"Oh btw, FFXIV Online in 2010"

[Ollie]

No worries, my sense of humour has a proven track record of wonkyness. I just found the whole thing hilariously bad in a decidedly non-intentional way.

As it happens, sometimes I make my own fun. Other times I am the fun, and it's ok.

[Velorath]

Compared to FFXI, the combat looked quite a bit faster (graphically it looks pretty nice too).  Still not what I'd call speedy combat (not that FF games ever really have been), but doesn't look horrifically slow either.  If they've got any group based attacks like the renkei stuff from FFXI that requires a certain order and timing I could see why they maybe wouldn't want to speed the combat up to much.

I think the biggest problem with the combat video is that the enemy is a giant crab that for the most part just looks like it's sitting there while it's getting beaten up on.  Also, while the character may or may not be using special attacks or abilities (can't really tell) visually it just looks like the same attack over and over.

[Simond]

Clearly they should be attacking its weak point for massive damage, instead.

[Murgos]

The combat didn't look as bad as some here are making it out to be.  It didn't look like exciting either, just standard MMO combat.  Each fight only lasted two or three attacks and we saw what?  Five or six combats in 3 minutes or so?  It wasn't really that slow, just not, uh, interesting.

[Koyasha]

I've got to say that for the most part I prefer slower combat.  I've mentioned this before, but I feel like the pace of combat in WoW and other newer games is way too fast, whereas the pace of combat in FFXI and EQ where each mob might take 30 to 120 seconds to defeat was nice because I had time to think, make decisions, and generally mellow out while sitting around grinding for hours.  I never feel as though I can relax when playing a faster-paced game where each mob dies in 10 seconds.

Being able to go out, pull a mob, fight it for 40 or 50 seconds (without frantic buttonmashing combat), run out and pull the next one, have the pull take 15 or 20 seconds and arrive just as my group finishes off the previous mob is a great pace, for me.  I know a lot of people want something fast and furious, but that's just not my thing, so when I see an MMOG that's showing me slower combat, I'm actually happy about it.

[Numtini]

I generally prefer slower combat, but that was just extremely dull looking.

[Falconeer]

As I said, I am not bashing on FFXIV, I know I will play it and like it for the most part. And yes, I understand that for some people a slower combat is preferable. But "doesn't look horrifically slow either"? As a friendly challenge, I ask you to provide visual proof of any combat in any post 2004 MMORPG which is slower or duller than that. If anything, we'll get to chuckle about some other game. It's not even that it is slow, as Numtini put it it's terribly dull. Pay attention at 3:50. The player stands, without apparently doing anything other than eventually sustain a water special attack from the crab, for 13 seconds.

Look, I love turn based combat and I always liked the FF games because of that. Personally, I am not happy with the real time evolution of FFXII and FFXIII. But that's what that video looks like to me, as static as a turn based fight from Final Fantasy X era, minus the nifty visual effects and the characters' chatter. If that's what it is going to be, fine. I still think they could have shown a slightly more engaging fight though.

[Lantyssa]

It wasn't slow, it was just dull.  The same attack over and over.  I'm fine without a lot of flash, but cycle a couple of animations or something.

[Zetor]

They might have slowed down combat on purpose for that demo (what for? no idea), it looked like they were waiting around a lot between using special attacks.

[Simond]

Or, you know, it's a bad design.

[Zetor]

That's always a possibility.  It just looked odd to me how the character was standing with what looked like full mana [and no charging progress bars] without doing much of anything.

[01101010]

Or, you know, it's a bad design.

Or, its a better fit with the rest of their mechanics in the game.

[Simond]

In which case the entire game is a bad design.

[01101010]

Well I tend to like the interaction of skills between and among groups (Skillchains were a huge draw to FFXI) which is slightly easier when skills are spaced out a bit more than instant spam. Again, my own personal preference.

[Murgos]

It does look pretty though.  And really, a better looking WoW is probably all it will take to get to the million subs mark.

[Nija]

I think the thing that bugs me the most about this game and other asian MMOs is that I know I'll never have any interaction with the people who made the design decisions on the game> I don't even speak a language that they understand. I'll never read their blog or see them post on various messageboard, having semi-intelligent conversations with semi-intelligent people who happen to play their game.

I just don't like firing up the game and seeing patch notes that weren't influenced by players like myself. The same thing just happened to me a few months ago with Conan. Who knows what Funcom is up to. It just feels cold - take it or leave it, here's the game and the changes that nobody you know has proposed and nobody you'll ever hear from implemented them.

[LK]

Final Fantasy XIV will easily have a million subscribers. I am looking forward to this game, and as long as they fix the major fuck-ups from the first one (DEATH PENALTY, lots of downtime waiting for groups), I'm solid.

I'll probably have to start with a healer class though, even though my heart is in DPS.

[Lantyssa]

I think the thing that bugs me the most about this game and other asian MMOs is that I know I'll never have any interaction with the people who made the design decisions on the game> I don't even speak a language that they understand. I'll never read their blog or see them post on various messageboard, having semi-intelligent conversations with semi-intelligent people who happen to play their game.

