_see:

don't worry it sounds worth than it really is  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 07, 2010, 07:33:22 AM
Can they ban you from the forums if your legal name really is Adolf Hitler?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: SnakeCharmer on July 07, 2010, 07:36:06 AM
don't worry it sounds worth than it really is  :awesome_for_real:

When did you develop a lisp?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DLRiley on July 07, 2010, 07:42:14 AM
don't worry it sounds worth than it really is  :awesome_for_real:

When did you develop a lisp?

The lisp is for wow threads and clowns shoes threads, which this thread has a 2 for one special one  :grin:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 07, 2010, 07:51:13 AM
I get the feeling that I'm going to need a RealID just to log into the single player version of Diablo 3. But it's all so I can have the opportunity to post about my successes to Facebook. That's it. No other reason. Don't look behind the curtain.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 07, 2010, 08:00:49 AM
I get the feeling that I'm going to need a RealID just to log into the single player version of Diablo 3. But it's all so I can have the opportunity to post about my successes to Facebook. That's it. No other reason. Don't look behind the curtain.


Yeah, I think its about social network (facebook) integration.  Its already in the SC2 beta, and I'm sure its going to be part of Diablo 3.   Frankly, I think this is the end of buying Blizzard products for me.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Wolf on July 07, 2010, 08:26:42 AM
btw, you can turn off the facebook <-> starcraft friendlist sync thing. Account -> Privacy Settings -> Custom -> Customize Settings -> under "Contact Infomration" youremail -> only me -> save :)

I won't have people from high school adding me and going LETS PLAY 2S! Awesome :)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 07, 2010, 08:31:44 AM
btw, you can turn off the facebook <-> starcraft friendlist sync thing. Account -> Privacy Settings -> Custom -> Customize Settings -> under "Contact Infomration" youremail -> only me -> save :)

I won't have people from high school adding me and going LETS PLAY 2S! Awesome :)

Oh I don't have a facebook account anyway, so that isn't the problem. Its just the overall direction that bothers me.  Then again, I was upset with SC2 when there would be no chat in bnet 2.0.  Then they announced they would add chat.  If they take this back, I'll consider getting on board again, if they don't, well, I've got plenty of other good games to play.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Draegan on July 07, 2010, 11:01:51 AM
Oh hi.

Now I get it. (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2010/05/blizzard-and-facebooks-friendly-social-networking-deal-launches-with-starcraft-ii-/1)



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 07, 2010, 11:02:52 AM
It's going to be amazing to watch the reaction from Blizzard when the first "Tracking from SC2/WoW via Facebook to RL" murder happens.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: tmp on July 07, 2010, 11:10:42 AM
It's going to be amazing to watch the reaction from Blizzard when the first "Tracking from SC2/WoW via Facebook to RL" murder happens.
I have to wonder if their PR people are shitting bricks in anticipation of headlines like "Man beaten up over a computer game thanks to company revealing his personal data".


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 07, 2010, 11:13:05 AM
Man beaten up? Oh no...it'll be much, much worse than that.  This opens the door for a lot of nastiness.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 07, 2010, 11:15:39 AM
but not for Blizzard employees, apparently (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25626460694&sid=1)
Quote
This post WILL get deleted, Im just trying to get this information out so other people will realize how much Blizzard is screwing us over.

After a long talk with a few Blizzard phone reps, it turns out BLUES will NOT have their real names posted in the forums due to "Security Concerns." Blues are free to hide from the nightmare RealID will turn these forums into, and yet we, the paying customers, will be forced into it?

Thats right everyone, YOU will have to reveal your real name in order to post on these forums. Blues, on the other hand "Cannot risk having their personal lives compromised by in-game issues" (Thanks, Josh with no last name - thats a gem).

I have already canceled my account and filed a complaint with the ESRB about all of this, I suggest you do the same.
(http://i26.tinypic.com/30bkxok.jpg)


E: Muad'dib, we have mediasign - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10543100.stm


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: proudft on July 07, 2010, 11:47:47 AM
I find it difficult to believe that random people on the Blizzard phone line have any idea what the policy will be for something that is months away and has just generated such a shitstorm.   I find it much easier to believe this person made up & posted something in the hopes of provoking a statement from Blizzard one way or the other.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Goreschach on July 07, 2010, 11:55:12 AM
I'm now really hoping this thing goes through, just so I can enjoy all the butthurt.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 07, 2010, 11:57:02 AM
I'm now really hoping this thing goes through, just so I can enjoy all the butthurt.
Post your RL name.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: AutomaticZen on July 07, 2010, 12:04:09 PM
I already post on a forum with my real life name.  Why would I care?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sickrubik on July 07, 2010, 12:13:35 PM
E: Muad'dib, we have mediasign - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10543100.stm

Quote
One World of Warcraft player, Jim Brand, contacted BBC News to say how disappointed he was over the change.

"I have been using the forums for over five years, reporting bugs and trying to be helpful. Now, to have the privilege to help people on the forums I have to reveal my real name; I'm dead against it," he said.

"I work in a charity and deal with governments officials. If they do a search and see I am a gamer, it could affect my employment prospects," he added.

:oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 07, 2010, 12:17:06 PM
Incidentally, that story is now the third most read on the BBC News page.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 07, 2010, 12:18:14 PM
I already post on a forum with my real life name.  Why would I care?

Because that's an obscure environment where doubtless few people give a shit. It's way different than having all your gaming habits posted to a Facebook account for every friend and potential client/employer to gaggle about what you might do in your free time. It could be used for any number of ridiculous things from harassment to racism to RL insanity, not to mention the inevitable hackings involved with having email addresses, real names, and credit cards all tied together in neat little packages.

The truth is, even if there's nothing that you believe is horribly invasive about the policy, it's still providing more data than is necessary to play a fucking game. They don't need to make any of our real life data public for the game to function. It's a needless risk for almost no real reward.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 07, 2010, 12:27:11 PM
E: Muad'dib, we have mediasign - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10543100.stm

Quote
One World of Warcraft player, Jim Brand, contacted BBC News to say how disappointed he was over the change.

"I have been using the forums for over five years, reporting bugs and trying to be helpful. Now, to have the privilege to help people on the forums I have to reveal my real name; I'm dead against it," he said.

"I work in a charity and deal with governments officials. If they do a search and see I am a gamer, it could affect my employment prospects," he added.

:oh_i_see:


need a bigger  :facepalm:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 07, 2010, 12:30:21 PM
The truth is, even if there's nothing that you believe is horribly invasive about the policy, it's still providing more data than is necessary to play a fucking game. They don't need to make any of our real life data public for the game to function. It's a needless risk for almost no real reward.

That's a bit like saying FrontierVille shouldn't be spammy.  It is what it is.

Going forward you can either play with most of the Real ID-stuff turned off or just play something else.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 07, 2010, 12:33:01 PM
If I'm forced to use my RL name, then I think I should make sure all my RL causes are prominently displayed, too.  Time for... The GLBT Avenger!  Which will probably lead to some homophobe murdering me because they can track me down with a ten second search.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Minvaren on July 07, 2010, 12:33:30 PM
Oh hi.

Now I get it. (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2010/05/blizzard-and-facebooks-friendly-social-networking-deal-launches-with-starcraft-ii-/1)

Quote
Absolutely. Our goal and vision in this partnership is to really to cross-populate the social networks and to easily find and add your friends from Facebook onto the new Battle.net service as the first step and extending it to other features in the future. … Later on, of course, we have lots of things we are talking about with Facebook. We haven't announced anything specific, but we have lots of ideas about ways to cross-populate and share data between the two services.

I've got a bad feeling about this...


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: AutomaticZen on July 07, 2010, 12:45:35 PM
Because that's an obscure environment where doubtless few people give a shit. It's way different than having all your gaming habits posted to a Facebook account for every friend and potential client/employer to gaggle about what you might do in your free time.
It'd be posting to my Facebook account...in a feature I can turn off. 

Quote
It could be used for any number of ridiculous things from harassment to racism to RL insanity, not to mention the inevitable hackings involved with having email addresses, real names, and credit cards all tied together in neat little packages.
That shit's already a fuckstorm prior to this. 

Quote
The truth is, even if there's nothing that you believe is horribly invasive about the policy, it's still providing more data than is necessary to play a fucking game. They don't need to make any of our real life data public for the game to function. It's a needless risk for almost no real reward.
You can play the game fucking fine without revealing RealID shit.  Or is posting on the forums the new game? 


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 07, 2010, 12:46:08 PM
Oh hi.

Now I get it. (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2010/05/blizzard-and-facebooks-friendly-social-networking-deal-launches-with-starcraft-ii-/1)

Quote
Absolutely. Our goal and vision in this partnership is to really to cross-populate the social networks and to easily find and add your friends from Facebook onto the new Battle.net service as the first step and extending it to other features in the future. … Later on, of course, we have lots of things we are talking about with Facebook. We haven't announced anything specific, but we have lots of ideas about ways to cross-populate and share data between the two services.

I've got a bad feeling about this...


This shouldn't come as a surprise, ever since they mentioned it being added to the SC2 beta, which was probably at least 2 months ago now, and maybe longer, it was pretty obvious they were going to go in this direction.  I think the real names on the forums thing is a particularly bad result and is rightly angering people, but it shouldn't be surprising that they want to integrate battle net with facebook in general.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 07, 2010, 12:52:57 PM
You can play the game fucking fine without revealing RealID shit.
WRONG (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=19381.msg817928#msg817928) but thank you for playing.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Furiously on July 07, 2010, 12:53:22 PM
I just wonder how long until someone goes to someone's real house and beats them up because of this.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: AutomaticZen on July 07, 2010, 12:57:52 PM
You can play the game fucking fine without revealing RealID shit.
WRONG (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=19381.msg817928#msg817928) but thank you for playing.

Well then that shit needs to be fixed.

The rest of it, again, why the fuck would I care?  Was everyone here a WoW forum warrior or something?  I never touched the damn thing.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Goreschach on July 07, 2010, 01:06:37 PM
You can play the game fucking fine without revealing RealID shit.
WRONG (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=19381.msg817928#msg817928) but thank you for playing.

Well then that shit needs to be fixed.


Why is that even a problem? It's like trying to blame firefox for suspect plugins. In either case the solution is simple, don't download and run shit you don't trust.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 07, 2010, 01:22:13 PM
You can play the game fucking fine without revealing RealID shit.
WRONG (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=19381.msg817928#msg817928) but thank you for playing.

Well then that shit needs to be fixed.

The rest of it, again, why the fuck would I care?  Was everyone here a WoW forum warrior or something?  I never touched the damn thing.

Here's my real fear:

This shit is only "optional" now because they are testing it in the WoW community before they release the other games. What they want to do is force to sign up for a Battlenet account and access the game with a persistent internet connection that displays your real name when you're logged in, so they can tell who is trying to pirate their precious game, and get paid by their facebook partners. That's not optional. That's where this is heading.

 :tinfoil:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 07, 2010, 01:31:38 PM
And who the hell is forcing anyone to play that?

That's really what I don't get about the slippery slope-type arguments.  It's not like there aren't alternatives out there if Blizzard goes completely off the reservation.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 07, 2010, 01:31:58 PM


The rest of it, again, why the fuck would I care?  Was everyone here a WoW forum warrior or something?  I never touched the damn thing.

Because its about the principle of it, not that it would personally effect me.  


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 07, 2010, 01:33:22 PM
And who the hell is forcing anyone to play that?

That's really what I don't get about the slippery slope-type arguments.  It's not like there aren't alternatives out there if Blizzard goes completely off the reservation.

Since when does the fact that there alternatives out there excuse shitty behavior?  Its like saying "I don't get why people are pissed at BP, they can buy gas from another company" :awesome_for_real:

Edit: NO, I'm not actually comparing the two things directly, so skip that post you were about to make.  My point is, bad behavior by a company doesn't suddenly become a non issue because there are other options.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 07, 2010, 01:36:18 PM
And who the hell is forcing anyone to play that?

That's really what I don't get about the slippery slope-type arguments.  It's not like there aren't alternatives out there if Blizzard goes completely off the reservation.

Since when does the fact that there alternatives out there excuse shitty behavior?  Its like saying "I don't get why people are pissed at BP, they can buy gas from another company" :awesome_for_real:

Because the existence of alternatives allows people to vote with their wallets.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 07, 2010, 01:38:06 PM
Because most of the alternatives look to WoW for ideas?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DLRiley on July 07, 2010, 01:39:10 PM
god i hate wow.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rendakor on July 07, 2010, 01:42:18 PM
There really aren't alternatives out there, especially in the MMO scene. Unless you like broken shit or spreadsheets, its WoW or bust.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 07, 2010, 01:42:53 PM
Because most of the alternatives look to WoW for ideas?

Alternative video games, sure.

But if my options for leisure activities are: be anally probed by Blizzard, be anally probed by NCSoft, or read a book... I can always just read a book.  If the video games socially-integrate themselves (or whatever the marketing-speak is) into oblivion, that's a bit sad as someone who likes the concept, but it's not cause for :tinfoil:-ery.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 07, 2010, 01:43:27 PM
There really aren't alternatives out there, especially in the MMO scene. Unless you like broken shit or spreadsheets, its WoW or bust.
Try EQ2 or LOTRO.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DLRiley on July 07, 2010, 01:46:33 PM
Has facebook and myspace made us dumber? Honestly 10 years ago when the interwebs was a scary place we would have massed boycotted EQ and UO for doing this shit. Now its "well the blizzard forums will get less trolly"  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: AutomaticZen on July 07, 2010, 01:51:13 PM
This shit is only "optional" now because they are testing it in the WoW community before they release the other games. What they want to do is force to sign up for a Battlenet account and access the game with a persistent internet connection that displays your real name when you're logged in, so they can tell who is trying to pirate their precious game, and get paid by their facebook partners. That's not optional. That's where this is heading.

 :tinfoil:

And when we hit that slippery slope, I'll be right behind you.  But we're not there yet.

I don't post on the forums and I have yet to add anyone as a RealID friend because frankly, they can just IM me if they're a real friend.  With my guild I prefer being able to dip to an alt and have a relaxing night not tanking.

Currently, the entire feature remains optional for playing the game, which is personally what matters to me.

Hell, half of us probably use the same damn pseudonym across everything.  You could google a number of the names here and probably get a hit.  

Quote
Has facebook and myspace made us dumber? Honestly 10 years ago when the interwebs was a scary place we would have massed boycotted EQ and UO for doing this shit. Now its "well the blizzard forums will get less trolly"

No, it's just "hey, you've already put all that information out there yourself using Facebook, Myspace, Steam, and what the fuck ever" 

As I said, as long as I can opt out by simply not posting on the forums, I'm fine.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rasix on July 07, 2010, 01:51:34 PM
There really aren't alternatives out there, especially in the MMO scene. Unless you like broken shit or spreadsheets, its WoW or bust.
Try EQ2 or LOTRO.

Both games make me want to play WoW when I play them.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 07, 2010, 01:52:46 PM
Has facebook and myspace made us dumber? Honestly 10 years ago when the interwebs was a scary place we would have massed boycotted EQ and UO for doing this shit. Now its "well the blizzard forums will get less trolly"  :uhrr:
Seriously, Smedley has to be sitting out there right now and thinking "Well, no matter how bad we were back then, at least we never tried to pull shit like this"


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rendakor on July 07, 2010, 01:54:34 PM
There really aren't alternatives out there, especially in the MMO scene. Unless you like broken shit or spreadsheets, its WoW or bust.
Try EQ2 or LOTRO.
I've played EQ2 off and on since launch; I don't like MTX + Sub fee though so I don't plan to go back soon. Plus they've been aping WoW pretty seriously since launch, so if this catches on it wouldn't surprise me if SOE adopted it.

And I'm not into LOTR in general.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 07, 2010, 01:56:26 PM
And who the hell is forcing anyone to play that?

That's really what I don't get about the slippery slope-type arguments.  It's not like there aren't alternatives out there if Blizzard goes completely off the reservation.

Since when does the fact that there alternatives out there excuse shitty behavior?  Its like saying "I don't get why people are pissed at BP, they can buy gas from another company" :awesome_for_real:

Because the existence of alternatives allows people to vote with their wallets.

Yeah, voting with your wallet is nice, but again, thats a practical solution to a single problem, its not a principled argument against that kind of thing *in general.*   Why do people argue over politics instead of shutting up and going to the polling station when its time? Because its about principle, not just about practice.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 07, 2010, 02:00:51 PM
As I said, as long as I can opt out by simply not posting on the forums, I'm fine.

That's true, and it may never come to be what I fear, but I don't like the developer with the largest mass market appeal in gaming getting into bed with the largest social networking site in the United States. What Blizzard does well tends to become the norm for other studios who want to cash in on the $$$.

I don't want to have to log into Facebook to play a decent title.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 07, 2010, 02:04:29 PM
If you think that other companies who never would've dreamed of pulling something similar a year ago aren't waiting to jump on this if sub levels stay the same you're smoking crack. It's a hop skin and a jump for EA to implement it in the Battlefield series or Valve to implement it with Steam. And maybe they won't but the argument "it doesn't affect ME!" is just going to leave you open to ridicule when they tie it to the Armory and you mysteriously don't get that job because the 58 year old Luddite found out you play WoW.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: AutomaticZen on July 07, 2010, 02:06:03 PM
That's true, and it may never come to be what I fear, but I don't like the developer with the largest mass market appeal in gaming getting into bed with the largest social networking site in the United States. What Blizzard does well tends to become the norm for other studios who want to cash in on the $$$.

I don't want to have to log into Facebook to play a decent title.
Damn straight.  And it will be a sad day indeed.

And if Blizzard goes that way, I can merely hope that EA does not follow them with SWTOR.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DLRiley on July 07, 2010, 02:09:51 PM
As I said, as long as I can opt out by simply not posting on the forums, I'm fine.

That's true, and it may never come to be what I fear, but I don't like the developer with the largest mass market appeal in gaming getting into bed with the largest social networking site in the United States. What Blizzard does well tends to become the norm for other studios who want to cash in on the $$$.

I don't want to have to log into Facebook to play a decent title.

I don't want to have my real name broadcasted in order for me to play a video game.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Goreschach on July 07, 2010, 02:12:16 PM
At least now we're getting past all the false indignation about this. Complaining about 'WoW's forum's threads started by admins' linking your name to your level 70 elven warg buggerer is simply dumb when compared to the kind of stuff most people here already have on facebook. Facebook already has, what, your name/image/general location/age/friends/likes/dislikes/activities/etc. Adding a list of your phat lewts to that will hardly kill you.

Really, this argument is no different than the shit that comes up every time Blizzard changes anything about WoW. It's all just they changed it and now it sucks (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks). I wouldn't be surprised if this realid shit is eventually a huge success. Why? Because the facebook casual gaming farmbook generation eats that shit up. You're all the old guard, and they outnumber you ten to one. I played WoW back during release. They started changing it, so I left. I hold nothing against Blizzard for moving the game towards a much larger demographic. Nobody is forcing you to do anything, so if you don't like what WoW is doing, just stop playing it. Or keep posting about how filthy casuals stoles our precious.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 07, 2010, 02:15:53 PM
At least now we're getting past all the false indignation about this. Complaining about 'WoW's forum's threads started by admins' linking your name to your level 70 elven warg buggerer is simply dumb when compared to the kind of stuff most people here already have on facebook. Facebook already has, what, your name/image/general location/age/friends/likes/dislikes/activities/etc. Adding a list of your phat lewts to that will hardly kill you.

Really, this argument is no different than the shit that comes up every time Blizzard changes anything about WoW. It's all just they changed it and now it sucks (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks). I wouldn't be surprised if this realid shit is eventually a huge success. Why? Because the facebook casual gaming farmbook generation eats that shit up. You're all the old guard, and they outnumber you ten to one. I played WoW back during release. They started changing it, so I left. I hold nothing against Blizzard for moving the game towards a much larger demographic. Nobody is forcing you to do anything, so if you don't like what WoW is doing, just stop playing it. Or keep posting about how filthy casuals stoles our precious.

The only thing I agree with is unsub or stfu. The rest of it, especially comparing real privacy concerns to some retarded casual vs hardcore argument, just means that you view real life issues solely through the lens of video games. That makes you a horrible manbaby.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 07, 2010, 02:16:35 PM
At least now we're getting past all the false indignation about this. Complaining about 'WoW's forum's threads started by admins' linking your name to your level 70 elven warg buggerer is simply dumb when compared to the kind of stuff most people here already have on facebook. Facebook already has, what, your name/image/general location/age/friends/likes/dislikes/activities/etc. Adding a list of your phat lewts to that will hardly kill you.

Really, this argument is no different than the shit that comes up every time Blizzard changes anything about WoW. It's all just they changed it and now it sucks (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks). I wouldn't be surprised if this realid shit is eventually a huge success. Why? Because the facebook casual gaming farmbook generation eats that shit up. You're all the old guard, and they outnumber you ten to one. I played WoW back during release. They started changing it, so I left. I hold nothing against Blizzard for moving the game towards a much larger demographic. Nobody is forcing you to do anything, so if you don't like what WoW is doing, just stop playing it. Or keep posting about how filthy casuals stoles our precious.

Oh hey look, another "it doesn't affect me so I don't care" post.  Guess what, it doesn't affect me either, but it still matters.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 07, 2010, 02:17:53 PM
Quote
Has facebook and myspace made us dumber? Honestly 10 years ago when the interwebs was a scary place we would have massed boycotted EQ and UO for doing this shit. Now its "well the blizzard forums will get less trolly"

No, it's just "hey, you've already put all that information out there yourself using Facebook, Myspace, Steam, and what the fuck ever" 

As I said, as long as I can opt out by simply not posting on the forums, I'm fine.

It's not quite that, though, is it.  Yea the info is out there.  But now it's like Blizzard is saying, "Hey you put this info out there already, right?  Mind if I make a billion dollars off it while I sell you my game you pay for monthly?  Oh, and now I'm going to force you to watch these ads on your Facebook, tell all your friends you're a wow nerd, and of course any potential employers will be able to easily find out you played games for 150 hours last week because we spammed your page with the achievement.  What's that?  What do you get out of it?  Oh it's a much improved experience.  I'm sure you'll agree because I say you will."

Seriously, guy.  None of that shit on Facebook is really optional.  It's only pseudo-optional.  You don't have to do it only because they can't legally get away with making you.  But you have to do it to play the games.  It's the viral part of viral marketing.  It's like, a virus.  If you don't help spread the virus, you're not a true believer and so you don't get access to the game options that being a true believer unlocks.

If you don't think it's coming to that, then you're just being overly optimistic.  It's not the 'oh it's optional' part that scares people.  It's the 'this is only the beginning' part.  This is a game.  It doesn't need all this crap to continue being a game.  There's no high minded social agenda here, either.  It's just about the money.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 07, 2010, 02:23:23 PM
There's no high minded social agenda here, either.  It's just about the money.

If they REALLY cared about cleaning up their forums they'd fucking ban people for about five million less than it cost to develop this game. I can clean up their forums right now for 30k a year or whatever pittance they're paying those poor schlubs.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Nevermore on July 07, 2010, 02:25:48 PM
Nah, I'm sure there won't be any problems associated with this. (http://i25.tinypic.com/10sdgts.png)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 07, 2010, 02:26:33 PM
There's no high minded social agenda here, either.  It's just about the money.

If they REALLY cared about cleaning up their forums they'd fucking ban people for about five million less than it cost to develop this game. I can clean up their forums right now for 30k a year or whatever pittance they're paying those poor schlubs.

Right but you'd cost them more money than that in lost subs because you would ban the shit out of people and then they'd ragequit.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 07, 2010, 02:28:52 PM
No they wouldn't. If you post on a forum at all you're so invested you're not going anywhere.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 07, 2010, 02:30:00 PM
Yeah, so one of the "Real ID & RL names means nothing at all and I bet you can't find me" people seems to have had his eyes opened. (http://seewhatyoudidthere.com/2010/07/07/realid-changes-the-very-real-ease-of-stalking-in-the-internet-age/)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DLRiley on July 07, 2010, 02:31:08 PM
its kinda hard for people to understand this but they are 1 text field away from getting their account hacked. about 1 text field away from getting their credit card info stolen once the blizz account is hacked. and 2 text fields away from hacking your email address.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Typhon on July 07, 2010, 02:32:17 PM
[stuff...]But you have to do it to play the games. [...more stuff]

If I don't have (or don't link) to a facebook account I can't play WoW?  Is this true?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 07, 2010, 02:34:21 PM
Not at the moment.  But that's the road we're on.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Nevermore on July 07, 2010, 02:35:56 PM
Indeed.  How long do you think it will be until your Armory profile is linked to your facebook page?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 07, 2010, 02:38:40 PM
Minus five months. (http://www.wow.com/2010/02/01/blizzard-launches-facebook-armory-app/)
Sure, it's optional now....


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: LK on July 07, 2010, 02:43:24 PM
E: Muad'dib, we have mediasign - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10543100.stm

Maybe I missed when this internet slang became common knowledge, but what is E: ? Example?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 07, 2010, 02:45:34 PM
Edit. :)

And there's a few more articles out there now.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 07, 2010, 02:45:44 PM
Yeah, voting with your wallet is nice, but again, thats a practical solution to a single problem, its not a principled argument against that kind of thing *in general.*   Why do people argue over politics instead of shutting up and going to the polling station when its time? Because its about principle, not just about practice.

Because :tinfoil: isn't about making a principled argument.  It's about "This change portends a future change that will be terrible!"

If they announce said change, then you can be apoplectic about it then.  But being apoplectic about this change now, if you don't use the official forums, is being fucking hyperbolic.

On top of that, to follow your own analogy, most people are right now phonebanking against the person they're voting for.  It's insane.  Blizzard really doesn't care that people are shouting up a storm if it doesn't translate into lost subs, and no one's saying really saying that at this point.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 07, 2010, 02:48:41 PM
E: Muad'dib, we have mediasign - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10543100.stm

Maybe I missed when this internet slang became common knowledge, but what is E: ? Example?

E = Edit.  Muad'dip is a character from Dune.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Numtini on July 07, 2010, 02:49:01 PM
Nah, I'm sure there won't be any problems associated with this. (http://i25.tinypic.com/10sdgts.png)

And the devs will stand next to their boothbabes and intone that they don't understand why women don't game.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 07, 2010, 02:51:14 PM
 Blizzard really doesn't care that people are shouting up a storm if it doesn't translate into lost subs, and no one's saying really saying that at this point.

This guy isn't subbed. Any temptation TO resub with Cataclysm is pretty much gone now.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 07, 2010, 02:53:57 PM
 Blizzard really doesn't care that people are shouting up a storm if it doesn't translate into lost subs, and no one's saying really saying that at this point.

This guy isn't subbed. Any temptation TO resub with Cataclysm is pretty much gone now.

Same, and as of right now SC2 and D3 are out as well.   I kind of assumed people who are upset about this will cancel.  But I wouldn't say just shut and up not buy it, I'd say, cancel, don't buy the new games AND make a stink about it.  Then, if they go back and make favorable changes, reconsider.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 07, 2010, 02:54:18 PM
Yeah, voting with your wallet is nice, but again, thats a practical solution to a single problem, its not a principled argument against that kind of thing *in general.*   Why do people argue over politics instead of shutting up and going to the polling station when its time? Because its about principle, not just about practice.

Because :tinfoil: isn't about making a principled argument.  It's about "This change portends a future change that will be terrible!"

If they announce said change, then you can be apoplectic about it then.  But being apoplectic about this change now, if you don't use the official forums, is being fucking hyperbolic.

On top of that, to follow your own analogy, most people are right now phonebanking against the person they're voting for.  It's insane.  Blizzard really doesn't care that people are shouting up a storm if it doesn't translate into lost subs, and no one's saying really saying that at this point.

Do you really think that we're that far out, man?  They basically said it when they said, 'This is only the beginning of our integration with Facebook.'  Do you really have any doubt about what that means?  It means they're going to make a lot of money selling advertising on their Facebook app(s), and they're using your personal information to do it.  If you're cool with that, hey, it doesn't bother me at all that you are.  But I'm the kind of guy who values privacy.  Call me old fashioned.  But I just don't want my Facebook in my WoW.

And quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me that given these changes Starcraft 2 doesn't sell as many copies as they think it will.  Can we talk then?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 07, 2010, 02:55:01 PM
I didn't even have myself credited for that Nythrax book under my real name, I'm sure as hell not smearing it all over the fucking Warcraft forums. When I search for my real name on Google, I find six or seven other people with the exact same name shitting up the internet, none of whom are me, and I like it that way.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: LK on July 07, 2010, 02:55:22 PM
Do you think if people's actions got associated with their names, they'd stop being asshats, and those that don't care will be properly shamed and admonished for being asshats, suffering the indignities and societal pressure from going against the grain?

One of the major motivators when someone decides to behave badly is being free of consequences. Not being associated with your actions is a major boon to avoid consequences for them.

Or is because only Blizzard is doing it, and the rest of the internet is still an anonymous no man's land, that it becomes a liability instead of an attempt to rein in immature behavior? I know this is a bad thing, but I kinda want to see it happen just to see what happens and see what can be learned from it. All this doomcasting... which one's going to be the winner?

Shit, this is actually right in line with Blizzard. This is epic. Whatever happens here could influence internet practices for decades.  Seems like a giant "Fuck You!" to those that support Anonymity and other internet concepts. People will get hurt. But it's change, and change I want to see just for the possibility of a better tomorrow. :popcorn:

E: You know, I keep shifting sides on this debate. It is disorienting.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 07, 2010, 02:59:23 PM
Dude.  I like that people are asshats on the internet.  I think it's hilarious.  The hilarity is compounded ten fold when people can't handle asshats.  Furthermore, I think that a lot more people are the same as me than are willing to admit in public.  Which ironically leads us to the debate on the value of anonymity.  I'll just say I think it's really valuable and leave it there.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DLRiley on July 07, 2010, 03:00:11 PM
wow self implodes a happy change indeed.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 07, 2010, 03:00:28 PM
There's no doomcasting. Nobody's really going to give a shit. Christ, people just let their facebooks hang out for everyone to see. Fuck it. The privacy boat sailed years ago. I don't even give a shit about RealID except for it being a marker of a larger move away from privacy rights.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 07, 2010, 03:05:20 PM
I have a Facebook, it technically belongs to Mr. Herfderf Fakename or something like that and I use it to talk to like two people. Since Blizzard is ripping real names directly from their billing info, I don't have that luxury here. If I had know this shit was coming years ago, I'd have signed up for the WoW accout as Effyu Notmyname or something and paid with time cards.

Shit, their forums are going to be primarily 15 year olds posting under their parents names because they let Junior charge his account for World of Whatsit and they don't have a fucking clue that any of this is even going on.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 07, 2010, 03:07:11 PM
Do you really think that we're that far out, man?  They basically said it when they said, 'This is only the beginning of our integration with Facebook.'  Do you really have any doubt about what that means?  It means they're going to make a lot of money selling advertising on their Facebook app(s), and they're using your personal information to do it.  If you're cool with that, hey, it doesn't bother me at all that you are.  But I'm the kind of guy who values privacy.  Call me old fashioned.  But I just don't want my Facebook in my WoW.

And quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me that given these changes Starcraft 2 doesn't sell as many copies as they think it will.  Can we talk then?

The "beginning" of their integration with Facebook was ages ago.  Not just the Armory app, but the Armory itself has loads of APIs that didn't result in any shitstorm.

That's what I don't get.  I don't get why this specific change to the official forums magically makes everything different.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 07, 2010, 03:08:34 PM
Because, idiot, I did not have to install the facebook app on my facebook.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 07, 2010, 03:09:38 PM
Do you really think that we're that far out, man?  They basically said it when they said, 'This is only the beginning of our integration with Facebook.'  Do you really have any doubt about what that means?  It means they're going to make a lot of money selling advertising on their Facebook app(s), and they're using your personal information to do it.  If you're cool with that, hey, it doesn't bother me at all that you are.  But I'm the kind of guy who values privacy.  Call me old fashioned.  But I just don't want my Facebook in my WoW.

And quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me that given these changes Starcraft 2 doesn't sell as many copies as they think it will.  Can we talk then?

The "beginning" of their integration with Facebook was ages ago.  Not just the Armory app, but the Armory itself has loads of APIs that didn't result in any shitstorm.

That's what I don't get.  I don't get why this specific change to the official forums magically makes everything different.

Come on man.  You get it.  Be real.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 07, 2010, 03:14:11 PM
Because, idiot, I did not have to install the facebook app on my facebook.

So they're going for force me to have a Facebook account, link it up to my Battle.net account, and bar me from using either site's Parental or Application settings, or I can't play World of Warcraft.  Right.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: koro on July 07, 2010, 03:15:44 PM
http://seewhatyoudidthere.com/2010/07/07/realid-changes-the-very-real-ease-of-stalking-in-the-internet-age/

Quote
::(Male Voice)::
MV: Hello?
Me: Hello, is this So-And-So?
MV: Yes.
Me: First and foremost, I want to apologize for calling you at work, and I also apologize if this doesn’t make sense, but are you Sikketh, from Thunderlord?
MV: ::pause:: Yes.
Me: So yeah, that took me about 20 minutes and it was pretty easy.
MV: Wow. Ok.
Me: Also, just for shits and giggles, is your address ?
MV: yep.
Me: Phone number 555-555-5555?
MV: yep.
Me: I know your parents’ names are Name1 and Name2, I know your room is painted blue and I know you have a cute dog. I know where you were on the 4th of July and I know when you got back. Don’t worry, I’m not a crazy, I’m not going to do anything with it, and I’m not going to post your address or anything anywhere. I just wanted you to know that what I did was very easy and very free, from just your name and toon’s name. You have a good day, and thanks for being a good sport about it.
MV: Hey, I did basically ask for it – thank you. I was wrong about RealID.

 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Trouble on July 07, 2010, 03:16:15 PM
Do you really think that we're that far out, man?  They basically said it when they said, 'This is only the beginning of our integration with Facebook.'  Do you really have any doubt about what that means?  It means they're going to make a lot of money selling advertising on their Facebook app(s), and they're using your personal information to do it.  If you're cool with that, hey, it doesn't bother me at all that you are.  But I'm the kind of guy who values privacy.  Call me old fashioned.  But I just don't want my Facebook in my WoW.

And quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me that given these changes Starcraft 2 doesn't sell as many copies as they think it will.  Can we talk then?

The "beginning" of their integration with Facebook was ages ago.  Not just the Armory app, but the Armory itself has loads of APIs that didn't result in any shitstorm.

That's what I don't get.  I don't get why this specific change to the official forums magically makes everything different.

Have you not read the stories about people being made examples of because they were like "herp derp he's my real name and I don't give a shit" only to have their life ripped apart by someone trying to make a point? I've seen like half a dozen examples in the last 24 hours. On Facebook I can HIDE MY SHIT AWAY so you can't fucking see it. You can find my name, my picture, and a small amount of info I've voluntarily shared. I do not want people to know shit about my gaming habits if they know my real name. I don't want people to know shit about my real life info if they know my handle in a game (or game forum). There is a line I do not want crossed and that is the point.

Here's the one I liked the most: http://seewhatyoudidthere.com/2010/07/07/realid-changes-the-very-real-ease-of-stalking-in-the-internet-age/

Quote
I may be a decent human being, but it’s nigh-impossible for me to resist a dare like that. I set to work.

With just his first and last name and his wow toon’s name, I was able to find his twitter, facebook, home address, home phone number, work address, work phone number and parent’s names. The whole process took about 20 minutes. I immediately called the house, but no one was home. I sat on the idea of calling his work for a bit, and eventually decided to do so (he did ask for it).


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 07, 2010, 03:19:06 PM
Do you think if people's actions got associated with their names, they'd stop being asshats, and those that don't care will be properly shamed and admonished for being asshats, suffering the indignities and societal pressure from going against the grain?

One of the major motivators when someone decides to behave badly is being free of consequences. Not being associated with your actions is a major boon to avoid consequences for them.

Or is because only Blizzard is doing it, and the rest of the internet is still an anonymous no man's land, that it becomes a liability instead of an attempt to rein in immature behavior? I know this is a bad thing, but I kinda want to see it happen just to see what happens and see what can be learned from it. All this doomcasting... which one's going to be the winner?

Shit, this is actually right in line with Blizzard. This is epic. Whatever happens here could influence internet practices for decades.  Seems like a giant "Fuck You!" to those that support Anonymity and other internet concepts. People will get hurt. But it's change, and change I want to see just for the possibility of a better tomorrow. :popcorn:

E: You know, I keep shifting sides on this debate. It is disorienting.

The lack of anonymity will keep some of the cowards from being dicks. The people who are actually right up there in creepy or proud to be a douchebag territory? Not a chance. I give to you Facebook, which lacks any form of anonymity, and has promptly shown us all exactly how fucking stupid/ignorant/racist our friends and friends of friends really are.

But the real issue with this is less "future employer googles you, hates WOW players", it's mostly that /v/ link. There are a lot of creepy people out there, and this is basically shoving women into a smaller acceptable area of gaming (just play, NO POSTING, no accepting all those realid friend requests! And they were already in the No Using Voice In Public Groups camp) due to creepy motherfuckers who aren't even putting their information out there: they're just trolling what is available and running with it.

See, I'm all for ending a lot of the anonymous bullshit and bringing down consequences for being a douchebag in gaming. But that's just it: in gaming. You want to link all my characters to my WoW profile on the forums and in game with links to their armory for laughs? GO NUTS. It'll cut down on the level 1 trolls and idiocy done on alts that will never be traced back to your respected main. Yay! But I don't need to know your home address, phone number, employer, and relationship status to shun your alts in game. I only need to know that if I want to take my issues with you outside the game. And that's not cool.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 07, 2010, 03:20:46 PM
It should be pointed out that while you *can* hide your shit away on Facebook, it sounds like this particular guy *didn't* and that is where a lot of that information came from.

EDIT: I should stress that I would prefer kildorn's "just force-show all your alts when you post as anyone" solution to my issues around anonymity on forums, I don't think the real names really adds anything helpful to the process, since I guess people have decided I love RealID unconditionally, which I really don't.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fordel on July 07, 2010, 03:21:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiauaGbxipA  :grin:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 07, 2010, 03:22:00 PM
Because, idiot, I did not have to install the facebook app on my facebook.

So they're going for force me to have a Facebook account, link it up to my Battle.net account, and bar me from using either site's Parental or Application settings, or I can't play World of Warcraft.  Right.

Look.  They can't force you to go to Facebook and make a profile.  We agree.  But they can make it advantageous for you to do so.  And they can take away an advantage that you have right now if they need it for their dubious ends.  That doesn't concern you?  Oh.  You don't have enough Blizzard Coins to view the Armory, purchase more?  This is BS, man.  There's no two ways to look at it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: LK on July 07, 2010, 03:24:13 PM
Suddenly everyone is very ashamed of their World of Warcraft habit and what they've done under the shield of anonymity. They think about what they've done, the people they've pissed off and acted immature against, and how far some people are willing to go to prove a point or get revenge.

All before any of that is possible right now.

There's just too many individual situations and variations on the bad to encompass in one thought. This is a massive... this is something I expect the psychology majors to jump all over and explain to me in scientific terms. Every point I could make has a strong counterpoint. This is a major wake-up call for most people, and they'd hate to lose something they've really enjoyed (which came with it a stiff negative they could ignore but Blizzard can't).


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 07, 2010, 03:25:40 PM
It should be pointed out that while you *can* hide your shit away on Facebook, it sounds like this particular guy *didn't* and that is where a lot of that information came from.
Mind you, it seems that Caladein seems to give no fucks as to giving away his personal details online anyway judging by his profile here alone (RL name as unhidden contact email? Really?) so it's not really surprising he just doesn't get it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 07, 2010, 03:28:21 PM
Suddenly everyone is very ashamed of their World of Warcraft habit and what they've done under the shield of anonymity. They think about what they've done, the people they've pissed off and acted immature against, and how far some people are willing to go to prove a point or get revenge.

All before any of that is possible right now.

There's just too many individual situations and variations on the bad to encompass in one thought. This is a massive... this is something I expect the psychology majors to jump all over and explain to me in scientific terms. Every point I could make has a strong counterpoint. This is a major wake-up call for most people, and they'd hate to lose something they've really enjoyed (which came with it a stiff negative they could ignore but Blizzard can't).

No. That's not what this is about. My friends know I play. My boss knows I play. Half my office plays. I work in fucking IT, it's commonplace. Hell, I'm going to the dorkconvention again.

My issue is that you're basically making the mistake any full pvp game makes: assuming nobody is going to grief the ever loving FUCK out of a system, and building it to be slightly resistant to that. There is a huge difference from someone who disagrees with me on the healing efficiency of GHeal versus Flash Heal sending me a tell or email in game, versus getting a package in the mail from them, or being stopped in a nightclub by some dude I don't know who has an online beef with me.

I'm about as far from aggressive troll as you can get on the internet, and I really really really think this is a bad idea that has not been thought through to it's logical conclusion. I happily share my personal information with online people who I WANT to contact me personally. For everything else? The game has communication systems, use them.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: LK on July 07, 2010, 03:30:30 PM
But the real issue with this is less "future employer googles you, hates WOW players", it's mostly that /v/ link. There are a lot of creepy people out there, and this is basically shoving women into a smaller acceptable area of gaming (just play, NO POSTING, no accepting all those realid friend requests! And they were already in the No Using Voice In Public Groups camp) due to creepy motherfuckers who aren't even putting their information out there: they're just trolling what is available and running with it.

Identity... god.

It's because it's just so god damn easy to track someone down over the internet if you get a sliver of personal information on them. At the same time, in real life, if you're walking around or talking with someone at the coffee shop, you're not doing anything that would warrant that kind of attention. Apparently being in the same guild, posting an opinion online, or any number of actions *in a game* is enough motivation for some sad fuck to start e-stalking.

This whole thing is incredibly difficult to wrap my head around because of the kind of power that is available to an average internet user's fingertips.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 07, 2010, 03:32:43 PM
Look.  They can't force you to go to Facebook and make a profile.  We agree.  But they can make it advantageous for you to do so.  And they can take away an advantage that you have right now if they need it for their dubious ends.  That doesn't concern you?  Oh.  You don't have enough Blizzard Coins to view the Armory, purchase more?  This is BS, man.  There's no two ways to look at it.

