Cataclysm Class Changes

[Rasix]

I may just have to level my druid now so I can mushroom bomb people. 

[Fordel]

Mother fucking Eclipse. 

[Ingmar]

Stampeding roar is a little random.

[Fordel]

Group sprint, that's situational, but useful.

[Ingmar]

It makes me think of Devona spamming "Charge!" in Guild Wars. Although I think they changed that out for a real elite finally.

[Minvaren]

So.. yet again.. druid buffs.

Fuck me I should just level one and get it over with. They're already at the top in DPS and tanking with minimal gear changes, now healing gets to use offensive abilities without losing healing prowess?  Fuck me.   

Nerf necros druids.

[Sjofn]

Druids are definitely one of those classes that people who don't play them think can do everything awesomely and effortlessly and zomg how can they not be nerfed already.

[Ingmar]

now healing gets to use offensive abilities without losing healing prowess?  Fuck me.

You mean just like shamans and priests?

[Sjofn]

SHUT UP IT'S DIFFERENT

[Rasix]

Tag teaming is lame if you're in the same room.

[Ironwood]

Um ?

[Fordel]

The sad/funny part is, they actually are conversing through the forums. They do this all the time in IRC or guild chat 


In other news, mages get bloodlust.

Time Warp (level 83): Grants a passive Haste effect much like Bloodlust or Heroism to party or raid members. It also temporarily increases the mage's own movement speed. Time Warp will be exclusive with Bloodlust and Heroism, meaning you can’t benefit from both if you’ve got the Exhaustion debuff, though the movement-speed increase will still work even when under the effects of Exhaustion.

 

[Gobbeldygook]

Calling it now: Paladins get brez.

[Mattemeo]

Additionally, we would like to update the Tree of Life model so that it feels more exciting when you do decide to go into that form. Our feeling is that druids rarely actually get to show off their armor, so it would be nice to have at least one spec that looked like a night elf or tauren (and soon troll or worgen) for most of the time.

This potential change pleases me to no end. I intend to roll a Worgen Resto Druid come Cataclysm, and my biggest barrier to doing so is worrying about Tree of Life form, which I pretty much hate (although only slightly less than Turkeybear form). Retaining some Worgenyness would definitely help, though we'll simply have to see what the models are like

[Nevermore]

The only redeeming factor of the tree is the awesome dance.

[Ingmar]

I like the /cry too!

[Lantyssa]

This is what I was trying to get at but doing a piss poor job of getting across.  I get that the Devs view an unused rune as potential damage that's 'wasted'.  What I'm not getting across I guess is I like always having a button to push every GCD.  I like the option of having a choice between which button to push depending on circumstance (procs are a good example, but not the only one).  By constraining runes in such a way that they aren't 'wasted' it could mean more standing around autoattacking, which I hate.  Feral Druids have that problem of having to stand around autoattacking while energy builds up.  It's the reason I've been playing my DK so much more than my Druid.  My worry is DKs are pushed to feeling more like a Rogue or Feral Druid when the reason I play one is because it currently doesn't feel like a Rogue or Feral Druid.  I have a Feral Druid and a Rogue already for when I want to play that way.

This is what I was trying to explain in IRC yesterday.  Even though I had Sjofn's rune-starvation problems when I tried Frost, in Blood it seems I have the same feeling as you.  I'm almost always able to hit the button when I want and I like having a bit in reserve to do so.

For our play-styles, this is going to be at best a wash, and potentially a big annoyance.  I'm glad someone gets it though.  I felt outnumbered yesterday.

Edit: Reading the Mage changes I see:

The Burnout talent will allow mages to cast spells using health when they run out of mana.

I'm curious where the idea comes from originally.  I coded something very similar as an Avatar level skill, by the same name, on my old MUD.  (It wasn't my idea, I just implemented it.)

[Simond]

In other news, mages get bloodlust.

