SkyFall: James Bond #23

[NowhereMan]

[eldaec]

[Shannow]

oh ffs its a Bond movie not high art.

[eldaec]

Shitty writing is shitty writing no matter the genre.

Especially when this much talent goes into the rest of the film.

[NowhereMan]

Ultimately I'm not sure I agree with Eldeac's points on the 'higher' issues he has with resolutions and character arcs but yeah, this film had a lot stuff written in that genuinely doesn't make sense in the context of the 'New Bond' universe (and some which just doesn't make sense period).

[Yegolev]

This thread.

I enjoyed the movie.  For comparison, last week I watched Dracula: Dead And Loving It.

[K9]

oh ffs its a Bond movie not high art.

[cmlancas]

oh ffs its a Bond movie not high art.

Welcome to f13, you must be new here.   

[IainC]

oh ffs its a Bond movie not high art.

This is a dumb argument and people who make it are dumb.

There is no binary divide between art film and everything else. A film can be good in quantifiable ways - well shot, well acted, nicely paced with an internally consistent plot and still be a fun action movie.

Saying that it's ok to make shitty, nonsensical movies cos 'lol it's just an action movie' means that you get shitty action movies instead of good ones.

[Shannow]

I think your dumb for being so serious.   

[Ironwood]

oh ffs its a Bond movie not high art.

This is a dumb argument and people who make it are dumb.

There is no binary divide between art film and everything else. A film can be good in quantifiable ways - well shot, well acted, nicely paced with an internally consistent plot and still be a fun action movie.

Saying that it's ok to make shitty, nonsensical movies cos 'lol it's just an action movie' means that you get shitty action movies instead of good ones.

True Lies was good.

[Ingmar]

oh ffs its a Bond movie not high art.

This is a dumb argument and people who make it are dumb.

There is no binary divide between art film and everything else. A film can be good in quantifiable ways - well shot, well acted, nicely paced with an internally consistent plot and still be a fun action movie.

Saying that it's ok to make shitty, nonsensical movies cos 'lol it's just an action movie' means that you get shitty action movies instead of good ones.

 

[Venkman]

True Lies was good.

On that we agree 

I just watched it tonight, and it struck me that:

So, basically, he's become John McClane? :)

[IainC]

I think your dumb for being so serious.   

My dumb what?

[Venkman]

Seriousness? 

[eldaec]

oh ffs its a Bond movie not high art.

This is a dumb argument and people who make it are dumb.

There is no binary divide between art film and everything else. A film can be good in quantifiable ways - well shot, well acted, nicely paced with an internally consistent plot and still be a fun action movie.

Saying that it's ok to make shitty, nonsensical movies cos 'lol it's just an action movie' means that you get shitty action movies instead of good ones.

True Lies was good.

True Lies was better than every Bond film since the Living Daylights.

[shiznitz]

Except the interrogation scene and the stupid bedroom scene.

[Ironwood]

No, it was all good.

I also remember sitting in the theatre and thinking 'Well, I guess this is the new Bond', since the recent Bond forays were utter, utter shit.  Then Bourne came along and did the same thing and then Bond came along and took the crown back.

And then Quantum of Solace came out.

Yuck.

[Tannhauser]

I have softened A BIT on QoS since I re-watched it remembering that he is in full revenge mode for wassernames death.  Bourne sank the old Bond sci-fi Brosnan style; they had to reboot and now Bourne has pissed off and Bond is back as king of spy movies.  PS Daniel Craig, theres no crying in Bond movies!

Would give my left nut to have more Matt Damon Bourne movies.

[Ubvman]

I have softened A BIT on QoS since I re-watched it remembering that he is in full revenge mode for wassernames death.  Bourne sank the old Bond sci-fi Brosnan style; they had to reboot and now Bourne has pissed off and Bond is back as king of spy movies.  PS Daniel Craig, theres no crying in Bond movies!

Would give my left nut to have more Matt Damon Bourne movies.

Kind of liked the new one with Hawkeye in it though. Glad that they dropped shaky cam (or at least toned it down from nauseating). Matt's Bourne movies are ruined by that abominable shaky cam rubbish. Shaky cam needs to die in a car fire.

Note to Daniel Craig: Crazy depressed brooding Bond can just be annoying as aging smug lothario Bond (Moore's era). Don't start believe your own PR hype that you're the bestest Bond since sliced bread. You're still not half as good as Sir Sean at his best. 

[eldaec]

I agree, but that's not really Craig's fault.

The actor can't really be blamed for one dimensional scripting. You need to give him some material to be suave/smart with. He managed more than the lines deserved in his scenes with Moneypenny - honestly barring a couple of exchanges with Eva Green in Casino they were the only scenes I felt Craig has been given the opportunity to play Bond, rather than generic Jason-Statham-Grumpy-Punching-Man.

Daniel Craig is a considerably better actor than Sean Connery.

[Riggswolfe]

I have softened A BIT on QoS since I re-watched it remembering that he is in full revenge mode for wassernames death.  Bourne sank the old Bond sci-fi Brosnan style; they had to reboot and now Bourne has pissed off and Bond is back as king of spy movies.  PS Daniel Craig, theres no crying in Bond movies!

