Guild Wars 2

[Zzulo]

I think the "combine powers from different players" idea sounds pretty neat.

[Modern Angel]

That's the next logical step in the GW way of doing things though, isn't it? GW lived and died by it nifty synergy mechanics between classes and between stuff on your own bar. In the glory days some of the most fun I've had in a social game was cooking up team builds with my friends.

[Shatter]

GW2 is one of only a few MMO's coming out the next couple years I am actually excited about.  On that note I'm still a little leery on how some of the above mentioned game mechanics will work, but hopeful they can follow through and not turn it into sh*t.  I'd be pretty happy to get a beta key for this one. 

[UnSub]

I can't remember what game it was, but I remember somewhere playing a healer and not caring whether my heals were effective at keeping my side alive - only that I landed a heal on as many people as possible, because it would increase my odds of getting rewards, or something like that.  I don't recall the details, but I distinctly recall being annoyed at having to approach with that attitude in order to maximize rewards.

Wasn't that WAR?

[CharlieMopps]

Am I the only person here that didn't think Guild Wars was an MMO?

[Nebu]

Am I the only person here that didn't think Guild Wars was an MMO?

It is in the very loosest sense, but I never considered it an MMO either.  

[KallDrexx]

It's as much of an MMO as DDO.

[Zzulo]

Day II of information release process

The Basics
Hi! I'm Eric Flannum, the lead designer for Guild Wars 2. Over the next few months, we'll be telling you about the professions, races, lore, and game systems of Guild Wars 2, as well as talking about our design philosophy and thoughts about the game. First up: combat!

We've got a lot of amazing things planned for combat in Guild Wars 2, and I'll try to cover as many of them as possible before wearing out my welcome. Let's start with the basics.

One of our priorities in developing Guild Wars 2 has been to make the simple act of moving around and interacting with the world an enjoyable experience for our players. We often refer to this as introducing "joy of movement" into the game. This means being able to jump and swim freely, but it also translates directly into combat.

To reinforce the importance of movement in the game, we want your character's position in combat to really matter. You'll see a lot of attacks in Guild Wars 2 that encourage and reward tactical player movement and positioning.

To illustrate what I'm talking about, I was watching two of our game designers--Jon and Isaiah--play the other day. Jon is using his shield to deflect the fire breath of a drake, when Isaiah hits the drake from behind with a skill called Devastating Hammer, launching it into the air. The drake is sent flying over Jon's head, who immediately turns and uses a skill called Savage Leap to impale and finish the drake right as it hits the ground. This was a very cool looking (and effective!) sequence of events that flowed very naturally from how combat in Guild Wars 2 works.

We want combat in Guild Wars 2 to really be visually appealing. We want you to be able to identify the skills being used at a glance and also have a good idea of what that skill is doing. Does a skill have an area of effect? Is it doing damage? What type of damage? Our goal is to design skills that are visually unique and explain them without overly complex skill descriptions. This has resulted in a lot of distinct and impressive skill effects in the game. Even a simple skill like fireball explodes in such a way that you can clearly see the area that they will affect. Beyond your typical fireballs and lightning bolts, you'll see skills that create giant crushing stone hands, turn their users into massive tornadoes, and summon flocks of vicious birds of prey (a particular favorite skill of many people after they see it in action).





The Skill System
Much like in Guild Wars, the skill bar in Guild Wars 2 is limited to a set number of skills. Like a collectible card game, we provide the player with a wide variety of choices and allow them to pick and choose skills to create a build that best suits their particular play style. For example, one Guild Wars 2 warrior might decide to build his character around gradual damage which causes his opponents to bleed out, while another may choose to knock his opponents down, controlling their movement with slow, large attacks. Both warriors can choose to equip the skills that matter most to them. It is also very important to us that our skill system be simple to use, leaving the screen as clean and unintimidating as possible. All of this combines to give us a skill bar and skill system that's a bit different than what you'd typically find in an MMO.


