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Author Topic: I think I am going to kill myself  (Read 37119 times)
Madman
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Posts: 143


Reply #70 on: December 07, 2004, 10:28:00 AM

Holy christ, I am not even as weak tight as Bruce. I probably would have played that hand quite similar to Abagadro. In fact due to these new posts I deposited 50 bucks back into Poker Stars and it is up to just over 90 now after a few tournaments.

I tend to stick with $5 or $10 SnG's, but maybe I should switch over to micro/low limit ring games. I am sure I could make some decent money there as long as I kept my wits about me.

About the only thing I might have done is made a slightly bigger raise pre-flop, perhaps up around 100-120. Of course that might force everyone out right there, but it might also get someone holding a weak pair to fold out while keeping in people who have something like KQ, QJ, etc. A larger bet on the flop might have convinced him you had the top set, but even then he might have stuck around. Naturally once the turn hits both of you are sticking around until the very end.

I can understand the guy's play, sometimes it is too easy to get caught up in thinking about positions. It looks to be fairly early in the game (based on the 10/20 blinds), so it isn't costing him too much to look at the flop. If he hits it on the flop he can stick around and if he doesn't then it is easy to lay it down. I would probably take a look at the flop for the raise you put up even under the gun, but I tend to play a little loose sometimes. I never would have played that hand later in the game when the blinds (and raises) were higher, but I think for the 10/20, 15/30 and possibly 25/50 range it isn't that bad of a play.
Paelos
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #71 on: December 07, 2004, 10:32:12 AM

I agree with Madman, it was simply a looser play than normal. Most people that are tight players throw away pairs 77 and under early on. I do it quite frequently. However, sometimes for agressive play you can come out swinging with a 10x BB bet if you want to collect the limpers. It depends on the table really. That's best for passive groups. There a lot of ways Aces get cracked, if there are enough bets already on the table i simply collect what's mine pre-flop. If someone is stupid enough to call I double up.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Abagadro
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Reply #72 on: December 07, 2004, 10:33:53 AM

I thought about my flop bet being too small, but lately every time I raise above 4BB I get everyone to fold which is a disaster with AA.  I doubt a bigger flop bet pushes him off a set.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Margalis
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Reply #73 on: December 07, 2004, 10:35:35 AM

Quote from: SirBruce

Really?  Even if he had gone all in?  Then you might have gone all in on the turn yourself before someone catches some help on the river.  It's rarely a good idea to play a hand without regard to the betting, but I guess that way you never get bluffed. :P


Bruce stop being retarded. The 2 was the best possible turn card Ab could hit other than an Ace. When you have a great hand, you try to extract maximum value. There was NO river card possible that would allow anyone to catch up other than another 4 of a kind for somebody. YOU WANT SOMEONE TO CATCH HELP. With a hand like that you are hoping someone can make a higher two pair, a mid set, or flush, a straight.

If you are way ahead in a hand (or think you are) you want to give people a chance to make something. That's how you extract value for your hand.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
sidereal
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Reply #74 on: December 07, 2004, 10:35:42 AM

Jesus, Ab.  Find another hobby.  I hear shuffleboard is soothing.

But at least you got the bad beat bonus, right?   Right?

THIS IS THE MOST I HAVE EVERY WANTED TO GET IN TO A BETA
Abagadro
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Reply #75 on: December 07, 2004, 10:39:14 AM

This hobby is quite profitable (I'm up around 18k in the last two years playing LL and small buy-in tourneys).

I only posted these two hands because of the brutality of the loss for the first and the wild beat on the second (if I had played that at the casino I usually play at I would have won 50% of the bad beat jackpot).

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Margalis
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Reply #76 on: December 07, 2004, 10:40:11 AM

Quote from: Abagadro
I thought about my flop bet being too small, but lately every time I raise above 4BB I get everyone to fold which is a disaster with AA.  I doubt a bigger flop bet pushes him off a set.


Probably no bet would push him off a set, including an all-in. He could easily think you have AK or AQ.

