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Author Topic: The 'Build Me A PC' Thread  (Read 222558 times)
Trippy
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Reply #2625 on: June 17, 2017, 12:06:59 AM

The Raven can fit a 83mm tall cooler so you aren't that limited in your choices for that case. The ML08 is 58mm, though.

That Zalman cooler reminds me too much of the infamous "Golden Orb" cooler. The NH-L9i should also fit the ML08 and is a better cooler than the Zalman CNPS2X.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #2626 on: June 17, 2017, 12:40:18 AM

I see where my confusion was coming from, the Raven RVZ02 is identical to the Milo ML08, except for front trim and the optional handle, but the newer Raven RVZ03 is almost an inch thicker (and with more LED's, for $60 more).

I have some more time to consider it before I pull the trigger, but even 3.75" was going to be a strain for a padded backpack designed for a 2.75" thick gaming laptop. Was the Golden Orb infamous in a bad way?

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
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Reply #2627 on: June 17, 2017, 01:00:29 AM

Dave Newegg has the XOTIC MSI Nightblade on sale, would be a good starting point, then upgrade along the way. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=1VK-01MZ-00014
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #2628 on: June 17, 2017, 01:12:39 AM

Dave Newegg has the XOTIC MSI Nightblade on sale, would be a good starting point, then upgrade along the way. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=1VK-01MZ-00014
I am not a big fan of the lunchbox/toaster oven format, and if I am returning to PC Master Race (rather than another gaming laptop) I am going whole hog and building my own from parts. Just off the top of my head I can get twice the ram (at half again the speed), and an SSD that is both much larger and much faster, for about the same total price.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
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Reply #2629 on: June 17, 2017, 10:13:46 AM

Was the Golden Orb infamous in a bad way?
Performance was middling but it was cheap and looked nice -- i.e. it was "style over substance". It also had a mounting defect early on that would cause it to crush AMD CPUs that didn't have integrated heat-spreaders like the early Athlons.
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Reply #2630 on: June 17, 2017, 01:19:07 PM

After my pump seized up after a 5 day vacation, I'm never doing liquid cooling again. Fuck all that. Good fans keep shit just as goddamn cool.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #2631 on: June 18, 2017, 06:57:30 AM

Was the Golden Orb infamous in a bad way?
Performance was middling but it was cheap and looked nice -- i.e. it was "style over substance". It also had a mounting defect early on that would cause it to crush AMD CPUs that didn't have integrated heat-spreaders like the early Athlons.

Yeah, after looking some more, the claimed 120W capability of the Zalman is wildly overstated, with real testing showing it struggling with 65 watts (and it is not all copper, they plated aluminum fins). It looks like I might be able to fit a GeminII M4 (59mm), if I avoid excessively tall ram sticks (it's a 120mm fan), which could handle 95W with headroom to spare. There's also a Silverstone (AR06) that looks like it was designed precisely for the Raven 2/Milo 8 (but it's freaking blue and white).

I don't normally care that much about the look of the internals, but the huge open grates on these cases mean they'd be really visible.

--Dave

EDIT: The plus side of coolers that butt right up against the grates is that they'd be drawing in outside air, and since these cases have no provision for case fans, that's a good thing.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 07:39:01 AM by MahrinSkel »

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Reply #2632 on: June 18, 2017, 04:08:40 PM

Zalman never adjusted when people started moving from the flower look to the towers with pipes under them thing. You cannot go wrong with Noctua for air cooling it seems to me. Def a price premium but its worth it for the peace of mind and quiet fans.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
MahrinSkel
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Reply #2633 on: June 19, 2017, 07:34:02 AM

Noctua doesn't seem to make a model between 37mm and 65mm, the 37mm model is only rated for 65 watts and the 65mm is too big for the case. I can use the 3.6GHz, or underclock the 4.2GHz, if necessary, but I would like the option of full speed. In the end, I may buy both the Noctua L9I and the GeminII M4, and go the underclocking route if the GeminII won't fit (shaving pennies on cooling is never a good plan).