First, how are their ends dubious?  They're a company that's trying to make money and isn't breaking any laws in doing so, that's morally neutral at least.

To your point though, I've already dealt with that concern before.  FrontierVille is way too spammy when played "optimally" (even with custom Lists), that's how it's designed, and I didn't want any part of that, so I stopped playing it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 07, 2010, 03:34:01 PM
They're a company that's trying to make money and isn't breaking any laws in doing so, that's morally neutral at least.

:oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 07, 2010, 03:35:38 PM
Look.  They can't force you to go to Facebook and make a profile.  We agree.  But they can make it advantageous for you to do so.  And they can take away an advantage that you have right now if they need it for their dubious ends.  That doesn't concern you?  Oh.  You don't have enough Blizzard Coins to view the Armory, purchase more?  This is BS, man.  There's no two ways to look at it.

First, how are their ends dubious?  They're a company that's trying to make money and isn't breaking any laws in doing so, that's morally neutral at least.
Wrong.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: LK on July 07, 2010, 03:35:58 PM
No. That's not what this is about. My friends know I play. My boss knows I play. Half my office plays. I work in fucking IT, it's commonplace. Hell, I'm going to the dorkconvention again.

WoW encompasses more than gaming nerds and your situation is different from others. It's why I should avoid blanket statements... I really fucking should.

It's the internet. It's making you act differently than you normally would. You're showing the real you in most cases, and people don't want other people to see that and associate with them. Private vs. Public Self. Only, this will make the Private Self more associated with the Public Self. I can see how that would be embarassing / something most people wouldn't want.

The stalkers... why is it that I'm having a difficult time making that distinction between WoW and *any other activity*? Stupid people that will do stupid things offline doesn't seem to be unique to the internet. Is it because the internet makes it easier to track someone down? That our world is so much smaller and pissing someone off that is thousands of miles away won't matter when they can hop a plane and beat you up? Or sniff your underwear, for the ladies?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 07, 2010, 03:38:04 PM
But the real issue with this is less "future employer googles you, hates WOW players", it's mostly that /v/ link. There are a lot of creepy people out there, and this is basically shoving women into a smaller acceptable area of gaming (just play, NO POSTING, no accepting all those realid friend requests! And they were already in the No Using Voice In Public Groups camp) due to creepy motherfuckers who aren't even putting their information out there: they're just trolling what is available and running with it.

Identity... god.

It's because it's just so god damn easy to track someone down over the internet if you get a sliver of personal information on them. At the same time, in real life, if you're walking around or talking with someone at the coffee shop, you're not doing anything that would warrant that kind of attention. Apparently being in the same guild, posting an opinion online, or any number of actions *in a game* is enough motivation for some sad fuck to start e-stalking.

This whole thing is incredibly difficult to wrap my head around because of the kind of power that is available to an average internet user's fingertips.

But you see, I can have a conversation in a coffee shop with someone without divulging that much personal information. If asked my name, it's just Chris. Done deal, good luck finding someone in Boston like that if it turns out I don't really like you. RealID is basically making a casual conversation require authentication to third party observers, to the point where any idiot can track you down later and be a creepy fuck about it.

There are creepy fucks in real life. It's just that you don't casually give them all your contact information just by having a conversation elsewhere in the bar. I mean, unless you're drunk as shit and yelling your digits to someone standing next to you.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Trouble on July 07, 2010, 03:41:59 PM
It's the internet. It's making you act differently than you normally would. You're showing the real you in most cases, and people don't want other people to see that and associate with them. Private vs. Public Self. Only, this will make the Private Self more associated with the Public Self. I can see how that would be embarassing / something most people wouldn't want.

It's not making me different. I don't want people to be able to build a rock solid profile of me and everything I do in my life online or offline. I like to break it down and keep parts separate. Most people want this kind of privacy. Separation of personal and professional life. Separation of hobbies from those two. It doesn't matter if I'm not doing anything I'm ashamed of but I still want that separation and I think most people do. Being able to grant specific access in Facebook is how to separate shit out and is why there's been fucking riots over the past few months about the inability to do so. Being able to not link my game personality with my real name is another method of doing so.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 07, 2010, 03:42:33 PM
Look.  They can't force you to go to Facebook and make a profile.  We agree.  But they can make it advantageous for you to do so.  And they can take away an advantage that you have right now if they need it for their dubious ends.  That doesn't concern you?  Oh.  You don't have enough Blizzard Coins to view the Armory, purchase more?  This is BS, man.  There's no two ways to look at it.

First, how are their ends dubious?  They're a company that's trying to make money and isn't breaking any laws in doing so, that's morally neutral at least.

To your point though, I've already dealt with that concern before.  FrontierVille is way too spammy when played "optimally" (even with custom Lists), that's how it's designed, and I didn't want any part of that, so I stopped playing it.

Okay, we're cool.  Just one more thing.  If you want to play an MMO with other people on the internet, is there any other relatively good option other than WoW?  Not really.  So it's not like you can just play a different game because they all monumentally blow, right?

They have us by the balls and they know it.  They've known it for some time, but up until now they've been a force of good in the universe.  I had to suck it up and admit I was wrong in the SC2 thread when I was white knighting for them for just that reason.  But they're not the same anymore.  They've turned to the dark side.  Their ends are dubious because they're ignoring a legitimate privacy concern to advance a very dubious ethic that's being espoused by that Facebook dick.  He thinks being anonymous on the internet isn't productive and that the world would be a better place if we all called each other by our first names.  He's wrong.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 07, 2010, 03:44:00 PM
No. That's not what this is about. My friends know I play. My boss knows I play. Half my office plays. I work in fucking IT, it's commonplace. Hell, I'm going to the dorkconvention again.

WoW encompasses more than gaming nerds and your situation is different from others. It's why I should avoid blanket statements... I really fucking should.

It's the internet. It's making you act differently than you normally would. You're showing the real you in most cases, and people don't want other people to see that and associate with them. Private vs. Public Self. Only, this will make the Private Self more associated with the Public Self. I can see how that would be embarassing / something most people wouldn't want.

The stalkers... why is it that I'm having a difficult time making that distinction between WoW and *any other activity*? Stupid people that will do stupid things offline doesn't seem to be unique to the internet. Is it because the internet makes it easier to track someone down? That our world is so much smaller and pissing someone off that is thousands of miles away won't matter when they can hop a plane and beat you up? Or sniff your underwear, for the ladies?

I used to agree that being anonymous meant people showed their true selves and acted the ass. But people do that anyways on Facebook, and plenty of people will act perfectly nice in an anonymous setting to try and get something else out of it while actually being total pricks. Making sure someone's actions within the game follow them? I'm cool with that. I just don't feel we need to break the fourth wall as it were to do so. I've never felt the need to demand personal information from the women I play games with, because well, it's not needed to play a relaxing game. It's an escape, a past time.

Hell, I don't need to know someone's home address to play a game of pickup basketball down the street with them. It's an escape, a past time. (shut UP peanut gallery who has met me..)

So why are we suddenly deciding that we all need to know everything about each other to escape into a game together?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 07, 2010, 03:49:53 PM
Look.  They can't force you to go to Facebook and make a profile.  We agree.  But they can make it advantageous for you to do so.  And they can take away an advantage that you have right now if they need it for their dubious ends.  That doesn't concern you?  Oh.  You don't have enough Blizzard Coins to view the Armory, purchase more?  This is BS, man.  There's no two ways to look at it.

First, how are their ends dubious?  They're a company that's trying to make money and isn't breaking any laws in doing so, that's morally neutral at least.

To your point though, I've already dealt with that concern before.  FrontierVille is way too spammy when played "optimally" (even with custom Lists), that's how it's designed, and I didn't want any part of that, so I stopped playing it.

Okay, we're cool.  Just one more thing.  If you want to play an MMO with other people on the internet, is there any other relatively good option other than WoW?  Not really.  So it's not like you can just play a different game because they all monumentally blow, right?

They have us by the balls and they know it.  They've known it for some time, but up until now they've been a force of good in the universe.  I had to suck it up and admit I was wrong in the SC2 thread when I was white knighting for them for just that reason.  But they're not the same anymore.  They've turned to the dark side.  Their ends are dubious because they're ignoring a legitimate privacy concern to advance a very dubious ethic that's being espoused by that Facebook dick.  He thinks being anonymous on the internet isn't productive and that the world would be a better place if we all called each other by our first names.  He's wrong.

I could go to LotRO tomorrow and be content if WoW did something that really drove me over the edge /shrug. I'm sure there are other people who could do the same with Eve, or whatever else.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 07, 2010, 03:52:39 PM
Okay, we're cool.  Just one more thing.  If you want to play an MMO with other people on the internet, is there any other relatively good option other than WoW?  Not really.  So it's not like you can just play a different game because they all monumentally blow, right?

They have us by the balls and they know it.  They've known it for some time, but up until now they've been a force of good in the universe.  I had to suck it up and admit I was wrong in the SC2 thread when I was white knighting for them for just that reason.  But they're not the same anymore.  They've turned to the dark side.  Their ends are dubious because they're ignoring a legitimate privacy concern to advance a very dubious ethic that's being espoused by that Facebook dick.  He thinks being anonymous on the internet isn't productive and that the world would be a better place if we all called each other by our first names.  He's wrong.

They're not just competing with MMOs though, they're competing with every other leisure activity on the planet.  If all MMOs go to some objectionable place, there are still other things to do!

As for the white knighting, Simond brought up a good example: I really am on the odd side of this.  I actually do agree with Zuckerberg on this sort of thing (even though I think his company's implementation is bonkers) and it took Lum linking an (http://brokentoys.org/2010/07/06/realid-for-your-fakeorc/) NPR piece (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127374523) for me to see it articulated.

I honestly don't get how Internet Dragons is different from everything else one does and that if I put up something that says "This is who I am." and intentionally hide something, I'm lying to you before we've even met.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: El Gallo on July 07, 2010, 03:53:44 PM
They're a company that's trying to make money and isn't breaking any laws in doing so, that's morally neutral at least.

Best post in the history of the Internet that did not begin with "I have dropped my glass of water..."

It was better than Cats.  Voted 5, would read again and again.  


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Nevermore on July 07, 2010, 03:53:57 PM
It should be pointed out that while you *can* hide your shit away on Facebook, it sounds like this particular guy *didn't* and that is where a lot of that information came from.
Mind you, it seems that Caladein seems to give no fucks as to giving away his personal details online anyway judging by his profile here alone (RL name as unhidden contact email? Really?) so it's not really surprising he just doesn't get it.

He has his cell phone number listed on his blog page.  Give him a call.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fabricated on July 07, 2010, 03:55:53 PM
Hey girls, if you didn't want to be stalked you shouldn't have posted all sexy in the technical support forum like that


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 07, 2010, 03:56:15 PM
They're a company that's trying to make money and isn't breaking any laws in doing so, that's morally neutral at least.

Best post in the history of the Internet that did not begin with "I have dropped my glass of water..."

It was better than Cats.  Voted 5, would read again and again.  

Yeah, that's poorly phrased (and I mixed up dubious with malicious in my head).  That said, I don't think it's suspicious that a company wants to make the 40% of its revenue stream (or whatever it was) bigger.  That's sort of going with the whole "making money" thing.

As for the number, it's a Google Voice one so I'll probably ignore the call and just read the (hilarious) transcript later.

E: Double posts are fun!


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 07, 2010, 04:02:15 PM
E: Bah, double post.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Nevermore on July 07, 2010, 04:05:01 PM
The stalkers... why is it that I'm having a difficult time making that distinction between WoW and *any other activity*? Stupid people that will do stupid things offline doesn't seem to be unique to the internet. Is it because the internet makes it easier to track someone down? That our world is so much smaller and pissing someone off that is thousands of miles away won't matter when they can hop a plane and beat you up? Or sniff your underwear, for the ladies?

There are relatively few activities you do day to day that offer up both the motive and opportunity to be subjected to a stalking situation.  The competitiveness in WoW is one motive.  In a community as large as WoW's, there will also be a small but noteworthy subset that thinks like that /v/ proto-stalker, which is another motive.  Blizzard is now providing them with ample opportunity. 

Yeah, that dude at the bank might know your full name and address but it's highly unlikely he has any motive for doing anything with it.  But with WoW you're in a pool with millions of other people, some of whom might have a motive for using information like that.  I'd rather they not have that information, thanks.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sjofn on July 07, 2010, 04:05:28 PM
The stalkers... why is it that I'm having a difficult time making that distinction between WoW and *any other activity*? Stupid people that will do stupid things offline doesn't seem to be unique to the internet. Is it because the internet makes it easier to track someone down? That our world is so much smaller and pissing someone off that is thousands of miles away won't matter when they can hop a plane and beat you up? Or sniff your underwear, for the ladies?

Well, there's the fact that if I post on their boards, I have passively revealed my name to anyone who reads them. Any other activity, I have to actually TELL people my last name. And yes, part of it is that the internet makes it easier to track people down. If someone hears me say my last name, they have to remember it while they dash to the nearest computer to google it, AND hope they guessed right how to spell it. If it's emblazoned on Blizzard's boards, it's just ctrl-c ctrl-v stalker time (I have a Polish last name people misspell constantly, I totally do consider it a form of stalker defense :P).

I do not, by and large, think someone would see my lady name and immediately get with the stalking, but given I have had people get kind of weird on me after knowing me on the internet for a while before (I am probably far too old and cranky to attract any new lovelorn stalkers, although it's possible I would still get some I WILL MAKE THAT BITCH SHUT UP ones), I think it's entirely possible some ladies would sadly find out some of the people in her guild are Total Creeps once they have an easy way to track her down. It doesn't help that stalking is often treated like it's supposed to be a compliment and almost never taken as seriously as it should be before it gets REALLY creepy because c'mon he's just showing how much he cares, you bitch.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 07, 2010, 04:06:08 PM
Yeah, I think Zuckerman is just plain wrong based on what he said in that article.  Let me summarize: People behave differently in different social situations, hanging out with friends, at a family reuinion, at work, playing games on the internet, whatever.  Different social rules apply.  At work, professionally I need to be serious, with my family I can be more relaxed but generally a little more reserved, and with my friends I can say whatever the hell I want.  The problem is that when your with friends social situation collide with your professional social situation, you get behavior that seems inappropriate because its been brought into a foreign situation.

If you seriously behave the exact same way in every situation, I question your humanity and think that you may in fact be a robot, or an alien, or a robot alien.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 07, 2010, 04:08:47 PM

I honestly don't get how Internet Dragons is different from everything else one does and that if I put up something that says "This is who I am." and intentionally hide something, I'm lying to you before we've even met.

If I put up something that says "this is who I am" and omit unnecessary information, I'm not lying. My resume does not include my failed attempt at a highschool band. I'm not lying about the fact that I am a terrible guitar player, I'm simply not including irrelevant information. My conversations at a party do not include the every detail of my work (hell, probably because I signed something that says I can't tell everyone everything I do. I'm a contractually bound liar!)

If you hide something, you're not necessarily lying. If you hide something relevant to the question at hand, you may be. But my tax forms are sitting behind a password. Does that mean I'm lying to everyone I know about my taxes? No. It means they don't need to know it, so it doesn't come up.

The idea that all information wants to be free is silly. Namely because there is plenty of information that doesn't need to nor want to be free. Your password, for example, is information. And it's relevant to posting on an internet forum. But I don't think anyone is going to imply you're a lying liar who lies if you fail to post your password for all to see. Same with your credit card number, or any other item which may not actually be needed in any particular conversation.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: proudft on July 07, 2010, 04:09:44 PM
How am I supposed to talk to you if I don't know your blood type?   :heartbreak:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 07, 2010, 04:13:08 PM
If you seriously behave the exact same way in every situation, I question your humanity and think that you may in fact be a robot, or an alien, or a robot alien.

At the same time if you behave in such a way when anonymous that wouldn't be acceptable in *any* normal social situations, then I submit to you that you are just an asshole - regardless of any "oh well he's perfectly nice in person" sort of defense. Those are the people that make me hate anonymity on forums, which in the context of MMOs means the ability to hide your posts on a level 1 alt or whatever. I think the real name thing is a weird extra step beyond what is needed to fix that sort of thing, but I don't see any good reason to allow you to hide your list of alts when you step into the forum either. Really the real name thing doesn't really protect against this sort of behavior as well simply because attaching your character names is optional. Now if your list of characters was mandatory and you could attach your RealID optionally instead, then we'd be getting somewhere.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 07, 2010, 04:14:14 PM
If you seriously behave the exact same way in every situation, I question your humanity and think that you may in fact be a robot, or an alien, or a robot alien.

At the same time if you behave in such a way when anonymous that wouldn't be acceptable in *any* normal social situations, then I submit to you that you are just an asshole - regardless of any "oh well he's perfectly nice in person" sort of defense. Those are the people that make me hate anonymity on forums, which in the context of MMOs means the ability to hide your posts on a level 1 alt or whatever. I think the real name thing is a weird extra step beyond what is needed to fix that sort of thing, but I don't see any good reason to allow you to hide your list of alts when you step into the forum either. Really the real name thing doesn't really protect against this sort of behavior as well simply because attaching your character names is optional. Now if your list of characters was mandatory and you could attach your RealID optionally instead, then we'd be getting somewhere.

Is it sad that I immediately had VN flashbacks of very specific people when I read that?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 07, 2010, 04:16:09 PM
If you seriously behave the exact same way in every situation, I question your humanity and think that you may in fact be a robot, or an alien, or a robot alien.

At the same time if you behave in such a way when anonymous that wouldn't be acceptable in *any* normal social situations, then I submit to you that you are just an asshole - regardless of any "oh well he's perfectly nice in person" sort of defense. Those are the people that make me hate anonymity on forums, which in the context of MMOs means the ability to hide your posts on a level 1 alt or whatever. I think the real name thing is a weird extra step beyond what is needed to fix that sort of thing, but I don't see any good reason to allow you to hide your list of alts when you step into the forum either. Really the real name thing doesn't really protect against this sort of behavior as well simply because attaching your character names is optional. Now if your list of characters was mandatory and you could attach your RealID optionally instead, then we'd be getting somewhere.

Is it sad that I immediately had VN flashbacks of very specific people when I read that?

Probably not, since VN is the fire in which the sword of my hate was forged.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 07, 2010, 04:16:15 PM
If you seriously behave the exact same way in every situation, I question your humanity and think that you may in fact be a robot, or an alien, or a robot alien.

At the same time if you behave in such a way when anonymous that wouldn't be acceptable in *any* normal social situations, then I submit to you that you are just an asshole - regardless of any "oh well he's perfectly nice in person" sort of defense. Those are the people that make me hate anonymity on forums, which in the context of MMOs means the ability to hide your posts on a level 1 alt or whatever. I think the real name thing is a weird extra step beyond what is needed to fix that sort of thing, but I don't see any good reason to allow you to hide your list of alts when you step into the forum either. Really the real name thing doesn't really protect against this sort of behavior as well simply because attaching your character names is optional. Now if your list of characters was mandatory and you could attach your RealID optionally instead, then we'd be getting somewhere.

You're assuming this is an attempt to stop trolling, it isn't.

I think people are upset about this is because it combines, or potentially combines, parts of their life they don't want combined. (Along with a host of other reasons which have been well articulated enough that I need not repeat them here).  I probably should have quoted to make it more clear, but I was responding particularly to Caladein, and the idea that people don't have separate identities.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 07, 2010, 04:16:47 PM
Yeah, I think Zuckerman is just plain wrong based on what he said in that article.  Let me summarize: People behave differently in different social situations, hanging out with friends, at a family reuinion, at work, playing games on the internet, whatever.  Different social rules apply.  At work, professionally I need to be serious, with my family I can be more relaxed but generally a little more reserved, and with my friends I can say whatever the hell I want.  The problem is that when your with friends social situation collide with your professional social situation, you get behavior that seems inappropriate because its been brought into a foreign situation.

If you seriously behave the exact same way in every situation, I question your humanity and think that you may in fact be a robot, or an alien, or a robot alien.

Something about actors and stages and different parts....


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: ahoythematey on July 07, 2010, 04:17:27 PM
I honestly don't get how Internet Dragons is different from everything else one does and that if I put up something that says "This is who I am." and intentionally hide something, I'm lying to you before we've even met.

Are you into S&M?  Do you enjoy watching digital avatars simulate sexual intercourse?  What's your opinion on anal beads?  Many employers view adult gamers in the same light as they would "sexual deviance", and though it is not fair, that's the world we all live in, you included.  In other words: Welcome to Reality, where people lie about themselves all the time for a variety of reasons.  Stop being obtuse.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: AutomaticZen on July 07, 2010, 04:19:32 PM
It should be pointed out that while you *can* hide your shit away on Facebook, it sounds like this particular guy *didn't* and that is where a lot of that information came from.

I was going to point this out, but you got there first.

Quote
Okay, we're cool.  Just one more thing.  If you want to play an MMO with other people on the internet, is there any other relatively good option other than WoW?  Not really.  So it's not like you can just play a different game because they all monumentally blow, right?

Half this forum is finding the alternatives.  We spend half the time lamenting WoWness in other games (see SWTOR thread).

Again, to clarify, I'm not in favor of RealID.  I'm fine with it as long as it's an option I don't have to use.  Once it becomes the opposite, I'll opt out of WoW.  

A number of us here (like myself) use the same alias across a number of services anyways, so the difference between fake name and real name is completely moot.  The only way to prevent issues in that is to actively police that stuff like WindupAtheist.  In that story earlier, the real problem was a Facebook account.  Or a Twitter account.  The real problem is the internet and the fact that this doesn't exist in the vacuum.  

Quote
I think people are upset about this is because it combines, or potentially combines, parts of their life they don't want combined.

Which I can understand completely.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ningauble on July 07, 2010, 04:20:09 PM
In most other contexts, especially ones related to leisure time and entertainment, people don't normally disclose this sort of information to the people they are enjoying it with, and if they do so, they do so voluntarily.

If I go to the movies, I don't have to wear a name-tag disclosing my real name to everyone else in the theatre.  If someone is making alot of noise and disrupting the experience, people can complain to the management and they can deal with it themselves.

If I go to disney land and want to ride the Pirates of the Caribbean theme park ride, they don't have a giant red neon sign advertising my name when I get into the seat.

If I go play a pickup game of basketball at the local park, I may give people my first name, but I wouldn't normally volunteer my full name.  And if my name was Humperdinck Q. Lipshitz, I could go by a nickname instead.

This whole thing seems unnatural to me.  I participate in and have participated in maybe a dozen or so online forums over the past 10 years.  Some are heavily moderated and some are not.  None of them require me to expose my personal name or personal email address if I choose not to.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 07, 2010, 04:21:42 PM
If I put up something that says "this is who I am" and omit unnecessary information, I'm not lying. My resume does not include my failed attempt at a highschool band. I'm not lying about the fact that I am a terrible guitar player, I'm simply not including irrelevant information. My conversations at a party do not include the every detail of my work (hell, probably because I signed something that says I can't tell everyone everything I do. I'm a contractually bound liar!)

That's not what I'm really talking about though.  But if the sign says "This is who I am." and you're actually only showing "This is who I want to be if someone's looking to hire me." then yes, that's lying by omission.  A resume is a different prompt of "Who are you professionally?" then Facebook's "Who are you?"

If someone decides to take into account something that isn't relevant in their decision-making process, that's a problem with them.  Now, if you don't find lying about yourself morally objectionable, or have a different definition of what "lying about oneself" is, that's a different matter.  I don't want to lie about myself to get a job (I will admit in some part because I don't have to at this point in my life).

(And you are a contractually-bound liar, but we're okay with having people do not-good things in systems designed to produce a good outcome.)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 07, 2010, 04:21:58 PM
Since names are the topic now, A+ for using "Ningauble".  :heart:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 07, 2010, 04:25:24 PM
That's not what I'm really talking about though.  But if the sign says "This is who I am." and you're actually only showing "This is who I want to be if someone's looking to hire me." then yes, that's lying by omission.  A resume is a different prompt of "Who are you professionally?" then Facebook's "Who are you?"

If someone decides to take into account something that isn't relevant in their decision-making process, that's a problem with them.  Now, if you don't find lying about yourself morally objectionable, or have a different definition of what "lying about oneself" is, that's a different matter.  I don't want to lie about myself to get a job (I will admit in some part because I don't have to at this point in my life).

(And you are a contractually-bound liar, but we're okay with having people do not-good things in systems designed to produce a good outcome.)

Okay, do you understand that things like RealID offer an insight into "Who are you?" when the question is "Who are you professionally?"


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 07, 2010, 04:26:37 PM
Some more speculation as to where this is coming from:

http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/zeroday/2010/07/07/is-korean-law-driving-policy-at-blizzard/

Apparently in South Korea, RealID is pretty much going to be required by law.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 07, 2010, 04:29:08 PM
I think it's a fair guess but it's not like there are no skeletons in the US version because of China.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 07, 2010, 04:30:55 PM
If I put up something that says "this is who I am" and omit unnecessary information, I'm not lying. My resume does not include my failed attempt at a highschool band. I'm not lying about the fact that I am a terrible guitar player, I'm simply not including irrelevant information. My conversations at a party do not include the every detail of my work (hell, probably because I signed something that says I can't tell everyone everything I do. I'm a contractually bound liar!)

That's not what I'm really talking about though.  But if the sign says "This is who I am." and you're actually only showing "This is who I want to be if someone's looking to hire me." then yes, that's lying by omission.  A resume is a different prompt of "Who are you professionally?" then Facebook's "Who are you?"

If someone decides to take into account something that isn't relevant in their decision-making process, that's a problem with them.  Now, if you don't find lying about yourself morally objectionable, or have a different definition of what "lying about oneself" is, that's a different matter.  I don't want to lie about myself to get a job (I will admit in some part because I don't have to at this point in my life).

(And you are a contractually-bound liar, but we're okay with having people do not-good things in systems designed to produce a good outcome.)

I don't consider omitting useless information to be lying. At all. My facebook page is a page for my friends to use as a social link. It does not include much information at all. Not because I'm hiding it, but because it's completely useless in the grand scheme of why it's there. "Who Am I" includes my income, my expenditures, my SSN, my dating history (amusingly, I don't believe there's even a field for that in facebook, just current dating situation), how much I paid for my place, who I loaned money to, or any other number of things that are just not publicly needed information in order to know who I am.

Every transaction has a list of information needed to process it. Every social encounter is a transaction (with admittedly rather fluid rules of what is needed). What I'm saying is that not providing useless information is not lying. Willfully omitting useful information however, is.

Blizzard for example does not need to know I'm dating someone. There's just no real reason for it, it's a commercial transaction. The woman I'm chatting up at the bar? If I don't tell HER I'm dating someone, that's lying by omission, even if she doesn't ask, it's relevant information.

Taking the stance that not including EVERYTHING about you at all times is essentially calling everyone on the planet liars, because we don't spend three hours giving backstory every time we meet a new person.

I'm not lying by failing to tell you the source code to a project I'm working on, I'm honestly telling you that no, I can't talk about that. I'd be lying if I told you false information, or acted like I didn't know what code you could be talking about.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 07, 2010, 04:31:16 PM
Okay, do you understand that things like RealID offer an insight into "Who are you?" when the question is "Who are you professionally?"

Facebook and Blizzard aren't doing that.  The person hiring you is the one conflating the two questions and answers.

Now, if you're okay with preemptively lying to counteract someone being... an idiot (for lack of a better word), then I can't get to angry about that.  Both because it's your own judgement call and because I haven't had to be in that position myself.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: patience on July 07, 2010, 04:33:44 PM
As someone who has consistently used the same internet handle on most messageboards (the exceptions being gaming forums because of the tying of in-game names to forum postings, the rare time I get banned and using adult forums) this idea of using realid doesn't bother as much. I pretty much already tied my real life persona to my official internet persona.

What bothers me personally is the persistence of this system. I don't want to be reminded someone is online, nor do I want others to know I'm online and friend requests get a bit tiresome especially from friends of a friend and people who I knew in the past I'm not interested in befriending.

My biggest concern is that realID gives ethugs too many offensive tools. Even irl I can rub people the wrong way but when that happens I know it immediately and I usually can resolve the situation or be aware of the threat. If I piss off someone online they'll have a huge advantage in harassing me. That first strike I've seen in news reports has already managed to ruin lives and I'm not interested in that.

Technically this whole realID thing is only for forum postings but there's no guarantee this information can only be gathered through forums. I'm strongly considering on getting my preorder for Starcraft 2 now.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 07, 2010, 04:34:53 PM
Facebook and Blizzard aren't doing that.  The person hiring you is the one conflating the two questions and answers.

Now, if you're okay with preemptively lying to counteract someone being... an idiot (for lack of a better word), then I can't get to angry about that.  Both because it's your own judgement call and because I haven't had to be in that position myself.

Then I've got nothing. You're dim.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 07, 2010, 04:36:57 PM
All things considered, you're probably right.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 07, 2010, 04:41:31 PM
but not for Blizzard employees, apparently (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25626460694&sid=1)
Quote
This post WILL get deleted, Im just trying to get this information out so other people will realize how much Blizzard is screwing us over.

After a long talk with a few Blizzard phone reps, it turns out BLUES will NOT have their real names posted in the forums due to "Security Concerns." Blues are free to hide from the nightmare RealID will turn these forums into, and yet we, the paying customers, will be forced into it?

Thats right everyone, YOU will have to reveal your real name in order to post on these forums. Blues, on the other hand "Cannot risk having their personal lives compromised by in-game issues" (Thanks, Josh with no last name - thats a gem).

I have already canceled my account and filed a complaint with the ESRB about all of this, I suggest you do the same.

It turns out that yes, this post was bullshit:

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/25833934170/i-have-a-question/


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 07, 2010, 04:44:55 PM
I'm going to take a wild stab at "a large portion of the CM team and anyone else who posts on the forums threatened to quit/lynch the management"


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Merusk on July 07, 2010, 04:46:57 PM
All things considered, you're probably right.

No probably about it. You're a moron living in a cloud of rainbows and bubblegum roses.  Considering you're an undergrad who has had to deal with zero professional repercussions of anything you've ever done, this isn't surprising.

Make sure you detail the time spent on F13, Blogging and other websites on your resume when you go looking for a job.  Otherwise you're lying and not giving your potential employers a good picture of the 'real' you.  If they're not enlightened enough to not confuse your private life with your budding professional life, that's their problem, not yours man.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 07, 2010, 04:52:03 PM
All things considered, you're probably right.

No probably about it. You're a moron living in a cloud of rainbows and bubblegum roses.  Considering you're an undergrad who has had to deal with zero professional repercussions of anything you've ever done, this isn't surprising.

Make sure you detail the time spent on F13, Blogging and other websites on your resume when you go looking for a job.  Otherwise you're lying and not giving your potential employers a good picture of the 'real' you.  If they're not enlightened enough to not confuse your private life with your budding professional life, that's their problem, not yours man.

No, the blogging and f13 wouldn't go on my resume but they would invariably show up in a Google search of my name (along with lots of other boring things) and there's nothing I can do about that.  If my potential employer decides to confuse the two, at that point that'd be both our problems :awesome_for_real:.

Edit: Potential employer, and that's being generous I suppose.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: LK on July 07, 2010, 04:52:52 PM
I've thought long and hard about this, and... well, I can't think about it anymore.

Let 'em do it. Damn the torpedos. Full speed ahead.

Anyone who posts on the forum needs to recognize what they are doing. Women won't likely post due to stigmas. Men with nothing to lose and don't care about their future will do stupid shit. The internet will go on. Every Blizzard employee that posts on the forums and posts the least bit inflammatory or non-PC thing will be subject to scrutiny.

Most importantly, the volume of posts on the forum will go down significantly. I'm sure the mod team that can't grow beyond a certain point or budget will be appreciative, and Blizzard will get its not-shitty forums without shutting them down.

Any B.S. in their implementation (employee names still hidden, as an example) will get them ripped a new one. Then they'll release Diablo III and everyone will love them again even though it's posting Facebook updates every time you get a Stone of Jordan.

Honestly, I can't accept anymore convincing on this. It's the same arguments. They're going to do it; so adjust accordingly.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 07, 2010, 04:55:56 PM
Okay, we're cool.  Just one more thing.  If you want to play an MMO with other people on the internet, is there any other relatively good option other than WoW?  Not really.  So it's not like you can just play a different game because they all monumentally blow, right?

They have us by the balls and they know it.  They've known it for some time, but up until now they've been a force of good in the universe.  I had to suck it up and admit I was wrong in the SC2 thread when I was white knighting for them for just that reason.  But they're not the same anymore.  They've turned to the dark side.  Their ends are dubious because they're ignoring a legitimate privacy concern to advance a very dubious ethic that's being espoused by that Facebook dick.  He thinks being anonymous on the internet isn't productive and that the world would be a better place if we all called each other by our first names.  He's wrong.

They're not just competing with MMOs though, they're competing with every other leisure activity on the planet.  If all MMOs go to some objectionable place, there are still other things to do!

As for the white knighting, Simond brought up a good example: I really am on the odd side of this.  I actually do agree with Zuckerberg on this sort of thing (even though I think his company's implementation is bonkers) and it took Lum linking an (http://brokentoys.org/2010/07/06/realid-for-your-fakeorc/) NPR piece (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127374523) for me to see it articulated.

I honestly don't get how Internet Dragons is different from everything else one does and that if I put up something that says "This is who I am." and intentionally hide something, I'm lying to you before we've even met.

Okay, since I think this is the heart of the matter here, I'm going to ignore pretty much everything else.  First of all, let me just say that I'm okay that you want to be open, and I think that there should be a way for people who want to be open post their real identities on the internet.

You probably don't know any people in your real life that you'd think are capable of some crazy shit.  But what if you do?  You think they wear name-tags that say, "I like to eat people?"  What if that Hannibal Lecter mother fucker is that dude you kicked out of your guild?  I've been a guild master.  I know there are mother fuckers out there who would have done something to me if they knew who I was.  They did plenty of shit without that information.  What you and the Facebook Dickhead are saying to me is, "Maybe I should be nicer to him because he knows who you are."  What I'm saying is no, that mother fucker is crazy, and there's no way a video game is worth him knowing who I am.  Would you let your daughter post her real name?  Your sister?  Your wife?  Not a chance in hell, man.  The difference between posting your info on Facebook and what Blizzard is doing is that if I'm encouraged to give my name out to strangers over internet games, and I even accidentally or unknowingly give them a reason, it will be me who is fucked.  On Facebook, you'd have to try to get a stalker.  On WoW, man, those mother fuckers are out there.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 07, 2010, 05:02:09 PM
"shoulda been nicer to them" is also great for guys, but for girls it's pretty much "shoulda been born a dude. sucks to be you!"

Seriously, it's not JUST an internet thing. Go out to a club sometime. Notice the girls in little clumps? Ever wonder why that is? Because there are some creepy fuckers out there, and they're backing each other up while having a fun night out. I object to the idea that they're lying liars if they don't broadcast their phone number and home address to every idiot in the room at all times.

But on a less serious note, from the wow forum thread, have a dose of meta trolling:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Opposers-of-the-Opposition-of-Real-ID-on-Blizzard-Forums/111092162272655


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 07, 2010, 05:13:14 PM
No, the blogging and f13 wouldn't go on my resume but they would invariably show up in a Google search of my name (along with lots of other boring things) and there's nothing I can do about that.  If my potential employer decides to confuse the two, at that point that'd be both our problems :awesome_for_real:.

Edit: Potential employer, and that's being generous I suppose.

You are in for the most hilarious wake up call in a few years, kid.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Draegan on July 07, 2010, 05:16:20 PM
He should have a fine career in the service industry.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 07, 2010, 05:32:41 PM
Really now?

To Musashi's point (and tangentially Modern Angel's), it's not like I don't understand that assholes exist and that people can make mortal enemies through the course of their life.  I just don't think the possibility of someone wanting to do me serious, or not-so-serious, harm is cause to transgress against everyone else.  That's going to seem completely bonkers to some, I know.

Anyway, since we're sort of at first-principles, I'll bow out, don't want to overstay my welcome.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 07, 2010, 05:35:11 PM
Really now?

To Musashi's point (and tangentially Modern Angel's), it's not like I don't understand that assholes exist and that people can make mortal enemies through the course of their life.  I just don't think the possibility of someone wanting to do me serious, or not-so-serious, harm is cause to transgress against everyone else.  That's going to seem completely bonkers to some, I know.

Anyway, since we're sort of at first-principles, I'll bow out, don't want to overstay my welcome.

I just don't think you realize how seriously some employers take things that you would just consider "not important."  You dismiss it as "well they just shouldn't take it into account" and maybe they shouldn't but they do.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Merusk on July 07, 2010, 06:01:20 PM
No, he's under the delusion that he's special and unique and somehow his abilities will shine through all prejudice.  Don't you remember being the same way before you hit the professional world and realized just how interchangeable you are?

Or maybe I just feel that way about employees because I used to manage.  I certainly had some valuable ones but nobody was irreplaceable.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Numtini on July 07, 2010, 07:17:40 PM
I think privacy standards will change. There's no way they really can't because there are too many people with too many "unacceptable" things out there. But they haven't yet.

And even if standards do change, that's still very very different from handing every freako stalker in game my legal name.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fabricated on July 07, 2010, 07:23:33 PM
Blizzard to everyone: Shut up, nerds. It's happening. (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13816838128&sid=1&pageNo=203#4053)

edit for work browsing.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 07, 2010, 07:26:14 PM
Blizzard to everyone: Shut up, nerds. It's happening. (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13816838128&sid=1&pageNo=203#4053)

edit for work browsing.

You know, I never thought "I wish I knew the real name of the guy who posted the ASCII art of Captian Picard blowing Barney the Dinosaur." I just thought, "Man, Blizz needs to balls up and moderate their goddamn forums."



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 07, 2010, 07:27:11 PM
Blizzard to everyone: Shut up, nerds. It's happening. (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13816838128&sid=1&pageNo=203#4053)

edit for work browsing.

TLDR Version:
"Don't like it, Don't Post.  Everyone complaining is a troll anyway." :uhrr:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on July 07, 2010, 07:34:08 PM
(I am probably far too old and cranky to attract any new lovelorn stalkers, although it's possible I would still get some I WILL MAKE THAT BITCH SHUT UP ones)

I actually elected to stalk Ingmar, you scare me.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: MisterNoisy on July 07, 2010, 08:15:18 PM
I'm with the guys that are surmising that this is mostly an effort to stealth-nuke their forums.  It's not like the OForums were worthwhile before, so this just reduces their moderation load.  If the software tells you that your post will be laid bare before the intertubes with your real name attached, you have nobody but yourself to blame for clicking 'Post'.

The exposure of RealIDs to addons without any sort of checks is a bit more troublesome, particularly since they initially pushed RealID as an opt-in.  Fortunately, I bailed out of the game prior to the battle.net integration, so I can just watch the trainwreck in progress.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sjofn on July 07, 2010, 08:29:29 PM
(I am probably far too old and cranky to attract any new lovelorn stalkers, although it's possible I would still get some I WILL MAKE THAT BITCH SHUT UP ones)

I actually elected to stalk Ingmar, you scare me.

Story of my life. Seriously, most of the dudes we meet online develop mancrushes on Ingmar, it's pretty adorable.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 07, 2010, 08:36:15 PM
(I am probably far too old and cranky to attract any new lovelorn stalkers, although it's possible I would still get some I WILL MAKE THAT BITCH SHUT UP ones)

I actually elected to stalk Ingmar, you scare me.

Story of my life. Seriously, most of the dudes we meet online develop mancrushes on Ingmar, it's pretty adorable.

*shrug* He's got nice legs in a skirt.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sjofn on July 07, 2010, 08:37:35 PM
Hey, I'm not questioning it! I'm pretty fond of him myself.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 07, 2010, 08:37:48 PM
I'm with the guys that are surmising that this is mostly an effort to stealth-nuke their forums.  It's not like the OForums were worthwhile before, so this just reduces their moderation load.  If the software tells you that your post will be laid bare before the intertubes with your real name attached, you have nobody but yourself to blame for clicking 'Post'.

The exposure of RealIDs to addons without any sort of checks is a bit more troublesome, particularly since they initially pushed RealID as an opt-in.  Fortunately, I bailed out of the game prior to the battle.net integration, so I can just watch the trainwreck in progress.

Dude, was it really so broken that they needed to go through all this fallout they so accurately predicted?  What would make it worth it?  Oh, I know.  Money.  Money from Facebook ads.  And microtrans money from Facebook apps.  Please believe it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: MisterNoisy on July 07, 2010, 08:48:14 PM
I'm with the guys that are surmising that this is mostly an effort to stealth-nuke their forums.  It's not like the OForums were worthwhile before, so this just reduces their moderation load.  If the software tells you that your post will be laid bare before the intertubes with your real name attached, you have nobody but yourself to blame for clicking 'Post'.

The exposure of RealIDs to addons without any sort of checks is a bit more troublesome, particularly since they initially pushed RealID as an opt-in.  Fortunately, I bailed out of the game prior to the battle.net integration, so I can just watch the trainwreck in progress.

Dude, was it really so broken that they needed to go through all this fallout they so accurately predicted?  What would make it worth it?  Oh, I know.  Money.  Money from Facebook ads.  And microtrans money from Facebook apps.  Please believe it.

I'm with you - this is a pretty terrible thing all the way around, and whether the order came from within Blizz itself or from Kotick, et. al. it's a pretty heinous thing to do to your fans.  Like I said - I'm glad I haven't played in a while.    Ultimately though, I think that some guy just figured they'd spend less on support if they just tacnuked their forums.

I hope there's a mass exodus from their games when this goes live just to ensure that nobody else gets the idea that this is a viable way to do business, but between the retarded Facebook kids and the legions of addicts that'll endure pretty much anything for 'just one more drop', I think that we may well be watching 'something important' re: online gaming happening.

That said, this will provide not just a little amusement in the short-term either way.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pantastic on July 07, 2010, 09:34:09 PM
The exposure of RealIDs to addons without any sort of checks is a bit more troublesome, particularly since they initially pushed RealID as an opt-in.  Fortunately, I bailed out of the game prior to the battle.net integration, so I can just watch the trainwreck in progress.