The Ten Slot Skill Bar
The first five skills on the skill bar are not slotted directly by the player; instead they are determined by the player's choice of weapon and profession. Because of this, we can ensure that each weapon is balanced with a fun combination of skills. For example, a warrior wielding a mace and shield would get access to strong but slow damage skills like Obliterate, as well as powerful defensive skills such as Block and Shield Bash. A warrior wielding a greatsword would have access to a lot of movement-oriented skills like Rush, and area-of-effect skills like 100 Blades. In each case, the warrior's first five skills are determined by what he's holding in his hands. Weapon skills also take profession into account, so a warrior wielding a sword will have different skills than a different sword-wielding profession.

To provide additional variety to the mix, most professions can have two different weapon sets equipped and can very quickly and easily swap between the sets. For example, a warrior might keep a longbow or rifle for engaging foes at a distance, and then switch to a hammer when that enemy gets close.

We've talked about the first five skills being determined by weapon and profession. What about the second five? These skills are all chosen by the player from a pool of skills determined by both profession and race. To slot a skill, a player simply clicks on a skill slot and it will bring up a list of skills that can be put into that slot. One of these slots is dedicated to healing skills that replenish the health of the character and his allies, while another slot is dedicated to elite skills that trigger visually spectacular and powerful effects. No matter what type of skill is involved, it's important that we give the player a diverse set of tools to choose from so that he can create a build that he'll enjoy playing.

For example, a human Elementalist can choose to bring Aura of Restoration, which is a buff that heals him every time he uses a skill, or he can choose to bring Glyph of Healing, which is a more straightforward heal. A warrior might take the Frenzy skill, which will fill his adrenaline gauge instantly; the shout skill Fear Me! which inflicts the weakness condition on surrounding foes; or the Banner of Courage skill, which inspires his allies and increases their melee damage.

Elite skills are designed to be infrequently-used, ultra-powerful skills that have a dramatic impact on the game. An Elementalist can call upon the power of the wind to shapeshift into a tornado that knocks enemies around and inflicts heavy damage, while a warrior might choose to harness the power of Destruction, to make all of his blows inflict area-of-effect damage.

Tomorrow: Weapons, Professions and Races

[Zzulo]

Oh yeah, more stuff:


Information on the Elementalist with 5 in-game videos showing it in action:
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/elementalist/

And a new interview:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/04/28/guild-wars-2-interview-part-1-fighting-fires/#more-29417

[Draegan]

I love the 10 skills max hotbar design.

Edit:
I love those 5 videos.  Nice animation, sounds and visuals.

[raydeen]

I'm going to have to get a new computer if I want to play this.

Feck.

[Ingmar]

Am I the only person here that didn't think Guild Wars was an MMO?

You may be the only person who thinks it matters if it is.

[Nija]

First thing to turn off: stupid catchphrases the characters say.

[Rendakor]

One of our priorities in developing Guild Wars 2 has been to make the simple act of moving around and interacting with the world an enjoyable experience for our players. We often refer to this as introducing "joy of movement" into the game. This means being able to jump and swim freely, but it also translates directly into combat.

We often refer to this as introducing "joy of movement" into the game. This means being able to jump and swim freely, but it also translates directly into combat.

This means being able to jump and swim freely, but it also translates directly into combat.

jump

Thank god.

[SnakeCharmer]

Wow, that's purty.

Dx11?

[Draegan]

I wonder what the release timeframe is.  2011? 2012?

There are a decent amount of games to look forward to coming from "big names"

SWTOR in 2011 or so.
FFXIV in 2010 (probably 2011).
Rift, Planes of Telara (Rift? RPT? PoT?) in 2011 though not a big name company, has some big names attached to it.

There's a decent chance we'll get at least a decent game out of those three.  Good timing too.  WOW is aged and still has an expansion coming out this year.  I wonder if we'll get a taste of the next Blizzard MMOG this year (probably next year).