Would give my left nut to have more Matt Damon Bourne movies.

Kind of liked the new one with Hawkeye in it though. Glad that they dropped shaky cam (or at least toned it down from nauseating). Matt's Bourne movies are ruined by that abominable shaky cam rubbish. Shaky cam needs to die in a car fire.

This is why I can't get on board the Bourne bandwagon. Identity was pretty good. I have no idea what happened in the other movies and find the mere memory of them makes me foam at the mouth worse than Schild chained to a chair and forced to watch a Buffy marathon.

[eldaec]

Bourne movies, for me, were well directed action against three plots I can remember literally nothing about.

The last one without Bourne started me thinking my confusion was thinking Bourne was the good guy. Pretty sure they all work better if you root for the government team trying to catch him before kills more random people.

[Khaldun]

You know, this film cured me of paying too much attention to the collective opinion here. Because I thought it was damn good--and very much not morose, depressed Bond from *beginning to end*. In fact, that's the whole point: by the end, Bond is not depressed Bond or emo-Bond or anything of the sort. The whole thing is a very smart and fun commentary on Bond's entire history as a character. It's  very good Bond, easily in the top ten of the whole series, maybe the top five.

[Pennilenko]

You know, this film cured me of paying too much attention to the collective opinion here.

I agree with you. If you want to know the ins and outs of just about anything and everything gaming, this is the place for you. However if it happens to be about something like movies, this place can nerd rape the fun right the fuck out of just about anything.

[lamaros]

I thought the first half was great, but that poem onwards it wasn't a bond anymore and sucked.

Also the plot was even more absurd than any of the otherwise recent ones, which is saying something!

[Tannhauser]

You know, this film cured me of paying too much attention to the collective opinion here.

I agree with you. If you want to know the ins and outs of just about anything and everything gaming, this is the place for you. However if it happens to be about something like movies, this place can nerd rape the fun right the fuck out of just about anything.

Much like baseball, there's no crying for Bond.  Not.  Negotiable.  The Nerd Collective (tm) can only take so much outrageous fan disservice before it explodes out of their parents basement in a burst of Doritos, Mountain Dew and neckbeard.

[Tale]

Saw this on the weekend and was underwhelmed. Not worth seeing this in the cinema.

[Yegolev]

[UnSub]

Every scene that didn't contain Javier Bardem was just dull. Which was much too much of the movie.

[Tannhauser]

He was a great Bond villain.  He was evil, pitiful and magnetic.

[Ubvman]

He was a great Bond villain.  He was evil, pitiful and magnetic.

He was like all Bond villains in that he seemed to be more concerned setting up an entertaining, cunning and overly elaborate death killing super schemes rather than just simply  shooting Bond and M in the head when he had a chance to; but hey, that's the James Bond movies...

[eldaec]

They really need to give Christoph Waltz that gig sometime soon.

[calapine]

Late again, just seen it, so much to respond.

They really need to give Christoph Waltz that gig sometime soon.

Umm. As much as I like him, he isn't ketchup. You can't go 'movie sucks, let's put some waltz on it'.

Every scene that didn't contain Javier Bardem was just dull. Which was much too much of the movie.

Too harsh, but he was a highlight, yes.

He was a great Bond villain.  He was evil, pitiful and magnetic.

Yes, agree. Only parts he sucked where towards the end of the movie, when they tore him down/hannibal-lecter-ised him to set up the stage for Bond as hero.

And the disposable bond girl was one of the worst I have seen EVER. The woman could barely stand up straight without rocking back and forth, she must have been drunk for most of her shooting.

Umm no, she was great. I wish my accent was as sexy as hers. You are obviously gay.

I thought using the sex slave to get to the island was one of the Bond-like parts of the movie.  I viewed M's inglorious end as not a weak point but a strong one.  If she had confessed sorry feelings about sending agents to their death, it would have been a total cop out on the character as built from the previous movies.  This movie was about how death in the field is not glorious.  She learned it the hard way.  A fitting and excellent end to her character."

Thinking the same, but can't come up with a better way to express it, so just quoting you here.
-----

Overall, good Bond *drool*, good villain *drool*, good new moneypenny, good 'bondgirl' *drool* (dont like that term though)

Plot sucked, new Q sucked, film overall too film-y, too "contempory", too many 'winks towards the audience', probably would have been way better if they worked with a book as template to reign them in.

In the end the little bits made it enjoyable.

[Musashi]

It's like we all agree we finally have a Bond that doesn't suck, but can't agree on why.  I don't know if I really care to try to figure you nerds out on this one.  All I know is sans Quantum of Solace, everything about the new Bond is orders of magnitude better than anything since Roger Moore.  Maybe I'm setting the bar too low, but I don't expect every Bond film to have fantastic writing.  That's never been what they're about.  Go back and watch Dr. No.  After you get that 'underneath the mango tree' song out of your head, please come back here and tell me that's a great script.  It is however a script in which Bond is great.  And this Bond is great too.  That's what makes the film good.  We're so happy to have a Bond that doesn't suck, that we gave him a free pass on the last film.  Stop touching dicks and just enjoy it.