Cataclysm

[Sheepherder]

If people were running around digging up actual Dwarven ruins, i can see this being a problem, but saying we are rooting around in ruins created by his ancestors is a bit of stretch.  That's about like saying that the descendants of servants for royalty should have ancestral claim over the royal castle after the Family line of the king / queen has died out.

That being said, it's also stretching a bit to call the dwarven dig sites in Mulgore burial grounds.

Go ahead, check Wowhead.  Quests -> filter with name "burial" (extended search).  I'll wait.

[Soulflame]

He's been sitting on that throne ever since, waiting for who knows what.  Until we show up, then he uses us to lure Thorim out for a confrontation, captures Thorim, and drags him into Ulduar to guard against those pesky mortals that won't leave well enough alone.

So should I be submitting a bug report to Blizzard that the dwarf-only Thorim quest is broken?  Because it seems other races than dwarves are rooting around Ulduar.  Really, you have to hand it to Brann though, he isn't throwing a shitfit that people are rooting around in the ruins created by his ancestors.

What part of "And then we have to go in and clean up his mess" did you miss?

It looks like all of it.

Nice job.

[Soulflame]

So if we're going to call Azshara blameless for attempting to summon Sargeras, I'm sure you'll give the orcs a pass as well, right?  Right?  After all, Nehr'zul just thought he was talking with his dead wife, and didn't realize anything was wrong until the spirits stopped talking with him.  By then it was too late.

[Sheepherder]

What part of "And then we have to go in and clean up his mess" did you miss?

It looks like all of it.

Nice job.

Okay, granted Loken and Yogg-Saron are obviously the victims of unprovoked aggression here.  You know, aside from all the wife murdering, madness inducing, plant and animal corrupting, and preparations for war which first appear in level 71 quests.

But go ahead, tell me how exactly it is that Bran is more responsible than the player character for Loken capturing Torim.  You know, while he's sitting across a massive chasm, hasn't actually been near either NPC, and doesn't actually play into either's respective story arcs except as a casual name-dropping; unlike the player character.  I'll wait.

I know, how about you dig a little deeper.

[Koyasha]

So if we're going to call Azshara blameless for attempting to summon Sargeras, I'm sure you'll give the orcs a pass as well, right?  Right?  After all, Nehr'zul just thought he was talking with his dead wife, and didn't realize anything was wrong until the spirits stopped talking with him.  By then it was too late.

Ner'zhul does pretty much get a pass in my opinion.  He reneged on his deal with Kil'jaeden, when he realized the bad shit going down, forcing Kil'jaeden to turn to Gul'dan...who does not get a pass, because by that point they knew exactly what they were getting into.

At least, I think.  I haven't read the relevant novel, so perhaps I'm wrong on some detail of this point?  Either way, it's still a little different - in this case they clearly had not been messed with to such a point where they unable to resist - indeed, they were able to resist quite successfuly, when they decided to.  It's not the same as being shoved into Sargeras' face and from that point on never giving a hint of a second thought.

[Sheepherder]

Individual's actions aren't exactly something you can pin to a race, either.  Though apparently that's what all the cool kids do these days.

In other news, my shaman is 65, and apparently Garrosh is a whiny emo bitch.

[Fordel]

Garrosh is hilariously Emo in TBC, which makes WotLK Garrosh even more 

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'd have been happy with a crazy new warchief, hell he could be the biggest fascist on azeroth. Or maybe a giant hippy or hell...anything but garrosh    It's hard to have a leader you feel like you could beat up.

On that note, paladin in my guild solo'd king roidrage last weekend.

[WindupAtheist]

I don't really care about Ner'zhul or even Gul'dan. I'm more amused by the overwhelming majority of the orcish species that just blithely went along with the whole thing. Especially since the one clan with enough sense to go "Hey this is bullshit!" tried to warn everyone else and even managed to escape.

I mean Arthas may be as bad as anyone, but at least 95% of the human race didn't join the Cult of the Damned.

[LK]

Garrosh is hilariously Emo in TBC, which makes WotLK Garrosh even more 

Yeah, he went from being this sad little shitface who should be fucking grateful Thrall every came along to pull him out of his stupor into a fucking "HEY NICE PLANET YOU GOT HERE LET'S TAKE IT OVER COMPLETELY."

[Shrike]

Think maybe Garrosh has a little flask a pit lord blood he's been nipping at on the sly?

