Aion (Open Beta, Launch Day Info too!)

[Threash]

If they offered a free trial, would I have the chance to see anything different than any other MMO out there right now? Not being snarky, but would I have enough time to see any PvP or other unique mechanics that would grab me before I had to pony up the moolah to play further?

My guess is no.

Nope, not at all.  It would take several weeks to get to the pvp level, all you would see is a polished mmo with nice graphics. 

[statisticalfool]

Is anybody here now close enough to the endgame to actually give it a good sussing?

[Threash]

I took two weeks off to play Dragon Age but i'm level 40 atm, the only part of the endgame i'm involved with is fortress pvp which its very well done and entertaining.

[Shatter]

Im 45.5 on my cleric.  Most of my time is split between Steel Rake and other instances, trying to wrap up quests, farming and leveling extraction(mostly for money), Forts/AP gain and grinding inbetween. Once I get to 46 I can start to do Dregion(sp) instance which im looking forward to.  There is a lot to do once you get into the 40+ bracket including getting your 4000DP ability, Betoni weapon(overall gives about 10 mil xp), obtain level 42 and 46 books, advanced stigma quests, etc etc.  Once I get 50 there are quests for high level gear or getting gear through AP and another advanced stigma quest.  Ill also be looking to go back and complete my campaign quests I havent wrapped up yet. 

[damijin]

Ex-L2 player, so discount my feedback if you wish.

Been playing about 1-2 hours a day since pre-launch. Level 30 Cleric, my girlfriend is level 32 soon. To me, the fact that we're this level with casual play is not disappointing. However, I never played WoW, and I could care less about hitting the level cap. I already roll plenty of people in PvP at level 30, and I get rolled plenty too. But the fact that I can get any kills at all without being at cap shows me that I just don't need to rush to be there, and I'll get there when I get there.

Then again, like I said, I played L2 -- where pretty much no one is expected to ever hit the cap. It's a vastly different play style from most of you ex-WoW folks, but I can honestly say I don't understand the western need to be MAX without grinding. Why does it matter if your level can't go up any higher? I enjoy it better when I'm still pushing for a goal and have something to look forward to, not when it's finished.

[Nebu]

Why does it matter if your level can't go up any higher? I enjoy it better when I'm still pushing for a goal and have something to look forward to, not when it's finished.

It matters when the endgame is pvp and cap-level players will destroy you in combat due to the impact of level difference on pvp power. 

The rush to the endgame is primarily to even out the advantage other players have in pvp due to level-based differences.  The game then becomes a matter of honing your pvp skill while also acquiring gear that will negate any advantage an opponent has in an attempt to limit the pvp game to an encounter based either on skill or class differences (or both).

[statisticalfool]

Why does it matter if your level can't go up any higher? I enjoy it better when I'm still pushing for a goal and have something to look forward to, not when it's finished.

Interesting point.

I think part of it is is also that in traditional xp systems, levels are really clear in that your level goes up after B more bubbles, you get a bubble every T minutes , and so you just need to spend B*T minutes and you add one level. Most other treadmills in game avoid being quite so straightforward with time => reward. Given also that in most modern MMO's, it's pretty easy/skillless to hit something near optimal XP gain, it just further reduces the variables to time.

In games where significant differences in level mean significant differences in survivability, then either you need ways to obviate the level difference (sidekick/exemplar), or the need for a cap to stop the treadmill, or some way to either avoid or make players not care when a lv 132 character comes up and one shots their lvl 91 character.

So what games managed to deal with having no (or ridiculously hard to reach) level cap? (I don't know enough about L2 to understand how that works).

[caladein]

There's nothing really to understand about L2's grind.  It was long at launch, and for the most part only got longer.

And damijin is probably completely honest when he says he didn't really care about getting to level cap.  When I played L2, I didn't really care either.  If a PvP opponent was of a class I had no chance against or a billion levels above me or in a small gang I just took my lumps and tried to get on with my day.

The siege PvP was just operating on a such a different, RMT-fueled, level that I really didn't care about it one way or another.

[Xurtan]

Is anybody here now close enough to the endgame to actually give it a good sussing?

I stopped at 49 a while back, just got bored. My question to endgame is.. what endgame? You run Dark Poeta every day (Once you grind the Blue Balaur scales you need to enter each time. 20 the first time, 5 forever after is my understanding.) Other than that, you basically spend time grinding out the literal hundreds of RARE items you need, to ATTEMPT to make an item, that you need to PROC on, to make a Miragent armor piece. Lets see.. 12 Hot Balaur Heart, 125 Boiling Balaur Blood, one of each Expert Premium Flux..this is hoping that you don't fail, that you proc, and that you yourself have a craft up to 499, seeing as the item cannot be traded. (Or camping for NPCs that spawn on certain days, or searching throughout the world for small random spawn items to pick up..Fun.)