I tend to do better in tournaments than cash tables because I concentrate harder. I really pay attention to my opponents and the fixed duration really helps. I find at cash tables my attention will wander and I get sloppy.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Abagadro
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Reply #77 on: December 07, 2004, 10:42:33 AM

Woops, I meant thought about my PRE-flop bet being too small.  On the flop I was trying to get some money into the pot and  I agree nothing was moving him off his set.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
WayAbvPar
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Reply #78 on: December 07, 2004, 10:44:11 AM

Quote from: Paelos
Quote from: Abagadro
Once the flop hit I was going to the felt no matter what (and would have pre-flop too if anyone came over the top of me). I can't believe the guy played poket 2s UTG against a PF raiser.


You are right on the first count, you would have taken that one to the house regardless of anything unless an obvious flush is sitting out there. As to the second count, I think your disbelief is unfounded. Your raise was 3x a relatively small BB that was basically 1/100th of the caller's stack. I call that everytime with any pockets at all on the chance you hit one on the flop. If you don't or there are significant overcards you toss it, but if you flop a low set you can milk it for serious cash.

EDIT: sorry looking at the big stack, it was 1/25th of the stack who won on the raise. The point is still vaild.


If you do this without regard to the size of the pot, you are screwing yourself longterm. You flop a set about 11% of the time; if the pot isn't giving you at least 5 or 6 to 1 on your preflop bet (you can take lower odds because of the extra chips you will likely pick up post flop if your hand hits), then you are costing yourself money.

In a tournament, every chip is valuable (since you don't get to play anymore if you run out), so playing without regard to the size of the pot is reckless.

Quote
Really? Even if he had gone all in? Then you might have gone all in on the turn yourself before someone catches some help on the river. It's rarely a good idea to play a hand without regard to the betting, but I guess that way you never get bluffed. :P



There is exactly 1 hand that Ab has to fear here- the odds that his opponent holds the ONLY HAND (out of 169 possible starters) that beats him are astronomical. I go broke here every single time; the VAST majority of the time this hand is a winner.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
SirBruce
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WWW
Reply #79 on: December 07, 2004, 10:44:29 AM

Quote from: Abagadro

Based on what you have said in this thread, you would be what is known in tourney parlance as someone who sees "monsters under the bed," which is recipe for weak-tight, losing play.


No, I'm really more tight-agressive.  But agressive doesn't mean going all the way with every hand.  When you've learned that, your play will improve.

Bruce
sidereal
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Reply #80 on: December 07, 2004, 10:45:31 AM

Anyone know if it's possible to get a hold of the WRGPT software?

I think it's time to put the electronic money where the electronic mouth is and get a f13 tournament rolling with the power of email.

THIS IS THE MOST I HAVE EVERY WANTED TO GET IN TO A BETA
SirBruce
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Reply #81 on: December 07, 2004, 10:46:20 AM

Quote from: Madman
Holy christ, I am not even as weak tight as Bruce. I probably would have played that hand quite similar to Abagadro.


What are you babbling about?  I too said I would have played to hand like Ab.  But I wouldn't have been willing to go all the way just on the flop, as Ab said he would have.

Bruce
WayAbvPar
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Reply #82 on: December 07, 2004, 10:49:41 AM

Quote from: SirBruce
Quote from: Abagadro

Based on what you have said in this thread, you would be what is known in tourney parlance as someone who sees "monsters under the bed," which is recipe for weak-tight, losing play.


No, I'm really more tight-agressive.  But agressive doesn't mean going all the way with every hand.  When you've learned that, your play will improve.

Bruce


ROFL!

Bruce, your idea of waiting for the mortal nuts before risking any chips will get you absolutely destroyed against anyone who has a clue on how poker is played.

I am all for an F13 tourney- we can pick a time and all pile into an SnG. If everyone is waiting and ready, just wait for the first 'new' game to start and all pile in ASAFP. I only play on PokerStars these days- I pulled the rest of my money out of my account on Party Poker because their shitty CS department pissed me off.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
SirBruce
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WWW
Reply #83 on: December 07, 2004, 10:52:19 AM

Quote from: Margalis

If you are way ahead in a hand (or think you are) you want to give people a chance to make something. That's how you extract value for your hand.