Time Warp (level 83): Grants a passive Haste effect much like Bloodlust or Heroism to party or raid members. It also temporarily increases the mage's own movement speed. Time Warp will be exclusive with Bloodlust and Heroism, meaning you can’t benefit from both if you’ve got the Exhaustion debuff, though the movement-speed increase will still work even when under the effects of Exhaustion.

 

It's just a step to the left.

[Lantyssa]

jump

[ezrast]

Arc mages, resto shams, and resto druids got the shaft on masteries.

[Lakov_Sanite]

maybe mages but resto druids are fine. if it aint broke, dont fix it

[SurfD]

Arc mages, resto shams, and resto druids got the shaft on masteries.

That depends largely on where the "base level damage" for an arcane mage falls in their "percentage of total mana".  If arc mages are balanced around the assumption that they will always be sitting at 50% mana, and being higher then that is a damage increase, it will probably be a buff (assuming new mana management tools make it easier for them to stay at 75%+ mana).  If they are balanced around the idea that they will always be sitting at 90% mana, then they are getting the shaft.  Only time will tell.

[Sjofn]

This is what I was trying to explain in IRC yesterday.  Even though I had Sjofn's rune-starvation problems when I tried Frost, in Blood it seems I have the same feeling as you.  I'm almost always able to hit the button when I want and I like having a bit in reserve to do so.

Man, for the thousandth time, it isn't rune starvation. I am not rune starved. It's global cooldown lock, which is entirely different. Having all the runes and RP in the world doesn't mean anything if I don't have time to use it all up because I don't have the GCDs to spare, and if I start to flub the rotation that spends those resources as efficiently as possible, everything gets shot to hell. That's the problem Blizzard has with the current system and THAT is what they're trying to fix.

[Nonentity]

Posted Mage changes.

[K9]

Arc mages, resto shams, and resto druids got the shaft on masteries.

I actually quite like the Resto Shaman mastery. Its more interesting than either the Disc or Holy masteries for priest.

[Sjofn]

I kinda like the resto druid one in theory, I would have to see it in practice though.


EDIT: Also the tree is under-loved, it's various emotes are all comedy gold. My only problem with the form is I don't get their magnificent death animation as a druid, I turn back into an elf and die that way. :(

That said, I am not POUTRAGED the form is going away like some druids. They's crazy.

[ezrast]

That depends largely on where the "base level damage" for an arcane mage falls in their "percentage of total mana".  If arc mages are balanced around the assumption that they will always be sitting at 50% mana, and being higher then that is a damage increase, it will probably be a buff (assuming new mana management tools make it easier for them to stay at 75%+ mana).  If they are balanced around the idea that they will always be sitting at 90% mana, then they are getting the shaft.  Only time will tell.

Doesn't matter. Every other mastery rewards you for pressing the buttons you would be pressing anyway. Arc is the only dps that gets actively punished for pressing too many buttons. Kind of blows their whole "dps shouldn't have to manage mana" thing out of the water.

The druid one is the worst, though. If someone is near death a HoT is not the solution.

I actually quite like the Resto Shaman mastery. Its more interesting than either the Disc or Holy masteries for priest.

The shaman one strikes me as pretty meh. Every time somebody snipes a heal from you, even if you don't even actually overheal, all those mastery points on your gear are rendered useless.

Although I guess it could be an effort to improve shammy/druid tank healing, since they're a lot more likely to get the bonus consistently that way. Still, as a healer I don't want to feel like I screwed up a fight by keeping everyone's health too high.

[Fordel]

The druid one is the worst, though. If someone is near death a HoT is not the solution.

Not in today's environment, but it will be good in Cataclysm's.

[Ingmar]

The druid one is the worst, though. If someone is near death a HoT is not the solution.

Not in today's environment, but it will be good in Cataclysm's.

It looks good to me, speaking as a tank, as long as it works on HoTs that were already ticking when the person drops that low. A tank with a full stack of everything going drops to 30%, then they all tick much bigger suddenly, that's useful.

