f13.net

Sold my current rig to a buddy, so time to build a new one.

Budget:
2500.00 USD, including shipping, after MIR's if applicable.  Shipping to 36601 zipcode.
Requirements: 
I'm pushing 1920x1200 resolution, and am a bleeding edge graphics whore.  So everything is usually jacked up as high as it goes.  I want it to be quiet, which may be tough considering the budget/use.  Prefer single card/GPU solution, but not averse to SLI or Crossfire, so in that regard an SLI mobo is probably the way to go for later (just in case), same for the PSU.  Prefer Intel and nVidia, but not married to it.  I'm not scared of overclocking.  I'm tempted to look into watercooling, but someone would have to really try hard to convince me to do it.  Nothing loud about the case at all, from sound/fans to graphics or LEDs (black never goes out of style).
Primary use:
Gaming 99 percent of the time.  Burning movies/audio 1 percent of the time.  If a BR drive/burner(s) can be squeezed in, awesome, but not a requirement.  Mostly play FPSs and MMOs.
Do not need: 
Any peripherals.  Large amounts of storage.  I back the important stuff up to DVD, and have a couple external 1TB HDD's.  250GB to 350GB HDD should be more than enough.  500GB and higher would be overkill.  Do not need to worry about multiple monitors.  My single 24" works just fine.
On The Fence wants/wishes (i.e. if budget allows):
NIC.  Dedicated sound card with digital optical sound out and 5.1 support.  Bluetooth capabilities.  Lots of USB ports (6+ on the back alone).

Is nVidia ever going to come out with their 300 series cards?  Is DX11 worth worrying about for the next couple years (by which time it is, new/better GPUs will be on the market)?  Is it worth it to just game on my laptop until after the 1st of the year and take a look at building then?

If you know what you want why can't you spec your own?

Because I'm completely behind the times and don't want to handcuff a rig by being cpu or gpu bound, or any other number of factors.  Plus, the obvious, of looking advice from people that know better, especially in terms of quiet components (psu, case, etc).  Some things I'm just going to have to live with as far as noise is concerned, but I'd like to mitigate it was much as possible. 

Knowing what I want out of a rig isn't quite the same as knowing how to achieve it.  Seems to me that simply going through newegg or whatever and automatically clicking the most expensive component by default is a bad idea.

http://arstechnica.com/hardware/guides/2009/10/ars-system-guide-october-2009-edition.ars

If I was looking to build a $2500 rig I think I would try and squeeze a 160gb Intel SSD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167024) in and live with that as my primary OS Drive.  Probably offload all other storage to NAS.  I think 2010 is definitely going to be the year of the SSD, performance glitches have been overcome and the price/gb is dropping down to mainstream levels.  Just need to clear out all the OEM contracts with the crappy SSD providers and replace them with the guys that are actually delivering the decent products. 

Cold Boot to logged in with Photoshop open in 6 seconds is definitely a performance boost that will be noticed. 

Sounds like we have similar taste in cases, so I'll recommend mine yet again Coolermaster Sileo 500 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119192&Tpk=sileo%20500)

My comments:

If you want the option of SLI/Crossfire you should go with LGA 1366 as the companion X58 chipset supports more PCIe lanes than the equivalent LGA 1156/P55 setup. You can do SLI/Crossfire on LGA 1156 but you aren't getting a full 16 lanes on your second card unless the MB maker has hacked in some extra lanes.

If you are willing to overclock I'd recommend the i7-920 as it overclocks really well. Otherwise since your budget is so large go for the i7-950.

For a single GPU video card you'll want the 5870 assuming you don't want to get something cheap(er) now and wait to see what NVIDIA comes out with next year. If you want the dual-GPU 5970 you'll have to drop down to the i7-920 to fit that in (~$650 assuming you can find one).

Here's an example build with no case or accessories that comes out to ~$2200.00 (inc. rebates)


Intel Core i7-950 3.06GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16819115211
$569.99

Noctua NH-U12P SE2 120mm SSO CPU Cooler - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16835608014
$74.99

CORSAIR CMPSU-1000HX 1000W Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16817139007
$239.99

Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16832116762
$174.99

MSI Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) R5870-PM2D1G Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16814127449
$429.99

GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD5 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16813128362
$268.99

Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Hard Drives -Bare
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16822136284
$99.99
   
CORSAIR XMS3 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16820145258
$154.99

LG Black 8X Blu-ray Burner SATA Model WH08LS20
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16827136176
$189.99

*Grand Total:*   $2,203.91

I really can't see building a PC today costing $2500. This entire concept is flat out insane. Buy a 5870, take your pick of an i7 and mobo, throw in a couple WD Blacks for $100, 8GB of RAM is a trivial amount, put it all in a cardboard box and buy a 500" monitor because I still don't see how you're spending $2500 on a PC in 2009.

Edit: Yes, I see Trippy's post. But spending telling him to spend $569 on a processor is obviously just so he can laugh at him later. And $300 on a power supply? lol

What Schild said. I spent around the same amount (GBP so a couple of hundred went on VAT) on my rig and that included two 22" Samsung monitors. Just make sure to get at least 6gb of decent RAM, nice and fast alongside an i7 on a decent board. Personally I can reommend the ASUS P6T range (based on 6 months of it being great and lots of review reading prior to purchase). 5870 certainly looks like the way to if you want "bang for buck"... wow, there's a phrase I never thought I'd type.

I second the i7-920/LGA-1366/X58 recommendations, that is IMO the cheapest (read "cost-efficient") high-end setup you can buy, and it is pretty future-proof.

WD Caviar Black is pretty much the best "mainstream" HDD you can buy, buy two of those at 1TB so you can RAID 1 them and have permanent backup. The X58 mobos all should come with integrated raid controllers for that.

Get a 5870 if they are available, a solid 6GB tri-channel kit (something that does DDR3-1600 at CL8 is quite okay).

Power Supply, something at 500-600W should suffice for starters, the 1000W Trippy listed is quite a beast and definitely needed if you plan for some big SLI/Crossfire deal later, but you can always upgrade that a later time too.

Maybe you all missed the part where SnakeCharmer is a graphics ho. IF he wants the best, he needs expensive motherboard, expensive video card(s) and to protect that asset, an expensive power supply that isn't going to fizzle and wreck his system under load 5 months down the line. Trippy's choices are reasonable for a high graphics performance system.

However, that said, it seems very silly to spend that much on a system and then getting a cheap monitor. I mean, after all, the point is to get very good visuals, and you can't do that without dropping at least 500 more on a monitor. Even that seems penny wise pound foolish, since for the most part, monitors can outlive systems by a generation or two.

This would not surprise me. SSD for the system and a portable HDD for storage. I can see that as being the norm is a few years.

Trippy - Thanks for the info, most appreciated.  That's actually pretty close to what I had pieced together, but was going with the 920 and OC it.  I figure the price difference would be better spent on a better video card (or cards), or more RAM possibly.

Schild - Hush.  Going cheap on a PSU is a quick road to an early death.

Kageh - I figure I'm going to go ahead and buy a 850w or higher PSU.  No point in upgrading to SLI/Crossfire later on and be stuck with an inadequate PSU that I won't need anymore, and end up spending more money in the long run.  I look at it like kind of like woodwork - measure twice, cut once.

Engels - My monitor is fine (Gateway FHD2400).  TN panel, tiny bit of backlight bleedthrough and some color shifting, but overall, I'm happy with it.  Might upgrade down the road; just need to get my kid to sling a toy through the current one to justify a purchase of a new monitor with the wife  :drillf:.

Phht, you need this monitor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9sXhYlIfRY)

I don't go cheap on PSUs, in fact I buy the best rated on the market. You don't need to spend $300 to be safe.

You could build a gaming rig for a good deal less than above, and see almost no performance difference and donate $1,000 to f13 (money saved!) for servers.

Point being, you're pissing money away spending $2500 on a PC these days.

If the results from this (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/balanced-gaming-pc,2477.html) hold up and you get the best graphics card out there (which only comes from AMD at this point) you can cheap out and get the 1156 socket i5 or an X3 Phenom instead of the 1336 socket i7 because AMD cards unlike Nvidia don't rely on a strong CPU to maximize their performance.

I agree with Trippy in that if you want a silent high performance cooler get the Noctua 120mm fan model NH-U12P.

But if you want to take the risk of using a ridiculously large CPU cooler that could be a hassle to fit on your mobo, the newer 140 mm fan version offers better thermal performance while taking a hit on the acoustics performance.

I don't agree with the PSU. The Corsair is overkill if you aren't going for a tri or quad gpu setup. I would recommend the seasonic 750X if you lived in a state with high energy prices like New York but a quick look (http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html) at the state you are coming from tells me the savings you would get for the 80 gold wouldn't make up for the upfront cost unlike the Seasonic M12D 750 which is vastly cheaper and is highly rated as a quiet PSU.

2500 Budget is overkill. I barely break that with my wishlist which includes a monitor. Since you want silent performance you have the option of getting a 160 GB Intel X-25M solid state drive even though it is somewhat an excessive expense.

Since you like to overclock you'll want a board with great capacitors and bios to do your tweaking. Since you want to spend the money on a dedicated sound card I think you would want to look at Gigabyte and ASrock boards instead of Asus or EVGA which use high end integrated audio parts which help inflate the price of their high end overclocking boards.

Your biggest source of noise will come from the GPU. You aren't going to be able to get a quiet card through air cooling even though the ATI 5870 is very power efficient unlike some of the past heat hogs. I strongly suggest you consider using a water block. I've never done watercooling myself though so I can't make any recommendations other than you won't get silence unless you are using your GPU to push the limits of Runescape and Peggle.

The 5870 isn't near as loud as one would think. It's whisper quiet compared to a Nvidia 285/295.

If you're spending $1700+, and not getting a SSD, you're doing it wrong.

Get an OCZ or Intel SSD for your OS drive.

Wait, OCZ makes products that are not utter shite?

I've no idea what OCZ's rep is on other components, but their Vertex SSD's are arguably on par with the Intel drives.

I've got the 30gb Vertex drive, and its great.

AFAIK the new Intel SSD g2r5 is the only drive on the market that supports the TRIM command, although the price per gb is slightly better on some of the OCZ stuff it is still in the same ballpark as the Intel SSD.  If you are running w7 (an OS that supports TRIM) then the Intel drive is the one to go with as the price difference isn't really all that different and performance-wise Intel has been and still is leading the pack.  The only big negative with Intel is they have their head up their ass on firmware updates and have bricked a few drives in the process.  Fortunately if you get the latest drive revision with the TRIM support already included there won't be some major reason to flash the firmware ASAP (ie before they dork a few drives and pull it back).

Hmmm, TRIM has been supported by Indilinx controllers for quite some time AFAIK, it's just that OS-wise it was only supported by Linux until W7 launched.

About PSU Watts needed: Watts and Amperage are two different things. The figure you are actually needing is the maximum current on the 12v rails, not the maximum electrical power. You can run an overclocked i7 with an SLI setup on a good 650W-750W PSU easily, once you get to 50-55+ A on 12V. There are also fantastic PSUs in that range without having to push to 1000W, which will not fry on you and not burn out or damage your system. The 1000W figure sizing is way too conservative. I'm talking $150+ savings there which you can spend on additional stuff.

One more thing you should consider, for that price range, if waiting another few months is an option: First NVidia Fermi benchmarks (leaked from NVidia, yo  :grin:)are starting to show up, and that thing is apparently dominating the ATI5xxx. Conservative estimates put the mainstream launch around march 2010, which isn't that far away.

Power supply math is funny, though. Even though a 650W may say it can put out, say, 52A on the +12V line, that's 624W right there meaning it can only output 26W for all the other lines assuming you somehow maxed out the +12V line (and assuming 100% efficiency). In other words the total power output of the power supply is the number you see stated, not the sum of the wattages on all the different lines (it's even more complicated cause +3.3V and +5V typically "share" a max wattage value as well).

More realistically let's say your top-end SLI setup is consuming 40A at +12V (=480W) and you've got a 130W TDP CPU (yes I know the TDP rating isn't the same as the actual power draw but it's a good approximation). Now you are kind of screwed if you only have a 650W power supply, especially once you take efficiency into account. 1000W may be overkill but for what SnakeCharmer may want to do in the future 650W is very likely to be too small. And this doesn't take overclocking/overvoltaging into account.

Edit: also power supplies typically are less efficient at low loads and very high loads and they run hotter at higher loads so it's best to run them around 1/2 to 3/4 load. This is less of an issue than it was in the past as "enthusiast" PS designs are often quite efficient these days (many are in the 80% efficiency range with some in 90% range) but it's still something to consider.

I agree with the math Trippy, very well put and sound logic.

I'm actually running an overclocked/undervolted i7 (3.6GHz at 1.15 VCore, yay for Xeon) with 2x260 (55nm) SLI on a 650W TT QFan, but it's probably close. I'm just used to be conservative about PSUs, as I'm seeing too much overkill with them.

Well, technically I went $52 over (https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/MySavedWishDetail.aspx?ID=11651085), you could always shave a little money on the HDD.  Should show that, it's a public wishlist.

> 1 SAMSUNG 2494SW Glossy Black 24" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor
> Item #: N82E16824001338
> Return Policy: Monitor Replacement Only Return Policy -$60.00 Instant
> $269.99
> $209.99
> 1 ABS Diablo ADV Black Finish + Titanium bezel Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case
> Item #: N82E16811215013
> Return Policy: Standard Return Policy -$50.00 Instant
> $159.99
> $109.99
> 1 G.SKILL Trident 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2000 (PC3 16000) Desktop Memory Model F3-16000CL9Q-8GBTD
> Item #: N82E16820231332
> Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy $259.99
> 1 HITACHI Deskstar HD32000 IDK/7K 2TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Retail
> Item #: N82E16822145276
> Return Policy: Standard Return Policy $169.99
> 1 COOLMAX ZP-1000B 1000W ATX 12V V2.3 / EPS 12V V2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
> Item #: N82E16817159116
> Return Policy: Standard Return Policy -$50.00 Instant
> $30.00 Mail-in Rebate
> $179.99
> $129.99
> 1 Thermaltake A2384 Noise Dampening Kit
> Item #: N82E16800999369
> Return Policy: Standard Return Policy $8.99
> 2 HIS H489F1GP Radeon HD 4890 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
> Item #: N82E16814161276
> Return Policy: VGA Standard Return Policy $399.98
> 1 OCZ Colossus OCZSSD2-1CLS120G 3.5" 120GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD)
> Item #: N82E16820227472
> Return Policy: Limited Replacement Only Return Policy $549.00
> 1 LG Black 8X Blu-ray Burner - Bulk SATA Model WH08LS20K
> Item #: N82E16827136175
> Return Policy: Standard Return Policy $149.99
> 1 MSI 790GX-G65 AM3 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard
> Item #: N82E16813130224
> Return Policy: Limited Replacement Only Return Policy $119.99
> 1 Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders
> Item #: N82E16832116762
> Return Policy: Software Return Policy $174.99
> 1 AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor Model HDZ965FBGMBOX
> Item #: N82E16819103727
> Return Policy: CPU Replacement Only Return Policy $195.00
> 1 ZALMAN CNPS10X Extreme 120mm CPU Cooler with Worlds first PWM Fan Speed Controller
> Item #: N82E16835118051
> Return Policy: Standard Return Policy $75.03
>

EDIT: Just wanted to show what you could get if you stepped entirely away from Intel/NVidia.  For another $80, you can get true x16 on both PCIe slots.

--Dave

I think I would take the 160gb Intel SSD over a 120gb OCZ SSD any day of the week.

edit: Also, I am getting really close to taking this plunge and my new train of thought is I can get 2x80gb Intel SSD's cheaper than I can get 1x160gb Intel SSD.  RAID 0 for even faster performance, nearly the same storage and be out the door for less $$.

edit #2: Also, the Intel is a 2.5" drive compared to the OCZ 3.5 inch.  This adds some longevity, if you upgrade this thing later on you can dump the old one into your laptop.

I think that if you buy Crossfire currently, you're just punishing yourself. ATI has a long way to go to get microstuttering under control. SLI is way more matured, but still pretty much a luxury and the individual NVidia highend cards (GT200) are currently inferior to their ATI counterparts (5xxx models).

With something like 2x4890 or 2x5850/2x5870 you might brute-force your way around micro-stuttering by simply crunching enough frames to stay ahead of the magical 30FPS barrier, but the higher you crank quality up, the more you're likely to get there.

Crossfire/SLI are both bullshit. A high end 5XXX card will run any game(except maybe Crysis, which sucks) maxed out for the next several years. It's just wasted money for extra e-peen and stability issues.

300 for a power supply is complete snake oil. You can pick up one just fine for around 100, even to power a 5970. I'd recommend a Corsair. They're fairly new to psu's, but they've put out some good ones.

If you're looking mainly for gaming, skip the bloomfields and pick up a lynnfield. The decreased max memory is of no concern, and it has an integrated pci-e controller.

Really, these days the only justifiable purchase to spurge on is an SSD. Either pick up an Intel or a drive with an indilinx controller.

Your CPU less powerful than the i5-750 and only slightly cheaper (by $5). Or to put it another way AMD's top-end CPU is not even a match for Intel's lowest end LGA 1156 CPU. If I was going to spend that much on a computer I'd prefer something with more "headroom" for the future, but I'm the type that will upgrade CPUs. I also prefer to spend more on the CPU itself initially as it *is* a pain to upgrade, unlike a video card, so I prefer to upgrade CPUs as infrequently as possible.

Dual 4890s is about the same as a single 5870 (some games 2x4890 is faster, some games the 5870 is faster) so I don't think it's worth putting up with Crossfire (as Goreschach described above) for roughly the same performance/price.

If you wanted to build a lower-end machine AMD is a very good choice as Intel isn't competitive down in that price range but for a $2500 system it seems odd to gimp your CPU.

Yeah, it was mostly a "what if" exercise.  High-end CPU's have tilted towards Intel for several years now, but low-end and mid-range is all AMD.  Personally, I think $2500 is an insane amount to spend on a gaming rig, you can get 90% of the performance for $1000 and still have plenty of upgrade headroom.  I actually just de-SLI'd my rig, putting the pair of 7800GT's the original owner probably spent $800 for into family computers and replacing them with a single 4870 (not much performance boost, but it let me work out a significant upgrade for everyone in the house, including two everything-but-the-HDD rebuilds for 5 year old systems, for $700 total).

--Dave

EDIT As for OCZ vs. Intel SSD; The OCZ has a far higher write speed, and a bigger cache, as well as a 25% higher MTBF rating.  I can see your point, but if I wanted to RAID brute-force the problem, I'd probably work around this little unit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227393), RAID 5 with four or five of those.  I've got 6 SATA ports on my mobo, and it's not hard to find them with 8 or 10.  What else are you going to do with them?  Actually, that's probably exactly what I'll do for my next major upgrade on this rig.

That colossus OCZ drive doesn't support TRIM and is pretty expensive per gb even for a SSD.  The performance on it is faster because it is built like 4 SSD's crammed into 1 package with a built in RAID controller.  On the flip side I just read somewhere that if you RAID the Intel SSD's they do not support TRIM either, so I am back to looking at a single 160gb Intel drive.

I have a question about SSDs.  If you have your OS installed on one of these, and your games/apps on say a Caviar Black drive, will you still see a significant performance improvement?  I mean it stands to reason the machine will boot quicker, but will game/app performance improve enough to warrant the upgrade cost?  

I would load key apps (photoshop/office) on the SSD, yes you will see overall improvement as the OS will be on the SSD, but no a game loaded on a 2nd non SSD drive will not open noticeably faster.

MMO's show some of the biggest performance gains from an SSD, because they were the worst for randomly wanting to load bits of texture.  But games in general get a big performance gain from the SSD.  Order of magnitude improvements in cold boot and game startup/level loading times are typical, it also vastly improves pagefile performance (meaning app switching is no longer as big a deal).  RAID 0 or RAID 5 arrays of 5+ good drives can approach the theoretical limits of SATA 1 throughput.

But it means you have to pick and choose which games you really want to play, unless you're prepared to pay a really large amount to get enough capacity.

--Dave

I own an Indilinx-controller 64 GB SSD, a JMicron 32GB SSD (POS, bought before I realized what that means), 2 WD Black Drives in Raid 0. I tried lots of possible combinations with that.

Regardless of what people say and the theoretical benchmarks, aside from the extremely fast random access time, for gaming the SSD offers little perceivable advantage over a RAID 0 array, which in turn offers little perceivable difference over a single WD Black for me.

After trying various options, I settled to:

• Indilinx-SSD as boot/OS/app drive (64 GB is plenty for everything, including Office/Photoshop and so on. I think I'm at 33 GB usage or so with all that I could think of installed)
• Raid 0 array as my gaming drive and hosting the page file. It doesn't make a hell of a difference, but hey, I can do it, so why not. If one drive fails, all my game installs are fubared, I don't care much.
• Raid 1 array as my "data" drive, symlinked for the user home directory under Windows 7. So all my documents, music, videos etc. are redundant, I never worry about backups.
• JMicron crap as portable "USB HDD", as it actually has a mini-USB connector and I couldn't figure another use for it.

The raid 0/raid 1 stuff is actually a matrix raid on an ICH10R controller, meaning it uses partitions from two physical drives for two different types of raids, which is cool. I wouldn't know what to do with 2TB of storage otherwise.

Page file on raid 0, mainly to not hog the SSD down and saves me space on the SSD. I even ran with page file disabled for quite some time without any troubles, except for when I decided to 5-box WoW and the damn Firefox memory leak crashed me. Then I enabled page file back on and switched to Chrome!

Thanks for the information guys, that is certainly helpful.  I think I'll probably wait until about this time next year to take the SSD plunge.

Arise! Now that it's tax time and I'm looking at a nice refund, I'm looking to build a new system in the $1000-1500 range. I mostly play WoW but I'd like to be able to run other things and have them look pretty. Doesn't need to be top of the line, as I'm not a huge FPS person, but I want something new. Here's what I'm looking at so far:

Processor:
Intel Core i7-920 2.66GHz LGA 1366 Quad-Core Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202

Mobo:
GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD3R X58 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128375

RAM:
Kingston HyperX 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104167

Graphics Card:
SAPPHIRE 100284L Radeon HD 5750 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102859

Are these all pretty decent choices? I've used some of the suggestions in this thread and some stuff I've read online. Anywhere I can get better performance for the same price, substantial upgrade for a small amount more, or big savings with only a small downgrade?

I'd also like to pick up an SSD to install WoW and Win7 on; is this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167013) one any good? It doesn't need to be too big, just big enough for WoW and the OS.

Thanks in advance.

Have you looked at a LGA 1156 setup instead? Might save you a few bucks.

If future storage options is important I'd also suggest looking for a MB that supports USB 3.0/SATA 6.0 Gbps. You have to read the fine print on those boards, though, to make sure those ports are supported by at least PCI-e x4 (some only use PCI-e x1 which isn't enough bandwidth).

Not sure I would buy into Sata 3/USB 3 mainboard at this point, as most of it is very first gen, but other than that Trippy makes a valid point.

If you stick with LGA1366/Bloomfield i7, buy a triple-channel kit (3x2GB) instead, as the Bloomfield supports that unlike LGA1156.

Your SSD is good! Like in "very high-end good", the link you posted is to the enterprise-class, premium-priced SLC X25-E. You might want to get the X25-M 80GB gen2 model, which is usually more than enough for mainstream computer use (even though it uses MLC, shouldn't bother you) and costs a fraction of the comparable X25-E.

I do think the graphics card is not a good choice though. 5750 is basically very mid-range. Unless you really need DX11, you could spend a bit more and either get a 4870/4890 or a 5850 (for even more) as those are a way better investment for gaming PCs than an SSD.

Might be worth it to hold off until the new nVidia GPU's hit the market this March (I think?).  That's what I decided to do.  Been doing most of my gaming on my PS3 or 360 lately anyway.

Good call, looking at switching to this processor Trippy:
Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215

Thanks for the heads up about the SSD Kageh; don't really know much about the tech so I just browsed the lower capacity ones assuming they'd be cheaper. I'll pick up the X25-M; going to look into the graphics cards you suggested when I get home.

The i5s don't support HyperThreading. If that bothers you you can move up to the i7-860 (assuming you want to switch to LGA 1156) which is basically the same price point as the i7-920 but it has a higher base clock speed and has a better "Turbo Boost" mode. The i7-920 is still better at multi-processing/multi-threading, though, even though the 860 and 920 both have HyperThreading.

