Guild Wars 2

[Nebu]

What they are setting out to do is fucking amazing.

Aren't these the famous last words of every development team? 

It's not what they "set out to do", what they "aim to do", or what they "hope to do".  It's what gets rushed out the door at the last minute that matters. 

[Stormwaltz]

It's not what they "set out to do", what they "aim to do", or what they "hope to do".  It's what gets rushed out the door at the last minute that matters.

"Ideas are cheap."

But 'tis nobler to begin with lofty ideas than it is to begin with, "Let's make WoW with a different coat of paint. Ka-ching!"

[Murgos]

"Ideas are cheap."

But 'tis nobler to begin with lofty ideas than it is to begin with, "Let's make WoW with a different coat of paint. Ka-ching!"

At this point I feel that the accompanying sound effect to the "Let's make WoW but different..." should be "Wakka wakka wakka".  Replete with waggling ears and goofy grin.

[Lantyssa]

Aren't these the famous last words of every development team? 

It's not what they "set out to do", what they "aim to do", or what they "hope to do".  It's what gets rushed out the door at the last minute that matters. 

They've shown enough that I believe they've already accomplished what they wanted.  At this point it's a matter of whether the game is engaging enough to be considered fun or not and how rushed for time they are on finishing the areas we haven't seen.

[Nebu]

They've shown enough that I believe they've already accomplished what they wanted.  At this point it's a matter of whether the game is engaging enough to be considered fun or not and how rushed for time they are on finishing the areas we haven't seen.

I know... I was just poking the bear a little.

I'll buy the game and play for a month.  Even if it was just GW with new skins, it will still be worth picking up. 

[Cheddar]

It's not what they "set out to do", what they "aim to do", or what they "hope to do".  It's what gets rushed out the door at the last minute that matters.

"Ideas are cheap."

But 'tis nobler to begin with lofty ideas than it is to begin with, "Let's make WoW with a different coat of paint. Ka-ching!"

Serek Dmart coupons just ran out. New avatar/mmo/theme plz.

Dude, you asked for it,

[pxib]

I'll buy the game and play for a month.  Even if it was just GW with new skins, it will still be worth picking up. 

Especially since that month can be stretched over as many years as the servers stay up... and if you want another month you don't have to pull out a credit card.

[Crumbs]

Was just reading the loot article linked from the home page.  Found a disturbing quote:

"With the transmutation system, you’ll be able to acquire new items known as Transmutation Stones through our in-game store that allow you to customize your appearance."

I didn't realize...is this a pay rl money for in game stuff thing?  (didn't play GW1)

[caladein]

That's my interpretation, yes.  Pay money to add Model of Item A to Stats of Item B.  Want to change model later?  Pay again.

GW1 added costumes last year for $7 but was rather light on microtransactions for the most part.  I expect GW2 to be rather different .

[tmp]

GW1 added costumes last year for $7 but was rather light on microtransactions for the most part.  I expect GW2 to be rather different .

The dye hues themselves will be unlockable through various means, both in-game and out.

Yup

[Rendakor]

I don't see how that's surprising to anyone; with no monthly fee, GW2 is sure to be MTX heavy.

[Zetor]

GW1 had plenty of microtrans: skill unlock packs, extra char slots, makeovers, expanded bank slots, bonus 'flashback' missions, pets, etc. As long as the GW2 cash shop isn't stupid like EQ2 (can't use the AH or legendary items unless you sub), lotro (pay to utilize fast travel) or allods (we just doubled the xp-to-level... btw, xp scrolls are now available in the cash shop!) it should be fine.

[Nebu]

As long as the GW2 cash shop isn't stupid like EQ2 (can't use the AH or legendary items unless you sub), lotro (pay to utilize fast travel) or allods (we just doubled the xp-to-level... btw, xp scrolls are now available in the cash shop!) it should be fine.

To be fair, LotRO travel is easy to open with faction.  You also have classes that can port/summon in combination with access to multiple bind points through deeds.  Where LotRO screwed up was forcing players to obtain TP through the most boring part of the game - Deed grinding.

