iPad

[Righ]

Yes, Adobe kept Apple alive during a time when Jobs wanted to destroy Apple. You're surprised that he feels no allegiance to them?

[UnSub]

And yet now Jobs isn't even content with screwing Adobe (his attempts to screw Andrioid/Google are another matter entirely as discussed above), he's also going to dick with the thousands of app designers whose work doesn't conform to his ridiculous, draconian new NDA yet who helped sell units in droves? Does he have water on the brain?

Haven't read the rest of this thread, but if you look at any kind of unbiased history of Jobs you quickly realise that the man would screw over anyone or anything at all if the mood strikes him. Gates got a lot of bad press for how MS behaved, but Jobs is responsible for some of Apple's behaviour that could be considered the equivalent, especially when it comes to suppliers.

However, Jobs has the charisma and underdog status that Gates lacks, while Apple has been more creative as a company than MS. That probably explains the differences in public perception of the two men / companies to some extent.

[Tebonas]

Funnily enough Bill Gates seems to be a pretty nice guy and Jobs is a total dick.

Funny how public perception works.

[Mrbloodworth]

Outside of silly browser games

Yeah, no. For the record, I'm not even talking about games here, if you think games and video is all flash does, you are wrong. My last two companies were entirely flash based delivery systems, we are talking billions of dollars here in software, were our clients to switch to this or other devices like the iPad, we would have zero recourse to convert. Why flash you ask? Many reasons, streaming, compression, penetration, and security as well as enabling visuals. Java script can never be used like this due to it being the main cause of most of the worlds security issues. Flash has been vetted for over a decade in my industry.

Going back to java script is so 1996   . I only know of a few people who think its the most awesome thing ever, they are programmers, and not designers, artiest, content creators, ISD's, SME's, clients, End user experiences designers ETC...

God, for the past 5 years I have had this debate with people, we will not go back to the glory days of java script + IE filters, just stop it and evolve. Fuck, id rather use silver light for gods sake.

Because apple is awesome.  

As for video, YAY! HTML 5 <video> lets us use all those formats we opted out of for Flash again, hurray! Wheel, you are about to become invented again. To boot, I'm reading how <video> is so much simpler! So simple in fact, to work with all browsers you need a version of the video that works in each browser, SIMPLE! Forget using object and embed, that was to cumbersome! Silly flash and its silly redundancy! Make sure to code your video controls in java script to kids! Because the flash mark up was to big, and had to many fields, we opted to use java script for all those fields, AWESOME! So, all this is ok, because flash is also a fallback now. 

[naum]

Without the Adobe graphics tools, Apple wouldn't exist except as a shell.  The *only* thing that got them through the anterregnum without Jobs was the loyalty of the Graphics Arts community to the Adobe toolset and that toolset only existing for the Mac.

--Dave

Eh, maybe circa 2002 that was a true assertion.

Not today.

At any web developer conference I attend, it's predominately Macs (I'd say 80-90%) with Linux netooks/notebooks outnumbering even the few Windows machines. Granted, I don't do Windows development, and there it would be ~100% Win as the tools are only meant to run on MS platform.

I think for new college students, it's almost half Macs.

Just hang out in an Apple store and watch the machines fly off the shelves and the harried staff struggle to keep pace with hordes of customers willingly thrusting coin at them.

Windows remains the realm of choice for (a) hardcore gamers, (b) business/marketing sorts, (c) corporate desktops and (d) oldtimers clinging to the devil they know.

[naum]

As for video, YAY! HTML 5 <video> lets us use all those formats we opted out of for Flash again, hurray! Wheel, you are about to become invented again. To boot, I'm reading how <video> is so much simpler! So simple in fact, to work with all browsers you need a version of the video that works in each browser, SIMPLE! Forget using object and embed, that was to cumbersome! Silly flash and its silly redundancy! Make sure to code your video controls in java script to kids! Because the flash mark up was to big, and had to many fields, we opted to use java script for all those fields, AWESOME! So, all this is ok, because flash is also a fallback now. 

And running a performance hindered, crash prone, leaky abstraction of a virtual machine on top in lieu of native codecs is a better solution how?

[naum]

Going back to java script is so 1996   . I only know of a few people who think its the most awesome thing ever, they are programmers, and not designers, artiest, content creators, ISD's, SME's, clients, End user experiences designers ETC...

You confuse Javascript with the DOM. Javascript is a wonderfully expressive language, a LISP variant in the skin of C syntax.