I can live without the HT, so I'll stick with the i5. Switching to this graphics card per Kageh's suggestion:

SAPPHIRE 100279-1GL Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102849

Also adding this SSD:

Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2M080G2R5 2.5" 80GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167023

That puts me at about $1100 just from newegg, without shopping around for prices (Are they still generally the cheapest around? Haven't bought components in a year or so) and I still need to add a PSU, heatsink, case, and DVD drive.

For help with the graphics card decision, here's a decent benchmark round-up:

http://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/grafikkarten/xfx_ati_radeon_hd_5750/s08.php?benchmark=l4d&lang=eng

Select the game engine/resolution that interests you the most you'll see how the cards do against each other.

Are you using an existing psu and case?

Nope, I'm gonna need a new case and PSU.

Thanks for the benchmark roundup, although I really wish they had WoW on there as that's mostly what I'm going to be playing with it.

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,689378/WoW-Wrath-of-the-Lich-King-Benchmarks-with-Ati-and-Nvidia-graphics-cards/Practice/?page=2

Note that those tests are run with maxed/nearly maxed AA/AF settings.

WoW will run on a GeForce 2 class GPU with the resolution/settings set low enough (on my GeForce 4 Go laptop) and I've run it at 1920 x 1080 on an 9400M integrated GPU so really anything other than an Intel integrated GPU *pos* GMA950 *pos* would be fine if you are willing to turn down some settings.

So I'm planning a rig, too. $1000ish is my budget.

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_mtmggj7FaRo/S2tzD9dMNBI/AAAAAAAAAIg/OvvAf0emU_w/wootcomputer4.png)

Any comments? Suggestions? I want to play 1080p on my HDTV, do some Maya work, and home entertainment etc.

I'd go with a more "normal" motherboard.

Speaking of motherboards, I had forgot to find a new one since changing to the i5 processor; probably going to go with this one:

Intel BOXDP55WB LGA 1156 Intel P55 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121388

How big of a PSU will I need for this system? Will a 650W suffice, if I don't ever intend to SLI or overclock? Something like this:

DYNAPOWER USA EJ-650A80 650W ATX12V v2.2 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817255049

I'm still debating which case to go with. I want something that looks cool, and has a removable side panel/motherboard tray. Maybe one of these two:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156189
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156078

For motherboard, unless you really need mATX (for a HTPC case for example), I wouldn't buy mATX form factor. They are quite cramped to work with and have very few expansion possibilities, which might be a pain in the long run even if it doesn't bother you now. My recommendation would be to buy something mainstream from the Asus/Gigabyte/Foxconn P55 line-up. Do you plan to overclock? Cause mainboard might make a huge difference there.

Cases: I'm a big Lancool/Lian Li fan, I think you can't beat those for quality, even though they are a bit pricey. Looks might seem a bit plain though, but IMO still very stylish. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=lancool&x=0&y=0

If you want something more fancy looking, I would recommend Antec 900 (one or two, doesn't matter), Coolermaster HAF 932/922/690 or - for a premium price but well worth every penny - Silverstone Raven 1 (or 2 if you can't get rev. 1).

As I say in every thread where someone mentions a case of any quality, Zalman says hello.

They're the only cases that don't make me wretch in terms of looks and the build quality is best in class. Odds are they make Lian Li look cheap though (cost-wise).

Edit: And yea, they do.

Edit 2: I've had two Silvestones and previously an Antec. Zalman is better than both of them also.

http://zalman.co.kr/ENG/product/Product_Read.asp?idx=367

I'll take your word on that. I wish I'd seen a Zalman so far, sadly Zalman is very under-represented in the Euro zone, I think there's about one or two stores where I live listing the cases. You see plenty of CPU coolers from them, but hardly any cases.

I'm currently using one of the more expensive Lian Li full towers which I managed to snag on ebay for a fraction of the price and I absolutely love it.

The reason I'm currently recommending the Raven from Silverstone is that I've seen amazing things about what the airflow with the inverted mounting can do to your temperatures.

I'll recommend the Sileo 500 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119192) once again. 

It probably isn't the coolest case in the world (need a Zalman CPU cooler or equivalent) and probably wouldn't want to overclock w/o water but it is pretty damn quiet.  The tool-less design is damn near perfect as well, you only need tools for motherboard or PSU replacement and rolled edges on any part of the chassis you are likely to come near.  My only real complaint is that the plastic tabs holding the pci cards in are a tad on the chintzy side.

Those Zalman cases are really nice. It reminds me of an expensive car or a VFSHG.

I redid my list of stuff (w/ a Zalman). Here's the new guy:

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_mtmggj7FaRo/S2xNYGut2QI/AAAAAAAAAIs/0EocjEywTKI/wootcomputer6.png)

I don't know what a more normal mother board would be, but I pretty much just found the recommended CPU/mobo from another forum, found a deal, and then filled in the rest.

The one you had before was a server mobo.

I like my antec p180. You've just got to be sure the power lines reach, because the psu is in a bottom chamber. I also put in a long psu and had to move the fan from the stock position. Other than that it looks nice, it's quiet and has a front door for stealth. I do have mine visible in the living room, though.

I purchased the same CPU cooler, since it was about the only 1156 compatible cooler that newegg carries: it's a piece of shit.  Crappy plastic mount (which i cracked trying to adjust it) that's a complete pita to attach.

The stock cooler is more than fine if you don't plan on OC'ing, and it's not too noisy.  Scythe makes some nice 1156 compat coolers, and I think you can order directly from the manufacturer.

I use this one on my LGA 1156 board:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608014&cm_re=noctua-_-35-608-014-_-Product

It's a "screw-in" so there's no attachment issues (no "pins" or pressure clips) and the backplate use its own set of screws to attach so removing the cooler means the backplate won't get out of alignment which is nice if you can't easily get at bottom of the motherboard.

Note that attaching the fan on the side closer to the front of the case may restrict the height of the memory that will fit in the slots closest to the CPU, depending on the layout of the MB.

It was part of a bundle deal which is why I suggested he find a normal desktop motherboard.

Hey folks,

Time for me to to buy a new rig, yes yes. Budget around (hopefully) 1800-2000 Euros

So, I was thinking about (only talking about the main components):

Case:
Coolermaster ATCS 840 Silver Full Tower
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/12670-cooler-master-atcs-840-full-tower-case-review.html

Motherboard:

Asus P6T Deluxe? Or anyways something that supports the I7 family. I'm not really interested in overclocking.
http://www.techspot.com/review/129-asus-p6t-deluxe/

Processor:

Intel i7-960
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=37151&processor=i7-960&spec-codes=SLBEU

OS:

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit

RAM:

I'm a hardcore gamer, but even though FPS are not really my cup of tea, I want to invest in a good quantity of RAM. Aren't 8GB a bit excessive, anyways? I was thinking about 4 or 6 max (DDR 3).

GFX:

Move the Nvidia 8800GTS 640MB I have on my present rig to the new one, and wait for the new Nvidia generation. Yeah, I'll live with the "bottleneck" for a bit but who cares

Soundcard:

Move my Asus D2/PM to the new rig
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/multimedia/display/asus-xonar.html

i7-960 is really bad price/performance ration imo. It is a good processor, but i7-920s can go that high with a very mild and nearly 100% safe overclock (no voltage increase, I'd even say you can probably undervolt a 920 and get 3.2-3.4 Ghz easily).

Do you really need Hyperthreading? Otherwise, like many people said in this thread, you could always get a LGA1156/i5-750 combo which has lower power consumption, generates less heat and has a better turbo implementation for those times where it would activate. If you're gaming, for many current games HT can still be a problem. If you're rather doing lots of audio/video/image processing, the HT advantage shows.

For LGA1366, Asus P6T is a solid choice, and there are variants that are cheaper than the Deluxe too. Gigabyte and Foxconn make decent i7 mainboards, even the one from Intel isn't really bad.

Quick question - for Win7 I7 gaming system with a single video card... finding single-slot mobo without built-in video card is next to impossible. Should I just by SLI/Crossfire mobo to use with single card?



Any issues disabling built-in sound? I have decent sound system dedicated to PC and always felt built-in sound cards were weak point. What would be good sound card to pair with Onkyo TX-DS595 receiver I have?

Yes and if you get a chipset/MB that supports dual x16 bandwidth (not just dual x16 slots) you'll have the option of putting the video card in the "lower" slot which may keep things a bit cooler (the video card won't be jammed up against the CPU).

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_mtmggj7FaRo/S3BUyecwW9I/AAAAAAAAAI0/HaWToEHuOQw/wootcomputer7.png)

This setup work better?

Also, do any of you guys know anything about the Windows 7 Pro deal here (http://www.microsoft.com/student/discounts/theultimatesteal-us/default.aspx) on MS's website?

You may be able to save a few bucks by using 1033 memory over 1600.  The performance gains from faster memory are small, like 1-2%. 

I really recommend going with one of the name brand cards that offer lifetime or even better double lifetime warranty (means you can void the warranty once and still return it if it dies).  I always have gone with XFX recently but there were several to choose from last time I researched it.

I also think Corsair memory is worth the relatively small price jump because I've never known anyone irl to have a bad experience with it and I hear bout bad sticks all the time on the webs.

Everything else has looked pretty good.

I have an Asus P6T board and I would recommend it.

That Gigabyte MB is some sort of weird "legacy support" board (a parallel port? really?). It's okay for a no-frills board if you don't care that the legacy stuff is taking up space that could've been used for other ports/connectors.

Do you guys have any monitor recommendations and/or where to buy them? I hear Newegg's not the best, so I left out my monitor from that order. I'm going to use my HDTV for a bit, but I'd like to move my PC to my room afterwards. Something that can roTATE would be rad. Also <$300ish but preferably ~$200.

How else can you continue to use your cassette reader?  :why_so_serious:

I use to get excited about building a bad ass machine... now its more about cheapest middle-of-the-road builds now. Which means I'll be building this same style pc in 3 years. I need to sit down soon and start thinking about what and how I want my next case to be since I'll probably fabricate it myself...I am thinking milk cartons, maybe old-style erector sets. Time to crach the flea markets for ideas.

Hardwood.  Plumb it with a liquid cooling system done in copper.

Wish you guys said something before I pulled the trigger on my build. Do I need anything to build my PC besides what comes in the boxes and a couple screwdrivers?

If your case comes with an assortment of screws you should be fine.

Is this a good place to talk about Windows PC performance metrics and the logging of them?  New thread?  Simple, complex?

I'm looking at upgrading my wife's computer in some fashion but it is too new to just throw money in its direction.  Need a help in Win7 performance metrics.

New thread.

Get yourself a small philips-head screwdriver with a long shaft. It helps tremendously in tight spots and also serves as a spike to plunge into your leg when the frustration gets too unbearable (if something doesn't work). In addition, try and pick up a pair of long nose tweezers just in case something drops or you lose a screw.

Your mobo should come with a ton of screws and spacers. Its a pretty plug-n-play process since jumpers went the way of the dodo. Most importantly, take it slow.

My turn,
I wanna upgrade and this is what I came up with.
This PC is mainly for gaming and otherwise it is for internet/video.

I'm still wondering if I should get an i7 instead since I'll be spending so much money, i7 would be easier to upgrade later on?

(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj70/euphorik99/Computer%20Specs/i5_2.jpg)

Also added an SSD in this build
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj70/euphorik99/Computer%20Specs/i7_SSD.jpg)

1. The ram is triple channel, the board is dual channel.
2. Socket LGA1156 is not the most future proof.
3. You won't actually feel the need upgrade the processor until after Intel has moved onto the next socket type and you need to replace the mobo.

Components look solid, SSD too. Careful, you have an LGA1366 CPU but LGA1156 mainboard. CPU cooler is kind of meh, IMO. If you have the money, I'd buy a Megahalem or D-14/U12P from Noctua. If you want best price/performance ratio, probably Scythe Mugen 2 or Scythe Grand Kama Cross (which is "top blow" design instead of tower and a great cooler for the money). If you don't plan to OC at all, boxed might even be enough (if a bit noisy when getting hot).

i7/LGA1366 vs. LGA1156 is a very good question. Is your PC mainly for gaming? Currently i5-750 outperforms or is at least on par with i7-920 for games, runs cooler and needs less power. Triple channel and dual PCIx16 lanes is one of the advantages of the LGA1366/X58 design if you need any of those, but the memory advantage doesn't really show in games and the PCI stuff only matters with SLI.

LGA1366 has some powerful stuff coming, like Gulftown/i9 (6-cores). But we're probably looking at least another 1-2 years before it becomes mainstream, and the advantage for gaming is still questionable since it would require a massive shift in programming paradigms towards parallelization.

D0 i7-920 is great to overclock. Don't know about i5, but it looks good on paper.

Everything I've read about the i5-750 says it thrashes the shit out of everything else in existence except for tasks that make good use of threading.

That is probably a bit of an exaggeration though. For raw number crunching, the i7 is similar in computing power but is usually hampered for games by HT, given how HT can lead to threads from the same application starving each other on the same physical core. You can turn HT off with an i7 and have similar results in games.

Here's a comprehensive game comparison at 19200x1200 average fps on i5 vs i7 with a GTX275 (full forum thread - sadly in german - here (http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=641369)):
(http://www.entrox.at/octacore/images/i5vsi7/19201200avg.png)

As you can see, there isn't really that much difference, sometimes i5 is better, sometimes i7 is better, both can be OC'ed, both vary in results.

For an interesting example of a modern game which actually uses HT - of which there aren't really that many out, but who knows what is to come - i7 can outperform i5s: (Anno1404 (http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,691811/Lynnfield-tested-Intel-Core-i5-750-and-Core-i7-860-benchmarked-in-Anno-1404-Dawn-of-Discovery/Reviews/))

The appeal of the i5 IMO comes from the reduced costs for CPU+MB+dual channel kit vs i7+highend X58 MB+triple channel kit. You get similar / slightly better performance for about 60% of the cost.

For a closing thought, here's the power consumption under load:
(http://www.entrox.at/octacore/images/i5vsi7/verbrauchlast_web.png)

At lower voltage but similar clock speed, you see the i7 consuming an intimidating 100W more than the i5, for a grand total of 350W (a huge figure). The i7 was theoretically undervolted (!) for that overclock, as most boards would default to 1.25V or higher. Assuming your computer runs 10hrs/day, thats 1kW saving per day.

Thanks for the answers.

I'm going to go for a Alpenföhn Nordwand I think, the others seems to be a bit expensive. http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HS-008-AL&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=1395

I decided to go for the i5 setup, I can't really justify the cost of an i7 setup for only a little bit of performance boost, also since I mainly do gaming I won't benefit from the HT stuff.

Oops, I did not notice the RAM was a triple channel, I'll change that, thanks.

edit: typo

More of an indulgence for me, but I really like the modular PSUs. My current PC I built, I went out of my way to grab one and I can't say enough about the neatness of the inside of my box as well as the airflow with a 120mm in front and back along with an inner core 120mm.

That's not possible since the i7-860 and i7-870 are Lynnfield chips like the i5-750 that are clocked faster than the i5-750, and those i7s have HyperThreading. You could argue the Lynnfield i7s aren't worth the extra cost but that's not the same as saying the i5-750 trashes both of them.

I was thinking this as well.  Corsair makes some nice modular PSU's but if you've never cared don't start now.

I'd try to find a better case, better cpu cooler and you should be money.

Here is my final list of stuff, thanks for your advice guys!

(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj70/euphorik99/Computer%20Specs/i5_SSD_FINAL.jpg)

I've seen benchmarking comparisons that suggest otherwise, but, you know, variability.

There are glitches with Turbo Boost in individual benchmarks but if you look at things overall there's nothing that shows the i5-750 is faster than the i7-870. The i7-860 is more debatable.

If you haven't purchased it yet, I would suggest looking around for SSD prices at zipzoomfly or so. Newegg notoriously overprices SSDs. A quick lookup saves you $45 over NE on that drive.

nah if he really wants to impress he will build it in one of these:


comes with its very own easy to use handle.   Hmm that was meant as a joke... but that would actually be really really cool, guess you would have to make some holes, building ships in bottles might be all that, but the mobo might cause some issues.

I have a friend who built a Linux system into a milk crate and loved it. Maybe I can get some pics.

Been thinking about trying to build something around a nano-ITX mobo into a carved wooden box.  Can get some really nice-looking ones from India for chump change in workable sizes (8-10 inches exterior measurements, $20-40).  Hard part is figuring out how to ventilate without ruining the look of the box.

--Dave

If I wanted a new game to put my setup to the test, what should I get? Preferably it'd be something off Steam, but...

If you're into FPS, Crysis and Crysis:Warhead have always been good showcase titles.

How about RPG? I've been hearing Dragon Age (I've also heard bad things :() and The Witcher.

Edit: Also, the THQ collection is on sale on Steam for $50. Dawn of War 2 sounds like it would be cool at 1080p. Yay/nay?

DoW 2 is great and should look sweet, but I don't think it is really that taxing on the system. DO:A is good, yes.

The Sims 3

:why_so_serious:

EDIT: I don't want to buy ATi cards!  Dammit.  I am going to throw a lot of money on two matched cards to fit on a ASUS P6T Deluxe and I'd rather not get ATi.  Any hope for Nvidia to stop sucking soon?

Depends if NVIDIA actually ships the GF100 in March (well, makes the GPU available in sufficient quantities for vendors to make cards with the GPU) and if you can actually find two and have enough power to power them.

The GF100 prototype should be on display at Cebit, including (finally) some benchmarks, as launch is due sometimes mid-march according to the usual leaks on the web. I'm also quite anxious to see thow they turn out.

Count me in the fingers-crossed-for-nvidia camp. Jump to 1080p wasn't as bad as I'd thought but I do miss the headroom my 8800gtx had at 720p. GTX 285 looks decent, but I'd really like some mule kicking for that kinda bread.

Mostly interested in nvidia because I want to play with 3d tech.

I'm looking at some accessories for my PC. Currently I'm running pretty terrible USB kb/m to my system displayed on an HDTV. This is the monitor I'm looking at:

Acer B243HLbmdrz Black 24" 5ms Widescreen White LED backlight LCD Monitor 250 cd/m2 ACM 8,000,000:1 Built-in Speakers - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009203

*I'm also looking at this HP monitor, but it's pretty pricey :(
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/382087-382087-64283-72270-444767-3648442.html

I'm also looking into Filco keyboards. Does anyone have experience with mechanical kbs? Especially in relation to laptop kbs (I haven't had a desktop in years). It's wired, and I'd like wireless, but that's ok becaue I hear they're awesome. Also red escape key = sexy. Mice... I have no idea where to start.

*Edit

Search button, your friend.

According to some early articles on 3d gaming I think youre going to need more graphics firepower than a GF100 based card.  The big problem is that the card has to render each screen twice - once for each eye.  That's a pretty big kick in the guts for graphics performance, even on leading edge systems and especially at higher resolutions. 

It's not bad but the card is running a bit hot. About 90C, used to hit 80C for most games that aren't Crysis. I've been turning off FSAA, which I used to max at 720p: performance seems about the same.

Problem is, single card nvidia solutions aren't performing much better right now, so there's not much of an upgrade path for me. I don't mind spending $$$ for good performance, but $350 for a 10% increase is dumb, especially as it's not future-proof.

That thread scares me.

As nice as Model-Ms might work for you, look like fuckass. I also don't think the clickyclick of the keyboard will work when I'm typing papers. Anyone here use a Filco board?

Also, I am looking for an IPS monitor for my rig. I've found this NEC for $325

http://www.amazon.com/NEC-EA231WMI-BK-NEC-EA231WMI-BK-23-inch-Ws-LCD-1920X1080-1000-1-VGA-Black-14MS-Monitor/dp/B002LARVYK

I'm concerned mostly because I've never seen IPS monitors for <$500, and there are very few places for reviews on these things. Any help?

I've had very good luck with NEC. That said, I have seen some 'budget' NEC monitors that looked like total butt. This is an eIPS (not sure what the e stands for, will google later), so it'll have the usual caveat of slower response times that allegedly will frustrate hardcore gamers. I have an NEC IPS and I play Call of Duty just fine. Sure, I'm not l33t sH0tz McTw1tch, but its never stopped me from having fun. Oh, ya, and this is with a wireless keyboard, which is apparently death to FPS 'purists'.

Summary: If I didn't already have an NEC monitor, I'd buy 3 of these. In fact, I'm considering buying 2 and kicking the GF out of her den so I can set up Eyefinity.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1436160

Good heavens, a 53 page thread on a single monitor. I thought I got excited about monitors...

I  :heart: me some hardocp.  You think that is crazy try reading some of their psu threads.

You think that's crazy, go read Superfuture.

Edit: Example - Here's a 233 page thread on a single clothing company located in Shibuya, JP: http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=52677

Fake Edit: I promise I don't read SuFu.

That monitor is supposedly very good for the price and well suited for gaming. I looked at it myself, but it sadly lacks HDMI, which was a deal-breaker for me.

Would this not work? (http://www.amazon.com/Eforcity-HDMI-F-DVI-M-Adaptor-Contacts/dp/B000E8X5Z0/ref=pd_sim_pc_2) Maybe with this  (http://www.amazon.com/Eforcity-Black-Meter-HDMI-Cable/dp/B000E8SY5Q/ref=pd_bxgy_pc_text_b)too?

The NEC monitor supports DisplayPort which is like HDMI but free to use, and it isn't regulated as heavily.

And, yeah, as far as I can tell you can use HDMI > DVI converters. It's like stripping away the audio jacks in an RCA connection - you end up with just the video. I'm going to be hooking up my PS3 to this monitor with a DVI cable, and I'm looking to see what are the specific audio inputs on the monitor so I can get the right cables. Either that or get a proper audio system instead of the in-monitor speakers.

This computer shit is getting expensive. And I haven't even bought my keyboard yet.

What are you trying to do with audio exactly?  It took me some doing to get my ps3 audio to run through my computer's powered monitors.

I have a 24" monitor w/ my ps3 on HDMI and my computer gpu on AVI.  For Audio I have a M-Audio 2496 with my speakers plugged into output and my ps3 plugged into input.  I can only run ps3 or pc audio, not both and in order to switch I need to open up the soundcard's controls and switch one dropdown menu, like 5 clicks total.  Its not the perfect setup but since I didn't want an amp, 2 sets of speakers, a tv etc. it seemed to be the best I could figure out within my budget at the time.

Right now both my PS3 and computer are in the living room. My GPU on my PC has 2x DVI, DisplayPort, and an HDMI output. I've been swapping the HDMI (and the ethernet cord :-\ I have one of those building wi-fis with 1 ethernet jack in each room. And no router) between the PS3 and the PC. It's super ghetto and stupid. I cannot wait till this monitor comes in.

The current plan is to put the monitor + PC in my bedroom. The reason why I want to hook up a PS3 to the monitor is for when my friends and I play multiple PS3 at my house.

I'm not exactly sure how I want to handle the audio. The best case scenario would be a surround sound headset for each PS3 that isn't so loud that you can still yell at your body (couch co-op!), but that's probably not going to happen. We have a really sweet 5.1 audio setup for the big Plasma, so the first option would just annoy my friend who comes over to LAN/online-coop it.

Also, I use a PlaystationEye for my mic. In addition to being totally underused as a peripheral, it's also like a WiiSpeak for your PS3. It does a good job on its own getting rid of feedback (there is none). But the last time I tried doing that with 2 audio sources (at my friend's house he has a TV + Monitor setup each with separate speakers) there was really horrible feedback.

So! Headset probably would be best. But maybe I'd move the PS3 in the room for movie watching? I dunno. It's up in the air.

Here is a challenge.

I have a friend who wants a new computer for gaming but doesn't want to spend any money.  What is a build for the cheapest top-to-bottom replacement (incl monitor and OS) that can still be considered adequate for gaming into the near future?  Easy Mode < $500, Winrar is < $400, hard mode is < $300.

Tell your friend to save up more money. The monitor and OS is going to take at least half the budget so you are talking about building the "box" for ~$250 - $300.

What Engels linked would work, and there are pretty cheap HDMI > DVI cables available which work too, as long as the DVI input is HDCP capable. Unless you're getting unprotected stuff out of HDMI of course.

Sadly, I need to connect both a PS3 and a computer to it. There are HDMI to DVI cables for consoles available which are cheaper than buing a HDMI one and a HDMI>DVI adapter but DVI>DisplayPort (to connect the computer to a digital input) costs a lot so I'm not buying one of those. There are plenty of adequate TN monitors which are great for gaming at about half the price and without the need to spend additional money on cabling, as my wife is already glowering at me dubiously whenever I talk of purchasing new digital gadgets. Since I'm not doing any picture work that would require 100% Adobe RGB color space or anything the like, I'm still searching for something good. In the end, I was looking at Samsung 2450 or 2494 or a LG 2361.