[Zzulo]

First thing to turn off: stupid catchphrases the characters say.

I don't know, I don't mind automated phrases and such, as long as they are somewhat varied and do not happen all the time. For example, I love how in Bad Company II, you can hear the automated responses all over the place, but it never really gets annoying or stands out too much. Hopefully GW2 strikes a similar good balance.

[Draegan]

Perfect Bad Example: Voices in Aion.

[pxib]

Wow, that's purty.

Dx11?

Not necessarily... one thing their art team was great at in the first game was making low end graphics look spectacular. I wouldn't be surprised if this will play on any machine around today, and just looks slightly more spectacular on a high end box.

The only video that got me was the Phoenix. I think it flew out and back, and the caster changed positions to have it hit a different mob on the return. I also like the "5 of your skills are from your class and what you're wielding" idea.

[Fordel]

I have no doubt that the GW2 combat Mechanics will be awesome, GW solved like 98% of the problems with traditional MMO style fight mechanics years ago.

[Zzulo]

more and more interviews popping up

http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/guildwars2/news.html?sid=6260499&om_act=convert&om_clk=newsfeatures&tag=newsfeatures;title;1&mode=previews

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/4198/Guild-Wars-2-Exclusive-Interview.html

[Nonentity]

Perfect Bad Example: Voices in Aion.

Oooo, a DAEVA! Nyerk nyerk!

[CharlieMopps]

Am I the only person here that didn't think Guild Wars was an MMO?

You may be the only person who thinks it matters if it is.

Just that it's in the wrong forum is all.

I enjoyed the game... for a few weeks. It's more like a FPS than an MMO though.

And as far as everyone liking the graphics and what-not... you should know better than to believe anything released right now. This is all pre-generated hype and will likely have little to do with what the game looks like when it's released.

[Ingmar]

It looks basically like a prettied up GW, so I expect that is basically exactly what it is going to look like visually, actually.

As far as being in the wrong forum, GW2 is not going to all happen in instances like GW did apparently, so, um, yeah?

[pxib]

Of Massively, Multiplayer, and Online, I assume you're debating the "massively". I interacted with more different people in Guild Wars than I have in any other game I've played. As much as everything was instanced, there was only one "shard"... so it's not like I'd have to start over to play with any new person I happened to meet. I put the folks I liked playing with on my friend list and eventually joined a guild with a few of them.

Then when we wanted to play together, either in PvP or PvE, we'd call on our guildmates, and the guildmates of our friends and everybody would go run an instance together. It was effortless, interactive, and our progress was persistent. I never had to play alone until I wanted to play alone. If anything the "lobby" spaces between instances often felt simultaneously busier and more purposeful than the ones that exist in, say, WoW.

If you're arguing that it's not massive if you're not fighting over boss spawns, then you have point... but one you could level against almost every modern game.

[Count Nerfedalot]

It's as much of an MMO as DDO.

Both are just as much MMOs as the original Diablo.  MMO being neither the first nor the last term to be trivialized to meaninglessness by marketing hacks.

But it sounds like one of the big changes in GW2 is that it really will be MMO this time, so yes, this is the correct forum for it.

I do wonder what degree of instancing will remain though, and if none, how will they handle too many people in too small a space?  Other valid reasons for instancing (like separating me and my play from those whose idea of fun play is disrupting my play) may be solved by other means.  But non-draconian options for dealing with the technical limitations of too many people wanting to be in the same area at the same time are few and far between.  

[DLRiley]

So basically noobing up Guild Wars so its impossible to fuck up and show how stupid you are beyond being unable to play the game period. For example in guild wars 1 players had 8 free choices, you can or can not chose to bring vital skills, you can even troll your party members via your skill selection, you can be a totally different class if your secondary allows you to do so. Now? You have real 3 choices in a 10 slot skill bar and the 2 other choices you have is basically the games way of saying "look here dumb idiot take the uber skill and the heal/support skill". I guess this will work considering your typical mmo player have an IQ close to 0 so the hand holding is very necessary. As for me...meh, I'm waiting to see how this plays out competitively.

