The LotR Trilogy

[WayAbvPar]

The Balrog looked almost exactly the way I pictured it in my mind's eye. That whole sequence is among the very best in the movie trilogy imo.

[Trippy]

Anyone else have to double check the dates to make sure this was not some sorta zombified thread? Where the fuck did this topic skip up from given the fact the movies have been out awhile now? 

It started here in the SW thread:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=17228.msg666120#msg666120

then died down until VainEldritch quoted WUA's post from a month ago.

[UnSub]

TBH I think PJ is a bit of a hack, if a very successful one.

I don't think Jackson would disagree with being a hack given his amateur splatterfilm background, but don't sell the man short. He enjoyed the narrative, thought it would make a good film and worked hard - very hard - to get the project off the ground. When it looked like the film financiers would force the entire trilogy into one movie, he went around Hollywood until he got New Line Cinemas to support doing three movies. He filmed three movies back-to-back across a huge number of areas with a lot of pre-planning and logistics. It wasn't a situation where he wanted to make "a profitable and fairly generic fantasy movie" because he could have done that with anything, or accepted the one movie deal (which would have been easier). He wanted to make LOTR properly and IMO succeeded as best he could while also making it entertaining.

That he changed the story so that some characters weren't just cyphers is fine by me. Or included points from post-scripts earlier in the narrative so that they made sense.

[Samwise]

It wasn't a situation where he wanted to make "a profitable and fairly generic fantasy movie" because he could have done that with anything

In the making-of piece on the DVD (like I said, he must have done some things right for me to have gotten as far as watching the extras), he actually says that he set out with the intent of making a fantasy film because one hadn't been done in a while, and decided that if it wasn't at least as good as Lord of the Rings (in other words the lowest common denominator in his view) it probably wasn't even worth making, so the easiest thing would be to just do LotR.  He then proceeded to read the books at a gallop while scribbling down Cliff's Notes for himself to use in the script outline.

That's my recollection, anyway; it was some years ago I watched it so my memory may be exaggerating some parts.  He definitely didn't strike me as having any particular fondness for the source material.  Like I said, he did a serviceable enough job nonetheless, but I personally (and I am obviously in the wacko fringe minority on this) would still be very interested in seeing a film adaptation that tried to use more of what's unique about LotR and its setting.

[Quinton]

It was up and down for me.  Some scenes were fantastic depictions of parts of one of my favorite books.  Some scenes made me go "what the hell?"  Overall it worked reasonably well, but I do feel like they went off in the weeds at times.  I should give it a rewatch -- it's been too long and I actually don't remember which bits were great and which bits were painful.

[Slyfeind]

Considering Peter Jackson got his Balrog idea from Richard Garriott's Balrons, that makes this whole discussion mute.

[Ironwood]

Well played.

The 'mute' was a perfect touch.

[Brogarn]

Ahhh... nothing like a great thread to get your mind off the house buying process. Thank you f13! 

[Cyrrex]

Ahhh... nothing like a great thread to get your mind off the house buying process. Thank you f13! 

So how exactly would you describe the wings in your avatar?  Are they bat-like or just shadowy?

[Numtini]

Seriously? The balrog? Geez.

Apparently the judgement of history is the movies sucked as no profit was made. Or so New Line has told the Tolkien vultures family accountants.

[Brogarn]

So how exactly would you describe the wings in your avatar?  Are they bat-like or just shadowy?

I'd say they extend from his back like two wings the color of shadowed grass.

[K9]

I'd say they were allegorical

[Cyrrex]

So how exactly would you describe the wings in your avatar?  Are they bat-like or just shadowy?

I'd say they extend from his back like two wings the color of shadowed grass.

Oh, sorry...hope I didn't offend you.  I just assumed they were actual wings due to the fact that they so obviously appear to be.

[Yegolev]

You know what's like a wing?  A wing.  I do love some literary interpretation, despite not spending a lot of time on it outside poetry.  Novels are just so long.

Just to contribute to the mess, I read that balrog bit just a month or so ago and I imagined the balrog looking more like what VE imagined, but then I started thinking of Tyrael and how cool that was.  If it was up to me, I'd probably do something like what you might have seen in that Constantine movie: coal-black humanoid, surrounded by a smoke cloud with occasional glimpses of red glow.  The wings would have been formed out of the smoke cloud when it needed to make that leap.  Then again, I'm not trying to sell my ideas to get funding, and you can't make an action figure out of smoke.

I'm also glad Bombadil was cut.  I can hardly stand the bastard in LotRO, and he actually fits in better in a MMO with it's disjointed narratives.

Need to rewatch the movies.

[Brogarn]

I can hardly stand the bastard in LotRO, and he actually fits in better in a MMO with it's disjointed narratives.

Same here. It pisses me off that he comes skipping in at the end of 1.11 to save the day. Fruity bastard.

Oh, sorry...hope I didn't offend you.  I just assumed they were actual wings due to the fact that they so obviously appear to be.

It's okay. It's an easy mistake to make.

[Yegolev]

I can hardly stand the bastard in LotRO, and he actually fits in better in a MMO with it's disjointed narratives.

Same here. It pisses me off that he comes skipping in at the end of 1.11 to save the day. Fruity bastard.

Oh, see, now you did it.  In the book, it's somewhat believable that Tom might show up in the nick of time and save the hobbits from the barrow.  In the game, popping into the Great Barrow via the Sekrit Door To The Boss Room is very insulting.  Firstly, how about a little help in the fight, ya prick?!  He's not saving my fellowship from anything, we already beat the wight.  And secondly, WHAT ABOUT THE DAMN BACK DOOR YOU PRANCING FUCKER?!  Didn't care to mention that?  Asshole.

