Rift: Planes of Telara

[Ghambit]

Well, given the tabletop community, it's likely they'd shelve the book if they found out about the lawsuit.  A fickle bunch they are, very wary of douchebaggery and keen on high drama.   (sigh)
Rifts is a cool product, dont get me wrong...  but if they were Pinnacle,WotC,GW,Decipher, and/or a few others, we might very well be looking at a more IP specific MMO.  As such, the game currently doesnt carry enough weight for it to be advantageous for Trion, hence the reasoning Palladium should jump on-board instead of casting stones.

Given HoT's errr PoT's  design, when IP searching Trion probably just ran into the brickwall that is WotC.  What other AAA "plane of reality" pnp RPGs are out there?

I'm all for creating large, fictional verses alongside games.  Even to the point of creating other games; TCG, boardgames, webgames, etc.  If this particular group of dorkdom put their heads together they might just be able to create something worthwhile to purchase... but, whiny egos prevail eh?

[UnSub]

Story > Rules.

... which pretty much leaves it up to an argument over which rule set works best for your story. If you want your story to have dino-mechs fighting magic Terminators from the year 3125 on an abandoned space station circling a singularity that, if activated, will destroy all time, magik and space, then yes, Rifts is for you.

That said: Rifts is a rules mess at its base, especially when you take in the expansion books. You can use homebrew rulings to fix things, but that doesn't mean Rifts is a balanced RPG system.

[Mrbloodworth]

From your link:

Not exactly a Second Edition, because most of the rules remain unchanged, ...

I like the possibilities the setting allows given a good GM and group, but Hoax' assessment really isn't far off the mark.

The attempting to be neutral wiki article says the same as well.  Don't worry though Bloodworth has no need for objective assessment after all he's a Rifts GM arguing with me that he understands what people who don't play Rifts think of it.  In typical Bloodworth fashion he seems incapable of remembering what he was responding to after he's typed 5 words of a reply so he just says stuff that is somewhat related, maybe, sort of, dim the lights and squint at his posts and it might make some kind of sense.

Nobody is saying Rifts sucks and DND games that play like a wankfest version of pnp Diablo are cool dude.  Thats not even what we're talking about.  Rifts is just a fringe neckbeard extra complex the way old school PnP'ers like it game system that nobody cares about and sure as fuck shouldn't be suing anybody because they are using the word Rift because it makes them look stupid.  That's what we're talking about.

The subject of quality, is something you brought up and are using as some quantifier for the validity of the case. The rest is subjective opinion, never once did I talk abut the games system itself until you decided to get all RPG nerd fight on the subject.

AFAIK, quality, opinion, and complexity of the product never had a bearing on a copyright or IP case. so what was your point?

Oh, I see, the case is invalid because you think the product sucks or that no one cares about it? I see, perhaps they will bring that up in the case then.

Story > Rules.

... which pretty much leaves it up to an argument over which rule set works best for your story. If you want your story to have dino-mechs fighting magic Terminators from the year 3125 on an abandoned space station circling a singularity that, if activated, will destroy all time, magik and space, then yes, Rifts is for you.

That said: Rifts is a rules mess at its base, especially when you take in the expansion books. You can use homebrew rulings to fix things, but that doesn't mean Rifts is a balanced RPG system.

Sure, GM house rules always win though. Thing is, this isn't a mechanical system like DnD. Its a character driven system, and a role playing system story system. Different focuses. IMO. In fact in the books, it is always emphasized that you should "Use common sense, its your game". It also says in a number of places, such as the GM guide, that while the game has been play tested, balanced does not mean equal, the claim of the books ever needing or attempting to be "balanced" or equal is not coming from the creators or users. If you run games that are purely combat and grid maps, you will hate it. if you run games that are based on role playing, character, and setting, its a fucking gold mine.

[UnSub]

if you run games that are based on role playing, character, and setting, its a fucking gold mine.

In that case, the choice of rule system becomes increasingly irrelevant.

And yes, I did like some sort of balance in my p'n'p gaming days because I played with world class rule abusers. Rifts is definitely open to that kind of abuse.

Back on topic: change the name to "Schisms: Champions of Telara" and we can all call the game SCOT.

[Modern Angel]

Rifts is bad and if you like Rifts you are a bad person. Mr. Bloodworth.

[Mrbloodworth]

Rifts is bad and if you like Rifts you are a bad person. Mr. Bloodworth.

So it seems. 

[Draegan]

http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/109/1096726p1.html

Souls and other stuff.

[Threash]

http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/109/1096726p1.html

Souls and other stuff.

That actually sounds pretty interesting.  Lots of character customization options is a big draw for me.

[LC]

The whole rift thing sounds lot like a modified version of Warhammer's public quests.

[Draegan]

The whole rift thing sounds lot like a modified version of Warhammer's public quests.

What an astute observation.

