I love it when the bull wins

[UnSub]

Jose Tomas, matador, gets gored by a bull and requires nearly 10 litres of blood in transfusions.

I've got no issues with blood sports when the terms are equal for each side, but I don't think bullfighting meets that requirement.

[K9]

Isn't the chap fighting the bull armed only with a towel? Seems pretty fair to me.

[01101010]

I don't mind bull fighting if it is just man with sword and pillowcase vs bull. But they basically beat the shit outta the bull and stab the back of his neck with these hooked rods, thus wearing the bull down before the prissy even starts the "dance."

However, every so often you get shit like this happening and it makes me smile a bit.

[Tannhauser]

I've been to a bullfight.  Bull didn't seem to have a chance.  Struck me more as ritualized slaughter. 

[Signe]

My parents enjoyed bullfighting and were even friendly with a couple of famous matadors.  They knew a lot of celebs of some nefarious fame or another and almost always not of the kind most people wouldn't want around their kids.  Anyway, I hate it.  Hate, hate, hate.  It's sick.  Not just that they go stabby on the bull first, and then mostly toy with it before they kill it, but I hate that some sick person even thought up a thing like bullfighting.  I'm sorry but I think people who can enjoy a "sport" that is centered around watching an animal suffer only to be killed anyway, are also sick.  It's the same as dog fighting to me.  Steeplechase racing is up there, too.

Also, we don't even HAVE 10 litres of blood in our bodies, do we?   

[Nebu]

I've been to a bullfight.  Bull didn't seem to have a chance.  Struck me more as ritualized slaughter. 

This.  Bullfighting is a sport about as much as deer hunting with a high powered rifle is. 

It's a tradition, not a sport.  Just like ritualistic human sacrifice, only that went out of vogue. 

[rattran]

Also, we don't even HAVE 10 litres of blood in our bodies, do we?   

This calls for an experiment! Quick, round up a pile of bullfighting enthusiasts and some sharp things!

[Nebu]

Also, we don't even HAVE 10 litres of blood in our bodies, do we?   

Not typically.  Average human volume is ~ 5 liters, but it's not uncommon to pump more than that into someone with a puncture wound.  At least until the hole is plugged. 

[Strazos]

Perhaps they should swap it out for Minoan bull jumping.

[Righ]

This.  Bullfighting is a sport about as much as deer hunting with a high powered rifle is. 

It's a tradition, not a sport.  Just like ritualistic human sacrifice, only that went out of vogue. 

The matadors would agree with this. The bull is going to be killed, as a spectacle. They have no pretence of sport, it's about how artfully and daringly the matador can tire the bull before killing it with a sword. It's simultaneously fascinating art and revolting cruelty.

[Viin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqku0vDpbHY

[Tebonas]

Once a bull wins against all those odds and the fucking Matador survives? There really is no god.

[schild]

Righ, it's only cruelty if you care about bulls.

They're not cute animals. And they'll get turned into a great leather coat, for sure.

[Engels]

Let's not get too self-righteous about this, considering how we still allow veal meat in this country. Those bulls lead a blessed life in comparison to the average American cow.

[Tebonas]

Don't know about American cows, but around here there are rules how animals for consumptions have to be slaughtered, and that has to be painless and quick.

[01101010]

Let's not get too self-righteous about this, considering how we still allow veal meat in this country. Those bulls lead a blessed life in comparison to the average American cow.

hmm... Well I guess if you look at the bull's life up until he enters the ring and then gets stabbed in the neck repeatedly till he can barely manage to pick his head up for any length of time at which point he is taunted a few times while bleeding out before the "final" sword strike. If done right, the bull dies pretty quick - but that usually only happens with the best of the matadors. Other times the bull just gets skewered repeatedly. But yeah, blessed life - shit end. I guess your comparison sticks if you hold up the veal industry's practices to the entire life cycle, but that is not the topic at hand.

[Engels]

Let's not get too self-righteous about this, considering how we still allow veal meat in this country. Those bulls lead a blessed life in comparison to the average American cow.

I guess your comparison sticks if you hold up the veal industry's practices to the entire life cycle, but that is not the topic at hand.

The topic at hand, I believe, is the humane treatment of animals. Or is it just this one specific instance gets your goat?

Don't get me wrong, I was raised in Spain, and hated the stupid hick tradition of bullfighting as much as any Spaniard who wishes his country would evolve past this.

[Tebonas]

Isn't the topic at hand ritualistic killing of Animals?

[Signe]

Or we could talk about those perverted people who consider the torture, suffering and killing of animals "fun".