OTOH, 3D Vision capable displays in 1080p and 24" are getting launched, so I'm back to scheming and planing.

A PS3 and a 21" Monitor with HDMI.

Barely even that on his budget.

$500 isn't that unreasonable for a bargin basement PC.

Regardless, at that point a console is the correct answer. Unless he's interested in MMO's, FPS's, RPG's, or RTS's Blizzard or Valve, a console is pretty much the correct answer anyway. These days, we're mostly just getting console ports with higher res textures and shitty gui's.

I need to replace a GT 7950 (one of its DVI ports no longer works reliably, and lack of dual monitors induces stabbiness in those accustomed to them).  What's the roughly-equivalent nVidia card these days? GT 240? GTS 250? The system only has a 500W power supply, and we'll be building new systems later this year, so I'm not looking for a major step up in video cards.

We're still very leery of ATI cards due to driver-related nightmares.

It is if you want to game on it.

nVidia currently eats shit with a spoon.  I actually really want to try one of their cards someday, but not any time soon I don't think.

Uhm, based on what, exactly? Sure, Nvidia hasn't come out with real new hardware since the 295, but I wouldn't call it shit when you look at the benchmarks. Sure, its overpriced considering a high end 5000 series card does all the 295 does and has DX11 support, but I wouldn't call it crap.

The sad truth of the matter is that Nvidia has always seemed a better card because developers have always made damned sure their game works on Nvidia drivers, while sometimes leaving ATI in the lurch. This is probably going to change, since the more Nvidia is delayed in launching Fermi (the new card line), the more market share ATI is going to get, forcing developers to really work with ATI as much as Nvidia.

Their entire line of cards is underpowered compared to the equivalent dollar value ATi card, forgive the hyperbole.  That, and production shortages messing with prices and availability.

Since ATI's drivers always suck, it doesn't matter that their hardware is better for the price.

I switched back to ATI with the 4870, and have had no issues with the drivers. I'm now running a 5870, still no driver issues.

That NEC monitor I linked above... it's awesome.

Also, portrait mode on 23" 16:9s is absurd.

grats!

I'd like some advise on an upgrade.

I'm wondering if I can get away with a video card and GPU upgrade  or simply buy a new computer.  If an upgrade is possible, any suggestion?

Here's my system  :

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual
Core Processor 4200+
2.21 Ghz, 3.50 GB of RAM
Nvidia 7900GT/GTO
Mother board : Asus M2N-SLI deluxe
Window xp

You're replacing the system, the processor is weak 90mm 1mb l2 cache

On my system I went Intel for the first time, locked myself out of an upgrade path, but picked up a MB and a yorkfield 9550 for 400$ (a quad core Xeon that I can OC to 4gz  :heart: :heart: :heart:), I would have to gone into a i7 for something significantly better.

The i7's are awesome.

What's your budget?

Not much, I was hoping for a 300$ upgrade. If it's not possible, I'll finance a new computer.  It's just bad timing because my GF is on maternity leave.

Overclock that puppy a little bit and add a nice mid level budget graphics card. That would easily give you a nice performance boost for 300 dollars.

If you want to put off getting a new computer, you could pick up a 4850 for around a hundred bucks, and a tower heatsink(or whatever will fit in your case) of the proper socket mount for around 35. With shipping that would come out to around 150. The 4850 is still perfectly capable of running all games as long as you don't max them out or try running them in some multi monitor setup. You'll lose dx10, however. And the x2 overclocks well, and does alright for feeding gpu's, since it was one of the earlier chips to have an imc.

wait, what?

XP.

Oh. Well. I don't think he had DX10 to lose in the first place :)

The 5770 is roughly the same speed if he wants to be forward-compatible with DX11.  It's also at a pretty good point price/performance wise, though the 4850 / 4870 are beasts that way.

SO I know nothing about computers and my PC seems to have died. It was an old Dell Dimension 8400 and it has had some catastrophic mother board failure that seems to be pretty common (fan going into crazy overdrive, that stopped and now it just beeps sadly)

So I need a new PC and have little clue what to buy. I'd probably prefer something with a warranty, I'm not sure I have the expertise or patience to build my own. I was thinking of going with Dell again, since this last PC has been pretty trouble free for 5-6 years, and where I have had trouble their service has been good. I just have no idea what's good value for money, what are good components vs bad, and so on. I could probably afford £800-900 if it's going to last a while.

With respect to use, I'm not expecting to play a ton of high-end games on it. Probably WoW and SCII for the most part. Having something I can also use for work (cpu-intensive modelling) would be a bonus.

Any advice would be welcome, thanks. Even really basic stuff.

From your description, I think this one will do you:

http://configure.euro.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?b=&c=uk&cs=ukdhs1&kc=DRSSX004&l=en&m_30=322642&oc=D00X8104&rbc=D00X8104&s=dhs

High end processor
So-so video card (nothing fancy but can do games). I am confident you can install another one, provided you don't need a super duper one which would tax your Power Supply (if it even has enough power connectors for it)
   

Price      £1,098.00
Total savings*      £269.00

Total      £829.00

   Catalog Number / Description                                                Product Code       Qty       SKU       Id

   Base:
StudioXPS 8100 - Intel Core i7 Processor 860 (2.80GHz, 8MB)       346965       1       [210-30757]       1

   Microsoft Operating System:
Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium 64bit- English                        409483       1       [619-25659]       11

   Services and Support:
1 year of coverage included with your PC                                         322642       1       [754-56815]       30

   Monitor:
Display Not Included                                                                       92239       1       [480-10999]       5

   Memory:
6144MB (2x2GB) (2x1GB)1333MHz DDR3 Dual Channel Memory       294395       1       [370-15901]       3

   Hard Drive:
2TB Dual Hard Drive Raid 0 "Stripe" (2x1TB - 7200rpm)                295460       1       [400-18347]       8

   Video Card:
Graphics Card - Single 1GB Nvidia GeForce GTS 240                         351318       1       [490-11904]       6

   Optical Devices:
DVD +/- RW Drive (read/write CD & DVD) with Roxio Easy CD and
DVD Burn software                                                                          420041       1       [429-15320]       16

   Keyboard:
Dell™ USB Entry Keyboard - UK/Irish (QWERTY)                           255298       1       [580-15212]       4

   Mouse:
Dell 2 Button USB Optical Mouse                                                    214237       1       [570-10750]       12

   Thermal Cooling:
95W Processor Heatsink                                                                     346968       1       [412-10037]       412

   Speakers:
No Speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)          6655       1       [520-10217]       18


   Dell System Media Kit:
Studio XPS 8100 Resource DVD                                                              346957       1       [340-20766]       319


   Sound Cards:
Integrated HDA 7.1 Dolby Digital Audio                                                189326       1       [510-10237]       17

   

I'm firmly in the camp that the i5-750 is the way to go, it's the same core without hyperthreading, some security features which may or may not turn into a massive DRM clusterfuck, and some virtualization features designed to handle DMA in hardware.

Case in point. (http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/62)

It seems that the i7 8xx does a wee tad better than the i5s with 3D modeling. Of course, it all depends on various factors. IF his programs take advantage of hyperthreading, then he's got an edge with an i7 8xx, I suspect.

It's a $90 price difference for almost nothing performance wise even in best case.  Hyperthreading has never impressed me, the TxT security feature makes EA and Sony cackle with glee, and VT-d is superfluous unless you're running demanding modern applications in a virtual environment, where a software layer handling DMA requests just isn't fast enough.

For rendering 3D models HT probably does matter but K9 will need to dig around to see if there are any benchmarks that can confirm that.

Very close. (http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/30)

A more general comparison. (http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/109?vs=108)

The second comparison reveals that there are a shitton of programs that still attempt to use every available core before checking whether it's a logical or a physical core, which really fucking hurts programs that need fast cache access more than parallelism.

Honestly, for just WoW and general office stuff I'd just go for the bottom, one for 400-500£ with a non intel card should run WoW fine.

Dell either goofed up on pricing or wanted to get some old stuff out and I walked away with a 300$ box with a 5 year warranty, it worked fine (not awesomely, but fine).

I could run 25 man raids, do WG and stuff on it fine and this is (now) a 2 year old box.  Granted, my netbook can run WoW, at 2 fps, but it can run WoW.

I seriously wonder what my current machine would do in WoW.

The processor is not something you find you need to replace.  Or maybe it is, now that FSB's have fucked off and died.

I'm considering grabbing one of those very same i5 750 processors.  Suggestions on a good motherboard to go with it?  I wouldn't know a good MB if you beat me over the head with it.

MSI P55-GD65

I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only person that has had great luck with Asus MB's.  I'll take a look at the MSI.

I'm really sold on the i5 and am probably going to upgrade to one soon.  The only thing holding me back is the complete lack of an MMO worth spending time on. 

It's freaking weird that this was exactly the MB I was looking at buying.

I haven't actually seen many truly shitty motherboards, even the manufacturers unwilling to put out a manual in anything other than Engrish are putting out some pretty hot shit for cheap (http://www.anandtech.com/show/3572).

Thanks a lot for the suggestions. PC hardware is one thing I have a glaring blind spot for, so I usually opt for a bigger number = better approach which I suspect is not the right way to go. I might just go ahead and buy this unless anyone has any other suggestions or improvements. I'll come back in due course for upgrade suggestions I guess.

fakeedit: Are dell monitors good value for money? You omitted a monitor from the build which is fine since my old one works fine. Going to two screens is something I would probably be keen to do in the near future. Would I need a different graphics card for that, and is getting a monitor as part of the bundle good value, or should I buy separately?


I honestly wouldn't have a clue what to make of those. The modelling I do is all numerical though, not graphical (science, narf).

Thanks for all the comments!

The GTS 240 can accomodate two monitors:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gts_240_us.html

Two via DVI port. If your current monitor uses VGA, you can purchase a DVI-to-VGA adapter. They aren't expensive.

Since the uproar by Sheephearder and his intense animosity towards all things i7  :grin:, I tried to find an i5 system on the UK site, but I'm not seeing it.

The best thing you can do is to see if your modeling software supports hyperthreading. If it does, the i7 is probably going to be better than the i5. If it doesn't, then the i5 might be better, but who knows.

Dell's monitors are for the most part good. The pricing, as bundled with a system, suggest the purchase of the 23" one (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&sku=320-8299&redirect=1). Its a TN monitor, which generally speaking means good for gaming, not great for video (viewing angles and blacks are a bit weak). Trippy or someone else might know a bit more on this subject, since I've been out of the monitor game for a while.

1. Combine an Intel i5-750 and the Geforce 260 GTX, IMO.  That way you don't have to go card shopping.
2. Dell monitors are usually pretty good.
3. HT doesn't consistently perform better at anything, even where it should be a clear upgrade like file compression it can be +/- 20%, completely depending on what software you use.

EDIT:

We write it ourselves, so I'm going to guess no  :grin:

Thanks again for all the suggestions and help.

I'd go with Sheepherder's build. For the same amount of money, you get a much more beefy video card.

My ATI 4850 512mb just melted and I'm wondering if there is a bottleneck in my system for a video card upgrade/downgrade.  Similar to Aez:
 
AMD X2 64 5000+ oc'd to 3.0ghz
4GB DDR2 800 ram
Asrock 939Dual-Sata2 mobo cobbled together with its daughter card

90% of GPU failures are due to insufficient or failing power supplies. What are your PSU's stats?

Antec earthwatts 500W (ea-5000)

That's a decent brand and a decent wattage.

So, ya, I think if you were running a 4000 series card without issue, you can comfortably upgrade to a 5k series and see improvements. Your CPU isn't omgwtfbbq aswome, but its on par with a E6xxx series C2D processor. You may not get the absolute best performance with that CPU, so its probably a bottleneck, but you'd still get an improvement. How much is hard for me to say, other than looking at artificial benchmarks that won't quite match your hardware config.

After many years, considering a new case.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139001

Undecided.  I want my next case to last at least ten years.

Decided.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163089

What made you decide for the Silverstone over the Corsair? That Corsair looked pretty sweet to me.

Confirmed a removable mobo plate.  I suppose the user endorsement was what sold me.  I felt we connected.

I was in the market for a new laptop, but realized I never take the thing anywhere anyway. So I decided to go for a desktop. Here are the parts. I tried this once in the past and it failed miserably, so instead of spending months researching and waiting and pining for tech that isnt out yet, or scrutinizing every detail of my build, I would rather just get it over with as fast as possible (even if that isnt the proper mindset). If someone could give it a quick once over to make sure I'm not missing something major that would be good.

Also, if anyone knows how to shave off a few $ for due to my lack of foresight, that is welcome too.
And is neweggs return policy for monitors still the no less than 5 dead pixels BS that it used to be? I looked and didnt see it anywhere.
Thanks

Case: COOLER MASTER COSMOS 1000 RC-1000-KSN1-GP Black/ Silver Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case
Model #:RC-1000-KSN1-GP
Item #:N82E16811119138
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$169.99
      
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Model #:WD6401AALS
Item #:N82E16822136319
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$74.99   
      
Monitor: ASUS VH242H Black 23.6" 5ms HDMI Full 1080P Widescreen LCD Monitor
Model #:VH242H
Item #:N82E16824236052
Return Policy:Monitor Standard Return Policy
In Stock
Mail in Rebate Card
$199.99
      
Memory: G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL
Model #:F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL
Item #:N82E16820231277
Return Policy:Memory Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$107.00       
      
Mobo: ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Model #:P6X58D Premium
Item #:N82E16813131614
Return Policy:Limited Replacement Only Return Policy
In Stock
$299.99
      
CPU: Intel Core i7-920 Bloomfield 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor BX80601920
Model #:BX80601920
Item #:N82E16819115202
Return Policy:CPU Replacement Only Return Policy
In Stock
$279.99
      
PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power ...
Model #:CMPSU-750TX
Item #:N82E16817139006
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
Mail in Rebate Card
$109.99
      
GPU: ASUS EAH5870/2DIS/1GD5/V2 Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support ...
Model #:EAH5870/2DIS/1GD5/V2
Item #:N82E16814121374
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
Mail in Rebate Card
$409.99
      
CD/DVD: ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM
Model #:DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS
Item #:N82E16827135204
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy

My only thought is that your motherboard and cpu are set up for triple channel. I don't know if you -have- to use 3 sticks, but I believe that's what your mobo and CPU are ideally set up for.

nice
replaced the ram with this

CORSAIR XMS3 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TR3X6G1600C9
Model #:TR3X6G1600C9
Item #:N82E16820145222

Better brand anyways.

If you want to save a few bucks you might look at an i5 750 system, yeah?  (See further on up the thread)

So I just ordered some parts to upgrade my pc on the cheap to try to play some of these steam games I've purchased recently.  I already had a case/monitor and whatnot but what I'm not sure about (and don't know how to find out really) is if the 380w psu in my current case is enough to power this thing.  Any pointers on figuring that out?

Here's what i ordered:
- GIGABYTE GA-H55M-UD2H LGA 1156 Intel H55 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
- GeIL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10660) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model GV34GB1333C9DC
- Intel Core i3-530 Clarkdale 2.93GHz LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80616I3530
- Western Digital AV-GP WD5000AVDS 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal AV Hard Drive -Bare Drive
- EVGA 01G-P3-1158-TR GeForce GTS 250 1GB 256-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

Came out to $480 shipped with another $40 in rebates. 

The i5-750 is ~$90 cheaper for almost the exact same processor.  The added features of the i7 are negligible for most people.


What's the brand on the PSU?

Antec ... Came with my Sonata 1 which is many years old at this point.  If its even going to be questionable I'll upgrade it, just would like to know how big and how to figure that out.

Link (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article61-page1.html)

I'd say no.  18 Amps @ +12V is probably cutting it very close even for a new PSU.  That number should probably be closer to 30.

Seasonic and Silverstone are very good brands.  Corsair rebrands Seasonic PSU's.  A 550 watt from any of these brands will run most SLI systems.

Not all Corsairs are/were Seasonics. Some are/were CWTs (I haven't checked recently to see who Corsair is using for what models).

The GTS 250 draws 150 W power max. So on the +12V line(s) that works out to 12.5A, just for the GPU. As said Sheepheader that's cutting it pretty close considering all the other devices that will draw +12V from that line.

Right! Thanks for the info.  I'll grab a 550w from Frys on the way home.

Also... I just found this which helped clear things up for me:
http://educations.newegg.com/tool/psucalc/index.html

I've heard newegg is real shitty about monitor replacements. I bought all my parts for my PC at newegg except the monitor which I got at Buy.com because of their dead pixel policies. Amazon replaced my brothers 42" Samsung HDTV for free, so check them out, too.

So, the GF's 4 year old Dell's PSU's fan is giving out, so instead of replacing the PSU, we were thinking of just me building her a system. She plays Dragon Age and will be playing Fallout Vegas till doomsday, so she's gotta have a fairly decent gaming rig. Goal is decent gaming with legs but with an eye on the pocket book.

She already has a GPU, and we have a case and DVD drive. We would have to purchase the rest. How does this look to you guys?

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/82194/newegg.JPG)

Looking at Dell, it looks like I'd have to spend more, even tho I'd get a new GPU and monitor with the deal. We really really don't need those.

What's the GPU she has now?

What OS? Because the 4GB will not be visible to the OS without a 64bit OS.

Trippy, she currently has a Core Duo. Yep, without a 2 in it. One of the first dual cores out there. It does ok, but her Dell PSU (the one with the failing fan) is just barely able to meet the power needs of her 9600GT card, so its in our interest to upgrade her system to have a more powerful PSU for a video card in her not too distant future.

Fuser, we have access to both 64 and 32 bit Windows 7. We will probably go with 64 bit. She doesn't do anything more demanding than gaming, so I figure 4 gig is fine for her. We can always buy more ram later.

Why not get a new GPU now too then? The 9600GT is pretty gimpy by today's standards. What resolution does she run at?

Building new PC, since my starving-student friend managed to munch old one off me:

CPU: AMD HDT55TFBRBOX Phenom II 1055T Six Core Processor
Mobo: ??? Strongly prefer ASUS and willing to pay premium for it
Video Card: ASUS Geforce GTX480
Sound: Creative Labs SB0886 PCI Express Sound Blaster
Memory: Corsair or Kingston Triple Channel 12GB
Power Supply: ??? Strongly prefer Antec and willing to pay preminum for it
Caste: Antec-300 or ???

Goals: Gaming on high-resolution monitor, movies and very occasional matlab number crunching.

I need help with motherboard selection. I don't plan on ever going 2x (or 3x) video cards, yet I need something that will be reasonably future-proof.

Any help is appreciated.

GTX 480?  I think you'd actually get better performance (and spend just a little less money) by running 2 of the new 1GB GTX 460s in SLI, but apparently SLI isn't supported on AMD mobos (sorry - I've been shopping Intel pretty much exclusively).

As for the mobo, might as well go bleeding edge (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131644) if you're willing to drop $500 on the gfx.

She's got an old 4:3 aspect ratio monitor from NEC that's got a very good image quality. She loves it, so I'm not pushing that angle. You're right that she'll need a new vid card soon enough, but right now we're focusing on the core of the system.

As I alluded to earlier, I'm also putting together a new PC.  Here's what I've got so far - just looking for outside opinions:

CPU:  Intel Core i5-760 ($210)
Motherboard:  MSI P55-GD65 ($160)
PSU:  XFX Black Edition P1 750W ($90)
Video:  Gigabyte GTX-460 1GB OC ($220) (may add a second down the road)
HDD:  WD Caviar Black 1TB ($90)
RAM:  G.SKILL ECO Series 2x2GB (will add a matching set if needed) ($96)

I doubt it. It has to run at 1920×1080. Also my past experiences with SLI/Crossfire is that it is waste of money for 2/3 of apps/games out there. I don't want to build something that will work 'teh best' for 1-2 games today, I want system that will work well for next 2 years for all games, and something that I will be able to migrate in parts to other computers when I upgrade down the road without having.

As far as graphic card, what would be comparable setup using ATI cards? Did ATI ever fix driver issues?

(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z303/Patekki/facepalm.jpg)

Last ATI card I owned, I ripped out of my rig and threw against the wall. I am not too eager to relive that expirience, so its pretty much Nvidia or GTFO, so in my mind real question is 470, 480 or 2x460 when running at 1920×1080 ( or was it 1920x1200? my laptop chokes trying to power it, so it waiting for new PC)

I've been using an HD4850 with zero issues for some time.  

The only comparable AMD hardware to the GTX480 is either the HD5970/2x 5970 in CF or something stupid like the Asus Ares (http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-ares-review/) ($1200 and it weighs 5 fucking pounds).

Anand's tests (http://www.anandtech.com/show/3810/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-part-2-the-vendor-cards/7) seem to indicate that the revised Fermi architecture is an improvement over the GF100 cards, so it'll be interesting to see what happens when they apply it to the high end versus the midrange users they're targeting with the 460.

That said, you're starting with an AMD CPU, so any SLI discussion is largely irrelevant.

My last rig was AMD (started with X2 4800 eventually upgraded to Phenom 4x 9850 for $100-ish with bios flash) with Nvidia 280 running on M3A mobo. I was 100% happy with it throughout its life, the best PC I ever built. I want more of it.

I *really* like the fact that AMD doesn't do 'socket dance', so with AMD you have mobo/ram setup that is very upgradable down the road. Intel pretty much un-upgradable, hotter and not nearly as stable.

I would go with at least 8GB of RAM.

Aha!

SLI-capable AMD board! (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131636)

Tragically, any of the nForce AMD boards don't seem to also support Crossfire (that I can see) so you'll have to pick a side and stick with it.

As for the 8GB thing, I plan on it since it's cheap.  Just figure since I can get a solid gaming PC with 4GB, I can add that after the initial build.

I have that same basic rig, and with the exception of some issues with my mobo (which is being RMA'd next week) that seem to be the exception rather than the rule, you'll LOVE it.  I would pop for the GTX470, though.

MAKE SURE YOU GET RAM THAT HAS BEEN VETTED BY MSI'S QVL.

Interesting.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/graphics-card-geforce-radeon,2646-6.html

Tom's hardware suggests Two Radeon HD 5830 in CrossFire Configuration as current the best setup/cost with honorable mentions to 480. What is the difference between 5850 and 5830?

In the past I had issues finding matching dual-channel memory, surprisingly enough, not all dual-channel memory even from the same manufacturer will work well together as dual-channel pairs.

I would also go for more reputable brand - Kingston, OCZ, Corsair. Server guys I work with swear by Kignston, not sure how well that translates to consumer market...

I spent ages searching MSI's site for the QVL list to no avail.  I can't imagine that G.Skill is not on there somewhere.  I just like the low voltages that the ECO series will acceptably run at, which gives lots of headroom for fucking around at more extreme settings.

I also admit that anything with a 1" talll metal comb attached to it was immediately DQ'd for being both retarded and blocking me from using a huge CPU cooler.

Another question:

Western Digital 300 GB VelociRaptor SATA 10,000 RPM (I have nothing but good things to say about WD Raptors, my first one 74G one is still running strong and fast!)

or

Kingston SSDNow V Series 128 GB

?

If you're on a board that supports SATA6, get the SSD and drop your OS and games on it.  Otherwise I'd just get Caviar Black drives for pretty much everything.

Here you go (http://www.msi.com/uploads/test_report/TR10_1846.pdf).  It's under the Test Reports (http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=prodtestreport&maincat_no=1&cat2_no=&cat3_no=&prod_no=1846) tab.

Intel Core i5 661 3.33 GHz Clarkdale (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115217): dual core with HT. I picked it because it uses 35 nm tech and that's hot, or actually, less hot than the 45nms I'm seeing. At least I think it is. Also like that with the board I picked, it'd have onboard graphics so there's no panic in the streets if the dedicated GPU blows up.

Opinions on that CPU?

Feedback please:

CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 - I like AMD sockets since I know it will be reasonably future-proof
Mobo: ASUS Crosshair IV - it has good on-board sound, so I don't need discrete sound card; otherwise it has to have SATA 6GB, DDR3 and USB3
Video: ASUS  HD 5850 x2 - not much price difference between 5830 and 5850, my preference is a single card; but all mobos with features I want come with SLI/Crossfire.
Ram: Kingston HyperX T1 DDR3 - 2133 MHz x4 8G; mobo VQL doesn't explicitly states it supports 4Gig 2000 or 2130 ram... strange still to be using 2G sticks in year 2010
PSU: Corsair CMPSU-750TX 750-Watt  ;i s this enough?
HDD: Kingston SSDNow V Series 128 GB
Case: Cooler Master HAF 932 - something big enough to no need water cooling

Is there a way to get comparable performance cheaper? Ended up more than I wanted to spend.