[Threash]

Which was not a bad idea in itself.  The only problem with Warhammers public quests is that they vastly overoptimistic about their own popularity so you had three different public quests per single quest hub X three quest hubs per zone X three zone pairings per tier.  So just between levels 1-10 there was 54 different public quests, all of them almost deserted.  If it had been  ONE big public quest at the end of each zone that sorta tied everything together instead that would have worked out a lot better.

[PalmTrees]

http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/109/1096726p1.html

Souls and other stuff.

Wonder what the overpowered tank-mage spec will be. Probably the opposite of whatever sounds interesting to me. I always pick the gimp.

[Draegan]

Which was not a bad idea in itself.  The only problem with Warhammers public quests is that they vastly overoptimistic about their own popularity so you had three different public quests per single quest hub X three quest hubs per zone X three zone pairings per tier.  So just between levels 1-10 there was 54 different public quests, all of them almost deserted.  If it had been  ONE big public quest at the end of each zone that sorta tied everything together instead that would have worked out a lot better.

I agree.  I was just being sarcastic because every article, and almost every forum post, refers to rifts as Public Quests. 

[Malakili]

Which was not a bad idea in itself.  The only problem with Warhammers public quests is that they vastly overoptimistic about their own popularity so you had three different public quests per single quest hub X three quest hubs per zone X three zone pairings per tier.  So just between levels 1-10 there was 54 different public quests, all of them almost deserted.  If it had been  ONE big public quest at the end of each zone that sorta tied everything together instead that would have worked out a lot better.

Yeah, I remember the greenskin public quest in the starting area the first couple weeks, fighting waves of dwarves with a couple dozen greenskins at a time, that was fun.  The whole newbie area funneled you there, and then everyone did it a few times before moving on.  If they had kept the design like that in general, it would've been great.  But as you said, you were lucky every to find one with enough players to make it past the first stage in any other the others.  Oh well, WAR had plenty of good ideas, and plenty of botched execution.  If anything I think Guild Wars 2's "public quests" that change the way the zone functions rather than just resetting after 5 minutes could get more people involved and actually work, but I could be wrong.

[Draegan]

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-rift-planes/700767

Gameplay demo.

The dungeon looks awesome.  It's not a WOW hallway.  Also different parts of the dungeon unlock as you get higher in level.  So there is always something to come back too.

And release date early Q1 2011?

[Stormwaltz]

The bit of tech that impresses me in the recent videos is that they've managed realtime changes to ground texture and clutter/frills (grass and underbrush) during rift events. I've never seen that before. I would've loved to have that ability when I was doing dynamic mob invasions in AC1.

[Ghambit]

Hmm... I was under the impression the Rift stuff would encompass more than a football field sized area.  I wouldn't call that a "dynamic world," nor would I call that fully taking advantage of server-side tech.  I mean, what about the world is really interactable??  I guess the thoughts on Rifts being just PQ's was valid.  So nothing new there.

The dungeons?  Meh.  I like the mechanic of unlocking other parts as you level up though, but that's nothing groundbreaking.  (I believe Vanguard had the same mechanic yes?  DDO also something similar.  Not to mention the elephant in the room, WoW.  Which basically disallows progression w/o significant gear churn.)   Matter of fact, I think I prefer the more abstract mechanic of progression through skill and loot, rather than just simply level.  So nothing new there.

The "death zone" was something Funcom came up with in the original AoC design.  You were supposed to fight your way out of Hades everytime you died, but they eventually did away with that for some reason.  Anyways, nothing new there either.

So like...  what is really different and cool about this game again?  It'll regain my respect if they can chunk the lion's share of the processing (graphics and otherwise) load onto the servers though.  But how do you even market such a capability?  If it even exists in this game.

[Lantyssa]

It doesn't matter if it's new.  It matters how it's put together.

[Draegan]

Ghambit whining about a game he isn't a pre-launch fanboy of.  Nothing new there.

From what we know, the game has some really awesome character customization.  You get to "slot" or whatever thy call it, three souls.  Each soul is a class. So there should be some really awesome multiclassing going on.  I believe I've heard that the "rifts" aren't the only dynamic thing about the game, but we'll see.

As far as the dungeon, sure it's nothing new, but it so much better than WOW and more LOTRO like.  I'm really looking forward to a game with decent production value.  VG wasn't it.  Dungeon design doesn't have to be new or groundbreaking to be fun.  Opening up different parts of the dungeon as you level gives you incentive to go back which I think is pretty neat.  I have no idea if VG did it.  But yes, nothing new really, but it really comes down to is if they made them fun.  We'll see. 

I haven't heard of the Death Zone in this game.  Unless you can actually do something in it, it may be a waste of time.  We'll see how it interacts with the game.

But yeah, except for the "dynamic content" they are toting, the multiclass part of the souls seems awesome. 

[Threash]

The "death zone" was something Funcom came up with in the original AoC design.  You were supposed to fight your way out of Hades everytime you died, but they eventually did away with that for some reason. 