[Lantyssa]

I think Warcraft lore consists of many individual stories meant to provoke War.  Free will is an illusion, because the Love & Peace types would make the setting boring.  Nearly everyone is an ass and at fault.

[LK]

No, the excuse is that he is a Hellscream so it's genetic.

[Ingmar]

So if we're going to call Azshara blameless for attempting to summon Sargeras, I'm sure you'll give the orcs a pass as well, right?  Right?  After all, Nehr'zul just thought he was talking with his dead wife, and didn't realize anything was wrong until the spirits stopped talking with him.  By then it was too late.

Ner'zhul does pretty much get a pass in my opinion.  He reneged on his deal with Kil'jaeden, when he realized the bad shit going down, forcing Kil'jaeden to turn to Gul'dan...who does not get a pass, because by that point they knew exactly what they were getting into.

At least, I think.  I haven't read the relevant novel, so perhaps I'm wrong on some detail of this point?  Either way, it's still a little different - in this case they clearly had not been messed with to such a point where they unable to resist - indeed, they were able to resist quite successfuly, when they decided to.  It's not the same as being shoved into Sargeras' face and from that point on never giving a hint of a second thought.

Should be pointed out that in the Warcraft 3 campaign Grom pretty much tells Thrall flat out that they all went along with the whole demon blood thing willingly.

[LK]

Should be pointed out that in the Warcraft 3 campaign Grom pretty much tells Thrall flat out that they all went along with the whole demon blood thing willingly.

Consistency isn't exactly one of the lore's strong suits. Whatever sounds coolest in that immediate moment regardless of pre-existing developments (Draenei, lol) sums it up completely.

[gamerjock]

I really haven't been keeping up with WOW much lately.  Any chance that these new races will be a "third faction" or neutral faction?  That would beat War to the punch there again. 

Woah Woah Woah...are you saying there is rumor WAR is going to add a third faction like they fucking should have to start with?  3 factions are a MUST for any true pvp game. 

I need a link to read about this. 

[Rasix]

 

[Musashi]

Wat?

[Megrim]

 

[Nevermore]

 

[Simond]

C-c-c-combo breaker!

So should I be submitting a bug report to Blizzard that the dwarf-only Thorim quest is broken?  Because it seems other races than dwarves are rooting around Ulduar.  Really, you have to hand it to Brann though, he isn't throwing a shitfit that people are rooting around in the ruins created by his ancestors.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but it's not like Brann can really claim any ancestral ownership over any of the Titan Vaults, is it?  Dwarves are directly descendant from animated rock, that was corrupted by the curse of flesh.  Pretty much EVERY Titan related structure ever created that had to do with the Earthen was already fully functional LONG before they mutated into current Dwarves.   And heck, their job was pretty much to maintain the place an help out with the work.  They were essentially menial labour, specificly designed to fit into the small spaces the big guys couldn't reach. 

If people were running around digging up actual Dwarven ruins, i can see this being a problem, but saying we are rooting around in ruins created by his ancestors is a bit of stretch.  That's about like saying that the descendants of servants for royalty should have ancestral claim over the royal castle after the Family line of the king / queen has died out.

There's also the minor detail that there's four other races with at least equal claim to the whole "Decended from Titan creations" thing now (and arguably two more, in a rather more vague and indirect manner) so the whole dwarven "Let's go poke around Titan ruins and wake up Things We We Not Meant To Know" excuse got thrown out the window.

[SurfD]

Speaking of the whole Created by the Titans / Byproduct of the Titans thing, was it ever officially stated WHERE the Humans came from?

Tauren are natives.
Trolls, All Elvish variants, Harpies, Satyr, Naga and a few others all share a "common" ancestory WAYYY back in the beginning.
Dwarves and Gnomes are appearently mutant Titan Constructs.
But where did the Humans come from?

[Sjofn]

Humans are the tiny, sickly, shitty offspring of the Vrykul.

[Merusk]

Yeah there's a whole Alliance quest line in Howling Fjord that explains that, but I don't think there's a Horde analogue.

[pxib]

Trolls, All Elvish variants, Harpies, Satyr, Naga and a few others all share a "common" ancestory WAYYY back in the beginning.

There was a guild of Troll supremacists on my roleplaying server several years back who insisted that the original elves were just mutant trolls, twisted by bad mojo. When presented with lore to the contrary they'd ramble about how elves exploited their newfangled written language to devalue the oral tradition: "Nighty's way to keep de brother down."