[caladein]

That depends largely on where the "base level damage" for an arcane mage falls in their "percentage of total mana".  If arc mages are balanced around the assumption that they will always be sitting at 50% mana, and being higher then that is a damage increase, it will probably be a buff (assuming new mana management tools make it easier for them to stay at 75%+ mana).  If they are balanced around the idea that they will always be sitting at 90% mana, then they are getting the shaft.  Only time will tell.

Doesn't matter. Every other mastery rewards you for pressing the buttons you would be pressing anyway. Arc is the only dps that gets actively punished for pressing too many buttons. Kind of blows their whole "dps shouldn't have to manage mana" thing out of the water.

That's the whole point.  Mana is going to be such a non-issue for Mages that they're removing Conjure Food/Water through 40.  What it will do is make whatever mana "management" that Arcane does something they do proactively to keep their mana high instead of reactively because they're just running a bit low.

Probably the best analogue is to compare Shadowfiend usage between Shadow and Disc/Holy Priests.  As Disc, I have to time my Shadowfiend just right so it gets Bloodlust and I can pop Hymn of Hope and get a decent chunk of mana back.  As Shadow, it's pretty much used on cooldown for extra damage.

[Lakov_Sanite]

That's a big assumption. They have said that mana at low levels won't be a problem which translates into gibberish when you're trying to connect that to high level fights.  I'm hesistant to guess so blatantly as you but I'm going to imagine out of combat mana regen is getting a big buff while in combat is going to play a lot tighter.

[K9]

Shamans are already fantastic tank healers; our throughput isn't quite as good as paladins, but it's not far behind. Beacon makes all the difference for paladins. The way I see it this effect helps smooth out spiky damage somewhat, it also adds natural granularity to heals, as they expand to fill needed roles. It offers nice ways to balance throughput and efficiency. Whether it will work in practice remains to be seen though.

[caladein]

That's a big assumption. They have said that mana at low levels won't be a problem which translates into gibberish when you're trying to connect that to high level fights.  I'm hesistant to guess so blatantly as you but I'm going to imagine out of combat mana regen is getting a big buff while in combat is going to play a lot tighter.

Oh, I'm sure a) there will be problems, b) there will still be "the best spec(s)" for any pure DPS class, and c) Arcane might not be one of them in part because of its Masteries.  That said, it's an interesting mechanic they're adding and Arcane has always been about interesting mechanics even though the spec alternated between completely overpowered and rubbish because of it.  Honestly, I'd prefer something interesting to a Mastery that just makes the numbers bigger (because as a healer I rarely care where my spec falls on the totem pole these days).

The mana as non-issue in part stems from the Conjuring changes and part from this bit from Ghostcrawler later in the Mage thread:

The intent behind Mana Adapt (Arcane mastery) is that Arcane currently has a pretty fun mana management game going, at least at relatively high level. We thought it would be fun to extend that concept even further to where Arcane mages that use the mechanics to keep their mana high would do higher dps. I find many of the predictions that Arcane is doomed in PvE based on the very limited information you have at the moment to be quite premature.

[ezrast]

I think that punishing the player for using their resources is bad design in general - the balance of arc against other classes/specs isn't something I'm arguing at all.

But of all the dps specs, arc seems like the worst to put this on. In its current incarnation, arc rewards you for voraciously burning through every scrap of mana you can get your hands on. That's why arc is one of the few casters for which mana management is still really important. Mana Adept might be an interesting way to introduce mana management as a concept to some other class, but encouraging mana conservation is completely counter to how arc plays.

Can't comment too much more in that regard because arc is the only spec I've dps'd with much. The first paragraph is the important bit though.

[Ingmar]

The only real flaw I see is their passives work at cross purposes right now - haste will make them spend mana faster, but they have an incentive to keep their mana pool higher.