Here comes the next content patch (3.2)

[Merusk]

I got into a discussion in guild about this yesterday.  I asked the asshat I was debating if he felt people other than raiders being able to access good gear honestly diminished his fun or somehow cheapened his accomplishments.  He and 3 other people jumped in with "Yes, it does!"

Their logic was, "if everyone has access to good gear, then I'll get noobs in my raids who don't know what to do with it."   I didn't think of it at the time, but really, if they weren't raiding Naxx why would they suddenly want to go to Uludar?  I did point out that if that's your total concern, and not just the diminishing of your e-peen, then be more discriminating and boot idiots quicker.  It ended about there.

 

I now hope that all future games go the badge and 'one trinket for all' route and crush these guys spirit.  Wtf.

[Paelos]

I say give ppl the gear easily then raise the bar in actual skill and coordination that harder raids entail. I think with huge epeen titles and achievements, the need for gear to show off has lessened in the recent expansion, which is good.

I still think making the best weapons difficult to get is a good idea though. They are very visually defining for a character and probably the first thing ppl notice beyond ridiculous shoulderpads or helms.

[Fordel]

That is until there is a 100 dps gap between the best and average weapons.

[Paelos]

That is until there is a 100 dps gap between the best and average weapons.

The easy fix is to retrofit them back into tokens, but one gap behind. I'm still in favor of having just one set of badges and increasing the cost rather than the type. Inflate the costs for later items but have the bosses in higher levels drop more.

[K9]

That is until there is a 100 dps gap between the best and average weapons.

The top tier of S7 2h weapons have ~100 extra weapon DPS over the titansteel destroyer.

[Triforcer]

Pv in WoW stopped being fun when arenas got introduced.  I cancelled around then and (except for trying out TBC and one or two more brief one week dalliances) I never went back.

That's why I always love new MMOs.  A good, new MMO will have fun and balance for about the first year.  After that, the gap always gets too wide. 

[Zetor]

Are you talking about the same pvp I've experienced pre-BC? 'Cos I don't care much for arenas either, but calling pvp in vanilla wow anywhere near balanced, is, well,   for about 20 different reasons.

[kildorn]

Pv in WoW stopped being fun when arenas got introduced.  I cancelled around then and (except for trying out TBC and one or two more brief one week dalliances) I never went back.

That's why I always love new MMOs.  A good, new MMO will have fun and balance for about the first year. After that, the gap always gets too wide.  

lolwut?

*thinks* DAOC.. no DR on CC, AE Stun/AE Nuke on milegates. Woo. Followed by the Archery Doom Days when you could restealth as soon as your arrow loosed, and be an invisible oneshot machine.

WoW: Mortal Strike, no spellpower as a stat, so casters stalled immediately on hitting epic gear.

Yeah, MMOs aren't balanced for the first year before the devs get to breaking them. MMOs tend to launch as horribly unbalanced messes.

edit: Don't take this to mean I like Arena, or approve of the number of strange sweeping class changes made entirely due to that horrible pet dev project.

[Rasix]

MMOs tend to launch as horribly unbalanced messes.

Which is great for gankers. There's always some item, ability or build that the developers completely overlook and is essentially an IWIN button for a ganker vs. just about anyone.

[Soulflame]

STUNGARD! 

[Triforcer]

What Rasix said.  When I said balanced I meant I could gank a lot, sorry for the confusion. 

[Rasix]

I remember your rocket helm tales.  I assume you were a rogue as well.  Not many escape options to anyone you'd attack.

If you're really into PVP and more specifically ganking or griefing, early in a game's launch is the best time you'll have.  Hit points are low, average player knowledge and organization is low, lag is high, gear inflation hasn't occurred, and there's severe balance issues that most won't know about.  It's fast paced, buggy as hell, and fun.  

I'm really amazed I only died to getting ebolted about 2-3 times in early UO and never died to a Magic Arrow.

[kildorn]

So the opposite of Balanced: unbalanced, but you find it fun. That I will agree MMOs can be for their first year. As fucking stupid as it was, Tarren Mill was amusing.

[Musashi]

Better than Tarren Mill was the huge multi-guild e-peen wars on raid night on the way into Blackrock Mountain.  That shit was better than raiding.

