Cataclysm

[WindupAtheist]

You think the minor details of it being a) ruins and b) underwater will stop the Forsaken from claiming it? 

I suppose they'll take what they can get, what with their orcish masters having pushed them to the back of the bus. 

[raydeen]

You think the minor details of it being a) ruins and b) underwater will stop the Forsaken from claiming it? 

I suppose they'll take what they can get, what with their orcish masters having pushed them to the back of the bus. 

Hopefully it means that every 80 Alliance jack-tard won't be attacking Tarren Mill every 2 minutes. And we don't mind underwater ruins. We can hold our breath longer than you can. ;)

[Delmania]

More lore lolz.

Apparently Warchief Garrosh decides that all Horde races besides orcs and tauren are fags, and kicks them out of the better parts of Orgrimmar. Since that would mean Vol'jin has to leave, and the gnomes are supposedly going to get Gnomeregan back, it seems like there's a chance the trolls will get their own city. Also, Southshore doesn't get conquered, it just sorta falls into the sea with the cataclysm.

Yeah, apparently being exalted with the various Horde cities and the Horde forces doesn't mean you can defend Org...

At the very least, Blizzard is distancing themselves from the happy "let's work together" lovefest of TBC and actully injecting some of the basic war back into Warcraft. Now if they coul donly make world PvP worth a damn....

[Delmania]

That reminds me, have they said anything about Arthas's role, if any, in Cataclysm?  I assume we don't defeat him, and given that he's big into weakenign by division and calamity, it wouldn't surprise me if he's somehow behind all this after his "defeat".

[Teugeus]

I think Blizzard have made it fairly clear that we kill Arthas, but unless we utterly destroy Frostmourne and/or incinerate Icecrown from orbit, the essence of the Lich King will linger somewhere for Blizzard to re-use ad nauseum.

[WindupAtheist]

Hopefully it means that every 80 Alliance jack-tard won't be attacking Tarren Mill every 2 minutes. And we don't mind underwater ruins. We can hold our breath longer than you can. ;)

Well you are gonna have a rebuilt Stromgarde right on the other side of a zone line, so don't go AFK with your flag up too quick. 

But the real fun is going to be if the trolls do get a capital in STV, just a momentary epic mount flight away from Stormwind itself. Darkshire will probably be interesting for a while.

[Lakov_Sanite]

We really should nuke icecrown from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

[WindupAtheist]

Fuckin' A!

[Rendakor]

Talk to the gnomes, I hear they're good at that sort of thing.

[Simond]

Only by accident. If you mean for things to explode, then you need a goblin.

[Merusk]

Yeah, gnomes fail so hard at explosions they couldn't even wipe themselves out when they irradiated their entire city.

[WindupAtheist]

Hey, you know what I wonder? I wonder why the mean racist Alliance couldn't see that the Wrathgate was just an isolated accident caused by a rogue faction, and that everyone should just go right back to trusting one another. Oh wait...

Undercity stripped of guards and placed under orcish occupation in 3.3

By Thrall no less. Back of the bus.

[Simond]

Are you still on about that? You should be preparing to evacuate from, well, everywhere instead. 

[Delmania]

Hey, you know what I wonder? I wonder why the mean racist Alliance couldn't see that the Wrathgate was just an isolated accident caused by a rogue faction, and that everyone should just go right back to trusting one another. Oh wait...

Undercity stripped of guards and placed under orcish occupation in 3.3

By Thrall no less. Back of the bus.

Bah, the Forsaken can survive without the Horde.  Much like our Scourge brothers, our numbers only grow in force the more the pathetic Alliance fights.

[Fordel]

No they don't.


The Forsaken is the only faction with a finite population, hence their constant sense of urgency and utter contempt for their own existence. The only thing they have to look forward too is rotting away in their sewer.

[Delmania]

No they don't.


The Forsaken is the only faction with a finite population, hence their constant sense of urgency and utter contempt for their own existence. The only thing they have to look forward too is rotting away in their sewer.

Finite population?  We can't exactly be killed, and new members join from the ranks of fallen soldiers who manage to escape the Lich King's grasp.  Consdering that, since launch, the Horde's support has been tenuous at best, considering we're on separate continents, I am positive that should the Horde cut ties with us, we'd survive, and also if they attacked us, we'd wouldn't hesitate to use the plague and turn their warriors back on them.

