Simple questions. Simple answers. Complex questions. Flow charts.

[Zetor]

Yeah, shackling is very easy with the entryway approach, the mobs will stand and pewpew well out of generic faceroll range. It's still doable if the group insists on the little side rooms, just harder - on my priest I pop a shield on myself+the tank between waves and pop out of the alcove when they start running, shackle the farthest one, and fade. Even if the tank is slow, the worst thing that can happen to me is a single ranged hit, in my experience... which the shield will absorb, same with the first attack on the tank (while you're shackling).

[Lantyssa]

I would say LW is the worst of the ones I have done to level to max in WotLK by a pretty good margin.  I don't have a scribe, engineer, or alchemist close to the cap though.

Getting from Heavy Knothide to Borean Leather was a big pain.  I recall a similar problem with the end of the Old World skill ranks, but my DK was leveling her skills for Outland at the time and took care of that quickly enough.  Trying to get above 420 is an absolute pain.  It requires either a ton of Heavy Borean Leather, even more uncommon 'leathers' like Nerubian Chitin, or two Artic Fur, two Frozen Orbs, and two other uncommon leathers.  If you're rich no problem.

[Ingmar]

I would say LW is the worst of the ones I have done to level to max in WotLK by a pretty good margin.  I don't have a scribe, engineer, or alchemist close to the cap though.

Getting from Heavy Knothide to Borean Leather was a big pain.  I recall a similar problem with the end of the Old World skill ranks, but my DK was leveling her skills for Outland at the time and took care of that quickly enough.  Trying to get above 420 is an absolute pain.  It requires either a ton of Heavy Borean Leather, even more uncommon 'leathers' like Nerubian Chitin, or two Artic Fur, two Frozen Orbs, and two other uncommon leathers.  If you're rich no problem.

When you hit 430 that one recipe that's just heavy borean turns yellow, too.

[Lantyssa]

Thanks.  I'm three points away.  You've crushed my hopes.

[Gobbeldygook]

Is there some reason you want to be above 400 leatherworking?  You don't get any more personal benefit out of it past that.

[Ingmar]

Is there some reason you want to be above 400 leatherworking?  You don't get any more personal benefit out of it past that.

make number go up is good

That's really all there is to it for me.

[Jayce]

wow.com did a series of posts where they showed that the benefit from the crafting professions and gathering professions is approximately the same (worth the equivalent of about 60-70 attack power).  The crafting ones are just more flexible and let you choose the manifestation. 

[Selby]

Is there some reason you want to be above 400 leatherworking?  You don't get any more personal benefit out of it past that.

Making the new 245-264 patterns?  Our guild LW has all of the BoE patterns and most of the BoP ones.  He also gives us fail King's and the druid buff when none of them are with us.  But yeah, if you don't raid, run serious heroics, or make the cutting edge patterns, there really isn't much point to grinding your tradeskills above the 400ish mark where most give the easy personal benefits.

[Ingmar]

Yeah I forgot, I do want to make the failkings drums too.

[Selby]

Yeah I forgot, I do want to make the failkings drums too.

The only reason my shammy is working it past the 400 mark.  Luckily I have a dual-spec and I've gotten enough gear and arctic furs to easily enchant my pants and bracers for 2 sets of gear, which has helped with the skill-ups.  Won't last forever I am afraid.  I'm stockpiling heavy Borean Leather (you need like 800 to get to 450 from 405 or something, plus all the exotic chitins and dragonscales).  That's why I have 2 skinning farmers, just to get materials for the LW as they level to 80.

[Jeff Kelly]

Your talk about CCing the adds in H-HoR got me thinking.

I am a veteran player who started in US open beta. I have been playing until one year into BC and at one point was heavily into raiding. I resubbed agaain 4 or 5 months after Wrath was released mainly to play with a few close friends that moved to a different part of the country.

In the year since I have never even once seen anybody do CC in 5-Mans or Raids. I'm not kidding I just realized it yesterday when we were talking about HoR. I never noticed because I stopped playing my mage and as a healing priest usually don't do CC duty.

