Cataclysm

[Paelos]

At best, you have a trash spec and a boss spec.

That's a bit over the top for heroics really. I frankly cannot be arsed to wait for a minute before and after each boss so some mage or lock can switch specs, rebuff and drink to full. It's hardly like the disparity between trash and bosses is insurmountable.

I meant more for raiding there. You can have a raid spec and a heroic spec as well.

[ezrast]

Right now both my mage's specs are arcane*, both my druid's specs are feral, and both my shaman's specs are resto. Because sometimes I want to PeeVeePee.

*well, they were when I played her; I'm sure they're reset now

[kildorn]

There is no excuse for spec anymore.  Affl lock not doing well? You should have dual spec, go destro.  If you wanna be a frost mage or subtlety rogue or whatever lower dps spec you better pull your weight and if not, switch. It's not lilke asking someone to go from tank to healer here. Every class have a good dps spec for heroic, no reason not to use it.

Trash spec/Boss spec would be terrible. Aside from keeping two sets of heroic/epic gear (affliction and destro have opposite opinions on the values of haste and crit), at least for casters, you're talking "okay, boss time, let me cast change spec, resummon my pet, and drink/lifetap+soulchannel!" instead of just accepting that some classes have dps ramp up time, and trash means they won't be rolling 11k the entire instance.

Personally, I'm fine with 7k on trash and just blow your cooldowns to hit 10/12k on bosses. Just don't keep doing iffy dps when we hit a boss.

[Paelos]

You do realize the majority of time in heroics is spent on trash right? I would be happier with more dps there as long as there isn't a gigantic drop off on the bosses, not the other way around.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Hey, I'm not saying people can't play the way they want but "I know this spec is really low dps but i have fun in it" doesnt cut it for me. You want to have fun in your retarded pvp build? fine. Just go play pvp and don't drag down a heroic or just dual spec into something useful.

[K9]

Other than lolsubtelty, are there any DPS specs which really are that fundamentally bad?

[kildorn]

Other than lolsubtelty, are there any DPS specs which really are that fundamentally bad?

No. It's the difference between 7k and 10k on trash, pretty much. Everyone is 9-11k on bosses.

Poor trash specs are those with ramp up times to hit peak damage.

[Ingmar]

I keep hearing that marks and BM are both terrible.

[K9]

That might just be relative to Survival though.

[koro]

Meh. Told my guild to not expect me back after my time card runs out in a couple weeks. After my girlfriend observed that I seemed to hate pretty much everything I do in WoW now, I realized she was right: the only things I was having fun doing were archaeology and leveling my lowbie Shaman; if I'm enjoying archaeology more than most everything else, something's badly wrong. Guild Heroic runs are either butter-smooth or multi-hour wipe-fests, PUG heroics are, for me, usually nightmarish, and pretty much everything raiding has left me totally cold.

Call me a "Wrath baby" if you like, but at least I had fun then.

[Azuredream]

I cringe when I hear that term, if for no other reason than it sounds stupid.

[Xanthippe]

Meh. Told my guild to not expect me back after my time card runs out in a couple weeks. After my girlfriend observed that I seemed to hate pretty much everything I do in WoW now, I realized she was right: the only things I was having fun doing were archaeology and leveling my lowbie Shaman; if I'm enjoying archaeology more than most everything else, something's badly wrong. Guild Heroic runs are either butter-smooth or multi-hour wipe-fests, PUG heroics are, for me, usually nightmarish, and pretty much everything raiding has left me totally cold.

Call me a "Wrath baby" if you like, but at least I had fun then.

You mean you weren't inspired by Ghostcrawler's post about how heroics are supposed to be hard, and you just need to learn to play?

[Ashamanchill]

I would be with koro but I am having way too damn much fun pvping as a prot pally right now. It's weird, I usually hate pvp, but there it is.

[koro]

Meh. Told my guild to not expect me back after my time card runs out in a couple weeks. After my girlfriend observed that I seemed to hate pretty much everything I do in WoW now, I realized she was right: the only things I was having fun doing were archaeology and leveling my lowbie Shaman; if I'm enjoying archaeology more than most everything else, something's badly wrong. Guild Heroic runs are either butter-smooth or multi-hour wipe-fests, PUG heroics are, for me, usually nightmarish, and pretty much everything raiding has left me totally cold.

Call me a "Wrath baby" if you like, but at least I had fun then.

You mean you weren't inspired by Ghostcrawler's post about how heroics are supposed to be hard, and you just need to learn to play?

Or the multitude of posts everywhere else going "man heroic PUGs are fine."

Heroic PUGs are only the half of it. The raids themselves just turn me completely off. 10-man raiding is so class and spec-dependent that it's almost not even worth banging your head against an encounter for three hours a night unless you're running with a tried and tested and successful comp. I've heard 25-mans are more lenient and a lot more approachable, but there aren't any good 25-man guilds I'd want to be a part of on my server.

[Paelos]

I think I identified the problem I have with heroics. They are wildly uneven in places. One boss is hardly different from regular while another is just an orgy of running out of shit.

I think that Blizzard knows now that the only thing that makes a fight "challenging" anymore is adding a shitload of ground effects.

[Sjofn]

It's not the only way to make heroic fights challenging, but it's the only "obvious enough for anyone wandering into it for the first time" way.

[Minvaren]

One night in Bilgewater makes a hard orc humble.  

(edit: Ok, the Twilight Highlands pre-quests are getting fun(ny).)

[Paelos]

It's not the only way to make heroic fights challenging, but it's the only "obvious enough for anyone wandering into it for the first time" way.

Oh I left out adds. So far the ones ppl seem to have trouble with center around ground effects or annoying adds. I'm trying to think of a tough heroic dungeon fight that doesn't include at least one if not both, and I'm coming up dry.

