I think I am going to kill myself

[Abagadro]

This is in the WSOP sattelite on Empire. The top two finishers get a $12k package to the 2005 WSOP. I am FabAb1.


***** Hand History for Game 1261281670 *****
4000/8000 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (Limit) (Tournament 7658330)  - Sun Dec 05 02:29:25 EST 2004
Table $12,000 WSOP TV Star(141875) Table 1 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: KINGRUDDY (127622)
Seat 4: JackHerer7 (93121)
Seat 5: FabAb1 (32257)
FabAb1  posts small blind (2000)
KINGRUDDY  posts big blind (4000)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to FabAb1 [ 9s, 9d ]
JackHerer7 folds.
FabAb1 raises (6000) to 8000
KINGRUDDY calls (4000)
** Dealing Flop ** :  [ 3h, Qc, 7d ]
FabAb1 bets (4000)
KINGRUDDY calls (4000)
** Dealing Turn ** :  [ 4h ]
FabAb1 bets (8000)
KINGRUDDY raises (16000) to 16000
FabAb1 raises (12257) to 20257
FabAb1 is all-In.
KINGRUDDY calls (4257)
** Dealing River ** :  [ 8d ]
Creating Main Pot with $64514 with FabAb1
** Summary **
Main Pot: 64514 |
Board: [ 3h Qc 7d 4h 8d  ]
KINGRUDDY balance 159879, bet 32257, collected 64514, net +32257 [ 4s 4d ] [ three of a kind, fours -- Qc,8d,4s,4d,4h ]
JackHerer7 balance 93121, didn't bet (folded)
FabAb1 balance 0, lost 32257 [ 9s 9d ] [ a pair of nines -- Qc,9s,9d,8d,7d ]

[schild]

uh. Jesus. Do you want us to set up a paypal link for u?

[Abagadro]

Please don't mock my pain.

[Shavnir]

Sell your sigline as advertising space.

[Hanzii]

32257

as in dollars? Real money? Not monopoly?

[Madman]

Sorry to see that Abagadro, but honestly you should have known better. From what I have seen in the old poker threads, you are a better poker player than that and you should have seen the trap coming. You should have definately been thinking he hit a set when he doubles your bet on the turn.

It has been a while since I have played poker, but you probably should have either raised bigger pre-flop, or pushed it hard on the flop to spook him and get him out before he can hit his set.

[Murgos]

32257

as in dollars? Real money? Not monopoly?

No, tournament money. The winner got $12,000 real money.

Well actually a $12,000 package to teh WSOP.  WSOP entry is 10 grand and then the other 2 g's are probably hotel, food and airfair.

[SirBruce]

I don't understand why you bet $8000 after the Turn when you only had 1 pair.  Were you just doubling your bet every round?  Seems to be if you wanted to project strength, you should have done it after the flop and make him think you have 3 Queens.

Bruce

[Dark Vengeance]

I don't understand why you bet $8000 after the Turn when you only had 2 pair.

He didn't have 2 pair. He had pocket 9s. That's 1 pair.

Though I think looking at it that Ab should have bet stronger pre-flop, or bet much stronger before the turn. Hindsight being 20/20 of course.

Once the turn hit, it was all over. Once he made his set, he was going to put Ab for a decision for his entire stack. And he had a big enough stack to do so without much worry.

Bring the noise.
Cheers..............

[Abagadro]

People. Look at the top of the HH. It was a LIMIT tourney. I bet all I could at every street. When he raised me on the turn, I had no choice at that point as I was completely pot committed and would only have had 1.5 BB left, three handed, which is basically being broke so it was do or die. If it had been NL I would have pushed preflop and likely been called as he had me covered 4-1 and only had to put in another 24k so result would have likely been the same.

I played the hand just fine and he got lucky with a 22-1 shot on the turn. Its the beauty of the big stack and the curse of the short stack.  It sucked big time although I did win 650 bucks when I was only into it for 11 as I had won a satellite to get into it in the first place.

[Dark Vengeance]

By the way, can I borrow $639??

Bring the noise.
Cheers............