Outside of that, what is there? The PvP isn't exactly exciting. Sure, you can go rifting. The last time I went rifting with my guild we killed more bots than anything. Out of 270 some kills, we found 10-20 real people. Fortresses? Lower level forts are capped within a few minutes, upper ones are either capped quickly, or not at all it seems. Its either a huge ridiculous zerg force, or no one to kill at all; one extreme or another.

*shrug* Maybe the game will be much better once everyone gets to 50, and actually start pvping and showing for all of the fort sieges. This has been my experience thus far, though.

Quite frankly if I hadn't of had a static group from 37 onward, I would have stopped in the early 40s, likely. 44 was a bitch.

[damijin]

So what games managed to deal with having no (or ridiculously hard to reach) level cap? (I don't know enough about L2 to understand how that works).

I'll pick a point in time where L2's cap made more sense than it does now. For the majority of the time the game has been in operation, the cap has been level 75, then later, 78. In addition to this, all characters may subclass after level 76 and take on another class that they can change to freely in any town. This class is like an alt within the same character, and can also level up to 78. After you reach 76 on the sub, you may take a second subclass, and then a third. Getting all 4 of your classes to 78 is virtually impossible in terms of time requirement.

However, what's interesting is that since L2's PvP is largely based on clan warfare, and as a result is typically groups fighting groups or even armies fighting armies (100 vs 100 or more), lower level characters and people with shit gear can participate in PvP. The reason being that in a group scenario, you stand more of a chance against higher level players (as long as your side has some high levels too), and it's less about who's stats are higher, and more about executing good strategies as a team (stats help though!).

In addition to this, the final few levels that are the hardest to grind out, do not typically yield extremely powerful skills (though for some classes they do), and the increase in stats is negligible. Essentially, the higher you get, the less you get out of each level and the harder they are to get to. It's severe diminishing returns.

This sort of balances it out, basically you can PvP are a reasonable level to reach against higher level people. The higher levels and better gear often give very slight advantages, and hardcore pvpers want every slight advantage they can get.

Lately, L2 has sort of broken that mold and added up to level 85, with some of those later levels giving ridiculously strong skills and being unbareable to grind out for legit, non-botting players. That's pretty shitty and makes PvP less interesting than it used to be. Still, lower levels (76+) can participate in large battles like sieges, and are welcome on raids because there is no cap for how many people you can bring to a raid -- so every extra hand helps.

[Falconeer]

I never played WoW, and I could care less about hitting the level cap. I already roll plenty of people in PvP at level 30, and I get rolled plenty too. But the fact that I can get any kills at all without being at cap shows me that I just don't need to rush to be there, and I'll get there when I get there.

We are weird people, Damijin. But yeah, you know, I am totally with/like you.

[Shatter]

I think I havent become burnt out on Aion because Ive mixed it up a bit in my playtime.  I think the burnout is worse when you rush to level in this game because you will hit a wall.  Last night I cleared out some quests, leveled my extraction, used up my rest XP and walked away with 3-4 bars into 45.  Then I switched to my alt and used up the rest XP and leveled her extraction a bit before I went to bed.  Ive been thinking about deleting my alt on my 2nd account and making an Elyos so I can explore their areas which would make rifting easier. 

[Shatter]

http://www.aionsource.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1856491

26,000 more bots go bye bye.  Thats what over 50,000 in just over a week?

[tazelbain]

Lum needs his own Poker Face video.

[Chimpy]

One thing the bot-banning has done (not at the fault of the bots but of the greediness/lack of understanding of supply/demand) is the prices on basic shit like Elemental Stones (which is the basis for just about everything in alchemy) that drops off mobs has skyrocketed. I need to make a bunch of scrolls, but I am going to have to wait another week or so for the current auctions to filter out before I will buy the stuff I need since it is so retardedly expensive right now.

No one is willing to pay the price for the crafted items if you charged the price it would cost to buy the base materials right now.

[Nebu]

http://www.aionsource.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1856491

26,000 more bots go bye bye.  Thats what over 50,000 in just over a week?

Sounds like a great marketing tool.  On one hand you make the customers happy by banning bots.  On the other, you make more money off of new sales and sub fees from the replacement bot accounts.  For NCSoft that's a win-win!

[LK]

Lum the CONQUERER is at work.

[UnSub]

Sounds like a great marketing tool.  On one hand you make the customers happy by banning bots.  On the other, you make more money off of new sales and sub fees from the replacement bot accounts.  For NCSoft that's a win-win!

Botters generally don't play with legit accounts. Credit card fraud, keygens, account hacking, etc. Plus I don't think that many botters expect to hang around long enough to pay the sub fees with individual accounts (they'll have a paid up core account, obviously, but a lot more unpaid temp ones).

[Checkers]

http://www.aionsource.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1856491

26,000 more bots go bye bye.  Thats what over 50,000 in just over a week?