And as has been pointed out, ActionScript is nothing but a proprietary flavor of JavaScript.

[Mattemeo]

Eh, maybe circa 2002 that was a true assertion.

Not today.

At any web developer conference I attend, it's predominately Macs (I'd say 80-90%) with Linux netooks/notebooks outnumbering even the few Windows machines. Granted, I don't do Windows development, and there it would be ~100% Win as the tools are only meant to run on MS platform.

I think for new college students, it's almost half Macs.

Just hang out in an Apple store and watch the machines fly off the shelves and the harried staff struggle to keep pace with hordes of customers willingly thrusting coin at them.

Windows remains the realm of choice for (a) hardcore gamers, (b) business/marketing sorts, (c) corporate desktops and (d) oldtimers clinging to the devil they know.

Ok, I can't help but feel you're trolling with this post. Seriously. Everything you just typed out. Wat.

[ahoythematey]

Eh, maybe circa 2002 that was a true assertion.

Not today.

At any web developer conference I attend, it's predominately Macs (I'd say 80-90%) with Linux netooks/notebooks outnumbering even the few Windows machines. Granted, I don't do Windows development, and there it would be ~100% Win as the tools are only meant to run on MS platform.

I think for new college students, it's almost half Macs.

Just hang out in an Apple store and watch the machines fly off the shelves and the harried staff struggle to keep pace with hordes of customers willingly thrusting coin at them.

Windows remains the realm of choice for (a) hardcore gamers, (b) business/marketing sorts, (c) corporate desktops and (d) oldtimers clinging to the devil they know.

While we're using anecdotes, I'd like to point out that I work with a large pool of people from different areas in "the real world," and the majority of their systems seem to be Dell laptops.

[Engels]

I'd like to point out that University of Washington, the largest school in the northwestern US, budget of 3.1 billion, considered 16th in the world's top universities in 2009, has no contract with Apple. It does, however, with Microsoft, and Dell, and gets discount for staff, faculty and student purchases. Hence everyone except for a few folks have Windows and most have Dell machines.

This means, of course, that Macs suck!

Hah hah, I won.

[naum]

iPad™ Wins Nobel Peace Prize

[Jeff Kelly]

Computer choice in the real world is always anectdotal. More often than not - at least in corporations - it's mandated more by corporate IT policy or purchasing deals than personal preference. My company allows use of Macs because our CEO refuses to use anything else. 

[Mrbloodworth]

As for video, YAY! HTML 5 <video> lets us use all those formats we opted out of for Flash again, hurray! Wheel, you are about to become invented again. To boot, I'm reading how <video> is so much simpler! So simple in fact, to work with all browsers you need a version of the video that works in each browser, SIMPLE! Forget using object and embed, that was to cumbersome! Silly flash and its silly redundancy! Make sure to code your video controls in java script to kids! Because the flash mark up was to big, and had to many fields, we opted to use java script for all those fields, AWESOME! So, all this is ok, because flash is also a fallback now. 

And running a performance hindered, crash prone, leaky abstraction of a virtual machine on top in lieu of native codecs is a better solution how?

You may wish to update your flash player, we are up to 10 now. Near universal adoption my be key here. Not sure about you, but i have grown tired of essentially writing websites two times for the different browsers (well, one that never seems to want to conform). So, not really looking forward to rendering out 3-4 versions of the same video on top of all that. Let alone attempting to do the interactivity flash can provide in yet another different way, that also doesn't seem possible to have all the same features.

There is no such thing as a native codex. With perhaps exception of windows media and quick time (that has some really useful features as is a great pre-flash format), to formats not supported by <video> as far as I know.

[Quinton]

This thought came up during a discussion I was having with a friend and my thinking about visual programming (from http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=19078.0 ):

If Apple didn't totally suck as far as development (rules that completely forbid it) and deployment (arbitrary and abusive approval process) goes, I think it'd be awesome to hack on a self-hosted "all ages" development environment for iPad -- sorta logo meets hypercard meets rocky's boots, or whatnot. Something that could be what BASIC was for me to kids like my niece and nephew (~3 and ~2 years old now).

Further, you'd surely want to be able to save, load, and share your creations without going through a publishing and approval process, which also would be impossible in Steve's walled garden. Sad.