It fucked up groups/raids.

[Ghambit]

Ghambit whining about a game he isn't a pre-launch fanboy of.  Nothing new there.

?Que que?  I thought I WAS the pre-launch fanboy for this game. (I started this damned thread man)
Besides, I always thought fanboys were the biggest whiners anyways when they didnt get what they wanted.

Not sayin I dont like the game's progress so far, I was just hoping for something a bit more visibily earth-shaking.  Ditto on the production value though, it looks fairly clean, which will be a nice thing to behold no matter how much newness there is, especially with light instancing.  And indeed, the soul-system is fairly neat.   I foresee many restless evenings brooding over class choices.

Also interesting this is slated for an early 2011 launch.  That's pretty damned efficient since word only started trickling in this time last year.   For $100 million damned dollars I'm sure the proverbial whip is crackin.

[FatuousTwat]

You were supposed to fight your way out of Hades everytime you died, but they eventually did away with that for some reason.  Anyways, nothing new there either.

That could be a pretty awesome idea, if you were ultra powerful and one-shot all the mobs (your "spirit" is invincible or some crap, gives you a chance to cool down after dying to the same quest mob for the Nth time), and you could turn it off in the options.

[Hoax]

I'm more dissapointed with the combat I guess I had gotten this mixed up with the 1-2 very very asian games we're expecting in the next couple years (with the insanely big boobs and shiney gfx) and thought it was going to have something beyond tab + auto attack + ability hotkey combat.

Unless they really do their core dynamic world fighting against the playerbase theme justice instead of that being an afterthought to static raid dungeons I can safely say I wont give a fuck about this title.

[Lantyssa]

I thought this was Tera's info dump when first announced, so I can understand that mistake.

[Ghambit]

If they're smart they'll make the death-zone some kind of social area with housing perhaps.  Buy mats (at horribly expensive prices), change armor, laugh at other dead people, etc.

[Segoris]

If they're smart they'll make the death-zone some kind of social area with housing perhaps.  Buy mats (at horribly expensive prices), change armor, laugh at other dead people, etc.

I sure hope not, that sounds awful to me. If they went beyond those ideas of just having death put you in what equates to a town, then that may be a good start of something interesting. Quest objectives, having different powers while dead and fighting other souls for less xp than while alive. Those aren't extremely good ideas, but imo they sound better then "hey you died, here's a town in the underworld instead of just putting you back at a bind spot or closest town in the world of the living."

Edit: I'm not sure if different powers should be stronger/better as the trade off for less xp, though that would be a little more interesting. I don't think people should be encouraged to be in the underworld realm if the main game is supposed to be in the world of the living, thus why I think in general this isn't such a great idea at all anyways.

[Draegan]

I believe that death thing is where everyone starts the game.

Players will begin life in the Shadowlands. Not to be confused with the titular location of a certain Anarchy Online expansion, the Shadowlands is sort of a place between life and death in the Rift universe. Players are all former heroes of a past war that rocked the world, and begin as what the team refers to as "Ascended Souls", a Telaran slain during the great Shade War and resurrected to combat the forces of Regulos. As one of the Ascended, players have access and the ability to commune with the souls of Telara's many fallen heroes. Basically this serves as the lore reasoning behind death and the multi-classing system.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/loadNews/17269

I think that's what people are talking about?

[HaemishM]

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-rift-planes/700767

Gameplay demo.

The dungeon looks awesome.

I neither saw nor heard much in that video that made me think it was all that different from WAR's public quests and WoW/LotRO dungeons. The rifts spawning anywhere on the grid as opposed to in set places was kind of cool, but I saw not much else new there. Pretty, but DIKU.

[Threash]

I'm not sure why you would have expected anything else.

[HaemishM]

Eternal optimism? Brain damage?

[Draegan]

I recognized it as DIKU right away.  I like DIKU though.

[Rendakor]

I recognized it as DIKU right away.  I like DIKU though.

This.

[Ollie]

I don't think most vets despise the Diku as much as they let on at times. I know I don't, despite my past bitching. It's just that the lack of viable options in the MMOG space can be depressing at times. Not everyone likes Space Spreadsheet Online or is willing to stick with decade-old dinosaurs, so blaming the Diku for homogenizing the field becomes a convenient outlet for pent-up frustration.

Rifts might turn out to be a fun game. But even so, some people are left disappointed because the team has the talent to deliver something that is both a good game and not-Diku. As naive as it sounds, I for one wish they would have taken the plunge and pushed the envelope.

[Mrbloodworth]

I know I am personally burned out on it, its why i have really enjoyed the recent shooter attempts, truth be told the whole MMOFPS is still in its larva stage in this space.

I just dont think I personally can do another treadmill if the combat in MMG stay the same.

[jakonovski]

Too lazy to read the thread right now, but is this really based on the tabletop rpg Rifts?

Because if it is,