What happened to Hybrid SLI or Hybrid Crossfire technology? Would something like M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 used with single ATI card force it into 8x mode or slower speeds? Any benefit to using it?

Why are you getting crossfire, if you don't mind my asking? Have you had good luck with it in the past? Why not go for a single 5970, for instance? Price is about the same, and you sidestep potential compatibility issues, not to mention the blocked airflow and additional heating issues.

Also, it seems that you want a lot of video firepower. Do you have a huge monitor, or various huge monitors?

I have 24 inch 2ms display and I play FPSs competitively, so keeping frame rate up at all times is crucial for aiming.

I have not had luck with crossfire or sli in the past, my latest experiences was 2x 260 Nvidas that I ended returning for 280 that I used ever since. You'd hope things matured over last couple years.

I am getting crossfire because mobo supports it. Maybe I should reconsider.

When you say competitively, do you mean you turn down all eyecandy to get maximum performance? I'm no expert, but I think you'd do fine with a 5870. Then I'd go for dual SSDs SATA 6 in Raid 0.

Ok, finalized my build.

***************************************

Mobo:  ASUS M4A89TD  (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131655&Tpk=M4A89TD%20PRO%2fUSB3)

CPU:  AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition Thuban 3.2GHz  (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103849)

RAM:  Kingston HyperX 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600  (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104173)

GPU:  MSI R5970-P2D2G Radeon HD 5970  (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127467&cm_re=5970-_-14-127-467-_-Product)

Sound:  Creative Labs PCI Express Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium  (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102019)

HDD:  WD SiliconEdge Blue  (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820250002)

PSU:  XFX Black Edition XPS-850W  (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207001)

CASE:  COOLER MASTER HAF 922  (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119197)

$2,152.91 from egg.

Here's the case mod you need -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcpHV318gxo
 :drill: :drill: :drill: :drill: :drill: :drill: :drill:

What a beast.  

Based on Engels' advice I picked up a 5770 to replace my 4850.  That quickly turned into an excuse to replace my motherboard since one of its PCI slots died.  Nevermind I had another slot available.

I picked up a Gigabyte MA785GM-US2H (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128394&cm_re=gigabyte_motherboard-_-13-128-394-_-Product) because I wanted to reuse my AMD Athlon 64 X2 processor and DDR2 RAM but I wanted the AM3 upgrade option.  Which was a mistake for my wallet because now I realize I can get $40 off a processor with this motherboard which compels me to look at an AMD Phenom II X2 555 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103846&cm_re=amd_555-_-19-103-846-_-Product).

Update:  this Gigabyte motherboard is pretty great and I would recommend it to anyone looking for an upgrade path with older system parts.  Micro ATX, 4 DDR2 slots, AM2 / AM2+ / AM3 compatible, and all the drivers loaded in Windows 7 automagically.  Coming from an old AsRock board this is fancy town.

This board got my Athlon to 3.2ghz stable and I'm going for 3.4ghz next.  This setup will do just fine until I find out if Diablo 3 will noticeably benefit from a quad-core.

Starting to consider an upgrade now that my system is nearing four years old. Main reason is really the upgrade from 720p to 1080p; looks great but it's starting to stress my system. Here's my idears, pretending I have money to actually do this. Upgraded parts would be C2D e6600, 4GB DDR2 800, ASUS P5WDH Deluxe, EVGA 8800GTX 756MB.

i5 750
4GB Crucial DDR3 1600
ASUS P7P55D-E Pro
ASUS 480 GTX 1.5GB

Carrying over my old case (Antec P180), sound card (fatality x-fi), psu (PP&C 610W 12V@49A), hdds and opticals etc. Going nvidia because I like 3d Vision, going ASUS mobo because that's what I always use. Cash register says about 950 bones.

Looks good to me. I have a similar older system and this looks just about what I'd upgrade to, with the probable difference is that I'd go for a i7, but that's somewhat academic for gamers.

That said, just read an article on Sandy Bridge, the new 35 nm mid range processor line from Intel that's meant to come out in Q1 2011. It gave me pause because although the performance isn't THAT much better, the chipsets they will have for them, the P67 and the H67, will have 2 native SATA3 ports. Right now Sata3 is somewhat gimped because it relies on a 3rd party onboard controller chip from Marvel.

Naturally, the new Sandy Bridge will take YET ANOTHER socket type.

Have had this sitting in my cart for about a week. Aside from adding an optical drive, any comments or critiques? Probably won't upgrade for another 5 years again or so.

Looks about right to me. Is the plan to store files and install games on the 1T drive, leave the 64GB SSD drive for the OS?

Skip the SSD (IMHO), ditch that 300 case.  It's flimsy as hell.  Go with a better PSU.  Pick up an aftermarket CPU cooler (Hyper 212, or whatever is the hot shit these days.  I use a Corsair H50 on a push/pull exhaust combination and love it).

I am actually not happy with my Radeon HD 5970 - ATI drivers are still garbage, I am getting all kinds of texture glitches in SC2. Researching problem *drummroll* its a DRIVER ISSUE! Tiger never changes its stripes - I should have went with Nvidia.

As to Athlon X6 - I have nothing bad to say about it. Cheap, quiet, stable and stock cooler is 100% adequate, so you don't have to upgrade it unless you OC.

SSD is pure joy, I got slow-ish WD SSD (its not prone to 'used' performance degradation) and it is significantly faster than my old Raptor. If your system can support 6Gig sata, go for it. Loading OS in 10 seconds or completing full virus scan in under 2 minutes is pure joy.

I figured on the 64gb SSD I would have the OS and whatever game I'm playing. 1tb would be for everything else such as music, movies, etc.

I guess if you are in the habit of uninstalling a game as soon as you're interested in another, that's ok. I've found that I am never quite ready to part with one game, even if there's a new shiny that's caught my attention. 64 Gb might leave you little wiggleroom, especially considering how huge game installs are nowadays.

Also, beware sinij's recommendation of 6Gig sata; some intel socket motherboards 'support' sata3, but the chipset doesn't; its being done by an on-board add-on controller by Marvel or someshit, and the performance isn't good. He has an AMD machine, which does have plenty of native SATA3 support.

I've never been able to play more than one game at a time, my brain just can't do it for some reason. It's the whole reason why I still have a 20gb 360, I only ever have one game installed to the HD. I might move up to a larger SSD, my max budget is around $2000 but to hit that I'd have to go nuts.

Might want to look in to doing SLI with 2x 460s. The performance is just about the same on the benches (leaning in favor of the 460s), and you save $100 to $150.

Anandtech bench comparison (http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/158?vs=181)

I've never been a fan of SLI. Some games don't use it very well, and it just makes twice the noise and puts off twice the heat.

The theory that you can keep current by buying a 2nd card and SLIing them later for cheap doesn't work out either, as the cards become more expensive because they are older and use old ram and such.

I head that in general the 460 does very very well for its price point, with the possible exception of having half the tesselation of a 470/480 card. I guess running it in SLI would overcome that limitation.

I personally would like to hear from folks that have either the 460 or the other 400 series cards.

Here is a build I put together on newegg a few weeks ago.


Total was around $1650

I agree with you 100%. But, I have heard that the 460s SLI very very well. Its one of the first cards to make buying current gen SLI a viable option and not just good for the 3dMark junkies.


I have a EVGA 460. The card is nice. It runs very quiet and low temp compared to my old 8800GTX (original model). I can run most games at all settings on max, except high shaders. I run 1900x1200 res on a 30 inch monitor. For a mid range $200 card it runs great. I am planning to upgrade my system soonish, and add another one in SLI. My first time ever.

I've not been a fan for the same reasons. I have the side of my case off due to the heat my 8800gtx pumps out on my current game of choice. And I;ve always had good luck splurging on the best gpu tech at the time, I've never been unhappy with gpu performace going that route back to the very first generation of 3d accelerators. Back then I did have 2 gpu's though, because there were two different ways of rendering, some games liked one, some like the other, so I'd swap out and boot off disks to configure the machine. Remember boot disks? Whee.

Anyway, yeah. Big bad gpu, slab o memory and fat pipeline, as many shader units as they can stuff on. Good times. The 8800gtx is still a pretty awesome card, it's mostly because I upgraded the monitor that newer games are starting to show some cracks, there's a bunch of stuff coming out that will stress it...and I want to play in THREEE DEEE (meaning doubling the workload).

I'd rather upgrade the memory in a bit (especially if prices can finally deflate a little), and the i5 looks like a good gaming cpu. And of course, saving a bunch of dough on the carry-overs, this would be the first time I haven't built from scratch, but I'm getting quite the collection of old systems and my house is small. I will probably move the C2D system into the old Athlon enclosure just to use my awesome old coolermaster wavemaster case again.

Just in case.

Guru 3d Review of 460 SLi (http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-460-sli-review/1)

Page 16 or so shows the noise and such.

Not to mention the higher PSU requirement. I'd not venture into SLI land without an 850 Watt PSU or above.

I've been going back and forth between 6gb and 12gb but I don't know if I want to spend that much on RAM or if it's worth it.

I can see the appeal of it, but until I can use one for all of my storage needs, I'm not going to bother with one.  My PC goes from a power down state to desktop in about 20-25 seconds.  Shaving 10 seconds off that won't do anything for me.   And all my viri scans and whatnot are doing while I'm sleeping.  Personally, I'd rather spend the money elsewhere.  Like the new Corsair 600t case:

That case is a sexy beast.  I could see being happy with that for a decade.

Is that CPU cooler a watercooler or a new type of air cooled?

NM, I found it on newegg. Its a mini stand alone watercooler.

Actually, two of those evga 460s on the egg would only be $20 cheaper than the single asus 480.

I take back what I said about RAM prices deflating, they're pretty good right now. I think 12GB is a bit overkill, 6 would be plenty. I'd like to add 4 more GB to my setup, but that's a pretty easy upgrade unless things go crazy. Prices aren't back to where I got the 4GB kit for $65, but whatchagonnado? I use the current kit in my machine to judge where the market is, admittedly a rough gauge, but it's ok for generalizing. Right now that kit is selling for $93, down from about $120 earlier this year. In 2007 when I built the pc, 2GB was $340  :oh_i_see: Glad that pricing balloon passed.

I don't like it when people seem like they are trying to save a few bucks by off branding the PSU.

You should be fine with 6gb. That was personal preference for me. My current system has 8gb in it, and I personally wouldn't want less, but there doesnt seem to be a way to optimally get triple channel with 8gb. So 12gb it is for me.

My system would have 4 in it, upgraded to 8 later. Are you running lots of 64 bit apps?

A decent amount.

Yup, it's what I'm using at the moment, but I switched to Gentle Typhoons on a push/pull arrangement (fan/rad/fan).   Superduper quiet and keeps my CPU nice and cool, and keeps the case uncluttered and easy to work in.  I honestly can't recommend it enough.

I guess I've never really considered Thermaltake as off brand.  :headscratch:

Yeah, I've used several thermaltakes in the last few years, they make a good psu.

I have one of the Corsair H50 units I picked up stupidly cheap a few months ago, haven't installed it yet though.

Ya, Thermaltake isn't an off brand.

That case picture is terribly misleading. All the red/black makes it look sexy, but none of that comes with it.

Boo.

Well, ya, the motherboard is gonna be whatever color it is. As is the video card. I don't exactly feel mislead, tho.

This one would do the trick:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131642

What I dont understand is why Corsair spent so much time on making the inside of the case look really nice, with all the black texture and color and cable management and then they dont include a window on that case.

Now, I'm not one to demand a windowed case and all the glowing lights and stuff, but it seems an odd choice on corsairs part.

Well, they probably just paint or powder the whole box at once, it would cost more to just paint the exterior. And cable management, it's usually more about air flow than teh pretty (only the cpu appears to be water-cooled).

I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of the parts for my new PC which should be arriving today:
Core:

• CPU - Core i7-930 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115225) - $289.99
• Motherboard - ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366 Intel X58 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131614) - $294.99
• RAM - Corsair XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB) Triple Channel DDR3 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145235) - $299.99
• Video Card - XFX HD-587X-ZNFC Radeon HD 5870 1GB DDR5 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150476) - $389.99
• Case - Cooler Master Cosmos S (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119150) - $179.99
• Monitor - Hanns·G 28" LCD Monitor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254043) - $299.99
• System Drive = Crucial RealSSD C300 256GB SATA III SSD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148349) - $569.99
• Media Drive - Seagate Barracuda 1.5TB 7200 RPM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148337) - $79.99
• PSU - XION Supernova 800W (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817190016) - $96.49
• CPU Cooler - Zalman Ultra Quiet Cpu Cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118019) - $45.24
• Optical Drive - ASUS Internal 24x DVD Rewritable SATA Optical Drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204) - $23.99
• Normal Mouse - Logitech Anywhere Mouse MX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104320) - $49.99
• Gaming Mouse - RAZER Mamba - Dual Mode Wired/Wireless Functionality (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826153048) - $129.99
• Mouse Pad - RAZER Vespula Dual Sided Gaming Mouse Mat (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826999074) - $34.99
• Headset - Logitech Wireless Gaming Headset G930 with 7.1 Surround Sound (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003VANOFY) - $159.99
• OS - Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116754) - $99.99

Total: $3,044.60

This is definitely the most expensive computer I've ever built, and especially the highest relative performance. My last computer 4 years ago clocked in around $1400. Splurging on an SSD really didn't help the price. I know if I wait 3 more months I can get a cheaper/higher capacity SSD and god knows what other new shit, but I've been playing that waiting game for a year. 160gb isn't big enough for a system drive for me so I had to either skip the SSD or lay out for an expensive 200gb+ mofo. The SSD I decided on specifically because it's the only SATA3 to hit the market so far and Anandtech gave it a decent endorsement (http://www.anandtech.com/show/3812/the-ssd-diaries-crucials-realssd-c300) - "If you’re running Windows 7, have a 6Gbps controller and want a 256GB drive, go Crucial. If you’re running any other OS, are using RAID or can only afford a 128GB drive, go SandForce."

Some of the stuff I bought is definitely out beyond the price/performance sweet spot, but most of it isn't really. Some of it, especially the mouses and headset, are unnecessary creature comforts, but I wanted to go all out on a new computer for once now that I have a bit of spare money. With my computer using habits, some of the stuff that seems exorbitant probably won't be, like the RAM. I work as a freelance web developer and it is common for me to be mixing business and pleasure and it's faster for me to leave applications open than to open and close and reopen them (on this computer anyway, maybe not with the new rig/SSD). Having Photoshop in the background taking up a few gigs, development environment, three+ web browsers each with a dozen or more tabs, Eve open to check chat/market orders, and then TF2 windowed on top of all that and I expect I can do that 12gigs of RAM justice. I had 6gb before and it was at about the limit of fucking with my productivity, then a stick failed and I've been at 4gb. That has been very annoying, forcing me to close a lot of shit and greatly increasing the time it takes to switch tasks.

I'm really looking forward to trying out the headset. I've been using the Plantronics Audio 995 (http://www.amazon.com/Plantronics-Audio-995-Wireless-Headset/dp/B001SEQN3U) for the last year and a half and I've loved it. Sound/mic quality as good or better than any other $30-60 wired headset I've owned and it's actually lived longer than almost any wired headset I've owned funnily enough. The new Logitech one looks amazing and fixed every issue that I had with the Plantronics one, while providing significantly higher quality audio. You can use it while it charges via USB (Logitech one is not usable while charging, arggg). It has three configurable buttons on it which you can use for stuff like Ventrillo push to talk, so you can be on the shitter or in the kitchen talking on Vent (no I wouldn't actually use it in the bathroom).

As for the mouses, I got really used to using the Logitech VX Nano (http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Cordless-Laser-Mouse-Notebooks/dp/B000TKHBDK/) at my last job and the Anywhere Mouse is the supposed successor to it. I really like the small form factor, light weight, and free spinning mousewheel for general computer usage and web development. It's not really good for gaming though. Enter the Mamba which is one of the first wireless mice to have the dual wireless/wired mode so when I forget to charge it I'm not fucked. The mouse life difference between the two is kind of hilarious, giving you an idea of the difference in power requirements between the lasers. The Anywhere mouse should go for about 100 days on two AA batteries (the VX Nano went up to 150 days on two AAA's, ridiculous) whereas the Mamba will go for maybe 18 hours on a full charge.

I await both the FedEx and UPS delivery trucks, as my order was sourced from 5 separate distribution facilities and was annoyingly shipped using both of them.

Why don;'t you just have a workstation and game box, control with kvm?

Well there's a lot of overlap between the two since my work also makes use of a lot of RAM and Photoshop utilizes a GPU. I wouldn't just be able to cut out of most everything for a barebones workstation. I'd still have to load it with 6gb of RAM and a $100+ graphics card. The only thing I'd have chosen to slim down on my gaming box would be the RAM if I wasn't using it for work.

Have you seen if the SATA III SSD will run well with the 3rd party chipset on your motherboard? I've read somewhere (can't remember where, anand, twit, somewhere) that the 3rd party controllers for SATAIII aren't really all that for speed.

I find 'one step down from most expensive' is by far better strategy than bleeding edge you went for. Cost per benefit hits really hard diminishing returns near the very top. Paying 3G for PC these days is excessive, and that comes from "money not an issue" dude.

Your system is a good choice, but you severely overpaid on SSD, headset. mouse and mousepad ($35 pad, wtf, does it give out BJs?). Return these  and get 128G WD SSD that doesn't suffer from performance degradation with use for fraction of the cost, get 5$ pad, 99$ professional KOSS wired headphones and 50$ logitech gaming mouse.

Also don't throw good money on no-name screen, it will outlive all your other components so this is the last place you want to save. You want 120Hz for 3D or 2ms for gaming from major brand like Samsung/Vewsonic.

I agree with all that except the headphone part. I have heard those headphones are amazing. I am actually considering picking up a pair for myself. One of the main reasons being I have a tiny desk and I am constantly getting tangled in my headphone cord.

SSD - A couple notes here. I'm not an expert on this stuff, but my understanding of how TRIM works and based on a read of the Anand article is that it won't be an issue for me given that I'm on Windows 7 and based on my usage pattern. The cost per gigabyte seems pretty much in line with the rest of the pack so I don't think it's overpriced on that metric. As for size, my old system drive was an old 160gb HDD and I often enough had to uninstall games and programs that, while I wasn't using them at the time, I knew I would be at some point in in the next couple months just to not fill up the drive. I've held off on getting an SSD system drive up to now because I knew I'd need one over 200gb or I'd just keep hitting the same issue. I know I paid out the ass for it, but I had basically vowed not to get a new computer unless the system drive was an SSD, and that SSD was over 200gb. I waited probably a year longer than I would have just so the prices came down from astronomical to "just" ridiculous. I almost put off the purchase to wait for Intel's third generation drives at the end of the year but I just couldn't take the performance issues anymore.

Headset - I will never go back to a wired headset and the choices for wireless are basically between the one I already had and the G930. It's just a personal bugaboo but I fucking hate the feeling of wires draping down from my head and I rejoiced the day I got the Plantronics Audio 995. I could have just not upgraded but I decided that if I was selling the farm I might as well go the extra mile. Having used it now for a couple days, I am definitely happy with my purchase.

Gaming Mouse - This is one of the lesser justified purchases for sure. It's a really fucking expensive mouse. It has a glowy base station though... In the past I just didn't have a gaming mouse. There are creature comforts that come with it, like having a wide range of laser DPI's to easily switch between, but the cost isn't really justified. Not sure what I'd get in it's place, the Anywhere Mouse really isn't suited to gaming. Probably just a regular wireless mouse in the $50-70 range like you said (dislike wires on mice too, I don't like wires on shit I need to move).

Mouse Pad - I decided to get it after trying out my roommate's older version. I would have thought the same without having tried it, but I really really like the feel of it.

Monitor - I kind of was looking at it as a hold-me-over purchase to move my old 1650x1050 monitor to secondary. Monitors seem to kind of be in flux now with the introduction of 120Hz/3D/etc. and I plan to buy two more monitors in the next 6-12 months once I have a better grasp on what I want to do. At that point this one can be relegated to second or third string.


I definitely went beyond my usual (and yours) bleeding edge minus a step or two. Not quite into crazy ass $1000 processor and dual $700 video card land, but going down that path.

Go Sennheiser or go home.

I just checked their site, I dont see any wireless headsets, only wireless headphones.

Wireless stereo headsets are a rare breed.

On this, I have to agree. I believe the older version you're talking about is the Razer Exactmat. I have one of them and it is awesome. I used to just use the basic shitty blue pads thinking anything larger would suck and not really be useful while the material didn't matter at all, I found I was wrong when I randomly bought the exactmat during a sale. I have a hard time gaming on regular mouse pads now, especially at the mouse sensitivity I'm using as a result of a "premium" mousepad.

$600 for an SSD? 
 
:-o

I salute you sir, for thou art a true gamer.

Yes, brave souls like him is why we can get technology much, much cheaper down the line...

Thank you sir, you are gentlemen and a scholar.

I'm curious as to the Mamba and whether it has a way to change the battery, a detail I have not been able to find on the website which makes me think it cannot be changed at all.  I ask because I currently have a Logitech MX Revolution, which I am quite fond of, but its battery life is growing ever shorter.  Early on I was able to use it for a couple days without recharging and these days it gives me a critical battery warning within a single day.  So when I do replace my mouse, I hope to replace it with one that I can change the battery on.

Of course, at least I could just run the mamba in wired mode permanently if it came to that.  I really don't see the point of a wireless mouse most of the time, and I would have gotten a wireless one of these if the features of the MX Revolution had been available on a wired mouse when I got it.  If I do replace it, I'm going to miss the freespin wheel.

Soldering iron.

If it's getting replaced anyways you might as well wreck it beyond repair in the name of science.

You can easily change the battery on the mamba assuming you can find a replacement. 

IMHO (been using it for about a year) this mouse isn't worth $75 much less $130, then again I don't use the macro features and never go above 1800 DPI.  Occasionally In Photoshop it does come in handy to be able to slow the mouse down with a click of a button, but my new Logitech mouse does that too.  The scroll wheel squeaks like a real mouse (aka a cheap piece of plastic) and it has some serious friction to it so it is cumbersome to scroll large distances.  The glowy charging station was cool but my always on USB ports are on the front of my box and I hate plugging crap in there. I run out of juice regularly and 95% of the time I don't bother switching back to wireless so the glowy base station sits there like a dead hunk of plastic (at least the wire is nice and long and high quality).

On the other hand my performance MX goes for a week or 2 between charges (as opposed to a day or 3), is much more ergonomic, has a great build quality and generally blows the razor away in all aspects except for macros (which I do not use).  It even offers the same emergency usb wired mode and the nano-unifying-dongle with 30 ft range > glowy base station any day of the week.  The DPI is less than the Mamba's 4800 but the 1600 or 2400 DPI (can't remember which) is more than enough for me or anyone else who doesn't have super human dexterity.

Hm, last time I looked Logitech didn't have any mice that could go wired/wireless, and all their good ones were wireless.  But taking a look at some of the newer Logitech mice, I like the Wireless Gaming Mouse G700.  It looks like it's got the optional-cable feature as well, and it has buttons in much more comfortable places than the razer, and the shape looks as though it's similar to the MX Revolution, which has a form that I rather like.  When I do replace mine maybe it'll be with a G700, and I won't lose the freespin that I like, or the form factor I'm pleased with.

Wireless gaming mouse is an oxymoron.

Meet the G700 (http://www.logitech.com/en-us/gaming/mice-keyboard-combos/devices/7244?WT.ac=GSeries|7295|G700Getthedetails). Sexy as hell.

Word, my good man.

As are wired mice that turn themselves off. We have those abominations at work and they drive me nuts.

Corsair has a new gaming headset coming out and it sounds pretty hot. Might want to look into it. I believe it's called HS-1 (go figure) and its price point is supposedly $99.

I use Logitech G5 (slightly newer model is G500, but I don't like side button design, too easy to mis-click) and MX518. I really like ability to customize weight in G5/G500, but I find MX518 more sensitive/precise. I use G5 for spray-and-pray, I use MX518 for sniping.

I can easily tell noobs that use wireless mice - they are the ones that get headshot in sniper duels.

Even Razor mice pale compared to the mighty MX518 in my opinion.
Best mouse made. Why spend more?

I prefer Razor mice, though I'm still on my original Copperhead I bought back in '05. Haven't seen anything since that's really moved me enough to spend money.

The Naga and/or the MS side button one whose name escapes me are kinda tempting, but I have two Copperheads and neither seems intent on expiring anytime soon, sooo...cheap wins out.

The old 518 was amazing. I recently replaced mine, and it seems that the construction is much lower quality now. The mouse doesnt have the same solid feel that it used to. Also the buttons do not sit as solid.