[SirBruce]

I don't understand why you bet $8000 after the Turn when you only had 2 pair.

He didn't have 2 pair. He had pocket 9s. That's 1 pair.

Yes, that's what I meant, and I corrected my previous post.  Question still stands.

Though I think looking at it that Ab should have bet stronger pre-flop, or bet much stronger before the turn. Hindsight being 20/20 of course.

Once the turn hit, it was all over. Once he made his set, he was going to put Ab for a decision for his entire stack. And he had a big enough stack to do so without much worry.

I quote agree; he had Ab in a vice simply because of the cards.  But I think Ab should have limited the damage by not betting so strongly we had had almost nothing, and by folding when he got pressured.  Could his opponent have been bluffing, too?  Sure, but I wouldn't want to wager that much on a pair of 9s.

Bruce

[SirBruce]

People. Look at the top of the HH. It was a LIMIT tourney. I bet all I could at every street.

Right.  You shouldn't have bet so much after the turn.  Maybe checked.  Or bet 4.  8 was too much.

 When he raised me on the turn, I had no choice at that point as I was completely pot committed and would only have had 1.5 BB left, three handed, which is basically being broke so it was do or die.

Well, if you hadn't bet so much, you would have had lost less.  You shouldn't have pot committed on a pair of fucking nines.

 If it had been NL I would have pushed preflop and likely been called as he had me covered 4-1 and only had to put in another 24k so result would have likely been the same.

I played the hand just fine and he got lucky with a 22-1 shot on the turn. Its the beauty of the big stack and the curse of the short stack.  It sucked big time although I did win 650 bucks when I was only into it for 11 as I had won a satellite to get into it in the first place.

You can't blame it on the turn.  Look at the flop - there's a queen.  He could have had pocket anything greater than your nines, or numerous possible 3 of a kind.  When the turn came and you STILL didn't have ny help for your hand, you should have held back.  You didn't, and got caught.  Yes, he got lucky, because he actually only had pocket 4s, but you still should have played more more intelligently.

Bruce

[Abagadro]

Bruce, just stop. It is abundantly clear you don't know anything about poker (I can't "bet less on the turn" it is LIMIT poker you dope), so don't try to analyze the hand.

Poket 9s 3-handed that late in a tourney is an absolute monster and when you only have 4BB it is a no-brainer. Hell, Raymer won 5 million dollars with pocket 8s. One overcard is not going to scare me off and if he had a higher PP he would have 3-bet preflop.  Checking the turn is an invitation to get bluffed and I'm basically committed to this hand the minute I decide to play it pre-flop.  If anyone with actaul big-time tourney experience wants to criticize my play,  I would discuss it. You are not it.

[SirBruce]

Bruce, just stop. It is abundantly clear you don't know anything about poker (I can't "bet less on the turn" it is LIMIT poker you dope), so don't try to analyze the hand.

Abagadro, just stop.  It is abundantly clear I know more about poker than you, since you lost your cash and I didn't.  As for it being LIMIT poker, I didn't realize you meant fixed-bet.  There are plenty of LIMIT games that simply cap how large a bet can be.  If you had been more clear, I would have analyzed the hand better.

So, now knowing that you had a fixed-bet, then you sholdn't have bet at all.  It was stupid to take that chance.

Poket 9s 3-handed that late in a tourney is an absolute monster and when you only have 4BB it is a no-brainer.

Wrong.  You need to understand there's a difference between "monster" strong hands, hands you can play under the right circumstances, and hands you shouldn't play at all.  Pocket 9s is never a "monster" hand.

Checking the turn is an invitation to get bluffed and I'm basically committed to this hand the minute I decide to play it pre-flop.

Yes, that was your problem.  You were so committed you refused to acknowledge the cards on the table.  I agree, you were short stacked, but that's no excuse to go out on a bad play.  Yes, checking leaves you open to being bluffed, but that's okay -- every hand isn't a winner, and you can't play every hand to the hilt.

If anyone with actaul big-time tourney experience wants to criticize my play,  I would discuss it. You are not it.

Then why are you here?  Go cry somewhere else.