I was on the SWG boards a few months after they opened.  I was deeply involved in the CH, Scout, and Ranger professions, where I was asked by several to join the CU test team that ended up not materializing, and later the BE communities where I solved a long standing puzzle on why a crafting system was broken.

I think I got to talk directly with Raph once about system design (which we differed on opinion) and the BE change might have had an impact finally in the NGE simply because the entire community listed it as an issue so they updated the displayed values.

Your chance of influencing the developers on anything is about nil, and the larger the game, the less likely it is.  You have to win the lotto to make a difference on an official board.

[Nija]

Your chance of influencing the developers on anything is about nil, and the larger the game, the less likely it is.  You have to win the lotto to make a difference on an official board.

I don't really expect to influence them I guess. I'd like to see the reasoning behind their decisions, instead of just seeing results when a patch hits.

[Draegan]

Final Fantasy XIV will easily have a million subscribers. I am looking forward to this game, and as long as they fix the major fuck-ups from the first one (DEATH PENALTY, lots of downtime waiting for groups), I'm solid.

I'll probably have to start with a healer class though, even though my heart is in DPS.

This game won't break a million if the PC UI/Control scheme stays the way it is.

[Raph]

I think I got to talk directly with Raph once about system design

You can talk to me anytime right here. :)

[01101010]

Final Fantasy XIV will easily have a million subscribers. I am looking forward to this game, and as long as they fix the major fuck-ups from the first one (DEATH PENALTY, lots of downtime waiting for groups), I'm solid.

I'll probably have to start with a healer class though, even though my heart is in DPS.

This game won't break a million if the PC UI/Control scheme stays the way it is.

I think it will sell a million on the name alone. Retention is a completely different story. Now then, show us on the doll where the devs touched you...

[Draegan]

I'm sure it'll sell a decent amount sure, WAR, Aion and AOC proved that.  I have nothing against the game, it's just the UI, Camera, and movement are absolutely terrible.

[Lantyssa]

You can talk to me anytime right here. :)

That's one of the things I love about f13.  We can talk all kinds of shop here where we would not have the opportunity on official boards for large scale games.

[Margalis]

Breaking NDA here is probably not the best idea.

[Velorath]

Final Fantasy XIV will easily have a million subscribers. I am looking forward to this game, and as long as they fix the major fuck-ups from the first one (DEATH PENALTY, lots of downtime waiting for groups), I'm solid.

I'll probably have to start with a healer class though, even though my heart is in DPS.

This game won't break a million if the PC UI/Control scheme stays the way it is.

I think it will sell a million on the name alone. Retention is a completely different story. Now then, show us on the doll where the devs touched you...

Hard to say.  I'm pretty sure FFXI never had 1 million subscribers, but then the PS2 version required you to by the Hard Drive, so that probably restricted its potential somewhat.

[Numtini]

Hard to say.  I'm pretty sure FFXI never had 1 million subscribers, but then the PS2 version required you to by the Hard Drive, so that probably restricted its potential somewhat.

From memory, it peaked at 550k, which doesn't sound all that exciting now, but at the time was the first to beat EQ1 numbers and made it the largest western style subscription MMO.

[Draegan]

Breaking NDA here is probably not the best idea.

UI and Controls have been at public demos.

[Murgos]

Nobody liked the FFXI controls at first but once you actually used them they were second nature.  Is it kind of liked that?

[Draegan]

Well I think there was a small percentage of the larger number of people that tried the game that actually got used to them.

[Reg]

There were much better reasons to leave FFXI after trying it than the controls.

[Rendakor]

That was honestly my biggest complaint about FFXI. I got the impression that it might have controlled OK if I was using a PS2 controller, but when trying to do it on a PC everything from combat to simply tweaking settings felt awkward as hell.

[Nija]

I think that's another addition to my weak argument from last page. Were PC FFXI issues ever addressed? I played a bit at first, and got very frustrated by the forced grouping, the terrible fight speed, and the UI that was just menus within menus within menus, along with ridiculous fonts - everything obviously geared towards consoles. Did they just ignore those issues, figuring the people who actually kept playing would get used to them? The way I see it, they'll never address anything if they never addressed the UI issues for PC players.

[Koyasha]

That was honestly my biggest complaint about FFXI. I got the impression that it might have controlled OK if I was using a PS2 controller, but when trying to do it on a PC everything from combat to simply tweaking settings felt awkward as hell.

Yes, it was designed to be played with a controller.  Personally, I just got one in order to play it with.  After that it was smooth, the only annoyance being putting down the controller to type then picking it back up again to play.

Personally I don't see an issue with a game being designed with a certain control scheme in mind.  I see a bigger issue with not allowing you to rebind buttons however you want, though.  But the menus thing, eh.  That's the way it was set up.  The main thing I'd have done is put a note in the manual saying something like "Optimum play experience with a controller." to make sure everyone knows that you should be using a controller.

As far as I know, the UI and controls are still pretty much the same.

[Rendakor]

They need to put that note on the box: Extra purchase (Controller) required. If I wanted to play a game with a controller, I'd play it on a console.