No shit, sherlock.  Too bad that has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

But fine, play it your way -- always play the odds and never concern yourself with the other guy's play.  See how far you get.

Bruce
Abagadro
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Reply #84 on: December 07, 2004, 10:55:25 AM

Can you set up private tables on stars? I don't play on there, but have an account that I can dump some money in if I need to.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Paelos
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #85 on: December 07, 2004, 10:57:16 AM

I'd be in, I'd lose, but I'll play for fun.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
SirBruce
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Reply #86 on: December 07, 2004, 10:58:40 AM

Quote from: WayAbvPar

Bruce, your idea of waiting for the mortal nuts before risking any chips will get you absolutely destroyed against anyone who has a clue on how poker is played.


I guess I'd get destroyed as often as Ab, then, since I said I'd play the hand like he did.  Er, except for a hypothetical situation, wherein I wouldn't have lost so much money.  But, sure, believe what you want.  I should have known better than to think someone crying about their losses on a board would actually want some help rather than an ego-stroking, "No, you did everything perfect, you should be A-Number-One!"

Bruce
WayAbvPar
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Reply #87 on: December 07, 2004, 10:59:45 AM

Quote from: Abagadro
Can you set up private tables on stars? I don't play on there, but have an account that I can dump some money in if I need to.


I believe that Stars support can grant a user the ability to set up private tournaments- make a deposit and email them to see what it takes. I would do it, but I am at work for another 6 hours. Bleah.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
DarkDryad
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da hizzookup


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Reply #88 on: December 07, 2004, 11:05:12 AM

Dont remember but I'll check it out tonight and well set up a time. I cashed out not to long ago but I'll be glad to bump a few bucks in there to be able to play. So put me on the list.

BWL is funny tho.  It's like watching a Special Needs school take a field trip to a minefield.
Abagadro
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Reply #89 on: December 07, 2004, 11:10:08 AM

I'm not crying or asking for help you dumbass. These are BAD BEAT stories for everyone to enjoy.  There really isn't much to say about them. The idiocy of your posts has been what has generated the discussion.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
UD_Delt
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Reply #90 on: December 07, 2004, 11:33:49 AM

The last bloggers tourney was on Stars. I'm pretty sure at this point they will allow anyone to set up a private tourney. It just takes a phone call.

I guess I'm going to have to get on the ball and finish off one of my bonuses so I can pull out some money from either Party or UB. My Stars account is currently empty.
Ardent
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Reply #91 on: December 07, 2004, 12:37:47 PM

Fuck the BCS ... what I really want to watch this year is Abagadro and Bruce heads-up in a Caveman Lawyer vs. "Tight Aggressive" Poker Thunderdome.

Please post the date and time here so we can all watch. I'm dead serious.

Um, never mind.
Abagadro
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Reply #92 on: December 07, 2004, 12:46:02 PM

My $2k heads-up offer still stands.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Margalis
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Reply #93 on: December 07, 2004, 12:51:04 PM

Quote from: Abagadro
Woops, I meant thought about my PRE-flop bet being too small.  On the flop I was trying to get some money into the pot and  I agree nothing was moving him off his set.


It's funny, because when I first responded I said that I always raise a standard amount pre-flop. Then I re-read your post and it said on the flop.

But yeah, if I am coming in for a raise it's always the same amount, adjusted upwards for number of callers.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Abagadro
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Reply #94 on: December 07, 2004, 01:02:38 PM

Here, I've found something to relieve the tension while playing poker.

http://uk.download.yahoo.com/ne/fu/attachments/bubblewrap.swf

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
DarkDryad
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da hizzookup


WWW
Reply #95 on: December 08, 2004, 06:13:12 AM

Ok that has to be one of the coolest pages Ive seen in a while.