That's the part of this that I really don't like. Real names on the forums is annoying and will probably kill their usefulness, but I can just opt out of the forums, though I really do consider tech support and customer service part of what you pay for with the game. But with them putting RealID into everything else, how long is it going to be until you can't effectively play the game without using your real name? You currently can't use cross-realm and cross-game chat without revealing it, and that's a pretty big feature. As time goes on, there will probably be more major features off-limits to character names. I suspect players will push it too, how many raiding guilds will require people to RealID friend guild officers so they can coordinate things easily?

And they're not being careful with handing out your information or giving you control over it. It's not just your Real ID friends that see your real name, any friends of Real ID friends see it. Right now, unless you go to parental controls and disable Real ID, any add-on can pull your real name and send that info to any or everyone on your server. According to Blizzard's privacy page, this information should only be shared either on an opt-in basis or with verified third parties, but that's not the case. For the first 5 years of the game, you only had to worry about a malicious add-on messing up your game stuff, but now you have to trust add-ons enough to reveal personal information to them.

The real name on forums thing is really just the tip of the iceberg, unless they change their plans I think that within the next year you should only play WOW if you're fine with playing under your given name or if you use a fake name to register. You've got high odds of it being revealed either accidentally or deliberately either on the google-indexed forums or to some random third party even if you choose not to use any new features.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 07, 2010, 10:06:01 PM
So I didn't read all ten pages of this thread, but I get the feeling most people are against this.  I think it's awesome.  The forums are bullshit.  It's just a lot of dancing to try and get a blue response.  Or worse.  Personally, I've never been big into posting, despite some hardcore MMO stints.  If I was going to post, I'd post in the guild forums.  But really, I never saw the need to post on the official forums. 

I do sympathize with people who are worried about professional contacts Googling their names and seeing a shitload of Warcraft posts.  That would be the only reason I wouldn't post.  And ultimately, big deal? Who cares about posting on the official forums?  I mean does anyone really care?  I'm seeing a lot of bitching but I don't get why it's so damn important.  Doesn't everyone pretty much just lurk?  Where is the community on the official forums? 

I think this will cut down on the vast majority of bullshit that goes on in the forums.  This will just make it easier for me to glean information from them when I lurk. 


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ginaz on July 07, 2010, 10:22:49 PM
Anyone who thinks this is being done to protect us from the nasty trolls needs to pull their head out of their naive ass.  It has everything to do with Blizzard's recent deal with Facebook.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2010/05/blizzard-and-facebooks-friendly-social-networking-deal-launches-with-starcraft-ii-/1 (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2010/05/blizzard-and-facebooks-friendly-social-networking-deal-launches-with-starcraft-ii-/1)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 07, 2010, 10:34:36 PM
I don't think it's being done to protect me.  I just see all positives for me personally from this.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ginaz on July 07, 2010, 10:37:56 PM
I don't think it's being done to protect me.  I just see all positives for me personally from this.

Then you're very shortsighted


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rasix on July 07, 2010, 10:38:06 PM
I don't think it's being done to protect me.  I just see all positives for me personally from this.

Like someone being able to gank your name via addon? Yah, that's swell.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 07, 2010, 10:47:36 PM
I don't think it's being done to protect me.  I just see all positives for me personally from this.

Then you're very shortsighted


Why?  I don't post.  This only improves the signal to noise ratio for lurkers.  Everyone needs to relax.

edited


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 07, 2010, 10:56:24 PM
Why?  I don't post.  This only improves the signal to noise ratio for lurkers.  Everyone needs to relax.


I'm just unclear on step 2. Blizz doesn't moderate their forums beyond a bare minimum of bare minimums, so how is showing Assy McAsses' real name going to stop him from posting garbage? Maybe it'll even up the stakes, "Assy, my man, I can't believe you posted that! High five!"


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Tarami on July 07, 2010, 10:58:40 PM
Why?  I don't post.  This only improves the signal to noise ratio for lurkers.  Everyone needs to relax.
So you feel this Real ID thing has seen an entirely positive development since it was revealed?

Also, nobody here really cares about the official forums as discussion resource. That isn't what this is about.

Edit: Mandatory clarification...


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pantastic on July 07, 2010, 10:58:57 PM
And ultimately, big deal? Who cares about posting on the official forums?  I mean does anyone really care?

People who recruit using guild recruitment, who need tech support or customer support, and new players in the getting started forum just to name a few. The general forum is worthless, but there's a lot of useful stuff in other forums regardless of whether you use it or not. The fact that someone cannot make a class guide or try to recruit for a guild in the official forums without attaching their real name really will cut down on some of the useful information out there.

Oh, and parents who end up with their real name on a bunch of posts because they followed Blizzard's procedures and didn't realize they'd need to research and follow the news continuously on parental controls in a game to avoid personal information being published might care too.

Quote
I'm seeing a lot of bitching but I don't get why it's so damn important.

Go to the official forums, post "Hi I'm [Real Name], I don't see what the problem is with releasing personal information like this" and you'll get a phone call explaining the problem. Or many phone calls. Or Pizzas delivered. Aside from the damage to the usefulness that the forums do have, releasing personal information is a big deal.

Quote
I think this will cut down on the vast majority of bullshit that goes on in the forums.  This will just make it easier for me to glean information from them when I lurk... Why?  I don't post.  This only improves the signal to noise ratio for lurkers.  Everyone needs to relax.

Burning your house to the ground prevents termites from doing damage to it, but it isn't really a good plan. It won't be easier for you to glean information while lurking if people don't post information in the first place because they don't wish to do so under their real name, while a lot of trolls will either use a fake name on an account or just don't care. This will reduce the total number of posts on the forum, but it's very unlikely that it will increase the signal to noise ratio - I expect it to reduce far, far more signal than noise.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ginaz on July 07, 2010, 11:14:58 PM
I don't think it's being done to protect me.  I just see all positives for me personally from this.

Then you're very shortsighted


Why?  I don't post.  This only improves the signal to noise ratio for lurkers.  Everyone needs to relax.

edited

Because some of us do post.  I've posted numerous times in the technical/bug forums looking for advice with issues that come up over the years.  Now?  Not  a chance.  

Besides, I can see a time when your real name will be used in game:

[2. Trade] [Aliasguy@Joe Bloggins]: LF enchanter, have mats will tip


Don't think it will happen?  

We have no plans to allow PvE players to transfer to PvP realms.

We have no plans of allowing players on PvP realms to create characters of both factions on the same account.

We have no plans of selling anything that will directly affect gameplay, only cosmetic changes.

Battle.net is optional.

Real ID is a system designed to be used with people you know and trust in real life.

Sound familiar.


Just like soe and the whole swg/nge thing, Blizzard/Activision seem willing to lose some of the customers they have in the hopes that they will gain more in return with the whole integrated social networking thing.  They want to attract the millions of people playing Facebook games.  However, the number of people playing those games are on the decline and the people who play them (like my 60 year old aunt and 42 year old cousin) generally aren't gamers and have zero interest in playing the type of games Blizzard/Activision makes.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 07, 2010, 11:16:00 PM
Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of hyperbole.  Slippery slope argument is like, the most elemental fucknut argument that everyone learned in freshman debate class.  All anyone ever does is string out the opposing side of the argument they don't like into its most absurdly cruel stretch of the imagination. Then none of that shit they raised hell about ever comes to fruition. This change will be a net positive, guaranteed.

 Of course there will be people who shy away from positive contributions due to privacy concerns.  And of course there will still be plenty of people willing to post class guides and protips.  But the potential for massively undercutting all the rampant and flagrant douchebaggery is staggering.  If you remove all that douchebaggery the forums become vastly more usable for finding news and information.

*edited


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 07, 2010, 11:18:18 PM
Dude.  Do you realize how ironic your post is?

Anyway.  It's not really hyperbole.  They're going to sell you shit on Facebook.  Plan on it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 07, 2010, 11:20:36 PM
Dude.  Do you realize how ironic your post is?

Anyway.  It's not really hyperbole.  They're going to sell you shit on Facebook.  Plan on it.

No, I don't.  I mean, I see why you THINK it is.  But it's not.


Edit:  They've been selling shit on B.net for years.  Note the huge ad banner on top.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ginaz on July 07, 2010, 11:25:01 PM
Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of hyperbole.  Slippery slope argument is like, the most elemental fucknut argument that everyone learned in freshman debate class.  All anyone ever does is string out the opposing side of the argument they don't like into its most absurdly cruel stretch of the imagination.  This change will be a net positive, guaranteed.

 Of course there will be people who shy away from positive contributions due to privacy concerns.  And of course there will still be plenty of people willing to post class guides and protips.  But the potential for massively undercutting all the rampant and flagrant douchebaggery is staggering.  If you remove all that douchebaggery the forums become vastly more usable for finding news and information.

*edited

Trolls will stay.  Helpful and legitimate posters will leave. 


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: apocrypha on July 07, 2010, 11:29:31 PM
I think it's a fair guess but it's not like there are no skeletons in the US version because of China.

Hmm, I thought the no-skeletons thing in Chinese WoW was a rumour that had been quashed some time ago.

Correct me if I'm wrong someone but I seem to remember hearing that there is no taboo about skeletons in China and that it was a lie used to cover up obstructions put in WoW's path by the cultural ministry (or something similar) either because of a general attempt to reduce video game playing amongst the youth or as a protectionist measure in favour of China's own games developers.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 07, 2010, 11:32:47 PM
Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of hyperbole.  Slippery slope argument is like, the most elemental fucknut argument that everyone learned in freshman debate class.  All anyone ever does is string out the opposing side of the argument they don't like into its most absurdly cruel stretch of the imagination.  This change will be a net positive, guaranteed.

 Of course there will be people who shy away from positive contributions due to privacy concerns.  And of course there will still be plenty of people willing to post class guides and protips.  But the potential for massively undercutting all the rampant and flagrant douchebaggery is staggering.  If you remove all that douchebaggery the forums become vastly more usable for finding news and information.

*edited

Trolls will stay.  Helpful and legitimate posters will leave.  


I doubt that.  But we shall see.  If the forums are generally a better place once this all goes live will you agree with me or find another reason to disagree?  This is one of those issues where people tend to take a dogmatic approach.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pantastic on July 07, 2010, 11:38:36 PM
Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of hyperbole.  Slippery slope argument is like, the most elemental fucknut argument that everyone learned in freshman debate class.  All anyone ever does is string out the opposing side of the argument they don't like into its most absurdly cruel stretch of the imagination.  

Randomly accusing people of 'slipperly slope argument'  and 'hyperbole' without specifying what is supposedly hyperbole or slippery slope is like, the most elemental forum warrior argument that everyone learned in reading a list of logical fallacies. All anyone ever does is accuse the opposing side of some kind of fallacy without justifying it, then act like they one the argument.

Quote
Of course there will be people who shy away from positive contributions due to privacy concerns.  And of course there will still be plenty of people willing to post class guides and protips.  But the potential for massively undercutting all the rampant and flagrant douchebaggery is staggering.  If you remove all that douchebaggery the forums become vastly more usable for finding news and information.

No one has yet to provide any reason to believe that this change will actually remove douchbaggery from the forums. Some people have an account in another person's name, some used a fake name to register, some will create a fake name, some just don't care. I'm not sure how you expect this to make the forums more useful for finding news, since they sticky any news announcements, and you can go to a blue tracker site if you just want to see Blizzard's posts.

You also haven't provided an explanation of why you think that plenty of people will be willing to post class guides and tips. There are already only a limited number of people writing class guides, and many of them have not been updated in quite some time, so it doesn't sound like there are 'plenty' at the moment even without the changes. Instead of having 'anyone who plays and looks at the forums' giving protips, you reduce the pool to 'anyone who plays and looks at the forums and doesn't mind posting under their real name', which is a lot fewer people. Have you taken my 'post your name on the official forums stating that you don't think releasing names is a problem' challenge yet?

If you burn your house to the ground, the potential for termite damage is much less. It's still not a good plan. Releasing personal information about everyone who plays in order to stop people who might not have entered their real personal information from trolling is not a good plan.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 07, 2010, 11:52:52 PM
Dude.  Do you realize how ironic your post is?

Anyway.  It's not really hyperbole.  They're going to sell you shit on Facebook.  Plan on it.

No, I don't.  I mean, I see why you THINK it is.  But it's not.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/963220/dubious.gif)

Quote
Edit:  They've been selling shit on B.net for years.  Note the huge ad banner on top.

Nice.  That banner doesn't have any personal information, and neither does your old handle on B.net.  Facebook does.  It's not simply a matter of not posting on forums.  There's more.  If this works for Blizzard, then what's to stop every swinging dick from using Facebook as a login platform for their games.  Think of the ease at which they'll be able to moderate their forums!  That's not what this is about, guy. 

OH.  But think of how awesome it will be to live in a world where everyone's video game achievements are spammed on their Facebook accounts.  It will force everyone to look at us deviant gamers in a different light when they realize just how many of us there are.  But yea, I can opt out still, I guess.  When I whack a foozle and the Facebook window comes up and asks me if I'd like to share this glorious achievement with everyone I know, I can just click no.  How awesome does that sound?  Come on.

You just killed your 100th skeleton!  Would you like to share this accomplishment with your friends?

"Sorry you guys died there.  Facebook window popped up."


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Quinton on July 08, 2010, 12:08:35 AM
No, he's under the delusion that he's special and unique and somehow his abilities will shine through all prejudice.  Don't you remember being the same way before you hit the professional world and realized just how interchangeable you are?

It depends what you do and where you work.  The fact that I indulge in some online gaming, I'm left-leaning, I've posted to the linux kernel mailing list, etc, etc has zero impact on my career.  However, I also recognize that many people do not have such a luxury and worse many don't even realize just how readily available information about them can be.

Further, I strongly feel that forcing your users to reveal personal identifying information is a really, really bad idea.  Serious legal liability bad, especially if you're a big, profitable corporation in this highly litigious country.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: zwohand on July 08, 2010, 12:17:03 AM
That whole shit was Koticks idea.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 08, 2010, 12:46:58 AM
Blizzard Real ID (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NgAkWxcPBE&feature=player_embedded)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fordel on July 08, 2010, 01:09:23 AM
Blizzard Real ID (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NgAkWxcPBE&feature=player_embedded)


The Dance  :heart:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: waffel on July 08, 2010, 01:21:19 AM
Go to the official forums, post "Hi I'm [Real Name], I don't see what the problem is with releasing personal information like this" and you'll get a phone call explaining the problem.

That pretty much sums it up.

"I don't care about Hitler because I'm not a Jew"




edit: page 11. Too soon to 'Godwin's'?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ashamanchill on July 08, 2010, 01:28:25 AM
Sorry I'm posting so late with this.

For all those who are questioning the opposition to this, lets stand back and do a small pros and cons list of it all. At it's very best, it can brighten someones day' 'Oh hey, the forums are the snarling morass they once were! Neat!'  The worse case scenario is someone, or god forbid there kid, ends up getting severely harassed, denied jobs, or stalked. The scales seem tilted a little out of whack on this one. Forum trolls were a slight nuisance before, but the kind of potentially criminal behavior this empowers is staggering.

As for the theory of nuking the forums from orbit, I find it a little hard to believe that Blizzard can be that stupid. They must have their lawyers telling them what a legal can of worms this is opening. If anything, their forums will have to me even more tightly moderated. If someones life does end up being fucked over by this, I hope they manage to successfully take Blizz to court and wring every last penny out of them, I really do.

This idea is just jaw droppingly bad. It reeks of what you all have said, an out of touch corporate wanker who is being simply obdurate now that everyone else has exposed all the glaring flaws in his pet project. The thing is, with this stupid plan, it doesnt matter what they get right with cataclysm. The xpac could be the best xpac in the history of releases (not likely), but if one of the many scenarios we described happens it takes far more precedence then any game.

The more and more I think about it, this looks like a line in the sand, and one I'm not willing to cross. I can't tell you how badly I was looking forward to playing wow in two (long) months. But not with this. To me this exposes the total derision they have for their customers. To not care about the potential hazard this opens on them just to make some blood money of facebook maybe, in some peoples eyes, morally neutral, but it is absolutely unethical.

Senjinn (sorry forget how it's spelled), DLRiley, and all the other wow haters on these boards, I hope you are eating your hearts out, I really do. There is no defending this move. Period.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ashamanchill on July 08, 2010, 01:33:40 AM
On the lighter side of things...

I'm trying to picture how this one is going to work out in more authoritarian markets, like China.

**A man gets a knock on his door in the middle of the night**
'Hello, we're from the Ministry of Peace and Justice, are you Zhou Wang?'
'Um, yes sir.'
'The same Zhou Wang who posted on the WoW forums about how hunters should be nerfed?'
'Yes'
'Well, as you know, our eminent Premier plays a hunter. You're coming with us.'


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Vision on July 08, 2010, 03:02:01 AM
The whole "keeping the forums clean" concept wouldn't even work in the first place if personal information wasn't already abundantly available on the web. It would hold no weight if Jon Smith 1 threatens to defile Jon Smith 2 mom. Real names would be as pointless as character names. Which means that this entire "honor" system relies on the info trade within the net itself, thereby in turn promoting the idea of personal security breaches even further.

The whole thought process behind RealID relies on the threat of personal security compromises to "encourage" WoW players to learn morals.

Fucked up IMO.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 08, 2010, 04:15:31 AM
Just for shits and giggles I sent a civil but hurfblurfy email to billing, claiming that my account is played by my imaginary teenage son, and that it was only established in my name because he was a kid at the time. I don't mind Junior posting on the forums, you see, but I don't want all his bullshit appearing under my name for obvious reasons. So I'm demanding they change the name on the account. I'm pretty good at the whole "I'm not gonna go bonkers and say fuck so you can write me off, but I'm gonna be a demanding prick" thing.

It'd be nice if they changed it, but mostly I think I'm just trolling Blizzard CS. Fuck 'em, they've used up all my goodwill.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 08, 2010, 04:33:33 AM
Pretty cool harassing dudes making 30k a year to carry out Blizzard brass' harebrained scheme, bro.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 08, 2010, 04:38:06 AM
Spare me. They get paid X dollars to read bullshit email for X hours. The fact that I'm shitting up the system with my fake email doesn't really change their day one bit. Besides, I gave them my real name before all this bullshit existed. Now that it does, they owe me the chance to change the entry. I doubt I'll get it, but hey.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 08, 2010, 04:43:08 AM
You're allowed. I've gotten to see the opposite end of the email, the guy at the terminal wondering why the fuck the company he works for makes so many bad decisions but he's got rent to pay, kids to feed and a car to fix so what the fuck can he do about it? Tear it up but it doesn't make you any less of a fucking asshole for contributing to the nice big greasy dump those wage slaves get to go through everyday.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 08, 2010, 04:52:32 AM
Yeah, those poor bastards, having to read civil but firmly unhappy emails like mine and mostly respond with form letters. It's a fucking salt mine they work in. Hell it's not even phone work we're talking about, where some tard gets on and won't stop talking and you can't hang up. It's email.

You know what? Fuck you. It's an easy, easy job they have.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 08, 2010, 04:59:34 AM
Oh right, the civil letter with the imaginary people in it, asking them to waste some time doing things with imaginary people. Nobody said it was hard. Man the fuck up and admit that being a douchebag was THE ENTIRE FUCKING POINT.

"but I'm gonna be a demanding prick"

You said it right there. Don't fucking backpedal and say what you're doing is some nice, unobtrusive thing and I have you read all wrong. You're being a prick, the stated goal was to be a prick so don't go saying "I'm not a prick!" when I point out that MISSION ACCOMPLISHED you're a fucking prick.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 08, 2010, 05:16:09 AM
From the US forums via EJ:
Quote
Got in touch with my ex-flatmate, whose sister works as a GM for Blizzard, to see what the internal buzz on this was. Apparently, at the moment the employees are largely as pissed as the players, and she stated that despite attempts to keep it hushed, it has become known that the big creative players within Blizzard are pretty much as unhappy about this as we are. Everybody has been told they are not free to comment on this situation outside of specially prepared statements.

It's still going ahead, however (and here's where in-house rumours and hearsay really start coming into play): from what they've picked up, the Blizzard leads have been told in no uncertain terms that the non-gameplay-related direction of the game is working to a different blueprint now. GC and company are free to play with shiny new talent trees all they like, for example, but for the first time the decisions regarding Battle.net implementation, Real ID, and plans for the general acquisition of new players for the business are no longer in Blizzard's own hands, and that's not going down too well.
Bobby Kotick strikes again!


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 08, 2010, 05:27:53 AM
But this time it was supposed to be different!

Someday all these dev houses are going to figure out that signing on with a big publishing conglomerate, no matter how many honeyed promises of total creative control forever and ever, simply isn't going to be the best thing long term. I mean creatively. Obviously they could fire everyone at Blizzard tomorrow and the brass are going to make out like bandits.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Tebonas on July 08, 2010, 05:32:04 AM
I better get used to Torchlight being the closest to a Diablo 3 I will ever see on my computer then.

And I look forward to illegal filesharing being blamed for the diminishing sales instead of fuckwits like Bobby Kotick.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 08, 2010, 05:33:23 AM
Fuck it, why not pirate SC2/D3/etc? It's probably more morally justifiable than giving Activision money at the moment.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Trippy on July 08, 2010, 05:37:58 AM
Vivendi still owns Activision Blizzard. At some point they are going to have to step in a fix the mess that the Activision part of the holding company has become. Vivendi was very careful to let Blizzard be Blizzard when they were part of Vivendi Games as Vivendi knew Blizzard was the goose laying the golden eggs for them. If it's true that Activision is now mucking with Blizzard Vivendi better put an end to that pronto.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 08, 2010, 05:44:09 AM
I don't think it's being done to protect me.  I just see all positives for me personally from this.

Then you're very shortsighted


Why?  I don't post.  This only improves the signal to noise ratio for lurkers.  Everyone needs to relax.

edited

Wild guess: you have a penis, and have not personally had friends who lack such equipment have ... let's say Issues on the internets.

This improves the signal to noise ratio for lurkers in a very bad way. People lurking for game information? Not really. People lurking for personal information? Woo! Signal's loud and clear!


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 08, 2010, 05:58:05 AM
I just see all positives for me personally from this.

Oh, so you just don't care what happens to anyone else as long as its good for you, thats cool then. :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 08, 2010, 06:08:41 AM
Well we still have no indication that outrage will actually lead to significant revenue loss. People may grumble but keep playing.

This is about money. Money from lead generation. I'm sure most people understand this system already but the basic idea is to collect personal data about people. It already happens all over the internet. Netflix keeps track of the type of film you like so that your netflix page will show stuff in the same vein. Google will show different search results depending on past searches so if you search for Eve you'll get game-related stuff if you've googled game stuff in the past but more Christian stuff if you've googled mainly biblical themes.

What precisely their eventual business model will be we don't know but this part is the hard part: getting the client base to accept that it's ok for the company to publicise their real name. From here it's only quite small not terribly controversial steps to ask people what music they like and where they shop.

If you have enough data on people you can market much more effectively. Suppose you're trying to sell music to 10 million people. You could just pick something generically popular like Frank Sinatra and send it to everyone. But if you have specific data on each person you could sell Metallica to the metal fans, Verdi to the classical opera buffs etc. That's a much more effective advertising campaign than trying to sell Metallica to everyone, including the classical opera buffs.

Why it's so bad that they are doing it this way is not that your real name is made public, most of us are in the phone listings anyway. It's that your ID is public in the very heated context of gaming.

Corpse camp someone? While he's lying there maybe he's alt tabbed to google finding out where you work. Undercut someone on the auction house? Race someone to a rare mining node and win?

So there's a real chance that a really angry person might be sitting there thinking how can I fuck this guy up while looking at your personal information. Expect pizzas to start arriving. Expect anything vaguely embarassing that appeared online at some stage to get re-posted somewhere.

It's the lethal cocktail of nerd rage with accessibility to other players real lives that makes this disturbing.

I'm a librarian. I work with children. I'm also a gamer and have been known to swear at other gamers. I really don't want to be called into my boss's office and be told "erm, Colin, did you upset a nine-year old girl last night? Her mother's just phoned and said you told her to fuck off and die and now she's still crying and scared to log into her World of Warcraft account."

Now from my perspective the cocksucker corpse camping me was just an Orc Warrior, how was I to know she was a young child? But that could still end my career.

Now you could say well don't swear at people, don't let your guard down, wear your professional face when you're kicking back zerging Warsong Gulch and so on, act as if each person you meet is your boss. That wouldn't be a lot of fun though, and it certainly wouldn't be the destressing I'm looking for with games.

The next problem is the internet justice system. You are innocent until proven funny.

Once you're proven funny, like Star Wars kid, the meme will never die.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPPj6viIBmU
He had to have therapy after other children uploaded this without his permission, his family took the other children to court and won and the video is still frickin everywhere. If this boy plays WoW he now has to post with his real name. How long before someone outs him as Star Wars kid and he has to go through it all again?

It is a feature of the internet justice system that you never finish serving your time. In the real world after a certain time (in the UK) convictions become "spent". I believe most other countries have similar legal systems for rehabilitating ex-offenders. You don't have to declare that nicked a snickers bar 20 years ago and society no longer brands you a criminal.

Not so on the internet. Embarrassing personal information never dies. Look how easy it was for us to find some of the ancient Serek Dmart shenanigans from 15 years ago.

Another aspect that will impact WoW will be a guild management crisis. There's a correlation between real life responsibility and in-game responsibility.  How many of those teachers, doctors, and lawyers will want to continue being guild officers? So I hope you're willing to step up and recruit on the forums and do the hateful jobs of guild-kicking and loot assignment because white collar workers won't want to do that stuff any more.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: KallDrexx on July 08, 2010, 06:16:33 AM
No, the blogging and f13 wouldn't go on my resume but they would invariably show up in a Google search of my name (along with lots of other boring things) and there's nothing I can do about that.  If my potential employer decides to confuse the two, at that point that'd be both our problems :awesome_for_real:.

Edit: Potential employer, and that's being generous I suppose.

Just FYI my company while it was a small 50 person shop googled people prior to the in person interview.  There were quite a few that we found interesting forum postings (some not even relating to facebook) that pretty much disqualified them pretty quickly.  It's a lot easier to get past any prejudice after an interview than before, but most employers don't wait until after the interview to start forming their opinions.

Meanwhile big companies actually pay firms to do all the research about potential employees.  I've gotten to a job having to sign some form having to explain why they couldn't confirm some aspects of my past (namely a job that was out of state and another job for a company that no longer exists) and it listed jobs that I did not even list on my resume.  Companies get paid a lot of money to do in depth background investigations for potential employees. 



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 08, 2010, 07:17:24 AM
Really now?

To Musashi's point (and tangentially Modern Angel's), it's not like I don't understand that assholes exist and that people can make mortal enemies through the course of their life.  I just don't think the possibility of someone wanting to do me serious, or not-so-serious, harm is cause to transgress against everyone else.  That's going to seem completely bonkers to some, I know.
Having been a guild master for a PA I inherited in SWG I've seen some messed up stuff.  This was one that tried to screen for good people.  It turns out one of our original founders was sexually harassing every player he thought was a real female.  One received threats of bodily harm from 'friends' for bringing to the leadership's attention.  No one had pieced it together because they all thought it was just them and went elsewhere or stopped playing.  Would it have gone further had he access to real names?  We can't know, but should we take that chance when these women were already being emotionally devastated?

As a woman, I've had online suitors I'd rather have not dealt with.  Including ones I told flat out I was not interested.  For no reason more than my character was female and I was helpful and involved in the game's community.  I didn't ever give them my real name for a very specific reason -- I didn't want them finding me in real life.

As someone who has worked closely with the transgender community, I've seen enough problems with identity and harassment to last a lifetime.  Difficulties with name changes ranging from monetary reasons to differing state laws.  Company policies which don't take into account the reality that people's names change.  (Besides transition, just about every married woman in western society, and even one of my close male friends when he and his wife took a new last name.)  Try getting your name changed with an MMO company that has a policy of never doing so.

Such a thing forcefully outs individuals who suffer harassment for just trying to be themselves, risks triggering emotional distress, and one that often turns to games that allow them some protection through anonymity from an existence that shits on them at every turn.  This is a group with massively increased chances for self-harm and being victims of physical violence.  One often ignored by law enforcement, stigmatized by the community at large, and treated as subhuman.  But hey, who cares?  Let's post their name for all to see so some hater can threaten, intimidate, and maybe cause them real harm.

I know real people who have been attacked or are dead for being trans.  It might be a minuscule portion of WoW's population, but they're still human beings.  I know a lot of women harassed just for being women.  They actually are a significant portion of WoW's population.  This only heightens the risk to all of them.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Wolf on July 08, 2010, 07:33:03 AM
Vivendi still owns Activision Blizzard. At some point they are going to have to step in a fix the mess that the Activision part of the holding company has become. Vivendi was very careful to let Blizzard be Blizzard when they were part of Vivendi Games as Vivendi knew Blizzard was the goose laying the golden eggs for them. If it's true that Activision is now mucking with Blizzard Vivendi better put an end to that pronto.


Ditto. If I remember correctly Vivendi owns 51% of the stock in Activision-Blizzard and Kotick is CEO. I don't think they will step in, unless revenues decline considerably, though. One could always hope Mike Morhaime goes to cry to big daddy to fix this :)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: patience on July 08, 2010, 07:53:10 AM
Anyone who thinks this is being done to protect us from the nasty trolls needs to pull their head out of their naive ass.  It has everything to do with Blizzard's recent deal with Facebook.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2010/05/blizzard-and-facebooks-friendly-social-networking-deal-launches-with-starcraft-ii-/1 (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2010/05/blizzard-and-facebooks-friendly-social-networking-deal-launches-with-starcraft-ii-/1)

I wouldn't say that's the only justification. Korea represents a major source of revenue for the starcraft market and while wow wasn't that big in korea that country is a major mmo market and they initiated a law requiring authentication like RealID. Google restricted youtube comments made in that country instead of implementing authentication.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Mosesandstick on July 08, 2010, 07:59:49 AM
AFAIK one of the core tenets of the merger was supposed to be Blizzard's autonomy. If Kotick is telling Blizz what to do that's going to end up being fubar.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 08, 2010, 08:02:11 AM
Unless Blizzard's autonomy begins and ends at what goes inside the game, per a quote above. If Activision has free reign to fuck around with business models and stuff like that there's fuckall Blizzard can do (assuming Blizzard wants to do anything at all) unless Vivendi gets involved. Vivendi's not going to get involved unless there's a big drop in revenue. There won't be a big drop in revenue.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sickrubik on July 08, 2010, 08:09:09 AM
There has been nothing about Activision games including battle.net stuff, so I have a hard time swallowing the idea that it's all Kotick's doing. If they were forcing it, there would be no reason not to also be forcing it in other games and using that as their platform to go against XBox Live, with whom Kotick's always been pissed at because he can't get money from it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 08, 2010, 08:17:58 AM
Oh I don't think this is a Kotick thing at all. I think it's a Kotick STYLE thing and I figure he's been consulted but I agree. Until I see b.net and RealID creep into Activision's entire catalog I'm assuming this is a Blizzard thing.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DLRiley on July 08, 2010, 08:20:37 AM
Really now?

To Musashi's point (and tangentially Modern Angel's), it's not like I don't understand that assholes exist and that people can make mortal enemies through the course of their life.  I just don't think the possibility of someone wanting to do me serious, or not-so-serious, harm is cause to transgress against everyone else.  That's going to seem completely bonkers to some, I know.
Having been a guild master for a PA I inherited in SWG I've seen some messed up stuff.  This was one that tried to screen for good people.  It turns out one of our original founders was sexually harassing every player he thought was a real female.  One received threats of bodily harm from 'friends' for bringing to the leadership's attention.  No one had pieced it together because they all thought it was just them and went elsewhere or stopped playing.  Would it have gone further had he access to real names?  We can't know, but should we take that chance when these women were already being emotionally devastated?

As a woman, I've had online suitors I'd rather have not dealt with.  Including ones I told flat out I was not interested.  For no reason more than my character was female and I was helpful and involved in the game's community.  I didn't ever give them my real name for a very specific reason -- I didn't want them finding me in real life.

As someone who has worked closely with the transgender community, I've seen enough problems with identity and harassment to last a lifetime.  Difficulties with name changes ranging from monetary reasons to differing state laws.  Company policies which don't take into account the reality that people's names change.  (Besides transition, just about every married woman in western society, and even one of my close male friends when he and his wife took a new last name.)  Try getting your name changed with an MMO company that has a policy of never doing so.

Such a thing forcefully outs individuals who suffer harassment for just trying to be themselves, risks triggering emotional distress, and one that often turns to games that allow them some protection through anonymity from an existence that shits on them at every turn.  This is a group with massively increased chances for self-harm and being victims of physical violence.  One often ignored by law enforcement, stigmatized by the community at large, and treated as subhuman.  But hey, who cares?  Let's post their name for all to see so some hater can threaten, intimidate, and maybe cause them real harm.

I know real people who have been attacked or are dead for being trans.  It might be a minuscule portion of WoW's population, but they're still human beings.  I know a lot of women harassed just for being women.  They actually are a significant portion of WoW's population.  This only heightens the risk to all of them.

Well on the positive side at least we would know how many girls are in my non existent wow guild  :awesome_for_real:
"Wanna fuck" javascript programs being written right now; :pedobear: selling them for a $1.95  :drill:

You know bnet could be the beta test for this. I wouldn't be surprised if bnet 2 can be used for console game networking for at least xbox.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 08, 2010, 08:27:26 AM
bnet will not. RealID will creep in and become a steam friends thing for activision games. This I can assure you of.

I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't a Kotick thing, but I can assure you that the API is being left open to other games. Just because it makes no sense to develop such a system for 3 gaming properties.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Wolf on July 08, 2010, 08:30:31 AM
I don't remember where I read that, but there's an activision suit above Mike Morhaim in Activision-Blizzard's structure. Technically outside of Blizzard, but his only concern is what Blizzard does. One of those packaged goods guys, Bobby is so proud of bringing into the gaming industry, I'm guessing.

It just makes so much more sense if someone else is making the calls on all of these (RealID, missing bnet 2.0 functionality, etc). I just don't see how Blizzard can turn from "the good guys" into money grabbing asswipes over the course of a couple of months.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sickrubik on July 08, 2010, 08:30:31 AM
bnet will not. RealID will creep in and become a steam friends thing for activision games. This I can assure you of.

I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't a Kotick thing, but I can assure you that the API is being left open to other games. Just because it makes no sense to develop such a system for 3 gaming properties.

Blizzard has at least one other IP game, so of course it would be open to other games a well. Having the API be left open for other games seems to only be a smart move, even if it is just for Blizzard games. I don't see that as any evidence of creep beyond Blizzard.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Kageru on July 08, 2010, 08:31:23 AM
Already had one guild member say if it gets implemented they'll be canceling. If this information is available from in-game tools (you can sort of opt-out of the forums) I can't say I blame him. I also can't see any advantage to gamers from their implementation. Having a system so you can link your wow user name to your facebook is fine, it's a feature. Making it so you have to leak personal information, given to them for the exclusive purposes of billing, just to play the game is flat out retarded.

I can't tell if it's Blizzard getting fat and stupid from lack of competition, Activision running out of new ways to be evil or some horrific merge of both.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: LK on July 08, 2010, 08:39:03 AM
Hmmm.

Blizzard's not really a gaming company anymore. At least, not primarily. Service company that makes games seems like.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 08, 2010, 08:40:11 AM
Already had one guild member say if it gets implemented they'll be canceling. If this information is available from in-game tools (you can sort of opt-out of the forums) I can't say I blame him. I also can't see any advantage to gamers from their implementation. Having a system so you can link your wow user name to your facebook is fine, it's a feature. Making it so you have to leak personal information, given to them for the exclusive purposes of billing, just to play the game is flat out retarded.

I can't tell if it's Blizzard getting fat and stupid from lack of competition, Activision running out of new ways to be evil or some horrific merge of both.



My old guild already had multiple cancellations, and it hasn't even gone live as a change yet.  As for myself, Catacylsm is out, and so are any future Blizzard titles.  On the plus side, Torchlight is probably going to get a lot of new fans.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 08, 2010, 08:42:36 AM
Dude.  Do you realize how ironic your post is?

Anyway.  It's not really hyperbole.  They're going to sell you shit on Facebook.  Plan on it.

No, I don't.  I mean, I see why you THINK it is.  But it's not.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/963220/dubious.gif)

Quote
Edit:  They've been selling shit on B.net for years.  Note the huge ad banner on top.

Nice.  That banner doesn't have any personal information, and neither does your old handle on B.net.  Facebook does.  It's not simply a matter of not posting on forums.  There's more.  If this works for Blizzard, then what's to stop every swinging dick from using Facebook as a login platform for their games.  Think of the ease at which they'll be able to moderate their forums!  That's not what this is about, guy. 

OH.  But think of how awesome it will be to live in a world where everyone's video game achievements are spammed on their Facebook accounts.  It will force everyone to look at us deviant gamers in a different light when they realize just how many of us there are.  But yea, I can opt out still, I guess.  When I whack a foozle and the Facebook window comes up and asks me if I'd like to share this glorious achievement with everyone I know, I can just click no.  How awesome does that sound?  Come on.

You just killed your 100th skeleton!  Would you like to share this accomplishment with your friends?

"Sorry you guys died there.  Facebook window popped up."


All that shit you just mentioned?  It could happen one day.  But it probably won't. 


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 08, 2010, 08:47:16 AM
Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of hyperbole.  Slippery slope argument is like, the most elemental fucknut argument that everyone learned in freshman debate class.  All anyone ever does is string out the opposing side of the argument they don't like into its most absurdly cruel stretch of the imagination.  

Randomly accusing people of 'slipperly slope argument'  and 'hyperbole' without specifying what is supposedly hyperbole or slippery slope is like, the most elemental forum warrior argument that everyone learned in reading a list of logical fallacies. All anyone ever does is accuse the opposing side of some kind of fallacy without justifying it, then act like they one the argument.

Quote
Of course there will be people who shy away from positive contributions due to privacy concerns.  And of course there will still be plenty of people willing to post class guides and protips.  But the potential for massively undercutting all the rampant and flagrant douchebaggery is staggering.  If you remove all that douchebaggery the forums become vastly more usable for finding news and information.

No one has yet to provide any reason to believe that this change will actually remove douchbaggery from the forums. Some people have an account in another person's name, some used a fake name to register, some will create a fake name, some just don't care. I'm not sure how you expect this to make the forums more useful for finding news, since they sticky any news announcements, and you can go to a blue tracker site if you just want to see Blizzard's posts.

You also haven't provided an explanation of why you think that plenty of people will be willing to post class guides and tips. There are already only a limited number of people writing class guides, and many of them have not been updated in quite some time, so it doesn't sound like there are 'plenty' at the moment even without the changes. Instead of having 'anyone who plays and looks at the forums' giving protips, you reduce the pool to 'anyone who plays and looks at the forums and doesn't mind posting under their real name', which is a lot fewer people. Have you taken my 'post your name on the official forums stating that you don't think releasing names is a problem' challenge yet?

If you burn your house to the ground, the potential for termite damage is much less. It's still not a good plan. Releasing personal information about everyone who plays in order to stop people who might not have entered their real personal information from trolling is not a good plan.

Please asswipe.  Every third post here is slippery slope.  If you honestly believe that having some level of accountability on the forums won't improve the atmosphere then you're fucking delusional.  Blizzard is assuming there will be casualties, that some good posters will no longer do so.  They are also assuming that there will still be dipshits running around.  But it's a pretty safe gamble that the great weight of these two things will pan out the way they intend.  It's just human nature really.

*edit


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 08, 2010, 08:49:35 AM
I honestly believe that it will have an immediate positive effect followed by a long term major negative effect on the forum users. Because, well, giving out personal information to anonymous people on the internet does not end well.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 08, 2010, 08:50:13 AM
Duse.  Dude.  You're wasting your time fighting against evil trolling trolls.  First, this isn't about trolling.  And second, you're trolling right now.  I've come to love that about you.

You're okay with them ignoring pretty blatant security issues because they want to adhere to Facebook's anti-anonymous posture, and not-coincidentally, have boat loads of money shot straight up their asses.  It's not a defend-able position.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 08, 2010, 08:56:48 AM
My understanding is that even if you do post you don't have to import your Facebook friends list or use any of that functionality.  I'm just saying that if it cleans up the boards and makes them civil, then it's genius.  Fuck the fallout.  If it doesn't?  Then obviously the Internet Fuckwad Theory is flawed, human nature is broken beyond repair, and I'm a giant dildo.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: LK on July 08, 2010, 08:57:36 AM
Internet does the predictable: http://asnowstormbyanyothername.blogspot.com/


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 08, 2010, 08:58:25 AM
You are a fucking grade A idiot if you think the forums have anything to do with the real motivations behind any of this.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: AutomaticZen on July 08, 2010, 08:59:26 AM
I bet Bioware is kicking themselves that SWTOR isn't going live anytime soon. 

Bioware: "We're like them, but we don't force you to use your real name!"  MArketing gold.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 08, 2010, 09:01:55 AM
You are a fucking grade A idiot if you think the forums have anything to do with the real motivations behind any of this.

Part of my point is that I don't care the motivation behind it.  If someone's motivation was to take over the world by making Raisinets fall from the sky, I'd feel the same way.  Because Raisinets are awesome.


**By the way, 95% of the people most upset about this are going to quietly buy the game and play it anyway, enjoy themselves thoroughly, and carry on about their lives with zero ill effects.  God forbid they post somewhere else (which they certainly already do).  


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 08, 2010, 09:03:02 AM
You are a fucking grade A idiot if you think the forums have anything to do with the real motivations behind any of this.

Part of my point is that I don't care the motivation behind it.  If someone's motivation was to take over the world by making Raisinets fall from the sky, I'd feel the same way.  Because Raisinets are awesome.

You are a fucking grade A idiot


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 08, 2010, 09:03:40 AM
And you'd still be an idiot eating Raisinets.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 08, 2010, 09:04:30 AM
And you'd still be an idiot eating Raisinets.