[Ingmar]

I can hardly stand the bastard in LotRO, and he actually fits in better in a MMO with it's disjointed narratives.

Same here. It pisses me off that he comes skipping in at the end of 1.11 to save the day. Fruity bastard.

Tom Bombadil is like my favorite thing in the entirety of LotRO that I've seen so far.

HEY NONNY NONNY

[Yegolev]

wut

[Rishathra]

I really dig the music in Tom Bombadil's house.  The guy himself, however, can fuck right off.

[Samwise]

I never played that far into the game, but that actually sounds like they more or less got him right.  He's basically a force of nature; he never struck me as particularly likable on a personal level.

[Yegolev]

Oh, they absolutely nailed his character, which is why I can't stand him.

[eldaec]

my Third Year work on....wait for it.... Tolkien vs Beowulf.

You handed in a dissertation on which would win in a fight? Awesome.

[Ironwood]

Yeah, but in fairness, it was the diagrams that nailed me the A.

Clearly, Beowulf, as an expression of the Male Perfection coupled with the Humility of the True Hero, could take that old fuck with the pipe.

[Sheepherder]

The liberties taken with the first movie/book were a mixed lot.  The wight and the hobbits finding the HUGE PLOT DEVICE shouldn't have been cut, but Bombadil himself should have been pruned down to a short segment of frolicking to the rescue in the woods like an omnipotent retard.  Arwen appearing to save Frodo was completely unnecessary, and he really shouldn't have cut (lone) Frodo attempting to defy the Witch King at the ford, because the Witch King being a sadistic asshole by fucking with Frodo's head and smacking his ass down with a spell before going to take him prisoner was pretty awesome.

[Slyfeind]

Frodo facing down the ring wraiths all by himself, knowing he was going to die, and still he faced them down and said "You shall have neither the Ring nor me!" I got goosebumps when I read that.

In the movie we got Aerosmith's daughter looking stupid with her ninja sword.

[Ironwood]

More an Arabian sword, surely.

[Ingmar]

Or a cavalry saber.

[Slyfeind]

Eh, same thing!

[Sheepherder]

Then Tour passed through, and coming to a high sward that looked out over the valley beyond, he beheld a vision of Gondolin amid the white snow.

Please note: in the story Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin Tuor does not in fact come to Gondolin, he just sees a vision of it.

[Sjofn]

It wasn't a situation where he wanted to make "a profitable and fairly generic fantasy movie" because he could have done that with anything

In the making-of piece on the DVD (like I said, he must have done some things right for me to have gotten as far as watching the extras), he actually says that he set out with the intent of making a fantasy film because one hadn't been done in a while, and decided that if it wasn't at least as good as Lord of the Rings (in other words the lowest common denominator in his view) it probably wasn't even worth making, so the easiest thing would be to just do LotR.  He then proceeded to read the books at a gallop while scribbling down Cliff's Notes for himself to use in the script outline.

That's my recollection, anyway; it was some years ago I watched it so my memory may be exaggerating some parts.  He definitely didn't strike me as having any particular fondness for the source material.  Like I said, he did a serviceable enough job nonetheless, but I personally (and I am obviously in the wacko fringe minority on this) would still be very interested in seeing a film adaptation that tried to use more of what's unique about LotR and its setting.

He may not have initially had much fondness for the source material (although I don't think "it should be at LEAST as good as the granddaddy of all fantasy" means "it is the lowest common denominator" in the way that phrase is usually used), I am not sure how you can watch the movies or listen to the commentaries without seeing how much love went into those suckers, Jackson included. Maybe it's because I worked in theatre for a while and could see aspects of that process in THEIR process with their design and deciding how to make parts movie-able, but it took my breath away at times to see just how sincerely everyone involved loved the shit out of LotR. Seriously, watching the technical and designer people talk about it made me slightly sniffly, because they were able to work on a project that I'm sure they all dreamed of (in an abstract sense, not LotR specifically) when they got into the business in the first place. That's rare, and I felt really happy for them.

[Yegolev]

I do not think the leader of the Nine was the Witch King.

[Murgos]

I do not think the leader of the Nine was the Witch King.

Yes, he was.

Edit: Personally, whenever I play a multi-person party CRPG I usually have a character named Glorfindel (he also commanded my first X-COM base to victory over the aliens with something retarded like 150 kills).  I am not sure if I should be annoyed that he was cut from the movie and replaced by Arwen or if I should be grateful not to have had my imagination molested.

[Yegolev]

Yes, he was.

Damn you again, Appendices!

I am not sure if I should be annoyed that he was cut from the movie and replaced by Arwen or if I should be grateful not to have had my imagination molested.

I'm pretty annoyed by it and support such a position, but then I'm not annoyed by seeing someone else's interpretation of a book I read.

[Brogarn]

As someone who only read a bit of the books because I just couldn't get into Tolkien's writing style, I have to say I thought Arwen looked pretty bad ass and the "If you want him, come and claim him" part still gets me going. "FUCK YA! COME GET SOME!"

/shrug

[Slyfeind]

Yes, and that would have been totally cool except Arwen was never meant to be the "gets me going" chick. That was Eowyn the valkyrie "I AM NO MAN! WHACK!" Arwen was a frail mincey-pincey elfish princess as a contrast to Eowyn. That delicate elven princess cliche? Yeah, Arwen started that. Daddy's girl. You read about Arwen, you go "Damn Tolkien was so sexist!" Then you read about Eowyn and go "Damn Tolkien wasn't sexist!" That was the thing. Jackson ruined the thing. My biggest gripe. Shield-surfing was downright canon compared to that schlock.