The sense of urgency is to figure out a way to stop the Scourge, because the Forsaken are high on the list of the Lich King.  Re-enslaving us would a goal of his.

[Delmania]

Another thought is that if the Horde were to sever ties with the Forsaken the Blood Elves would probably join since Sylvanas has been a staunch advocate for them.

[WindupAtheist]

Are you still on about that? You should be preparing to evacuate from, well, everywhere instead.

As far as I can tell, Southshore goes into the drink while Stromgarde gets rebuilt, your orcish masters trade some tauren land for some night elf land, and the only thing that happens beyond that is the Horde running around comically planting flags in places no one inhabits or cares about. Quick, evacuate the massive Alliance cities in... uh... Azshara? Plaguelands? I guess those four or five guys in the Stranglethorn rebel camp might have to move if my hunch about a troll city going there turns out to be true.

But hey, maybe I'm misinformed and soon everyone will be living under the military bootheels of orcs who hate them. In which case I can only ask the Forsaken... what's it like?  

[Ingmar]

No they don't.


The Forsaken is the only faction with a finite population, hence their constant sense of urgency and utter contempt for their own existence. The only thing they have to look forward too is rotting away in their sewer.

Finite population?  We can't exactly be killed, and new members join from the ranks of fallen soldiers who manage to escape the Lich King's grasp.  Consdering that, since launch, the Horde's support has been tenuous at best, considering we're on separate continents, I am positive that should the Horde cut ties with us, we'd survive, and also if they attacked us, we'd wouldn't hesitate to use the plague and turn their warriors back on them.

The sense of urgency is to figure out a way to stop the Scourge, because the Forsaken are high on the list of the Lich King.  Re-enslaving us would a goal of his.

They're not making new Forsaken. When Arthas goes down they really won't be making any more Scourge either. In any kind of long term scenario the Forsaken are screwed relative every other power group in the entire world; that's the whole reason for the fatalism.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I always imagined that once arthas was dead the forasaken would just be blighting people indiscriminately and creating more undead.  Without the lich king to control them they could raise thousand of mindless or near mindless corpses. In essence the forsaken would just become a more democratic version of the scourge.

[Delmania]

I always imagined that once arthas was dead the forasaken would just be blighting people indiscriminately and creating more undead.  Without the lich king to control them they could raise thousand of mindless or near mindless corpses. In essence the forsaken would just become a more democratic version of the scourge.

The Lich King doesn't control the Forsaken unless I am misunderstanding your post.

[Delmania]

I always imagined that once arthas was dead the forasaken would just be blighting people indiscriminately and creating more undead.  Without the lich king to control them they could raise thousand of mindless or near mindless corpses. In essence the forsaken would just become a more democratic version of the scourge.

You assume that Arthas is defeated and that the Cult of the Damned will simply vanish once he's gone.  2 big assumptions.

[Ingmar]

I always imagined that once arthas was dead the forasaken would just be blighting people indiscriminately and creating more undead.  Without the lich king to control them they could raise thousand of mindless or near mindless corpses. In essence the forsaken would just become a more democratic version of the scourge.

The Lich King doesn't control the Forsaken unless I am misunderstanding your post.

You are misunderstanding it. Point being if they made mindless undead now in theory the Lich King would just take them. I'm not sure that theory holds water given the abominations all over the place (for now) in Forsaken areas.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'm not saying undead automatically become the lich kings thralls but even the forsaken risk falling under his control right now.  If the forsaken were to even begin to build any sort of massive force than the lich king would more than likely end up converting half of them or more.  The only reason he doesn't control the forsaken outright is because they're under the protection of the horde.  When the lich king dies however, the forsaken will be able to create will nilly as much undead as they like whether sentient or not with no consequences(don't think mindless ghouls would attack forsaken without arthas tugging strings)

The only reason the forsaken are part of the horde is because of arthas, without him as a threat they really don't need the other races at all and by all accounts would simply become the scourge again. Of course this all rests on sylvy's morality as she may not actually 'want' that but most forsaken are very much "death to the living" Putress wasn't an outlier, he was just easily wooed by varimathras and thus fell more under the legions control but his sentiments are echoed by many forsaken npc's and pc's as well. 