--Dave

Edit: Reading up on build reports for the case, anything under 55mm for a CPU cooler requires bastardizing some kind of case fan cooling together, as they wind up just stirring hot air. Blower style video cards are recommended for the same reason (GPU is compartmentalized from the rest of the system).
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 10:22:02 AM by MahrinSkel »

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Reply #2634 on: June 19, 2017, 09:36:22 AM

I've had nothing but problems with liquid cooling (mainly the closed units).  I switched my main gaming PC over to a Thermaltake Frio years ago and never looked back.  Even under heavy load it's incredibly quiet and effective.  Highly recommended even though it's a bit pricey.  It is huge though, so I doubt it wold work for a backpack build.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #2635 on: June 19, 2017, 07:50:31 PM

For anybody else who wants to kick themselves in the junk try and build a performance PC in the absolute minimum space with no case ventilation, this article indicates that the AR06 has better cooling performance than the Noctua l9i, as well as providing that desperately needed air exchange.

The options appear to be the AR06 or the Big Shuriken Model 2rB, which is similar in design and footprint to the GeminII M4, but will play nicer with the ram sticks it will certainly overhang (even so, nothing faster than 3000 has heat spreaders short enough to fit under it, but prices go up fast after 3200 anyway). Going to be at least a month before I reach the point of actually buying stuff, but it looks like a plan.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
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Reply #2636 on: June 22, 2017, 04:41:02 PM

Need to do an upgrade to a rather old system from 5+ years ago.  Looking for 60fps @ 1080p in most new titles.  On a budget, so i'll be reusing case, power supply, several SATA 1TB WD hard drives, speakers, etc.

Mobo: MSI Pro Series Intel B250 (B250M PRO-VDH) - $85
CPU: Intel Pentium 3.50 GHz Dual-Core LGA 1151 Processor (BX80677G4560) - $85
Video Card: PNY GeForce GTX 1060 3 GB - $229
Memory: 8GB (2x4GB) Crucial DDR4-2133: $60

Total: $459

Thoughts?  I will dual boot it between Windows and Gentoo Linux, so something with support in the mainline Linux kernel is a consideration.

What about displays?  What is 'G-Sync support about, and is it important?

“We have competent people thinking about this stuff. We’re not just making shit up.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson
MahrinSkel
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Reply #2637 on: June 22, 2017, 05:47:57 PM

There are Z170 motherboards in the same range as that B250, which will get you the option of memory upgrades past 2133. Even as just a future proofing option, it is probably worth it. A lot of them are cheap because the chipset has been deprecated in favor of the Z270 and they're closing them out, but it's still a gaming tuned board.

--Dave


--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
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Reply #2638 on: June 22, 2017, 07:06:09 PM

Like this?

MSI Z170A GAMING M5 LGA 1151 Intel Z170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Motherboard

Looks like it supports DDR4-3200 and has 4 slots that support 16GB DIMM's (or 64GB total)?

I'm also wondering if it's worth it to spend $40 more and move to the newer Kaby Lake processors?  The 4Ghz dual-core can be had for $120, and it's 500Mhz faster for less power.  Also, I do quite a bit of conversion between MPEG2 and H.264, and ffmpeg in multi-pass mode can make use of multiple cores, so a 4 core / 8 thread might be a good upgrade?

“We have competent people thinking about this stuff. We’re not just making shit up.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson
MahrinSkel
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Reply #2639 on: June 22, 2017, 09:46:46 PM

Like this?

MSI Z170A GAMING M5 LGA 1151 Intel Z170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Motherboard

Looks like it supports DDR4-3200 and has 4 slots that support 16GB DIMM's (or 64GB total)?

I'm also wondering if it's worth it to spend $40 more and move to the newer Kaby Lake processors?  The 4Ghz dual-core can be had for $120, and it's 500Mhz faster for less power.  Also, I do quite a bit of conversion between MPEG2 and H.264, and ffmpeg in multi-pass mode can make use of multiple cores, so a 4 core / 8 thread might be a good upgrade?
CPU's are more of a PITA to upgrade than anything else, so if you're going to cough up a little extra on anything, that's where to do it. Changing a video card takes seconds, memory not much more, but in addition to the hassles of cleaning all the goop off everything, it seems like every time I have been ready to upgrade the CPU on a system, the socket standards had changed and I couldn't get the new hotness into my old motherboard.

DDR4 3200 seems to be the current sweet spot for price/performance tradeoffs.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
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Reply #2640 on: June 23, 2017, 12:41:25 PM

Like this?