This is one of my core philosophies. Great way to learn how to do stuff.

My favorite words to hear "Let's replace it", my mind hears "Let's tear it apart and see if we can fix it with no negative consequences."

Though I did just tear apart an iPod to replace the backplate...I only needed a little bit of superglue :P

I was talking in the RF thread about replacing my cordless logitech mouse, I just got tired of crappy performance. MX518 it is. Miss the heft of the two AAs, it's a bit light. Do like the on-the-fly sensitivity adjustment and it seems to perform well enough. Hate the cord, but meh.

Oh man that's sad to hear. I should have stocked up on old ones when I bought this one. I've had it for about 6 years at this point. Maybe more.
I have these AKG headphones... k240s... same story. Used to be rock solid, all the smart people bought them up when they were getting scarce.. Construction went to shit. "Say law veee y'all"

So hey, I've got a question.

My system drive died last week and I need a replacement. I have two choices, a 1 TB conventional drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136533) ($90) or a 60 GB Solid State (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227542) ($147).

Normally you'd go with the 1 TB, right? Except the only thing I put on my system drive anymore is the OS. I've had Windows scrag itself (and its drive) too many times to trust any other data to it. I keep all my valuable data (docs, MP3s, videos) on a 1 TB secondary drive. I don't actually need a huge system drive -- the only thing on it will be Vista.

So my main question here is, is it worth spending the extra money for the extra speed, or should I just grab the 1 TB and use it to install crap games?

Well, if you're using Vista, it won't have trim support, so although the SSD will be fast as heck initially (even with sloggy Vista), the performance will drop to about half in a few months.

If you were going to get Windows 7, I'd say shoot for the SSD, but otherwise, go for the 1T.

I gotta say I know its a build your own thread but just saying. Newegg 590.00 shipped.

Processor:
    AMD Athlon II X2 240(2.8GHz)

Processor Main Features:
    64 bit Dual Core Processor

Cache Per Processor:
    2MB L2 Cache

Memory:
    4GB DDR3 1333

Hard Drive:
    500GB SATA II

Optical Drive 1:
    24X DL DVD+/-RW Drive

Graphics:
    NVIDIA GeForce GT240 1GB

It runs lotrol in dx 10 real smooth. It plays Vampire the masquerade better than any computer I've ever had. That is without moniter. Keyboard mouse and tower. I couldn't figure out how to build cheaper.
1 x ($559.99) DT IBUYPOWER | GAMER POWER 538D3
$559.99

Yeah, I was warned about that, and I found this article on optimizing Vista for an SSD: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/storage/2009/08/27/ssd-performance-tweaks-for-vista/1

Not enough, you think?

Well, they are 'tweaks', not really optimizing. Unless by 'optimizing' means 'slowing down the junking up process'. They essentially just turn scheduled defrag off, and turn off superfetch and indexing. Which will slow the degradation of the drive, for sure, but you're still essentially then just running Windows 7 without trim support. Over time, its just gonna get cloggy, no matter what.

The later 'tweaks', including reimaging after a full erase are going to work too, but its a lot of effort. You'd still need to buy Acronis or another cloning software (I recommend Acronis, btw), so why not just get Windows 7?

Buy the SSD and Win7 together.

I've stuck with XP on my desktops because all my stuff works so there hasn't been a need to upgrade, but it's been impressing me with how well it's running on a laptop I recently installed for a co-worker.  Better than the old XP that was on it, and Vista would have choked it to death.

I grabbed it when they were running all the pre-launch $50 promos. I can't believe everyone didn't grab at least one copy at that price!

Unfortunately, I can't afford both right now, and I need the drive to get the home PC working again. So I'm going to taken Engels' advice (which was echoed by the office IT guys) and get a conventional drive.

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=How_to_set_up_Windows_on_a_VERTEX at the bottom under "Drive maintenance".

OCZ has a program called wiper.exe which essentially does a manual TRIM and will work on Vista. The downside is you do have to run it manually. I read somewhere that it'll work with any SSD that supports TRIM but I'm not sure if that's true or not and I forget the source.

Actually, that's kinda cool, and if it works, I change my mind   :awesome_for_real:

Looks like although they're talking about vertex, it also works with the agility line.

The more you know...

Does anyone have experience with or knowledge of ATI's 5870 mobile graphics card?  It should be monstrously powerful for a laptop, but...I've never owned an ATI card, and I am afraid of the drivers.  I always end up with Nvidia cards, and often because the driver issues scare me off.  Do I have reason to be worried?

No idea about that particularly card, but I've had my ATIs for about the last two years and have had no problem at all with drivers.

I've had a ATI 5870 desktop version and have had no issues for the last 7 months. No point of real comparison tho, one is desktop, the other is a laptop.

Here's a comprehensive review, along with comparison charts:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-5870.23073.0.html

Bottom line is it compares in performance to the desktop 5770.

Small editorial: The fear of ATI dates back to the freakin' 90s. ATI hasn't been particularly bad for a long long time. No worse than Nvidia. Some stuff comes out half baked, such as their eyefinity tech, but for basic stuff, its fine. People have loooong memories, is all.

Very long memories mostly because the experiences were so horrific. And it was somewhat later than the '90s, too.

Regardless, ATi/AMD/whoever still isn't quite in the same league as nVidia when it comes to drivers. I still see myriad compatiability and performance complaints...much more than with nVidia. On the good side, they're more in neighborhood of quibble issues, but there it is. It's not the horror show it once was, but I personally still stick with nVidia.

On the subjects of notebooks, there's some very hot stuff coming down the pike from both AMD and Intel. If you're in the market but can hold off a bit, I'd wait and see what the Sandybridge and the new AMD goodies bring to the table. Preliminary reports look to be very favorable indeed. VERY favorable.

Speaking of historical gpus, I found this list on maybe my twelfth post here:
I don't remember what was in my last machine, was there one between the 9800 Pro and the current 8800 GTX? Can't remember. All but the first two were really great cards.

Nice list. Makes me want to share my own:

Matrox Millenium 4MB (ran Quake 1 and Ultima 7 I believe)
Righteous Orchid 3D, Voodoo 1, 6MB (ran Quake 2, burnt up)
Artic Rage, Voodoo 1, 8MB (ran Quake 2 briefly)
Matrox G200, 8MB (ran Quake 2, good Lord that card was slow but looked fantastic.)
Righteous Orchid II, Voodoo 2, 16MB (Quake 2)
?, Riva TNT 2 Pro, 32MB (Quake 2, 3)
Hercules 3D Prophet II, Geforce 2 64MB (Quake 3, vrooooooom!)
Club Radeon 9600 SE (worst purchase of my life. Luckily, the piece of shit burnt up.)
Club Radeon 9800 Pro (ran nothing specific)
BFG GeForce 6800 GTO, factory overclocked, 256 MB (ran WoW until it melted.)
Leadtek GeForce 7800 GTX, 256 MB (ran WoW until I quit, then some LotRO)
Leadtek GeForce 8800 GT, 512 MB (ran LotRO, still in my office computer)
XFX GeForce 280 GTX, 1024 MB (now running)

Looking back... the first Voodoo 1 was still my favourite card because it's so formative for my childhood. After having pushed my greasy nose against the counter glass of a local electronics market for a couple of weeks, my dad finally gave in and bought it for me as an early birthday present. I don't think I will ever get an as profound graphics experience ever again as the first few seconds after I had booted up Quake 2 in OpenGL for the first time. A year later my parents had to install a seperate ISDN connection in the house to be able to receive calls, as I was hogging the phone line for hours every night to play Quake 2 CTF. Going from the USRobotics 33.6K modem to 64K ISDN was pure steroids for the railgun accuracy. Though I'm still not sure how I managed to configure the Cisco adapter at age 14 - but no config meant no Quake, so I guess I was motivated beyond belief to penetrate the obscure Telnet interface.

Quite frankly, my parents were the best and most enabling parents a kid who loved games could have had. They got me computers, Internet connections and video cards and drove me and my friends all over the country for LAN parties. A weekend without fragging people over a LAN was a boring weekend indeed. I guess they thought it better than me being out drinking and they were probably right.

I guess that's my boring gaming history in so many words.

Edit:
Sorry for the derail, but I was in a cool-story-bro'-sharing mode.

So I decided to take the plunge with that ATI card.  Well, more of a plunge on the whole laptop:

http://www.msimobile.com/level3_productpage.aspx?cid=6&id=255 (http://www.msimobile.com/level3_productpage.aspx?cid=6&id=255)

Should be fast as balls.

Yes, they haven't damaged or killed a shitton of cards by disabling automatic fan control in the last year.

I interviewed with a group at ATI/AMD that was in the process of rewriting the entire back-end suite of software used by the driver team (also most of the pre-silicon testing teams) but their time line was ~2 years out for the full change over.  So, they are working on it but it won't be soon.

:why_so_serious:

One memory of computer gaming that stands out for me was of original sound blaster. Someone hooked up big speakers via amp to it and played original Dune RTS. It was shiny, it went BOOOM!!! ... I couldn't afford such setup until much later, but in all my setups I try not to neglect sound. It makes tons of difference in your gaming experience.

That looks rather nice.

I have it now in my possession.  I can confirm that it is balls fast (for a notebook) and can manage Crysis on High settings.  That's with stock drivers, which I'm afraid to touch at this point.

So my wife's computer died yesterday, so it's time to try and get it fixed (might need a new mobo) but it's also brought up the time to get a new box from December to now, since my as-built-by-Trippy box is getting past 3 years. I'll get the new one, she'll get the old one. Everyone wins!

We'll be getting it from here, since it's local and actually has very good prices for Australia. Newegg etc won't cut it, I'm afraid.
http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/build.php?page=1&systype=intel

Budget is AU$2000, though if it can be cheaper that's a bonus. Monitor seperate. Going not for bleeding edge, but best power-bang-buck. A solid 80% machine that plays games gud.

Wants:
Intel CPU
NVIDIA Video Card
2TB HDD. Or maybe 2 of them.
The cheaper Samsung/Lite-On/LG SATA DVD rewriters are good enough. No need for BRD at this stage.
A good case with tool-less enclosures and good cooling. Maybe a 2nd choice/backup case in case they're out of stock.
LMK if I need to buy additional fans or request a PSU upgrade.
4GB RAM? 6GB RAM? 8GB RAM? I want to have a good solid amount, so I never have to upgrade, but I still can if I need to. And RAM to complement the Mobo as best possible.

Not bothered about sound cards. Onboard sound with stereo is usually good enough, since we often have 2 machines going in here anyway. I don't need 5.1 or anything.

I'm also going to pay them to glue it together for me, since it's just easier for warranty purposes etc. And that way I know it'll work when I get it.
I can get a cheap Win7 upgrade kit - either one of these. So I'll get the cheapest qualifying OEM version they have available.
Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate - Upgrade (media only) - WAH, Student - Campus, School - DVD - 32-bit - English - Microsoft
Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate - Upgrade (media only) - WAH, Student - Campus, School - DVD - 64-bit - English - Microsoft

No speakers/modems/keyboards/mice

Advice on monitors is also welcome, but will be seperate from the box budget. HDMI worthwhile? Will it play all my video files?
I'm partial to Samsungs and since I have a 22" at the moment, I'd like to go bigger. 24" or even 27"

Added notes above. That place doesnt seem to have any of the midrange EVGA motherboards. Which is a pain. Other than that the rest of the stuff seems to be on that list.

Oh yeah, make sure you get a 64bit OS.

Ultimate is mostly just a pointless prince gouge though.

The educational upgrade to ultimate will cost me $20, so I'm not too worried about that part.

I really like my CoolerMaster case. http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?sort=2a&products_id=42375 looks like that site has them.

Airflow is really pretty good, it is easy to add fans (I added 2 blue LED ones to the top), all drive bays are tooless and easy to use(HDD bays are great because the back side is accessible as well when the back cover is off for cabling etc.) Also has a ton of power connectors for graphics cards/sata drives/old school numex nicely wrapped in black mesh tube.

Why wouldn't you go for the i5 750? Also, if it's for your gaming rig, don't skimp on the gpu. Get the best you can afford. I don't like SLI, though. Here's my wishlist from a couple pages back.

i5 750
4GB Crucial DDR3 1600
ASUS P7P55D-E Pro
ASUS 480 GTX 1.5GB

Since most games are still 32 bit I wouldn't worry too much about the RAM, you can drop another 4GB in down the line if needed. I'm re-using case/drives/sound card/etc, so that's all I have for quick recommends.

That cpu (well, the i5 760 at your site), some 4GB pc1600, 2TB WD Black (I'd go for the 1TB for better cache, but eh), Lite-On cheap optical, the P7P55d-E Pro mobo, the Asus 480 GTX and shop assembly totals about $1450, leaving you $550 for a case and OS.

If you want to get your DDR3 to run triple channel, you need it to be install in sets of 3. Which is why I said get 3x2gb. You could get 3x1gb or 6x1gb, but thats going to be a lot hard to upgrade in the future.

Also, I still think going with 1x460gtx will be fine, and then just add another later if you need more power. 2x460s is pretty much the same as 1x480, but produces less heat in most instances.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/

Go there to see.

Before this generation of cards, I also disliked SLI and not a good deal, but with how these 460s work, it has suddenly become a great way to upgrade or even run a new system.

Didn't want to hijack someone's thread, but appartently this is the one thread for all (I didn't know that).

I'm building this PC for Darkfall.  I really enjoy the game and my laptop isn't cutting it.  What do you guys think?  I'm buying a monitor and other little things from newegg.  The bulk is from IBuyPower because I don't feel like doing my own tech support and such for problems.  They include it for 3 years.

Think this case is good enough?  Price is $1,300.  I can get a dual card setup fro another $230, but I didn't think I needed all that.

Back2School Intel X58 Special Case ( NZXT Tempest EVO Gaming Case - Black )

Case Lighting ( None )

iBUYPOWER Labs - Noise Reduction ( None )

iBUYPOWER Labs - Internal Expansion ( None )

Processor ( Intel® Core™ i7 950 Processor (4x 3.06GHz/8MB L3 Cache) )
iBUYPOWER PowerDrive ( None )

Processor Cooling ( Liquid CPU Cooling System [SOCKET-1366] - [Free Upgrade] Standard 120mm Fan )

Memory ( 6 GB [2 GB X3] DDR3-1600 - A-DATA Gaming Series )

Video Card ( NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 - 1GB - Single Card )

Video Card Brand ( Major Brand Powered by ATI or NVIDIA )

Motherboard ( [SLI] ASUS P6X58D-E )

Motherboard USB / SATA Interface ( Motherboard default USB / SATA Interface )

Power Supply ( 750 Watt -- Corsair CMPSU-750TX )

Primary Hard Drive ( 1 TB HARD DRIVE -- 64M Cache, 7200 RPM, 6.0Gb/s - Single Drive )
Data Hard Drive ( None )

Optical Drive ( 24X Sony Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive - Black )

2nd Optical Drive ( None )

Flash Media Reader/Writer ( 12-In-1 Internal Flash Media Card Reader/Writer - Black )

Meter Display ( None )

Sound Card ( Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy SE )

Network Card ( Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100) )

Operating System ( Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium + Office Starter 2010 (Includes basic versions of Word and Excel) - 64-Bit )

Keyboard ( iBUYPOWER USB Keyboard - Black )

Monitor ( None )

2nd Monitor ( None )

Speaker System ( None )

Power Protection ( None )

Headset ( None )

Video Camera ( None )

Advanced Build Options ( Tuniq TX-2 High Performance Thermal Compound - The best interface between your CPU and the heatsinks )

Warranty ( Standard Warranty Service - Standard 3-Year Limited Warranty + Lifetime Technical Support )

Rush Service ( Rush Service Fee (not shipping fee) - No Rush Service, Estimate Ship Out in 5~10 Business Days )

i5: For people who don't give a fuck for how many seconds faster they can decompress archives as long as their games run faster.

Care to elaborate on that?

i5 in tests for gaming have been performing pretty much the same as an i7 since they announced the part. i7 you pay a price premium for.

You have a pretty big budget for just the box so you have lot a flexibility in the configuration.

Some comments on the earlier recommendations. The i5-760 that Sky recommended is still the price/performance king for "enthusiast" gaming rigs. If you wanted to save some money that would be the way to go. However if you wanted to use up your budget you can spend extra on the CPU. I wouldn't recommend the i7-950 cause the max turbo speed (3.33 GHz) is lower than some of the other CPUs in that price range. My pick for CPU for you is the i7-870. It has a slightly slower base clock speed than the i7-950 but higher max turbo speed (3.6 GHz, also faster than i5-760 which is 3.46 GHz). The i7-870 also puts you on the (generally) cheaper 1156 platform.

However if you do want to go SLI you might want to go with 1366 since you'll get easier support for full dual PCIe x 16.

For memory I'd go to either 6 GB if you go with 1366 or 8 GB with 1156 and just forget about 4 GB.

For video card(s) it depends on how much noise and heat you are willing to put up with. The GTX 460 is the sweet spot right now for NVIDIA enthusiast GPUs. You do have the budget for a GTX 480 if you do need that much GPU power, though.

I don't like how the cases have included power supplies so I would order the power supply and case (w/o PS) separately.

Here's what I would recommend. It's a little below your budget so there's room to upgrade the components you care most about:

Intel i7-870   $344.00
Asus P7P55D-E PRO  $204.00
WD Caviar Black 2 TB  $206.00
Corsair DDR3 8 GB PC-10600/1333 (4x 2GB)  $221.00
EVGA NVIDIA GTX460 SC (01G-P2-1373-KR)  $284.90
Corsair ATX-750 750W  $236.50  (rebranded Seasonic)
Case (whatever you like)
DVD burner (whatever you like)

$1496.50

The i5s don't have Hyper-Threading like the i7s do. HT doesn't help with gaming (yet). If gaming is what you care about i5s are the better value. If you regularly run CPU-intensive multi-threaded apps, though, the i7s may give you better performance overall.

If you don't plan on going to SLI you might be able to save some money switching to the 1156 platform.

Most of the current benches have the i7 beating out the i5 at medium and high resolutions. Not by a huge margin but still beating them, also, isnt i5 all 1156? Going 1366 should give you a sligh boost in almost all areas. Also, if you want to overclock, I heard the x58 OCs much better.

Yes there are faster CPUs but you pay more for them. The point about the i5-760 is the excellent performance you get at the $200 price point. You can pay 50%, 100%, 400% more for 10%, 20%, 30% frame rate improvement.

Thanks guys, I'm more after the "sweet spot" of the moment with the components rather than paying 50% or 100% more for 10-20% performance bump. Won't be overclocking. With the last machine I bought there I got them to pull the included PSU and give me a slight discount on a better (higher voltage) one, so it shouldn't be a problem hopefully. If I can spend $1500 or $1800 rather than 2k I won't be upset. The monitor is probably going top set me back an extra $500 on top of the box, so hey. I ballparked the $2k budget from the last box that I wanted to spend $1200 on but ended up spending $1800 on instead.

Now: the stupid questions:

What is SLI and why do I (not?) want it?
2 Video cards? How does this work? (and if I got 2x of the $2-300-range vid cards, which ones would be the best to get? And would it be better than 1 $600 card (I'm not keen on spending $600 on one vid card for some reason.. probably after my last uber card melted down and cost me $300 to rep it.)
1156/1366? Motherboard type?
Triple channel RAM? um...?



thanks again,

SLI is "scan line interlacing", what it does is separate the screen into alternating rows of horizontal pixels and has 1 card draw every other (or every 3rd or 4th in a 3 or 4 board setup).

I'm curious about this. I get the 6GB for triple channel, but why would you need more than 4GB for a gaming box? The 64 bit games just aren't there yet, and you can slap in another 4GB when they are. Slapping in a ton of memory has always been one of my traditions in building pcs, but I don't really see much reason for it right now.

About the SLI thing, it's my own preference. I always buy the very best video card on the market when I build a computer, I find I need to upgrade gpus less and my computers last a long time. This 8800GTX is still a great card, while most cards of its generation are long dead. I guess you could buy a lower end card and then double it later, but then you're doubling an old card...I'd probably spend $250-300 on a new card entirely at that point, since you'd get about the same performance as the old card in SLI without any hassles of SLI.

The i5 750/760 is probably the best bang-for-your-buck CPU out there for high end gaming. The i7 does seem to scale better with high-end SLI systems, but then we're talking megabuck multi-GPU systems where price really is no object (think 2-3 470 or 480GTXs). Both OC like crazy, even on air.

The new Sandybridge stuff seems like it'll continue this trend with a bullet. AMDs new stuff is looking pretty interesting, too, but nothing concrete yet on how it will perform compared to the Intel offerings.

The game may not be 64bit but the OS is, I am sitting here with only Firefox open (with only a single tab) and according to task manager my machine is using 1.62gb of memory.  While the minimalists out there are probably yukking it up about how bloated windows is, I actually love that Windows 7 sees all these "excess" resources and uses them if they are there. 

On a side note after a brief moment of clarity when Intel introduced the core i series of processors, they have managed to once again quickly muddy the waters for me on what I get for the different series.  At launch it seemed the i3 was the next gen core 2 duo, the i5 was the quad core and the i7 was the quad core with hyper-threading.  After recently taking a deeper look I'm either reading things wrong or they have changed things so that the core i5 is now 2 cores instead of 4 making it more of a high end i3.  Am I the only one who feels like they are playing 3 card monty with their cpu branding?

Just wait until they start selling parts as i3 that are "upgradeable" to i5 via entering a code from Intel.

Well, the i7 950 is only $299 right now on newegg. Its only like you said, probably 15% faster, but it pushes your whole system to 1366.

As for SLI check the anandtech bench page, it lists all of the cards and you can compare them. Up to this current gen of cards SLI was really only for people with money to burn for epeen machines, but with the 460 cards, SLI is really a good solution for mid-high systems. You can getaround the same performance from 2x460 cards for around $400 as you can from one 480 card that costs $550 to $600. 

The best advice is to go that anandtech bench site and play around with the different cards.

(LGA) 1156 and (LGA) 1366 are socket types. Among other differences socket LGA 1156 CPUs use a dual-channel memory controller while LGA 1366 CPUs use a triple-channel memory controller. The 1156 "platform" is generally a bit cheaper than the socket 1366 platform since the CPUs tend to be cheaper, the chipsets are typically a bit cheaper so the motherboards are cheaper (plus vendors tend to load up their LGA 1366 motherboads), and a dual channel memory setup is cheaper if you are willing to go with 4 GB while with a triple channel you'll want to go to 6 GB rather than 3 GB.

I don't really consider triple-channel memory a reason to get a 1366 setup since non-synthetic benchmarks for normal apps don't really show any noticeable benefits. However the X58 chipset, which is the only desktop chipset that supports LGA 1366 processors, does support dual PCIe x16 slots with a full 32 lanes (i.e. x16/x16). With LGA 1156 motherboards, typically, you don't get a full 32 lanes with dual PCIe x16 slots -- e.g. you might get x16/x8 instead of x16/x16. So if you wanted to get an SLI setup you should consider the 1366 platform.

Edit: fixed quoting

ok so I'll pretty much just be using it for games and work stuff (word processing, etc). I'd like to run things like BF:BC2 and Crysis on high settings, but, you know. Maybe an occasional bit of video editing. As DRM becomes more fucktarded, I'm buying fewer and fewer PC games in favor of console versions, aside from stuff that uses Steamworks.

So now I need to decide whether to go i5 or i7, and likewise whether to go for single or dual GPUs.

For what I'll be using it for:
Will an i7 make a noticable/significant difference?
Will a dual-GPU setup make a noticable/significant difference?


Back to my wife's box for a moment, looks like the mobo is deaded, so I have to rep it or basically bin the whole machine. Since it's an older Mobo (ASUS A7N 8X-E) I'm not confident that Centrecome will have a workable Slot A replacement. So I figure I can probably rebuild it relatively cheaply to be pretty decently upgraded.
It's currently got an ATI 9600/256mb card, and I believe an Athlon 2000 or 2600 in it.

In the $300-400 total range ($500 at a stretch- but completely happy to spend $300 in total), what would be a decent replacement Mobo, CPU and GPU for it? (again, I prefer Intel/NVIDIA)

I'd like to reuse the RAM, if worthwhile. I have 3x RAmos 512 DDR400, CL2.5 sticks.
Then again, if 2 of either of these 1gb sticks are significantly better, it's doable. Or 3 of the $27 one.
http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?sort=2a&products_id=19058
http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?sort=2a&products_id=19050

I'm thinking core2 or i3, decent mobo with onboard everything, and cheap and cheerful gpu that can at least handle shader 2.0 and such, and if it can run (say) Borderlands/TF2/L4D/2 and such decently (doesn't have to be at max). Maybe the above RAM, and I'll do the nuts and bolts myself tomorrow afternoon.