BWL is funny tho.  It's like watching a Special Needs school take a field trip to a minefield.
WayAbvPar
Moderator
Posts: 19268


Reply #96 on: December 08, 2004, 09:10:13 AM

Jumped into the $2 multi on Stars last night while playing some SnGs with a couple of buddies. Held a TON of cards, withstood more than a few bad beats, and ended up in 8th place. If 2 horrible rivers don't eviscerate me earlier, I would have won it going away. 'Twas fun, however.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
Madman
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Reply #97 on: December 08, 2004, 10:33:41 AM

Haha, I just started a little $5 SnG a few minutes ago and this is the very first hand dealt. It couldn't be any more perfect.

Code:
PokerStars Game #936960468: Tournament #3855973, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2004/12/08 - 13:33:57 (ET)
Table '3855973 1' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: TheMadMadman (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: stupidbash (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: SugarBear (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: anna42 (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: Tink11 (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: yyrkoon (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: in4birdie (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: cr66 (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: scubadu (1500 in chips)
stupidbash: posts small blind 10
SugarBear: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TheMadMadman [Td Th]
anna42: calls 20
Tink11: folds
yyrkoon: calls 20
in4birdie: calls 20
cr66: folds
scubadu: folds
TheMadMadman: raises 60 to 80
stupidbash: folds
SugarBear: calls 60
anna42: calls 60
yyrkoon: calls 60
in4birdie: folds
*** FLOP *** [2s Ts 2d]
SugarBear: checks
anna42: bets 100
yyrkoon: folds
TheMadMadman: raises 300 to 400
SugarBear: folds
anna42: raises 300 to 700
TheMadMadman: raises 720 to 1420 and is all-in
anna42: calls 720 and is all-in
anna42 said, "nh"
*** TURN *** [2s Ts 2d] [9s]
*** RIVER *** [2s Ts 2d 9s] [3h]
TheMadMadman said, "ty"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
anna42: shows [2c Kc] (three of a kind, Deuces)
TheMadMadman: shows [Td Th] (a full house, Tens full of Deuces)
TheMadMadman collected 3190 from  pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3190 | Rake 0
Board [2s Ts 2d 9s 3h]
Seat 1: TheMadMadman (button) showed [Td Th] and won (3190) with a full house, Tens full of Deuces
Seat 2: stupidbash (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: SugarBear (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: anna42 showed [2c Kc] and lost with three of a kind, Deuces
Seat 5: Tink11 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: yyrkoon folded on the Flop
Seat 7: in4birdie folded before Flop
Seat 8: cr66 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: scubadu folded before Flop (didn't bet)


I couldn't believe it when she reraised me. I had her pegged on the 2 when she came out with the 100 bet and when she reraised I just had to go all in. I couldn't believe it when she actually called, I was damn near orgasmic.
Abagadro
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Reply #98 on: December 08, 2004, 10:39:07 AM

I've won a couple of SnG's, but since Saturday I'm going nowhere in the MTT. I think I may be on a bit of a weird gun-shy semi-tilt where I am only playing uber-tight starters but then overplaying them when I get them.  Time for a break from tourneys perhaps.


EDIT: Madman, nice hand. But weren't you worried about the quads? /sarcasm

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Madman
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Reply #99 on: December 08, 2004, 10:50:08 AM

Quote from: Abagadro
I've won a couple of SnG's, but since Saturday I'm going nowhere in the MTT. I think I may be on a bit of a weird gun-shy semi-tilt where I am only playing uber-tight starters but then overplaying them when I get them.  Time for a break from tourneys perhaps.


EDIT: Madman, nice hand. But weren't you worried about the quads? /sarcasm


You know I think that long break I had was really good for me. I am playing a bit better hands and I am playing them more instinctively. Overall I think I am playing slightly better than I did before, but not by all that much.

You know I was thinking about quads when I went all in, but there is no way in hell that it was going to stop me.