MSI Z170A GAMING M5 LGA 1151 Intel Z170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Motherboard

Looks like it supports DDR4-3200 and has 4 slots that support 16GB DIMM's (or 64GB total)?

I'm also wondering if it's worth it to spend $40 more and move to the newer Kaby Lake processors?  The 4Ghz dual-core can be had for $120, and it's 500Mhz faster for less power.  Also, I do quite a bit of conversion between MPEG2 and H.264, and ffmpeg in multi-pass mode can make use of multiple cores, so a 4 core / 8 thread might be a good upgrade?

If you are doing a lot of multithreaded things but are on a tight budget you might want to look at the new Ryzen chips from AMD.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #2641 on: June 24, 2017, 05:34:37 PM

Question: Will bad things happen if I put 'server' memory into a normal build? In the course of exploring options that wouldn't have issues with overhanging CPU coolers, I noticed that the only way to get 32gb DDR4 ram is in the form of sticks that are labeled as being for servers, with no heat spreaders (and a lower voltage, 1.2V). Assuming that the board can configure itself for the right voltage, what other problems would I be courting with 64gb of 'server' ram?

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
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Reply #2642 on: June 24, 2017, 06:14:23 PM

Some boards don't support the more dense chips used in LRDIMMs which are typically used for the larger capacity server memory. Otherwise it should be ok as long as your board supports the voltage/timings/ECC modes that the sticks are.


'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #2643 on: June 24, 2017, 10:44:34 PM

Some boards don't support the more dense chips used in LRDIMMs which are typically used for the larger capacity server memory. Otherwise it should be ok as long as your board supports the voltage/timings/ECC modes that the sticks are.
So something like this Kingston memory should at least theoretically work? Apparently ram disks are a thing again, and to get enough ram into just two slots, this is the only way it would work.

If I want to spend an extra $300+, lose the higher memory speed that the Z270 can support, juggle the games I am playing into and out of image archives, just to load game files faster than 1800MB/sec....

You know what? This is a stupid idea. It would make more sense to spend the extra $300 on a Samsung Evo SSD and load from the SSD at 3200MB/sec.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
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Reply #2644 on: June 25, 2017, 01:09:50 PM

Well bollocks.  Apparently the BitCoin miners have wiped out all the GFX 1060 and Radeon 480's and 580's from essentially every online retail web site.  Very difficult to find any in stock that aren't inflated an extra $100-$200.

“We have competent people thinking about this stuff. We’re not just making shit up.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson
Trippy
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Reply #2645 on: June 25, 2017, 01:59:44 PM

There are still a few 1080s left awesome, for real
MahrinSkel
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Reply #2646 on: June 25, 2017, 03:24:38 PM

Wondered what the hell was going on with 1060's.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
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Reply #2647 on: June 28, 2017, 02:54:12 AM

Well bollocks.  Apparently the BitCoin miners have wiped out all the GFX 1060 and Radeon 480's and 580's from essentially every online retail web site.  Very difficult to find any in stock that aren't inflated an extra $100-$200.

Yeah.  We have around 8 racks of them, mining away.  Don't even ask.  My boss is a fucking arsehole and I'm outta here first chance I get.   Ohhhhh, I see.

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Reply #2648 on: June 28, 2017, 08:59:32 AM

Well bollocks.  Apparently the BitCoin miners have wiped out all the GFX 1060 and Radeon 480's and 580's from essentially every online retail web site.  Very difficult to find any in stock that aren't inflated an extra $100-$200.

Yeah.  We have around 8 racks of them, mining away.  Don't even ask.  My boss is a fucking arsehole and I'm outta here first chance I get.   Ohhhhh, I see.
Wow that probably won't pay for itself.
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Reply #2649 on: June 28, 2017, 04:32:06 PM

I thought bitcoin mining reached the point where consumer product GPU's couldn't ever break even a long time ago? Don't they have those specialty boards that can't do anything but mine that are way the fuck more efficient?

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Trippy
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Reply #2650 on: June 28, 2017, 05:09:03 PM

Yes Bitcoin is mined with ASICs now. However there are a bazillion cryptocurrencies now like Ethereum that don't have ASICs developed for them (yet) so GPUs are the way to go for those.

