Re: LOTRO Goes Free to Play : Sept 10 (Sept 8 for Cool Kids)

[Mrbloodworth]

DDO makes free players play on new servers. Quite sure old players/servers will be unmolested.

This is not correct. Anyone playing the US version of DDO can roll on any of the servers without spending any money. There are separate sub-based servers for European customers run by Codemasters but frankly since the US ones became free all of us Euros are rolling up our characters there, even those of us who want to pay subs.

I was already corrected by the dev posting above :)

No, it's Warner Brothers.

 

[01101010]

No, it's Warner Brothers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jTHNBKjMBU

[Stormwaltz]

I made a post about microtransactions on the official forums towards the end of April. Let's see what I had to say...

I've spent a great deal of time thinking about MT, and I've reached definite conclusions. They're as applicable to LotRO as they would be for any other persistent multiplayer game.

YES:

Cosmetics and "administrative" fees.

* Unique cosmetic outfit items
* Unique mounts, provided they have the same stats as other mounts
* Unique house decorations
* Unique PC titles
* Early or permanent (i.e. rent-free) access to a house
* Extra housing decoration hooks
* Extra bank space, character or account-based
* Extra house storage chests
* Extra cosmetic outfit tabs
* Extra character slots
* Character rename
* Character appearance change - everything but race, because race gates class access
* Character respec (in principle; this isn't useful in LotRO)
* Server transfers
* Custom named, globally accessible chat channel noted on an in-game list (yes, this means someone would have to pay for /glff)
* Private Kinship housing neighborhood (only your kinnies or those you invite can enter and claim houses)
* Kinship forum hosted on the official forums

NO:

Anything that can, in some way, provide a statistical advantage in PvE or PvP combat. This includes:

* Armor
* Weapons
* Crafting resources, especially rares
* Legendary Items and their associated parts and pieces
* XP buffs
* Hope buffs
* Food
* Healing and power pots
* Disease, poison, bleed, and fear pots
* Resurrection pots
* Extra pack space
* Early access to level- or quest-gated areas
* In-game currency, because if you can buy that, you can effectively buy nearly everything else on this list through the AH

As you can see, my feeling is that Turbine already steers a dangerous course in the DDO store by selling healing potions, magic items, and enhanced XP. But DDO is a F2P game now - the rules are different for them. As a subscription game, I'd hold LotRO to a higher standard of ethics.

[Sky]

That's a pretty good list.

[Mrbloodworth]

With the removal of rest XP, you can be sure XP potions are going to be in the store.

But I do like your list.

[Ingmar]

I kind of assume anything you can spend destiny points on will be purchasable. Or maybe they'll just sell the destiny points.

[kildorn]

I will admit that I went D: at the trait limitations. I cannot imagine playing a mid-high level character with 2 trait slots per type.

I'll also jump in on the "I did NOT see this coming" boat.

[Mrbloodworth]

For the record, apparently everything can also be earned in game through play. How, why and how many balls you will have to loose is unknown at this time. Perhaps some DDO players can tell us what it was like there, as a baseline?

[Morfiend]

For the record, apparently everything can also be earned in game through play. How, why and how many balls you will have to loose is unknown at this time. Perhaps some DDO players can tell us what it was like there, as a baseline?

My friend was a big DDO fan before it went F2P.

He said afterwards its almost impossible to play the game "for free". You need some of the stuff. Like potions, and also the "rest stones" inside dungeons.

[sam, an eggplant]

I like the way Turbine structured premium vs. free. It's very savvy. If you give them any money-- any money at all-- you get massive benefits. Getting people to take out their credit card in the first place is extremely difficult, and they clearly know that. This isn't their first ballgame. A smart move, all around.

[NiX]

Saw the thread title and thought "The fuck?" Didn't see this coming. Hopefully this doesn't hurt LOTRO, though I won't say it was the pinnacle of MMO communities, it has its fair share of idiots.

[HaemishM]

Didn't see it coming, but since I just canceled my sub this month, I'm all for it. Hell, I'm already up to level 54 with 1 character and would be considered a premium player. If I come back for free and see that the restrictions are too great, I haven't lost anything for trying it again and if it's not much different, then bonus!