Bruce

[Abagadro]

Ok big guy. Let's do this.  I will open a private table at Empire and we can each put $2000.00 in.  We play until one of us is broke. You can pick the format.

What do you say?

BTW, anyone who has played more than 10 hands of poker knows what 4000/8000 limit poker means as far as bets and frankly there is no such game (outside of your basement apparently) where there is just an upper "limit" to a bet but you can bet anything below that.

[Margalis]

You made a good play, bad result. Bruce needs to shut the fuck up. (As usual) There are no spread bet fixed hold-em games anywhere online as far as I know, certainly not as a qualifier to a major tournament. When someone says limit you think fixed bet unless specifically told otherwise if you know ANYTHING about poker at all.

It was the right play, pot committed you have to push all in.

Strangely enough, in 10 minutes I am playing in a satellite where top 4 make it to the WPT in the Bahamas. I got there by placing top 2 in a free super-satellite.

I had pretty good luck all tourney and then when it was down to 3 people I lost my TT to 99 and was suddenly at 1/4 the 2nd place stack. Was able to battle back and finish top 2 - god I felt like screaming when the guy flopped a 9.

I totally suck at limit, I just can't do anything at all. Limit hold-em just takes some skill I don't have for whatever reason. (As opposed to stud where I can do fine)

[Abagadro]

Good luck in your WPT satellite Margalis.  My limit tourney game is coming a long a lot better of late. The key is to basically never limp or smooth call unless you are trapping. You basically need to be extremely patient and pound the crap out of good cards preflop.  I think Sklansky's Gap Concept works actually better in limit than NL so you may want to check that out.

[plangent]

After reading this thread, I'm pretty sure the only game of chance Bruce needs to be playing right now is Russian Roulette.

[Margalis]

Update: Second hand of the tourney I lose to a rivered straight against my 2 pair for about half my chips. After the first hour I am looking pretty anemic, but the blinds are slower than in a super-satellite so I can still be a bit patient. Not enough in the pre-flop pots to make it worth it to gamble on an all in, just sitting back and breaking even...

[Abagadro]

Is this on stars? If so and you get deeper tell me what table you are at and I will come sweat you.

[Madman]

Yeah, I didn't notice it was limit poker because I am so used to you playing NL poker. You did the right thing and got caught between a rock and a hard place.

After you put in that much money you pretty much have to keep going on the hand even though you know you are behind. You are also completely right to say that pocket 9s is a monster hand in a 3 hand game.

Good play, bad results.

[Margalis]

Well, I'm out.

I was able to double up and was in mediocre shape for a while, then hit a run of absolutely terrible cards. I was hovering at about 1/2 the average stack size for a while.

Finally, I get KK and raise all-in and get two callers. They both have AK. That's really one of the best scenarios I could hope for, I have no kings left but they are both drawing to only 2 aces.

Of course you can guess what showed up on the flop.

At that point if I had tripled up I would have been right back in it...got my money in getting 3-1 on it as a heavy favorite, just didn't work out.

[Abagadro]

That blows. I had a similar hand in last night's 5k guaranteed. 39 left, 30 get paid but I am a bit short. Guy goes all-in with about the same size stack, I call him with KK. He turns over AJo and the flop and turn are all bricks. I get this sense of dread and the river turns over the A.  Cruel game.

[Margalis]

AJ is one of my least favorite hands. So easy to trap yourself and get outkicked. It's one of those hands that will either win you a small pot or lose you a big one. When I get AJ in early position of a NL tournament I often don't have any idea what to do.

[SirBruce]

Ok big guy. Let's do this.  I will open a private table at Empire and we can each put $2000.00 in.  We play until one of us is broke. You can pick the format.

What do you say?

I say you must really have an inferiority complex to be so desperate as to try to make yourself feel superior by beating me in one game of poker.  I guess my previous comments cut deeper than I expected.  Sorry for touching a nerve.

Bruce

[schild]

Bruce, it's abundantly clear you are being a tool. Stfu, thx.

[Abagadro]

I actually just wanted to pick up an easy two grand.