Edit: no *
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 07:12:32 PM by Trippy »
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Reply #2651 on: June 28, 2017, 11:45:25 PM

Yeah, its not bitcoin people are mining for these days.

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Reply #2652 on: June 29, 2017, 07:26:20 AM

Well bollocks.  Apparently the BitCoin miners have wiped out all the GFX 1060 and Radeon 480's and 580's from essentially every online retail web site.  Very difficult to find any in stock that aren't inflated an extra $100-$200.

Yeah.  We have around 8 racks of them, mining away.  Don't even ask.  My boss is a fucking arsehole and I'm outta here first chance I get.   Ohhhhh, I see.
Wow that probably won't pay for itself.

This is not news to me.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Reply #2653 on: June 29, 2017, 07:29:58 AM

8 racks + electricity paid for by the company to personally enrich himself? Sounds American!
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Reply #2654 on: June 29, 2017, 11:50:36 AM

A colleague of mine at NVidia said that the miners are going directly to the OEM rebadger factories in China and bulk ordering directly from the source.  So the Newegg's and Amazon's are getting pre-empted from fulfilling any orders in the first place.  Given TSMC's and Dresden fabs have 12-16 week turnarounds, the shortage in the $150-$350 mid-range from both AMD and NVidia might not lift for several quarters.

He did mention that NVidia is trying to have more stock available through their Founder's Edition retail channel at non-inflated prices, so anyone who's looking for cards might want to check there.  The FE cards aren't overclocked monsters but at least they can be purchased at non-astronomical prices.

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Nebu
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Reply #2655 on: June 29, 2017, 01:07:53 PM

Can anyone suggest a solid CPU/Mobo combo for gaming/work?  I'm considering the Intel Core i5-7600K LGA 1151 as I've heard good things about the Kaby Lake chips.   My current box is 4 years old and in need of an upgrade.

Thanks.

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-  Mark Twain
MisterNoisy
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Reply #2656 on: June 29, 2017, 07:55:26 PM

Can anyone suggest a solid CPU/Mobo combo for gaming/work?  I'm considering the Intel Core i5-7600K LGA 1151 as I've heard good things about the Kaby Lake chips.   My current box is 4 years old and in need of an upgrade.

Thanks.

What are you using now?  Kaby Lake doesn't really improve on Skylake in terms of IPC, it just overclocks better.  If you're on a Haswell i5 or later, I'd probably just stand pat on the CPU/mobo front and look at the other parts unless you absolutely feel the need to upgrade.  My brother is still on Sandy Bridge (2500K), and once we dropped a 1060 6GB in there earlier this year, his box has handled everything he's thrown at it. The Ryzen CPUs looks pretty sweet for heavily multithreaded stuff, though.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 07:58:06 PM by MisterNoisy »

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Reply #2657 on: June 29, 2017, 10:02:04 PM

I've got the 2500k sandy with 16GB of RAM and it's mostly good. Starting to feel a little strain, though. I run at 1080p and a 970 kicks its ass in most things at max settings. Kind of waiting for intel to have another of those nice price/performance/low power bumps before bothering with it. And even then, until I think about a 4k tv, it's probably not worth it (and I'm going to HATE buying a new tv, since it's  $2500-5000 vs the $1100-1400 for the same size DLPs, papa ain't buying no $5k tv)

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Reply #2658 on: June 29, 2017, 10:14:37 PM


What are you using now?  Kaby Lake doesn't really improve on Skylake in terms of IPC, it just overclocks better.  If you're on a Haswell i5 or later, I'd probably just stand pat on the CPU/mobo front and look at the other parts unless you absolutely feel the need to upgrade.  My brother is still on Sandy Bridge (2500K), and once we dropped a 1060 6GB in there earlier this year, his box has handled everything he's thrown at it. The Ryzen CPUs looks pretty sweet for heavily multithreaded stuff, though.

I currently have an i5 3570 Ivy 3.4 GHz on an old ASRock Z77 mobo.  I want to say the memory in it is DDR3 1866 (8 GB).  Thought it may be time for an upgrade.

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-  Mark Twain
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Reply #2659 on: June 29, 2017, 11:52:08 PM

What GPU do you have now? 

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