[Morfiend]

Saw the thread title and thought "The fuck?" Didn't see this coming. Hopefully this doesn't hurt LOTRO, though I won't say it was the pinnacle of MMO communities, it has its fair share of idiots.

I am just pulling number out of my ass, but I would bet they lose 20% to 30% of their current subscribers. Take a big hit, and then slow gain that revenue back with the store items.

I am not a fan of this F2P model, so I voted with my wallet and just canceled.

[HaemishM]

F2P w/ Microtransactions is the future, Mr. Crotchety. 

[Signe]

Sounds okay to me since I can't stay interested in playing for long periods of time.  Saves me the bother of remembering to cancel when I realise I have logged in for two months.  I always have some fun when I play, but I never stay motivated for very long. 

[Morfiend]

F2P w/ Microtransactions is the future, Mr. Crotchety. 

Doesnt mean I have to like it. Also, we always say vote with your wallet. So I did.

I wouldnt mind if I could pay my monthly sub and get access to everything. But paying a sub and still having to pay MT makes me stabby.

[Soln]

this is not the announcement active players were waiting for


1. they still need to fix radiance gating and the legendary item grind.
2. the end game is not fun at all.  
3. the "epic story" is not so great (IMO at least).  
4. and the game world 35-50 is still in very bad need of updating.

there has been a helluva lot of attrition by vets who wanted more/diffferent stuff, and little hoppers who wanted moar WoW.  People have sensed the game is adrift, since there has been no roadmap communicated at all in 6+ months?  If this F2P introduces for pay advantages like Stormwaltz outlines then that is bad bad bad.  


LotRO is unique because it's supposed to Tolkien Online.  If this ends up catering to the hoppers and the ADD MT kiddies, then I and others will have SOE-NGE level rage.

[01101010]

F2P w/ Microtransactions is the future, Mr. Crotchety. 

"I gotta baaaaad feeling about this...."

I realize this is how things will go, but I just can't see whipping out my card to punch in an auth code every time I wanna play, which is how I feel its going to go down. Seems Asian methods are starting to take hold.

[Mrbloodworth]

F2P w/ Microtransactions is the future, Mr. Crotchety. 

Doesnt mean I have to like it. Also, we always say vote with your wallet. So I did.

I wouldnt mind if I could pay my monthly sub and get access to everything. But paying a sub and still having to pay MT makes me stabby.

What is a VIP? How will I become one?

      For a monthly fee, the VIP program offers the best value and the most options for players who like the convenience of having unlimited access to all game content and features. VIP players also receive 500 Turbine Points per month and exclusive benefits like priority access to servers, 5 character slots per server, a 20-slot wardrobe for cosmetic items, full customer service, and much more! You can upgrade to VIP at any time by visiting https://myaccount.turbine.com once LOTRO Free-to-Play is available. If you are already a subscriber, just maintain your active subscription to be automatically upgraded to VIP!

This isn't you?

[Soln]

PnP D&D was commoditized where you could pay-to-play by buying modules.  So MT fits D&D and thus DDO.

LotRO is based on a specific narrative.  I don't think MT fits.

Turbine opted to follow WoW for a while, now DDO.  I don't think they clearly know where the game is going.

[sam, an eggplant]

That's just it, nobody has to pay anything.

If you buy any turbine points at all you get premium status, which offers a bunch of advantages.

Beyond that, none of the microtransaction stuff is required to play, although some of it is obviously very attractive, like inventory space, character slots, the auction house, the two new classes, XP potions, etc. You can do without, but if you enjoy the game you'll probably want to pay for some of their crap. That's why it's a strong offering-- unlike other freeplay games like allods online, it's possible to play indefinitely without paying them anything at all. But you won't.

Turbine knows exactly where LOTRO was going-- into the toilet. It was on a slow but steady decline. Now it's a AAA freeplay MMO with an amazing license that could actually make some money with minimal live support while the A team works on hogwarts online. And who knows, maybe it'll explode. The public is nothing if not fickle.

[Cheddar]

I think this is a good change - as long as the future content is still high quality.  I am going to chomp at the bit if they do adventure packs a la DDO.