[K9]

MCing people into lava is   

[Lakov_Sanite]

MCing people into lava is   

Why wow will always be one of my favorite games.

[Selby]

Why wow will always be one of my favorite games.

Seriously.  Some of the old tricks and fun we used to have with the lava were pretty nifty.

[Sheepherder]

MCing people into lava is   

When it broke after the jump leaving the victim suspended mid-air 50 feet above certain doom was also pretty good.

[Lakov_Sanite]

mc'ing off of naxx is fun too.

[Musashi]

On my server, you had better have all your dudes together, and prepared to fight on the way to Molten Core/Blackwing Lair.  The way that the geography was set up made it a tactical heaven for those who understood how to exploit it.  And for those who didn't, well, it made for a pretty frustrating evening if there was a raid that was more interested in PvP camping you into oblivion than PvE.

I guess even on a PvP server that it was just too much griefing.  Between between cross-server battlegrounds, and meeting stones it's pretty much death for that kind of large scale outdoor PvP.  I just figure when you agree to play on a PvP server, you die sometimes.

[Lakov_Sanite]

There's a newness factor in all games that can make the tedious or annoying feel less so.  From the single player to the multiplayer everything can be fun the first time, the 100th? not so much.  World pvp, ganking and pvp servers are novel but after three years of playing people get sick of being ganked on the way to dungeons or having whatever OP class of the week come out and two-shot them.

Our most precious commodity as gamers is time. We want to be able to do what we want when we want it.  Sure there's times we want to pvp but very few want it ALL the time. All I have to say is thank god blizzard doesn't listen to people like tri-forcer when making games because while in the short term I might have fun with a griefers paradise, it would get old quick.

As to arena's...well, personally I don't like them being the best way to acquire gear since it encourages specific spec and specific class make-up.  I don't mind that it takes other people so much but the whole atmosphere of it seems far too serious for my tastes. Arena really has become the raiding of pvp and i never liked that because as a raider first i always enjoyed pvp as my relaxtion not as my third job.

[Paelos]

So it turns out that all the tier 9 pieces are going to be generic reskins within each armor category, then slightly tweaked on the opposite faction. This has started a whole slew of angry comments from many people on many forums about unique models and lazy use of resources. While I agree the approach is not polished, I believe they are really really pushing for timely content at the expense of unique art. I know there are many graphics whores and outfit lovers who would think this is a horrid way to operate. I am in the camp that they need to pick up the pace in their development cycle as that will be a much larger complaint and loss of customer retention.

We all know you only get to pick 2 of 3 in a development cycle: Polish, stability, or speed. With this particular section of their cycle, I believe sacrificing polish is the way to go. However, in regards to the last patch where Icecrown gets introduced, they will surely sacrifice speed in order to get everything exactly the way they want it. So, overall when I'm hacking through the normal modes of the Argent Tournament and racking up badges from heroics, I'm not really sure I give a damn that I'm becoming part of the Argent Dawn's clone army ready to assault Icecrown. Why? Because I'll actually be having fun.

[Lantyssa]

Making sixteen new sets of armor with every new content release is ridiculous if it's going to be done in a timely fashion.  If only there were an appearance tab, they could slowly expand options, not have new armor be a limiting factor, all while not having everyone look the same. 

[Musashi]

So it turns out that all the tier 9 pieces are going to be generic reskins within each armor category, then slightly tweaked on the opposite faction. This has started a whole slew of angry comments from many people on many forums about unique models and lazy use of resources. While I agree the approach is not polished, I believe they are really really pushing for timely content at the expense of unique art. I know there are many graphics whores and outfit lovers who would think this is a horrid way to operate. I am in the camp that they need to pick up the pace in their development cycle as that will be a much larger complaint and loss of customer retention.

We all know you only get to pick 2 of 3 in a development cycle: Polish, stability, or speed. With this particular section of their cycle, I believe sacrificing polish is the way to go. However, in regards to the last patch where Icecrown gets introduced, they will surely sacrifice speed in order to get everything exactly the way they want it. So, overall when I'm hacking through the normal modes of the Argent Tournament and racking up badges from heroics, I'm not really sure I give a damn that I'm becoming part of the Argent Dawn's clone army ready to assault Icecrown. Why? Because I'll actually be having fun.