What are you trying to say?  That you're a Goobers man?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 08, 2010, 09:05:52 AM
I'm trying to say choke on cocks. You're a solipsist of the worst sort.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: KallDrexx on July 08, 2010, 09:06:42 AM
All that shit you just mentioned?  It could happen one day.  But it probably won't. 

Um aren't PS3 achievements and whatnot already able to be spammed on facebook if the user enables it?  It's not that inconcievable that Blizzard would do this as well.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sickrubik on July 08, 2010, 09:08:27 AM
That's a lot different than it being required. Who cares if they have it if it's an optional service that you can either use or don't use at your discretion?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 08, 2010, 09:10:32 AM
I'm trying to say choke on cocks. You're a solipsist of the worst sort.


lol, I wish.  Listen up terds.  This is a business.  They want to make money.  So all of your conspiracy theories about Blizzard doing this for money?  NO SHIT.  The fact of the matter is, that even if this move made the official forums a damned paradise, you'd still be against it on some sort of political or philosophical ground based on your right to post anonymously and unfettered on Blizzard's official forums.  I mean fuck, some MMOs haven't even had official forums.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 08, 2010, 09:11:23 AM
Thread on the forums is reaching 11k posts in only a couple days/


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 08, 2010, 09:12:16 AM
lol, I wish.  Listen up terds.  This is a business.  They want to make money.  So all of your conspiracy theories about Blizzard doing this for money?  NO SHIT.  The fact of the matter is, that even if this move made the official forums a damned paradise, you'd still be against it on some sort of political or philosophical ground based on your right to post anonymously and unfettered on Blizzard's official forums.  I mean fuck, some MMOs haven't even had official forums.

Yes, its called principled opposition.  The reasons for it have been chronicles pretty thoroughly in this thread.  I guess you've never thought about ethics for more than 3 minutes in your entire life.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 08, 2010, 09:15:17 AM
So this is really a moral crusade that all you guys are on?  It's a God given right to post for free on Blizzard's official forums.  I get it.


 :awesome_for_real:

Just kidding around.  I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.  If the forums still suck when this goes live I'll try to care more.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DLRiley on July 08, 2010, 09:18:53 AM
My understanding is that even if you do post you don't have to import your Facebook friends list or use any of that functionality.  I'm just saying that if it cleans up the boards and makes them civil, then it's genius.  Fuck the fallout.  If it doesn't?  Then obviously the Internet Fuckwad Theory is flawed, human nature is broken beyond repair, and I'm a giant dildo.

How many bags of shitfertilizer  :grin: can I mail to your home address. Just give me your first and last name.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 08, 2010, 09:20:02 AM
So this is really a moral crusade that all you guys are on?  It's a God given right to post for free on Blizzard's official forums.  I get it.


 :awesome_for_real:

Just kidding around.  I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.  If the forums still suck when this goes live I'll try to care more.

If you seriously think thats the long and short of it you are an idiot, as others have already pointed out.  Either that or you're being willfully ignorant.  Either way, I'm done talking to you.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DLRiley on July 08, 2010, 09:21:09 AM
realID for f13 go go go  :drill:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Soulflame on July 08, 2010, 09:23:43 AM
Your blizzard account gets hacked.  Person uses your hacked account to post on forums.

Yep.  No possible issues resulting from your real name used in that situation.

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 08, 2010, 09:25:50 AM
Your blizzard account gets hacked.  Person uses your hacked account to post on forums.

Yep.  No possible issues resulting from your real name used in that situation.

 :why_so_serious:


That's actually the first realistic and valid concern I've heard.  Good point. 


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DLRiley on July 08, 2010, 09:28:00 AM
Oh besides it being very easy to locate your house by typing in your first and last name on google?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 08, 2010, 09:31:44 AM
Or stalkers which many of us or friends have actually dealt with?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 08, 2010, 09:33:21 AM
Or stalkers which many of us or friends have actually dealt with?

You haven't been paying attention, for dusematic, concerns are only legitmate if they seem likely to happen to him, and only if they outway the awesomeness of troll free forums. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 08, 2010, 09:38:23 AM
Or stalkers which many of us or friends have actually dealt with?

You haven't been paying attention, for dusematic, concerns are only legitmate if they seem likely to happen to him, and only if they outway the awesomeness of troll free forums. :awesome_for_real:

That's fair to say.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 08, 2010, 09:42:44 AM
Why would you want a troll free forum?  You wouldn't be allowed to participate.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 08, 2010, 09:43:31 AM
Why would you want a troll free forum?  You wouldn't be allowed to participate.

Genuinely laughed out loud on that one. 


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: fuser on July 08, 2010, 09:47:39 AM
I really don't understand why there's not a pseudonym option.

The real rage from this is its a game people have vested time in and they are shifting to the RealID dragging the users kicking and screaming. The arguments for "well you use your real name for xyz" doesn't serve any purpose. In order to use Facebook per example you know from the initial sign up your real world details are going to be shared. Activision/Blizzard/Vivendi are basically forcing all players to broadcast their user data to world or their partners with no opt out.

Under Canadian PIPEDA law's I wonder how this is going to work. I'm going to file an official request today for information related to my account and petition a request to service without using my real name as its covered by our laws.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pantastic on July 08, 2010, 09:48:12 AM
Please asswipe.  Every third post here is slippery slope.

Just shouting the name of a logical fallacy doesn't show that someone is using that fallacy. BTW, which of the three posts following yours is a slippery slope?

Quote
If you honestly believe that having some level of accountability on the forums won't improve the atmosphere then you're fucking delusional.

I've given reasons for my belief, all you've done is swear and insist that you're right. It's very easy for someone who wants to troll to avoid using their real name (fake name on account, get an account just for trolling, bought/traded an account from someone else years ago), and a lot of trolls simply don't care, while legitimate posters are more likely to have only an account they care about and won't want to pay $15/month just to talk on forums. Which group of people is more likely to have bought their account, used a fake name, have an account under a parent's name, or is willing to spend $15/month on a fresh account just to post - long time legitimate players, or kids who want to cause trouble?

Just the "accountability" you gain by linking game things to real info is something I'd oppose in and of itself. As far as I can tell, it appears to consist either of harassment by other forum posters, or people in non-game contexts responding badly to game related posts. Do you really support accountability through harassment antics? Is there some other form of accountability that I'm missing? Who do you think fears that accountability, thinking people who would provide the good information you're hoping for, or immature people who like to harass people? How does this 'accountability' target the right person when you don't have to present ID to open an account and there's no ID check to be sure of who owns old traded, sold, or stolen accounts?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 08, 2010, 09:51:27 AM
I really don't understand why there's not a pseudonym option.

The real rage from this is its a game people have vested time in and they are shifting to the RealID dragging the users kicking and screaming. The arguments for "well you use your real name for xyz" doesn't serve any purpose. In order to use Facebook per example you know from the initial sign up your real world details are going to be shared. Activision/Blizzard/Vivendi are basically forcing all players to broadcast their user data to world or their partners with no opt out.

Under Canadian PIPEDA law's I wonder how this is going to work. I'm going to file an official request today for information related to my account and petition a request to service without using my real name as its covered by our laws.

This is just for the Starcraft 2 forums if I'm not mistaken.  My understanding from everything they've said, is that you will go in knowing full well what the deal is.  Old forums won't carry over.  So you can choose to participate or not going in.  That said, if you choose not to, then there is not much of a problem unless you just can't get enough of posting on the official forums. 


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rasix on July 08, 2010, 09:53:16 AM
 :facepalm:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 08, 2010, 09:55:54 AM
Would you like to log in to World of Warcraft with Facebook?

Facebook users receive access to the auction house!


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Khaldun on July 08, 2010, 09:59:03 AM
My understanding is that even if you do post you don't have to import your Facebook friends list or use any of that functionality.  I'm just saying that if it cleans up the boards and makes them civil, then it's genius.  Fuck the fallout.  If it doesn't?  Then obviously the Internet Fuckwad Theory is flawed, human nature is broken beyond repair, and I'm a giant dildo.

I'm fascinated that you evidently regard making World of Warcraft's official forums into civil and clean places for polite discourse to be a transcendently valuable objective which outweighs other concerns. Because you have never struck me here as being particularly driven by a need for high signal-to-noise civility in online conversation. How exactly will the cleaning out of the forum cesspits enhance: a) your life; b) your playing of WoW? Do you frequently go to the online forums looking for information only to be disappointed that there is a forty-page thread on whether Sylvanus has sucked Thrall's cock?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 08, 2010, 10:00:13 AM
If they are pulling the poster's name from billing information, is that even legal?  Can you give out a name gathered from a credit card?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: slog on July 08, 2010, 10:04:54 AM
If they are pulling the poster's name from billing information, is that even legal?  Can you give out a name gathered from a credit card?

I was kind of wondering the about this.  I would probably just change the name on my Battle.net account to John Smedly  and not worry about the rest.  If it really became an issue, and I still wanted to play, I would probably buy timecards.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DLRiley on July 08, 2010, 10:07:14 AM
If they are pulling the poster's name from billing information, is that even legal?  Can you give out a name gathered from a credit card?

I was kind of wondering the about this.  I would probably just change the name on my Battle.net account to John Smedly  and not worry about the rest.  If it really became an issue, and I still wanted to play, I would probably buy timecards.

As oppose to not playing.....


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: slog on July 08, 2010, 10:34:31 AM
If they are pulling the poster's name from billing information, is that even legal?  Can you give out a name gathered from a credit card?

I was kind of wondering the about this.  I would probably just change the name on my Battle.net account to John Smedly  and not worry about the rest.  If it really became an issue, and I still wanted to play, I would probably buy timecards.

As oppose to not playing.....

I've filled in so many fake names over the years, what's one more?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DLRiley on July 08, 2010, 10:35:57 AM
If they are pulling the poster's name from billing information, is that even legal?  Can you give out a name gathered from a credit card?

I was kind of wondering the about this.  I would probably just change the name on my Battle.net account to John Smedly  and not worry about the rest.  If it really became an issue, and I still wanted to play, I would probably buy timecards.

As oppose to not playing.....

I've filled in so many fake names over the years, what's one more?

bnet only has my real first name for starcraft and i'm still debating the purchase of it past beta.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: tmp on July 08, 2010, 10:36:38 AM
All that shit you just mentioned?  It could happen one day.  But it probably won't. 

Um aren't PS3 achievements and whatnot already able to be spammed on facebook if the user enables it?  It's not that inconcievable that Blizzard would do this as well.
(http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/687392895_PiWKx-L.jpg)

the whole part where "it's optional, it's different" is changing pretty quick as the companies realize it's extremely cheap way to advertise their games to people who normally wouldn't think about playing games to begin with.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sickrubik on July 08, 2010, 10:39:47 AM
If they are pulling the poster's name from billing information, is that even legal?  Can you give out a name gathered from a credit card?

Yeah, there really isn't anything wrong with it, since you can't store credit card numbers.

Timecards are actually a great thing for people that are worried about such things, as well as a good way to prevent credit card fraud in general.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: slog on July 08, 2010, 10:40:46 AM
If they are pulling the poster's name from billing information, is that even legal?  Can you give out a name gathered from a credit card?

I was kind of wondering the about this.  I would probably just change the name on my Battle.net account to John Smedly  and not worry about the rest.  If it really became an issue, and I still wanted to play, I would probably buy timecards.

As oppose to not playing.....

I've filled in so many fake names over the years, what's one more?

bnet only has my real first name for starcraft and i'm still debating the purchase of it past beta.

Is there something that prevents you from setting up a new gmail account and a new bnet account? (this is a serious question)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DLRiley on July 08, 2010, 10:47:23 AM
no but honestly i do that amount of work to troll forums, not to purchase a video game. removing the impulse buy mechanic from video game purchase is likely result in many people keeping their 50-60 bucks.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 08, 2010, 10:52:24 AM
Internet does the predictable: http://asnowstormbyanyothername.blogspot.com/
And...here...we...go!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ironwood on July 08, 2010, 11:01:22 AM
Aye, just saw that myself.  A winner.

Sigh.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 08, 2010, 11:02:57 AM
This should be interesting...



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Nevermore on July 08, 2010, 11:17:18 AM
If they are pulling the poster's name from billing information, is that even legal?  Can you give out a name gathered from a credit card?

I was kind of wondering the about this.  I would probably just change the name on my Battle.net account to John Smedly  and not worry about the rest.  If it really became an issue, and I still wanted to play, I would probably buy timecards.

You can't change the name on an already established B.net account without faxing them your I.D. proving that's your name.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 08, 2010, 11:18:57 AM
If there's one thing that the internet has taught me it's that it is always a good idea to challenge the depths of peoples trolling ability.  :why_so_serious:

This is proving to be the most amusing thing blizzard may have ever done.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DLRiley on July 08, 2010, 11:20:50 AM
The internet is made for trolling and porn.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 08, 2010, 11:30:51 AM
There's something oddly paternalistic about all this "well we have to protect the women!" business to me. Like "oh they don't know any better and they'll post and put their name out there and get raped, we must protect them by locking them up safely where they can't do damage to themselves by letting men get a look at them!"

I mean I can understand worrying about kids, kids are stupid and not legally entitled to make their own decisions in a lot of contexts, but adults are adults and while they may also be stupid, they are entitled to make their own decisions about whether or not they want to use these particular forums, or facebook, or hop into open vent with people they don't know, no?

I mean yes, I see that can be turned around to "well we're entitled to use this service without posting our real names on their forums, and Blizzard shouldn't make that decision for us", but really that isn't actually true in this country at least, or in South Korea. They may run into trouble in the EU from what I can tell, though.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 08, 2010, 11:33:15 AM
I'd agree if it weren't primarily women doing the complaining. Generally speaking I defer to women when it comes to things like "what's it like to play a video game and have nerds find out you have a vagina?" I have and it's been pretty universal.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 08, 2010, 11:37:14 AM
There's something oddly paternalistic about all this "well we have to protect the women!" business to me. Like "oh they don't know any better and they'll post and put their name out there and get raped, we must protect them by locking them up safely where they can't do damage to themselves by letting men get a look at them!"

I mean I can understand worrying about kids, kids are stupid and not legally entitled to make their own decisions in a lot of contexts, but adults are adults and while they may also be stupid, they are entitled to make their own decisions about whether or not they want to use these particular forums, or facebook, or hop into open vent with people they don't know, no?
So you're essentially saying that any female/LGBT/person with a non-WASP name who posts on the Blizzard forums is asking for it?

I mean yes, I see that can be turned around to "well we're entitled to use this service without posting our real names on their forums, and Blizzard shouldn't make that decision for us", but really that isn't actually true in this country at least, or in South Korea. They may run into trouble in the EU from what I can tell, though.
"May be in trouble" in the context of "This is all very fucking illegal and actually criminal offences, not civil ones", you mean. Announcing that you want to be "Like Facebook but with less privacy" in the same week as when the German Govt. says that it's going to bend Facebook over a table (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8798906.stm) takes a special sort of genius.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 08, 2010, 11:37:33 AM
Every single raiding guild I was in always had the same reaction when a new female recruit spoke up on vent. It was fucking embarassing to be a part of each time and that was even on the tamer side of things.  To say women need to be protected isn't accurate but to say women will be targetted and harassed? That's pretty spot on.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 08, 2010, 11:38:31 AM
There's something oddly paternalistic about all this "well we have to protect the women!" business to me. Like "oh they don't know any better and they'll post and put their name out there and get raped, we must protect them by locking them up safely where they can't do damage to themselves by letting men get a look at them!"


*shrugs* I only know a few women who play WoW, but each of them that has talked about this has said they oppose it.  In addition to their normal apprehension of even doing something like talking on Ventrilo with people they don't know.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 08, 2010, 11:39:27 AM
So you're essentially saying that any female/LGBT/person with a non-WASP name who posts on the Blizzard forums is asking for it?

Yes, clearly that is what I mean.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 08, 2010, 11:40:23 AM
When this hits, will i be able to find out how many of my coworkers are in this shot? (http://www.dragonscales.com/gallery/albums/upload/ac2010group.jpg)  :awesome_for_real:

Also, when you see it....  :grin:



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: slog on July 08, 2010, 11:41:44 AM
If they are pulling the poster's name from billing information, is that even legal?  Can you give out a name gathered from a credit card?

I was kind of wondering the about this.  I would probably just change the name on my Battle.net account to John Smedly  and not worry about the rest.  If it really became an issue, and I still wanted to play, I would probably buy timecards.

You can't change the name on an already established B.net account without faxing them your I.D. proving that's your name.

This is true.  It wouldn't work for existing WoW accounts. I was thinking that ongoing, I would create a new BNET account for D3, another for SC2, etc.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Outlawedprod on July 08, 2010, 11:43:28 AM
There's something oddly paternalistic about all this "well we have to protect the women!" business to me. Like "oh they don't know any better and they'll post and put their name out there and get raped, we must protect them by locking them up safely where they can't do damage to themselves by letting men get a look at them!"

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm101/kaplan23/scared-white-girl-I-found-her-using.jpg)

Now on a more serious note.  The problem isn't REALID comes to WoW.  The problem is REALID comes to Gamers on the Internet. They aren't ready for this let alone the fact that the Internet isn't ready for REAL ID.  I have despised stuff like Facebook.  People don't realize the potential consequences when you are using your real name.  You aren't making a comment in a local newspaper's voice of the people column or something.  It's like you are being broadcast simultaneously on every TV signal on the planet but you don't know if anyone is watching or not.  Your every move will be scrutinized and it will be vigilante justice time once you make a mistake and say something that sends people off whether you really meant how they took it or not.  Or in the case of WoW maybe embarrassingly pwn someone badly who just can't accept that.  There are plenty of bigshot executives, entertainers, and athletes who have expensive PR machines behind them.  And guess what they aren't ALL stupid but many of them have been dragged straight down into PR hell due to some offhand remark they said.

E-mail is easy enough for someone to screw up let alone all these other online services
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/04/hls-3ls-racist-email-goes-national/


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 08, 2010, 11:46:22 AM
There's something oddly paternalistic about all this "well we have to protect the women!" business to me. Like "oh they don't know any better and they'll post and put their name out there and get raped, we must protect them by locking them up safely where they can't do damage to themselves by letting men get a look at them!"


*shrugs* I only know a few women who play WoW, but each of them that has talked about this has said they oppose it.  In addition to their normal apprehension of even doing something like talking on Ventrilo with people they don't know.

I don't think I know anyone of any gender who especially likes it, but my point is the sort of scary talk about this sounds pretty similar to the scary talk that has been used over the years to keep women from doing all sorts of 'unsafe' things over the years, like getting a job, or being alone with a man they're not related to, or going out dancing, etc.

I mean yes I know it doesn't map perfectly to this exact situation, but I feel like there's a strong undercurrent here of "we shouldn't let these crazy women put their pictures on Facebook, don't they know it isn't safe!" that I find kind of disturbing.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 08, 2010, 11:55:48 AM
This is one of those cases where someone has to get murdered, or Blizzard loses 30% of their customer base before anything will be done about it. If neither of those happens, the plan will flourish and we privacy beholden folks will crawl away to our cabins in the woods to polish our guns for the coming New World Order.

However, I know which one of the two is a lot more likely. I can assure you there's more than one psychopath in every 12,000,000 people. Better yet, I want to be the first plaintiff's lawyer to use it as a quick way to some deep pockets.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Righ on July 08, 2010, 11:56:59 AM
I just find the practices unacceptable, whether I can work around them or not. I cancelled, uninstalled and told them why.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 08, 2010, 12:00:41 PM
I just find the practices unacceptable, whether I can work around them or not. I cancelled, uninstalled and told them why.

This does seem to be the sensible course of action for anyone who is concerned that the slippery slope will take them any farther.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 08, 2010, 12:01:03 PM
There's something oddly paternalistic about all this "well we have to protect the women!" business to me. Like "oh they don't know any better and they'll post and put their name out there and get raped, we must protect them by locking them up safely where they can't do damage to themselves by letting men get a look at them!"


*shrugs* I only know a few women who play WoW, but each of them that has talked about this has said they oppose it.  In addition to their normal apprehension of even doing something like talking on Ventrilo with people they don't know.

I don't think I know anyone of any gender who especially likes it, but my point is the sort of scary talk about this sounds pretty similar to the scary talk that has been used over the years to keep women from doing all sorts of 'unsafe' things over the years, like getting a job, or being alone with a man they're not related to, or going out dancing, etc.

I mean yes I know it doesn't map perfectly to this exact situation, but I feel like there's a strong undercurrent here of "we shouldn't let these crazy women put their pictures on Facebook, don't they know it isn't safe!" that I find kind of disturbing.

I'm really not getting that vibe from this, I dunno.  It seems more like "Hey, your identity being available easily in WoW seems like a bad idea."  "Yeah, here are some examples where it has already been a problem when its happened" *queue stories which seem to disproportionally involve women getting harassed*


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 08, 2010, 12:03:16 PM
I could be reading more into it than is there, certainly.

On the other hand the very existence of the above blatantly racist 'scare' image sort of makes me feel like maybe I'm not.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ironwood on July 08, 2010, 12:09:40 PM
I just find the practices unacceptable, whether I can work around them or not. I cancelled, uninstalled and told them why.

Should everything proceed as planned, the wife and I will be doing the same.

I still reckon there's a little time for them to be talked out of it though.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 08, 2010, 12:12:02 PM
blatantly racist 'scare' image

Oh come on, I'd suggest a couple of people need to chill out a little bit.  This is a really stupid move on Blizzard's part but there's still time for them to back down and if not, there's always the option of not posting on their new forums or even cancelling.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 08, 2010, 12:15:30 PM
I don't want to derail this any more into Politics than it already is, but that picture is very uh, 'charged' shall we say, to American eyes. The whole black man/white woman thing has a long, storied history of being used as a scare tactic here.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 08, 2010, 12:19:48 PM
I don't want to derail this any more into Politics than it already is, but that picture is very uh, 'charged' shall we say, to American eyes. The whole black man/white woman thing has a long, storied history of being used as a scare tactic here.

This is true.

However, I, and I know this isn't your intention, am just hesitant to risk writing off valid concern because some people are being sexist or racist about it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sickrubik on July 08, 2010, 12:21:36 PM
No one is trying to write off valid concern. It also does not mean you can't point and say "knock that shit off too" while the discussion is going on.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 08, 2010, 12:30:31 PM
I don't want to derail this any more into Politics than it already is, but that picture is very uh, 'charged' shall we say, to American eyes. The whole black man/white woman thing has a long, storied history of being used as a scare tactic here.
Of course, if they were both anonymous it'd be a non-issue anyway.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Khaldun on July 08, 2010, 12:37:17 PM
Look, just about every time I can think of when a company has said "Don't worry, this is just a small change to our privacy policy, we would never do all that horrible stuff the panicky people are talking about", it hasn't just been a hypothetical distance between that moment and something like, "Well, yes, we did sell your personal information to a huge variety of third parties without asking you about it, you agreed to that back when you gave us the information in the first place". This is why I don't do customer loyalty cards anywhere unless it's the kind where they don't need any information about you at all (like a coffee card that they stamp every time you buy a latte or whatever). A company that is willing to rethink its privacy policy because it sees a new opportunity for monetizing information is a company that misunderstands what privacy is. Privacy is a social contract, it's a basic establishing condition of a community. When a company like Blizzard that benefits from building up a particular community decides to unilaterally alter the basic infrastructure of the community built around their product, they are telling you quite forcefully that they are not trustworthy stewards, and that whatever they promise you today about the things that they will never, ever do with the information they now have, they're certainly lying.

Companies like Yelp and Facebook are nothing without the content that users provide them. When they forget that they're the beneficiaries of free labor and try to use what's been given to them for purposes that most of the people giving it would never have agreed to or endorsed, they foul their own nest badly. What companies like Yelp, Facebook and Blizzard are now trying to do is so thoroughly block all the exits from digital culture that the only way out of the maze is to make like Ted Kacynski and go live in a shack in the woods somewhere. Digital culture and new media are my cultural life at this point: they're integral to my work, my leisure, and my social existence. I don't want to opt out of them as a whole, and couldn't even if I did want to. But much of what's been best about digital work and digital fun hangs in the balance of these kinds of moves by various companies. If we accept those moves on the grounds that what the heck, it's not so bad, I fucking guarantee you that the next move will be a worse one in some crucial way and so on down the line, as the frog boils slowly to death.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 08, 2010, 12:44:53 PM
Oh hey, speaking of. Apparently Blizzard changed their privacy policy in the not too distant past from "We will never pass on customer details" to, well...

Quote
As with any business, your personal information is also an asset of Blizzard and will become part of our normal business records. As such, we may also disclose your personal information to a third party if we decide to sell a line of business to that third party, so you can continue to receive service and information in connection with that line of business with as little disruption as possible. Similarly, in the event of a merger, acquisition, reorganization, bankruptcy, or other similar event, your personal information may be transferred to Blizzard 's successor or assign.
Remember that Blizzard is now partnered with Facebook.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 08, 2010, 12:48:33 PM
Oh hey, speaking of. Apparently Blizzard changed their privacy policy in the not too distant past from "We will never pass on customer details" to, well...

Quote
As with any business, your personal information is also an asset of Blizzard and will become part of our normal business records. As such, we may also disclose your personal information to a third party if we decide to sell a line of business to that third party, so you can continue to receive service and information in connection with that line of business with as little disruption as possible. Similarly, in the event of a merger, acquisition, reorganization, bankruptcy, or other similar event, your personal information may be transferred to Blizzard 's successor or assign.
Remember that Blizzard is now partnered with Facebook.

Do you have a link to that?  Its not that I don't believe you, but I'd like to post it somewhere else.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 08, 2010, 12:49:53 PM
After doing a little reading between the lines on Wryxian's later posts in this...

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/13816838128/battle-net-update-upcoming-forum-changes/

...I get the impression that the CM team is definitely not happy about this, as has been widely rumored.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 08, 2010, 12:51:23 PM
So you're essentially saying that any female/LGBT/person with a non-WASP name who posts on the Blizzard forums is asking for it?

Yes, clearly that is what I mean.  :oh_i_see:

lol


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 08, 2010, 12:53:13 PM
Oh hey, speaking of. Apparently Blizzard changed their privacy policy in the not too distant past from "We will never pass on customer details" to, well...

Quote
As with any business, your personal information is also an asset of Blizzard and will become part of our normal business records. As such, we may also disclose your personal information to a third party if we decide to sell a line of business to that third party, so you can continue to receive service and information in connection with that line of business with as little disruption as possible. Similarly, in the event of a merger, acquisition, reorganization, bankruptcy, or other similar event, your personal information may be transferred to Blizzard 's successor or assign.
Remember that Blizzard is now partnered with Facebook.

Do you have a link to that?  Its not that I don't believe you, but I'd like to post it somewhere else.
Sure: http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/privacy.html#h3l5


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 08, 2010, 12:56:10 PM
Fuck it, I just cancelled my account and told them specifically it was over their RealID decision.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 08, 2010, 12:56:56 PM
I don't want to derail this any more into Politics than it already is, but that picture is very uh, 'charged' shall we say, to American eyes. The whole black man/white woman thing has a long, storied history of being used as a scare tactic here.

I said the same thing when I first saw it. Except the American eyes bit, since I am American. So now I just change my opinion of people who go THIS IS HILARIOUS ever so slightly and go on my merry way.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Outlawedprod on July 08, 2010, 01:05:46 PM
It would be a lot easier for this guy to relieve his stress if Eve used REALID =p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns9oAGnK9CU


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: tmp on July 08, 2010, 01:10:12 PM
There's something oddly paternalistic about all this "well we have to protect the women!" business to me. Like "oh they don't know any better and they'll post and put their name out there and get raped, we must protect them by locking them up safely where they can't do damage to themselves by letting men get a look at them!"
Granted it can be just my bad memory but i was under impression this particular angle of "freaks will have field day with knowing which taurens really have vaginas" gets pointed out by women. I.e. not as much a paternalistic thing but simple and understandable concern of people looking after themselves, and based on first-hand experience for the most part.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 08, 2010, 01:15:15 PM
THIS IS HILARIOUS

If that's aimed at me, I was honestly confused but have accepted Ingmar's explanation, I forget this is mostly an American forum sometimes.  Skin colour was pretty far down the list of things I first noticed upon seeing that picture, let's try to avoid a nasty derail.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Nevermore on July 08, 2010, 01:18:11 PM
There's something oddly paternalistic about all this "well we have to protect the women!" business to me. Like "oh they don't know any better and they'll post and put their name out there and get raped, we must protect them by locking them up safely where they can't do damage to themselves by letting men get a look at them!"
Granted it can be just my bad memory but i was under impression this particular angle of "freaks will have field day with knowing which taurens really have vaginas" gets pointed out by women. I.e. not as much a paternalistic thing but simple and understandable concern of people looking after themselves, and based on first-hand experience for the most part.

Yes.  And I think Ingmar is pretty far offbase in this case.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pantastic on July 08, 2010, 01:19:00 PM
Remember that Blizzard is now partnered with Facebook.

I don't see what the problem is with that policy, or how their partnership with Facebook affects it. The bit you quoted just says that if they sell off a game or all of Blizzard, they'll pass the account information on with it, and that if they merge again or go out of business then whoever they merge into or takes over their business will get their business records. Do you really think that if Vivendi decides to kill Blizzard as a seperate entity, they would destroy all of the account records? That's pretty standard stuff, it's probably illegal to delete business records during a bankruptcy, and nothing in that section other than real id is unexpected at all (obviously they're going to provide infromation if subpoenaed)

The part they'll use with facebook is below, and that's worrying to me now that we've seen how cautious they are with personal information.

Quote
Blizzard may enhance or merge the personal information collected at a Blizzard site with data from third parties. Blizzard may also provide your personal information to other companies or organizations that offer products or services that may be of interest to you. In such cases, we will notify you that the information will be shared and provide you with an opportunity to opt-out.

It's also interesting that:

Quote
How secure is my personal information?

Blizzard has taken steps to assure that all information collected will remain secure and in its original form, i.e. free from any alteration. As such, access to all personal information is strictly controlled. When credit card information is transmitted, for example, we use industry standard, SSL (secure sockets layer) encryption. In addition, we will take reasonable steps to assure that third parties to whom we transfer any data will provide sufficient protection of personal information.

Is violated by the current RealID setup - personal informationis transferred to third parties with no steps taken to assure that they provide any protection. They provide the information to any friend of a realid friend with no investigation of that person, and any addon can get your name and send it to arbitrary people if you haven't opted out of RealID entirely. I count what an add-on does as a transfer from Blizzard, since the addon doesn't do anything itself, it runs entirely inside of WOW.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 08, 2010, 01:26:43 PM
I don't think I know anyone of any gender who especially likes it, but my point is the sort of scary talk about this sounds pretty similar to the scary talk that has been used over the years to keep women from doing all sorts of 'unsafe' things over the years, like getting a job, or being alone with a man they're not related to, or going out dancing, etc.
If they want to make an opt-in system or a single, unchanging user name like every other forum in existence, I have no problem with it.  It's the default being to show the real name and how it's being tied into every identifier imaginable.

As I said, I've seen it happen too many times.  Asking to let us make our own choices about whom to give our name to isn't being protective so much as saying that's not their right or responsibility.  Unfortunately simply asking for this respect isn't sufficient.  We have to explain exactly why by giving real scenarios that have happened, and since those apparently aren't sufficient, we have to give worse ones.  And I'd rather use past examples as a preventative than wait for new ones to crop up.

If that makes me 'paternally' protective, so be it.  I'd really rather not spend any more all-nighters comforting someone again.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 08, 2010, 01:31:51 PM
Asking to let us make our own choices about whom to give our name to isn't being protective so much as saying that's not their right or responsibility.

I'm picking out the one sentence that I think highlights the issue here; ultimately you are still the one making the choice about whether other people can see your name, even with the proposed changes. Obviously that could change if they alter things further, but I think everyone can probably make their own decision about exactly when it has gone too far - and of course it is obviously fine if this is that point for you.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pantastic on July 08, 2010, 01:36:17 PM
I don't think I know anyone of any gender who especially likes it, but my point is the sort of scary talk about this sounds pretty similar to the scary talk that has been used over the years to keep women from doing all sorts of 'unsafe' things over the years, like getting a job, or being alone with a man they're not related to, or going out dancing, etc.

No one is arguing that women should not be allowed to provide their name, they're objecting to forcing people to provide their name, and pointing out that it's a bigger problem for women than for men. Tacking real life info into a game with tons of nerdrage and obsessives with lots of time on their hands is not a good idea for anyone, even though most people will be fine, but it will disproportionately affect women and so lots of examples involve women.

I don't recommend that anyone stroll naked through dark alleys in the bad part of town. But it's way more dangerous for a woman to do so than a man - the woman is pretty likely to get raped, while people are a bit likely to think the man is a crazy person and stay away from him. If I was discussing a game that required you to stroll naked through dark alleys and why it's a bad idea, most of my examples of bad things happening would probably be from women, but that doesn't mean that 'don't walk naked through dark alleys' is sexist advice.

Quote
I mean yes I know it doesn't map perfectly to this exact situation, but I feel like there's a strong undercurrent here of "we shouldn't let these crazy women put their pictures on Facebook, don't they know it isn't safe!" that I find kind of disturbing.

There's a big difference between "we shouldn't let these crazy women..." and "we shouldn't force anyone to do this, and it affects women more...".


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 08, 2010, 01:41:16 PM
Perhaps I should clarify somewhat, also: I do see a difference between a woman posting "hey, this could affect me personally in a direct way" and a dude wading into the thread saying "we must protect the womenfolk". It is more that second thing that I was getting at.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 08, 2010, 01:44:17 PM
Perhaps I should clarify somewhat, also: I do see a difference between a woman posting "hey, this could affect me personally in a direct way" and a dude wading into the thread saying "we must protect the womenfolk". It is more that second thing that I was getting at.

Has there really been that much of the second?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 08, 2010, 01:47:25 PM
There's been some, but yeah it is something I see elsewhere a bunch. I guess its just that here happens to be where I'm actually participating in the discussion about it. Also somehow I seem to have landed in the devil's advocate seat in this discussion so I'm just kind of going with it.  :-P


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Minvaren on July 08, 2010, 01:47:58 PM
Canceled last night, saying I didn't like some of the recent battle.net/Cataclysm changes (but probably should have added Facebook in there too to be explicit).


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Vision on July 08, 2010, 01:49:20 PM
So is problem here that the personal info collected by Blizz on each player is going to be used in a malicious way? IE Blizzard either uses or forces players to reveal information that would be potetially harmful?

Is the problem that this is most likely an implementation spurned on by activision?

Or is it that blizzard now holds interest in facebook, and could potentially exploit player information in conjunction with facebook?

Obviously I think using real names on the wow forums is a bad idea. But I still have no idea what the REAL issue is? I don't say that in defense of RealID. I'll be canceling my battle.net account regardless, but is everyone pissed off because they feel this is a strike against being anonymous on the internet? Or because it is a push from Blizzard to make money? And if so. how?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fordel on July 08, 2010, 01:50:08 PM
There's been some, but yeah it is something I see elsewhere a bunch. I guess its just that here happens to be where I'm actually participating in the discussion about it. Also somehow I seem to have landed in the devil's advocate seat in this discussion so I'm just kind of going with it.  :-P


You, argue for the sake of it, I would have never guessed such a thing!  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 08, 2010, 01:50:53 PM
It's less "must protect womenfolk" as much as "hey, very recent history says this will probably lead to X"

If they were trying to add something extra to help protect against things that are pretty obviously a problem, woo! Let's make an experiment of it!

But all they're doing is making the information even more accessible and expecting it to be totally different this time. Really, I'm not as worried about kids or adults. I'm worried more about the 16-22ish pack of women who are in that age range when attention from random guys you don't know seems kinda cool, and are prone to posting entirely too much personal information about themselves online. You know, the invulnerable "oh, bad things won't happen to ME" phase.

Those (men and women) are the people who are still going to post on the forums. And the creepy people aren't going to be posting or trolling. They're just going to be lurking where their personal information is safely hidden, but everyone else's is exposed.

This just screams bad fucking idea on every level.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Khaldun on July 08, 2010, 01:54:34 PM
Well, in some cases, the dudes are trying to respect the views of many women players that they know and to amplify them however possible. You know, like people do when they're trying to make common cause. Am I supposed to restrict myself when I share the opinions of other people to endorsing only those views which come from middle-aged professional straight white guys with a postgraduate education?

Anyway, one thing that's interesting in Wryxian's replies in that linked thread is again the repetition of the idea that the forums need to be a better vehicle for transmitting information to WoW players. To which I again reply: and what kind of information is desired by those players which is not already available via: articles on the main WoW pages, stickied Blue posts, or via third-party forums like Elitist Jerks, Wowhead and Wowwiki? This isn't just a question for the Blues, it's a question for people here and anywhere else who say "Oh joy! At last I shall be able to look at the official forums and get all the information I desire cleanly and clearly, without any trollage or noise!" What is the information that you presently feel you do not have that you expect to have in a clean forum, and why is that important to you?

The thing is, official forums for MMOs are NOT primarily information sources. That's not what they're for, and not why they're needed. What they are is a communication channel between players which helps them to create some sense of a larger community and a communication channel between players and developers which functions as chaotically and inconsistently as polls, lobbyists, newspaper editorials, protests, and so on serve as a communication channel between elected representatives and citizens in a democracy. Official forums are messy in both respects because the communities they correspond to are messy and because there are a great many different factions with different interests within those communities, many of whom benefit by creating a lot of noise rather than signal.

This is no different than any other forum or venue for communicating online: they're all community making. Sometimes weakly or pathetically so, sometimes really productively so. But they're not for information. Information is still best communicated the old fashioned way, from one-to-many.

Blizz either knows this and the whole point of this is not to improve the informational quality of the forums but to reduce the labor load of moderation and to move their whole product towards social networking (without understanding social networking). Or they don't know it and they're being stupid. People who say they want the forums to be more informational usually mean instead, "I hate most of the fuckers that post there and want them to go die in a fire".


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 08, 2010, 01:56:28 PM
Fuck it, I just cancelled my account and told them specifically it was over their RealID decision.

Is there any way to get them to delete the account permanently? At this point, I'm starting to question whether I want Blizzard and Activision access to my personal information at all/


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 08, 2010, 01:57:44 PM
If I had to guess the sort of information exchange they want is between players. In theory it would be "noob posts question and gets an answer and the trolls are discouraged from flaming his gear or posting L2P nonsense because they're no longer anonymous."

I'm not sure if that will or won't work out in practice (I probably lean to won't, but you never know), but I'm pretty sure that's what they're talking about in theory at least.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 08, 2010, 02:01:04 PM
If I had to guess the sort of information exchange they want is between players. In theory it would be "noob posts question and gets an answer and the trolls are discouraged from flaming his gear or posting L2P nonsense because they're no longer anonymous."

I'm not sure if that will or won't work out in practice (I probably lean to won't, but you never know), but I'm pretty sure that's what they're talking about in theory at least.

You could do that by throwing a bit more brutal moderation at the issue, too. Just eat a temp ban for trolling. or for more laughs, a "troll" debuff on all your characters that essentially gives you rez sick for 8 hours of in game time per offence.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 08, 2010, 02:07:22 PM
Fuck it, I just cancelled my account and told them specifically it was over their RealID decision.

Is there any way to get them to delete the account permanently? At this point, I'm starting to question whether I want Blizzard and Activision access to my personal information at all/

I don't think so, although you could just change your accessible information to something else nonsensical when you quit.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 08, 2010, 02:13:48 PM
Fuck it, I just cancelled my account and told them specifically it was over their RealID decision.
Now call your bank and get them to do a chargeback for any time left to run on your sub. Accounts departments love dealing with chargebacks.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rendakor on July 08, 2010, 02:16:22 PM
You can't just change the name on the account without faxing in an ID.

In response to Khaldun's question, I think Blizzard wants you to get ALL of your info on the official forums, instead of EJ, wowhead, mmo-champ, etc. Personally, I don't think the benefit outweighs the cost.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 08, 2010, 02:28:17 PM
Fuck it, I just cancelled my account and told them specifically it was over their RealID decision.
Now call your bank and get them to do a chargeback for any time left to run on your sub. Accounts departments love dealing with chargebacks.

It's not worth the month. I'll run out time until August, finish selling off shit I won't need, and then just ice the account until the policy gets more defined/changed. If they release the expansion with more options to get out of the RealID, and/or don't have it affect anything I do in my gameplay or show up anywhere I don't want it to, then I'll reconsider.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 08, 2010, 02:32:31 PM
Let me be a little less circumspect: Chargebacks are a minor hassle to arrange with a bank for the customer. They are fucking annoying as hell for the company that the chargeback is being applied to - not only is it extra work to process them that probably wasn't planned for, but it also fucks with their budgeting. That $15 they were expecting just became $6.

e: There was a picture here. It's gone now.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Khaldun on July 08, 2010, 02:37:29 PM
See, the thing is, why does Blizzard care if you get information from Elitist Jerks or WoWWiki? It's not like there is any way for Blizzard to further monetize getting information about game systems within their own forums. Thottbot and all its descendents came into being because extra information was necessary for playing the game, or at least vastly eased the process of playing it. Everyone who ever asked where Mankrik's wife is the simplest example of that, but more to the point, most of the game's systems, even now with huge simplifications and streamlining, are not self-explanatory.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pantastic on July 08, 2010, 02:43:39 PM
Those (men and women) are the people who are still going to post on the forums. And the creepy people aren't going to be posting or trolling. They're just going to be lurking where their personal information is safely hidden, but everyone else's is exposed.

Why will they just be lurking? Lots of people have traded or stolen accounts, and creepy types have spent way more on tracking someone down than the $15/month needed to keep an account in a fake name open. The only accountability is for people who used their real name setting up the account, they're not actually verifying names before attaching them to accounts.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: waffel on July 08, 2010, 02:44:46 PM
Who would have thought the first serious WoW killer wasn't another game.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sjofn on July 08, 2010, 03:09:17 PM
Really, I'm not as worried about kids or adults. I'm worried more about the 16-22ish pack of women who are in that age range when attention from random guys you don't know seems kinda cool, and are prone to posting entirely too much personal information about themselves online. You know, the invulnerable "oh, bad things won't happen to ME" phase.