At some point during BC or wrath people simply seemd to stop doing CC altogether. Usually DPS just bombs the shit out of trash and/or bosses. Do you guys have similar experiences?

[SurfD]

IT started with wrath, and the MUCH easier heroics (comparatively).  In BC, most of the top end heroics could get down right nasty if you did not have great cc (usually because many of the mobs had VERY nasty abilities that wiped parties if too many of them went off at the same time).  Comparatively, WoLK heroics are a cakewalk.  As long as the tank holds aggro on everything, the mobs are pretty much no danger to anyone.

[Merusk]

Yeah, we've discussed that a few times in other threads as it's part of what makes the Icecrown 5-mans such a bitch.   Those instances require CC or at the very least interrupts on the trash for those not below 25-man gear.  However, people have gotten so used to facerolling places that they don't bother and wipe on simple shit like the "surprise" spawns in PoS.   A few interrupts on the female Vyrkul caster and watch for the hellfire and interrupt that.  Blammo, easy trash.  However I can count more wipes at that one spot than I can in all of my other heroic encounters.

The same is true of tanks who don't use CDs or healers who don't blow them because "it's only a heroic."  Yeah, but if your ass isn't going behind the rock to clear the debuff, you'd better be blowing that CD because I sure as hell can't heal through it.

I hope they bring back some of it with Cata.  Not to the riduculous "must have class x for instance y" levels of BC, but enough that it's not just another "gather 'em up, aoe them down" session.  Even when Heroic gear was "good" I heard my tank buddies complaining that's all they did. 

[SurfD]

They need to bring back the days of trash that could Mindcontroll someone who would then wreck the hell out of half your party before you even realised he was hostile.  Most mobs these days are usually just stuff like: oh, he is casting a heal, i could interupt it, but it wont matter in the long run because even if it goes off the mob he just healed is going to die in 6 seconds instead of 3.

[Zetor]

I wouldn't necessarily say that 'CC is a must' is a bad idea, but there's still a lot of CC-inequality even after most classes were given a 'proper' CC. Do I take the enh shaman who has a single humanoid-only cc usable every 45 sec or do I get the boomkin who has spammable hibernate + roots + cyclone / warlock with spammable banish + seduce/enslave + fear / ...? DK and warrior 'cc' would be offtanking I guess along with reliable interrupts.

Making mobs un-aoeable is a possibility, but I don't know how it could be done properly... stacking self-damage buff / enrage if the mob is hit with anything that's not a dot / incidental splash damage (from things like wandering plague) maybe?

[tkinnun0]

No, no, no. As a DPS I want to get my rotation on, move with the fight and not worry about lag or other "surprises".

Because while I am obviously a better than average player, I don't want to exclude worse than average players from the content I'm enjoying.

[Selby]

They need to bring back the days of trash that could Mindcontroll someone who would then wreck the hell out of half your party before you even realised he was hostile.

Halls of Stone has a few mobs that do that as does the 3 packs of trash in ToC.  The abilities are there, it's just that most people mow the mobs down so fast it doesn't matter.  The only time it's really an issue is if the tank is the one who gets MC'd and proceeds to rip through the healer.

At least they brought back the "one player will get MC'd" raid encounter in Lady Deathwhisper.  It's ridiculous how many people have to be told "don't kill the mind controlled person dammit!" after half the raid unleashes on that person.

[Lantyssa]

I got mind controlled yesterday in the Halls of Stone.  I had just started a hurricane, so all that really came of it was finishing the cast.  The bear was our only melee so the priest just healed through it.  I'm not sure anyone actually knew I had been controlled.

[Rendakor]

The Priestess mobs in 5 man ToC also have a mind-control.

[kildorn]

The Priestess mobs in 5 man ToC also have a mind-control.

And they always use it to burn Divine Hymn damnit.

[Rendakor]

Yea, mobs that MC have always been known to blow your biggest, longest cooldowns.

[kildorn]

Yea, mobs that MC have always been known to blow your biggest, longest cooldowns.

I will never forget the best part of strath:

Your druid getting MC'd and hearthing to moonglade.

[Ingmar]

Yea, mobs that MC have always been known to blow your biggest, longest cooldowns.