Might have to also buy a cheap SATA optical drive, since the mobos are all listed as only having 1x IDE, and I have 2x IDE optical drives and 2x IDE HDDs in there. (we can live with 1 optical drive in there).

Almost hate to do this, but it really does "just depend."

If money is an issue (mainly if you want to keep it around $1200 or less), go for an i5 760. If you absolutely must drive a 30" monitor or something like 3x22" monitors (or more), then I'd get an i7. If you're running a lot of multi-threaded apps, then I'd get an i7. After that decision is made, then worry about vid cards.

Again, if you're on the cheap and not trying to drive some outrageous resolution, I'd go with something like a nVidia 470GTX (beginning to see them around $250 now) or an coughAMD5850cough card. The only reason to go SLI is if you're really pushing pixels--like a multi-monitor surround setup or a 30". Then you're looking at SLI, but I can tell you right now that the 460GTX still isn't enough for this in an SLI setup and they can't be triple SLI'd. Not with games like Crysis on the table. Best thing here is to go check Hardocp or the Anandtech bench to see what will float your boat and not bankrupt you.

Lastly, PCI lanes don't really matter much with the present CPUs available. There are some extensive tests over on Hardocp that cover this. The mobo...x55, I think...with 8xPCI lanes and dual 460GTXs will get most any job done, short of the aforementioned 30" or whathaveyou. Fuck Crossfire. Ahem. SLI scales better. Period. End of story.

Short answer: get the cheapest mobo that supports the i5, get an i5 760, then get a 470GTX if you can find one around $250. If not, get the 460GTX. That's a powerful system (and pretty similar to mine), and relatively inexpensive.

I totally dont buy this. Look at these results.

SLI 460 vs single 480 (http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/181?vs=158).

You pay a slight performance overhead for HT, and whether you can capitalize on that depends on the parameters of the test.  See here for a test with fairly good parity - the processors are identical, and the i5 tends to outperform the i7 at games despite the "better" socket type (http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/109?vs=47&i=2.3.4.5.6.25.26.27.28.29.30.31.32.33.34.35.36.37.38.39.40.41.42.43.44.45.46.47.48.49.50.53.54.55.56.57.58.59.60.61.62.63.64).

It takes some time to switch a thread, regardless of the processor.  HT does it faster under very particular circumstances - if the thread on a core is currently finished execution and the other thread stored in the L1 cache of that core is ready for execution.  If the HT processor needs to access the L2 cache to complete the swap then the HT processor is no faster at switching.  Due to this a HT processor may be faster or at a task overall, depending upon where threads are allocated, how much processing time each respective thread needs, and which threads are dependent upon the output of others.

I agree that there isnt much difference, but I believe thats a bad comparison. I dont even know if you can get the 920 chip any more, and with the price reduction of the 950, I dont see any reason to get any i7 lower than that. /shrug

I think really it comes down to how much you want to spend. I am going to be building a new system soon and I am going to go with the i7 950 and SLI 460s. I got my whole system at around $1150. Thats a good price point for me.

460s in SLI will beat a single 480 by a fairly significant margin, but neither can drive the pixels necessary for resolutions like 2550x1600 and up with max or near max settings in the kind of games I'd be interested in. And if I weren't pushing that level of fill rate, I'd still take a single 480 over the 460 SLI setup just for simplicities sake...assuming you have the power supply for the 480.

Do people even use that high of a resolution unless they have a giant monitor? I mean, I think my monitor is 21 or 22 inches with a native resolution of 1680x1050 and I've never gone higher than that. Mainly because my computer is 5 years old but I guess I was under the assumption you get the best image quality at native resolution anyways.

You do, but the lastest and greatest 30" monitors are 2550x1600. That's a metric shit ton of pixels to drive. When you start talking Eyefinity or NVsuround (or whatever green calls it), then you're up to 5760x1080--or more. That requires truly brobdinagian vid card setups. It looks glorious, too!  :drill:

That's nuts. I barely have enough desk space for my 22" monitor and speakers. Going SLI just to push 1680x1050 for me would probably be overkill.

I think I'll just be getting this monitor to go with it: (and just running the one)

Samsung 27" P2770HD ROSE-BLACK LCD - 5MS / WUXGA 1920x1080 / DTV-TUNER / D-SUB / DVI / HDMI / AV / SPKS
http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?sort=2a&products_id=45597

If your video editing package uses a multi-threaded renderer with support for more than 4 threads you might see a benefit from the i7. These days, though, using a package that supports GPU-accelerated rendering makes much more of a difference than HT-support does.

At that budget you are better off going with AMD. If you really want to go Intel I would recommend using some of your box's budget for her machine. E.g. go with 4 GB on your box instead of 8 GB (assuming you will go with LGA 1156) and then use the other 4 GB on her machine. It's easy enough to upgrade to 8 GB later if you find 4 GB is not enough.

So an i3 with a cheaper ASUS LGA 1156 motherboard and say a GT240 would be ~$400 + the 4 GB RAM from your budget.

OK, based on the above for her rebuild, I have come up with this - how does it look?

2x
Corsair DDR3 2GB PC-10600/1333 Value Select Ram (VS2GB1333D3)
$51.70ea -> $103.40

Intel Core i3-530 / 2.93GHz / 4MB Cache / LGA1156
$126.00

ASUS LGA 1156
Asus P7H55-M Intel Mainboard - 4x DDR3 / 6x Sata / 1x IDE / Gigabit Lan / Onboard VGA/HDMI / LGA 1156
$109.00


Plus one of the following GT240 cards: - Cheapest available of these, I guess, since I don't know the difference between them and they all look much the same (to me.)

ECS NVIDIA GT240, 1GB, 128bit, DDR2, PCIE2.0, HDTV, VGA, DVI-I, SLI, FAN, HDMI
$101.20

Gigabyte NVIDIA N240D3-1GI GT240, 600Mhz, 1GB, 128bit, DDR3, DVI, HDCP, HDMI, PCIE2.0, ATX
$108.00

EVGA NVIDIA GT240 PCIE 2.0, 1GB, DDR3, 128bit, DVI-I, VGA, HDMI (01G-P3-1236-LR)
$112.20

Asus NVIDIA ENGT240-DI-1GD3 GT240, 1GB, DDR3, PCIE2.0, DVI-I, HDCP, HDMI WIN 7
$115.00

Gigabyte NVIDIA N240OC-1GI GT240, 1GB, 128bit, DDR3, DVI, HDCP, HDMI, PCIE2.0, ATX
$125.40


Total is $440-465, which is within budget. This seems cheaper than Trippy's quote above though.

This machine just needs to run Word, WoW, LOTRO, and in theory a few FPS games like L4D and BFBC2, though not at max settings. Budget is effectively seperate from my new machine since we need to get hers up and running ASAP, and my machine will be post-tax-return in a couple weeks, topped off from our pay at the time if needed.

The monitors we've been getting at the library for the last year and a half have been 21-24" 1080p monitors. It's pretty much the sweet spot right now, a nice convergence of home theater setup and pc monitors.

In my own case, I also have to factor in 1080p doubled for 3D Vision. Hmm...I wonder how SLI interacts with 3D Vision...having a dedicated card to each eye would be awesome. I'll have to do some reading before I can magically in my imagination afford an upgrade (need new walls in the kitchen & den...).

On a related note, I came home from work yesterday and my video card I presume is borked. Only a few 4x3 resolutions available, 5 large pink/green bars down the display and says no drivers are installed. It even does the nasty bars during start-up. I've tried reinstalling the card, drivers, using DVI or VGA and it still does the same shit. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the video lag when scrolling or moving windows around.

This sucks but is awesome at the same time. It will take some of the guilt away from spending money on a new computer.

My rear 12cm outflow fan is dying, the bearings are making a racket. I'm trying to convince my fiancee that the computer is obviously on its last legs and I need to rebuild it!  :why_so_serious:

A sure sign of a dead card. Sometimes these can be resurrected by "baking" them (and, yeah, it's like it sounds). Often only a temporary solution, but it will postpone the inevitable. There's a large thread over on HardOCP about this very thing.

Also, once you start getting down in the $125 region, there's the new nVidia 450GTX. I believe this card is supposed to sell for about $125 and it's a good deal more capable than the 240. Hmm, quick check on Newegg shows them about $130 to $160. High end is encroaching on the 460, but Newegg isn't the greatest on price anymore. Still, $130 isn't bad and it is a better card.

You mean you don't have at least 4 other 120 mm fans lying about? What kind of a tech nerd are you?!

THE COMPUTER IS DYING. NEEDS NEW PARTS. CPU/RAM/MOBO/GPU.

Clearly you can understand this now that I've explained it.

Also, I'm not really a tech nerd. I own more axes than spare 12cm fans.

OBL what's your budget post

I could probably scrape $20 together. Cost of upgrade: just under $900 when I last checked.

Let a man have his fantasies. Unless my computer upgrade can be made out of insulation, drywall, lumber and paint.

It would make for an interesting case mod.  Insulation might be bad though.

Good for the sound dampening, just need to properly plan the airflow. Definitely want to be grounded when working on a box like that though.

Use steel wool for the insulation.  It will transfer heat outward (which makes it less of an insulation and more of a heat sink, I guess) and also baffle the internal noise without the ionization problems of the fiberglass (because it would be grounded via contact with the case).   :why_so_serious:

Rigid foam Tuff-R insulation. Masonry house that I haven't gotten around to stud-walling. Anyway. Enough of this nonsense. Sorry for the silliness.

So from the lack of response, I assume the parts I listed above are okay?

oh - you could put some old refrigerator coils behind the studs and then have a nice heat-sink setup....

It's almost the exact same processor on a different die, clocked to the same speed, with an identical L2 and L3 cache.  It is not physically possible to get a more accurate comparison of what a processor is like before and after HT without drawing the spec yourself.  Your processor of choice compared to the i5 750 (http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/109?vs=100&i=2.3.4.5.6.25.26.27.28.29.30.31.32.33.34.35.36.37.38.39.40.41.42.43.44.45.46.47.48.49.50), clocked 400 MHz faster at a cost of $110 is worth +/- three frames per second, the same amount of money would make a person's 4GB of memory into 8GB or buy 2/3 of another 460GTX to SLI with.

That's not a fair comparison of HT. You are comparing CPUs on different platforms (LGA 1156 vs. LGA 1366) that have different Max Turbo speeds.

If you want to do a real comparison of HT you need to compare the i5 760 and the i7 860. Same platform, same cache, same base speeds, same Max Turbo speeds.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/191?vs=108

Ooh, I like that bench tool! Trippy continues to deliver the goods.  :Love_Letters:

(Well, anand technically, but celebrate the messenger!)

Hi, I only linked it like 3 times in the past 2 pages.   :oh_i_see:

Who are you again?


Damn newbies.


 :awesome_for_real:


(also: woops)

No games benches.  Tom's has some (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/Gaming-Left-4-Dead-2,2433.html), results are +/- 2%.  On the plus side, the Anandtech testing seems to indicate that HT no longer threatens to slag your processor like the Netburst implementation (peak power draw is down).

Just realized that I posted my question in the wrong thread last night... trying this again. 

Budget and location?

I gotta say I know its a build your own thread but just saying. Newegg 590.00 shipped.

Processor:
    AMD Athlon II X2 240(2.8GHz)

Processor Main Features:
    64 bit Dual Core Processor

Cache Per Processor:
    2MB L2 Cache

Memory:
    4GB DDR3 1333

Hard Drive:
    500GB SATA II

Optical Drive 1:
    24X DL DVD+/-RW Drive

Graphics:
    NVIDIA GeForce GT240 1GB

It runs lotrol in dx 10 real smooth. It plays Vampire the masquerade better than any computer I've ever had. That is without moniter. Keyboard mouse and tower. I couldn't figure out how to build cheaper.
1 x ($559.99) DT IBUYPOWER | GAMER POWER 538D3
$559.99

*snort*

I bet it runs WoW great, too!

Likely a sub-$750 purchase in America - I'll buy online.  

Mostly just looking for opinions on branding and what CPU/GPUs are halfway decent in pre-builts.  I'd build myself, but that whole "I'm the lifetime tech support" is something I really want to stay away from.  He just needs a stable box that can play WoW and Dragon Age on fair settings.  Though I'd love if he gets a unit that can play WoW on Ultra.  

Home purchases aren't as great as office place ones I understand, but Dell while under on-site warranty has always been good for us.

Dell does use 3rd party techs, though. I showed the last one how to replace the motherboard on a USFF.  :oh_i_see:

We're looking for a notebook. What a total pain in the ass that is turning out to be. Found a decent-sounding Toshiba, but it's Office Depot only, no stores within 100 miles and no refund if you open the box :| A few Asus and Acers sound good, but seeing mixed reviews. Tried to get some hands-on at Best Buy but almost killed the sales staff there, loud, obnoxious and hovery. Probably end up just giving up and getting a Dell Studio 15.

Any feedback or ideas about notebooks welcome, ideally would like to get something that has some longevity for under 700 bucks. (Well, ideally would get a mac, but $1800 for the 15" is  :ye_gods:)

The Dell Outlet has been bombarding me with 20-25% off coupons since school started up.  Their new redesign for searching outlet inventory sucks but after some poking around I found a Studio XPS 1647 with the following stats:

    * Studio XPS 16 - 1647 Laptop
    * Processor: Intel Core i5-430M Processor (2.26GHz, 4Threads, turbo boost up to   2.53Ghz,3M cache)
    * Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium
    * 500 GB SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) with Free Fall Sensor
    * 4 GB DDR3 SDRAM 1333MHz (2 DIMMs)
    * 8X DVD +/- RW w/dbl layer write capability
    * 1 GB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4670

$819 bucks and you can whack 20% off that with this coupon code: G33V36FJ4W63CL (expires on the 22nd).

I have a Studio 17 that I purchased through the outlet and am pretty happy with it (even though the graphics card isn't as good as what is in an XPS).  

I did talk a buddy of mine into pretty much the same laptop listed above and it arrived with some loose parts floating around inside (sounded like a fan had come loose), Dell took it back for a full refund but it it still soured him a bit on the whole outlet thing so he went full retail on his repurchase.  After a month on his new machine (once the new car smell faded a bit) he admitted that if he had to do it over he would have given the outlet another go.

edit: did a refresh and same another XPS 1647 came up with a 5730 card and the bluetooth module for $919.  Took me well over an hour to strip my laptop down and install the bluetooth module so my suggestion is get it preinstalled if you want it.  Anyhoo that is the whole fun of the outlet you get to hit f5 40 times in 2 days to get a feel for the inventory then spend another 2 days hitting f5 to refind the specific model you decided on.

If you are willing to go a bit Off-brand and take that assumed risk, TigerDirect has some options. (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?Recs=10&Nav=|c:114|lp:500:hp:999.99|&Sort=4)

However, you'll perhaps notice that although the processors are fine for 90% of gaming, the video cards are really budget. Skirting the $650 dollar range they're offering 9500 and 240 cards, which really isn't great even for casual gaming. I'd sooner go for Dell's Studio XPS 7100 Desktop, retailing at ~$700.

Another option is getting a desktop that's not meant for gaming and then buying a video card after the fact. The only problem there is that its liable to come with a power supply that may not give enough juice to a card that needs a dedicated PCI-E power connection. Then you're back into fiddly land with your dad, which is what you're trying to avoid.

Thanks, Salamok. Used that coupon on a non-xps studio 15 refurb (don't need the xps stuff) with an i5-450 for $650. Might have been able to hunt down a better deal, but she wants a simple 15.6" laptop with backlit keys ASAP. She's happy, so I'm happy :)

np, glad someone got to use it.  Every three weeks I get one of these emailed to me and it makes me itch to buy something.

After searching all day, that's pretty much what I came up with, Engels.  Thanks for your time.  Not sure what to do, but I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm building a system soon. 

I just bought an ibuypower box off of amazon (it had it the same price as newegg).  Only had it a week but like it so far. Got the i5/8GB RAM/1 TB/GTX460 version for a grand. Probably paid a few hundred over self-built but had it less than 24 hours after I purchased and its works great (disclaimer: only had it for a week).


EDIT: Just read your later post and this is likely more machine than you need.

Remember, newegg = no tax. Shipping can be a mixed bag, though it's much faster with newegg (generally next business day).

No tax on amazon either, at least for me there isn't.

Interesting. The egg began charging tax in NYS, but the backlash was so severe they stopped. There's some forumla you have to work out on your income tax for internet purchases, but there's also a flat fee you can pay.

So, since I was talking about mice a few pages back I thought I'd mention I finally replaced my MX Revolution with the Logitech Wireless Gaming Mouse G700, and I figured I'd give a few comments incase anyone else was interested in the mouse discussion.

The mouse is pretty nice, shaped like the Revolution so it's quite comfortable to me.  The number of mouse buttons are nice, and the four thumb buttons are easier to get used to than I thought - I very quickly picked up on them.  Technically four thumb buttons is one less than the MX Revolution - the Revolution's thumb-wheel was essentially three buttons, forward, back, and click, along with the standard two thumb buttons.  The G700 makes up for that with the oddly positioned three buttons next to my index finger though, so it has two more buttons total than the Revolution.  Those are, as I expected, somewhat awkward to press.  I may get used to them with more time, but I expect they'll always be a little odd to press.

The only big complaint I have, coming from the MX Revolution, is that my favorite feature of the Revolution is now kind of gimped.  One of the main reasons I chose the G700 was the freespin scroll wheel like the Revolution.  It has this, yes, but switching between freespin and click mode is now manual.  One of the two buttons just below the mouse wheel is a manual locking mechanism that locks and unlocks the scroll wheel.  There is no other way to switch modes, and what hurts the most is that it doesn't switch modes automatically.  For anyone unfamiliar with the MX Revolution, once you spin the wheel more than a few clicks, it automatically releases and goes into freespin mode if it's set that way, then automatically re-locks into click to click mode when the spinning slows down.  For the G700 to require a manual button press to lock and unlock makes it very inconvenient to use this feature.

Overall, thumbs up on the mouse, but big frowny-face at the manual-only wheel mechanism.  Why they would take a step back after giving us the perfect mousewheel with the MX Revolution I don't understand.  I'm definitely going to write to them to express my opinion that the Revolution wheel was better and if they made a version of the G700 with an automatic switching wheel, it might be the last mouse I ever need.

How viable is it to buy a new computer in parts over the next 4-5 months and it not be obsolete by the time I get it up and running?

I don't necessarily need a new computer right now, but my current box is starting to make some noises and I'd like to be prepared this time.

Also, suggestions on parts? Budget is ~$800-900 and I'd like SSD.

Considering my current system is about two years old and plays everything fine, it's viable.

However, you're better off setting aside the money you would spend each month, and not purchasing anything until either there is a great sale on a useful piece, and/or you're ready to buy everything.  That means your warranties are closer to boot date, and prices may have dropped enough to save you a hundred or two given you're anticipating almost half a year of gathering.

Listen to Lantyssa, she speaks words of wisdom. Or types them, really.

Another angle to the warranty thing is that if you wait that long, you won't even be plugging some parts in until some warranty (or at least rma) windows have closed.

Keep an eye on the upcoming Black Friday.

also Intel is expected in the 4th quarter 2010 or 1st quarter 2011 to double the sizes on it's current line of SSD's w/o doubling the prices.

My speakers have given out.  Rest In Peace: 1998-2010

Recommendations?

Yeah, I've been waiting for that  before purchasing one. That's on the top of my list because my current HDD isn't sounding too good.

Whatever unused once you can find lying around the office?

If you are just looking for stereo speakers that have great sound quality, I am really happy with these:

http://www.alesis.com/m1active320usb

I got them for like 85 bucks at Guitar Center last year.

I use lower-end studio monitors (non-USB) as well and really like them:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/StudiophileAV40.html

Mine are sitting on speaker stands behind my desk to get them up to the proper height. Positioning of "near-field" speakers is very important -- you basically have to point them straight at your ears to get the best sound. Also if you like booming bass studio monitors are not for you.

I don't seem to work in that sort of place.

The family does not appreciate bass.  I will look around some more.  Thanks for the suggestions.

I would not recommend monitors unless you know what you're getting into. Consumer ears are not trained for them.

http://www.trittonusa.com/ (http://www.trittonusa.com/)

Slightly offtopic, but I'm looking for a laptop that I can play games and watch movies on, in addition to the usual word/excel/surfing shit. Would really rather not go over $1800 or so (I'm an underpaid civil servant now). Of course, I'd be happy to go lower. Anandtech fellated the ASUS G73Jh pretty hard 6 months ago http://www.anandtech.com/show/3795/mobile-buyers-guide-notebooks-dtrs/6 and still seems to like it and its successor, the G73Jw, which seems to be basically the same system with better battery life http://www.anandtech.com/show/3998/asus-g73jw-geforce-gtx-460m/5

Any reason not to get one of those?

Do you plan on carrying this thing around? For a movie watching laptop I like that it's 1080p and has Blu-ray but it's pretty heavy.

Ya, a version of an addage applies to laptops

-Plays Games
-Light
-Cheap

Pick two.

Alienware M17x R2 at you guessed it the Dell Outlet (http://www.dell.com/us/en/dfh/notebooks/xpsnb_gaming/ct.aspx?refid=xpsnb_gaming&s=dfh&cs=22), 20% off coupon:  Z?6517S913?Z2G

Mixamp and headphones. Audiotechnica or Beyer. That's if you don't have a sound card with an amp. The high impedpence Beyers are particularly glorious if you've got a beefy amp. I prefer open cans, so tend to Audiotechnica.

Also, the Corsair HS-1 might be worth a look. Not music cans, but supposedly very good with movies and games. Built-in sounds card (USB headphones).

I"m not much on desktop speakers. I'm still running an ancient gaggle of Logitech 550s. Hardly ever use them. I have a set of Klipsch 2.1s, but they've seen maybe 10 minutes of use in three years on the secondary box.

Well, I got the thumbs up for a computer build.  I'm going to do it myself this time since I just about threw my Dell out the window anytime I had to do an upgrade.

Budget I figure is about $1000-1200.  I'd like to keep it to around $1k unless I can get some really good deals for Win 7 and Office Home and Student (run about $220). 

I haven't done this in a while, so it's all a bit overwhelming.

All I'm really set so far on is the i5 760.

The rest I have some questions on.

GPU:  Should I get a 460 or one of the new ATI 6850 cards?  I may SLI/CF down the line later when I need to extend the life of the machine.
RAM:  I'd like to get above 4, but I can be talked out of it.  I know a game will only see 4, but you're running a OS as well.  I guess 3 sticks of 2GB isn't optimal for an i5.  8GB (2x4GB) absolute overkill?
PSU:  How big do I need to go here?  I can always upgrade later if I SLI, but having that option just there wouldn't be bad.
Case: Antec 300 decent enough?

Anyone recommend a motherboard or CPU cooler they're particularly fond of or would be good for this setup? 

Do not need:
HDD - I have a 1TB WD in there. Good enough, right?
Monitor, Keyboard, Mouse, Speakers

This is all pretty much for gaming.  I want mainly something fast and under budget, hopefully without any sort of possible heat or durability issues.  I don't really plan on overclocking.

The Antec 300 is a good case, though with any of the current gen graphics cards, it does tend to get a bit cramped. I would consider finding a case that's got a bit more space to it (front to back).

I'll leave GPU/RAM to Trippy or someone else more on the up with those performance wise, but I can't see a reason why you shouldn't go for 8GB.

As for your HDD, you should consider the option of getting one of the new Intel SSDs once they hit the shelves, which I think should be sometime between now and Christmas. Use it just for your OS or OS + Games. The speed difference is noticeable and with the Intels not increasing in price, it's not really a bad idea.

I've had 8GB for two years now. RAM is inexpensive. There's no reason not to future-proof by getting as much as you can afford.


I used this site (http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp) to calculate how much you need to run the parts you select. Then add 100 or so watts to future-proof; PSUs wear down over time.


I'll always recommend a Lian Li. Beautiful, well-ventilated, and designed for easy access.

Just remember you need 64 bit Windows with all that RAM.

I put a Coolermaster V8 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103055&cm_re=v8-_-35-103-055-_-Product) cooler on my I5 760 when I built it last month. It might be a little beefy for your needs but I :heart: it. I've had it on the slowest speed and it's literally whisper quiet. My CPU temp is 27 at idle and 34 under load.

Yep.  I know at least that much.


Good point on the RAM.  Looking at this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231314) for 2x4GB.

Based on that site, a 650 or 750 would be fine for SLIing down the road (giving enough cushion to play it safe).  I do have a 550W Corsair in my box right now, but it's over 3 years old.