OK see that? That's what Ingmar was talking about. 16-22ish packs of women are still kids or adults, just like the 16-22ish packs of men who also post stupid shit without a thought in their heads as to what might happen with that information, who are less likely to get stalked and raped but probably a lot more likely to get stalked and the fuck beaten out of them, to say nothing of the "future employers" issue for both men and women. The young ladies don't need you to ride in on your horse to protect them from the Terrible Internet. They know. Every woman in the history of ever knows that if they don't follow the current How Not to Get Raped and/or Murdered rules exactly and at all times, if they get raped it will be at least partly blamed on them. But since following those rules and still living your goddamn life are incompatible a lot of the time, we all break them from time to time and then hope that it doesn't rape us in the ass later.

Basically, stick to "great, another area where women will be punished more than men for participating," rather than "oh god women are naive and possibly stupid!"

THAT SAID, by and large I think the conversation has been "man, sorry ladies" and "man, sucks to be us" on the subject of women and the RealID, rather than "women are derpy and need protection" here.  :heart:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fordel on July 08, 2010, 03:10:38 PM
This is why Sheep is scared of you Sjofn.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 08, 2010, 03:10:59 PM
Who would have thought the first serious WoW killer wasn't another game.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. For all the outcry three quarters of those people aren't going to unsub. Too addicted.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 08, 2010, 03:11:09 PM
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25968746635

There isn't a  :awesome_for_real: big enough.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 08, 2010, 03:12:22 PM
derpy

I like this word.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sjofn on July 08, 2010, 03:12:31 PM
This is why Sheep is scared of you Sjofn.

I know, I am terrible to behold. :(


Thanks!


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 08, 2010, 03:19:01 PM
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25968746635

There isn't a  :awesome_for_real: big enough.

Post now deleted, but for posterity it was someone posting a screenshot allegedly showing that GearScore now shows people's RealIDs. May or may not have been a shop, don't know.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: dusematic on July 08, 2010, 03:19:36 PM
See, the thing is, why does Blizzard care if you get information from Elitist Jerks or WoWWiki? It's not like there is any way for Blizzard to further monetize getting information about game systems within their own forums. Thottbot and all its descendents came into being because extra information was necessary for playing the game, or at least vastly eased the process of playing it. Everyone who ever asked where Mankrik's wife is the simplest example of that, but more to the point, most of the game's systems, even now with huge simplifications and streamlining, are not self-explanatory.

They're trying to create a community.  Sort of like Steam, where B.Net is the hub for all of your gaming needs.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DayDream on July 08, 2010, 03:20:26 PM
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25968746635

There isn't a  :awesome_for_real: big enough.

Already deleted.  Care to tl:dr?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 08, 2010, 03:25:32 PM
The beta version of Gearscore apparently also shares RealID names - no friending required.
(http://i29.tinypic.com/14dd0jp.jpg)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 08, 2010, 03:29:43 PM
Really, I'm not as worried about kids or adults. I'm worried more about the 16-22ish pack of women who are in that age range when attention from random guys you don't know seems kinda cool, and are prone to posting entirely too much personal information about themselves online. You know, the invulnerable "oh, bad things won't happen to ME" phase.

OK see that? That's what Ingmar was talking about. 16-22ish packs of women are still kids or adults, just like the 16-22ish packs of men who also post stupid shit without a thought in their heads as to what might happen with that information, who are less likely to get stalked and raped but probably a lot more likely to get stalked and the fuck beaten out of them, to say nothing of the "future employers" issue for both men and women. The young ladies don't need you to ride in on your horse to protect them from the Terrible Internet. They know. Every woman in the history of ever knows that if they don't follow the current How Not to Get Raped and/or Murdered rules exactly and at all times, if they get raped it will be at least partly blamed on them. But since following those rules and still living your goddamn life are incompatible a lot of the time, we all break them from time to time and then hope that it doesn't rape us in the ass later.

Basically, stick to "great, another area where women will be punished more than men for participating," rather than "oh god women are naive and possibly stupid!"

THAT SAID, by and large I think the conversation has been "man, sorry ladies" and "man, sucks to be us" on the subject of women and the RealID, rather than "women are derpy and need protection" here.  :heart:

Actually, I think everyone in the 16-22 bracket is stupid. I just think that gaming is far more hostile to women than men (partially due to social issues, partially due to the unbalanced participation ratio), so while the guys will wind up with the same shit they have now with facebook: possible dates or employers seeing shit they posted online and going Hey Look, A Douchebag! The women will deal with an entirely extra set of bullshit on top of it.

This isn't "women are the stupids! Lol!" It's closer to "seriously, dudes are fucking assholes", and at least for the young ladies I've known (and the dudes), they don't "know" until something has happened they can relate to. That's the textbook age wherein you make stupid obvious mistakes in hindsight because you had no unescorted social exploration to be able to make said mistakes. I just find it far more likely for women to wind up sexually assaulted than men in said situations.

The primary issues with The Internet meets Social Imbalances are fraud and harassing women. Sad reality of The Internets. That's not a "women shouldn't play, get out of our treehouse" statement, it's a "shit, this sucks, and we're working on it, but this here? This action? This is going to end Badly."

But I stand by 16-22 right now is the age where you don't need protection, but you could probably use a little guidance on the "how not to fuck up my life long term" front when you veer that way. Making mistakes is healthy. Making permanent ones can be crippling.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lum on July 08, 2010, 03:31:37 PM
(http://brokentoys.org/images/upshot_NWi6DpOZ.png)

I didn't take the original, so no idea if it's real or a shop.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 08, 2010, 03:32:11 PM
See, the thing is, why does Blizzard care if you get information from Elitist Jerks or WoWWiki? It's not like there is any way for Blizzard to further monetize getting information about game systems within their own forums. Thottbot and all its descendents came into being because extra information was necessary for playing the game, or at least vastly eased the process of playing it. Everyone who ever asked where Mankrik's wife is the simplest example of that, but more to the point, most of the game's systems, even now with huge simplifications and streamlining, are not self-explanatory.

They're trying to create a community.  Sort of like Steam, where B.Net is the hub for all of your gaming needs.

Only less like Steam, and more like Soviet Russia.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Vision on July 08, 2010, 03:36:16 PM
Maybe I can just give the Arizona police officer my WoW account info instead of a birth certificate next time they pull me over and Blizzard can verify my social security number while automatically updating my FB status to "Incarcerated by State GM."


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ginaz on July 08, 2010, 03:43:31 PM
See, the thing is, why does Blizzard care if you get information from Elitist Jerks or WoWWiki? It's not like there is any way for Blizzard to further monetize getting information about game systems within their own forums. Thottbot and all its descendents came into being because extra information was necessary for playing the game, or at least vastly eased the process of playing it. Everyone who ever asked where Mankrik's wife is the simplest example of that, but more to the point, most of the game's systems, even now with huge simplifications and streamlining, are not self-explanatory.

They're trying to create a community.  Sort of like Steam, where B.Net is the hub for all of your gaming needs.

Steam doesn't force me to give my real name to anyone, anywhere at anytime.  Big difference.  Thanks for failing again.

Point is, I don't know you or anyone else I've gamed with over the years well enough that I'd be willing to give you any personal information about myself.  The benefits of a troll/flame free forum experience are far outweighed by the possible security and privacy issues this brings up. 

But hey!  It doesn't effect you so fuck the rest of us, right? 

Mind telling me what your real name is so you and I can become "friends"?  Even if you don't want to.  Oh yes, we will be friends.  Oh yes.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on July 08, 2010, 04:00:42 PM
I'm guessing that Gearscore is sharing your info rather than acquiring it via API calls.

Also, the "big brother Pardo is watching me with his pants down" angst is a little much.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Draegan on July 08, 2010, 04:06:00 PM
nm
Should of scrolled down more to read.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: waffel on July 08, 2010, 04:07:42 PM
Quote from: from WoW forum
"Your real name showing up on the forums cannot have any possible ramifications" is stated with one breath followed by "your real name on your post means you'll not troll anymore".

How can both of these concepts exist in the same argument?

I'd too like this explained by Blizzard.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Merusk on July 08, 2010, 04:14:03 PM
Protip:  Dusematic's sole purpose here is to troll.  Don't feed him.

Fuck it, I just cancelled my account and told them specifically it was over their RealID decision.

Is there any way to get them to delete the account permanently? At this point, I'm starting to question whether I want Blizzard and Activision access to my personal information at all/

Just did so as well for both my wife and my own accounts.  I do not believe there is a way to get them to permanently delete it, though, Ratman.  What I did instead was to edit my shipping address and phone # to something fake (all 5's works) and manually delete my cc/ Billing info.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: patience on July 08, 2010, 04:18:38 PM
There's something oddly paternalistic about all this "well we have to protect the women!" business to me. Like "oh they don't know any better and they'll post and put their name out there and get raped, we must protect them by locking them up safely where they can't do damage to themselves by letting men get a look at them!"

No point in determining how paternalistic it is when women in here and other forums are expressing serious discomfort over this announcement for potential stalkers. I've only met one woman who was proud of having men stalk her. Anyway please don't ignore the fact this can negatively effect men too.

Quote
I mean I can understand worrying about kids, kids are stupid and not legally entitled to make their own decisions in a lot of contexts, but adults are adults and while they may also be stupid, they are entitled to make their own decisions about whether or not they want to use these particular forums, or facebook, or hop into open vent with people they don't know, no?

I'm not going to repeat my previous sentence.

Quote
I mean yes, I see that can be turned around to "well we're entitled to use this service without posting our real names on their forums, and Blizzard shouldn't make that decision for us", but really that isn't actually true in this country at least, or in South Korea. They may run into trouble in the EU from what I can tell, though.

Honestly I'm shocked even in this short time frame I haven't seen news of someone jumping the gun for a lawsuit yet.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 08, 2010, 04:37:09 PM
Protip:  Dusematic's sole purpose here is to troll.  Don't feed him.

Fuck it, I just cancelled my account and told them specifically it was over their RealID decision.

Is there any way to get them to delete the account permanently? At this point, I'm starting to question whether I want Blizzard and Activision access to my personal information at all/

Just did so as well for both my wife and my own accounts.  I do not believe there is a way to get them to permanently delete it, though, Ratman.  What I did instead was to edit my shipping address and phone # to something fake (all 5's works) and manually delete my cc/ Billing info.

Yeah, I haven't made up my mind just yet. I'm waiting to see how this all shakes out and gets implemented. I'll probably do what you said when the time comes.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: proudft on July 08, 2010, 04:44:32 PM
I'm guessing that Gearscore is sharing your info rather than acquiring it via API calls.

This is my guess, too.   I screwed around a little with the Battlenet API functions yesterday out of curiosity and was unable to get anything but nulls back on any player other than me.  I cheerfully admit, though, I may have missed something, since I have very limited experience mucking about with lua (returning multiple arguments from a function! what is this!).  Broadcasting your own info, though, is pretty easy at the moment.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lum on July 08, 2010, 05:07:52 PM
"Gearscore-RealID" confirmed to be fake.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on July 08, 2010, 05:18:08 PM
One thing I will say, at wsj.com you post comments under your real name and it is the most polite comment section I have ever seen. It is a subscription based online news site (cuts out a lot of the riff raff you might find at say the WA Post and you can filter out non subscriber comments on free to read articles which is beautiful).

A lot of factors would make applying what works at wsj.com to battle.net a not so valid comparison, but if they go through with this (IMO not likely as this backlash is pretty fierce) it is quite an interesting social experiment.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 08, 2010, 05:26:08 PM
Since I'm paid until the 26th, I cancelled with RealID as the reason.  I'll re-up on a month-by-month basis until I'm satisfied or decide not to bother anymore.  It's the best way I have of getting the point across though, by adding one more number to their tally.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 08, 2010, 05:53:37 PM
One thing I will say, at wsj.com you post comments under your real name and it is the most polite comment section I have ever seen. It is a subscription based online news site (cuts out a lot of the riff raff you might find at say the WA Post and you can filter out non subscriber comments on free to read articles which is beautiful).

A lot of factors would make applying what works at wsj.com to battle.net a not so valid comparison, but if they go through with this (IMO not likely as this backlash is pretty fierce) it is quite an interesting social experiment.

I clicked the first link on wsj.com:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111704575354863581918490.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories#articleTabs%3Dcomments

It does not strike me as any more polite than any other political column's comments section these days, and it's definitely retained the poor signal to noise ratio. It's pretty much non stop crazy.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: tmp on July 08, 2010, 06:17:55 PM
A small follow-up to the "spamming Facebook with game updates it's something that's never gonna happen" tangent...

http://fidgit.com/archives/2010/06/blur_social_tour.php (http://fidgit.com/archives/2010/06/blur_social_tour.php)




Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 08, 2010, 06:24:04 PM
 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on July 08, 2010, 06:24:34 PM
One thing I will say, at wsj.com you post comments under your real name and it is the most polite comment section I have ever seen. It is a subscription based online news site (cuts out a lot of the riff raff you might find at say the WA Post and you can filter out non subscriber comments on free to read articles which is beautiful).

A lot of factors would make applying what works at wsj.com to battle.net a not so valid comparison, but if they go through with this (IMO not likely as this backlash is pretty fierce) it is quite an interesting social experiment.

I clicked the first link on wsj.com:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111704575354863581918490.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories#articleTabs%3Dcomments

It does not strike me as any more polite than any other political column's comments section these days, and it's definitely retained the poor signal to noise ratio. It's pretty much non stop crazy.

It helps when you are a subscriber and you can filter out non-subscriber comments. Subscribers can't (easily) use fake names since it's attached to their billing info.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 08, 2010, 06:25:36 PM
Who would have thought the first serious WoW killer wasn't another game.

I would have, for one. Blizzard has always been more or less unassailable by the hacks that populate the rest of the MMO industry. They're the Roman Empire. No one is strong enough to conquer them outright, and the only way they're going to fall is by becoming fat and decadent and corrupt.

Blizzard's strength has always been it's sterling and generally well-liked reputation. Most people aren't going to quit over this bullshit, but that reputation has been tarnished in the eyes of their fans. They're on the path to becoming just another EA or SOE that everyone hates but just sorta tolerates.

This isn't the fall of the empire, but it's by far their most serious stumble to date. By rights the competitors should be getting their knives out, but they're still too incompetent to matter very much. If anything, they'll ape the stumbles just because they don't know how to do anything else.

I've said it before, but Blizzard gives off a "Muhammad Ali around 1976" vibe. He's the champ, he'll be champ for a couple years yet, you can't say he isn't a great champion without being called a moron. But... he doesn't have the spring in his step he did ten or even five years ago... and his words seem a little slower... but we can just ignore that, right? He's still the champ after all, he must be doing okay.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DLRiley on July 08, 2010, 06:30:05 PM
http://videogames.yahoo.com/events/plugged-in/world-of-warcraft-fans-rail-against-blizzard-real-names-plan/1404707

will blizz stick by guns or say "intern was fired for this practical joke"


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Tarami on July 08, 2010, 06:39:01 PM
Is there any way to get them to delete the account permanently? At this point, I'm starting to question whether I want Blizzard and Activision access to my personal information at all/

I don't think so, although you could just change your accessible information to something else nonsensical when you quit.

Quote from: http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/privacy.html#h3l12

What do I do if I want to correct or delete my personal information?

If for any reason you are concerned with the way we are using your personal information, or would like to correct or request that we delete such personal information, please contact Blizzard Entertainment Privacy Policy, Attention: Privacy Policy Administrator, at 16215 Alton Pkwy. Irvine CA 92618-3616. You can also contact us by e-mailing us at privacy@blizzard.com.

Please note that the deletion of your data will lead to the termination of your account and applicable services.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: waffel on July 08, 2010, 06:55:55 PM
Is there any way to get them to delete the account permanently? At this point, I'm starting to question whether I want Blizzard and Activision access to my personal information at all/

I don't think so, although you could just change your accessible information to something else nonsensical when you quit.

Quote from: http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/privacy.html#h3l12

What do I do if I want to correct or delete my personal information?

If for any reason you are concerned with the way we are using your personal information, or would like to correct or request that we delete such personal information, please contact Blizzard Entertainment Privacy Policy, Attention: Privacy Policy Administrator, at 16215 Alton Pkwy. Irvine CA 92618-3616. You can also contact us by e-mailing us at privacy@blizzard.com.

Please note that the deletion of your data will lead to the termination of your account and applicable services.


I'd imagine it isn't automated in some way because, well, if you make someone jump through different hoops to do it they're less likely to do it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Tarami on July 08, 2010, 06:59:42 PM
Uh, well, it would be kinda stupid with Blizzard's hacking rates if you just had to press a button to nuke your account from orbit.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 08, 2010, 07:10:59 PM
Not to mention giving people a cool-off period while they wait for a reply after getting teabagged in STV or something probably is helpful.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Draegan on July 08, 2010, 07:40:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PQtNRKZq04


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rendakor on July 08, 2010, 07:56:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PQtNRKZq04
"Gearscore-RealID" confirmed to be fake.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Draegan on July 08, 2010, 08:02:58 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PQtNRKZq04
"Gearscore-RealID" confirmed to be fake.

The gearscore author said it wasn't him, but I'm pretty sure he's not the only one that can add onto the code.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: AutomaticZen on July 08, 2010, 08:09:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PQtNRKZq04
"Gearscore-RealID" confirmed to be fake.

The gearscore author said it wasn't him, but I'm pretty sure he's not the only one that can add onto the code.

Sigh.  Let's try this again.

http://www.wow.com/2010/07/08/that-scary-gearscore-real-id-screenshot-is-fake-guys/
Quote
There's a screenshot circulating, which is cropped above, that shows a new "beta version" of the infamous GearScore mod that is able to see your Real ID name -- that is, your real name -- just by mousing over your character. It's not real. We reported on a possible security loophole in addons that could, with enough black magic, reveal your Real ID name -- but this isn't what's happening here.

The creator of the image has admitted that the screenshot isn't real. You can officially cease linking it around and freaking out. We know that the idea your real names being on the forum might be scary, but it's important to keep a level head and not let fear take hold of your behavior, no matter what side of the issue you're on.  

And the GearScore guy chimed in again.

http://gearscore.blogspot.com/2010/07/gearscore-realid.html
Quote
I have created a video to show how easy it is to fake the the previous video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO5zmuFTLtA

Here is the exact code I used to create the effect in the video:

SetNames = {}

function SomeFunctionName(arg1, arg2)
local FakeNames = { "Barack Obama", "Ronald Reagen", "Bill Clinton", "George Bush", "Ricard Nixon", "Andrew Jackson", "James Madison", "James Monroe", "John Tyler", "James Polk", "Franklin Pierce", "Gerald Ford", "John Kennedy" };
local realid = "";
if ( SetNames[UnitName("mouseover")] ) then
realid = SetNames[UnitName("mouseover")];
else
realid = FakeNames[random(1,13)];
SetNames[UnitName("mouseover")] = realid;
end
GameTooltip:AddLine("|cff00ffffRealID: |r"..realid, 1,1,1);
GameTooltip:AddLine("Hold SHIFT to view Alts");
end

GameTooltip:HookScript("OnTooltipSetUnit", SomeFunctionName);


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pantastic on July 08, 2010, 08:25:07 PM
That video is fake, but currently an add-on that you run can get your Real ID and send it to other users of the add-on if you haven't activated parental controls on your account. I don't think the wow.com author realizes this, since the way he responded sounds like he thinks that Real ID only exposes your name to forums and not to add-ons.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: AutomaticZen on July 08, 2010, 08:36:00 PM
That video is fake, but currently an add-on that you run can get your Real ID and send it to other users of the add-on if you haven't activated parental controls on your account. I don't think the wow.com author realizes this, since the way he responded sounds like he thinks that Real ID only exposes your name to forums and not to add-ons.

Where?  The security flaw is listed, but I have yet to see an actual addon use it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Gunzwei on July 08, 2010, 08:57:47 PM
I've been surprised at the lack of The Parlor references for Real-ID. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC1xFjGcZ7c&feature=related (NSFW)



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Nissl on July 08, 2010, 09:08:48 PM
After reading many threads... I have to chalk this up to a stumble on Blizzard's part.  I simply don't understand what this implementation possibly accomplishes.

Want better forums?  I haven't seen a single constructive poster, across several forums, say they'll continue to post.  Virtually all of the good posters have jobs and lives.  They won't risk their job security or family over a game.  The obvious implementation, like others have said, is that everyone gets a single, permanent pseudonym and/or account-wide armory is available.  And swing the banhammer freely.  

Want to save money on the forums?  Replace general, where nothing useful is ever posted, with the blue tracker.  Keep the rating system that's being introduced so you only have to check a couple threads per subforum per day.  

Planned Facebook leveraging/integration?  No reason you can't have a fixed bnet pseudonym and still have an opt-in (or opt-out) that links the bnet and facebook accounts to do whatever achievement publishing, advertising tie-ins, and/or hooking up with secret nerd friends or whatever.  The player base probably wouldn't have flipped out at that, but they sure will now.

Also, I don't understand what not being able to turn off RealID in game gets Blizzard other than raiders being unable to take a night off to avoid burnout.

So yeah, someone explain it to me.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on July 08, 2010, 09:29:00 PM
The gearscore author said it wasn't him, but I'm pretty sure he's not the only one that can add onto the code.

Which takes more effort, a working exploit or a table of names and a print command?

Where?  The security flaw is listed, but I have yet to see an actual addon use it.

It's not strictly speaking a security flaw.  The API can access your real ID and those of your friends, it's meant to.  That being said, you are only exposed this way by downloading a malicious or ineptly coded mod that broadcasts your personal data to others for collection.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pantastic on July 08, 2010, 09:32:19 PM
Quote from: AutomaticZen link=topic=19381.msg819199#msg819199
Where?  The security flaw is listed, but I have yet to see an actual addon use it.

I'm not sure what you mean by where, I did not say that I know of an addon that is currently sharing real id with other people currently. I said that it is possible for an addon to do that with the way the game functions currently unless you've enabled parental controls. If an room has phone and a file with personal info, it's clearly possible for a person in the room to read and share that information, even though there might not be a person in the room now.

DBM's released code displayed your Real ID in a debugging box for a while before they fixed it in the release version, and still accesses it internally to disable Real ID whispers during boss fights, that shows that an add-on can access your Real ID if you haven't turned on parental controls. You can also run one of the scripts that are posted various places to display your RealID (if a script can do it, an addon can do it). Addons can send information to other users, this is routinely used in lots of addons (including DBM) and is not anything new or obscure. Combine the two, and boom.

It's not strictly speaking a security flaw.  The API can access your real ID and those of your friends, it's meant to.  That being said, you are only exposed this way by downloading a malicious or ineptly coded mod that broadcasts your personal data to others for collection.

It's not a security bug since it is intentional, but it is a significant weakening of the protection on your private data, which would be considered a 'flaw' by people concerned about their private data. You have to trust add-ons with personal information now, where previously they could only access in-game information, which is a huge change in security.

Also, your 'only exposed' is just true if you're not using real id but haven't turned it off. If you have Real ID friends, then addons run by them or any of their friends can grab your name. That's a massively broader scope of things to trust, and it isn't really obvious in the interface that you're exposing as much as you are.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: LK on July 08, 2010, 09:56:27 PM
Blizzard likely doesn't want to ban people as that would mean a potential lost customer. They are creating a disincentive to posting on the forums that is more likely to keep people subscribing and quiet, except for people willing to take that step and post their first / last online, and those that they'd lose to this decision anyway, which will be replaced by the next generation that won't give a shit and consider this a normal part of their lives.

There's so many different perspectives on this. Like, dozens. It's so damn fascinating because you can argue from so many standpoints, all of them valid, all of them unique.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: taolurker on July 08, 2010, 10:01:21 PM
I don't even play WoW but had a discussion about RealID with a RL friend of mine today who does.

He kept insisting to me that this would not affect his game in any way because he doesn't use the forums or intend to purchase Starcraft 2.

I then continued to elaborate much of what I've read here, complete tales of privacy issues with Facebook, as well as numerous different cases where having this information readily available would be a bad thing. He was swayed by the following different bullet points (but the main reason I'm posting is I just had to post his response to one of them and the way he intends to remedy it).

Quote
  • If someone is on your friends list, they will be able to see your real name, and if that person is hacked then your account and real information is at the mercy of whoever wants it.
  • Information about anyone can easily be found online now, just using a real name, and this will make stalking someone or WoW grief revenge killings a possibility
  • The information being available through the game will allow some form of exploit that allows people to access it who aren't even on your friend's list and maybe could even be used for identity theft
  • Even if they allow a way to opt out of Real ID, it still doesn't prevent their being a link to your real information if your account is hacked, or a way to expose your friend's information if it is hacked (because the hacker can enable RealID).

My friend's response to both points about hackers was that he hoped it allowed the hacker's information to be leaked out as well, and then wondered "if the gold sellers will have actual names that can be tracked, or just bunches of gibberish characters". After that his proposal to fix the privacy leak was to create a new WoW account, that has completely phony information, pay to transfer his characters, and then let his original account close.

I almost said something to him about not letting WoW profit from this (and his) stupidity, but figured it wasn't worth it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rendakor on July 08, 2010, 10:18:10 PM
You can't transfer characters between accounts which don't have the same name.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on July 08, 2010, 10:28:46 PM
Tao, you need to stop supplying your friend with retarded arguments.

You can't perpetrate identity theft or track someone down solely with a name.  You need context which Real ID does not supply.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: waffel on July 08, 2010, 10:43:49 PM
Tao, you need to stop supplying your friend with retarded arguments.

You can't perpetrate identity theft or track someone down solely with a name.  You need context which Real ID does not supply.

... you're trolling, right?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 08, 2010, 11:31:53 PM
Post your real name here and see how quickly someone can track you down?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on July 08, 2010, 11:39:11 PM
You're retarded, right?

Real ID doesn't direct you to anything contextual.  Without that you can't winnow the data down to a usable set unless that person randomly appears at the top of the list on a Google search for their name, an improbability given the fact that names are often not unique.  More importantly, you cannot verify that the person you have found is the one you are seeking.  If you are just harvesting names en masse, the names mean jack and shit.  If you are acquainted with the person and have managed to get them to install a mod, then chances are you don't need their fucking name.

Post your real name here and see how quickly someone can track you down?  :why_so_serious:

I'm tempted.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rendakor on July 08, 2010, 11:58:01 PM
The fact that they play WoW is at least some context.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 09, 2010, 12:26:35 AM
According to Blizzard's privacy policy:

Quote
We feel under a particular obligation to protect information obtained from young children. We would strongly urge parents to instruct their children never to disclose their real name, their address or their telephone number while they are on-line without prior permission. No information should be transmitted to Blizzard by minors aged 12 years or under. Blizzard commits to never knowingly processing data provided by minors aged 12 years or under.

I don't see how that can possibly be true now. Parental control is not mandatory for children playing is it? It's advisable sure, but they don't actually lock the account until parental control is used. And even if it is used parents won't necessarily check the RealID toggle.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 09, 2010, 12:36:13 AM
Post your real name here and see how quickly someone can track you down?  :why_so_serious:

Yeah, how many times does this need to happen before people realize that it... uh... can happen? That one Blizz CM posting his name and then having the satellite view of his house posted 5 minutes later should have been enough.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Tarami on July 09, 2010, 12:54:27 AM
I'm the only one with my name on Google apparently. So... yeah.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Tebonas on July 09, 2010, 12:54:56 AM
You REALLY should learn how data is processed, Sheepherder.

In laymans terms, every bit of data about you is connectable to other bits of data out there. The only question is how much work is put into it. Bots are patient, they'll find everything over time.

An example (real person doing it, so that we don't get into search algorithms and such). You have a facebook account. You ommit your birthdate for whatever reason. You also have another account on another site, with your birthdate (common usage in age verification). Not linkable to you because you have an everyday name. Somebody congratulates you on your Facebook wall with "happy birthday, here's the picture of a cake with 30 candles".

So now your second account is with 99.99% accuracy linked to your Facebook account. All data on that site can now be incorporated into your Facebook info (and vice versa, which is the more dangerous direction). Since your mother has friended you, they know your likely place of birth and funny little tidbits about your life. Not because you can't hold your tongue, but because all the little pieces of the puzzle others provide. Enough info to social engineer the fuck out of your identity.

Search algorithms gather that data without fail. From all sites. If the size of data entries is large enough, every two infos about you can be traced back to you.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on July 09, 2010, 01:44:30 AM
A game character or two and a name won't direct people to your Facebook unless you're dumb enough to completely ignore it's privacy features while having the WoW integration shit enabled.  Knowing a name and a job at Blizzard is four highly significant data points alone.

Me?  I don't have a Facebook.  Fuck that noise.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Mosesandstick on July 09, 2010, 01:48:24 AM
What are you guys arguing about? And how will that stop somebody from googling your name? You don't need any context if you're the only person in the world with that name.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: UnSub on July 09, 2010, 01:57:41 AM
So yeah, someone explain it to me.

Activision wants a social network to bring in the fat advertising cash.

Blizzard is Activision's fat cash maker for the online world. Blizzard also wants everyone tied to their system, which is Battle.net. Adding social network functionality doesn't, on the surface, throw up that many red flags.

Facebook is the leading social network, reputedly bringing in about US$900m in 2009 (http://blog.taragana.com/index.php/archive/facebooks-2009-revenues-of-900m-almost-double-of-earlier-estimates/). Blizzard copies the Facebook model because little thought and resources need to be involved in such a project - it's a social network, for fuck's sake, it's not like it is something important. A small team of 3 or 4 bang out the alpha in two weeks, saying amongst themselves they'd never use it personally.

End result: Real ID.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: waffel on July 09, 2010, 02:01:41 AM
A game character or two and a name won't direct people to your Facebook unless you're dumb enough to completely ignore it's privacy features while having the WoW integration shit enabled.  Knowing a name and a job at Blizzard is four highly significant data points alone.

Me?  I don't have a Facebook.  Fuck that noise.

See I don't get this argument: "Well I don't have any information about me out on the internet, and I don't have a facebook. Therefore, everyone bitching about this RealID thing is wrong"

I dare say most people on this forum do a fairly decent job of keeping personal information personal. Most are adults 20+ that know better.

However, a majority of those playing WoW are kids who either don't know better, or don't realize what kind of trouble they can letting too much personal information about yourself onto the internet.

Yeah, if you search for John Smith on google you aren't going to find the person you're trying to. However, knowing the person's age, sex, state/city, company they work for, etc etc you can really narrow it down. Now, if you throw in the whole not-so-common name thing into the bag, combined with kids and teens not knowing any better (or not understanding the constant fucking around of facebook's privacy settings) and you can get into all kinds of shit.

Lastly, have you ever seen 4chan track someone down? If they really want to do it, they will. They could have some of the tiniest pieces of information available and yet they are still able to tap into the right vein and get tons of info.

edit: The argument of "well don't give out any information about yourself on the internet" is a great one. Too bad Blizzard feels the need to go ahead and give everyone your first and last name. Its a snowball of shit that should have never started rolling.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 09, 2010, 02:22:20 AM
You REALLY should learn how data is processed, Sheepherder.

In laymans terms, every bit of data about you is connectable to other bits of data out there. The only question is how much work is put into it. Bots are patient, they'll find everything over time.

An example (real person doing it, so that we don't get into search algorithms and such). You have a facebook account. You ommit your birthdate for whatever reason. You also have another account on another site, with your birthdate (common usage in age verification). Not linkable to you because you have an everyday name. Somebody congratulates you on your Facebook wall with "happy birthday, here's the picture of a cake with 30 candles".

That's a silly example, it's 8 days early to be wishing Sheepherder a happy birthday.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 09, 2010, 02:23:41 AM
Lastly, have you ever seen 4chan track someone down? If they really want to do it, they will. They could have some of the tiniest pieces of information available and yet they are still able to tap into the right vein and get tons of info.

I once tracked down a person from my past. With two bits of info. First and last name, and hometown and state. (I call that two pieces of info, name and location) now, it did take a while, but the trail always got gradually warmer. Through Intellus I was able to get a married last name, (two actually) and through a process of elimination gathered parents and siblings names. Eventually I made contact with her brother and mother, and she got one of the letters I sent out to various addresses I turned up.
This was 5 years ago, and a trail that was about 13 years old. I'm sure it's only gotten easier, with linkedin and the social networking sites taking off.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Vision on July 09, 2010, 02:28:51 AM
So yeah, someone explain it to me.

Activision wants a social network to bring in the fat advertising cash.

Blizzard is Activision's fat cash maker for the online world. Blizzard also wants everyone tied to their system, which is Battle.net. Adding social network functionality doesn't, on the surface, throw up that many red flags.

Facebook is the leading social network, reputedly bringing in about US$900m in 2009 (http://blog.taragana.com/index.php/archive/facebooks-2009-revenues-of-900m-almost-double-of-earlier-estimates/). Blizzard copies the Facebook model because little thought and resources need to be involved in such a project - it's a social network, for fuck's sake, it's not like it is something important. A small team of 3 or 4 bang out the alpha in two weeks, saying amongst themselves they'd never use it personally.

End result: Real ID.

This about sums it up.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Tebonas on July 09, 2010, 02:38:43 AM
That's a silly example, it's 8 days early to be wishing Sheepherder a happy birthday.

Its the most common example because people like to throw around their birthday nilly-willy.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: patience on July 09, 2010, 03:31:14 AM
I'm beginning to question how many unique snowflakes are really in this world. Just to check up on my exposure I googled my name and only came up with two hits. Then I used bing and came up with a lot more information including sources from other family members. The strange part is that I know for a fact that are a handful of people in the US with my name and none of them came up in the search. So unless they all suopressed their information from being available online there is a flaw here. I hope none of these guys play WoW. :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 09, 2010, 03:38:35 AM
That's a silly example, it's 8 days early to be wishing Sheepherder a happy birthday.

Its the most common example because people like to throw around their birthday nilly-willy.

I was joking, I agree with you.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: tmp on July 09, 2010, 04:12:37 AM
You're retarded, right?

Real ID doesn't direct you to anything contextual.  Without that you can't winnow the data down to a usable set unless that person randomly appears at the top of the list on a Google search for their name, an improbability given the fact that names are often not unique.  More importantly, you cannot verify that the person you have found is the one you are seeking.  If you are just harvesting names en masse, the names mean jack and shit.  If you are acquainted with the person and have managed to get them to install a mod, then chances are you don't need their fucking name.

You know, this is kind of missing the point.

Let's suppose you're right, and it's not possible to determine whether John Doe who pissed someone in WoW/Warcraft is actually the same John Doe who winds up stalked, beaten up or in a sack floating down the river. But how does it make things any better for the latter John Doe, exactly?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 09, 2010, 04:25:34 AM
You mean like Micah Whipple, from Blizzard?
http://asnowstormbyanyothername.blogspot.com/2010/07/micah-whipple.html


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 09, 2010, 05:27:49 AM
Quote
"The classic Battle.net forums, including those for Diablo II and Warcraft III, will be moving to a new legacy forum section with the release of the StarCraft II community site and at that time will also transition to using Real ID for posting."
Hope nobody here has ever posted anyone on an official Blizzard board at any point in time.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Malakili on July 09, 2010, 05:42:42 AM
Quote
"The classic Battle.net forums, including those for Diablo II and Warcraft III, will be moving to a new legacy forum section with the release of the StarCraft II community site and at that time will also transition to using Real ID for posting."
Hope nobody here has ever posted anyone on an official Blizzard board at any point in time.

Doesn't appear to be retroactive.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: AutomaticZen on July 09, 2010, 05:47:43 AM
Quote
"The classic Battle.net forums, including those for Diablo II and Warcraft III, will be moving to a new legacy forum section with the release of the StarCraft II community site and at that time will also transition to using Real ID for posting."
Hope nobody here has ever posted anyone on an official Blizzard board at any point in time.

Doesn't appear to be retroactive.

It's not.  They've made that clear previously.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Draegan on July 09, 2010, 06:24:21 AM
The gearscore author said it wasn't him, but I'm pretty sure he's not the only one that can add onto the code.

Which takes more effort, a working exploit or a table of names and a print command?

It's not very hard.  It's spreading to other games.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Dren on July 09, 2010, 06:25:42 AM
I ran into a rumor last night in our guild.  Supposedly, he read on the forums that GearScore 2.0 (or whatever version) can get your RealID and display it.  This caused a lot of commotion on the boards to the point where a macro was discovered that you could type in and it would whisper back to you through your RealID.  This guildmate typed it into our chat and it seems to work.  He said the only protection at this point is to put parental controls on yourself and completely shut off RealID.

I was just blown away that they defaulted RealID to be on and you have to go to such extremes to block it.  Once I did this to my account, the macro no longer worked.

Anyone else run into this rumor?  Blizzard blew away all the posts about it already.  Either way, if you are like me and want nothing to do with this, you have to go to the trouble of setting up parental controls for yourself to actually shut it off or block it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Khaldun on July 09, 2010, 06:31:48 AM
So yeah, someone explain it to me.

Activision wants a social network to bring in the fat advertising cash.

Blizzard is Activision's fat cash maker for the online world. Blizzard also wants everyone tied to their system, which is Battle.net. Adding social network functionality doesn't, on the surface, throw up that many red flags.

Facebook is the leading social network, reputedly bringing in about US$900m in 2009 (http://blog.taragana.com/index.php/archive/facebooks-2009-revenues-of-900m-almost-double-of-earlier-estimates/). Blizzard copies the Facebook model because little thought and resources need to be involved in such a project - it's a social network, for fuck's sake, it's not like it is something important. A small team of 3 or 4 bang out the alpha in two weeks, saying amongst themselves they'd never use it personally.

End result: Real ID.

This about sums it up.

Yeah, I agree. This is why anybody who says, "This is about cleaning up the forums, GG Blizz, I won't have to wade through the retard pool any more" is just not paying attention. This is so transparently not about forums (except maybe laying off/reassigning forum mods) that it has to be about paving the way for something that Blizz execs (or Activision execs) have decided from on high is the new high road to moneyhats. For a company that's been relentlessly savvy about making money, this is a really stunning misstep, and a sign that we really are on the verge of another domino-like collapse of online businesses, because Blizzard is not alone in imagining that Facebook is magic money and that anyone can have some of the magic money by being Facebook Jr.  


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Khaldun on July 09, 2010, 06:36:13 AM
Quote
"The classic Battle.net forums, including those for Diablo II and Warcraft III, will be moving to a new legacy forum section with the release of the StarCraft II community site and at that time will also transition to using Real ID for posting."
Hope nobody here has ever posted anyone on an official Blizzard board at any point in time.

Doesn't appear to be retroactive.

No, but if you were to choose to post to the new forums under your real name, you might also choose to allow one of your characters to appear as associated with that post--that's also something they've said. At which point, anything you've ever posted to the "legacy forums" is now pretty easy to associate with your real name. I can think of other ways to figure out what a real named forum poster's characters are once I have the real name, particularly if there's a Facebook or Facebook-like implementation of Real ID networks down the line.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Khaldun on July 09, 2010, 06:37:37 AM
I ran into a rumor last night in our guild.  Supposedly, he read on the forums that GearScore 2.0 (or whatever version) can get your RealID and display it.  This caused a lot of commotion on the boards to the point where a macro was discovered that you could type in and it would whisper back to you through your RealID.  This guildmate typed it into our chat and it seems to work.  He said the only protection at this point is to put parental controls on yourself and completely shut off RealID.

I was just blown away that they defaulted RealID to be on and you have to go to such extremes to block it.  Once I did this to my account, the macro no longer worked.

Anyone else run into this rumor?  Blizzard blew away all the posts about it already.  Either way, if you are like me and want nothing to do with this, you have to go to the trouble of setting up parental controls for yourself to actually shut it off or block it.

Rumor's been discussed here already. The Gearscore version of it is flat-out false. Whether an addon of some kind could get Real ID is still under discussion.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pantastic on July 09, 2010, 06:45:57 AM
You're retarded, right?

Real ID doesn't direct you to anything contextual.  Without that you can't winnow the data down to a usable set unless that person randomly appears at the top of the list on a Google search for their name, an improbability given the fact that names are often not unique.

Well, you can't except when you can. You know, like several people have already done on the WOW forums. It's really insane that you're saying it's not possible to do something that people have casually done (guy says 'haha, can't find me', gets a call at work 20 minutes later). RealID doesn't have to direct you to context, it reveals a huge, relatively unique identifier.

You've already got some context (they play WOW), and you've probably got a WOW character name (since the in-game RealID always links to character and if you're willing to post with your real name, why not character name?). Had connection issues in WOW and mentioned your location or regional ISP name in a tech support post while trying to sort out the problem? Whoops there's a location. Ever talk about the weather with someone in guild? After a few times of this, weather history tells you a location.

Your assumption that this is not a risky endeavor seems at odds with your other assumption that people do not ever reveal any contextual data, apparently because it's risky. Apparently you think that if someone mentions their state, or discusses their current weather half a dozen times in 3 months, or gripes about something job-related but non-specific, they're so foolish as to not be worth considering for releasing too much info, but think that complaining about having their name revealed is "retarded, right".

And 'names are often not unique' doesn't help people who's names actually are unique, and RealId doesn't do a check for name uniqueness before exposing a name.

Quote
 More importantly, you cannot verify that the person you have found is the one you are seeking.  

Well, until you call them and ask them, since people who feel safe like you do will tend to be shocked by getting such a call, and either their obvious shock on the line or something they blurt out will be the verification. Continuing on, 'Crazies might bug the wrong person instead of you, so who cares?' doesn't seem like a great defense of the idea either. Plus, if you believe this doesn't this mean that Blizzard's claims that this change will increase accountability is a complete lie, since if this is really completely untraceable, how is it increasing accountability?

Quote
If you are just harvesting names en masse, the names mean jack and shit.  If you are acquainted with the person and have managed to get them to install a mod, then chances are you don't need their fucking name.

Why do you think that listing two specific scenarios that don't come close to covering everything shows anything? What if you're in a guild, piss people off, and get kicked out. You are able to find the name of the GM because he uses the official forums to recruit, which requires his name. You get his location because he's casually mentioned it in chat when griping about something, and get confirmation about his line of business because he's griped about something related to work without mentioning any company name or specifics. BLAM no mod needed, no enmasse harvesting of names. Or how about if the mass harvester makes the database of names available on a shady site, and skeevy guy downloads it?