Totally agree.  And it does feel like content is coming out at a reasonable pace.  Probably for the first time ever.

[Sheepherder]

Making sixteen new sets of armor with every new content release is ridiculous if it's going to be done in a timely fashion.  If only there were an appearance tab, they could slowly expand options, not have new armor be a limiting factor, all while not having everyone look the same.  

Blizzard is attached to the concept of the armor models being the payoff, therefore we're stuck with either slow development cycles or heavy use of retextures.

I was actually hoping they would revise all the old armor models, not just the Naxx ones, it probably would have bought them some time before we reached this point..

[WindupAtheist]

They should just have a room somewhere full of guys who do nothing but design shoulderpad models all the time. Then when it's time for a new tier of bullshit, just pick one.

[K9]

They have enough cash to do better than this.

[Lantyssa]

Blizzard is attached to the concept of the armor models being the payoff, therefore we're stuck with either slow development cycles or heavy use of retextures.

Yes, however they developed that mentality when putting out different looking sets for the classes.  If they start making two sets per with just different colors, that philosphy won't hold up so well, because not only will all warriors look the same, but everyone will look the same.

"Is that a Warrior?"
"Paladin I think."
"Oh, maybe Priest."
"Pretty sure it's not a Mage..."
"Wait, it's a Shaman... Oh gods, get it off.  GET IT OFF!"

[K9]

Realistically they could save themselves a ton of money and get fans to design armour sets. They could even hold competitions. The quality of some of the fan art on the main website is really really high.

And people would fall over themselves to enter that competition.

[Selby]

Realistically they could save themselves a ton of money and get fans to design armour sets.

The biggest problem with that is always the legal aspects of such a thing.

[K9]

I'm sure there are legal aspects. What would the legal aspects be?

[Sheepherder]

They have enough cash to do better than this.

Money is likely not the problem.  From an efficiency standpoint art projects have diminishing returns when you throw more artists at single objectives, as you will inevitably have to scrap or modify significant portions of the original artwork to create a coherent whole.  Same for having artists who are able to coordinate with each other on a project.

Yes, however they developed that mentality when putting out different looking sets for the classes.  If they start making two sets per with just different colors, that philosphy won't hold up so well, because not only will all warriors look the same, but everyone will look the same.

What you quoted was just pointing out the obvious problem, not espousing a particular solution.  Really, the problem is systemic: they decided that the gear you acquire is largely visible armor pieces, from which follows the notion that every piece should have a look and such.  As was said, the quick and easy solution is an armor tab, possibly with some override options so that you can tell what that red/yellow/blue/green/pale name is wearing.  The other, more complex, option is to create a bunch of statless armor sets to be sold at vendors and replace armor drops with gem/enchant drops that match special slots on said armors that do not take normal enchants/gems.

[Mattemeo]

They should just have a room somewhere full of guys who do nothing but design shoulderpad models all the time. Then shoot them all so they can't unleash their horrific creations onto a paying customer base.

FIFY.

Shoulderpads have been my aesthetic bane since I returned to the game in January. My main is a female human Shadowpriest, so to be honest, I actually have some of the more conservative looking shoulderpad models and they tend to sit well on her shoulders, and being in Shadowform 90% of the time helps, too.

However, I've recently been levelling a male draenei Warrior, and oh dear lawd, could they have made me look any more ridiculous? Not only are the shoulderpad monstrosities ludicrously overlarge (male draenei are top-heavy as it is) but they're situated on the shoulders so abominably the character ends up looking like a circus runaway, tired of their 'Atlas' act, yet somehow still compelled to balance 500lbs of random crap on the farthermost edge of their deltoids.

/shoulderpads.

Now.

FFS.

[Sheepherder]

However, I've recently been levelling a male draenei Warrior, and oh dear lawd, could they have made me look any more ridiculous? Not only are the shoulderpad monstrosities ludicrously overlarge (male draenei are top-heavy as it is) but they're situated on the shoulders so abominably the character ends up looking like a circus runaway, tired of their 'Atlas' act, yet somehow still compelled to balance 500lbs of random crap on the farthermost edge of their deltoids.

You chose the wrong race.  The anchor points for shoulderpads on the male Draenei are offset from the centre of the torso much more than is usual.

[Lantyssa]

He chose the right race, just the wrong sex.