"Oh btw, FFXIV Online in 2010"

[01101010]

This is fucking bonkers. 

Release a game worth playing and you won't have to ask reviewers to wait.  Release a ground-breaking game and they'll be too busy playing to review. 

Yes but they specifically said they are not competing with WoW. 

[Rendakor]

There's a valid argument to be made against reviewing an MMO on day one. It isn't that the fun needs to be patched in, it's that MMO launch days are typically clusterfucks of server crashing, queues, etc. By the second or third day, these things are usually ironed out and then you can see if the game is awful or not. It's hard for Squeenix to make that case, however, because they technically already had their launch last week with the CE.

[Margalis]

If a game as it is released can't be reviewed, it is not worth my money.

By this logic WoW deserves a metacritic score of near zero no?

Also very few sites do re-reviews, they expect the single review score they assign to last the entire lifetime of the game. So in the case of WoW you get stuck in a server queue on day 1, give the game a zero for being literally unplayable, then 6 years later it's still the worst game ever made.

The traditional review model is just not suited for multiplayer-centric games let alone MMOs. I've read very few reviews, and few if any day 1 reviews, that reflected the real experience of playing the game in live conditions. At best they come off as speculative whereas the whole idea of a review is strongly definitive.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Wow as it was released was fun, the game itself was fun.  Could the same be said about FF14? We can argue server stability all day but even in perfect conditions FF falls short.

[Margalis]

For a lot of people WoW was literally unplayable on release. I'm not sure how waiting in a server queue is in any way fun.

I'm not trying to say that WoW is a bad game. I'm just saying that if you apply your test of must be fun immediately then WoW was a failure and deserved a poor review.

The reality, to me, is that assigning a review score to a multiplayer game the day of release is silly for a variety of reasons.

I don't see the point in a review that basically says "if you buy this right now it will suck, but it you buy it in 8 more hours it might be good." Which is what every day one WoW review should have read. Or really month one.

[Nightblade]

For a lot of people WoW was literally unplayable on release. I'm not sure how waiting in a server queue is in any way fun.

WoW was fun, FF14 is not. You can't draw a parallel between server stability and a game that's just plain terrible whether you can play it or not.

[Samprimary]

Having server/stability issues at launch is different than having straight up quality of content issues. For all its issues in the first days after launch, World of Warcraft was essentially a complete and competitive product at launch, that you could jump right into and which wouldn't bore you.

Also worth mentioning is that the industry has grown and become more saturated, and the MMO playerbase is much more fickle. They can always, always go back to what they were playing before if you don't offer a product that's as attention-holding.

Also very few sites do re-reviews, they expect the single review score they assign to last the entire lifetime of the game. So in the case of WoW you get stuck in a server queue on day 1, give the game a zero for being literally unplayable, then 6 years later it's still the worst game ever made.

The traditional review model is just not suited for multiplayer-centric games let alone MMOs. I've read very few reviews, and few if any day 1 reviews, that reflected the real experience of playing the game in live conditions. At best they come off as speculative whereas the whole idea of a review is strongly definitive.

The industry should band together and make it a media-wide policy to review MMO's two weeks post-launch or something. It would be an improvement. Still, at the same time, MMO's today have to hit the ground running. WoW could biff as much as it wanted in the first two weeks of launch, because, well, it hadn't changed the industry  yet.

[UnsGub]

For a lot of people WoW was literally unplayable on release. I'm not sure how waiting in a server queue is in any way fun.

Wow made a feature to tell you that you cannot play their game.

I stayed away for year before starting and after they added servers and fixes.

[Pendan]

Day 1 reviews of WoW were based on beta so it did not matter how well the servers ran on day 1. By the way, I waited to start on day 2 when more servers were opened and made horde character on West Coast and Alliance character on East Coast and switched between them when one was having problems. By doing this the game remained very playable for me.

FF14 has to ask reviews to wait because their beta product was not very good and their release product is not very good. To me they are saying our product is not even good enough yet for open beta but give us money now and review us next month when we are in open beta quality.

[Segoris]

Day 1 reviews of WoW were based on beta so it did not matter how well the servers ran on day 1. By the way, I waited to start on day 2 when more servers were opened and made horde character on West Coast and Alliance character on East Coast and switched between them when one was having problems. By doing this the game remained very playable for me.

Right, but now try telling someone in today's mmo market that in order to play when they want to, they need to create a character on multiple servers which are not in the same region for when a region/server is down and see how far that flies.

Really, I think that reviews for MMOs should be done with review copies before launch. I can't see a reason why reviews should have to wait when there are servers that reviewers could connect to between open betas and launches.

In the cast of FF14 vs wow, I think samprimary sums it up nicely.

[Paelos]

WoW was also pretty universally well received by critics as of day one launch. Also, most people at day one experienced much fewer problems than in previous launches of other titles. The biggest problem people ran into across the board was the looting bug where they would just get stuck bending over. Lag was a major issue in places at the peak hours. Some servers borked, most didn't, and the people transferred to the ones that were up. All the newbie areas were slammed, and people were killstealing everything. Lots of evade bugs on mobs. They had lots of downtime, but they were slammed with people, so they handed out free days like candy.

All in all though, it was pretty tame to things like WAR (client crashing, billing nightmares, servers exploding, taking 10m to get through a city due to lag). So, Let's not get all revisionist history here.