[Zetor]

When I last played, you couldn't use swift travel at all unless you were a VIP or bought the "$2.50 per non-interruptable hour bus ticket", even if you had the (sometimes crazy) faction requirements to use a swift travel path. Have they changed that?

[Sky]

We took the WaR Dye system, loaded it into the LoTRo Customization system and plan to hit WoW right between the eyes shoulder blades pads.

[Nebu]

Have they changed that?

I don't know about f2p.  I guess I should check that.  I've always been a VIP. 

If you're playing for free, then I don't see what's wrong with dealing with travel times.  Just alt tab while on the horse. 

[Crumbs]

 

My initial, albeit emotional reaction is, "great, so the people willing to dump the most cash into the game are the ones who (using wow comparisons) stand on the mailboxes with their mammoths, see the endgame content, and one shot all the baddies (ie people not willing to pay for the gear) in pvp."

[Ragnoros]

My initial, albeit emotional reaction is, "great, so the people willing to dump the most cash into the game are the ones who (using wow comparisons) stand on the mailboxes with their mammoths, see the endgame content, and one shot all the baddies (ie people not willing to pay for the gear) in pvp."

Jump to conclusions much?

They are selling costume recolors. You end up at: OMG I GOT PKED BY A KID WHO BOUGHT GM WEAPONS! RAGE!!!

[Crumbs]

My initial, albeit emotional reaction is, "great, so the people willing to dump the most cash into the game are the ones who (using wow comparisons) stand on the mailboxes with their mammoths, see the endgame content, and one shot all the baddies (ie people not willing to pay for the gear) in pvp."

Jump to conclusions much?

They are selling costume recolors. You end up at: OMG I GOT PKED BY A KID WHO BOUGHT GM WEAPONS! RAGE!!!

With initial, albeit emotional reactions, yes.

Like I said, I didn't play GW1, but I heard good things about it from people I used to pvp in older games with.  After years of WOW, I'm looking for something with a little more balance.  They're selling GW2 pvp as something you can just jump into, with gear not being a factor (are they not?). 

After reading the article I originally quoted, I did a search on GW1 microtransactions, and found that there were many different types.  Seeing as how GW2 isn't going to have a monthly sub, the subject of microtransactions seemed like an obvious revelation (to me), and at the same time I found it to be deflating. 

So I didn't really jump to a conclusion, I just wanted to post my reaction here in hopes of getting some clarification from anyone who might know.  If the one and only microtransaction in the game is costume recolors, then yay?

[Lantyssa]

What you could buy in GW was all reasonable unlocks, costume gear, and things like extra character slots and eventually storage.

The bought unlocks are for PvP characters.  It's all gear and skills that you could work to get through playing the game or spending Balthazar faction, but if you absolutely must positively have it RIGHT NOW, then you could buy it in one fell swoop for a relatively cheap price.

I've only ever bought the costumes and I don't feel like I was missing out.

[Zetor]

Have they changed that?

I don't know about f2p.  I guess I should check that.  I've always been a VIP. 

If you're playing for free, then I don't see what's wrong with dealing with travel times.  Just alt tab while on the horse. 

I made a few posts on the lotro forums back when it went f2p. Basically, horse times are LONG; to get from one end of Middle-Earth to another you'd need to afk for over 2 hours (technically you couldn't even afk, since you'd need to be there to click the next destination). You can not mitigate it completely with teleport spells, especially if you play a class that doesn't have one. And yeah, it doesn't affect VIPs, but I was only mentioning f2p games in there (since guild wars 1/2 are f2p).

My initial, albeit emotional reaction is, "great, so the people willing to dump the most cash into the game are the ones who (using wow comparisons) stand on the mailboxes with their mammoths, see the endgame content, and one shot all the baddies (ie people not willing to pay for the gear) in pvp."

Jump to conclusions much?

They are selling costume recolors. You end up at: OMG I GOT PKED BY A KID WHO BOUGHT GM WEAPONS! RAGE!!!

With initial, albeit emotional reactions, yes.

Like I said, I didn't play GW1, but I heard good things about it from people I used to pvp in older games with.  After years of WOW, I'm looking for something with a little more balance.  They're selling GW2 pvp as something you can just jump into, with gear not being a factor (are they not?).  