I mean, I am sure they will, but oh well.  I will adjust.

[Modern Angel]

This isn't you?

Yeah, I'm confused. What is it that I absolutely need which I don't get from the sub? And since the sub is supposed to go down to 10 bucks how is it not a good thing for me, as a sub/VIP?

[Ingmar]

That's just it, nobody has to pay anything.

If you buy any turbine points at all you get premium status, which offers a bunch of advantages.

Beyond that, none of the microtransaction stuff is required to play, although some of it is obviously very attractive, like inventory space, character slots, the auction house, the two new classes, XP potions, etc. You can do without, but if you enjoy the game you'll probably want to pay for some of their crap. That's why it's a strong offering-- unlike other freeplay games like allods online, it's possible to play indefinitely without paying them anything at all. But you won't.

The inventory space thing is borderline unplayable at 3 bags. Even the normal 5 isn't really enough space given the way LotRO drops work, 3 would just be brutal.

[Modern Angel]

They have the tech to make all those skirmish marks and stuff become just marks on your character sheet. Don't be surprised if it happens.

[Ingmar]

They have the tech to make all those skirmish marks and stuff become just marks on your character sheet. Don't be surprised if it happens.

That stuff isn't really the issue - it's the ridiculous recipe drops that clog your bags up very quickly if you're looting mobs, and the low stack limit on most vendor trash. The latter is fixable, the former would require a pretty big revamp to their crafting system. Right now just about *every* recipe is a drop. That's really, reallly annoying.

[Stormwaltz]

My biggest concern right now is probably the effect on the community. LotRO is known for having a player base that skews a bit older and more balanced between men and women. (That's likely the effect of the IP -- Tolkien nuts are more likely to try the game and stick with it.) F2P games tend to attract 18-25 year-olds who have more time than money.

I forsee requests for help being met with "lern2play n00b" and more garbled txt msg spk in chat.

Yes, yes. I'm an elitist. I appreciate that my requests for help actually generate helpful advice, that nearly all chatter I see is legible, that the majority of the PCs I see aren't named Dethjestor and Mistertee, and that I so frequently run into characters tagged as roleplaying.

[Mrbloodworth]

Turbine knows exactly where LOTRO was going-- into the toilet.

I can't say I have seen anything that backs this up. If you wanted the best experiences in MMO's you have had two options. Wow (loot rat race), or LOTRO (story immersion). Everything else is miles behind in terms of development, implementation, content, and polish.

It can't be that I'm just biased is it? No offence to Soln, but on the grand scale of things, the stuff hes talking about, is just nitpicks. most of it is in process of being addressed (revamps), some of it, just isn't the this game. I mean, end game? Uh... Wrong game.

[Ingmar]

Turbine knows exactly where LOTRO was going-- into the toilet.

I can't say I have seen anything that backs this up. If you wanted the best experiences in MMO's you have had two options. Wow (loot rat race), or LOTRO (story immersion). Everything else is miles behind in terms of development, implementation, content, and polish.

It can't be that I'm just biased is it?

I think you're missing his point, it isn't the quality of the game in question. The population was fairly clearly going down. Not a big WAR type decline, but still.

[caladein]

Yes, yes. I'm an elitist. I appreciate that my requests for help actually generate helpful advice, that nearly all chatter I see is legible, that the majority of the PCs I see aren't named Dethjestor and Mistertee, and that I so frequently run into characters tagged as roleplaying.

That's a perfectly reasonable stance to take, but on Turbine's end you can't go after that crowd (either intentionally or otherwise) with a AAA budget and offer them lifetime subs.  That's just shooting themselves-in-two-years in the foot.

I don't want to make the broader statement that you can't go after that crowd with a AAA budget at all, but I imagine that's likely true as well.

[Sjofn]

I am posting just to say that Stormwaltz's icon still makes me laugh every time I see it.

As for the actual topic, meh. I'm a lifer so it doesn't really affect me at all. I'm not even concerned about the comminity, as I don't put the LotRO community up on a pedestal, as they have plenty of dumb-asses. Just because people can sometimes spell there doesn't mean what they're spelling is something I want to read, especially how half of the chat I've seen consists of people patting themselves on the back for not playing WoW. Grant you, I have never been able to crack 30 in this goddamn game, so maybe it gets better at the higher levels, but man do people need to quit reassuring themselves they're not missing anything by playing LotRO instead of WoW. It's a lot of protesting too much.