[Righ]

 

[Trippy]

iPad's "ARM" A4 a PowerPC CPU in disguise?

http://www.technomicon.com/iPad_Saga_-_Week_11.html

[Engels]

Ya, saw that. Looking at the comments on that blogpost sorta suggest that the blogger don't know what he's about. They seemed convincing counter arguments to me, but I'm no expert. Then again, it seems just about EVERYONE has an 'informed' opinion on this matter.

[Venkman]

Without the Adobe graphics tools, Apple wouldn't exist except as a shell.  The *only* thing that got them through the anterregnum without Jobs was the loyalty of the Graphics Arts community to the Adobe toolset and that toolset only existing for the Mac.

--Dave

Monopoly is acting like a monopoly. Amazing.

But come on now. Since when does loyalty mean anything more than fiscal responsibility? People discussing Apple always seem to personify the participants as if there's some sort of broken family thing going on. It's amazing how "Apple" can shift the discussion from logic and business to love/hate relationships.

Adobe didn't support Apple out of the goodness of its heart. They have already boned Apple over the years. And vice versa. Gruber is spot on with his assessments.

And Apple, well, who's surprised really? They've been doing this since After Dark features and popular ResEdit hacks were scooped right into the OS with no credit to anyone. It was during the 90s when they stopped doing this that they reached rock bottom.

[Quinton]

iPad's "ARM" A4 a PowerPC CPU in disguise?

http://www.technomicon.com/iPad_Saga_-_Week_11.html

This is the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time.  It's like some insane apple fanboys still believe steve's boasts about how superior ppc was and are convinced it's back!

[Jeff Kelly]

It's sad that nobody in IT journalism or fanboyism has any clue about the embedded sector at all.

It's like a blind spot where ARM, really fucking big microprocessor factories and huge companies like Fujitsu or Hitachi don't exist and SoC, IP and VHDL must be some sort of internet thing.

The A4 is an ARM Cortex based architecture. Why? Because they use the same compiler toolchain and simulator like that for the iPhone which anybody with half a brain could have easily found out just by using Google.

I suppose they used an IP design and stripped out anything that wasn't necessary for the iPad (like the 25 different bus and serial interfaces usually found on those SoC designs), PA semi is not a chip design company in the way IT journalists understand the term chip design, they however have extensive experience in customizing IP designs and in embedded power management.

Apple however has strongly urged developers to use Xcode tools and the clang toolchain going forward (instead of GCC). This is s strong sign that they at least want the flexibility to change processor architectures in the future. A flexibility that clang (compiler frontend that uses LLVM as backend) offers should the need arise.

The OS itself is very portable already (runs on three different architectures that we know of, Intel x86, PowerPC and Arm).

[Trippy]

iPad printing solved:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/15/ipad-printing-solved/

[tgr]

"We must think of ways to rationalize to people why they should buy this"

http://www.epltalk.com/5-ways-the-apple-ipad-can-revolutionize-soccer/17791

My reaction is:
1) No. Just, no. Cute little games perhaps, but my kind of games? Nigga, please.
2) Maybe, but if you have a proper TV with a proper stereo sitting in the living room, will you really be bothering with a small screen and earphones (or otherwise tinny sound) instead? Nigga, please.
3) Not convinced.
4) Oh, nigga, please. It's unwieldy and too big to put in nigh-on any pocket I know of. No.
5) Maybe. But then again I usually do that kind of stuff while on a proper computer.

Only thing I would actually even consider buying one of these for, would be to preview pictures taken while out in the field, since my d300's viewscreen is a tad too small to judge if the picture was properly sharp and correctly exposed. I'm suspecting one of the alternative pads coming out in a while will be a better choice as I'm hoping for something with either a native CF reader or at least a native USB port to connect the cardreader to the pad for browsing.

[Mosesandstick]

A no to no.1? A touch-pad screen (doesn't have to be an iPad) would be perfect for games like football manager.

[wardeworth]

I saw iPad, as we know it is  develop for storing data, using internet , and many more.
There are mixed reviews for iPad but I think using iPhone or iPod Touch is more useful then iPad, It looks so big in little palm.
In iPad there is no external memory slot. You need an adapter if you want to connect it to your PC.]
In iPad No remote administration us there.

[Segoris]

A no to no.1? A touch-pad screen (doesn't have to be an iPad) would be perfect for games like football manager.

Maybe, but it is in no way "a fantastic gaming device. It’s like having an Xbox or Playstation in the palm of your hands" as he states.