After reading the article I originally quoted, I did a search on GW1 microtransactions, and found that there were many different types.  Seeing as how GW2 isn't going to have a monthly sub, the subject of microtransactions seemed like an obvious revelation (to me), and at the same time I found it to be deflating.  

So I didn't really jump to a conclusion, I just wanted to post my reaction here in hopes of getting some clarification from anyone who might know.  If the one and only microtransaction in the game is costume recolors, then yay?

GW1 microtransactions didn't give you any kind of advantage. Basically you had
- unlock packs: good if you only PVP'd and didn't do the PVE content to unlock skills; anyone else could just unlock them normally or spend their Balthazar points from pvp to do so.
- pet packs, costumes, makeovers, renames: purely cosmetic.
- new chara slots: I never needed to buy any.
- expanded bank slots: Ditto.
- 'flashback' quests: These were mostly for flavor. You could get a good weapon by finishing one, but those are not expensive to buy normally (unlike other games, GW's power curve is very flat -- you start finding "top-end" loot very very soon)

[caladein]

GW1 had plenty of microtrans: skill unlock packs, extra char slots, makeovers, expanded bank slots, bonus 'flashback' missions, pets, etc.

My point is more that GW2 looks to move microtransactions much more to the core of the game versus being on the periphery like it is in GW1.  GW1 microtransactions are limited to:

- A mission pack.
- Cosmetic outfits.
- Skill/pet unlock packs.  (For people that haven't played GW1, these are like Skate 2's Time is Money.  Pay $10, unlock all skills for use from that expansion.)
- Account stuff like extra character slots, renames, sex changes, and appearance redoes.

Now, just from one systems post: you can pay to unlock dyes and you'll need to pay to add/change the model of your gear.  The latter will act as a constant stream of purchases for as long as the servers are up.

[Zetor]

Well, my point was that it's not a gamebreaker at all. As long as they keep their philosophy of 'fluff only' (and that's what dyes are -- you can't even dye stuff in most other games!), I don't mind -- heck, I might even give them some $ occasionally.  

[tmp]

(and that's what dyes are -- you can't even dye stuff in most other games!)

They are pretty much standard at this point, i think? Can't recall off the bat a game i'd play recently that didn't have them to some extent or in some form. Well, there's World of Tanks, but well

edit: unless by other games you mean games that aren't MMOs, in this case my bad for misreading.

[Crumbs]

Sounds good.  If I can jump into some barrel-of-monkeys pvp and some interesting pve content without a 2 year grind commitment, I'm good.  All the better if Joey Credit Card isn't running around one shotting everything with the sword he just spent fifty rl bucks on.  

[Zetor]

(and that's what dyes are -- you can't even dye stuff in most other games!)

They are pretty much standard at this point, i think? Can't recall off the bat a game i'd play recently that didn't have them to some extent or in some form. Well, there's World of Tanks, but well

edit: unless by other games you mean games that aren't MMOs, in this case my bad for misreading.

Ok, I'll rephrase -- the ones in my personal monkeysphere don't have dyes.
The games I played recently with the exception of LOTRO: WOW is the obvious elephant in the living room; COH and CO don't have/need dyes since they have far superior customization anyway. EVE doesn't really have dyes either...

[birdsguts]

To allay Crumbs fears:

I've played GW1 for a long time (since just after launch up until just after Eye of the North). In that time I've followed the forums/news sites and read these guys and heard them talk about their game and their design ideas as well. For all I know I might get proven wrong in the future, but for what it's worth, I don't believe the Anet team would actually institute any kind of RMT that would give anyone an advantage in any way (perm.statistical/temp.buff/vs.P/vs.M). It's against the very heart of what they claim they are trying to accomplish. They frequently said this themselves in older interviews when asked about the PvP system and item purchasing in the original Guild Wars.