[Fordel]

Considering how many skills were tied to weapons to begin with in GW, it isn't that big of a change really.


Having dedicated support slots could also be a way of insuring that we don't end up with stalemate builds.

[DLRiley]

Considering how many skills were tied to weapons to begin with in GW, it isn't that big of a change really.


Having dedicated support slots could also be a way of insuring that we don't end up with stalemate builds.

Well lets consider the context, the Warrior, Paragon, Dervish, Ranger, and Assassin has skills tied to their primary weapons (in the warriors case 3). However to do the job of taking someone from 600+ health to 0 in reasonable time, none of them really needed to fill their skill bar with skills of their weapon mastery. Even the warrior at most needed 4 skills from his weapon mastery to do so (which is why the sword mastery was rarely used lolz). If you play guild wars now, it is perfectly possible for a warrior to not have a single skill from his weapon spec and still achieve competitive results. The paragon can do his job just fine with 2 skills from spear mastery (which is basically the standard), the assassin (before nerfed to high hell) could score kills just as easy without a single point in daggers his primary weapon. The flexibility is my concerned and i know they are trading a lot of it for ease of use. Having to rely on a none customizable weapons bar that accounts for 5 out of the 10 skills your provided is barely a step forward.  

Stalemates happen when both teams become so focus on not breaking under pressure that they devote more skill slots than needed in order to prevent that from happening ever. This is possible only when you build around the concept that everyone and their grandmother takes a support skill. This is common with two types of builds euro builds and spike builds, where the goal is to bring just enough offense to focus fire someone down in .5 seconds (not kidding) and mostly build around keeping each other alive between the intervals of spell cool downs, though euro builds brought some pressure to the table because of the reliance of warriors to do 45% of the damage. This of course created very long games. Not really because the cooldowns were long, a proper spike build had a 3-5 second interval between spikes if not pressured properly. But because it only took 2 types of skills in the game to out right block it and 3 others to weaken it.

Now typical guild wars logic is that self healing <<< 6 guys looking at you funny. This is such common knowledge that anyone who even thinks that one self healing skill is going to mean shit is probably be laughed at all the way back to wow or war or whatever backwards shit mmo they come from. The real concern is the party healing spread about 2-3 different toons besides the main healer.

[Sheepherder]

Wow, that's purty.

Dx11?

DX11 only adds support for hardware tessellation.  Which will make for some really cool looking rough stone block walls sometime in the near future.  But is has nothing to do with what you are seeing.

[Fordel]

Presumably in this system, the Main Healer weapons would provide those skills, no?

[DLRiley]

Presumably in this system, the Main Healer weapons would provide those skills, no?

yes and no. Ok your making a new game to appeal to what todays kids expect from an mmo an its classes. Your building in big retard exclamation point signs and signals into your rather complex system in order for joe wow player who thinks he is something on his level 80 or whatever pvp server toon can understand the game without feeling extremely stupid. Coming from shit like war or aoc, if you give a healer a weapon people expect it to be used as a weapon. If the developers go that route than I'm going to cry for the competitive scene, considering that every match will end in under a minute 30. No way in hell even 6 people can be kept alive with 10 skills (really 6-8  because of auxiliary skill options like energy management or counters to cc). However if the developer does the practical method of giving the healer staff healing abilities I do doubt that they will say "here is the big heal that prevents people from killing your teammates in .3 seconds but you lose half your life in return" and "here is the really strong protection spell that prevents your party member from losing 10% of his life for 2 seconds", since neither skill is pve friendly. An item has to be strong for pve so counters to the pvp metagame won't be built in simply because pve =! pvp. First golden law of guild wars.  

[Sheepherder]

[FatuousTwat]

Is guildwars2.com down for anyone else? Has been all day for me.

[Fordel]

Yea, I'm going with Sheep on this one.