Cataclysm would be the perfect time to add a third more evil faction with the forsaken at the head, even though this won't happen.  What the real question is though, is what becomes of the essence of the lich king. Will it be utterly destroyed or will frostmourne just exchange hands? Will the new owner be able to not have its sould eaten by the blade and master it? 

In my opinion the lich king arthas is going to be destroyed, the armies of icecrown nearly all wiped out and the sword more than likely will be buried or lost but not truly gone.  Plot wise its too tempting for blizzard not to leave the threat of another lich king rising but this will be many years or centuries away from the current timeline.

[Delmania]

The only reason he doesn't control the forsaken outright is because they're under the protection of the horde

That has nothing to do with it.  Arthas doesn't give  a rat's ass about his minions.  If he could have enslaved the Forsaken once he put the armor on, he would have done so.   Illdian's actions weakened him, and it's just now that's he's regaining his power.  I suspect that if he were to ever achieve his full power, enslaving the Forsaken would be a trivial manner.

Many people seem to forget that while Arthas is ultimately in control of the Scourge, there is the whole Cult of the Damned that forms with Kel'Thuzard and share in Arthas's vision.  Included in those ranks are powerful necromancers and liches that are capable of controlling the various undead armies created by Arthas.  So, to simply say the Scourge will be gone once Arthas is defeated is a little premature.  However, all of this does rest on the fact that we do somehow stop  Arthas.

As for Sylvanas, unlike the rest of her people, she doesn't seem to have the "Death to the living" attitude, and she does display loyalty to Thrall.  Which is good, because it's only the blind devotion to her that keep most of the Forsaken in check.  So, I don't think she's going to go evil, but given that the Horde, as a whole, really doesn't like the Forsaken, this may cause some hard times.

[LK]

I honestly wonder if the end game for the Forsaken is planned out or if they are just making shit up as they go along. The only reason the Forsaken are still part of the Horde is for game reasons. Everyone would be better off if they were gone.

[Fordel]

They just make shit up as the gameplay requires.

[Sjofn]

As for Sylvanas, unlike the rest of her people, she doesn't seem to have the "Death to the living" attitude, and she does display loyalty to Thrall.  Which is good, because it's only the blind devotion to her that keep most of the Forsaken in check.  So, I don't think she's going to go evil, but given that the Horde, as a whole, really doesn't like the Forsaken, this may cause some hard times.

She may be softening up lately, but she definitely had the Death to the Living attitude. She is/was all over making a new plague.

[Nonentity]

All of this discussion is irrelevant, as I will be a troll girl running around as a bear.

Troll Druids: Best Thing Ever™ 

[LK]

They just make shit up as the gameplay requires.

Yep.

[Malakili]

Druids: Best Thing Ever™ 

Edited for the sake of efficiency.

[Sjofn]

Druids are pretty fuckin' awesome, it's true. I'm pretty sure my first-to-85 in Cataclysm will be my druid. The only thing is I feel weird having a dude as my "main." I don't really know why. But Jassan is a dude, dammit, I can't go changing him to a girl. His pornstache is famous.

[Delmania]

As for Sylvanas, unlike the rest of her people, she doesn't seem to have the "Death to the living" attitude, and she does display loyalty to Thrall.  Which is good, because it's only the blind devotion to her that keep most of the Forsaken in check.  So, I don't think she's going to go evil, but given that the Horde, as a whole, really doesn't like the Forsaken, this may cause some hard times.

She may be softening up lately, but she definitely had the Death to the Living attitude. She is/was all over making a new plague.

I know what the manual states, but I doubt Sylvanas was intricately involved in the development of the plague.  Otherwise, neither Putress nor Varithiamas would have been to get as far a they did.  I assume she trusted him enough, ans was content to rely on reports and presentations.  She is very busy running the day to day affairs of the Undercity.  However, Sylvanas has never been about "death to the living."  She's no angel, she did kill Garithos and force Varithimas to kill his brother, but she was more about survival than slaughter.  She was nobility in her life, and that streak carried over into her undeath.

[Ingmar]

Getting the executive summary, approving of it, and budgeting to keep spending on it are just as bad as being intimately involved in the design.

[Sheepherder]

I... cannot... resist...

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