If any gear grants combat advantages and can be acquired via a store purchase it will almost certainly be confined to PvE only... and I doubt they'd even go that far. It would be against the rhetoric. In the end only time will tell, obviously.

edit: mixed up expansion titles

[Crumbs]

To allay Crumbs fears:

I've played GW1 for a long time (since just after launch up until just after Nightfall). In that time I've followed the forums/news sites and read these guys and heard them talk about their game and their design ideas as well. For all I know I might get proven wrong in the future, but for what it's worth, I don't believe the Anet team would actually institute any kind of RMT that would give anyone an advantage in any way (perm.statistical/temp.buff/vs.P/vs.M). It's against the very heart of what they claim they are trying to accomplish. They frequently said this themselves in older interviews when asked about the PvP system and item purchasing in the original Guild Wars.

If any gear grants combat advantages and can be acquired via a store purchase it will almost certainly be confined to PvE only... and I doubt they'd even go that far. It would be against the rhetoric. In the end only time will tell, obviously.

Cool, thank you.

[Shatter]

To allay Crumbs fears:

I've played GW1 for a long time (since just after launch up until just after Nightfall). In that time I've followed the forums/news sites and read these guys and heard them talk about their game and their design ideas as well. For all I know I might get proven wrong in the future, but for what it's worth, I don't believe the Anet team would actually institute any kind of RMT that would give anyone an advantage in any way (perm.statistical/temp.buff/vs.P/vs.M). It's against the very heart of what they claim they are trying to accomplish. They frequently said this themselves in older interviews when asked about the PvP system and item purchasing in the original Guild Wars.

If any gear grants combat advantages and can be acquired via a store purchase it will almost certainly be confined to PvE only... and I doubt they'd even go that far. It would be against the rhetoric. In the end only time will tell, obviously.

As much as I would like to believe this is the case companies change and their direction does as well.  Seeing the success of GW1 there is little doubt that they are looking at huge $$ from GW2 and making it as successful as possible..thats business.  So I guess the point is that regardless of what they did on GW1, what they do from a business standpoint in GW2 could be completely different(someone in a suit sees $$$).  But yes, time will tell...

[UnSub]

How many of the core people who developed GW1 are still working on GW2? ArenaNet lost a heap of senior people due to NCsoft politics or those who went off to set up their own studios.

[Lantyssa]

My impression is that the dev team has kept a lot of the same people.  All the news I've heard about so-and-so leaving GW1 is that it was for GW2.

[pxib]

In the original Guild Wars there just wasn't enough quantitative difference between high end gear to make it worth buying. There was a specific combination of qualitative features you wanted on your outfit to match whichever set of abilities you were using, but all the combinations were available somewhere and it was just a matter of finding the right one. Over time they made it easier and easier to get those combinations, and as the game stands now you can hunt down the specific weapon bonuses you want and attach them to whichever weapon you happen to have. They're also unlockable in PvP-only mode for mix-and-match access there.

What their players fought for instead... what they struggled for, arranged groups for, and made deep trips into difficult dungeons for... was cosmetic outfits. Folks had a real pride in picking up sets of armor that were particularly esoteric to collect or construct. They showed off the goofy custom emotes they could do because of their PvP ranking. They wore silly holiday hats at inappropriate times. They paid real money at the online store for costumes.

In short, with no way to improve their characters' performance other than to learn how to set their skills and how to play the game, players found somewhere else to focus their desire to waste time and money on their avatar.

I can't imagine ArenaNet would suddenly decide to throw game-breaking gear at people for money. Or even experience buffs. They'd lose player goodwill, and they wouldn't get any more cash than they would selling jester hats and sparkle ponies.

[birdsguts]

Exactly.
Give people the ability to customize themselves and craft a really "unique" and personal image... something they can actually identify with... and they will be more than happy to throw some microtran cash at it or grind their butts off for it and walk away feeling more invested in their character. It's killing two birds with one stone and I hope they are still too smart to just toss that away for dollar signs. ... and then he says the obligatory bit about "we've seen that happen before however etc etc etc doom doom doom".

[birdsguts]

http://www.arena.net/blog/john-and-eric-answer-your-items-and-loot-questions

Questions. Answers. Some that pertain to stuff above.

[Zetor]

For those who played GW1... Hall of Monuments info is out. Basically, your "achievements" in GW1 transfer into cosmetic pets / item appearances / titles in GW2.

Use this calculator to see where you stand. I'm currently only 5/50, and I gotta say, I have this sudden urge to get at least 10 more points so I get a zombie chicken!