[Mrbloodworth]

Turbine knows exactly where LOTRO was going-- into the toilet.

I can't say I have seen anything that backs this up. If you wanted the best experiences in MMO's you have had two options. Wow (loot rat race), or LOTRO (story immersion). Everything else is miles behind in terms of development, implementation, content, and polish.

It can't be that I'm just biased is it?

I think you're missing his point, it isn't the quality of the game in question. The population was fairly clearly going down. Not a big WAR type decline, but still.

I guess I did.

As for the actual topic, meh. I'm a lifer so it doesn't really affect me at all. I'm not even concerned about the comminity, as I don't put the LotRO community up on a pedestal, they have plenty of dumb-asses. Just because people can sometimes spell there doesn't mean what they're spelling is something I want to read, especially how half of the chat I've seen consists of people patting themselves on the back for not playing WoW. Grant you, I have never been able to crack 30 in this goddamn game, so maybe it gets better at the higher levels, but man do people need to quit reassuring themselves they're not missing anything by playing LotRO instead of WoW. It's a lot of protesting too much.

My local chat and everything but tells, guild and advice has been off since...forever.

[sam, an eggplant]

Yes, LOTRO is a quality title and has its devotees, but its subscription base was clearly declining over time. Nothing short of a major sea change like this one was going to change that.

As for the inventory, it would be incredibly annoying to play with less space, but it would be possible, unlike allods online and its perfume. If you don't buy perfume in allods, you basically can't play the endgame, and each one only lasts 30 minutes. That right there is the wrong way to do freeplay. The right way is to charge for cosmetic items, nice but unnecessary buffs and abilities, and (most importantly) content. Seems to me that Turbine gets it.

[Soln]

My biggest concern right now is probably the effect on the community. LotRO is known for having a player base that skews a bit older and more balanced between men and women. (That's likely the effect of the IP -- Tolkien nuts are more likely to try the game and stick with it.) F2P games tend to attract 18-25 year-olds who have more time than money.

I forsee requests for help being met with "lern2play n00b" and more garbled txt msg spk in chat.

Yes, yes. I'm an elitist. I appreciate that my requests for help actually generate helpful advice, that nearly all chatter I see is legible, that the majority of the PCs I see aren't named Dethjestor and Mistertee, and that I so frequently run into characters tagged as roleplaying.

I don't sound off anymore about games that much, but here's my equivalent two cents.

I've been on the Internet since '95 and I always valued MMO's for socializing.  I play them to meet and work with people.  I liked the forced grouping EQ and DAoC made you do because of the circumstances.  The challenge of the bugs and general design made communities happen.  LotRO was a great change for my wife and I because. as Storm says, it was really skewed toward more mature players.  Or people who just valued socializing more.  The game was not item, badge or first achievement focused.  You did stuff there because you wanted to.  And it always was possible to get groups and help on older, non end game content.  

With MoM and Legendary Items that changed.  The instance heavy and gated design that copied WoW pushed and kept people at the level cap and within a few zones.  People no longer had time to help or screw around -- everyone was grinding for radiance drops or later random tokens for drops.  That hasn't changed at all.  

I'm not against MT in any way, but I am really sceptical that F2P is going to help LotRO as a game long term.  

[Soln]

Turbine knows exactly where LOTRO was going-- into the toilet.

I can't say I have seen anything that backs this up. If you wanted the best experiences in MMO's you have had two options. Wow (loot rat race), or LOTRO (story immersion). Everything else is miles behind in terms of development, implementation, content, and polish.

It can't be that I'm just biased is it? No offence to Soln, but on the grand scale of things, the stuff hes talking about, is just nitpicks. most of it is in process of being addressed (revamps), some of it, just isn't the this game. I mean, end game? Uh... Wrong game.

Dunno. When your whole game becomes predicated on pushing players to the cap so they can begin to grind their LI's that's not a nitpick.   And there's zero evidence AFAIK they plan to change anything I said.