[Lantyssa]

Technical problems should be a footnote, but not ignored.  Some games don't fix those for months, so prospective buys have the right to be forewarned.  But what matters is, assuming you look past any technical hurdles, is the game fun?  It's fair to start checking for that Day 1.  There is no need for a reviewer to hold off on that.

[ghost]

So it looks like this is going to win the award for the worst major budget MMO of all time.

[Lakov_Sanite]

So it looks like this is going to win the award for the worst major budget MMO of all time.

is it major budget though?  By all accounts it sounds like this got made on the cheap in china

[ghost]

So it looks like this is going to win the award for the worst major budget MMO of all time.

is it major budget though?  By all accounts it sounds like this got made on the cheap in china

I don't know.  I thought it was.  How about major studio, or some such?

[Mrbloodworth]

14th title in the main line and second MMO attempt, not counting spin offs and side games. This isn't a new studio, its not a start up, its not even a new IP with new game systems never tested before. I expected more, any FF fan should expect DEMAND a better product than this, this is not the first dance. Its also the year 2010.

They spent how much on motion capture, they have one of the best stables of artists in the world, and the best game play is whacking random fozzles in a field? REALLY?

[Reg]

It's such a shame. All I wanted was an updated FFXI without the suck.

[Samprimary]

They spent how much on motion capture, they have one of the best stables of artists in the world, and the best game play is whacking random fozzles in a field? REALLY?

Not only that, but the foozle-whacking is insipidly boring. It's a couple of hairs above the epoch of autoattacking.

Perhaps it was an incredibly clever way to make crafting seem like an appealing option.

[Draegan]

I could of dealt with with the combat from FF13 in an MMO, however you would of done that.

[palmer_eldritch]

never mind

[tmp]

They spent how much on motion capture, they have one of the best stables of artists in the world, and the best game play is whacking random fozzles in a field? REALLY?

Not only that, but the foozle-whacking is insipidly boring. It's a couple of hairs above the epoch of autoattacking.

If it was just boring it wouldn't be that bad. But it's also technically inept -- playing archer you're bound to notice the animations are completely unsynced with actual abilities... you can attack 2-3 times and see a single attack animation play during that time if that, plus the animation plays ~2-3 secs after the damage is delivered (which happens instantly when the attack is triggered, if it actually triggers because sometimes it doesn't for unexplained and seemingly random reasons)

[Samprimary]

If it was just boring it wouldn't be that bad.

A game's in real bad shape when this can be said of it in any context :/

HI-HO CHINESE MARKET

[UnSub]

I'd suggest the grand idea of launching a single title across multiple regions without substantive game mechanic customisation has been probably nailed as a very bad plan.

... so I only expect another 2 - 3 MMOs to flop before this is accepted as true.

[Mrbloodworth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei0GxMOBztA

[CaptainNapkin]

Outtake lady bug battle at 13:10 is  
I may need this game just to be able to say "I experienced the suck!"

[UnSub]

I refuse to play a game where group wipes are possible to a non-mecha ladybug.

[Bzalthek]

Holy shit, it's.... so much worse than I expected.

[Reg]

And I don't think it's possible for them to fix it.  They've obviously learned absolutely nothing from their experience with FFXI and games made since then. Presumably the current dev team honestly think they're making a fun game. Perhaps it will still be some huge success in the Asian market but I really can't imagine why it would be.

[Lakov_Sanite]

That ladybug fight tells you ALL you need to know about FF14 

[Margalis]

I'd suggest the grand idea of launching a single title across multiple regions without substantive game mechanic customisation has been probably nailed as a very bad plan.

I'm curious, can you detail the significant gameplay changes to WOW in different regions?

[Reg]

God, that ladybug fight gave me unpleasant flashbacks to the Dunes in FFXI. Except there we were group killed by variously coloured crabs and rabbits.

[Rendakor]

WoW China uses an hourly subscription model instead of monthly, and contains some censored art and text.

[Margalis]

WoW China uses an hourly subscription model instead of monthly, and contains some censored art and text.

Those are "substantive game mechanic customisation?"

LOL?

[ghost]

WoW China uses an hourly subscription model instead of monthly, and contains some censored art and text.

Those are "substantive game mechanic customisation?"

LOL?

I'm not sure using WOW as a standard for any MMO mechanic/artwork/genre/whatever is a great idea.  Comparing WOW to any other MMO is like comparing McDonald's to your local family burger joint.  It may be better, it may be not, but it sure isn't making as much money.

[Shrike]

It's such a shame. All I wanted was an updated FFXI without the suck.

I was going to avoid this game altogether--even commenting on it. However, I have been keeping an eye on it and well...the fanbase this thing seems to be aimed at like the suck. Or at least they say they do.

On several sites, the fans keep saying, it's about the exploration. It's about the discovery of interaction with NPCs (in other words, no "!" above their heads apparently makes finding NPCs to talk to a voyage of discovery). Frankly, I remember riding that boat in EQ and I didn't like it then. I distinctly recall during the Velious era spending about 40 minutes talking at some gnolls to get a quest started. The hell of it was, I knew the fuckers had the quest, but just could not get them to cough it up. I was saved from complete boredom by getting trained by a monk whose group screwed the pooch at the nearby cougar camp--but I did return the favor with interest (Jboots + insta-invis + feign death = hilarity). Oh, and note the word "camp." Seems that's alive and well in whateverthehell FF14s world is called this time around.

I played this game in 1999. It was OK then. Not now. Sure, it's gorgeous (and needs a horse of a machine to run well), but it's a cockstab, pure and simple. Been there, done that, have the scars.