[Abagadro]

Veal tastes good, so there is no equivalency.

[Sheepherder]

Steak tastes better when penetrated by high carbon steel.

[NowhereMan]

I think the distinction being made is that people feel bad about how veal is treated but Spaniards that attend bullfighting enjoy the cruelty rather than feel bad and so it's clearly worse. Or did I misunderstand?

[Signe]

Anyone, really, not just Spaniards.

[climbjtree]

Did none of you watch Spartacus? That bull died an honorable death, immortalizing the name Navegante among bulls.

[Engels]

I'd also like to suggest that spectators at a bullfight are not there to enjoy the cruelty. The cruelty is irrefutably there, but that's not what's getting the public off. Its insensitivity coupled with a machismo culture, but its not thirsting after an animal's pain that draws the crowds.

[Ghambit]

I feel for the bull, but man... why's it ALWAYS the groin?  These guys wear cups right?   
As much poonanny as these matadors get, it's quite the irony they repeatedly get their nads inserted into via large cutaneous horn.  There's no point to it if you have to give up the twig 'n berries I say.
Then there's the matadors who get the anal-rectal version.      Ever seen that video? 

Strong like bull??  Nope.

[Xanthippe]

Bulls are assholes.  Especially bulls bred for bullfighting.

They would do to you what the matador, toreadors, and those other -dors do to them, given the chance first and then laugh about it later.

Steers are fine, cows are fine too.  Bulls?  I have no sympathy.

[Tebonas]

bulls bred for bullfighting.

Says it all. The humans are at fault here, so don't blame the bull for the psychosis trained into it.

[Xanthippe]

bulls bred for bullfighting.

Says it all. The humans are at fault here, so don't blame the bull for the psychosis trained into it.

Not really, because regular bulls are assholes too, and some of them will try to kill you (some of them won't but I wouldn't trust any of them).

[Dtrain]

But it's almost Roman.

You know, the guys who had such wonderful customs such as "Leave your unwanted child on a trash heap," and "If that other country has gold, invent an excuse to attack them." And who can forget such classics as, "Penis > Vagina," and "No way homo."

[Triforcer]

The only ethically consistent people in this debate are (a) vegans, or (b) people who will eat anything and don't care about animals fighting each other.

Everything in between is just an amusing exercise in "Oh noes, as I eat my ham/beef/duck triple stack AN ANIMAL THAT SEEMS CUTE IS BEING MISTREATED IN FRONT OF PEOPLE!  Join my crusade, which has no internal contradictions at all!"

[Trippy]

The only ethically consistent people in this debate are (a) vegans, or (b) people who will eat anything and don't care about animals fighting each other.

Vegans are hypocrites too cause they will kill living things for their food. "Fruitists" are okay though cause fruits are meant to be eaten by animals. Unfortunately you can't survive if you only eat fruit, but hey, at least they are consistent (until they cheat to survive).

[Teleku]

The only ethically consistent people in this debate are (a) vegans, or (b) people who will eat anything and don't care about animals fighting each other.

Vegans are hypocrites too cause they will kill living things for their food. "Fruitists" are okay though cause fruits are meant to be eaten by animals. Unfortunately you can't survive if you only eat fruit, but hey, at least they are consistent (until they cheat to survive).

Are you counting plants or something on the vegan thing?  Because their code isn't to kill animals, not "living things", since its impossible to take a step or even take a breath without killing "living things".

[Trippy]

Okay "living things" is probably a bit broad but why is okay for vegans to not be "cruel" to animals but cruel to plants? Huh? HUH!?

[Teleku]

Okay "living things" is probably a bit broad but why is okay for vegans to not be "cruel" to animals but cruel to plants? Huh? HUH!?

Trust me, I've worked with Vegans before.  I like making fun of them as much as the next person.  But I will say that they abide pretty strictly by the code.  You can't cause pain and suffering to a soy bean, but you can by killing a pig or exploiting a Cow for industrial milking.  They don't wear leather or use soap that in any way involves animals, etc.  While I love the taste of pain and death (mmmm steak), I can at least respect the devotion I see them show (especially if they aren't dicks to other non-vegans, like the majority I've known).  The only real argument amongst vegans is whether using Honey is wrong, or (for the even more crazy ones) if using anything that involves yeast is wrong.

I will say I became a little bit more sympathetic when on one drunken night, a vegan co-worker dragged us to a Vegan place in Oakland, and made me order a "Chicken Sandwich".  And I'll be damned if it wasn't one of the best tasting sandwiches I've EVER had.