Cataclysm

[SurfD]

That was only the first talent pass, I'm sure things will change more.

Time for a little cognitive dissonance I have with people who complain about the new talent trees, especially the lack of a new button to push. At this point I don't really understand why people *want* more stuff to clog up their bars. The classes and specs are mostly quite deep now, adding anything without taking something else away is just not at all what I want.

Things like devastate replacing sunder armor, or heart strike replacing blood strike = good. Adding an entirely new button that I have to find a bar/bind for = not good.

Depend a lot on how they impliment that new button.  The new feral bear one (Pulverize?) is a good implimentation.  Now, we will actually have a distinct single target and multi target rotation.  Our current Single target rotation is just FF / Mangle when off cooldown, stack lacerate to 5 then lacerate every 12 seconds, and swipe like a madman whenever there isnt another buton to push (have maul macroed to EVERYTHING).  Current Multi Target rotation is exactly the same, except you throw in a Tab after every other button press.

Pulversze will probably see us dropping swipe entirely from a sigle target rotation in favour of a Lacerate to 5, Pulverize, repeat in ten second intervals kind of process

[Ingmar]

The new implementation of maul pretty much counts as an additional button as well I think.

[Sjofn]

The hunters are the only class that seem to really get behind the YAY NO NEW BUTTONS thing. Like there were some people who were all "where's our new stuff :( " and they promptly got told to shut up by the gazillion other hunters. It amused the shit out of me. 

[Draegan]

I'm going to play a Warlock.  I havn't played one since vanilla and there will be lots of new there.

[Rendakor]

Hunters are getting an entirely new mechanic though, which makes up for the lack of new buttons.

[Fordel]

My Moonkin is getting desperately needed new buttons!

[Typhon]

I'm ok with no new damage/mitigation/healing abilities.  I'm disappointed that we're continuing to see "increase damage/mitigation/healing from x by y%" in the trees.  I expected there to still be some, but I didn't expect that there would still be most.

I expected more stuff like "increase your run speed by X for 5 seconds after you cast Y", or "shoot butterflies out of your ass when you cast Z".  More fun stuff.  Not a reshuffling of stuff with very little new flavor.

[Sjofn]

Hunters are getting an entirely new mechanic though, which makes up for the lack of new buttons.

They don't want new buttons is my point. Because they already have a billion.

[Rendakor]

Ahh, fair enough; I'm just projecting then. Hunter was my main in Vanilla but haven't really played once since, and I'm looking forward to them now that they won't have mana.

[Merusk]

All I'm able to say is ;  I remember the first time I played WoW and how blown away I was.  I'm not looking forward to this expansion at all.

I think it's done.

It's still massively succesful, I think, and will carry on for YEARS, but I'm pretty much done.

Welcome to my side of the fence.  The grass is brown here but I find I'm getting a lot more work done on things people will still go "oh, nice!" about 10 years from now.  I blame getting older.

[kildorn]

The hunters are the only class that seem to really get behind the YAY NO NEW BUTTONS thing. Like there were some people who were all "where's our new stuff :( " and they promptly got told to shut up by the gazillion other hunters. It amused the shit out of me. 

Warlocks also seem to be in the "you gave us new spells. Uh, thanks? Hey, could you spell out EXACTLY what we are intended to do with this, because I think we currently have a button for everything" camp

Though I do think every Lich King raid boss is designed to have a run around phase JUST long enough for all your stacks of things to fall off.

[Ratman_tf]

All I'm able to say is ;  I remember the first time I played WoW and how blown away I was.  I'm not looking forward to this expansion at all.

I think it's done.

It's still massively succesful, I think, and will carry on for YEARS, but I'm pretty much done.

I started to feel this way about Wrath. Momentum from being in a guild kept me going. I haven't played in a while, and have little enthusiasm for Cata. I've played the damn thing since release. I can't blame Blizz for anything except keeping me entertained for years with WoW.