And I notice you still haven't posted your real name to any forums challenging people to give you a call at work or to post images of your kid's school. Why is that if you're so confident that this is a risk-free endeavor that you consider anyone concerned foolish? You're saying that releasing your name is risk free, but acting like it's extremely risky, and expecting people to act like it's risky in defense of the idea of using it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: nurtsi on July 09, 2010, 06:54:15 AM
How do you even enable parental controls? I tried enabling them on my account and it asks for the name of my child's account. I don't have two accounts. Do I need to create another "parent" account that I can use to control the privacy of my own account?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: AutomaticZen on July 09, 2010, 07:06:47 AM
I ran into a rumor last night in our guild.  Supposedly, he read on the forums that GearScore 2.0 (or whatever version) can get your RealID and display it.
It's possible, but not true currently.

The trick is, you can see your own RealID.  Pretty straightforward right?  Now an untrustworthy addon can take information you can see, and release it.

Quote
This caused a lot of commotion on the boards to the point where a macro was discovered that you could type in and it would whisper back to you through your RealID.  This guildmate typed it into our chat and it seems to work.
 
And it works because you always have access to your RealID.  Nothing more, nothing less.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Khaldun on July 09, 2010, 07:09:30 AM
Keep in mind that I think this is a dumb idea both because Blizzard is embracing a flawed commercial vision for their future and because it's part of a general assault on privacy rights + keeping the Internet a public rather than private good, but there is something to remember about the danger of having your name and information out there.

What most of us count on in the context of having information out there is not having little information out there but having a shitton of it in a world where more and more people have a shitton of information out there. This is the point that David Brin made a good while back in The Transparent Society: if almost all information about everything was publically available, in a way, it's better hidden than if it's in plain sight. The East German secret service at one point had most of their population spying on each other and providing reports of each other's activities. The information was effectively useless in identifying probably subversives because there was so much of it: some Stasi files record everything that a subject ate in a given week, the timing of all his daily activities and so on.

This is what the anti-anonymity people argue could happen for the better in the future: if we were all known in all contexts by our real name, the only people who would care about us would be the people who already care about us: friends, colleagues, associates. And yeah, people who would have a real reason to hate you born out of context, which already happens now in the offline world, and yeah, the occasional crazy psychotic who would pick you at random, which already happens now in the offline world.

The thing that the anti-anonymity people don't understand (Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg is ESPECIALLY stupid about this) is that there are social circumstances which completely change the circumstances under which we think about other human beings. A classic example that's really well understood by psychologists is traffic and road rage. On the road, the ONLY THING I KNOW about another driver is how they're driving. That's it, that's the single dimension of my relationship to them. I don't have anything else human to modify my reaction to them. This is why it's possible to imagine that someone who you might think of as a buddy, an interesting person, a sweet little old lady, or a fuckable studmuffin is an evil monster who would give Hitler a run for his money--and contemplate hurting or killing that evil monster simply because they cut you off.

Forums that bring together relative strangers to talk about an online game are much closer to the psychological situation of traffic than to our fully-realized social networks. Online games are much closer to traffic. Facebook is much closer to traffic. Hence the social affordances and inhibitions that keep us from doing really hurtful things for almost no provocation in our fully realized social worlds are not present, and the mere addition of real names is not enough to change that.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 09, 2010, 07:14:01 AM
Here's a kicker. The day before I cancelled my account, after not logging in for two weeks, I got hacked.  :awesome_for_real:

Check that, I got hacked literally an hour an a half after I cancelled... That's very odd timing.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Dren on July 09, 2010, 07:17:19 AM
For those of you that don't feel people can track you down with just your real name, you are dillusional.  I do it all the time to check up on people asking to belong to a few forums I run.  Even with just an email and some creative guess work, I always found who I was looking for.  Most of the time I'd find where they work or organizations they volunteer/work for.  Your name may not be #1 on Google, but it will be there and with just some other information (likes to play WoW for instance,) you will be found.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Dren on July 09, 2010, 07:23:48 AM
How do you even enable parental controls? I tried enabling them on my account and it asks for the name of my child's account. I don't have two accounts. Do I need to create another "parent" account that I can use to control the privacy of my own account?

I just used the same email as my account email.  You don't need two accounts.  They then email the access link to that email.  You click on it from your email and it takes you to the page where you can turn on/off certain things for your account.

A pain?  Yep.  I'm a bit upset this isn't just a normal toggle anyone can put on themselves really.  That's what I went looking for to begin with.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Righ on July 09, 2010, 08:04:49 AM
Blizzard customer service called me at 8:04 AM to discuss my cancellation. Wasn't awake. They called back at 8:45 AM and left a message.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pennilenko on July 09, 2010, 08:06:25 AM
Blizzard customer service called me at 8:04 AM to discuss my cancellation. Wasn't awake. They called back at 8:45 AM and left a message.

I bet they are getting a lot of cancellations.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 09, 2010, 08:37:23 AM
My hope is that enough cancellations before the release of their expansion will help push them in the right direction by tempering this ridiculous policy.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 09, 2010, 08:39:09 AM
Blizzard customer service called me at 8:04 AM to discuss my cancellation. Wasn't awake. They called back at 8:45 AM and left a message.

Fuckers got your phone number!

 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: tmp on July 09, 2010, 08:44:23 AM
Blizzard customer service called me at 8:04 AM to discuss my cancellation. Wasn't awake. They called back at 8:45 AM and left a message.
Did the message imply they're going to come to your home to sort out the differences in how you both might view your relationship face-to-face? :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fabricated on July 09, 2010, 09:00:59 AM
Bashiok or whatever the CM was that posted his name and got found has tendered his resignation and is literally living in a hotel now I guess? Wish I had confirmation.

The first address the kiddies found was his parent's house and they've already been harassed.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Nissl on July 09, 2010, 09:06:13 AM
Quote from: UnSub
Blizzard also wants everyone tied to their system, which is Battle.net. Adding social network functionality doesn't, on the surface, throw up that many red flags.

Facebook is the leading social network, reputedly bringing in about US$900m in 2009. Blizzard copies the Facebook model because little thought and resources need to be involved in such a project - it's a social network, for fuck's sake, it's not like it is something important. A small team of 3 or 4 bang out the alpha in two weeks, saying amongst themselves they'd never use it personally.

End result: Real ID.

Yeah, that's a remarkably succinct summary of what probably happened. Although from the "long time coming" comment I would guess they put in more resources than that.

I guess the question is whether they would lose anything from backtracking to a single fixed pseudonym across bnet/forums plus a suite of backdoor opt-in/opt-out facebook integration programs. Or maybe more to the point, how forcing a real name to be displayed somehow gets them a leg up on Steam/Xbox Live or otherwise increases their cash flow.

I suppose the idea is that if they can cross this line, fewer people will balk at aggressive future Facebook integration features. But I'm hoping it's like you and I both suggest and this was just a bad stumble in implementation.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 09, 2010, 09:10:52 AM
Bashiok or whatever the CM was that posted his name and got found has tendered his resignation and is literally living in a hotel now I guess? Wish I had confirmation.

source?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Signe on July 09, 2010, 09:15:12 AM
888-660-4834 was the number that called.  The first time Caller ID said it was "Unavailable", the second time it read "International".  Since we have family in countries other than the US, I answered the second time and took a message from Mrs. Howell for Righ.  I assume she's Lovey, the millionaire's wife.  I'm ascurred.  What if the next time, it's Gilligan himself???   (http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/images/smilies/shocker.gif)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fabricated on July 09, 2010, 09:16:54 AM
Bashiok or whatever the CM was that posted his name and got found has tendered his resignation and is literally living in a hotel now I guess? Wish I had confirmation.

source?
Like I said, no confirmation. Random scuttlebutt on the interwebs, SA, 4chan, etc. Supposedly the *chans got involved.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 09, 2010, 09:21:52 AM
if the goons and chans want to fuck with people, they should leave this poor bastard alone and go hassle Bobby and those further up the food chain.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 09, 2010, 09:46:45 AM
Privacy stuff.

All that stuff is a good post, and I agree.  But it's incomplete.  Zuckerberg the Facebook Open Society Field Marshall also completely ignores any benefits that come from anonymity.  There's a value to society at large when people have a release valve where they can say whatever the fuck they want without fear of repercussion under the guise of anonymity.  It's ugly, for sure, and it's unfortunate that it manifests itself in places on the internet where cretins congregate - like MMOs and related forums.  But it benefits us in that some guy who's contemplating wearing your skin for a suit has a way to alleviate whatever the fuck is going on in his loopy noodle.  Of course it's not a fail safe, and it's not even reliably measurable.

Zuckerberg view, which you articulately describe, ignores that value completely.  It is staggeringly Utopian, but unfortunately the cause celebre at the moment.  And it looks like Kotick picked up on this, not surprisingly, because he'll take it to the bank.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 09, 2010, 10:01:17 AM
Quote
"The classic Battle.net forums, including those for Diablo II and Warcraft III, will be moving to a new legacy forum section with the release of the StarCraft II community site and at that time will also transition to using Real ID for posting."
Hope nobody here has ever posted anyone on an official Blizzard board at any point in time.

Doesn't appear to be retroactive.

It's not.  They've made that clear previously.
1) Do you really trust Activision not to go back on that?
2) Do you really trust Activision not to accidentally fuck up the forum changes and unintentionally stick RL names against all the old posts?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fabricated on July 09, 2010, 10:11:47 AM
Wow, they backpedaled!

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25968987278&sid=1

Quote
Hello everyone,

I'd like to take some time to speak with all of you regarding our desire to make the Blizzard forums a better place for players to discuss our games. We've been constantly monitoring the feedback you've given us, as well as internally discussing your concerns about the use of real names on our forums. As a result of those discussions, we've decided at this time that real names will not be required for posting on official Blizzard forums.

It's important to note that we still remain committed to improving our forums. Our efforts are driven 100% by the desire to find ways to make our community areas more welcoming for players and encourage more constructive conversations about our games. We will still move forward with new forum features such as conversation threading, the ability to rate posts up or down, improved search functionality, and more. However, when we launch the new StarCraft II forums that include these new features, you will be posting by your StarCraft II Battle.net character name + character code, not your real name. The upgraded World of Warcraft forums with these new features will launch close to the release of Cataclysm, and also will not require your real name.

I want to make sure it's clear that our plans for the forums are completely separate from our plans for the optional in-game Real ID system now live with World of Warcraft and launching soon with StarCraft II. We believe that the powerful communications functionality enabled by Real ID, such as cross-game and cross-realm chat, make Battle.net a great place for players to stay connected to real-life friends and family while playing Blizzard games. And of course, you'll still be able to keep your relationships at the anonymous, character level if you so choose when you communicate with other players in game. Over time, we will continue to evolve Real ID on Battle.net to add new and exciting functionality within our games for players who decide to use the feature.

In closing, I want to point out that our connection with our community has always been and will always be extremely important to us. We strongly believe that Every Voice Matters, ( http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/mission.html ) and we feel fortunate to have a community that cares so passionately about our games. We will always appreciate the feedback and support of our players, which has been a key to Blizzard's success from the beginning.

Mike Morhaime
CEO & Cofounder
Blizzard Entertainment

Never been happier to be wrong. Gonna laugh when this nets Blizzard actual goodwill though.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 09, 2010, 10:13:43 AM
Well holy shit, power to the people.

I guess I can go ahead and resub when the expansion comes out.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rasix on July 09, 2010, 10:16:34 AM
I can feel less like a hypocrite now when I buy SC2 and resub for Cat.  Hooray.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: koro on July 09, 2010, 10:18:08 AM
Did we... win?

There's gotta be a catch in there somewhere.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 09, 2010, 10:21:01 AM
We won.  For now.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sickrubik on July 09, 2010, 10:25:14 AM
I'm happy that they changed their mind, even though I was more apathetic about the change than others. Additionally, I still don't think this was Activision, but just Blizzard making a misstep. There's still been no indication that battle.net or RealID was going to be showing up in Activision properties, and they can't seem to keep anything under wraps.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 09, 2010, 10:25:52 AM
We won.  For now.

"He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. Last night I sought to end that silence."


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rendakor on July 09, 2010, 10:26:07 AM
That's really good to hear.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 09, 2010, 10:27:41 AM
We won.  For now.
And all it took was threadnoughts on the official forums, every single mmo blog bar about two saying "This is a fucking terrible idea", the mass media, a Penny Arcade comic, and the destruction of one CS minion's life.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on July 09, 2010, 10:29:30 AM
Let's suppose you're right, and it's not possible to determine whether John Doe who pissed someone in WoW/Warcraft is actually the same John Doe who winds up stalked, beaten up or in a sack floating down the river. But how does it make things any better for the latter John Doe, exactly?

People know where some people live, they should fear for their lives?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 09, 2010, 10:30:21 AM
You can stop posting now. We won, you lost.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Nissl on July 09, 2010, 10:37:11 AM
Now if you could just toggle off RealID in game, appear as a fixed nickname, and disable friends of friends viewing you, I might actually use the system if I resub for the expansion.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 09, 2010, 10:37:25 AM
We won.  For now.
And all it took was threadnoughts on the official forums, every single mmo blog bar about two saying "This is a fucking terrible idea", the mass media, a Penny Arcade comic, and the destruction of one CS minion's life.


To be fair, that CS minion brazenly challenged the armpit of the internet and got what he was asking for.  I hope they leave the guy alone now, but what he did was monumentally stupid given what knowledge he must garner about the internet in his day job.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sickrubik on July 09, 2010, 10:38:44 AM
I understand what the "internet" was trying to illustrate, but I still think it was a horrible thing to do to the guy. Doubly so if the rumours of him quitting and hiding in a hotel are true.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: koro on July 09, 2010, 10:41:09 AM
I don't think anything happened to Bashiok job-wise. He's still posting on the forums.

And anyway, the whole announcement read to me as basically a big "You guys may've won for now, but we're still going to be hustling RealID. And now that you babies didn't want to just spread 'em and take it the easy way, we get to do this the slow, insidious, boiling frog way. Enjoy!"


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on July 09, 2010, 10:42:03 AM
You can stop posting now. We won, you lost.

I don't actually care much about RealID one way or another, since I can't use it to auto-fill the names of my alts in game mail.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fabricated on July 09, 2010, 10:43:12 AM
I understand what the "internet" was trying to illustrate, but I still think it was a horrible thing to do to the guy. Doubly so if the rumours of him quitting and hiding in a hotel are true.
I think people misunderstand the *chans when they do shit like this. It's not some big-minded thing about "protecting anonymity on the net", it's more like, "Lol, looks like some Blizzard employee guy gave the internet his real name since he says that's safe. Hell we have some time to kill, looks like we're ordering some pizzas!"

It's griefing people for the purpose of griefing because that's funny and something to do; the more media/internet culture visible the target is the funnier.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sickrubik on July 09, 2010, 10:46:31 AM
I completely understand #chan childishness. That only increases my point, really.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 09, 2010, 10:47:26 AM
Well that's a good backpedal. I still think the entire realid system needs some fine tuning, though. I'm not that fond of the friend of a friend thing.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: LK on July 09, 2010, 10:51:59 AM
I'm glad this is over... until next time, I guess.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Khaldun on July 09, 2010, 10:53:57 AM
The key is really the driver behind Real ID. If they stay committed to making World of Warcraft a social network, if they stay fixated on Zynga, then this is just a short-term backing off to save face, and you can fully expect that they'll be spending time over the next few weeks coming up with a slow phasing-in version of the same plan. I can even guess what that might be if they take that approach:

1. Don't say anything about the forums, real names or Real ID for a few months.
2. Offer a special pet for people who opt in to using all the features of Real ID two or so months after Cataclysm goes live.
3. Offer a special mount for people who enable the "Use my real name!" special feature just implemented in Real ID.
4. Offer a special mount plus title for players who get the achievement for 100 Facebook Updates! four months after Cataclysm goes live.
5. Change the General Forum in the official forums to "The Backroom" and create a new "Prestige General" forum for Real-ID enabled players. Blues will only reply to the Prestige General.
6. A year from now, quietly retire "The Backroom".



OR...if this begins a strong push-back inside the company against moving in a social-networking direction, then yeah, maybe the players did just win. We will see.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sickrubik on July 09, 2010, 10:54:11 AM
Well that's a good backpedal. I still think the entire realid system needs some fine tuning, though. I'm not that fond of the friend of a friend thing.

No wonder you won't add me. :( We were never friends were we! *sobs*


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Mosesandstick on July 09, 2010, 10:58:20 AM
"Over time, we will continue to evolve Real ID on Battle.net to add new and exciting functionality within our games for players who decide to use the feature."

Sounds like they still want it, in a bad way.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 09, 2010, 10:59:14 AM
Doesn't change anything for me.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Nevermore on July 09, 2010, 10:59:26 AM
They may have backed off RealID on their forums (for now?), but they still need to add aliases to the in-game version.  You think maybe the outcry on this might be an indication that yeah, maybe the majority of people might actually value their privacy?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 09, 2010, 11:05:50 AM
They need your real name to make it so that your Blizzard persona is subjected to your Facebook.  It's really as simple as that.  As long as I have the option to not do it, and hackers can't see my real name, I'm good.  But I'm still kind of wary that it won't end up like that.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 09, 2010, 11:06:53 AM
You can stop posting now. We won, you lost.

I don't actually care much about RealID one way or another, since I can't use it to auto-fill the names of my alts in game mail.

A couple of pages back you said you were tempted to post your real name, according to you it didn't matter because you didn't do facebook.  Because I'm not a total dick (all of the time), I sent you a private message with your real name and date of birth, did you miss the message or what?  Because from your real name, which was the tricky bit, I easily found facebook pages for your two brothers, one of your sisters and even your Dad.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 09, 2010, 11:07:54 AM
since the in-game RealID always links to character

This is actually not true. You can't see the characters of anyone on the friend of friend list as far as I have been able to figure out.

EDIT: Them backing off is not really that surprising, given the sheer numbers and the fact that I think for once people were actually putting their non-money where their mouth is with a change they didn't like.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 09, 2010, 11:09:09 AM
You can stop posting now. We won, you lost.

I don't actually care much about RealID one way or another, since I can't use it to auto-fill the names of my alts in game mail.

A couple of pages back you said you were tempted to post your real name, according to you it didn't matter because you didn't do facebook.  Because I'm not a total dick (all of the time), I sent you a private message with your real name and date of birth, did you miss the message or what?  Because from your real name, which was the tricky bit, I easily found facebook pages for your two brothers, one of your sisters and even your Dad.

Maybe you should give him a call.  Find out for sure.

Also.  Lol pwned.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: tmp on July 09, 2010, 11:13:36 AM
Wow, they backpedaled!

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25968987278&sid=1

Quote
we've decided at this time that real names will not be required for posting on official Blizzard forums.

However, when we launch the new StarCraft II forums that include these new features, you will be posting by your StarCraft II Battle.net character name + character code, not your real name. The upgraded World of Warcraft forums with these new features will launch close to the release of Cataclysm, and also will not require your real name.

Watch it getting rolled out with much less parade a few months down the road. There's not a single word of recognition in that post how the concept itself may be a dubious idea, nor acknowledgment the raised concerns may be warranted.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Reg on July 09, 2010, 11:23:41 AM
Even with the backpedaling this episode changes how I feel about Blizzard. I don't trust them anymore. I expect that with future Blizzard games I'll be using phony information to register.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on July 09, 2010, 11:27:12 AM
Maybe you should give him a call.  Find out for sure.

Also.  Lol pwned.

He is correct, he doesn't have an address AFAIK, but that might not be hard depending on where he's farming data.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 09, 2010, 11:28:18 AM
I wasn't trying for an address, is the photo I sent of you?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: AutomaticZen on July 09, 2010, 11:29:01 AM
Unfortunately, Blizzard doesn't understand truly why players play WoW. (http://greyshades.wordpress.com/2010/07/08/an-open-letter-to-blizzard/)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on July 09, 2010, 11:37:33 AM
I wasn't trying for an address, is the photo I sent of you?

Yes.  Four years old though.

You really should write a book about stalking people online.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Khaldun on July 09, 2010, 11:38:03 AM
 :awesome_for_real:  Loved that. Possible meme start there. "Someone already killed these Internet Dragons. It is safe."


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 09, 2010, 11:43:42 AM
I'm so glad we won!

Hurray for Scott Jennings and everyone else who opposed it. Good job, well done!

I genuinely expected people would be murdered as a result of this. I did a little research into people murdered where there is a connection with Facebook and people murdered where there is a connection with WoW. I found about 4 cases where WoW bringing people together resulted in a murder but loads more where Facebook was the catalyst. While I realise Facebook has bigger numbers I think WoW gameplay inherently provides motive, albeit a crap motive that someone should want to hurt another person in real life over a video game. But the key thing about Facebook as a catalyst for murder is that you can track people down easier with Facebook.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: AutomaticZen on July 09, 2010, 11:44:08 AM
I wasn't trying for an address, is the photo I sent of you?

And how did you find his real name?

Quote
I genuinely expected people would be murdered as a result of this. I did a little research into people murdered where there is a connection with Facebook and people murdered where there is a connection with WoW. I found about 4 cases where WoW bringing people together resulted in a murder but loads more where Facebook was the catalyst. While I realise Facebook has bigger numbers I think WoW gameplay inherently provides motive, albeit a crap motive that someone should want to hurt another person in real life over a video game. But the key thing about Facebook as a catalyst for murder is that you can track people down easier with Facebook.

Pretty much.  Dude, if someone wants to stalk and kill you, they will find you, unless you actively make sure to release nothing online.  But most people don't.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 09, 2010, 11:50:41 AM
I wasn't trying for an address, is the photo I sent of you?

Yes.  Four years old though.

You really should write a book about stalking people online.

I was making a point and trying not to be too much of a dick while doing it.  I don't do anything difficult and I also don't think I'm that good at it.  Belated congratulations on the Certificate you got in fifth grade for the essay on how to say "No to Drugs" though.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Draegan on July 09, 2010, 11:52:28 AM
Internet Detective indeed.  lol  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Soln on July 09, 2010, 11:52:32 AM
This is pretty funny.  All of it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Dren on July 09, 2010, 11:53:19 AM
Keep in mind, he's doing that all for free.  You can easily get more if you are willing to pay for reports.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 09, 2010, 11:57:01 AM
Well that's a good backpedal. I still think the entire realid system needs some fine tuning, though. I'm not that fond of the friend of a friend thing.
]

Penny-Arcade sees the same thing.

Quote
You should be careful about any kind of celebration, though: the third paragraph tells you why.  They're still tying incredibly useful Battle.net functionality to it, so this is the Public Relations equivalent of Aikido.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on July 09, 2010, 12:05:42 PM
I wasn't trying for an address, is the photo I sent of you?

And how did you find his real name?

Yeah, I'm kind of perplexed.  He doesn't have my RealID.

I was making a point and trying not to be too much of a dick while doing it.  I don't do anything difficult and I also don't think I'm that good at it.  Belated congratulations on the Certificate you got in fifth grade for the essay on how to say "No to Drugs" though.

Ha, they gave one of those to everyone in the school district.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 09, 2010, 12:06:56 PM
I wasn't trying for an address, is the photo I sent of you?

Yes.  Four years old though.

You really should write a book about stalking people online.
---
Yeah, I'm kind of perplexed.  He doesn't have my RealID.


You really should accept that you got pwned hard and shut the fuck up now.

The point is that shit like that is even easier if you know someone's first and last names. Now pretend that instead of you being you, that you've got a female name, and that AP is some creepy guildmate guy, who'd really just like to get to know you a little more, but is a bit shy sometimes.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: waffel on July 09, 2010, 12:08:37 PM
I wasn't trying for an address, is the photo I sent of you?

And how did you find his real name?

Yeah, I'm kind of perplexed.  He doesn't have my RealID.

I was making a point and trying not to be too much of a dick while doing it.  I don't do anything difficult and I also don't think I'm that good at it.  Belated congratulations on the Certificate you got in fifth grade for the essay on how to say "No to Drugs" though.

Ha, they gave one of those to everyone in the school district.

I'm sure it had something to do with going through your post history, pulling some relevant information about you, possible finding 'you' on another forum and doing the same, and then combing info in a search.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 09, 2010, 12:09:56 PM
It's funnier if he keeps going.  :popcorn:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 09, 2010, 12:10:43 PM
ok, sold.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 09, 2010, 12:11:25 PM
I'm sure it had something to do with going through your post history, pulling some relevant information about you, possible finding 'you' on another forum and doing the same, and then combing info in a search.

I've sent him a pm with links so he can cover his tracks, but basically yes.

Edit to add, I forgot to say, I found it funny that Sheepherder doesn't do facebook, but his primary school certainly does.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on July 09, 2010, 12:14:04 PM
You really should accept that you got pwned hard and shut the fuck up now.

It's actually pretty lulzy.  He explained the magic trick, he's better at it than he gives himself credit for.

EDIT: I was out of primary and secondary school before they did Facebook.  I'm going to have to find if they've retroactively added information.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 09, 2010, 12:20:21 PM

You really should accept that you got pwned hard and shut the fuck up now.


It seems sort of risky to me to go around posting contentious comments like this that might piss people off given how easy it is to track someone down on the internet!  :why_so_serious:

Just about any person who has posted on f13 long enough could probably be found - I know I would be trivially easy since I've not attempted to hide my tracks in any way and have linked stuff directly from things in my name on multiple occasions.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on July 09, 2010, 12:24:21 PM
Arthur Parker has an inhumanly accurate ability to recall factoids.  It's pretty fucking cool.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pennilenko on July 09, 2010, 12:26:54 PM
Arthur Parker has an inhumanly accurate ability to recall factoids.  It's pretty fucking cool.

I hope your previous opinions are a bit more tempered now.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 09, 2010, 12:27:48 PM
Arthur Parker has an inhumanly accurate ability to recall factoids.  It's pretty fucking cool.

I hope your previous opinions are a bit more tempered now.

This is the internet. Once you've made a statement you cannot change your mind. HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST IT!  :mob:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Khaldun on July 09, 2010, 12:31:41 PM
The thing is, when you're in a pseudonymous environment like this one, where people have stable long-term identities and stable long-term forum personalities, it would take a really scary sociopath to NOT reveal information. You'd have to play weird, skanky kinds of identity games where you revealed false details, had several personas or attitudes, and so on. There are people who do in fact act just that way in blog comment areas or asynchronous forums and they are almost always obvious *as* psychopaths or disturbed people, even if that's all you know about them. Occasionally you even have forums where everyone is encouraged to act like that, where that's the local culture, but mostly, if you've got adults talking to each other over a period of years, they're going to give up a lot of information about who they are, what they do, where they live and so on.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 09, 2010, 12:35:10 PM
And of course all that same sort of social information sharing goes on in guilds in WoW as well, which depending on how concerned or not you are about your privacy in general, could make RealID almost an afterthought in terms of your stalkability or whatever.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 09, 2010, 12:37:11 PM
Judging from Arthur's picture I think he may be part bloodhound.

The point I was making is that the leap from in-game anger to real life action is a smaller mental transition if the cocksucker corpse camping you is called Robert Foster than if he's called Thongor the Orc Warrior. Using real names puts people, angry people, in a social space where they're dealing with annoying real people rather than annoying game people.

It's not that RealID includes your address and where your little girl goes to school. It's that it gives other players the idea that you're a real person they can really get back at.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on July 09, 2010, 12:42:59 PM
I hope your previous opinions are a bit more tempered now.

Yes.  Humanity is doomed to the fire of Arthur's eyes.  No exceptions.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Khaldun on July 09, 2010, 12:43:44 PM
And yet keeps you just unreal enough that you're still someone "on the Internet". That's the dangerous combination: where what you know morally about a person is that they've been camping your corpse for two hours in Stranglethorn and emoting /assrape on you, but you don't know that the camper is a 32-year old accountant with two daughters who has been crying because they got fired yesterday but most of the time loves the same TV shows as you do. You only know the social information in the game, but you may know just enough real information out of the game to feel capable of ordering pizzas, making a creepy phone call, sending a message to their employer, and so on. And there's enough young people playing who also tend to have an underdeveloped understanding of consequences in any respect. It's a bad environment to be playing games with mix-and-matching the wrong forms of information.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 09, 2010, 12:51:46 PM
Judging from Arthur's picture I think he may be part bloodhound.

The point I was making is that the leap from in-game anger to real life action is a smaller mental transition if the cocksucker corpse camping you is called Robert Foster than if he's called Thongor the Orc Warrior. Using real names puts people, angry people, in a social space where they're dealing with annoying real people rather than annoying game people.

It's not that RealID includes your address and where your little girl goes to school. It's that it gives other players the idea that you're a real person they can really get back at.

I think if you're at the point where you're worrying about random people you run across in a BG or something, you're probably going to drive yourself crazy for no reason.

Really if there's a group you should be concerned about, it is people you have at least some kind of regular social contact with. Situations where someone you don't 'know' is going to do something like track you down and do something over a random PVP kill somewhere are random crazy stastical outliers that are really not worth worrying about. In other words, if you have a creepy guildmate or something along those lines, that's the guy to watch out for, not someone from the opposite faction who you can't even talk to in game. I don't have a source at hand but I'm pretty sure the vast majority of stalking/harrassment type incidents come from people you know.

Humans are just bad in general at balancing risks. We take much bigger risks every time we get into a car and drive somewhere, but car crashes are commonplace and not sensationalized like the occasional 'guy drove 500 miles to attack someone with a samurai sword because he ninjaed his Cloudsong' situations.

And I know I'm being flippant and I don't really mean to minimize the risks - obviously it is a good thing they toned down the proposed forum system, it wasn't really necessary. But otherwise with the people you're likely to want to use it with - RL friends, guildmates you've known a long time, etc. - what they can do with your RealID is not really any different risk-wise than the information you've probably already shared with most of them. And if you're a person who already keeps their information very close to the vest, then it seems unlikely to me you're going to want to use the features that RealID enables at this point anyway.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: AutomaticZen on July 09, 2010, 12:52:00 PM
And of course all that same sort of social information sharing goes on in guilds in WoW as well, which depending on how concerned or not you are about your privacy in general, could make RealID almost an afterthought in terms of your stalkability or whatever.

Pretty much.  Hence why the extra mouth-froth on top of everything else is interesting.

Quote
The point I was making is that the leap from in-game anger to real life action is a smaller mental transition if the cocksucker corpse camping you is called Robert Foster than if he's called Thongor the Orc Warrior. Using real names puts people, angry people, in a social space where they're dealing with annoying real people rather than annoying game people.

It's not that RealID includes your address and where your little girl goes to school. It's that it gives other players the idea that you're a real person they can really get back at.
Well put.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Nevermore on July 09, 2010, 01:01:23 PM
And of course all that same sort of social information sharing goes on in guilds in WoW as well, which depending on how concerned or not you are about your privacy in general, could make RealID almost an afterthought in terms of your stalkability or whatever.

That seems to use the same logic as "Why bother using a seat belt when I could still die in a car crash anyway?"  People can still try to minimize risk even if it can't be eliminated completely.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 09, 2010, 01:04:34 PM
I'm not actually worried for myself that someone is going to show up at the door with an axe. I am worried that some people will die, especially young people. I would feel very uncomfortable if I went along with RealID because I simply must play Diablo 3 and later saw on the news that a young woman had been murdered by a WoW-related stalker. I watched an interview with the parents of the girl murdered by a Facebook sexual predator and it haunts me.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wear/8556914.stm

Possibly I'm overly sensitive. It won't really be my fault if Blizzard exposes their customers to a one in a million risk of being murdered and the statistical 11 murders happen. But I would feel that I should have taken a stand.

Personally what is far more likely given my career as a librarian by day and gamer bastard by night is someone would phone my boss and tell her what a terrible person I am. I'd probably lose my job if I upset a 9 year old girl so much she couldn't log into World of Warcraft but I'm regularly upsetting other players (ganking, auction house undercutting, assigning raid loot to someone else, etc). It wouldn't be hard for a pissed off person to get me sacked.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 09, 2010, 01:05:02 PM
And of course all that same sort of social information sharing goes on in guilds in WoW as well, which depending on how concerned or not you are about your privacy in general, could make RealID almost an afterthought in terms of your stalkability or whatever.

That seems to use the same logic as "Why bother using a seat belt when I could still die in a car crash anyway?"  People can still try to minimize risk even if it can't be eliminated completely.

Of course - but at the same time there is a line where you can be so risk-averse that you end up costing yourself something useful for no significant gain. The issue is finding where that line is for yourself. For you obviously it is in a different place than for me.

EDIT: To provide what is perhaps an extreme example, if either Sjofn or I had been as risk-averse about social contact through the Internet as many (most?) people in this thread seem to be advocating, we'd never have met, gotten married, etc. Obviously I prefer the result I've got to that.

Possibly I'm overly sensitive. It won't really be my fault if Blizzard exposes their customers to a one in a million risk of being murdered and the statistical 11 murders happen. But I would feel that I should have taken a stand.

At the moment (pending the definitive answering of the RealID mod channel loophole issue) it isn't really accurate to say "Blizzard is exposing their customers to X risk". Blizzard is providing you a tool that you *can* use, that has some tangible benefits, but also some downsides. You have the choice to use it, or not. Some people will choose not to use it; others will and will consciously be deciding to have their name out where it can be found. I can't really call that Blizzard's fault, any more than I can call it Facebook's fault when someone blabs about their sexual escapades and forgets that their wife or mother can read their wall.

Yes there are people saying "clearly this will eventually be required in order to do anything in game at all!" You can choose, or not, to be that cynical about it, but the only thing really worth discussing without getting into what is essentially pointless speculation is how it works now.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on July 09, 2010, 01:20:58 PM
Stabs, you've probably already shared enough that you can be found if someone really wants to look.  Ask Arthur if you're curious.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 09, 2010, 01:21:07 PM
As you say, Ingmar, it's a tool I can use (but won't). It's also a tool stupid people can use.

Ashleigh Hall was possibly stupid to arrange a meeting with some guy she met on Facebook, she was definitely stupid to go alone and she was especially stupid to get in the car with him.

Transitioning from an identity system that is safe for everyone to a system that is dangerous for foolish people is not ok. Even though I'm not foolish.

@ Sheepherder Oh I know that, but I'm not actively corpse camping any of you and I didn't give the purple Ingmar's been raiding for for half a year away to some pug who just joined our raid for the evening. It's pissing people off PLUS being traceable that I object to, I don't mind being vaguely traceable.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 09, 2010, 01:25:06 PM
As you say, Ingmar, it's a tool I can use (but won't). It's also a tool stupid people can use.

Stupid people can also buy liquor, operate vehicles, have children, and vote. I mean I guess we could eliminate all these things as options for everyone for fear that stupid people will do stupid things with them...

(And yes I realize my hyperbole is a bit extreme here.)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 09, 2010, 01:27:23 PM
As you say, Ingmar, it's a tool I can use (but won't). It's also a tool stupid people can use.

Stupid people can also buy liquor, operate vehicles, have children, and vote. I mean I guess we could eliminate all these things as options for everyone for fear that stupid people will do stupid things with them...

(And yes I realize my hyperbole is a bit extreme here.)

I wouldn't mind a 5 question exam before you had to purchase a bottle of booze. It would be like a quest!


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 09, 2010, 01:33:11 PM
It's like saying you should have your real name on your car's license plate.  In reality, if you wrote down someone's license plate number after he made you rage, it's probably not too difficult to find them.  But people generally don't do that, because that person's personal information isn't looking them in the eye, taunting them, daring them even, to make it personal as it would be if you could read the person's name during the act itself. 

Instead we just use an innocuous number, like that dirty corpse camper Gorlac is not really Showanna Johnson.  Where Gorlac is inane and predictable, Showanna will illicit a response in some people, and so Showanna is likely happy to conduct her corpse camping business under a pseudonym.  There doesn't need to be a good reason for that.  The reason is that there's just no reason for it to be otherwise, other than in this case, Blizz wants Facebook money.  People aren't perfect, and bad shit is going to happen.  It's not simply being paternalistic to try and limit it.  It's self-preservation, as I think everything is - another discussion, perhaps.

As soon as we get into whether or not it's better for us to be more open on the internet through closing the door on anonymity, you lose.  It's just not true.  People are going to be willing to fight that notion for real.  That's when people's license plates start getting looked up.  And not the people you thought.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 09, 2010, 01:37:07 PM
Of course - but at the same time there is a line where you can be so risk-averse that you end up costing yourself something useful for no significant gain. The issue is finding where that line is for yourself. For you obviously it is in a different place than for me.

EDIT: To provide what is perhaps an extreme example, if either Sjofn or I had been as risk-averse about social contact through the Internet as many (most?) people in this thread seem to be advocating, we'd never have met, gotten married, etc. Obviously I prefer the result I've got to that.
There is a huge gulf.  I've gone up to Edmonton to meet a group of MUD friends and did a return trip with my girlfriend at the time a few years later.  Vu moved here because of an internet friendship.  Many of you know my name.  (Not that it's at all hard to figure out with a minimum of searching)  However there are ways to allow for privacy that don't involve such binary systems.

If Blizzard had presented this as a tiered system with a fixed handle ala CoX and a further option to share your real name like Facebook, they would have made internet history.  As is?  They fucked up and it'll be a long time before people trust them again and they cost themselves subs because of stubbornness,  If internally this went over as well as the rumors suggest, it was doubly a stupid monetization scheme.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Quinton on July 09, 2010, 01:41:07 PM
The interesting thing is that Blizzard is not stepping back from RealID anywhere where it might slow the facebook-ization of WoW/SC2/etc and that they continue to misrepresent the purpose of it.  There's no need for RealID to allow for cross-realm chat, etc -- you just need a universal ID within Blizzard's services.  This is a solved problem.  Insisting on tying it to a subscriber's actual realworld name doesn't benefit the subscriber, only Blizzard as they try to find exciting new ways to monetize their users (these money hats are great, but why stop now?!)



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 09, 2010, 01:46:09 PM
Benefit is a strong word for it but I actually tend to prefer using the real name thing for people who I knew first outside of just the gaming context - I don't think of my college friends as "Xlegolasx" or "Vuvuzelaman" or whatever, I think of them by their real names and I find the nicknames kind of jarring at times.

I could obviously suck it up and deal if it was an alias instead of a real name thing, though, it just isn't that important to me either way.

EDIT:

As far as the "never trust them again" thing, while I'm seeing a fair amount of that from some quarters, I'm betting that in the long run they probably earned a lot of points with people as "the company who is willing to listen to their customers".


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sickrubik on July 09, 2010, 02:01:07 PM
If Blizzard had presented this as a tiered system with a fixed handle ala CoX and a further option to share your real name like Facebook, they would have made internet history.  As is?  They fucked up and it'll be a long time before people trust them again and they cost themselves subs because of stubbornness,  If internally this went over as well as the rumors suggest, it was doubly a stupid monetization scheme.

I'm not sure I see what stubbornness you mean. There was some initial "this is what we are going to do", but no company is going to make a decision on something this integral to their development plans in a span of an hour.

I understand the frustration with the change in the first place, but they did what people were hoping, they changed their minds. Yes, they probably will still implement it in one form or another, but for now, things are going as they were. Hopefully they learn and make changes for this system down the road that appease some of the unhappy people.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 09, 2010, 02:02:50 PM
Yeah a company the size of Blizzard is always going to take at least a day or two to make a decision like killing this. You have to get all the stakeholders together, get people to sign off on whatever you're going to do instead, etc. Really I'm surprised this didn't drag on at least through the weekend.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 09, 2010, 02:08:24 PM
I'm not sure I see what stubbornness you mean. There was some initial "this is what we are going to do", but no company is going to make a decision on something this integral to their development plans in a span of an hour.
Their initial follow-up didn't sound like they were going to be flexible, at all.  It wasn't until the "Oh dear, they really don't like this reality settled in that they went up the chain".


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 09, 2010, 02:14:25 PM
You kind of have to post something like that while it is being discussed in the back room though - if you post something more flexible sounding, and then the back room people decide "no we really are going forward with this" then you lose even more credibility than you would just by posting the company line and saying "we are reading your feedback".


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Vision on July 09, 2010, 02:20:41 PM
Or they decided they were going to implement an extremely stupid RealID system, know the fanbase outcry would be through the roof, then repeal it and hide behind the shield of "well we truly serve our fans. So lets show that we listen to people."

Just read the first few posts under the repeal post. 


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 09, 2010, 02:21:17 PM
Check this out, and prepare to feel violated.

http://pipl.com/


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 09, 2010, 02:23:33 PM
It occurs to me that another hidden 'benefit' of RealID using real names is it is actually easier socially to tell someone "no sorry" when you DON'T want to RealID friend them when it isn't just an alias.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Numtini on July 09, 2010, 02:31:54 PM
Check this out, and prepare to feel violated.

http://pipl.com/

Nada for me on there. It had one myspace, I changed the info (forgot I'd ever created it) and did another search and it was gone (so it's live search, not cached).

I've inputted my name in other sites and found addresses and lists of ex-roommates from college. pipl is pretty tame.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 09, 2010, 02:34:35 PM
I think you are just lucky.

That thing linked me to at least 20 other sites of a similar nature.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 09, 2010, 02:35:16 PM
Check this out, and prepare to feel violated.

http://pipl.com/

Nothing on me unless you know my city/state as well as my name, at which point you could have tracked me down 50 years ago with the phonebook, so whatever. With just my name you end up getting a bunch of people I never knew existed.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 09, 2010, 02:39:07 PM
Ah, see I used my name and such. Still, its kinda scary, not only do you need to pay for your own info, you need to pay to have it scrubbed off the net.  :ye_gods:

Even put in my e-mail and it went right to my myspace page.... I never knew myspace had my e-mail anywhere on the site, let alone directly linked somehow to my page.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 09, 2010, 02:39:19 PM
Even when I put in my name and city both, only a couple of the things were actually me - apparently I'm not even the only one of me in my not-that-large town.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: waffel on July 09, 2010, 02:46:50 PM
My full first name into google:
About 131,000,000 results  (0.31 seconds)

My full last name into google:
About 170,000,000 results  (0.15 seconds)

Putting those into pipl combined with my home city found me. It found a lot of other people, but out of the two 'contacts details' it found, it wouldn't be hard to pick me out of the two, since it's pretty obvious I'm not 77.