[tgr]

A no to no.1? A touch-pad screen (doesn't have to be an iPad) would be perfect for games like football manager.

How? One-handed would suck, and the alternative is to sit crosslegged with it lying there, hunched over with it lying in the table, or connected to the docking station, at which point you might as well have a proper computer or console anyways?

I've seen the demonstrations where they showed a racing game on there, where you turn the car by leaning the ipad. Yes, it's nifty, but it's still a huge step backwards, for one simple reason. No force feedback. I've been a sim racer for quite a few years, and force feedback plays a huge part in allowing you to drive close to the edge, or recover a slide. Then again, that involves racing games where realism goes deeper than "oh look our race circuit/car looks exactly like the original! realism!". Very few actually do that, and judging by what I saw from that demonstration, that "racing game" isn't even on the same continent as proper racing sims.

[Sky]

It would be kind of cool for, say in an rpg or mmo, to have the ipad display the map or inventory screens. Wouldn't work with my funky sofa setup, but for desks (with a kickstand) it could be cool. Not worth buying one for, but if you already had it...

[MisterNoisy]

Only thing I would actually even consider buying one of these for, would be to preview pictures taken while out in the field, since my d300's viewscreen is a tad too small to judge if the picture was properly sharp and correctly exposed. I'm suspecting one of the alternative pads coming out in a while will be a better choice as I'm hoping for something with either a native CF reader or at least a native USB port to connect the cardreader to the pad for browsing.

A cheap netbook would probably be a better choice than the iPad even for that - similar screen size, more powerful, able to run image editing software, and has USB ports and/or card readers built-in.

[tgr]

True. Actually, I can buy an asus eee 1005 for 3000 NOK, and while it only has a 10.1" monitor, it still has 250GB, windows (or linux if I so choose), 1GB ram and none of the cockfaggery apple might be inclined to put on in the form of limitations today.

Like, oh I dunno, multitasking.

[KallDrexx]

Except it's not a touch interface, which is the whole point.

[Quinton]

Having spent some time using an ipad, I'm still unclear as to why the touch interface is superior for this class of device.

It's to large/heavy to hold comfortably for extended periods of time.

If you have to set it down to use it, it's awkward to use laying flat on a surface, so you need a case or a stand.

Typing in any of the above use cases is awkward.

The touch interface involves smearing the display and obscuring part of the interaction space with your hands.

For the majority of apps at this point, I'd rather use a laptop, and for $500 you can buy a pretty nice netbook (higher resolution display, more storage, faster cpu, etc).

[Mrbloodworth]

Having spent some time using an ipad, I'm still unclear as to why the touch interface is superior for this class of device.

[KallDrexx]

For the same reason I would rather use my Droid to browse the web at home rather than use my laptop, and the same reason I don't play PC games anymore.  Mice suck unless you have a good setup for them and a lot of times they can be a pain in the ass unless you are sitting up straight.  And don't get me started about the annoyance of trackpads on laptops.

Touch interfaces make things more natural to use really, especially when laying down.  I agree that they aren't the best to type on, and I"m not saying one method is superior to another in all situations.  However, for relaxing on the couch and surfing and light gaming I would take a touch tablet over a netbook or mouse driven device any day.  This is the same reason consoles have a lot of popularity over pc gaming.

I still won't get an iPad, I'd rather wait for a good Android tablet.  However, i do see some of the appeal of it.

[tgr]

I usually tend to think of mice as the superior control system, since it means I can sit there for an extended period of time in a relaxed pose.

I can see the attraction with touch, but I think it'll have to be bigger to be properly worthwhile. I'm thinking a 30-40" or so which can be mounted at an angle, but I wouldn't be surprised if that will prove to be more strenuous over time.

[KallDrexx]

I usually tend to think of mice as the superior control system, since it means I can sit there for an extended period of time in a relaxed pose.

I can see the attraction with touch, but I think it'll have to be bigger to be properly worthwhile. I'm thinking a 30-40" or so which can be mounted at an angle, but I wouldn't be surprised if that will prove to be more strenuous over time.

What's your setup though?  I specifically don't have a desk because I would rather be in the living room on the couch conversing with my roommates than to be stuck at a desk, and thus there is no pose I can use a mouse with that keeps the mouse level and doesn't make my wrist hurt.

Mind you, I use a mouse 8 hours a day at work so I know having the right pose makes a mouse work well.  However I don't have the luxury to use that pose while using my laptop at home.