[Ironwood]

Hell, I'm not throwing blame around.  It's entirely possible that they could redesign the whole thing with nothing but fun puppies and I'd still say 'meh'.

The hunter Focus thing is cool, but I'd imagine it'd get really confusing to figure out what's what at first. 

[Paelos]

Hell, I'm not throwing blame around.  It's entirely possible that they could redesign the whole thing with nothing but fun puppies and I'd still say 'meh'.

The hunter Focus thing is cool, but I'd imagine it'd get really confusing to figure out what's what at first. 

I've stopped playing except for two hours on Sundays. I never have the desire to do a 25 man ever again now, and I barely have the desire to show up for the last part of a 10 man that's way over-geared trying to get a kill on the Lich King.

I will say that I'm happy we will see the death of 25 mans for the casuals in Cataclysm, and we get some fun revamps. However, I don't level alts, and I'm questioning the need to bother with the expansion if the whole point was revamping lands for lower levels.

[Sjofn]

I suspect the "I don't level alts" crowd is down to like. Four people at this point.

I am curious, though. Why don't you have any alts at all? Do you love whatever you've been playing just that much? And when you say you don't level alts, does that mean you've not ever gotten past X level with an alt, or do you seriously have nothing but your main (and maybe some bank alts) or what? I ask because I only know one other person who honestly doesn't have any alts at all and I find it sort of fascinating.

[Lakov_Sanite]

If you don't level alts, don't like the endgame and don't like pvp that's fine, you don't like the game anymore.  Lord knows I got sick of raiding, I'll eventually probably get tired of the game in general. I just dont think that means the game is dying or getting stale, it just means you personally are tired of it.

[Paelos]

I suspect the "I don't level alts" crowd is down to like. Four people at this point.

I am curious, though. Why don't you have any alts at all? Do you love whatever you've been playing just that much? And when you say you don't level alts, does that mean you've not ever gotten past X level with an alt, or do you seriously have nothing but your main (and maybe some bank alts) or what? I ask because I only know one other person who honestly doesn't have any alts at all and I find it sort of fascinating.

I have a full stable of characters. I've tried every class. I got a priest into the 30s, a shaman and hunter into the 20s, and the rest of them into the teens. At some point, I just looked at them and went, "I'm a warrior tank playstyle, this is stupid," and I never picked them up again. I did most of this during the second year of vanilla, then i did a shaman after the first year of BC, then I put two levels into a DK about three months ago.

By "I don't have alts," I mean I don't have a secondary set of characters that have seen daylight after about a weekend of diversion. I should have deleted them all, but I was too lazy.

[Sjofn]

So it's the first one, you just wuvvums your main that much. The other guy I know, he hates doing quests. I don't really know why (or how) he stuck with WoW to get ONE character to cap, frankly, but there you have it!

Ditching a class in the teens seems a bit early to me, but if you really love warrior tanking SO MUCH you can't even imagine playing something else, I guess it isn't. 

[koro]

This one kid (and I do mean kid; he's no older than 15) in my guild has multiple 80s. Absolutely hates questing in any way, shape, or form. For a long time he refused to even do dailies until he found out they were good money. I doubt any character on his account has any achievement for completed quests higher than 500, if that. Apparently the only things he will do to level are running dungeons and battlegrounds.

I suspect that if he were around in vanilla or TBC he'd never have gotten past 30.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Battleground wins on BG weekends are the fastest way to level in the game atm.  I went from 77 to 80 in...4 hours of AV this weekend?

[Paelos]

So it's the first one, you just wuvvums your main that much. The other guy I know, he hates doing quests. I don't really know why (or how) he stuck with WoW to get ONE character to cap, frankly, but there you have it!

Ditching a class in the teens seems a bit early to me, but if you really love warrior tanking SO MUCH you can't even imagine playing something else, I guess it isn't. 

IMO, since I've been playing from release, it's the only kind of tank we should have. 