I will never forget the best part of strath:

Your druid getting MC'd and hearthing to moonglade.

Stupid baroness always burned my shield wall. 

[Draegan]

Started up my DK again with a 3700 GS.  Anyone want to give some advice how to use the badges I'm accumulating?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Mal%27Ganis&cn=Rhavinous

Not sure which is the best way to go.

[Rasix]

Tier 9 gloves and shoulders aren't expensive (30 emblems a piece) and yours are pretty bad.  I'd start there. Also a new shiny ring is only 35 emblems.  If you plan on playing this character for any period of time, save your frost emblems for a cloak.  There are also some nice frost emblem trinkets you could get instead of a cloak.

[caladein]

Triumph: Gloves/Shoulders/Ring are nice.  Maybe a Sigil if you don't like the Emblem of Frost one.

Frost: The Belt has been the biggest bang-for-the-buck on both my 80s but the Cloak might also be a good idea.  If the Sigil is good for your spec though, I'd grab it first.

[Selby]

Anyone want to give some advice how to use the badges I'm accumulating?

If you don't raid now but want to, chain heroics as many as you can to get the entire T9 set and get whatever pieces you can to fill out what doesn't drop from the 219-232 heroics.  I just got done gearing my shammy up for ICC-10 doing this, and her gear isn't *the* best but it is a long way from heroics and quest rewards.

[Draegan]

I'd like to raid, but I'm going to have to PUG it.  So T9 Gloves and shoulders then?  I thought as much.

Edit:
Why the T9 ones instead of these: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47696

Nevermind, check rawr stuff.

edit2:
I'm also running an Unholy aoe spec.. no reaping.  Hows blood these days? Better for my gear level?

Edit3:
Moar upgrades for me.  2pc T9 now.  I'm thinking my next upgrade via Triumph badges will be my chest piece.

[Rasix]

Well, if you go blood, there's a definite change in stat priorities.

[Arinon]

I just did this exact thing with my DK about a month ago.  I'd get T9 legs + chest next as the 4-set is really good for UH spec.  Then either ring or the 245 helm.  Frost Badge cloak for sure if you get to that point.

For DPSing 5 mans I found UH kicks the shit out of Blood.  Seems to remain about equal in raids so it's more about which raid buff or debuff you bring.  I find there are already a lot of Blood DKs out there (I guess UH has been buffed back to competance recently?) and the UH debuff really helps them out.

[Nebu]

Since this is the "simple questions" thread, I'll ask a very simple question.  You guys talk about tier gear all the time.  Do you mean arena gear, honor gear, or what?   I've been playing this game off and on for years and I still have no idea what this T9 stuff refers to.

No laughing!

[K9]

PvE 5-piece sets are the tier loot.

T7 (200) - Naxx 10 and Heroism Badges
T7.5 (213) - Naxx 25 and Valour Badges
T8 (219) - Ulduar 10
T8.5 (226) - Ulduar 25 and Conquest Badges
T9 (232) - Triumph Badges
T9.25 (245) - Triumph Badges + ToC25 /ToGC10 Trophy
T9.5 (258) - ToGC25 chest loot
T10 - Frost Emblems
T10.25 - T10 item + Drop from ICC25/ICC10hc
T10.5 - T10.25 item + Drop from ICC25hc

List with all of them (and the PvP sets...)

[Nebu]

Thanks for that.  I guess it's obvious that I haven't experienced any of the endgame content beyond dailies and WG/BG's. 

[caladein]

Tn is going to refer to PvE sets from raids.  Arena gear (and therefore down the line, honor gear) is usually referred to by its prefix: Deadly, Furious, Wrathful, etc.

With there being multiple levels of gear per "Tier" and the increased awareness of item levels the Tier designations have become a bit less meaningful but they're still useful shorthand.

[Arinon]

Speaking of the arena sets.  Can I assume that pretty much all the PvP gear gets bumped up in ilevel once the put in Season 8 or is that staggered somehow?

Meaning I will be looking at 245 PvP gear for honour+arena points and low rating requirements?  Does this apply to the offset pieces you buy with pure honour as well?  Those suckers are 245 now so they go to what 264?