Good times.

[Fordel]

Yeah there's a whole Alliance quest line in Howling Fjord that explains that, but I don't think there's a Horde analogue.

It also failed to explain the Vrykul though. The Earthern were diggers, The Robognomes were machinists, the Vrykul were... large?


It's like when people say "Life originated from a comet!", so where did the comet get it?!

[pxib]

A WIZARD DID IT

[raydeen]

"Nighty's way to keep de brother down."

That was good. 

[Lakov_Sanite]

"Nighty's way to keep de brother down."

That was good. 

Lol lore, alliance/horde bias aside...it makes more sense for night elves to be trolls that drank from the well of eternity and got evolved/corrupted than the other way around.

[Shrike]

If I recall correctly, they diverged from a common ancestor. Night elves were supposedly a nomadic race that settled on the fringes of the Well of Etenity and got all elvish. Trolls...just got weird, as opposed to falling under an arcane influence.

And speaking of arcane stuff, anyone notice the Highborne have blown back into town? They seem pretty insistant that there's Plenty Work Afoot.

[Simond]

Humans are the tiny, sickly, shitty offspring of the Vrykul.

And the Forsaken are undead humans, which makes them thrice-cursed Titan creations. 

If I recall correctly, they diverged from a common ancestor. Night elves were supposedly a nomadic race that settled on the fringes of the Well of Etenity and got all elvish. Trolls...just got weird, as opposed to falling under an arcane influence.

It's not quite all spelt out, but night elves are pretty much a bunch of trolls* (the 'mysterious nomadic race') who wandered near the Well and were fel-corrupted 'evolved' into NEs, and then satyrs/harpies/dryads/naga/high, er, blood elves are all corrupted 'evolved' NEs.

Yeah, dryads are just as dodgy as satyr. Listening to extra-planar beings, growing hooves, the males growing horns? Just because its 'nature' magic rather than fel makes it alright, apparently. Just ignore that Ashenvale has purple trees and weird glows everywhere while most actually natural forests are green. It's all good. Just listen to the night elves - when have they ever been wrong?

 

And speaking of arcane stuff, anyone notice the Highborne have blown back into town? They seem pretty insistant that there's Plenty Work Afoot.

They're why there are going to be NE mages in Cataclysm...although try not to think about Highborne fighting against the BEs too hard.


*Trolls had world-spanning empires and were fighting Old Gods back when three-fifths of Alliance races were still automata. One could argue that they were the race Azeroth was actually built for, and everyone else is an invader. Of course, one could also argue that the whole set-up was to ultimately result in the creation of the blood elf race and so they are the apex of all creation. It all depends on your point of view.... 

[Oban]

Well, female Blood Elves do look the best.

[Jayce]

Yeah, dryads are just as dodgy as satyr. Listening to extra-planar beings, growing hooves, the males growing horns? Just because its 'nature' magic rather than fel makes it alright, apparently.

I don't think it was magic, except in the sense of "that magic evening" between Cenarius and some (many?) female night elf friends.  10,000 years is a long time to just hang around in the forests, amirite?

[Mattemeo]

It'd be nice if they did something to make Highborn Night Elves look visually distinct from the other Night Elves, or at least gave you the option.
Kind of like how you get a load more options when you pick Death Knight - different fleshtones, faces, hair colours. I doubt they've really considered that, but hey, I can dream, right? I'm most worried about male Night Elves horrible, horrible casting animation. You can just about bear it (no pun intended) as a lowbie Druid when your only option is spamming Wrath, but it's going to be seriously bad as a Mage.

[Kail]

And speaking of arcane stuff, anyone notice the Highborne have blown back into town? They seem pretty insistant that there's Plenty Work Afoot.

Buh the buh?  I thought Highborn Night Elves took the boat across the sea and eventually just started calling themselves "High Elves...."?

Yeah, dryads are just as dodgy as satyr. Listening to extra-planar beings, growing hooves, the males growing horns? Just because its 'nature' magic rather than fel makes it alright, apparently.

I was under the impression that Dryads were the actual daughters of Cenarius (in some mystical demigod way which hopefully does not involve humping a doe) while Satyrs were some mutated form of Night Elf (like the relationship Fel Orcs have to Orcs).