[Selby]

Wow.  I just like alts I guess.  I have 7 80's, a 74, and a 70.  I quest like crazy though, I've got multiple Loremasters.  The only class I don't have is a hunter, and that's mostly because every one I run into is a complete drooling retard and I want to avoid the corrupting stench on my own account.

Battleground wins on BG weekends are the fastest way to level in the game atm.  I went from 77 to 80 in...4 hours of AV this weekend?

You must be alliance.  Our AV win rate as Horde is absolutely abyssal on my server\battlegroup.

[Sjofn]

So it's the first one, you just wuvvums your main that much. The other guy I know, he hates doing quests. I don't really know why (or how) he stuck with WoW to get ONE character to cap, frankly, but there you have it!

Ditching a class in the teens seems a bit early to me, but if you really love warrior tanking SO MUCH you can't even imagine playing something else, I guess it isn't. 

IMO, since I've been playing from release, it's the only kind of tank we should have. 

I've been playing since release too, and I dispute that nonsense!

I like alts too, Selby, although I only have ... 5 80's? DK, warrior, paladin, druid, hunter? Sure. A couple others that are 70+, but I find myself less motivated to level alts since the dual speccing thing has come in. Yes. Five eighties is "less motivated." 

[Rendakor]

I'm in the ton of alts category too: I've got DK, Rogue, Mage, Druid, Warrior, and Shaman at 80, Warlock and Pally both in the 70s. A couple of those were powerleveled 1-60 in instances though. Looking forward to Gobbo hunter (and maybe Shaman since I transferred mine to my girlfriend's account) in Cata.

[Draegan]

I suspect the "I don't level alts" crowd is down to like. Four people at this point.

I am curious, though. Why don't you have any alts at all? Do you love whatever you've been playing just that much? And when you say you don't level alts, does that mean you've not ever gotten past X level with an alt, or do you seriously have nothing but your main (and maybe some bank alts) or what? I ask because I only know one other person who honestly doesn't have any alts at all and I find it sort of fascinating.

I don't level alts.  However when I quit the game and come back I sometimes make a new toon.  But I never play multiple characters at the same time in any meaningful way. 

[Paelos]

IMO, since I've been playing from release, it's the only kind of tank we should have.  

I've been playing since release too, and I dispute that nonsense!

Do you now? I think, given a free and open choice, every tank would be a warrior. If there weren't already 3-4 other people in the guild/alliance/way.

[Rendakor]

lolwut? I've played DK, Warrior and Druid tanks at 80, and pally to the mid 70s, and in all honesty Warrior felt like the worst to play. Their AOE threat generation is both poor and annoying (tab devastate tab devastate) when compared with any of the other 3. DKs have superior cooldowns, while Pallies and Druids both bring more utility to the raid.

[caladein]

Warrior is a definite second on my list of preferred classes to tank with.  It has a few more toys than a Paladin but I really can't dial into the rotation.

A Paladin's rotation is really just a DPS-style cycle (which some might dislike) and a lot of the tanking debuffs (-Attack Speed, -Attack Power) are put up passively with Judgements instead of having to look at timers for Thunderclap and Demo Shout.

I'll admit that makes it a lot easier to do the basic task of "Sit there and get hit in the face" but I kind of enjoy that.  When I was playing my Warrior I felt like I had to be on top of every proc and timer or everything was going to go terribly wrong.

[Selby]

When I was playing my Warrior I felt like I had to be on top of every proc and timer or everything was going to go terribly wrong.

Same here.  I switched my warrior to Fury today purely because I got tired of PUGs shitting on me every time something went wrong (usually due to them pulling the next patrol and expecting me with all my abilities on cooldown to pick them up) making running heroics a stressful and un-fun experience.  So I switched to DPS and basically get to sit back and give the middle finger to the rest of the group if I choose.  My DK doesn't have these issues when she tanks and it's so much simpler (still have to be on top of things to manage AoE and whatnot).

[Sjofn]

IMO, since I've been playing from release, it's the only kind of tank we should have.  

I've been playing since release too, and I dispute that nonsense!