It has my correct address, but for some reason thinks I'm in a relationship and my hobbies include Travel, Home decorating, Home improvement.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: AutomaticZen on July 09, 2010, 02:59:05 PM
Check this out, and prepare to feel violated.

http://pipl.com/

Putting my name, city and state did not find me, but it did find a myspace of a guy who looks like a scary me and lived in my last city.

I'm still pretty easy to find though.  Just not through that.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 09, 2010, 03:10:07 PM
It found my facebook which should have most info obscured to non-friends.  That was it.

Google on first+middle, first+last, or even first or last alone (with lots of useless links) turns up for more.  It's kind of silly that it can't find anything else considering any combination of my names is unique.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fordel on July 09, 2010, 03:10:27 PM
Even when I put in my name and city both, only a couple of the things were actually me - apparently I'm not even the only one of me in my not-that-large town.

I told you that you were Mr. Generic Name.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 09, 2010, 03:15:01 PM
EDIT: I was out of primary and secondary school before they did Facebook.  I'm going to have to find if they've retroactively added information.

Naw, it's a facebook group, not an official school thing, contact your extensive facebook siblings network about it  :-P


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 09, 2010, 03:16:07 PM
Check this out, and prepare to feel violated.

http://pipl.com/

 :ye_gods:



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 09, 2010, 03:23:42 PM
Wow, they backpedaled!

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25968987278&sid=1

Never been happier to be wrong. Gonna laugh when this nets Blizzard actual goodwill though.

I feel like a 14 year old girl who just narrowly escaped a ride in the candy van.

This ain't over yet.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 09, 2010, 04:04:45 PM
That pipl thing confirms I have a very common name across the world, but nailed down my location, phone # i never use, and my sister's name.

Luckily it's the South so we're all packing a small armory of guns down here if ppl come a'lookin.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Vision on July 09, 2010, 04:06:19 PM
Check this out, and prepare to feel violated.

http://pipl.com/

 :ye_gods:


:pedobear:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 09, 2010, 04:07:54 PM
Check this out, and prepare to feel violated.

http://pipl.com/

It thinks I live with my mom. Well that hasn't been true for over a decade, and I even own my house :( What a shitty search! And it has my zodiac sign wrong, which is hilarious since it has the birthday right.

The idea behind the site when I click in though, is Fucking Creepy.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 09, 2010, 04:10:29 PM
Check this out, and prepare to feel violated.

http://pipl.com/

It thinks I live with my mom. Well that hasn't been true for over a decade, and I even own my house :( What a shitty search! And it has my zodiac sign wrong, which is hilarious since it has the birthday right.

The idea behind the site when I click in though, is Fucking Creepy.

Thats the thing, its an aggregate site of all public records, and other sites of the same nature. Such as the one you clicked on and looked at your zodiac sign, did you notice the inline google street view directly to your house (wrong or not).


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sjofn on July 09, 2010, 04:12:19 PM
Of course - but at the same time there is a line where you can be so risk-averse that you end up costing yourself something useful for no significant gain. The issue is finding where that line is for yourself. For you obviously it is in a different place than for me.

EDIT: To provide what is perhaps an extreme example, if either Sjofn or I had been as risk-averse about social contact through the Internet as many (most?) people in this thread seem to be advocating, we'd never have met, gotten married, etc. Obviously I prefer the result I've got to that.
There is a huge gulf.  I've gone up to Edmonton to meet a group of MUD friends and did a return trip with my girlfriend at the time a few years later.  Vu moved here because of an internet friendship.  Many of you know my name.  (Not that it's at all hard to figure out with a minimum of searching)  However there are ways to allow for privacy that don't involve such binary systems.

If Blizzard had presented this as a tiered system with a fixed handle ala CoX and a further option to share your real name like Facebook, they would have made internet history.  As is?  They fucked up and it'll be a long time before people trust them again and they cost themselves subs because of stubbornness,  If internally this went over as well as the rumors suggest, it was doubly a stupid monetization scheme.

It's not really as huge as you think. If at any point one of your MUD friends did something to you, people would be calling you stupid for going to see them. If Ingmar had at any point turned into a crazy man and hurt me, people would've been calling me stupid. It doesn't matter how well you knew your Fake Internet Friends, if it turned out you didn't know them as well as you thought, people call YOU stupid for trusting them.

I'm not saying RealID is awesome and I am definitely not saying I would be comfortable having my real name displayed every time I post. Those are beyond my personal boundries. But everyone breaks the "common sense" rules to protect one's privacy and protect one's self from the nebulous Bad People. It's just most of the time, you aren't dealing with a bad person. But once in a while, someone is and then everyone tsks and laments how people are stupid because they don't wall themselves off completely from other people they meet.

EDIT: Haha, who am I kidding, they only tsk about WOMEN being stupid.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 09, 2010, 04:16:48 PM
I'm not saying ReadID is awesome and I am definitely not saying I would be comfortable having my real name displayed every time I post. Those are beyond my personal boundries. But everyone breaks the "common sense" rules to protect one's privacy and protect one's self from the nebulous Bad People. It's just most of the time, you aren't dealing with a bad person. But once in a while, someone is and then everyone tsks and laments how people are stupid because they don't wall themselves off completely from other people they meet.

Mandatory disclosure is crap. Jane McBeatenwife should be able to post about her talent build without leaving another breadcrumb for Mr McBeatenwife to follow. I'm sure there's some extremes of total disclosure or total anonymity that are unworkable, but for the most part, people on the net should be able to decide how much of a personal footprint they leave.

I think I'm agreeing with you?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: patience on July 09, 2010, 04:17:22 PM
They need your real name to make it so that your Blizzard persona is subjected to your Facebook.  It's really as simple as that.  As long as I have the option to not do it, and hackers can't see my real name, I'm good.  But I'm still kind of wary that it won't end up like that.

This logic confuses me somewhat. Blizzard already has or will have a huge chunk of players IDs to begin with when they pay through debit or credit cards. Using such sources to share with corporate friends has been done before and we as a society have tacitly condoned it. They won't get everyone unlike Real ID so I don't see what the point is in making a hamfisted move to capture everyone...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KtPiECJWro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KtPiECJWro)



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 09, 2010, 04:17:33 PM
.. but what if you ARE stupid for trusting us?

I mean, I could kick your ass or something (don't hurt me!)

I've met a lot of Fake Internet Friends at this point in my life, but my comfort level is always meeting them first on even terms with an easy backout plan. So far they've all been really cool, but I'm still a little wary of the whole New Internet People thing, just because I really don't know them yet.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sjofn on July 09, 2010, 04:19:17 PM
I'm not saying ReadID is awesome and I am definitely not saying I would be comfortable having my real name displayed every time I post. Those are beyond my personal boundries. But everyone breaks the "common sense" rules to protect one's privacy and protect one's self from the nebulous Bad People. It's just most of the time, you aren't dealing with a bad person. But once in a while, someone is and then everyone tsks and laments how people are stupid because they don't wall themselves off completely from other people they meet.

Mandatory disclosure is crap. Jane McBeatenwife should be able to post about her talent build without leaving another breadcrumb for Mr McBeatenwife to follow. I'm sure there's some extremes of total disclosure or total anonymity that are unworkable, but for the most part, people on the net should be able to decide how much of a personal footprint they leave.

I think I'm agreeing with you?

Yeah, you are. My point was just that everyone has their own line in the sand and should be able to make that decision for themselves, with a side of "and if it turns out someone abuses the trust placed in them, that doesn't necessarily mean the victim was being stupid, you asshole victim blamers."  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 09, 2010, 04:21:19 PM
It's just most of the time, you aren't dealing with a bad person. But once in a while, someone is and then everyone tsks and laments how people are stupid because they don't wall themselves off completely from other people they meet.

Yeah, they will. Victims of lots of crimes get judged for simply being where they are IRL as well. The internet is not special in this regard.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: proudft on July 09, 2010, 04:21:57 PM
I've met a lot of Fake Internet Friends at this point in my life, but my comfort level is always meeting them first on even terms with an easy backout plan.

I thought we met next to the police station for the scenery.   :cry2:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 09, 2010, 04:28:43 PM
I thought Real ID was like the phone book.  I have always had an unlisted number, I saw what happened to Sarah Connor 1 & 2 as a kid.  The telephone isn't evil, the phone book isn't evil and most people in the phone book don't get murdered.  But it's the "most" that bugs people I think.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sickrubik on July 09, 2010, 04:43:43 PM
I've met a lot of Fake Internet Friends at this point in my life, but my comfort level is always meeting them first on even terms with an easy backout plan. So far they've all been really cool, but I'm still a little wary of the whole New Internet People thing, just because I really don't know them yet.

Flying to California has an easy backout plan? <3


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Merusk on July 09, 2010, 04:53:24 PM
Internet Detective indeed.  lol  :awesome_for_real:

You should see what Righ can do if motivated.  There's a reason his grief title is "Teaching the world Google-fu one broken dream at a time."


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Merusk on July 09, 2010, 05:04:12 PM
And of course all that same sort of social information sharing goes on in guilds in WoW as well, which depending on how concerned or not you are about your privacy in general, could make RealID almost an afterthought in terms of your stalkability or whatever.

Pretty much.  Hence why the extra mouth-froth on top of everything else is interesting.

For me, it was never, ever about keeping someone from putting the pieces together and tracking me down.  I have a long internet history as this name and anyone who chooses to do so could.  However, that internet history is attached to THIS NAME, not my real one which is my Professional moniker.  It would take more work to link the two than a simple google search, but I know it can be done.  However, that's more work than someone looking for my True Name in a professional capacity is likely to do.

 I'm not going for security-clearance-level of obfuscation, only random client level.  I don't want my game profile to pop up if you're looking for an Architectural opinion or design, I want my professional or public personal profile to do so, which it does.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Merusk on July 09, 2010, 05:16:34 PM
Check this out, and prepare to feel violated.

http://pipl.com/

Nah, I'm good with all the info it brings up on me.  Public records are public records and being a married homeowner there's going to be some stuff about me online these days. 

However,  there are only 3 people in the entire country with my name and we all have different middle names. While I don't know that branch of the family I know why they're where they are and it's why we don't talk.  It's one of the reasons I'm so obsessive about maintaining my public profile and revealing any part of it only on my own terms.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 09, 2010, 05:28:57 PM
I've met a lot of Fake Internet Friends at this point in my life, but my comfort level is always meeting them first on even terms with an easy backout plan. So far they've all been really cool, but I'm still a little wary of the whole New Internet People thing, just because I really don't know them yet.

Flying to California has an easy backout plan? <3

It's a relatively easy state to light on fire.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: craan on July 09, 2010, 06:01:47 PM
Thanks to pipl I found a violent sex offender with my first, middle, and last name in the same state.   :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 09, 2010, 06:15:56 PM
I still don't get what this system is for. My real-life friends and relatives? They're all on my IM list and we're not turning our IM programs off, since not everyone we might want to hear from plays WoW. I wonder what their adoption rate on this is going to be.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on July 09, 2010, 06:34:36 PM
contact your extensive facebook siblings network about it  :-P

Which one? :why_so_serious:

EDIT: The funny part is that neither of my parents object to abortion or birth control.  They're just fucking insane.

And no, I don't have an eating disorder.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 09, 2010, 06:51:33 PM
Also, it's been what, a few days since they announced the whole real names on forums thing? By the standards of a large company this has been a shockingly fast reversal. Someone thought this was a good idea, and whoever it was has been given something to think about.

I wonder how many people unsubbed over this. I know the cancellation page was supposedly down for a little while with all the traffic. It has to have been a noteworthy number, they didn't go back on this just because the forum thread got really long.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 09, 2010, 06:52:50 PM
The thing is, when you're in a pseudonymous environment like this one, where people have stable long-term identities and stable long-term forum personalities, it would take a really scary sociopath to NOT reveal information. You'd have to play weird, skanky kinds of identity games where you revealed false details, had several personas or attitudes, and so on. There are people who do in fact act just that way in blog comment areas or asynchronous forums and they are almost always obvious *as* psychopaths or disturbed people, even if that's all you know about them. Occasionally you even have forums where everyone is encouraged to act like that, where that's the local culture, but mostly, if you've got adults talking to each other over a period of years, they're going to give up a lot of information about who they are, what they do, where they live and so on.

Did I ever tell you about the time I saw a guy bitten in half by a shark? It was shortly after taking a break from being the only honest NYC cop, but before I started to train Special Forces or went on to run the intelligence community in the Middle East.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Fordel on July 09, 2010, 06:59:05 PM
Also, it's been what, a few days since they announced the whole real names on forums thing? By the standards of a large company this has been a shockingly fast reversal. Someone thought this was a good idea, and whoever it was has been given something to think about.

I wonder how many people unsubbed over this. I know the cancellation page was supposedly down for a little while with all the traffic. It has to have been a noteworthy number, they didn't go back on this just because the forum thread got really long.

That's my take on it as well, enough people actually went "You know what, fuck you, you aren't getting any more of my money!".


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 09, 2010, 07:11:03 PM
, I saw what happened to Sarah Connor 1 & 2 as a kid. 

 :drill:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Merusk on July 09, 2010, 07:12:18 PM
Also, it's been what, a few days since they announced the whole real names on forums thing? By the standards of a large company this has been a shockingly fast reversal. Someone thought this was a good idea, and whoever it was has been given something to think about.

I wonder how many people unsubbed over this. I know the cancellation page was supposedly down for a little while with all the traffic. It has to have been a noteworthy number, they didn't go back on this just because the forum thread got really long.

I was the only one in my guild and group of 10+ year MMO friends who seemed to care, which both does and doesn't surprise me.  Even going by those here who were maintaining subs there were only, what, 3-4 of us who canceled?   It certainly might have been a large number, as 1% of 12mil players is 120k people, but I wonder how large a percentage it actually was.

My guess is that the # of folks that called Blizzard/ Activision mentioning Kotick and other Exec's wife and kids in detail (whose info was posted on that "Blizzard Employee Aggregate" blog) had more influence than anything else.  Not to say that the rest didn't have influence.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 09, 2010, 07:14:56 PM
They need your real name to make it so that your Blizzard persona is subjected to your Facebook.  It's really as simple as that.  As long as I have the option to not do it, and hackers can't see my real name, I'm good.  But I'm still kind of wary that it won't end up like that.

This logic confuses me somewhat. Blizzard already has or will have a huge chunk of players IDs to begin with when they pay through debit or credit cards. Using such sources to share with corporate friends has been done before and we as a society have tacitly condoned it. They won't get everyone unlike Real ID so I don't see what the point is in making a hamfisted move to capture everyone...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KtPiECJWro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KtPiECJWro)



They won't get everyone what?  Sorry, man.  I don't understand your post.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 09, 2010, 07:25:36 PM
I was the only one in my guild and group of 10+ year MMO friends who seemed to care, which both does and doesn't surprise me.  Even going by those here who were maintaining subs there were only, what, 3-4 of us who canceled?   It certainly might have been a large number, as 1% of 12mil players is 120k people, but I wonder how large a percentage it actually was.

My guess is that the # of folks that called Blizzard/ Activision mentioning Kotick and other Exec's wife and kids in detail (whose info was posted on that "Blizzard Employee Aggregate" blog) had more influence than anything else.  Not to say that the rest didn't have influence.

At a guess I'd think it was more because of Acti-Blizzard execs' personal information being broadcast. I mean, my interest in purchasing and resubbing for Cataclysm has dropped from quite likely down to fuckall, and then there's my wife and a friend of ours who would resub if we did, so that's 3 lost sales, but honestly, we're not subbed now, so we're the same as "losses to piracy" in being an unmeasurable number that can be reduced or inflated. I mean, I do hope they took a big cancellation hit (1%?) but I wouldn't bet on it being the primary motivation.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: waffel on July 09, 2010, 07:32:56 PM
Thanks to pipl I found a violent sex offender with my first, middle, and last name in the same state.   :ye_gods:

I prefer the gentle sex offenders, myself.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 09, 2010, 07:44:34 PM
At a guess I'd think it was more because of Acti-Blizzard execs' personal information being broadcast.

If so, that's even better. In any case, whoever over there thought this wasn't going to be *that* big a deal has learned something.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 09, 2010, 07:51:47 PM
It's not really as huge as you think. If at any point one of your MUD friends did something to you, people would be calling you stupid for going to see them. If Ingmar had at any point turned into a crazy man and hurt me, people would've been calling me stupid. It doesn't matter how well you knew your Fake Internet Friends, if it turned out you didn't know them as well as you thought, people call YOU stupid for trusting them.
It was a family of three MUD players I had known for four or five years at that point, a guy and his girlfriend who were friends with them and also lived in Edmonton, and another guy and gal from the US that went at the same time, plus I had full names, addresses, and notified my mother of all this.  Short of an absolute psycho who didn't care about being caught, my bases were pretty well covered.  It'd be less safe for me to go meet y'all, and I'm pretty sure you're okay by this point. :-P


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 09, 2010, 08:12:23 PM
It's not really as huge as you think. If at any point one of your MUD friends did something to you, people would be calling you stupid for going to see them. If Ingmar had at any point turned into a crazy man and hurt me, people would've been calling me stupid. It doesn't matter how well you knew your Fake Internet Friends, if it turned out you didn't know them as well as you thought, people call YOU stupid for trusting them.
It was a family of three MUD players I had known for four or five years at that point, a guy and his girlfriend who were friends with them and also lived in Edmonton, and another guy and gal from the US that went at the same time, plus I had full names, addresses, and notified my mother of all this.  Short of an absolute psycho who didn't care about being caught, my bases were pretty well covered.  It'd be less safe for me to go meet y'all, and I'm pretty sure you're okay by this point. :-P

They're MIDS, lanty. MIDS.

edit: I have it on good authority that Sjofn sleeps with a FREE TWO HANDED WEAPON under her pillow.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 09, 2010, 08:28:40 PM
I have some close friends to this day I met online via Xband, and that service was for the SNES so it was a while ago. The connections were all local area, so we'd have get-togethers of 6 or 8 teenage nerds to play lazer tag, some kids started dating, blah blah. Have also met IRL some friends I originally met in UO, but that was after five years of knowing them, and talking on webcam, and their kids knowing who I was, and getting baby pictures, and so forth. By then I just plain wasn't concerned.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sheepherder on July 09, 2010, 08:33:25 PM
I figure Sjofn has Ingmar captive, so he's harmless at this point, and she doesn't seem to be threatened by other people digging her man.  Probably because she has a strong whip hand.

 :heart:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 09, 2010, 08:41:35 PM
Also, it's been what, a few days since they announced the whole real names on forums thing? By the standards of a large company this has been a shockingly fast reversal. Someone thought this was a good idea, and whoever it was has been given something to think about.

I wonder how many people unsubbed over this. I know the cancellation page was supposedly down for a little while with all the traffic. It has to have been a noteworthy number, they didn't go back on this just because the forum thread got really long.

That's my take on it as well, enough people actually went "You know what, fuck you, you aren't getting any more of my money!".

Just looking at the thread alone, Righ and I both did, and that's two in a rather small population of people just discussing the topic. I can imagine the fallout was rather large given the response time. Possibly even more here unsubbed and didn't say so.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 09, 2010, 09:50:04 PM
Just looking at the thread alone, Righ and I both did, and that's two in a rather small population of people just discussing the topic. I can imagine the fallout was rather large given the response time. Possibly even more here unsubbed and didn't say so.
I did, too.  I'll probably get a time card and re-up on a month-by-month basis.  Now it will be a contest between my laziness and whether I really want to bother going to the corner store so I can log in.

edit: I have it on good authority that Sjofn sleeps with a FREE TWO HANDED WEAPON under her pillow.
This is why I would stalk Sjofn before Ingmar.  Did I mention I keep an axe by my desk after my break-in a few years ago?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sjofn on July 09, 2010, 11:05:03 PM
edit: I have it on good authority that Sjofn sleeps with a FREE TWO HANDED WEAPON under her pillow.
This is why I would stalk Sjofn before Ingmar.  Did I mention I keep an axe by my desk after my break-in a few years ago?

You're like my sister! When her husband isn't home (they both travel for work a lot) she sleeps with various melee weapons by her bed, because her collie, while awesome, is not exactly Mr. Protective.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Mattemeo on July 10, 2010, 05:18:39 AM
Just tried my real name out on Pipl, and unsurprisingly it only found a smattering of results, which on inspection turned out only 2 things relevant to me - my Facebook page (what a surprise) and my long defunct MySpace page, which I am going to nuke right now, if I can remember the password. I have a pretty rare surname so it's generally very easy to filter through anything that pertains to me.

I sleep with a bokken by my bed. I'm not particularly nervous about break-ins or anything, that's just where it is.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ironwood on July 10, 2010, 06:40:35 AM
All of this doesn't really change the fact that Cataclysm is a really poor expansion.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pantastic on July 10, 2010, 06:52:57 AM
EDIT: To provide what is perhaps an extreme example, if either Sjofn or I had been as risk-averse about social contact through the Internet as many (most?) people in this thread seem to be advocating, we'd never have met, gotten married, etc. Obviously I prefer the result I've got to that.

There is a HUGE difference between sharing real life information with someone you've already made a social connection with, and sharing it with everyone (the forum bit), or lots of people you don't have much control over (current RealID). And objecting to being forced to share personal information in order to use a feature that doesn't have a reason to use it (cross-realm chat) is not quite the same as never ever giving a real name to anyone anytime. I've met people IRL that I've met through a game too (didn't work out to a marriage, but wasn't a bad experience), that doesn't mean that I have no problem with attaching my RL name to game interactions in a way that I don't tightly control.

Why are you posting under the alias 'Ingmar' and not your real name then, if you're not risk averse about releasing your real name arbitrarily?

Quote
At the moment (pending the definitive answering of the RealID mod channel loophole issue) it isn't really accurate to say "Blizzard is exposing their customers to X risk".

Previously personal information would not be exposed unless I chose to give it to someone. Blizzard has now decided to expose it in game, unless I opt-out it's exposed to any malicious add-on, and exposure of personal information is tied to an in-game feature I would like to use. It really is accurate to say that Blizzard is exposing their customers to the risk, they're requiring it for game functions that don't need it, and exposing it to parts of the game that previously could not access personal information.

And how much more do you need to count for a definitive answer do you need for "the RealID mod channel loophole issue'? Mods can get Real ID, it's been demonstrated accidentally by DBM, and is still used internally by it. Mods can communicate information, it's done by too many of them to list. Denying that issue is like denying that a guy sitting in a room with a file of personal information and a cell phone can give the information from that file to anyone because you don't have video of him reading the info over his cell phone.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Numtini on July 10, 2010, 07:10:23 AM
Quote
For me, it was never, ever about keeping someone from putting the pieces together and tracking me down.  I have a long internet history as this name and anyone who chooses to do so could.  However, that internet history is attached to THIS NAME, not my real one which is my Professional moniker.  It would take more work to link the two than a simple google search, but I know it can be done.  However, that's more work than someone looking for my True Name in a professional capacity is likely to do.

 I'm not going for security-clearance-level of obfuscation, only random client level.  I don't want my game profile to pop up if you're looking for an Architectural opinion or design, I want my professional or public personal profile to do so, which it does.

Perfect description of my feelings. It's like putting the top up and locking the doors on a convertible. I know they can smash the windows or slash the top. It's not real protection, but it's enough protection to keep every one polite.

In terms of how quickly this was reversed, I don't think it has anything to do with cancellations or the gaming press, but has everything to do with it starting to hit the mainstream press which is hot hot hot for privacy violation stories. Next step was Senator Doingitforthechidlren.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Kail on July 10, 2010, 10:51:06 AM
In terms of how quickly this was reversed, I don't think it has anything to do with cancellations or the gaming press, but has everything to do with it starting to hit the mainstream press which is hot hot hot for privacy violation stories. Next step was Senator Doingitforthechidlren.

I may be paranoid here, but I keep getting the impression that this is intentional.  It's a sales technique, where if you tell someone something is $x, then when they refuse to buy it, tell them they can have it for $x/2, they're more likely to buy it than if you'd started at that price.

Blizzard has done this kind of thing enough that I'm wondering if it's accidental, or just their way of trying to make changes they know will be unpopular while still looking like "the company that listens to it's player base".


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 10, 2010, 11:07:43 AM
I had that thought as well.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 10, 2010, 11:39:00 AM
I honestly think they misunderestimated the reaction. People in MMOdom, here as much as anywhere, generally believe that where WoW is concerned outrage does not translate into actual cancellations.

This time it may have done. A couple of commentators on Tobold's blog have reported difficulty accessing the Account Management page as did someone at Something Awful and WUP mentions it above. If Account Management was that busy it could be that large numbers of people were genuinely leaving.

Quite a number of people have said something to the effect of the proposed RealID forum and addon changes and the fear of further development of the system forced them to choose between WoW and their career. Some of us may lose our jobs or face embarrassment at work if "outed" as WoW players. For us we will never now play a Blizzard game where our real names are on the account. We don't trust them not to monetise us.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pennilenko on July 10, 2010, 12:23:16 PM
Quite a number of people have said something to the effect of the proposed RealID forum and addon changes and the fear of further development of the system forced them to choose between WoW and their career. Some of us may lose our jobs or face embarrassment at work if "outed" as WoW players. For us we will never now play a Blizzard game where our real names are on the account. We don't trust them not to monetise us.

I shut down three accounts and phoned in to start the data deletion process from their system. There are too many options for entertainment out there to risk my privacy and professional reputation with a company making the decisions that blizzard is.

Edit: Also if they don't completely scrap their ideas for this type of a system and never go there again, I definitely can avoid ever purchasing a blizzard/activision product ever again.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sjofn on July 10, 2010, 03:13:28 PM
Why are you posting under the alias 'Ingmar' and not your real name then, if you're not risk averse about releasing your real name arbitrarily?

I totally missed the post where Ingmar said this was the greatest idea ever conceived and he's totally cool with his name being plastered everywhere. The post you are referring to was more, "It's fine to say ZOMG THERE ARE COMMON SENSE RULES TO PROTECT YOURSELF, but everyone breaks those." Which I am glad was said, since we had people cheerfully asserting victims of Internet Creeps were "stupid."


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 10, 2010, 03:43:08 PM
I honestly think they misunderestimated the reaction. People in MMOdom, here as much as anywhere, generally believe that where WoW is concerned outrage does not translate into actual cancellations.

I suspect that's likely, if about 5 people here cancelled in the first 20 pages of this thread, they had a 2000 page thread.  One of the papers the other day had a study about how your chance of divorce increases by 75% if one of your friends gets divorced, even the friend of a friend increases the chances by something like 35% (I forget the exact figures).  I'm not saying the cancellations would have hurt them that much short term, but long term it might have had a detectable impact.  So hats off to everyone who cancelled, now if only we could get people to stop pro-ordering games and buying any old crap in a box.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pantastic on July 10, 2010, 03:52:44 PM
To provide what is perhaps an extreme example, if either Sjofn or I had been as risk-averse about social contact through the Internet as many (most?) people in this thread seem to be advocating,
I totally missed the post where Ingmar said this was the greatest idea ever conceived and he's totally cool with his name being plastered everywhere. The post you are referring to was more, "It's fine to say ZOMG THERE ARE COMMON SENSE RULES TO PROTECT YOURSELF, but everyone breaks those." Which I am glad was said, since we had people cheerfully asserting victims of Internet Creeps were "stupid."

I totally missed the post where I said Ingmar said the complete nonsense you made up, can you quote it for me? Maybe my memory is going. When you 'paraphrase' my post into complete nonsense, and 'paraphrase' Ingmar's post into something else entirely, it doesn't result in any real discussion.

The post you are referring to from me included a quote from me of what Ingmar said and I objected to. Ingmar said specifically that if either he or Sjofn were as risk averse as many or most people in this thread, they wouldn't have met. But many or most of the people on this thread are objecting to having their name distributed widely and without control, practically no one has said that they are averse to giving out their name to someone online under any circumstances whatsoever. If he is not as risk-averse as people who object to sharing their name widely and without control, then he should have no problem sharing it widely and without control, and if he is averse to that risk, then he actually is as risk averse as most of the people on this thread, in contrast to what I quoted.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: AutomaticZen on July 10, 2010, 04:29:54 PM
Why are you posting under the alias 'Ingmar' and not your real name then, if you're not risk averse about releasing your real name arbitrarily?

In my case it's not that different for me.  Trust me, you'll get to me googling this forum handle faster than you will googling my real name.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Tale on July 10, 2010, 04:34:44 PM
I still don't get what this system is for. My real-life friends and relatives?

I think it's for making the WoW forums sit down and shut up. Turning it into a system is a distraction so the forum users spend their time arguing about what the system is for.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 10, 2010, 05:23:07 PM
If he is not as risk-averse as people who object to sharing their name widely and without control, then he should have no problem sharing it widely and without control, and if he is averse to that risk, then he actually is as risk averse as most of the people on this thread, in contrast to what I quoted.

That doesn't make sense, it's not black and white.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sjofn on July 10, 2010, 07:11:32 PM
If he is not as risk-averse as people who object to sharing their name widely and without control, then he should have no problem sharing it widely and without control, and if he is averse to that risk, then he actually is as risk averse as most of the people on this thread, in contrast to what I quoted.

That doesn't make sense, it's not black and white.

He seems to think the only risk-adverse people in the thread were talking about real names being exposed without permission, and that the post he quotes is isolated completely from any context whatsoever, not part of a conversation about how information is casually shared on places like this board and guild lines, making Real ID almost an afterthought for the people most likely to go wiggy and stalkery: people you think you know.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pantastic on July 10, 2010, 07:53:34 PM
He seems to think the only risk-adverse people in the thread were talking about real names being exposed without permission, and that the post he quotes is isolated completely from any context whatsoever, not part of a conversation about how information is casually shared on places like this board and guild lines, making Real ID almost an afterthought for the people most likely to go wiggy and stalkery: people you think you know.

Nope, you're wrong, what you've posted doesn't match the discussion that's been happening or what I think. If you or Ingmar want to discuss what I've said I'd be happy to engage in a conversation, but this passive-aggressive third person stuff really isn't going to produce anything interesting to anyone.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pantastic on July 10, 2010, 08:06:25 PM
That doesn't make sense, it's not black and white.

It makes perfect sense to me - from my reading of the thread, the majority of people objecting to risk were objecting to it in the context of un- or lightly- controlled release of information like Real ID and the forums change, not to releasing information in a controlled manner to a small number of people. Virtually no one objected to releasing personal information in a limited, controlled context like to individuals you've established a reasonable relationship with. So, the risk aversion demonstrated here was aversion only to a specific kind of reveal, not all relevations. By not posting under his name, it appears that he doesn't choose to engage in the sort of wide release of personal information that most people in this thread are averse to, which puts him in the same broad category.

Maybe you know something that I don't about the posters in this thread since I've just occasionally lurked here before now and don't pay that much attention to individuals, but I'm just responding based on what I've read here.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 10, 2010, 08:32:39 PM
I still don't get what this system is for. My real-life friends and relatives?

I think it's for making the WoW forums sit down and shut up. Turning it into a system is a distraction so the forum users spend their time arguing about what the system is for.

Yes, it's all and only about the forums.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 10, 2010, 09:09:17 PM
When these decisions get made, just follow the money to the right place.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Bzalthek on July 10, 2010, 09:47:32 PM
That doesn't make sense, it's not black and white.

It makes perfect sense to me - from my reading of the thread, the majority of people objecting to risk were objecting to it in the context of un- or lightly- controlled release of information like Real ID and the forums change, not to releasing information in a controlled manner to a small number of people. Virtually no one objected to releasing personal information in a limited, controlled context like to individuals you've established a reasonable relationship with. So, the risk aversion demonstrated here was aversion only to a specific kind of reveal, not all relevations. By not posting under his name, it appears that he doesn't choose to engage in the sort of wide release of personal information that most people in this thread are averse to, which puts him in the same broad category.

Maybe you know something that I don't about the posters in this thread since I've just occasionally lurked here before now and don't pay that much attention to individuals, but I'm just responding based on what I've read here.

What the fuck is wrong with you?  Bad! Where's a fucking rolled up newspaper when you need one?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Cadaverine on July 10, 2010, 10:01:44 PM
Tried three times to get a parental control email sent, and at this time, still do not have one.  At this point it's less hassle for me to cancel my accounts, and my Starcraft preorder, than jump through whatever hoops they've put up to keep people opted in to something that should be off by default.

I just want to whack foozles, and run the occasional BG in peace.  I don't give a shit about social networking, or any of their other bullshit excuses for this RealID idiocy.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 10, 2010, 11:27:07 PM
Pantastic: the post you were replying to was one I made after they had already backed out the forum change, and which had really nothing to do with that particular piece of the RealID discussion. But feel free to continue arguing about something I wasn't even talking about.

As far as why I keep using "Ingmar" here, I've actually thought about changing to the handle I use these days on most other forums, which is my real name (or most of it), I just haven't gotten around to bothering Trippy to change it. The only reason I'm Ingmar here is that my reading of these forums dates back to a time when I was using my DAOC character name as a handle simply for convenience. You can detect my vast concern that someone might know who I was from my posting of things directly from my flickr and youtube accounts, if you feel like digging through my post history.

He seems to think the only risk-adverse people in the thread were talking about real names being exposed without permission, and that the post he quotes is isolated completely from any context whatsoever, not part of a conversation about how information is casually shared on places like this board and guild lines, making Real ID almost an afterthought for the people most likely to go wiggy and stalkery: people you think you know.

Nope, you're wrong, what you've posted doesn't match the discussion that's been happening or what I think. If you or Ingmar want to discuss what I've said I'd be happy to engage in a conversation, but this passive-aggressive third person stuff really isn't going to produce anything interesting to anyone.

Sjofn is exactly right about the context I made that particular post in, as it happens.

EDIT: Anyway since this has now moved into the arguing-about-what-we-are-even-arguing-about stage, it is probably best to just move on.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 10, 2010, 11:32:45 PM
So, Righ/Signe -

Did you call them back?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: UnSub on July 11, 2010, 12:37:28 AM
Two things I see here:

1) Yes, it is great to see a turn around on this issue, but this only applies as far as the Blizzard forums. Real ID is still a going concern, complete with full real names.

2) Activision Blizzard still apparently don't get the concern over the issue.

First off: Facebook as a business model. Zuckerberg doesn't get the concern about privacy because he's a socially awkward nerd at heart who hacked university servers in order to set up a Hot or Not website that became Facebook. He sees privacy as an unnecessary barrier to looking at hot girls (and now, his business).

At its heart, Facebook is about following friends and people you'd like to see naked. Blizzard titles are about multiplayer competition. It's the competition mindset that should mean Real ID is ultra-conservative about privacy - it's not necessary about being murdered by someone you meet online (although it happens), it's about all the other ways that knowing who someone is when you are competing for resources. If they are around where you live and you are of the mindset, perhaps a phone call or locker room meeting can get you some loot you couldn't (or won't) otherwise earn.

And then there are the issues of people setting up fake Real ID accounts to harass people with. If anything, Real ID doesn't help fix the community, it just shifts the problems to other channels.

Social networking is a pretty new thing and a lot of people are scrambling to make cash out of it. If Blizzard had launched an online gamer version - proxy nic, ties in to your other Activision Blizzard titles, strong personal protections and lots of functionality - it'd be a major success. They've got the in-built player base and the market power to drive players in certain directions. They've got the money to do what they usually do: look at what exists, polish it up and improve it. However, they've gone the worst route possible on Real ID.

And as for optional: I think it was Lum who said that if Real ID is going to be Blizzard's communications platform of choice, it means they don't have to build anything but basic in-game communications functions in any titles moving forward. Real ID can remain optional, but it won't be hard for that to become "optional, but if you actually want to talk to people you'll need to use it".


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 11, 2010, 04:33:36 AM
That doesn't make sense, it's not black and white.

It makes perfect sense to me - from my reading of the thread, the majority of people objecting to risk were objecting to it in the context of un- or lightly- controlled release of information like Real ID and the forums change, not to releasing information in a controlled manner to a small number of people. Virtually no one objected to releasing personal information in a limited, controlled context like to individuals you've established a reasonable relationship with. So, the risk aversion demonstrated here was aversion only to a specific kind of reveal, not all relevations. By not posting under his name, it appears that he doesn't choose to engage in the sort of wide release of personal information that most people in this thread are averse to, which puts him in the same broad category.

Maybe you know something that I don't about the posters in this thread since I've just occasionally lurked here before now and don't pay that much attention to individuals, but I'm just responding based on what I've read here.

What the fuck is wrong with you?  Bad! Where's a fucking rolled up newspaper when you need one?

It's ironic given the subject but I believe it's because he thinks he is anonymous and can therefore be argumentative for no apparent reason.  I don't think anyone mentioned it yet, but being argumentative (or just being disbelieving of the risks involved) increases the chances of someone taking the time to track you down and probably puts you more at risk of someone messing with you, than just being slightly carefree with your real identity.  As Sheepherder's example should illustrate.  


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 11, 2010, 05:54:02 AM
As far as why I keep using "Ingmar" here, I've actually thought about changing to the handle I use these days on most other forums, which is my real name (or most of it), I just haven't gotten around to bothering Trippy to change it. The only reason I'm Ingmar here is that my reading of these forums dates back to a time when I was using my DAOC character name as a handle simply for convenience. You can detect my vast concern that someone might know who I was from my posting of things directly from my flickr and youtube accounts, if you feel like digging through my post history.
We've got like a billion people here that share your first name.  It'll get confusing.

That's the other odd thing about Blizzard's plan.  For people like me, a name provides an instant way to track me down.  For a more common name, you might end up with John Doe talking to John Doe with a peanut gallery of John Does.  A unique identifier keeps you, well, unique while providing one layer of abstraction to satisfy privacy concerns.

The main problem with their existing system is you can be any character on your account, and since you have fifty character slots, it's easy to be any name you want.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 11, 2010, 06:27:23 AM
Two things I see here:

1) Yes, it is great to see a turn around on this issue, but this only applies as far as the Blizzard forums. Real ID is still a going concern, complete with full real names.

2) Activision Blizzard still apparently don't get the concern over the issue.

First off: Facebook as a business model. Zuckerberg doesn't get the concern about privacy because he's a socially awkward nerd at heart who hacked university servers in order to set up a Hot or Not website that became Facebook. He sees privacy as an unnecessary barrier to looking at hot girls (and now, his business).

At its heart, Facebook is about following friends and people you'd like to see naked. Blizzard titles are about multiplayer competition. It's the competition mindset that should mean Real ID is ultra-conservative about privacy - it's not necessary about being murdered by someone you meet online (although it happens), it's about all the other ways that knowing who someone is when you are competing for resources. If they are around where you live and you are of the mindset, perhaps a phone call or locker room meeting can get you some loot you couldn't (or won't) otherwise earn.

And then there are the issues of people setting up fake Real ID accounts to harass people with. If anything, Real ID doesn't help fix the community, it just shifts the problems to other channels.

Social networking is a pretty new thing and a lot of people are scrambling to make cash out of it. If Blizzard had launched an online gamer version - proxy nic, ties in to your other Activision Blizzard titles, strong personal protections and lots of functionality - it'd be a major success. They've got the in-built player base and the market power to drive players in certain directions. They've got the money to do what they usually do: look at what exists, polish it up and improve it. However, they've gone the worst route possible on Real ID.

And as for optional: I think it was Lum who said that if Real ID is going to be Blizzard's communications platform of choice, it means they don't have to build anything but basic in-game communications functions in any titles moving forward. Real ID can remain optional, but it won't be hard for that to become "optional, but if you actually want to talk to people you'll need to use it".

This is the best post-mortem. Anyone going "OH NEAT I can resub now that the forums I never used are safe!" missed the point. RealID is still there and, to boot, is still being expanded.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: UnSub on July 11, 2010, 08:01:17 AM
I'm pretty sure you're okay by this point. :-P

Great! I'll organise my psych to get me a day pass and how about we all meet at the abandoned abattoir that's off the interstate. No-one will disturb us all there.

No-one.

 :grin:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 11, 2010, 08:20:14 AM
Grunk, anyone?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 11, 2010, 09:32:47 AM
I'm pretty sure you're okay by this point. :-P

Great! I'll organise my psych to get me a day pass and how about we all meet at the abandoned abattoir that's off the interstate. No-one will disturb us all there.

No-one.

 :grin:
Funny.  Except I know of a large network of people who seem to have not been abducted by them despite meeting in person, including Non.  Though maybe they've taken over all their identities and multi-box with proxies all day in some elaborate ruse to lure me into their trap...

:ye_gods:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: kildorn on July 11, 2010, 10:51:44 AM
I'm pretty sure you're okay by this point. :-P

Great! I'll organise my psych to get me a day pass and how about we all meet at the abandoned abattoir that's off the interstate. No-one will disturb us all there.

No-one.

 :grin:
Funny.  Except I know of a large network of people who seem to have not been abducted by them despite meeting in person, including Non.  Though maybe they've taken over all their identities and multi-box with proxies all day in some elaborate ruse to lure me into their trap...

:ye_gods:

Skin suit doubles. It's a plot by Ingmar to create a guild who specs the way he wants them to.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Outlawedprod on July 11, 2010, 11:52:45 AM
Clearly Acti-Blizz needs the social gamer to compete.
http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/10/google-secretly-invested-100-million-in-zynga-preparing-to-launch-google-games/

If that report is true then the amount of capital Zynga has is truly nuts.  May god have mercy upon our souls.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 11, 2010, 11:56:40 AM
Skin suit doubles. It's a plot by Ingmar to create a guild who specs the way he wants them to.
With my crazy specs it's no wonder I'm a priority target.  If you ever catch me raiding, you know they've gotten to me.  Tell my parents I love them.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 11, 2010, 01:42:40 PM
Quote
Hello,

Thank you for your email. If you would like us to proceed to the permanent deletion of your World of Warcraft account, please send us a cover letter by postal mail at the following address:

Blizzard Entertainment Europe
Billing Support
TSA 60 001
78143 Velizy Villacoublay Cedex
France

The cover letter will have to include confirmation of your deletion request along with:
- Your account name
- Your full real name
- Your full address including postal or zip code
- Your full email address (currently registered on the account)- The authentication key used to create the account
- Your secret question and answer
- A legible scan or photo of a piece of government-issued photo identification, such as a passport or driving license matching the first and last name of the registered account owner


Once the details have been received, we should be able to process your account deletion request.