Lian Li cases, in the price range I'm looking at, have a lot of mesh.  I have cats.  I'm not sure how well that'd work out.

Try and find a store showing off the case and see if the mesh is metal or fabric. The Antec 300 has a lot of metal/plastic mesh on it.

So, this PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341018) pretty decent? 50 bucks off today.  I'm hesitant to stray from Corsair.

newegg has full oem versions of w7 home for $95 on today's (11/15) black November deals.  Had this coolermaster case (http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=5843) for about a year now and I still love it (did need to throw a Zalman in to keep the cpu cool enough though). 

lot of duds in the reviews. of course, that's not a scientific assessment, but its still a bit surprising.

That seems to be the case with any item under 5 "egg" feedback. Heh, even for some with.  Only thing that doesn't make me flinch is people bitching about stock heatsinks/fans on the CPU.

I like this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207007) at just $10 more after rebate.  52A on a single 12v rail and 650W total output.

If you haven't already purchased the motherboard or Windows 7, check out this combo (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.552603).  Gigabyte GA-P55-USB3 + W7 Home Premium 64-bit for $195.

As for the CPU cooler, I think the Hyper 212 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065) is generally the go-to bang for the buck choice still, though I went with the Cooler Master V6 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103088) (with an extra fan) for my most recent build.  The V6 is frickin huge though:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.549129
 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.549129)
Thats a good combo and alot more horsepower than you have configured now.  Pick your video card and you have a very nice system.

WTF is that thing? It's enormous. How loud is it?

That's the Cooler Master V6 installed in my PC.  Cools like a champ, but it's a 6.5" cube that weighs something like 2+ pounds and may have clearance issues in a case without 'blown out' sides - it's super overkill for anything but heavy overclocking - probably even moreso than the V8 than MuffinMan recommended.

At 100%, the cooler's fans are somewhat audible, but the fans are running at half speed most of the time, so all you hear is air moving through the case.

Damn, that's crazy.

Any suggestions for an aftermarket cooler for an ATI 4XXX HD card? The amount of fan speed increase on simple tasks is crazy. Any HD video instantly causes an audible sound increase on the card.

I used the Scythe Musashi (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185081) on the HD4850 installed in my last machine because I didn't realize the stock cooler on the card wasn't speed-controlled and was set at 100% all the time until it was too late.  It's pretty big and a bit spendy but it runs quietly.

Intel Core i5-760 Lynnfield 2.8GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80605I5760 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115067)

+

MSI P55-GD65 USB3 LGA 1156 Intel P55 USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130272)

for $323 before a $40 mail in (and yes, I do mail them in).

Not a lot of feedback on that MB.  Hrrmmm.

I'm using the older (pre-USB 3) version of that board currently and like it quite a lot.

What brand was yours? I think mine is Built by ATI and the fan is speed-controlled. 4850 too. Did you find the card sped up a lot with the new fan? I'm really trying to find a way around it making lots of sound during small tasks. Don't care so much when it goes nuts during gaming. I expect that running games at 1080.

The card was an overclocked Gigabyte with a Zalman cooler installed by the manufacturer.  The Musashi has speed controls for both fans mounted on a PCI slot cover, but it was pretty quiet to my ears even running at full blast.

Holy shit! Run from that thing screaming. OCZ isn't worth two hoots in hell for PSUs. They're budget level, rebranded junk. Trust me, I know from personal experience. I had a 600watt OCZ fail and take most of the guts in my old C2D box with it (only the vid card survived).

Stay with Seasonic or Corsair (rebranded Seasonic). Can't go wrong there. The AX series PSUs are pricey, but truly outstanding units.

Awesome, thanks! I've been having a hard time finding a cooler in local stores, so this helps a lot.

I'm fairly certain that XFX's PSUs are also rebranded Seasonic units as well.


If you pick the Musashi up, installation is pretty fiddly due to the size of the parts involved.  I had to lay the cooler fan-side down on a table after installing the threaded pins and then place the card on top of it.  It will 'wobble' a bit even if the thumbscrews are threaded to the stops - the backplate has some flex in it - but should still be making good contact on the GPU die.  Also, the reviews aren't kidding about the included VRAM heatsinks being attached with pretty cheesy thermal tape, so clean everything with alcohol and give the glue in the tape time to 'set' before trying to install it or you'll be picking them up off the floor of your case in short order.  SPCR found that you can also just mount the Musashi on top of some of the stock ATI cooling plates, which would let you skip the RAM heatsinks altogether.

The performance seems pretty comparable. Personally I'd go with NVIDIA but that's cause I like the drivers better.

Since you going with an LGA 1156 motherboard and you want to leave the option of SLI/Crossfire open I would suggest you take a look at boards with the NF200 chipset on it. This will give you extra PCI-e lanes so you can get a full x16/x16 in SLI mode/Crossfire mode. The P55 chipset by itself does not support enough PCI-e lanes to do that. However boards with the NF200 are typically designed for quad-SLI/Crossfire and they often give up other features to support that.

E.g. this board without the NF200 has USB 3.0 and SATA 6 Gb/s support but only supports x8/x8 in SLI/Crossfire mode (I own this one):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131621

This board in contrast doesn't support USB 3.0 or SATA 6 Gb/s but can do x16/x16/x8/x8 thanks to the NF200:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131594


For heat sink I have this one on my LGA 1156 motherboard:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608014&Tpk=Noctua%20NH-U12P

This heatsink screws down (though it's somewhat fiddly) which I strongly prefer over clips that you have to bend or use push pins. One drawback is that the fan closer to the front of the case, if you install it, may block other components. E.g. on my motherboard I can't fit memory with tall "fins" in the memory slots closest to the CPU with that fan installed.


Not all Corsair are made by Seasonic. You need to Google which series are made by whom. The AXs do happen to be made by Seasonic and are based on their X series.

To emphasize what Trippy said, If you get a tower cooler, make sure you get a bracket or it comes with one.  Push pins suck for normal fans.  They're absolutely terrible for tower coolers and will pop off at some point due to their weight.  Once they start doing that, they'll get worse about it, and you'll end up having to pull your system apart to install the bracket anyways.

I just got an evga 460 gtx with an external exhaust. It really keeps the case very cool, but it's loud as fuck. Not sure I'd go that way again, though the card is decent enough. Then again, I really need to look at liquid cooling because in the winter it gets so damned hot in my living room it's like having a hair dryer. The internal fan on my old 8800gtx was also larger and quieter, I think they cheaped on the actual fan part.

Anyway, 2¢. Performance-wise, I'm happy with it as a mid-range card.

Just wanted to throw this out there for anyone thinking about building a new system any time soon.

Microcenter has the i7 950 on sale for $199 right now. Everywhere else its pushing around $295. So this is a fantastic deal. I also found out that Microcenter will price match Newegg.

I picked up the i7 950 and also a Corsair hx850w modular PSU.

Anandtech just put up a preview of Asus' newest mobos aimed at Intel's new Sandybridge CPU. This stuff looks really hot. Sandybridge isn't expected to drop until Febuary, but if you can wait this stuff is looking really good.

AMD still has a few things in the offing that might be worth postponing a build. The 6900 series vid cards and especially Bulldozer will be very significant players in the computer arms race this next year.

Up until 2 years ago I was probably more loyal to the ASUS brand than any other maker of PC components for a period spanning over a decade.  The last 2 ASUS mobos I have purchased have sucked donkey balls, the new gigabyte board I replaced them with was cheaper, easier to manage and more feature ladden for less money and I have had no issues with it whatsoever.

I too was am a Gigabyte convert from Asus. Nothing particularly wrong with Asus, but I found Gigabyte simpler and the last 3 boards have been steady.

My ASUS board is almost four years old now, so I'm not sure who I'm loyal to :P

I was thinking of a cheap cpu bump for games that are cpu-bound with the 460gtx, why the hell is the Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 $330? It's ancient in cpu terms, ffs, and as Morf points out you can get a galdern i7 for less. For an extra hundred bucks I could get an i5 750, mobo and 4GB of ram, ffs.

I'd really love to get the cpu/mobo/ram upgrade and slap in a second 460. In my dream world where I have money to do so.

You can put me in the Gigabyte camp as well. My last 3 machines had Asus mobos, but this one has a Gigabyte and I couldn't be more pleased with it.

What goes in my Sandybridge (or possibly Bulldozer) box still remains to be seen, but Gigabyte will definately be a player when I comes time to drop the cash. Not planning on doing anything before mid-summer of '11, but definatly building something around the July/Aug time frame.

Its expensive for precisely the reason you're still considering it; its the end of your socket type upgrade path and they know that consumers would sooner replace a CPU than the whole board. Its always been so, a little less with AMDs.

I would go ahead, bite the bullet and do a full upgrade (recommend a i5 760 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115067)); Trippy or someone else can correct me, but with a C2Q on an ole P35(?) chipset, you will not be using the full PCI capacity of your new video card.

Plus by upgrading the MB you can get SATA III and take advantage of all the buttkicking for goodness ssd tech about to roll down the pipe!

If I were going to upgrade, it wouldn't be by dumping money into this old wreck :) I just had a list on newegg and happened to look after Morf posted that bit about cpus.

I did grab the 460 gtx because it would port to a new system and get a speed bump, plus it would rock SLI and for the first time I think I'd prefer SLI.

That said, since there's no money it's just the fantasies of a graphics whore with a four year old jalopy.

There's a deal floating around--Newegg I think--on 470GTXs for $199. The 470 is the new sweet spot. The only downside is you need a pretty substantial PSU for an SLI setup.

Personally, I still regard SLI as a hassle. It's not always a smooth walk in the park. Single GPU if I can manage it. The only fly in the ointment is 2560x1600 resolutions. Even the 580GTX is only just getting it done at this resolution in DX11. At 1920x1200, though, I'd avoid SLI if at all possible.

This card  (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127501)get down to $200 with the combination of the 10% off and mail in rebate.  There's 10% off on a couple of cards and others have around $35 off in mail ins.. but none except this one with both.

The 460 is a pretty slick card, upgrading from a X1900 GT. ( :why_so_serious: )

The driver configuration on a NVIDEA card is faster to launch, but they still manage to completely ignore the fact that you have no fucking way to decipher what the fuck 32x vs. 16xq AA is.  I have no clue if modern ATi cards do that, but whoever chairs NVIDEA should be forced to suck off a corpse for that, because it's the most utterly bullshit thing to obfuscate ever.  Very often you're trading one annoyance for another.

Also, whoever designed the Intel push-thing gadgets on heat sinks deserves a bullet in the cerebellum, rendering their state of mental retardation permanent.  If you want an aftermarket heatsink, get something with fucking screws on it.

Do you not know what AA is, or just the specific setting? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_anti-aliasing

The specific setting.  I should not have to Google what exactly 16xQ AA is, when there's a tooltip right at the bottom of the screen that could tell me but doesn't.

Hey guys, I am currently building my new system, and I am kind of stumped on which mobo to get.

Here is what I posted on hardforum about it.


So basically, between the 2 EVGA boards, and the Asus. I know I shouldn't but I really like the look of the EVGA. I like the sabertooth look also, but it doesnt match any of the current components. I know its a small thing, but it does matter a little. More to the point is that I do want to OC this build a little and I heard that the EVGA OC software and BIOS are really good for beginners.

Some one posted on Newegg that the EVGA board doesnt have "true" SATA 6 and USB 3, but didnt elaborate and I have no idea what that means.

Also, any case recommendations would be awesome too. I like the Antec 900-2, but I hate its hard drive enclosures and lack of cable management. I had my heart set on the Corsair 600t, it has most of the features I wanted. Bottom air intake for the PSU, filters on the front fan, nice cable management and easy access to hard drive bays. But it turned out to be to wide to fit in the computer holder under my desk.

Since none of the Intel chipsets have native support for SATA 6 Gb/s or USB 3.0, motherboards that want to add support for these have to add additional controller chips which need to get integrated using the existing I/O channels on the board which for desktop motherboards would be PCIe. A single PCIe 2.0 lane (x1) supports up to 5 Gb/s bandwidth. The highest speed for USB 3.0 is 4 Gb/s (5 Gb/s is the theoretical max but 4 is the actual limit). So to fully support, say, 2 USB 3.0 ports and 2 SATA 6 Gb/s ports you would need at least 20 Gb/s of PCIe bandwidth or 4 lanes of PCIe (x4) dedicated (not shared with other devices) for those controllers. The boards without "true" support dedicate fewer lanes so you won't be able to achieve max bandwidth on some number of multiple simultaneous devices.

BTW the motherboard specs on the EVGA site are almost useless.

If you mean x16/x8 vs. x16/x16, according to HardOCP the answer would be no:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/08/16/sli_cfx_pcie_bandwidth_perf_x16x16_vs_x16x8/2

Thanks, that makes total sense now with some of the other stuff I have read.

Now, would that mean the Asus does have "true" SATA 6 or are all Intel boards false so to speak?

Also, any recommendations on those boards? Seems like the Asus is clearly the superior tech for less money. I guess I am trying to find a reason why I would buy the EVGA, as I want to like the board. I think probably any of them will be fine and I just need to pick one. But I sort of have writers block on it and cant.  :uhrr:

It claims it does though looking at the specs more closely I'm a bit confused by the "math" that's used. On my motherboard (http://usa.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=T2FxW2fXGZQgSn2V&templete=2) which has "true" USB 3.0 and SATA 6 Gb/s it has this special chip:
The matches the math I did above though now I'm wondering if in fact my board is acting more like the Sabertooth described below.

Looking at the Sabertooth board it says it uses the Marvell® 9128 PCIe SATA6Gb/s controller and the NEC® USB 3.0 controller but the specs for those chips say they use a single PCIe 2.0 lane each, not two lanes each. If you count by PCIe lanes reserved for PCIe slots it also implies those controllers are using one lane each. The X58 plus the ICH10R provide 42 lanes of PCIe 2.0 bandwidth (36 from X58, 6 from ICH10R). The board uses 38 lanes for its PCIe slots plus one for the regular PCI slot which, assuming the PCI slot isn't shared with a PCIe slot, means you have 3 lanes left over. That leaves one lane each for the Marvell and NEC controllers plus one lane for the JMicron® JMB362 SATA controller which also needs one lane. So it seems like at least for the SATA 6 Gb/s controller you won't get the full bandwidth if you have 2 drives hooked up and each can do up to the theoretical max. The USB 3.0 controller on a single lane is less of an issue cause in practice ~3 Gb/s is about the max you can hope to achieve on a single device.

The POS EVGA site doesn't list the extra controllers on their boards but looking at the lane counts for the slots the specs are even more confusing. The 131 board uses 35 lanes for its slots which leaves 7 lanes that can be used for extra controllers and stuff. The 132 board either uses 35 lanes or 43 lanes (!) depending on how you want to read its fucked up specs (it's presumably 35 lanes). With 7 lanes free for controllers EVGA could claim "true" USB 3.0 and SATA 6 Gb/s assuming they are using the same or similar controllers as the ASUS board and using dedicated PCIe lanes. It's possible that these boards, for whatever reason, don't use the 6 lanes provided by the ICH10R chip and so all the additional controller functionality not provided by the X58 and ICH10R have to be crammed into the single remaining X58 PCIe lane that's not used by a slot on the motherboard.

Thanks again Trippy. I think I got it. Although, it doesnt really help me pick one.

I was planning on running a SATA3 Velociraptor (that I already own) and a SATA 6 1tb Western Digital. It does seem that the Sabertooth is the better tech if I am understanding all that.

Is there any performance difference between using sata 3 vs. sata 6 on a single mechanical drive? Seems that this extra bandwidth requires a high end ssd like the crucial c300 to get used.

The Raptor at 10K RPM maxes out at about 85 MB/s transfer rate. A 15K drive can go higher but still not enough to max out 300 MB/s.

Yay, my first mispost. One shouldn't frequent forums during crunch time. Sorry  :oh_i_see:

OK, graphics card decision time:

This EVGA 470: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130550

Or this MSI 470: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127513

Both will end up costing around the same amount, and I like the reviews of each cards, not to mention they aren't freakishly long (some cards were a full inch longer). I think the 470 is the right priced card for the budget I've maintained; I'm not looking to jump up to a beefier card or an SLI solution.  Plus, I'm just more comfortable with nvidia. I'll be putting it in an Antec 300 Illusion if that makes much of a difference. 

And with this, my build will be done.  Yay. 

EVGA has the better warranty if you register (lifetime). Personally I'd go with whichever card was quieter.

I'll second the EVGA. Good warranty, and also the step up program.

Since my wife's repairs ended up being the purchase of a whole new computer, and some nasty bills came in, my new PC got put off for awhile there.

So I'm hoping to go in this week. Tomorrow or the following evening to get it sorted. Does this still look good, or is there new superexciting/much better value things that have taken these components' place? I'm sure the stuff listed is all still decent, but there might be something that's now much better value or has been introduced. Some prices have dropped from the original, so I've changed them to the current prices. A bunch of other stuff seems to be really low on stock, so they may be out of any of those components when I go up...

http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/default.php

Intel i7-870   $313.00    (i7-950 $335?)
Asus P7P55D-E PRO  $195.00
WD Caviar Black 2 TB  $206.00
Corsair DDR3 8 GB PC-10600/1333 (4x 2GB)  $155.10 - "Call for stock" - Get the 2x 4GB sticks instead if they are out of the 4x 2GB ones? Other options?
EVGA NVIDIA GTX460 SC (01G-P2-1373-KR)  $244.20 - "Call for stock" - I have NFI about motherboards.
Corsair ATX-750 750W  $225.50  (rebranded Seasonic) - "Call for stock" - aside from wattages, I can't tell the differences, I've bought Thermaltake in the past...
* Corsair AX-850 ATX? $255.20
* Corsair HX-750 ATX? $199.00
* Corsair TX-850 ATX? $180.40

Case (whatever you like)
DVD burner (whatever you like)


My budget will allow for a bit of flexibility, maybe another $100 or so on the GPU, maybe more ram (4x 4GB sticks?) But I really need advice on those things.

I'd go ahead and get 2x4GB ram. More wiggle room down the line.

The 460 has one version with 768 ram and another with the 1GB ram, if memory serves. I'd angle for the 1 GB, since 768 may bite you in the butt in the future.

If you are running a high rez on your monitor, you may wanna consider the next one down the line, the 470 for ~$100 USD more. (yep, I know you're an Austrialasian)

I picked up the final pieces of my build last night, and I am going to build it tonight. If anyone is interested, here is what I ended up going with. I actually ended up picking a lot of this stuff up at local B&M shops, using sales and price matching to get pretty decent prices.

Case: Antec 900 Two. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129058) $95
Processor: i7 950 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115211). $195
Motherboard: Ausu Sabertooth x58 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131665). $199
RAM: Corsair XMS3 12gb Kit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145235). $185
Power Supply: Corsair HX 850w Modular (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139011). $149
CPU Cooler: Corsair H50 - hybrid water and air cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181010). $69

I am also using the hard drive and GPU from my old system.

Main Hard Drive: WD VelociRaptor 150gb (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136296&cm_re=velociraptor_150gb-_-22-136-296-_-Product). I plan on also grabbing one of the SATA6 WD 1tb hard drives from newegg soon for $89.
Graphic Card: EVGA GTX 460 768mb (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130564). I will probably pick up another of these soon to SLI also.

Ill post some pictures of my build while I am doing it if anyone cares.

I'll be doing (as much as I get time to) my PC assembly this weekend as well.   Excited and a bit perplexed/overwhelmed.  Haven't built a my own in a LONG time. 

You will be fine. Its much easier these days than it used to be. Round peg round hole etc. This will be my second build in 2 months.

I usually do it in this order.

- Mount backplate and bracket for CPU cooler on motherboard (if you have a 3rd party cpu heatsink).
- Mount motherboard to case.
- Mount PSU.
- Install RAM.
- Install CPU.
- Install Hard Drive and DVD Drive.
- Install CPU Cooler.
- Cabling.
- Power on system to check for post and drives and such.
- Cable management.
- Install Windows.

My wife intercepted my computer parts and some of them are now wrapped under the tree.

bogus!

Dude, that is so wrong.  Never touch a geek's parts.

:ye_gods:
:sad_panda:

Pick up a couple matching 120mm fans (Antec 3 speeds from Best Buy are fine - put them on medium), mount it in a push/pull configuration with it exhausting OUT of the case.  It's worth about a 10c drop in CPU temp.  The instructions call for the fan that comes in to be mounted as an intake fan that blows air through the radiator and into your case (blowing hot air into your case).  I use Gentle Typhoons on my i5-750 @ 3.8 ghz and I idle in the low 30's and load temp at about 65c.  Totally silent.  Love love love it.

I'm actually considering doing THIS (http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=390688&mpage=1). I will be getting a set of fans to do push/pull on the H50, I just havent decided on which fans yet. I can't find very many reviews on 120 case fans.

On overclock.net (http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/612436-official-corsair-h50-h70-club.html), there's a post in there that has the static pressure, RPM, cfm, and db ratings of a couple dozens fans.  I'm running GTX 470 in SLI, so my ambient case heat is a little bit more than what is normal for the push pull config.  I also keep the front fans on juuuust about their lowest setting and the top fan at its lowest setting.

That's a weird set up that guy is running, but if it works more power to him (and I guess you!).  I use the 900 2 as well.  Cable management is 'ok', not great, but it's a decent enough case.  I really want the Corsair 600T, but can't really justify it right now.  I ended up splicing/soldering all the case fans into one molex plug to keep down the plug/plug/plug/plug nonsense.  I also got an 8pin extension to run the smaller mobo power supply cable behind the mobo.

I also wanted that Corsair case, but a few things stopped me. The plastic on the front part of the case made it look and feel a little cheap. The case is really wide. Its about 3 inches wider at the bottom and about 5 or 6 wider in the middle than the Antec 900 / 902, and due to that it wouldnt fit in the carriage I have under my desk to hold the case.  It has no window, and while I am not super in to all the flashy stuff, it does look nice, and some times I do like to have a look inside there.

Oh yeah and it cost around $65 more than the Antec 902.

I am considering replacing all my Antec case fans with very quiet fans, any recommendations?

Nexus is the benchmark. I use the Noctua fans.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article63-page2.html

Newegg's out of the Noctua fans in the review linked. They do have another type, the NF-P12-1300 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608004). I suspect they are just as good, but I thought I'd ask here, since I too am considering replacing two of my 120mm.

I use the 1300s but I'm not sure exactly how they compare with the 1200s.

Did some research since my last post.

I have heard Noctua are good, but the color puts me off.

The Scythe GentileTyphoon are very high rated, and also the Noiseblocker Multiframes. Seems like all those are out of stock on Newegg.

You have to keep an eye out on the GTs.  They seem to sell out quick.  I'm happy with them.  As I said, when using them with the H50 in the push/pull, with an ambient of about 23-24c, they keep me at about 31-33c on idle and 55-65c using Prime95.  I'm veeeery tempted to run a duct from the top front case fan direct to the p/p to bypass the ambient heat from the mobo/GPUs - just to see what kind of difference, if any, it would make.  I mounted my DVD at the very bottom and shifted the front case fans all the way up so it's basically a straight line of air from the top front 120mm to the H50 fans/reservoir.

I'm tempted to yank the DVD out completely and just use an external DVD drive when I need it.  I never use it, and it's two less cables to run/hide.

I use the scythe s-flex fans, and have been quite happy with them for years.

I did my new build last night and I was wondering if my CPU temps are a bit high, and if so what should I do.

My apartment is pretty much always 22c (72f).

Current system:

Case Antec 902
i7 950
Asus Sabertooth x58
H50
12bg Corsair XMS3
EVGA GTX 460 768mb
Corsair HX 850

I currently have the 2 front fans intaking, my bit top fan exhausting.

I have the H50 set up intaking from the back in a push setup.

My CPU is idling at 39-40c and while running Prime95 its 65-66c. That seems a bit high for only stock speeds. I wanted to OC, but I dont feel like with the current temps that would be a great idea.

The pump is running at 1300rpm and the Corsair fan is running at 1600rpm.

Other system temps:
Motherboard 34c
Northbridge: 56c

Any advice?

That seems high, but the paste that comes stock with the H50 takes a good week or more to 'cure'.  If you're overly concerned, switch the H50 fan to exhaust and see what happens.  The Corsair way of doing it makes me think there's a buffeting effect that doesnt allow the good clean air to get away from the reservoir.  My best results have always been setting the reservoir fan to exhaust, regardless if I use two fans in a push/pull or if I use one fan as exhaust.  There's tons of people posting the same results (better as exhaust).