Do you now? I think, given a free and open choice, every tank would be a warrior. If there weren't already 3-4 other people in the guild/alliance/way.

As much as I heart my dwarf warrior, it isn't really my favorite class to tank with, although it might be partly because I'm so out of practice at this point. I have to disagree with DKs being "so much" simpler than warriors, though. Maybe I just suck. 

Druids, though. Druids are so awesomely easy to tank with. They're my "taking a break from thinking at all" tank.

[SurfD]

IMO, since I've been playing from release, it's the only kind of tank we should have.  

I've been playing since release too, and I dispute that nonsense!

Do you now? I think, given a free and open choice, every tank would be a warrior. If there weren't already 3-4 other people in the guild/alliance/way.

As much as I heart my dwarf warrior, it isn't really my favorite class to tank with, although it might be partly because I'm so out of practice at this point. I have to disagree with DKs being "so much" simpler than warriors, though. Maybe I just suck. 

Druids, though. Druids are so awesomely easy to tank with. They're my "taking a break from thinking at all" tank.

Yep.  I have been leveling a DK tank, and after playing a Druid tank as main through the last 4 tiers of raid content, DK sometimes leaves me confused.  Druids are stupidly easy to tank with.  As long as i have enough rage to hit swipe, aoe tanking is a breeze.  With the DK, I often find myself out of runes when i desperately need one, or half way through a tank "rotation" when something random happens and throws my rhythim completely off.   Druid?  I can practically roll my face across the keyboard, and as long as i have rage, nothing is going to stop me.

[Lantyssa]

As a blood tank, I find it's fairly easy with a DK.  (My own personal stress, freak-out, OMG We're All Going to Die issues aside.)

Death and Decay of course, then I'm glyphed to spread and refresh disease on everything which makes keeping disease up easy.  Heart Strike lets me spread the love and hits hard enough that your primary target isn't going anywhere unless you're majorly outgeared.  Maybe it would change in a raid environment, but all the level 80 heroics are small groups.  If you do lose mobs to groupies who can't assist, you've got two taunts, one of which brings the offender to you, and the knowledge that if DPS can't assist, they deserve to get smacked.

[Paelos]

YMMV, but the rest aren't really tanks to me. They are certainly easier to play as tanks, but their "Hey I just farted, look at me!" or "Grrr swipe swipe swipe swipe" talents make them too simple for my tastes. I like the action of the warrior tank, and the skills it takes to play it well in all situations.

[Shrike]

I prefer playing a protection warrior...when it's just me. In groups, not so much. They're a class that needs to be micro-managed. In PuGs this is a recipe for a headache.

I prefer my paladin when running heroics. The basic attack cycle is essentially a faceroll and that allows me more situational awareness (situation being keeping an eye on any weirdness from the dps).

DK is somewhere in between, but preferred (mostly) for PvP. They do have a lot of flexibility, but that's playing as blood. As frost...there you have the rune cooldown issues, though I love the animation of draenei DW frost DK tanks. Haven't tanked as unholy in about a year and don't plan to start. Blood is just easier to manage overall (although, after the righteous asswhuppin' my prot pally laid on a blood dk the other night in AV, I'm thinking unholy might get me back in that venue...maybe).

[Merusk]

My prefs are Pally, DK, Warrior.  Never leveled a druid, so I can't comment on their tanking.  I'd bet they'd come in before the Warrior, though.

The class has some nice tools so that I enjoy dinking around with it from time to time.  I can't help thinking when you have to be a macro master or have a UI that looks like a 737 to tank better than "so so" there's a problem.   The Ego of warrior tanks doesn't help, either.

My time with the class and the understanding of how much time it takes to play it very well also explains why the folks I know who have no alts are all warriors.  They always make comments along the lines of; "If you focus on more than one class, you're just going to be terrible at all of them."  Well, if they were all as time and micromanagement intensive as Warriors they'd have a point.   However, the classes aren't and so they don't.  Enjoy that pigeonholing, boyos.