I suspect the chances of my posting some government-issued photo identification to France are fairly low.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pennilenko on July 11, 2010, 02:02:53 PM

I suspect the chances of my posting some government-issued photo identification to France are fairly low.

I decided not to bother with all that. I just told the BBB that they are refusing to permanently delete my private information  after cancellation.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Kail on July 11, 2010, 03:32:21 PM
I suspect the chances of my posting some government-issued photo identification to France are fairly low.

The whole requirement is weird.  Making an actual physical counterfeit passport is kind of difficult, sure.  Counterfeitting a scan of a passport takes like two minutes, though.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: tmp on July 11, 2010, 08:00:10 PM
I suspect the chances of my posting some government-issued photo identification to France are fairly low.

The whole requirement is weird.  Making an actual physical counterfeit passport is kind of difficult, sure.  Counterfeitting a scan of a passport takes like two minutes, though.
It's probably effective at making 9 out of 10 people go "ah fuck, i'm not going to bother".


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 11, 2010, 09:06:38 PM
Going at it from the other direction, is there another way they could go about "Delete my information forever."?

The only thing I can think of is allowing you to fax the letter instead of mailing it, but I don't know the legal status of faxed documents outside the United States.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 12, 2010, 12:00:22 AM
I'd think that requiring you to send the paperwork to France is a little odd. Vivendi or not. I can't see why US residents couldn't do similar to a US address to confirm that yes indeed, you are really you. Requiring that you send all this to France just smacks of making it intentionally and unnecessarily more difficult.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 12, 2010, 12:05:20 AM
Well, I assumed it was for a European WoW account since Arthur's British (?).

If a US account requires me sending a letter to France, then yeah, that's :uhrr: of a high order.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 12, 2010, 01:02:05 AM
Well, I assumed it was for a European WoW account since Arthur's British (?).

Yeah, it's an EU account.  I'm querying it with them, there might be other avenues to explore, interesting that they sent me the real id statement, even though I haven't even mentioned real id.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: UnSub on July 12, 2010, 01:07:37 AM
Quote
Hello,

Thank you for your email. If you would like us to proceed to the permanent deletion of your World of Warcraft account, please send us a cover letter by postal mail at the following address:

Blizzard Entertainment Europe
Billing Support
TSA 60 001
78143 Velizy Villacoublay Cedex
France

The cover letter will have to include confirmation of your deletion request along with:
- Your account name
- Your full real name
- Your full address including postal or zip code
- Your full email address (currently registered on the account)- The authentication key used to create the account
- Your secret question and answer
- A legible scan or photo of a piece of government-issued photo identification, such as a passport or driving license matching the first and last name of the registered account owner


Once the details have been received, we should be able to process your account deletion request.


I suspect the chances of my posting some government-issued photo identification to France are fairly low.

Why is it easier for me to quit my job than remove my info from Blizzard's hands?

Also, why is Blizzard asking you send the exact same info that could be used to hijack your Blizzard account in written form? Again, I could cancel my credit card and it would be less hassle. Man, does Blizzard ever suck at customer service.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 12, 2010, 01:45:49 AM
Well, I assumed it was for a European WoW account since Arthur's British (?).

Yeah, it's an EU account.  I'm querying it with them, there might be other avenues to explore, interesting that they sent me the real id statement, even though I haven't even mentioned real id.

Ah, sorry. Didn't realise you were outside the US. Which realID statement?


Why is it easier for me to quit my job than remove my info from Blizzard's hands?

Also, why is Blizzard asking you send the exact same info that could be used to hijack your Blizzard account in written form? Again, I could cancel my credit card and it would be less hassle. Man, does Blizzard ever suck at customer service.

Well, in many ways it'd be "easier" for me to quit my job with a phone call than to go down the shops to buy some milk, so I'm not quite sure what your meaning is. As to why - apparently Blizz is seeing how quickly they can destroy the huge bank of goodwill that gamers hold towards them which was built up over many years. For imaginary Facebook money.

hm..
I wonder if you're automatically opted-in to RealID even if you're not subscribed to World of Warcraft? Will my real name show up on friends' lists and friends of friends' lists despite not having played in almost 2 years? We do have battle.net accounts for D2.

edit - sent them an email. We'll see what they say.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 12, 2010, 02:02:19 AM
Ah, sorry. Didn't realise you were outside the US. Which realID statement?


The fifth principle of the uk data protection act is that data is "Not kept for longer than is necessary", which would seem to apply considering I haven't used the account since 2005.  Also sending me the real id statement unprompted was a bit silly because they basically admitted it's relevant to a 5 year dead account.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 12, 2010, 02:21:13 AM
Why is it easier for me to quit my job than remove my info from Blizzard's hands?

Because your info is an asset from which they hope to make money.

I complained too. I asked them to remove my personal information. They sent me back a form email stating that they've decided not to go ahead with RealID for the forums.

That isn't what I asked for, I asked for deletion, a request with which they are legally obliged to comply. Next stop complaint to the Information Commission.

They are in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights in several aspects of their privacy policy. They've probably always been in breach but no one cared. Now that people care, even if we're a minority, operating in Europe is about to become more difficult and more expensive.

Edit: had to add this, from Matticus:

(http://www.worldofmatticus.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/realidpol.jpg)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 12, 2010, 02:48:48 AM
The fifth principle of the uk data protection act is that data is "Not kept for longer than is necessary", which would seem to apply considering I haven't used the account since 2005.  Also sending me the real id statement unprompted was a bit silly because they basically admitted it's relevant to a 5 year dead account.

The fact that they're attaching that message to all account deletion requests by default seals it for me. They didn't make this sudden change of plans because Kotick's wife was getting obscene phone calls from forum trolls named Penisfart or something. They made it because enough people were actually cancelling/deleting/whatever to strike a little fear into Blizzard.

I'm pleasantly surprised.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ironwood on July 12, 2010, 05:36:31 AM
Indeed.

My suprise, however, isn't all that large.  This is one that cuts both ways :  The Dicks don't want it because they'd stop being dicks and the decent people don't want it because it's a vile, vile violation that they believe WON'T remove the dicks.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 12, 2010, 05:59:10 AM
Quote
Thanks for the reply, I'd be grateful if you could escalate this request internally as providing more personal information to yourselves does seems to go against the spirit of the request, not to mention my understanding of logic and common sense.

As I reserve the right to make comment on this exchange with yourselves in a written form, I'd also be grateful for any official statement on why the extra requirements you have listed are not detailed on http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/about/privacy.html



Quote
Thank you for your email. Unfortunately this information is required to completely remove an account, if you are not able to provide or willing to do so we can not assist you further in this matter. Please also note that you can disable the Real ID feature ingame under the Interface options.

If you have any further questions don't hesitate to contact us again.

Kind Regards,

Blizzard Entertainment Europe
Andreas M.
Customer Support

Note a couple of things, at no point have I mentioned Real ID in any way.  Also despite asking for the request to be escalated, I've yet to receive a reply from anyone at Blizzard who appears willing to give their full name.

Now threatened them with a complaint to http://www.ico.gov.uk/ , I'm fully expecting the next refusal to be even shorter.  Fuck em, I was only messing with them to start with, now I will complain just to waste even more of their time.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 12, 2010, 06:37:00 AM
This is getting ridiculous on many levels. To get rid of information you have to send more information than you originally sent to set up the account? What?

We're not launching nuclear missles here. We shouldn't have to turn our keys at the same time just to fully delete an account.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 12, 2010, 08:52:06 AM
Fuck em, I was only messing with them to start with, now I will complain just to waste even more of their time.

I am entertained by these proceedings.  Carry on, sir.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 12, 2010, 08:56:01 AM
He sees privacy as an unnecessary barrier to looking at hot girls (and now, his business).

This delightful piece of cynicism inspired me to try my hand at parody:

http://stabbedup.blogspot.com/2010/07/nakedid.html


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Bzalthek on July 12, 2010, 09:03:12 AM
I wouldn't go pissing in yer boss's coffee anytime soon, just sayin'


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Kail on July 12, 2010, 09:22:36 AM
hm..
I wonder if you're automatically opted-in to RealID even if you're not subscribed to World of Warcraft? Will my real name show up on friends' lists and friends of friends' lists despite not having played in almost 2 years? We do have battle.net accounts for D2.

Idiot question here: is this really a concern?  My WoW account's been dead for something like a year, but I don't recall having an account wide Friends list or anything, and I didn't think they'd let people add themselves to a friends list without my logging in or having some other way to give an OK.  Or does RealID import friends lists from other stuff or something?  I don't see why this would be a problem, and would be mightily annoyed if I was wrong.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Soulflame on July 12, 2010, 09:27:35 AM
Your account can be hacked.  It still has all of your information on it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rendakor on July 12, 2010, 10:17:07 AM
The RealID friend changes were not retroactive; people who have you on their friends list as Azazel or Kail still only see Azazel or Kail. You have to exchange email addresses and approve any RealID friends in game. So, no, this is not a concern for people who haven't played since the RealID shit went live.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: DayDream on July 12, 2010, 10:46:21 AM
It's comforting to hear that simply never buying a new Blizzard game ever again will avoid the friend list aspect of this RealID bullshit.  I was hoping that my old WoW account make me deal with this.  Does anyone know how far RealID extends, and how it interacts with old information?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rendakor on July 12, 2010, 10:55:05 AM
RealID friends is currently the only implementation of RealID; there are no retroactive changes that would expose your personal information whatsoever. They canceled the RealID forum posting thing, but even if that went live it wasn't going to be retroactive.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 12, 2010, 11:10:54 AM
I am entertained by these proceedings.  Carry on, sir.

As expected.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on July 12, 2010, 11:34:53 AM
I like your approach: "Just cough once if someone at Blizzard is holding a gun to your head right now."


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 12, 2010, 11:35:33 AM
Given that we're all afraid that people are going to set out to grief us IRL over any little thing, and how easy it is to get personal information about people as demonstrated in this thread, obviously this is the only really safe way to stop that orc you've been teabagging from having your account deleted in a rage.  :why_so_serious:

Serious mode: It does seem like they need several pieces of information too many.

EDIT: I don't think I could actually supply my original activation code, and it doesn't seem to be available via my Battle.net account. All my other Blizzard games list the key in the 'manage game' page on Battle.net, but not WoW. Now granted, that's probably a plus from the 'stop someone who hacked your battle.net account from REALLY deleting you' standpoint, but I certainly didn't know I needed to save it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: caladein on July 12, 2010, 11:54:45 AM
Looking at the list: Name, Account Name, E-Mail, CD-Key, and Secret Question/Answer are all for "access" to the account if you don't have your password (which they don't ask for).  Full Address might just be for a sanity check on the Account's billing address.

Past that there's just ID scan/photo, which I will agree is just them being obtuse.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 12, 2010, 11:56:40 AM
I've decided I'm going to have lots of fun with this.  They respond within 24 hours each time which is impressive.  It doesn't take them long because they just cut and paste the same id requirements and ignore any unrelated questions.  But if I make the questions related to the documents I have to supply, I should be able to force them to create a custom reply just for me.  Tomorrow I'm going to reply that I might be willing to supply the photo id etc they ask for, but mention I'm not keen on them having an accurate photograph of me.  Hence logic dictates I should grow a beard, have the DVLA issue a new license based on the updated bearded photo and ask if I'm then allowed to shave once the account has been deleted.  I'll also ask if they will cover the fee of £20.00 of updating the license.

Edit spelling.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 12, 2010, 12:25:22 PM
 :rofl:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: waffel on July 12, 2010, 12:33:17 PM
 :popcorn:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 12, 2010, 02:23:05 PM
You brute, don't you know you're making life hell for blah blah wage slaves blah blah? At least that's what someone told be 6 pages ago or something. I forget who. I never did get a response to my bullshit email, I don't think.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 12, 2010, 03:02:28 PM
You're still sore over e-insults four days later?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pennilenko on July 12, 2010, 03:04:30 PM
You're still sore over e-insults four days later?

He has the memory of an elephant.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lum on July 12, 2010, 03:13:55 PM
Ironically, much more in this vein and Blizzard will save money by giving you a lifetime account, $40 in cash, and a signed promise to never contact them ever again.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 12, 2010, 03:14:44 PM
I just find the random waxing and waning of MA's scolding instinct interesting.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 12, 2010, 03:25:58 PM
I've decided I'm going to have lots of fun with this.  They respond within 24 hours each time which is impressive.  It doesn't take them long because they just cut and paste the same id requirements and ignore any unrelated questions.  But if I make the questions related to the documents I have to supply, I should be able to force them to create a custom reply just for me.  Tomorrow I'm going to reply that I might be willing to supply the photo id etc they ask for, but mention I'm not keen on them having an accurate photograph of me.  Hence logic dictates I should grow a bread, have the DVLA issue a new license based on the updated bearded photo and ask if I'm then allowed to shave once the account has been deleted.  I'll also ask if they will cover the fee of £20.00 of updating the license.

Tee hee.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 12, 2010, 03:27:28 PM
Hey, some of us found your email entertaining, so fuck his inconsistent refereeing. I think they addressed the issue of your idiot son posting with your name on it by nuking the forum changes. You need to follow it up by saying you don't want your idiot son linking the account which he uses to that Facebook thing since you use your facebook page to keep in contact with family in the UK and around the country, while he uses his like he uses his bedroom..


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Soln on July 12, 2010, 03:31:59 PM
Ironically, much more in this vein and Blizzard will save money by giving you a lifetime account, $40 in cash, and a signed promise to never contact them ever again.

until they go F2P, then angst


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Modern Angel on July 12, 2010, 03:36:22 PM
I'm not being inconsistent. I'm being tired. But, specifically, WUA: your post touted how hilariously douchebaggy you were being. When it was pointed out, way to be a douchebag, you sputtered about how you weren't being a douchebag. If being an asshole and wasting someone's time is the entire point don't be pissy about it being pointed out.

I'll maintain that if you're invested enough in the situation to harass some poor fucker (bearing in mind there are a million other yous out there) but not enough to just click the unsub button your priorities are skewed. You're mad about your privacy but you ain't that mad.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 12, 2010, 06:08:16 PM
You had a giant vaginal overraction to something that was specified as being reasonably "civil" while also being "demanding prick" in tone, and started crying about poor abused email jockeys. Fuck those guys, they can get trolled and like it. They don't give a fuck. They either paste form letters or kick things up a level to someone else. I've been the schmuck on the front line of listening to complaints before, as long as you don't have to talk to some simpleton live, it's the easiest job in the world.

You fucking listen and respond to my trolling, and you're not even getting paid!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 12, 2010, 06:23:58 PM
I wish I made 30k to get bitched at...seriously, I need a new job  :heartbreak:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pennilenko on July 12, 2010, 06:33:42 PM
You fucking listen and respond to my trolling, and you're not even getting paid!  :why_so_serious:

That was great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BpfydZdTE0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BpfydZdTE0&feature=related)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: proudft on July 12, 2010, 09:50:20 PM
Replyall ftw: http://www.wow.com/2010/07/12/esrb-unintentionally-exposes-email-addresses-of-people-who-filed/

 :why_so_serious:

Next up, the BBB sets the houses on fire of the people who called them.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 13, 2010, 12:16:39 AM
Tee hee.

Doh, dyslexia is a btich.

They solved the problem of avoiding sending me another generic reply by closing the query and sending a Customer Satisfaction Survey instead.  I've created a new email address, changed my account details to match and started the deletion request from scratch.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 13, 2010, 01:30:41 AM
I'm not being inconsistent. I'm being tired. But, specifically, WUA: your post touted how hilariously douchebaggy you were being. When it was pointed out, way to be a douchebag, you sputtered about how you weren't being a douchebag. If being an asshole and wasting someone's time is the entire point don't be pissy about it being pointed out.

I'll maintain that if you're invested enough in the situation to harass some poor fucker (bearing in mind there are a million other yous out there) but not enough to just click the unsub button your priorities are skewed. You're mad about your privacy but you ain't that mad.

The thing is, while WUA may have been dicking around to an extent, I thought it was a completely valid and feasable situation that he brought up, and I honestly wanted to see what Bliizzard's reaction would be to that scenario.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 13, 2010, 01:31:43 AM
The RealID friend changes were not retroactive; people who have you on their friends list as Azazel or Kail still only see Azazel or Kail. You have to exchange email addresses and approve any RealID friends in game. So, no, this is not a concern for people who haven't played since the RealID shit went live.

Good - thank you. I honestly didn't know how it would affect inactive accounts due to the "opt-out, not in" nature of the beast.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rendakor on July 13, 2010, 01:41:33 AM
No prob, glad I could help.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: fuser on July 13, 2010, 07:38:16 AM
Got an instant "we have received your email" response from blizzard over my PIPEDA request from July 8th. This morning I received a new email which states in three different places.

1) If you didn't find a resolution to your problem reply to this message and you will retain your place in queue.
2) You message is in queue to be responded to.
2) If you respond to this message you will create additional wait time

Seems like I'm getting two or three emails "did this resolve x" copy and pasted together. Wish I was getting a quicker and clearer response then Arthur.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 13, 2010, 07:39:27 AM
I'll spoiler all this as it may just be amusing to me, so it's easier to skip past.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 13, 2010, 09:48:15 AM
it may just be amusing to me

Actually we're all very entertained. Keep going and good luck!


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: slog on July 13, 2010, 10:26:10 AM
it may just be amusing to me

Actually we're all very entertained. Keep going and good luck!

I would go so far as to say this will be newsworthy for the major gaming news websites.  At least the ones that are not dependent on Vivendi for advertising.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 13, 2010, 01:43:51 PM
Wouldn't it require two driver's license changes and £40?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 13, 2010, 05:33:18 PM
The thing is under English law they're not entitled to demand a driver's licence at all.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/toolkit.pdf

For a subject access request all Arthur has to provide is name and address and any information he (ie Arthur) thinks is necessary to identify him (probably the account name). They are allowed to request a fee of £10. They then have 40 days to provide the information.

If they don't comply then the ICO has the following powers:

    * conduct assessments to check organisations are complying with the Act;
    * serve information notices requiring organisations to provide the Information Commissioner's Office with specified information within a certain time period;
    * serve enforcement notices and 'stop now' orders where there has been a breach of the Act, requiring organisations to take (or refrain from taking) specified steps in order to ensure they comply with the law;
    * prosecute those who commit criminal offences under the Act;
    * conduct audits to assess whether organisations processing of personal data follows good practice; and
    * report to Parliament on data protection issues of concern.
The ICO's new power to issue monetary penalties came into force on 6 April 2010, allowing the ICO to serve notices requiring organisations to pay up to £500,000 for serious breaches of the Data Protection Act.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 13, 2010, 05:36:18 PM
I thought Arthur was Irish?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 13, 2010, 05:39:15 PM
Oh maybe. It's likely that the Republic of Ireland has a similar legal framework to England and Wales as both sets of Data Protection laws are derived from EU law.

In any event I'm from England and I'm also complaining.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 13, 2010, 05:46:37 PM
Wouldn't it require two driver's license changes and £40?

Only if you think having your driving license photo look like you is important.  :ye_gods:

I thought Arthur was Irish?

Northern Irish, so I have dual nationality, my driving license and passport are British, I know I can apply for an Irish passport as well, not sure if I can have two valid driving licenses at the same time (a UK one and a Republic of Ireland one).



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 13, 2010, 06:02:13 PM
Aha, that would explain my confusion.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: slog on July 13, 2010, 07:22:37 PM
The thing is under English law they're not entitled to demand a driver's licence at all.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/toolkit.pdf

For a subject access request all Arthur has to provide is name and address and any information he (ie Arthur) thinks is necessary to identify him (probably the account name). They are allowed to request a fee of £10. They then have 40 days to provide the information.

If they don't comply then the ICO has the following powers:

    * conduct assessments to check organisations are complying with the Act;
    * serve information notices requiring organisations to provide the Information Commissioner's Office with specified information within a certain time period;
    * serve enforcement notices and 'stop now' orders where there has been a breach of the Act, requiring organisations to take (or refrain from taking) specified steps in order to ensure they comply with the law;
    * prosecute those who commit criminal offences under the Act;
    * conduct audits to assess whether organisations processing of personal data follows good practice; and
    * report to Parliament on data protection issues of concern.
The ICO's new power to issue monetary penalties came into force on 6 April 2010, allowing the ICO to serve notices requiring organisations to pay up to £500,000 for serious breaches of the Data Protection Act.

It would be appropriate in the next communication to inform them of the law and that they do not appear to be in compliance.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 13, 2010, 11:54:52 PM
My next step to ask them again to remove my data, explaining that the reversal of the decision about the forums is insufficient to allay my concerns.

The step after that will be to request that they delete my personal data and draw their attention to my limited right under the Data Protection Act to tell an individual or organisation to stop processing information about you if it is causing you unwarranted and substantial damage or distress.
http://www.ico.gov.uk/what_we_cover/data_protection/your_rights/preventing_processing_of_information.aspx

They don't have to comply but if they do refuse I'm entitled to go to court to have a magistrate decide to what extent it's reasonable for them to hold personal information about me.

Naturally I'll point them to the link so they can see for themselves the UK policy on this matter. Hopefully they'll simply remove me from their database.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Simond on July 14, 2010, 12:56:40 PM
This is why Read ID will never take off past Steam-esque friends lists - Actiblizzion may have hired the finest American ambulance-chasers to momentarially wave their plans at, but they seem to have neglected to consider that what they were proposing is hilariously illegal to about two-thirds of their Western subscriber base.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on July 14, 2010, 05:46:27 PM
Not illegal in red China (http://skunkpost.com/news.sp?newsId=2797)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Pezzle on July 14, 2010, 07:46:30 PM
Why would it be illegal in China?  They are only stealing your accounts and selling off your goods and information, not actually subbing for those accounts themselves, right?   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 15, 2010, 07:59:22 AM
Quote
Beijing is wary that its push for tighter information control might prove unpopular.

Hear that Blizzard? Even the freaking Chinese government is wary about doing what you are trying because it might prove excessive.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: fuser on July 15, 2010, 08:16:44 AM
Quote
Greetings,

I'll be assisting you today. I do apologize about the delays in response.

While I directly cannot release sensitive information over email, you may have it requested from custodianofrecords at blizzard (dot) com through the proper channels. I have also given you a link which describes Blizzard Entertainments privacy policy at length. I do hope this helps you with what you are trying to accomplish.

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/privacy.html?rhtml=y

Finally got a response a week later from a live person. Surprising bit is the email address, google has one hit on the address.

edit: obscured the address a bit


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 15, 2010, 10:06:35 AM
Had a response as well.

Disappointed to be honest, I was hoping they would go with the Beard idea.  I'll have to give a response some thought now as I wasn't expecting them to go all reasonable on me.
    


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 15, 2010, 10:26:16 AM
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuu


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on July 15, 2010, 10:49:10 AM
Disappointed to be honest, I was hoping they would go with the Beard idea.  I'll have to give a response some thought now as I wasn't expecting them to go all reasonable on me.
You could send them a DL with the photo and all the information blacked out.  Leave only the name.  Or maybe part of it.  Or maybe none of the name.  That could be fun, too.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Cadaverine on July 15, 2010, 10:53:34 AM
Send a photocopy of someone elses ID, with their info blacked out, then write your name in in crayon.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 15, 2010, 11:05:45 AM
I don't mind supply info they already have, or had at account creation.  I just wanted to highlight how silly it is to ask for extra information just to delete other information.  So I'm slightly miffed because I wanted to go down a silly route of saying ok, you think sending a bearded photo in is fine, how about I just draw one on and save £20 etc etc.  I'll ask if I can blank out date of birth etc, but I really wanted to work the picture below into it all.

(http://imgur.com/YoDZPs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/YoDZP.jpg)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 15, 2010, 11:22:40 AM
It seems pretty sure they devised these requirements without reference to their legal team. If you actually want deletion rather than just to mess them about you should have some legal right to force them to do so. If the ICO covers Northern Ireland then you can use the procedure I linked above.

Apart from anything else I've been playing Blizzard games since Warcraft 1. When I played Diablo 2 I had 8 accounts to mule all my stuff. They have my personal data with regard to more games that WoW, some of which I may have sent my personal details for 15+ years ago.

As for me I've already had one request for deletion ignored. I'll email another one, if that doesn't work then I'll send a registered mail letter giving formal 21 days notice of an assertion of my limited right under the Act. If they don't remove my data I'm prepared to start legal proceedings.

If it gets to that stage we'll have a relatively informal hearing where I will self-represent and explain that publication of data about my gaming habits could be injurious to my career with a pile of articles from google where such problems have occurred. They'll get to state their case as to why it's reasonable for them to hang on to my personal data after I have stopped playing their games. And the magistrate will decide.

At no stage will I need to provide photo ID. The courts don't ask for it. And as a matter of fact I don't own any, not having a current passport and having a driving licence that was issued before they came with photos.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 15, 2010, 11:58:39 PM
I thought they had closed the previous query on my other email account, they hadn't.  Spoilered reply below.

I didn't expect them to back down on the photo, the easy answer was just to agree with the nutter who wanted to grow a beard.  I'm reasonably confident that I could get them to back down on date of birth and place of birth as well.  As such, in my view, the requirements for deleting have shifted from being excessive to being understandable, given the number of hacked accounts it's sensible to have a further safeguard in place.  I'll probably just wipe my details now, they can keep my name as it's fortunately very common.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Stabs on July 16, 2010, 03:19:53 AM
Um, they haven't backed down on the photo:

Quote
The cover letter will have to include confirmation of your deletion request along with:
...
- A legible scan or photo of a piece of government-issued photo identification, such as a passport or driving license matching the first and last name of the registered account owner


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 16, 2010, 03:20:43 AM
http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=19381.msg821754#msg821754

Quote
Fortunately you won't have to grow a beard and shave it afterwards. I would like to offer you to send the copy of your legit ID with the photo covered


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 16, 2010, 05:55:24 AM
(http://imgur.com/YoDZPs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/YoDZP.jpg)

Is that Harry Potter?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: LK on July 16, 2010, 06:44:39 AM
No, it's Randy Clifford.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 16, 2010, 07:41:57 AM
Who?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: LK on July 16, 2010, 09:01:03 AM
Just some guy. Totally not Daniel Radcliffe. Totally. :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on July 16, 2010, 03:12:42 PM
http://kotaku.com/5589238/questions-and-answers-about-blizzards-real-id-plans

Yeah, yeah, it's Kotaku, sorry.

Some highlights:

- Opt-out for your name showing on friend-of-friend lists is coming
- they're working on some protections around RealID availability to addons but don't have any details to share yet
- No plans to let you use a handle instead of real name but they're not ruling it out for all time


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 16, 2010, 06:45:45 PM
If they keep backing off, I may even play their game again.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 16, 2010, 06:55:46 PM
They just need to add 'invisible' mode, and not link it to real names in any way.  Even the Facebook spam should read "*Character Name* has beaten Onyxia for the 500th time!  Join him!"  And there's got to be a way to turn that off in all circumstances.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 16, 2010, 07:18:32 PM
The common sense, the truth, which you speak, has been evident to all but Blizzard from the beginning moment of this clusterfuck.



Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: sickrubik on July 16, 2010, 08:25:46 PM
Even the Facebook spam should read "*Character Name* has beaten Onyxia for the 500th time!  Join him!" 

I'm not sure I quite understand what you are trying to get across here. If someone has you as a friend on facebook (the only way they will see you spam) is if they know your name already?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sjofn on July 16, 2010, 08:26:31 PM
  Even the Facebook spam should read "*Character Name* has beaten Onyxia for the 500th time!  Join him!" 

Do you actually use Facebook? Because that would display as:

Sjofn Lofnsdottir says:
Sofi has beaten Onyxia for the 500th time! Join her!

So that's not going to hide shit. Even worse, now my horrible Facebook friends know my character name!  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Musashi on July 16, 2010, 10:12:40 PM
Yea.  I know a lot of them do that.  But I thought I saw a game on there that only displayed your character name.  I could be wrong. 

As long as they have a way to disable anything from WoW landing on Facebook, I don't care.  Or better yet not associate your Facebook with b.net in the first place.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Sjofn on July 16, 2010, 10:26:28 PM
You can't post stuff to your wall anonymously is what I mean. If I post something, it's going to say "Sjofn Lofnsdottir: I'm posting bullshit!" If I elect to irritate my friends with WoW stuff, it's going to say Sjofn Lofnsdottir is harrassing them with WoW stuff. Because that's how Facebook itself works. Now obviously, this means any Facebook posting pretty much must remain optional (which it would, even the real Facebook games don't MAKE you post shit). Your suggestion that it must use your character name, because of how Facebook works, would have the amusing side effect of making it easier to connect "Sofi" to "Sjofn Lofnsdottir" though.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: ajax34i on July 24, 2010, 07:39:04 PM
Why doesn't Blizzard change its deletion policy to the following:

1.  If you want your account deleted, you must delete all your characters first.  Log into the game and delete all characters on the account.
2.  Wait a month to make sure you're not changing your mind.
3.  Use the Delete Account button under Account Services and we'll do it.

I mean, the reason for all their worry and need to make sure that it's YOU is related to the (emotional) value of the characters, not the account itself.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: waffel on July 26, 2010, 12:56:32 PM
I haven't played in 4 years. I'm not emotionally involved in something after 4 years of not seeing it (except maybe a really hot ex)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Mattemeo on July 28, 2010, 06:00:28 AM
Why doesn't Blizzard change its deletion policy to the following:
1.  If you want your account deleted, you must delete all your characters first.  Log into the game and delete all characters on the account.

This is the problem here. A fair few people who'd like to delete their account don't want to spend $15 resubbing to do so.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on July 31, 2010, 08:01:16 PM
Heh. I remember that EQ1 would routinely undelete characters that people had deleted in their emotional tizzies.

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on August 03, 2010, 09:47:45 PM
So today I got an official Blizzard Please Come Back We Reverted RealID mail.  I don't think I've ever had a please-come-back mail from Blizzard before.

All the links look legit.  Spoilered though and probably want to avoid clicking just in case.  I do like how they don't know who I am though.  Note they didn't actually address any of my concerns.  Their loss.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Nevermore on August 03, 2010, 09:50:36 PM
Huh.  I specifically spelled out the reason I canceled was due to Real ID as well but I haven't received any email like that.  Maybe because my paid time hasn't expired yet?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: proudft on August 03, 2010, 09:56:15 PM
I do like how they don't know who I am though. 

Wait, the email actually said Dear UNKNOWN? That's hilarious.  :grin:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Cadaverine on August 03, 2010, 10:36:22 PM
I got one as well, and it does address me as UNKNOWN.  A bit better than An_ex_player01, I suppose.

Gmail filter didn't kick it to my spam folder, which it's pretty good about doing with all the phishing emails I've gotten from "Blizzard", so it's probably legit.  I don't care enough to call their CS and find out for sure.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on August 03, 2010, 11:13:27 PM
I wouldn't trust it. (Lanty, kill the links in your post, please?) My "faction transfer" phishing email didn't get caught by gmail. At this point I wouldn't trust anything from "Blizzard".


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on August 04, 2010, 12:07:20 AM
No real reason for her to kill the links, even if they were bad mouseover links in the original email, they're just the regular Blizzard ones now since cut and paste only copies the basic text (although the thread ones will go nowhere because of the line breaks.)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Rasix on August 04, 2010, 12:19:39 AM
Based on the amount of scary links in the previous poster's sig (post will be deleted), I'm assuming spammer.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Wolf on August 04, 2010, 12:37:30 AM
Umm, the RealID thing? It's pretty awesome. I've been keeping in touch with some friends on different servers :)


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Selby on August 04, 2010, 06:14:53 AM
Umm, the RealID thing? It's pretty awesome. I've been keeping in touch with some friends on different servers :)
And I don't because I don't want people knowing my real name or when I'm on.  Although I didn't give Blizzard my real name... and now I can't change it.  Hooray?  No proof necessary to CREATE it, but requires a court order to CHANGE it...


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Lantyssa on August 04, 2010, 06:33:17 AM
No real reason for her to kill the links, even if they were bad mouseover links in the original email, they're just the regular Blizzard ones now since cut and paste only copies the basic text (although the thread ones will go nowhere because of the line breaks.)
Links in the e-mail were identical.  Also I've never gotten WoW spam and this places it a week after my sub lapsed.  I'm 99% sure it is legit.

The whole thing amuses me at this point, and I think this shows how unexpectedly hard they were hit by the move.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Reg on August 04, 2010, 06:50:47 AM
Perhaps now they'll realize that they aren't bullet proof and should try to avoid the kind of arrogant dickishness that made people cheer when EQ 1 lost it's popularity.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on August 04, 2010, 06:56:56 AM
Perhaps now they'll realize that they aren't bullet proof and should try to avoid the kind of arrogant dickishness that made people cheer when EQ 1 lost it's popularity.

No, they will just go about their business in a less hamfisted manner; see: slower indoctrination of their policies rather than sweeping changes.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Nevermore on August 04, 2010, 10:12:10 AM
Links in the e-mail were identical.  Also I've never gotten WoW spam and this places it a week after my sub lapsed.  I'm 99% sure it is legit.

The whole thing amuses me at this point, and I think this shows how unexpectedly hard they were hit by the move.

I got the email today.  Like Lantyssa, I never get those spam emails that other people seem to get so Blizzard must have really gotten a lot more backlash than they expected.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on August 04, 2010, 11:12:06 AM
No real reason for her to kill the links, even if they were bad mouseover links in the original email, they're just the regular Blizzard ones now since cut and paste only copies the basic text (although the thread ones will go nowhere because of the line breaks.)
Links in the e-mail were identical.  Also I've never gotten WoW spam and this places it a week after my sub lapsed.  I'm 99% sure it is legit.

The whole thing amuses me at this point, and I think this shows how unexpectedly hard they were hit by the move.

Well, even the people who like RealID in general didn't like the forum thing. As long as they stay away from that they'll probably be fine.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Merusk on August 04, 2010, 04:10:21 PM
I didn't get one, I feel so left out. I was subbed from day 1, too. :cry:

I wouldn't trust it. (Lanty, kill the links in your post, please?) My "faction transfer" phishing email didn't get caught by gmail. At this point I wouldn't trust anything from "Blizzard".

That one almost got me today.  Hovering over links made me realize it was fake.  After hearing of a few folks with authenticators getting hacked I'm almost willing to believe that Battle.net itself is compromised in some way so I thought they might have gotten me, too.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Morat20 on August 04, 2010, 04:16:44 PM
That one almost got me today.  Hovering over links made me realize it was fake.  After hearing of a few folks with authenticators getting hacked I'm almost willing to believe that Battle.net itself is compromised in some way so I thought they might have gotten me, too.
I've seen at least three or four phishing attempts blast past my junk folder and end up in my inbox. Pretty high-quality ones. I suspect the owners of www.battle-net-authenticator.com (http://www.cnn.com) (I believe that was the phising URL) are about to have their domain yanked.

It was something pretty close to the correct domain name. I wouldn't be surprised if WoW doesn't suffer a heavy number of hacked accounts over the next month or so. The email was well done, the URLs were close enough to fool someone hovering but not paying attention.

You'd need a sizeable brain-fart for someone tech-savvy to fall for it, but it was good enough that I logged into BattleNet to check out my account, just in case. Just, you know, not through that emails helpful links.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Ingmar on August 04, 2010, 04:28:03 PM
Now that one probably IS a link worthy of editing so it isn't clickable.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Morat20 on August 04, 2010, 06:05:02 PM
Thanks Rasix...I keep forgettig the forums automatically make links like that.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Vision on October 01, 2010, 03:58:40 AM
So, apparently now we can opt-out of Real ID.

Quote
We'd like to make you aware of the new Real ID-related privacy options we've introduced to Battle.net. These options provide Real ID users with additional tools for customizing the service based on their preferences, enabling the ability to opt in or out of the Real ID "Friends of Friends" and "Add Facebook Friends" features or to turn off Real ID altogether.

Real ID offers an optional, convenient way for keeping in touch with real-world friends you know and trust, whether they're playing World of Warcraft, StarCraft II, or one of our future games. The "Friends of Friends" and "Add Facebook Friends" features provide you with even more options to stay connected while you play by making it easier for real-life friends to locate each other on Battle.net. You can easily enable or disable these features through your Battle.net privacy settings by logging in to your Battle.net account at http://www.battle.net/.
http://i.wow.com/2010/09/30/real-id-and-battle-net-get-expanded-privacy-settings/3


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Reg on October 01, 2010, 04:03:08 AM
I guess they realized it was going to cost them a lot of expansion sales.  I know I was having second thoughts about it.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on October 01, 2010, 07:07:47 AM
I guess they realized it was going to cost them a lot of expansion sales.  I know I was having second thoughts about it.

The people voted with their wallets. Blizzard fully believed they could push us all around because they had us by the short hairs, but as usual that only goes for small, steady changes. When people cancelled their subs in record numbers after the release, that struck the first blow. Blizzard had to realize that with more implementation of this RealID/Facebook bullshit, they were shooting themselves in the foot for no gain.

Then, in pure Blizzard fashion, they assessed the real situation behind the rampant bitching and adapt to the correct business choice. They didn't continue to force a stupid and unpopular policy because of previous sunk costs/plans/egos when it wasn't panning out remotely with their customer base. This seems to be the lesson that other developers haven't learned when trying to compete with them in the market.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Dren on October 01, 2010, 07:15:36 AM
To be fair, you could always opt-out using parental controls on yourself.  It wasn't easy or easily understandable.  It looks like they are just making it easier and straightforward.  I've been using the parental controls on myself and my kids accounts from the time they implemented this.

I've only run into an issue in game once with this.  While trying to expand my base of people to do raids and pvp with, I had a request for my real id.  I explained that I don't do that and it wasn't a big issue.  I do mostly guild stuff so it doesn't affect me much, but I can see that other people might be asked for their real id much more often if they do PUG's and cross-guild activities.  This probably isn't game-quitting stuff, but annoying just the same.  It is probably on level with, "Do you have Vent?"


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Paelos on October 01, 2010, 07:47:35 AM
Absolutely you could opt-out that way, and I'm guessing many did.

Parental controls wasn't an option though. That was an intentional misuse of mechanics as a loophole to an unpopular policy change. Players will tell you when something is a terrible idea through action more than rampant screaming. My guess is Blizzard probably did a search after all the cancelled subs to see how many players suddenly had parental control changes on their accounts after the announcement.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: tmp on October 04, 2010, 10:25:08 PM

Then, in pure Blizzard fashion, they assessed the real situation behind the rampant bitching and adapt to the correct business choice. They didn't continue to force a stupid and unpopular policy because of previous sunk costs/plans/egos when it wasn't panning out remotely with their customer base. This seems to be the lesson that other developers haven't learned when trying to compete with them in the market.
Makes you wonder what a "cancel your sub for appearance tab!" campaign could achieve :grin:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on October 19, 2010, 03:10:28 AM
So anyway, my (and my wife's) gamecards expired last night while we were playing (Monday, about 7-8pm our time). So I figure, we'll take a night or two off before resubscribing, instead of resubscribing an hour before bed, or on a night when maintainence is going to hit an hour after we log on. I figure we'll get on again tomorrow night, or hell, even on Friday night/the weekend.

So, after 24 hours, I get an email:

Quote
Greetings,
We'd like to make sure you're aware of the new privacy options we've introduced to Battle.net®. These options provide Real ID users with additional tools for customizing the service based on their preferences.
Real ID offers an optional, convenient way for keeping in touch with real-world friends you know and trust, whether they're playing World of Warcraft®, StarCraft® II, or one of our future games. The "Friends of Friends" and "Add Facebook Friends" features provide you with even more options to stay connected while you play:
 
 Friends of Friends enables a player's Real ID friends to see the first and last names of his or her other Real ID friends. This makes it easier for players to locate mutual real-world friends on Battle.net and invite these friends to join their own Real ID friends list.

 The Add Facebook Friends search tool displays the first and last names of a player's Facebook friends who are also on Battle.net and allows the player to send these friends a Real ID friend request.

The purpose of these optional features is to help players merge and expand their social networks of trusted friends on Battle.net by making it easier to add real-life friends to their in-game friends lists. By default, these features are available and enabled on most Battle.net accounts, but you can easily opt out of any or all of them by managing your Battle.net privacy settings. To modify these settings:

1. Visit http://www.battle.net/.


2. Log in to your Battle.net account.


3. Select "Settings" at the top of the page, and then select "Communication Preferences."


4. Under Privacy, you will find three checkboxes:

The first box enables Real ID. Un-checking this box will completely disable Real ID on this Battle.net account, preventing you from using any Real ID features and from sending/receiving Real ID invites to/from other players. If you've previously used Real ID, un-checking the box will remove all connected Real ID friends and remove you from Real ID friends lists you may already be on.


The second box enables Friends of Friends. Un-checking this box will prevent your name (as listed on this Battle.net account) from being displayed to your Real ID friends' other Real ID friends.


The second box enables Friends of Friends. Un-checking this box will prevent your name (as listed on this Battle.net account) from being displayed to your Real ID friends' other Real ID friends.


If parental controls are enabled on the account, then these features are disabled by default. Your parent needs to log in to parental controls to modify these settings.
As mentioned above, Real ID is designed to enhance your social gaming experience on Battle.net. However, we recognize that some players would like to use certain aspects of Real ID while disabling other aspects, or would like to disable the service completely, so it was important to us to offer these additional options as soon as possible. To learn more about the features and benefits of Real ID, visit http://www.battle.net/realid/.


Sincerely,
Blizzard Entertainment

 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Hawkbit on October 19, 2010, 05:48:20 AM
I got that too, but I'm subbed.  I think it's a standard mailing to all subscribers.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Azazel on October 19, 2010, 08:49:02 PM
Did you get it yesterday?


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Hawkbit on October 19, 2010, 08:59:42 PM
Yep.


Title: Re: Real ID comes to WoW
Post by: Reg on October 20, 2010, 01:17:32 AM
I just got that same REALID email and I haven't been subscribed for over a year. It's funny how they just can't admit that it was a bad idea and move on.