[Ashamanchill]

As a playability issue Blizz should consider throwing in those gems and item enchant materials for justice points again. It might get a few reluctant tanks and healers to hit the queue again.

/shrug


Also, if they wanted to put some gems back up for honour, I know a certain honour capped Prot Pally and his friends who would be grateful.

[Shrike]

Also, if they wanted to put some gems back up for honour, I know a certain honour capped Prot Pally and his friends who would be grateful.
[/quote

They probably will, but not until after epic gems are back in the game.

[kildorn]

Looking through the JP stuff, part of the issue is that the tank gear is useless. Like, itemized really, really poorly. I can think of two pieces I may want, that's it. My priest would like practically a full set, however.

[Rendakor]

My complaint isn't even that the shit is poorly itemized (it is), but that there's no reliable consumable to spend points on. I already had every heirloom in existence (and most classes at 80 anyway) in WotLK, so once I got all my tank gear there's NOTHING I can get from JP at all. No Chaos Orbs, no gems, nothing.

[Sheepherder]

It's not the only way to make heroic fights challenging, but it's the only "obvious enough for anyone wandering into it for the first time" way.

And they tend to only use obvious mechanics, because losing gold and time because of obtuse mechanics frustrates people, and they can't afford to do that.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, that's what I was trying to hint at.

[SurfD]

My complaint isn't even that the shit is poorly itemized (it is), but that there's no reliable consumable to spend points on. I already had every heirloom in existence (and most classes at 80 anyway) in WotLK, so once I got all my tank gear there's NOTHING I can get from JP at all. No Chaos Orbs, no gems, nothing.

I imagine this will only be the case untill the next Raid content push.  Then EVERYTHING currently available for VP gets bumped down to the JP bracket, and at that point, I imagine they will probably add Chaos orbs and possibly Gems into the JP vendors as well.

At the moment, the only people who have a use for Excess JP once they have everything they want is Enchanters, because they can buy the JP gear and DE it for shards.

[apocrypha]

Hey, I'm not saying people can't play the way they want but "I know this spec is really low dps but i have fun in it" doesnt cut it for me. You want to have fun in your retarded pvp build? fine. Just go play pvp and don't drag down a heroic or just dual spec into something useful.

Hang on, who was this thread direction originally aimed at? I never said anything about my mage's spec. He's arcane.

[Rendakor]

I imagine this will only be the case untill the next Raid content push.  Then EVERYTHING currently available for VP gets bumped down to the JP bracket, and at that point, I imagine they will probably add Chaos orbs and possibly Gems into the JP vendors as well.

At the moment, the only people who have a use for Excess JP once they have everything they want is Enchanters, because they can buy the JP gear and DE it for shards.

Fair enough; that's not exactly coming any time soon. The only use I imagine I'll have for Chaos Orbs then will be the new recipes they inevitably add, assuming they use Chaos Orbs still and not New_Raid_Orb_X. Gems will be nice.

[SurfD]

I imagine this will only be the case untill the next Raid content push.  Then EVERYTHING currently available for VP gets bumped down to the JP bracket, and at that point, I imagine they will probably add Chaos orbs and possibly Gems into the JP vendors as well.

At the moment, the only people who have a use for Excess JP once they have everything they want is Enchanters, because they can buy the JP gear and DE it for shards.

Fair enough; that's not exactly coming any time soon. The only use I imagine I'll have for Chaos Orbs then will be the new recipes they inevitably add, assuming they use Chaos Orbs still and not New_Raid_Orb_X. Gems will be nice.

Speak of the devil.  The following just showed up on the latest round of patch notes posted on MMO champ:

Items

    * The Honor Commodities and Justice Commodities Vendors now sell raw tradeskill materials. These are not intended to be a cost-effective source of these materials, but an option for players with lots of Justice or Honor Points who have already purchased all of the gear that interests them.

Unfortunately, no list as of yet about what is included in their new inventories has been posted anywyere that I could find.

[Hawkbit]

I'm hoping they put ore, leather, dust, cloth.  With prices upwards of 30g per single piece of embersilk on my server, I need some other way to get at this stuff. 

[Merusk]

I'm hoping they put ore, leather, dust, cloth.  With prices upwards of 30g per single piece of embersilk on my server, I need some other way to get at this stuff. 

Good lord, still?  Are you on a small pop server?  Embersilk dropped to 6g/ piece a week or two ago on mine, shortly after they gave extra cloth drops to tailors again.

Heavenly Dust, on the other hand, is still ridiculously expensive and the essences are something like 32g each.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I sold a pair of epic tailored cloth pants for 20k on my server. Some people are insane.

[Hawkbit]

High pop server, one of the first launched.  We have what amounts to a trade cartel with our AH, I think.  There are people that likely spend more time working the AH than actually playing the game.  Things look better this morning, at 10g per piece, though with it being the weekend it will be all over the place.

[lesion]

With prices upwards of 30g per single piece of embersilk on my server, I need some other way to get at this stuff. 

Have you tried killing ogres at Glopgut's Hollow?

[kildorn]

With prices upwards of 30g per single piece of embersilk on my server, I need some other way to get at this stuff. 

Have you tried killing ogres at Glopgut's Hollow?

Murder large numbers of ghosts/humanoids in TB, as well. I spent 2 hours farming The Leftovers mobs when we owned TB and came out with two bags full of embersilk stacks.

[Minvaren]

There are people that likely spend more time working the AH than actually playing the game.

I've played with a few people who spend more time playing the AH than anything else.  I don't quite get it myself, but they don't understand why I'm rep grinding either.  But hey, WoW does seem to have a little something for everyone.