[Margalis]

Bruce this is moronic. Anyone who knows anything about poker knows you are full of shit. Abagadro and I are talking about qualifying for major tournaments and you don't even know the rules, yet your nonsensical advice somehow cuts to the bone...seriously it's hard to appear more stupid than you are right now. What's your football advice, hide the football up a cheerleader's skirt and have her prance to the end zone undetected for eleventy runs?

[plangent]

What's your football advice, hide the football up a cheerleader's skirt and have her prance to the end zone undetected for eleventy runs?

GENIUS!!!

[Paelos]

Sorry about that dude, that's the harsh reality of limit that I can't stand sometimes. I really hate having my hands tied on bets that let people into the hand when I could easily dominate them after the flop. It especially pisses me off on flush draws when I've got top pair or something. If limit is your thing though, keep at it, you made it far in that one. Poker is a lifelong pursuit, not a quick hit. You'll learn a lot from getting that close in the long run.

I'm heading to Vegas this next weekend, and I'm looking to get in on a few tournaments. I only like No-limit, and I prefer freeze-outs or rebuys with limits. I don't want to get into a bankroll fight. Anybody have any recommendations on the best places for weekend tournaments in Vegas? I'd appreciate any input. Thanks.

[SirBruce]

Bruce this is moronic. Anyone who knows anything about poker knows you are full of shit. Abagadro and I are talking about qualifying for major tournaments and you don't even know the rules

But that's just it... I do know the rules, at least as Abagadro has related them.  Again, I have to explain to you that limit poker doesn't always mean every bet is fixed.  I can't help it if that's the only format you've played; there are many others.

So, knowing the rules as I do, I made my comment: check or fold.  He bet, and he lost, with a pair of nines.  My advice: don't bet so aggressively with nines when the turn offers you no help.

Now, you can disagree with that advice all you want -- but don't pretend like I don't know what the bet was, simply because I made a mistake before.  I'm not the one who lost.

Even I just wanted to make silly comments, I would quote The Gambler.

Bruce

[Paelos]

Lets ignore Bruce now and see if you can answer my question.

Vegas, baby, Vegas!

[Abagadro]

Sorry about that dude, that's the harsh reality of limit that I can't stand sometimes. I really hate having my hands tied on bets that let people into the hand when I could easily dominate them after the flop. It especially pisses me off on flush draws when I've got top pair or something. If limit is your thing though, keep at it, you made it far in that one. Poker is a lifelong pursuit, not a quick hit. You'll learn a lot from getting that close in the long run.

I'm heading to Vegas this next weekend, and I'm looking to get in on a few tournaments. I only like No-limit, and I prefer freeze-outs or rebuys with limits. I don't want to get into a bankroll fight. Anybody have any recommendations on the best places for weekend tournaments in Vegas? I'd appreciate any input. Thanks.

I prefer no limit as well. I actually thought this was a no limit tourney when I qualified for it via a no limit satellite and was 10 hands into it (when I finally got a hand to play and went to raise it 4BB) that I realized it wasn't, but oh well.  I actually suspect the hand would have gone the same in NL considering the opponant and stack size. He really got absolutely lucky to get the seat. I actually had a larger stack than him with 5 players left. The guy not in the final hand had the big stack. Coming out of the break, three of the remaining 5 basically went all-in preflop and on the flop with 3-bets and the guy who busted me had AA. He had AA again two hands later and took some off the big stack to get his huge lead (he actually misplayed them badly or could have extracted quite a bit more).  3-handed with blinds that big it's basically a crap shoot and I came out the short-end.

As far as tourneys in Vegas, I know the Mandalay has them around noon on some days and I've heard the Orleans has some. I'd go post this question over on the B&M Cardroom board at twoplustwo.com. You will get answers from the locals.

It's so hard to ignore Bruce's complete idiocy. I guess that is what makes a good troll. The posts are so stupid that you almost can't walk away from them.

The offer of a heads-up match is still open.

[HaemishM]

The only thing I can understand about this thread (not knowing shit about poker) is that Aba lost a shitton of money and Bruce is being a dick.