Of course I spoke a bit too soon. I just went up against  AA with AKc  and of course lost. It wasn't too bad of a hit, but I let the small stack back into the game. The small stack went all in first and I pushed all in to isolate him, in total I probably lost about 600 or so on the hand, I will have to check it later. The bitch of it was 2 clubs hit on the flop and naturally I couldn't catch another club.

edit - Haha, I just got hit by another person with AA. This time I had AQo in middle position and raised, the button (small stack), reraised all in for about 300 more than my raise. I naturally had to call and naturally I lost.

edit 2 - I swear to god, I can't fucking buy a flush. I have had a 4 flush on the flop at least 5-6 times this SnG and I haven't hit a single flush.
sidereal
Contributor
Posts: 1712


Reply #100 on: December 08, 2004, 10:52:36 AM

Yes, as soon as she re-raised you should have mucked it, you fool.

THIS IS THE MOST I HAVE EVERY WANTED TO GET IN TO A BETA
Margalis
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Reply #101 on: December 08, 2004, 11:08:08 AM

I took a break for a while, before I began my "grind up from $5 experiment." Since that break ended I've done quite well at MTTs. One of the reasons is that I've been abusing positional advantage much more strongly. From the first few seats I'll often fold AJ at a full table, depending on the table. TJ Cloutier said it was ok, and it seems to work.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
WayAbvPar
Moderator
Posts: 19268


Reply #102 on: December 08, 2004, 02:27:10 PM

Quote
EDIT: Madman, nice hand. But weren't you worried about the quads? /sarcasm


Heh. I flopped quad Qs last night, and had a guy bet into me twice. If I can dig the hand history up I will post it...I was giggling like a fool.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
Abagadro
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Posts: 12227

Possibly the only user with more posts in the Den than PC/Console Gaming.


Reply #103 on: December 09, 2004, 10:03:30 PM

Woot, broke outta my slump. 3rd in the 5k gauranteed tonight. If I would have folded the last hand (i was WAAAAY short) I woulda snuck into second as the huge stack hit a set against the 2nd stack's AQ. I was first into the pot though with KJ.  Nice $534 payday on a 20+2 buyin.

Here was the hand:



***** Hand History for Game 1281873296 *****
3000/6000 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 7777344)  - Fri Dec 10 01:08:07 EST 2004
Table Thursday $5000 Guaranteed(151881) Table 1 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 4: FabAb1 (12068)
Seat 6: Pinneo (40690)
Seat 9: BoratDances (216242)
Pinneo  posts small blind (1500)
BoratDances  posts big blind (3000)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to FabAb1 [ Kh, Js ]
FabAb1 raises (12068) to 12068
FabAb1 is all-In.
Pinneo calls (10568)
FabAb1: time to double me up boys
BoratDances calls (9068)
Creating Main Pot with $36204 with FabAb1
** Dealing Flop ** :  [ 8s, 5s, 6h ]
FabAb1: or tripple
MisterAndrew: fab come on horse!
Pinneo bets (28622)
Pinneo is all-In.
BoratDances calls (28622)
** Dealing Turn ** :  [ Qd ]
MisterAndrew: GO FAB!
** Dealing River ** :  [ Ac ]
Creating Side Pot 1 with $57244 with Pinneo
** Summary **
Main Pot: 36204 | Side Pot 1: 57244 |
Board: [ 8s 5s 6h Qd Ac  ]
FabAb1 balance 0, lost 12068 [ Kh Js ] [ high card ace -- Ac,Kh,Qd,Js,8s ]
Pinneo balance 0, lost 40690 [ Ah Qc ] [ two pairs, aces and queens -- Ah,Ac,Qc,Qd,8s ]
BoratDances balance 269000, bet 40690, collected 93448, net +52758 [ 6c 6s ] [ three of a kind, sixes -- Ac,Qd,6c,6s,6h ]

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Dark Vengeance
Delinquents
Posts: 1210


Reply #104 on: December 10, 2004, 02:20:18 AM

Ab, seriously man, given your luck nowadays, you may want to just go ahead and consider it. My suggestion:



Yknow, just in case.

Bring the noise.
Cheers.............
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