With the H50 as an intake and the two fronts as intake, you're pushing alot of air against each other, regardless of the top fan exhausting the air out.  In my head, I see a swirling, buffeting effect that the top fan can't keep up with.  I tried my two front fans as exhaust (and I even think the H50 recommends switching the front(s) to exhaust), but didn't like the idea of hot air being pushed into the case and moving about the rest of the components.

e:  In messing about with different configurations (and a ton of research), I found that with the 900 2, the best way to set it up was push/pull, moving the DVD to the very bottom mount and moving the fans all the way up.  It makes the DVD a little tougher to get to, but on the other hand consider how often you actually use it.  When you DO use it putting it on the bottom moves the drive noise away from you (when it's spun up, anyway).  However, it gives you a perfect straight line path of good clean cool air from the top front intake fan perfectly straight to your H50 fan(s) and reservoir.  It also puts your bottom fan in a good line with your graphics card.

Think I should reseat the contact with Arctic Silver?

I wouldn't think so, unless you had a fair amount of contacted twisting and movement when you got it lined up with the retainer and wrenched it down.  The stuff they use on the H50 has some premium stuff on it (Shin Etsu).  Give it a week, or even a month, before deciding unless your temps get out of control.

e:  I just thought of something...When in your bios, the fans are showing 100% speed, yeah?  IIRC, when in bios or on startup/POST, your fans automatically spool up to their max speed, but when you get to desktop, they slow down.  Make sure your default fan speed in bios is max/100%.  If it's not, your fan and pump may be operating slower than they should.  And because your system doesn't recognize it as being too hot, they're only doing what they need to be doing.  The H50 needs your fan and your pump operating at a constant 100 percent speed, regardless if it's idle or underload.  And that MIGHT be why your idle temp is so high (but doesn't really explain why your load temp is pretty much the same as mine).

I looked all over my BIOS, and didnt see any options for adjusting the fan speed.

When I first installed the pump over the CPU, I didnt quite get it to lock in the ring clamp thing. So I had to loosen it, and twist it slightly left and right. Do you think this could mess up the thermal paste?

Also, I dont think if I change the fan direction its going to make much of a difference. If I remove the side on my case, it doesnt help the temp. I am going to try and change to exhaust, but im not sure if I have the right screws with me right now.

Which BIOS is it?  If it's American Megatrends, it's located under H/W Monitor.  Alternatively, download speedfan and see what RPM your fans are spinning at.

I don't think you messed up the paste, but it's possible.  Give it a week and see what happens.

So I tried to change the setup to exhaust, and realized the radiator is just a tad to big to fit flush up against the case. The next thing I tried was totally moving the rad and fan outside the case, temps stayed exactly the same, so I dont think with the single fan using intake or exhaust is going to make a difference.

The BIOS is a custom one for the Asus Sabertooth. I did find fan options in under hardware monitor, but it was to show the current speed or ignore it. I do have a fan monitor, and it is showing the fan running at 1600 to 1650rpm. The stats on the fan say it should run at 1700rpm.

Image below of my fan speeds and temp, and cpu-z under full load with Prime95.

I'm really pleased with my build so far. I still think I could do a bit better on the cable management and fan speeds (Antec 300 M Illusions manual fan switches are kinda assy for setting to medium speeds).   

It's really nice to load a game and just play at the highest settings.  Granted, I haven't really tried pushing it yet.  Only loaded up Fallout: NV and WoW so far.  The required Oblivion testing (which was once Morrowind testing) will come soon enough.

Builded ended up being.

i5 760
MSI P55-GD65
COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus 58
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply66137443
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL66079257 (N82E16820231314)
MSI N470GTX Twin Frozr II GeForce GTX 470 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card66825035
Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case66417858
1 TB WD Caviar Black from my old PC

Only component I'm not really happy with at the moment is the MB, and that's because it's not detecting the speed of my RAM correctly right now.  I think 1600 is only supported as an "OC" setting, but I haven't quite deciphered the BIOS yet on how to do that.

Assembly only took about 3 hours, mainly due to not being really sure on some aspects.   Windows 7 installation was painless.  Yay.

Weird, man.  I guess it's possible you got a bad H50 because your temps shouldn't be anywhere near that high (even taking the TIM curing into consideration - at most you're looking at 5c difference).  Here's my i5-750 at full load with P95.


Put the stock cooler on it and see what happens?

Ras, to get any of the new motherboards to see your RAM any higher than 1066 you need to enable XMP in the BIOS. Its like a semi-OC setting. But really its more like one switch you flip.

Just puttering around Windows with a few small things running I am noticing my temps are about 44 - 53. Some times those temps at the same time on different cores. Is a 9 degree difference on different cores at the same time normal?

It's possible it's just the different BIOSes giving the different temperatures.  On the same motherboard mine went from a solid 34 C to averaging 39 C with only a BIOS update.

Hoh boy, my computer decided to not post once today. After retrying once the computer turned on fine. Between this and the random crash dump screen I got yesterday, I think it's time to start looking at making a new i5 system... Or am I being paranoid?

Is it me or is there a big dead space under the gpu? Shouldn't there be a fan in there, too? I'd think an ideal push/pull would have three tiers (on an Antec case): top for cpu zone, mid for gpu zone and the bottom channel where the psu sits.

The evga external exhaust design is annoyingly loud (I'm sure they cheaped on the fan), but one great thing is that it defeats that thermal hot spot in most cases. Case temps (and gpu) are way down compared to my more standardly-cooled old 8800gtx.

Got a copy of the crash dump?

That could be any number of things that don't require a whole new system.

Make sure everything looks seated correctly. Ram, video card, sound card (if you have one), etc.

Might be the ram. Run a Memtest86 test off the UBCD (http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/).

Might be the vid card (this one's unlikely) since unless they are seriously horked, they do let you get past POST.

Might be the power supply. Is your PSU a hold over from another system? Do you have another PSU you can use to check it out? Most folks don't, but some of us nerds have 2 spare lying about from prior builds laying in a closet somewhere.

I don't tinker inside my system at all; so everything is seated fine.


Good idea, actually.


It's a newer PSU; originally the system had a hold over; but a new graphics card forced me to get a new PSU.

Negative.  Heat and electrical current cause oxidization and galvanic action, reseating failing cards and memory modules may scrape off any metal oxides.

Thanks! That did the trick.

Interesting fact:  the automatic fan control on my card didn't work until I actually hit "user define" in the MSI afterburner software and just saved the defaults.   :awesome_for_real:

So, I returned my H50, as I noticed I could hear a lot of water noise in the pipes which people said is not good. I picked up another one. I cleaned the CPU top really well, and seated the new H50. I also added another fan to it, so its now in a push/pull setup exhausting.

I have just about identical temps as I did with my first unit. Idle at 40c, load at 66c. I am getting very frustrated with this thing. I know my temps should be much lower than this.


It doesnt seem to matter what fan setup I have, or what speed they are on. Still pushing pretty much the exact same temps. Anyone else have any ideas?

I have no idea what to say other than to put your stock cooler on it and see what happens.  If after swapping out the h50 and putting the stock cooler on it, and you still have too high of temps?  Something else is wrong.

Did you use a thermal compound when mounting the cooler to the CPU?

Edit- NM posting from phone, didn't scroll up enough to see your arctic silver comment.

...Magic, got it.

Thanks, that's actually really good to know. The computer hasnt acted up since, but I'll take a look inside just in case.

I'm beginning to wonder if my CPU just runs really hot.

SnakeCharmer, any tips on which version I should buy of the GentileTyphoon?

Scythe Link (http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/acc/051/d1225c12b1ap_detail.html#) - There seems to be 5 models that go at different speeds. I was thinking maybe the 14.

I use these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185058), but I hear the Noctuas (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608009) are a little better due to the higher static pressure.  They're also 3 times the price of the GTs.

Have you tried your stock CPU cooler?

Not yet, I'm going to try that when I get home tonight.

I was thinking of getting 4 of the GentileTyphoons, 2 for my case and 2 for the H50.

Did a little bit of reading...There's this (http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2035564), this (http://forums.pureoverclock.com/showthread.php?t=6471), this (http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/294947-28-temps-coolermaster-load-high).

Temps sound completely normal.  It's just a hot chip.  You might could try putting the vcore to whatever it should be rather than auto and seeing what happens.

Funny. I had already read all those. I realize its a pretty hot chip, and its going to run hotter than yours, but most of the stuff I read said that with the H50, I should be seeing idle temps in the high 20s to low 30s, and loads of mid 40s. Where as I am idling around 41c. Almost 20c hotter than ambient. I have a bunch of AS5 at home, so I am going to experiment when I get off work.

It's good, but I don't think it's quite THAT good.  I love it mostly from an aesthetic point of view; it makes a clean case and it's quiet.

Morfiend,

Did a quick google of i7 950 temperatures and there seems to be a lot of chatter about concerns their processor's temp is too high. However, I am starting to think your temps may be normal.

Some random post on the internets had this to say:


So, it looks like you're running at a Vcore of 1.208 and getting a temp of 66 C at 3.0 GHz. Compare it to the guy above at 3.6 at Vcore 1.200 and 67-70 C it seems plausible.

Edit: Ah, looks like you got it covered.

So, I don't think I will be able to install the stock cooler. I will have to remove my motherboard to access the H50 backplate, and its a HUGE pain in the ass.

I did reseat the H50 with Arctic Silver 5, and now I am running way hotter even. After 5 minutes of Prime 95, I'm now running at 75c.

Reseated a 4th time and now im back to 39-40c idles and 65c load temps. I still feel this is to high, but I dont know what to do next.

65 C at load still gives you, what 30ish to TJ Max? That's way within safety limits. Honestly bro, I think that's just how they're designed.

I brought my processor up to 3.7 and it was idling at 56-58c, and as soon as I started Prime95 it jumped to 85c and then climbed up to 91c in the next 30 seconds.

Does that seem right?

Not sure about Intel, but my last few AMDs (95W 2.8/3.0 Ghz) idled at 35-40c and peaked at 60-65c under full load, so your original temps don't seem too far out of bounds by comparison.

How much thermal paste are you using?  One thing to keep in mind is that you want an extremely thin coat.  The idea is to seal any gaps between the two plates.  Too much paste and it acts as an insulator.

Running hotter than ever would seem to indicate too much.  Get it to a decent temp (and I honestly think 39 C idle / 65 C under load is a decent temp), and give it a week.  Even then, it'll take time for the paste to settle due to pressure once you have the proper thickness.

Do you have any secondary cooling around the cpu area for mosfets, nb and such? Water cooling does great for what it's on, but nothing for surrounding stuff.

Are you still getting water flow noises?  Are you certain you've purged all air from the loop?

H50 is a sealed system cooler, there should be no water noise at all. I have one on my desk I haven't installed yet.

So is this the thread for "I am a hardware idiot?". I'm looking at building a box sometime after Christmas. My current PC is...elderly (2002-ish?).

I've gotten someone to agree to help put the thing together (he's done it lots of times, and I've never done it, so...prefer to have someone stand over my shoulder and say 'Don't be a moron' before I do something dumb).

Trying to keep it in the 500 to 700 dollar range. Don't need a monitor. Cost for the OS is seperate from the hardware costs (I want to set it up to dual boot Ubuntu and Windows 7, I think). My hard drives are elderly enough that even if the hardware fits, they're at the end of their lifespan.

So what I should I be looking at? Case, video card, CPU, power supply, RAM, and drives?

Depends on your needs. If you aren't a gamer/video fiddler, then yes, its very doable. If you are interested in gaming its still doable, but a bit constrained at $700.

210   chip (i5 760)
120   mb (might be able to get cheaper if in a combo)
150   GPU (a 460 can be got for this price)
100   RAM (4 gigs)
100   HD  (perhaps can get cheaper)
50   case (cheap)
20   dvd (standard)
75     PSU (could get for less)

There's a quick, lazy response that gets you (albeit with stock cooling) a decent gaming machine at $825 for the hardware.  You could shave $10-20 dollars off here or there and perhaps some more with combo deals and mail in rebates.  Very possible to get that under $700. 

Don't forget a static strap.  No matter what your buddy tells you, use a static strap AND GROUND IT. 

AMD CPU/Mobo is an option if you start looking at i3's instead of i5's.

Don't go cheap on the PSU.  Get something 450-600 watt from Seasonic.  Yes, a 450 watt will run an i5 and GTX 460 if it's not a piece of shit.

Seconding this, I have a bunch of dead cheap off brand PSUs in my basement from computers I've fixed for people.  Buy a decent brand and you usually want to buy bigger than what you need.

That seems workable. While technically this will be a gaming machine, in actuality -- I'm years behind. I'll be satisified with something that'll run SC2 and Diablo 3, when it comes out. Runs, not "runs awesomely with 3 million FPS with all the bells and whistles on".

For those prices you can get a pretty damn well performing PC. Also, at a later date you can add a second 460 graphics card, but a large performance increase. Just make sure you get a motherboard that supports SLI and a PSU that can handle the load of both cards.

I would recommend at least a 750w PSU. Also, you can probably get 6gb of ram for that price, 3x2gb, so you can run in triple channel. You should be able to find a hard drive for more like $50 if you watch newegg for sales. Currently they have a SATA 6 1tb drive for $89.

I just bought something similar, but with 8 gigs RAM, a 470 GTX, a CPU cooler, and a 750W PSU. It handles Blizzard games at "ultra" graphics settings with a constant 60 FPS.


Can't run triple channel unless he goes an i7 that supports LGA 1366.  Depending on how lucky he gets with deals (like the $200 i7950 that was floating around a while ago), that could bump the price up more or keep it relatively the same.

Basically the exact setup you originally listed will do Blizzard games at 60 fps on Ultra.

More PSU is better, but higher efficiency trumps more wattage.

Wouldn't his monitor/resolution play a large part in determining is CPU/GPU/RAM needs to run X game at ultra (or whatever) settings?  A setup the runs 1280x1024 (or whatever it is) at ultra would chug at 1920x1200.  I've always recommended to friends to determine what resolution they play/want to play at then build accordingly.

1280x1024 is the monitor I have, and I don't plan to replace it. I'm trying to do this on the cheap. Especially since I have to scare up a copy of Windows 7 somewhere.

I play on a 23" LCD (1920x1080).  So, he'd be just fine now, and fine if he ends up upgrading his monitor in a year or two.  I'd rather have more than enough than just barely.

So basically I take the list and start watching NewEgg? (I'll probably spring for 8 gigs of ram. 2 4gig sticks). I keep expecting I'll end up with a motherboard that for some reason won't fit in the damn case -- too many Dell PC's with their weird-ass motherboards cut to fit their cases.

Dammit, I ended up with 1k for the bits and pieces. I may have overdone it on the PSU and video card (420 together) and 340 for the MB+CPU combo.

Hmm. I may just have to surf sales. Post-Christmas general has some good stuff.

Yeah.

Decide on a processor type, then use the sort functions to find the mobo/processors that fit your criteria. Just make sure your case and your mobo are both the same type (ATX or MicroATX) and the fit problem should not exist.

If you are looking for getting a good all-around PC for less, you could look at AMD processors. I have been very happy with my Phenom I built 2 years ago.

Eh, I could get a pretty similar build through Dell for 1200, which would include Office Home and Student and 7 Ultimate, for 1200 bucks. Admittedly, that includes a 500 dollar discount I get through my workplace.

PSU wouldn't be quite as good, nor the card as easily upgradeable, but price-wise it's a wash. Damn, I was hoping for a larger, more obvious savings.

I like Dell, but you end up paying for it in the long run.  My last one, even being an XPS, was a complete pain in the ass to upgrade.  It also ran uncomfortably hot.

Yeah, I have that problem now. Of course, where I keep my tower isn't the best ventilated now. I'm sorta mulling the "Same price, but with software and a better warranty" up against "Not Being Dell".

I don't find Dell cases hard to work in at all, YMMV.

EVGA 460 at newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130591)= $160
Corsair 850w PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139009&cm_re=corsair_850w-_-17-139-009-_-Product) = $125

Depends if you get a tower or one of their smaller form factors.  I never have trouble with their towers either, though.

EVGA reccomends 24A @ 12v for a single card system (meaning double that is SLI capable with headroom).  CWT made the linked Corsair, and may or may not be a good brand / OEM currently.

$75 Seagate 620w (48A @ 12v) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151096)

Seagate's other shit. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007657%2050001697&IsNodeId=1&name=SeaSonic%20USA)

Hey guys, just a quick question. My brother works in a computer warehouse and he got me a good deal on a quad core. He also got me a hard drive, and a (illegitimate) copy of windows 7. The thing is, I more or less want to use my old hard drive, with all my things on it, and it being arranged how I like it and what not. I asked him if I could just move my hard drive over and use it on the new computer, and he basically said no.

Is what I am asking to do feasible? If so, how? Or is he right?

If you're going to be using a new motherboard, I would say no.

The two issues you'll have is Windows activation and whether or not you'll even be able to boot off the drive into Windows given the lack of drivers for the new motherboard. If you can get it to boot and it's a legit non-OEM copy of Windows and you still have the key you should be able to get whoever you talk to to give you the activation code to let you activate it on your new hardware.

You can use it as storage, but making it a boot drive without reinstalling has been a pain since the days of XP due to MS OS's not wanting to load if the motherboard changes.  And simply for stability and performance, I'd recommend a fresh install anyways.

And even if you do get it to boot and past activation, you then have to deal with tons of old drivers for hardware that doesnt exist. Really, its a bad idea all around.

Whenever I have that issue I just install to a fresh drive and slave up the old one as a "storage" drive and archive of sorts.
Best of both worlds really. You can always rebuild shortcuts on the new drive to all your old stuff and it'll feel mostly the same with minimal effort.

Thanks for the response everyone. I have basically taken all your advice. I bought a new copy of Windows 7 for (relatively) cheap and installed it on the new hard drive. I read what y'all have said, and decided 'aw fuck it, if they think it's  pain, it will be nightmare for me' and just installed WoW on my new computer.  The only thing I really needed to back up on the old comp was my creative writing folders anyway.







And porno.  :drill:

OK, so I received $100.00 in gift cards from Newegg for Christmas and I'm looking to finally upgrade from my cheap GT240. I wanna keep it under $200.00 after shipping (cheaper the better too) and mainly interested in an NVIDIA card. If it matters I am running:

I5 750
6 gigs DDR3
Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD2 Motherboard
Case is big so card size not an issue

This is the primary one I am looking at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130567 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130567)
Good deal or any other suggestions? 

It's $189.99 on sale right now with a $20.00 rebate card.

460GTX 1gig card. Pretty much the only choice under $200, unless you run into a smokin' 470 deal.

Check the warranty stuff.  EVGA does lifetime warranties on some cards if you register it shortly after purchase, as I recall the AR suffix indicates this.

My 460gtx 1GB EE has a lifetime warranty on it. Nice kick for my almost 4yr old C2D e6600 with 4GB of DDR2.

If I did it again, I'd skip the external exhaust, though. It's wicked loud, though it's made case temps very cool.

I've been really happy with the Gigabyte version of the 1 GB GTX460 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125333).  It doesn't exhaust outside the case, but the cooler on it is pretty damned quiet, even under load.

The success of a GPU cooler that doesn't exhaust out of the case is highly contingent upon how well the other case fans are venting hot air out. The issue with case ventilation is that you have to do some research on good cases or just spend a lot of money.

About 2 months or so ago I basically got a new pc, however compared to others' experiences, I had incredibly poor performance while playing Rift. I'm hoping someone can help me out.

AMD Phenom II X6 1055T (2.8 GHz)
GTX 470 1280 MB
4 gig RAM  (DDR3) 1600 MHz
Gigabyte GA 890GPA UD3H
Hitachi Desktar  1 TB 7200 rpm

What is "incredibly poor performance"?

Is there any issue with RIFT on a six core, for some reason?  There's nothing in that build that looks like an outstanding issue to me (other than it being AMD, which I don't use). 

On my Q6600/8800gtx/4gig I was running 24-30fps Ultra in non-raid, 20fps low specs in raid during the invasions. 

Threash and at least one other person in global chat say they were getting 40 60 fps during the raid with max settings. I was getting 8 fps and averaging 20 fps everywhere else. Friday morning tho I was getting 30 40  on average but still in the teens during the raid.

eta: does anyone own a Bigfoot Killer 2100? I'm curious if it's worth buying. I saw it at Fry's for about $90.00. Sounds a bit pricey for a nic.

I stay away from 'performance' NICs. I sincerely doubt they will improve your latency issues if you're having any.

Probably your processor.  The game is still in Beta, so threading optimization and scalability past 2/4 cores may still be in the works, and they might be favouring Intel processors since they tend to be the performance king at the moment.  Might also be seeing a heavier than usual CPU load if they're solving outstanding GPU / sound hardware compatibility problems by running the problematic code in software mode.

I wouldn't buy it just for the reason of the tinkering it preforms to the Windows networking stack. In order to optimize performance it installs and utilizes it's own networking stack to avoid any slowdown. This leads into a whole new slew of support issues (search their forums for fios & bsod problems).

if your shopping for a good network card look at any Intel Gigabit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036). I've been using on-board for a long while, but recently had weird issues with a realtek on-board chip that I'm back to using Intel NIC's.

Don't use RIFT as a performance gauge, especially now (when they're still tweaking the engine). Maybe once it's released and even then only if it's your primary game. Use more standard benchmarks, stuff you see the review sites using. And take anything anyone says about performance with a grain of salt, I call bullshit on anyone saying they were running ultra settings during one of the big raid events and getting 60fps.

Thanks all.


Reading a bit on the official site, it looks like a lot of people with gtx's are having problems. I dunno if that's the root cause, but it's nice to know I'm not the only one having problems.

So, anyone springing for a new Sandy Bridge CPU? I'm thinking about it, since my C2D6750 is getting a bit long in the tooth. I'm considering a Gigabyte motherboard for it. This one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128465) in particular, because it claims to have P67 'native' SATA6 controller rather than the tacked-on Marvel SATA6 controller the other Gigabyte boards have.

Any thoughts?

I have also heard from some folks that there's a new 'feature' on the CPU regarding 'DRM' control that is either a) a way for you to stream 1080p from providers since it encrypts the stream or b) a way for the man to control your computings. Anyone heard of this one way or another?

There's a fair amount of info floating around, it's programmable stuff in the chip, Intel used the streaming DRM "It's not DRM, it's a content management system!" as an example. Early days yet to see if it's evil.

And why the hate on the marvell sata6? Even that board half the sata6 is marvell. It's not like there's even much sata6 out there yet, unless you're dropping big cash on one of the few ssds that support it.

I've been trying to sort out a i7 build for a friend who does freelance 2d art type stuff (product design/advertising stuff). They have been using a laptop with some shit Intel on-board video and its high time for a nice big upgrade so that all of the programs can be run at once with buttery smoothness. The laptop chugs just opening 600+ dpi files into photoshop I'm not sure how they can stand it.

I'm looking at the i7 options and it feels like a bit of a minefield considering the strange price spread on newegg. For mobo I was looking at Asus' Sabertooth x58 as the safe no brainer choice. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16813131665)

Video card though is giving me fits. Adobe says they give extra special blowjob support to GTX285 and GTX470 which I don't take that seriously but is still annoying. The GTX400's run too damn loud and too damn hot for my liking from the reviews I've read but I do prefer NVidia over ATI -I know that ATI is ascendant these days and I've had good ATI cards but for someone else NV still feels safer due to old prejudices- I love my GTX260 that I've had for years but what should I be looking at here?

For ram I wanted to fit 12GB just to do it but I've decided to not throw other people's money away and go with a more reasonable 6GB Corsair XMS3 set for $75 off the egg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16820145258). Should get the jobs done no problem I think.

Budget is $1500 but I'm confident in coming in under while still buying parts that are way better than necessary.

Everything else is easy. Seasonic PSU that handles whatever GPU I choose, some case (letting them pick some they think look cool then will look up reviews) dvd drive and done.

Oh what level of Windows do people buy these days? I'm still running Vista 64 and never had problems with it so I'm clearly the wrong person to ask. I have no idea what the hell the difference between home/pro/ultimate 7-64bit are and hate Microsoft for even making me deal with that shit.

Budget is $1600 but I'm confident in coming under (don't need monitor so extra easy!) while still building a much beefier machine than they'll need. However this is clearly a wouldn't it be nice if they could use it for 6 years type rig so spending some extra cash on cpu/mobo isn't crazy despite the rumors of another quantum leap in the next year or so. Is it?

For video cards I ended up going with this GTX460 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814261076 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814261076) not too long ago. It's actually pretty damn quiet and I ended up getting it for 189.99 plus free shipping. From all the research I did the 460 seems like one of the best bang for your buck cards out there.