Sounds like a great marketing tool.  On one hand you make the customers happy by banning bots.  On the other, you make more money off of new sales and sub fees from the replacement bot accounts.  For NCSoft that's a win-win!

Is this sarcasm?

[Kageru]

So did L2 not have the same aggressive level scaling, where a couple of levels lower makes the opponent helpless, as Aion has?

[Shatter]

So did L2 not have the same aggressive level scaling, where a couple of levels lower makes the opponent helpless, as Aion has?

A couple levels doesnt make much difference in Aion.  A Level 45 has a good chance to beat a level 47 for example.  Ive beaten level 50's at level 43 and Ive beaten plenty of people who are 3,4,5 levels higher then me many times.  Ive also lost to people lower then me as well.  For the most you dont see a lot of missed or resisted attacked within 3 to 4 levels difference, its once you start getting to 5+ levels that it becomes a bigger issue.  10+ levels you are screwed. 

[raydeen]

So did L2 not have the same aggressive level scaling, where a couple of levels lower makes the opponent helpless, as Aion has?

A couple levels doesnt make much difference in Aion.  A Level 45 has a good chance to beat a level 47 for example.  Ive beaten level 50's at level 43 and Ive beaten plenty of people who are 3,4,5 levels higher then me many times.  Ive also lost to people lower then me as well.  For the most you dont see a lot of missed or resisted attacked within 3 to 4 levels difference, its once you start getting to 5+ levels that it becomes a bigger issue.  10+ levels you are screwed. 

I might give Aion a shot at some point if this is the case. I don't think WoW is even that forgiving and I'm starting to like PvP. Been a carebear for far too long.

[Nebu]

Is this sarcasm?

Not at all.  Did you play DAoC?  I'd say that 30% of their subs were bots.  Buff bots, gold farming bots, leveling bots, you name it.  Bots are a common fixture in any pvp game where gold, gear, or buffs gives an edge.  If the developer can make money on those accounts then they play a role in the economy and add to the games operating budget.  Bots are really only an issue when the people behind them use the accounts to harass players.  If you can minimize that, bots provide a service to players while providing revenue to the developer. 

Until designers can do a better job of creating games that don't warrant the existence of bots, then you have to come to terms with their existence and find a way to profit from them without it affecting your regular playerbase too negatively. 

[Sir T]

The problem for me on Bots is that they change the envoronment of the game around them. People dont spot the killer grind of a game becasue players are using bots to level while they are asleep, so the devs dont spot that needs adgustring. Players dont notice the rareness of drops as the bots are farming them indistrial style, so the devs never knows they should increase the drop rate for real players. A game that alows bots becomes dependant on bots. Its that simple.

[Falconeer]

The problem for me on Bots is that they change the envoronment of the game around them. People dont spot the killer grind of a game becasue players are using bots to level while they are asleep, so the devs dont spot that needs adgustring. Players dont notice the rareness of drops as the bots are farming them indistrial style, so the devs never knows they should increase the drop rate for real players. A game that alows bots becomes dependant on bots. Its that simple.

This is true. Botted chars got to level 50 much faster than legit ones in Aion, and they keep doing it. Now that for certain gives Devs the wrong idea about the leveling curve of their game.

[Nebu]

This is true. Botted chars got to level 50 much faster than legit ones in Aion, and they keep doing it. Now that for certain gives Devs the wrong idea about the leveling curve of their game.

The mere existence of bots should tell the devs even more about their game. 

- Combat is easily macroed

- Players would rather buy their way past content than endure/enjoy it.

- Players don't value the ride to the endgame as much as the endgame itself.

- Etc. 

[Falconeer]

GM setting fire to goldsellers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFfy90w_C9A&feature=player_embedded

[01101010]

GM setting fire to goldsellers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFfy90w_C9A&feature=player_embedded

I can see that novelty wearing thin very soon...

[Threash]

I thought pikachu shot lightning not fire.

[Kageru]

Remembered the other thing I was interested in. The plan was to have an NPC race to help control the effects of faction population imbalance. It seemed a bit unlikely to me, but how's it working in practice? Or is it still too early for that to become an issue.

[Threash]

Sometimes the npcs come and take over one sides fort, but there really isn't much of an imbalance in the first place.

[Kageru]

Interesting. I guess them being a bit hard-core about population caps on launch is paying off. Or maybe since one side can't really attack the enemies home-town it's just less of an issue.

[Shatter]

Interesting. I guess them being a bit hard-core about population caps on launch is paying off. Or maybe since one side can't really attack the enemies home-town it's just less of an issue.

Until the expansion when you can assault cities :)

[Draegan]

Interesting. I guess them being a bit hard-core about population caps on launch is paying off. Or maybe since one side can't really attack the enemies home-town it's just less of an issue.

Until the expansion when you can assault cities :)

Not really.

[Falconeer]

Well fuck