Mass Effect 2 *spoilers around pg 29/30*

[TripleDES]

That's what I took away from what was presented in the games. Hell, the first time a geth and a quarian actually sit down (figuratively) and actually talk to each other happens in ME2 on the Normandy--and that only after a browbeating from Shepard.

Didn't Legion specifically say that the non-indoctrinated Geth are maintaining the Quarian planet for the return of "their creators"?!

[tmp]

Didn't Legion specifically say that the non-indoctrinated Geth are maintaining the Quarian planet for the return of "their creators"?!

Supposedly. Which is pants on head retarded plot development, even for sentient toasters.

[Ingmar]

That's not quite how I remember it - it sounded to me more like they were maintaining the buildings as kind of a cemetary monument sort of thing.

[lamaros]

That's not quite how I remember it - it sounded to me more like they were maintaining the buildings as kind of a cemetary monument sort of thing.

That's how I remember it.

[caladein]

I have put difficulty on easy in order to try and work out how to play ME1 and enjoy it. Impossible though. Too much blue. Too much shit combat. Too much useless inventory and equipment.

So I guess I have to figure out how these save game editors work so I can get my ME2 character fixed up right. I feel like such a sucker for giving a shit about this sort of stuff.

ME1 is kind of hard to get back into if you're at all picky about your shooters.

Save editors aren't too bad.  Easiest thing to do is find something on http://www.masseffectsaves.com/ you like and then copy your face and such over to that save.

Actually, "easiest" is to buy the Genesis comic DLC, but that doesn't cover everything if I remember right.

[lamaros]

Yeah. I was trying to take my ME2 save and put all the ME1 flags in to it, then import that, but it wasn't working for some reason.

So I'm trying the face copy method now. Missing out on some of the minor choices, but hopefully I can get over that.

[Sjofn]

That's what I took away from what was presented in the games. Hell, the first time a geth and a quarian actually sit down (figuratively) and actually talk to each other happens in ME2 on the Normandy--and that only after a browbeating from Shepard.

I imagine the geth shooting down every ship to cross the veil into "their" territory without asking any questions might have something to do with it.

The geth weren't doing anything hostile, but they were obviously sentient, TIME TO KILL THEM ALL. You know what? I would shoot anything organic coming at me after that too.

[Shrike]

That's not quite how I remember it - it sounded to me more like they were maintaining the buildings as kind of a cemetary monument sort of thing.

That's what I recall, mostly. They were sort of cleaning up after the party, but had no real plans for Rannoch. Legion waffled around about how they considered it a memorial to what happened. Kinda. Maybe. Still working on that concensus...

[tmp]

The geth weren't doing anything hostile, but they were obviously sentient, TIME TO KILL THEM ALL. You know what? I would shoot anything organic coming at me after that too.

While at the same time "restoring the homeworld of our creators for them" so they have place to settle again after the geth fuck off into sunset in their Dyson sphere?

[Ingmar]

The geth weren't doing anything hostile, but they were obviously sentient, TIME TO KILL THEM ALL. You know what? I would shoot anything organic coming at me after that too.

While at the same time "restoring the homeworld of our creators for them" so they have place to settle again after the geth fuck off into sunset in their Dyson sphere?

Again, that's not what Legion said they were doing.

[tmp]

Again, that's not what Legion said they were doing.

I don't know, that seems to be popular intrpretation on the official forums and i presume these guys talked with Legion more than i did.

Granted, i only dared to go like 3 pages deep in relevant thread, but it claimed stuff like:

"Legion actually says that they're only guarding it but have no intention of holding it away from the quarians"

... which well, just doesn't exactly fit with the whole shoot any meatbag crossing the perimeter behaviour.

[Ingmar]

He specifically likens their cleanup and maintenance of Rannoch to Arlington, Auschwitz, Tyne Cot, etc., and uses the word 'caretaker'. It's pretty clear he's talking about a monument, not something they expect to be resettled.

[Ironwood]

Dude.

Colonists on Spikes, Dude.

[Sjofn]

Those were the bugged geth.

[Ironwood]

On.

Spikes.


Legion was lucky I ONLY sent him through the steam vents at the end.

[lamaros]

It's a bit stupid how the games have decided to provide excuses for all the once-were-bad guys. Rachni bad? Nah, just corrupted by the reapers. Geth? Nah, turns out there are good Geth and bad Geth, and the bad ones were those that Saren/Reaper's used. Collectors? Nah, just indoctrinated by the Reapers... Sure, the Reapers were just meant to come about every 50,000 years, but now it turns out they're actually the source of all the ills going around. How handy that is for the upcoming game...

"Hey guys, looks like everyone is actually really cool, and it's only the Reapers we have to worry about. Teamwork! Yay!"

What's next, friendly Yahg? That the 'bad' Batarians are actually all outcasts from the now friendly and peace-loving main population?

I still prefer Legion to Thane, though. Maybe there aren't nice Geth after all, and Legion has just gone insane and become an individual.

(Also, anyone know of a way to get Jacob to lose loyalty, but still do his mission?)

[UnSub]

One personal ME lore gripe I had was the Shadow Broker going from a planned neutral force of covert information into an EVIL architect plotting everyone's doom for his profit.

I'm sure lines can be drawn between the two, but I didn't particularly enjoy that shift.

[Ironwood]

Hmmm.  When did that happen ?

I clearly need to replay.

[Lakov_Sanite]

You still never find out what happened to the REAL shadow broker, just the guy who took his place.

[Ratman_tf]

One personal ME lore gripe I had was the Shadow Broker going from a planned neutral force of covert information into an EVIL architect plotting everyone's doom for his profit.

I'm sure lines can be drawn between the two, but I didn't particularly enjoy that shift.

My disappointment is that the Shadow Broker was a boss fight. I'd much rather have fought a robot guard or a hired henchman.

[Mazakiel]

Wasn't there some sort of helper VI thing that had been helping Liara get up to speed on everything the Shadow Broker had going?  That could just be a clever AI in disguise using a series of 'Shadow Brokers' as the fall guys while it merrily continues along with what it's doing. 

[Lakov_Sanite]

Wasn't there some sort of helper VI thing that had been helping Liara get up to speed on everything the Shadow Broker had going?  That could just be a clever AI in disguise using a series of 'Shadow Brokers' as the fall guys while it merrily continues along with what it's doing. 

Yes,  I do believe they made it kind of ambiguous. The guy you fight really just took over the shadow brokers operation, supposedly.

[HaemishM]

"Hey guys, looks like everyone is actually really cool, and it's only the Reapers we have to worry about. Teamwork! Yay!"

No, that's not what's happening. They've made it quite clear that the Reapers are doing some seriously bad shit on a galactic scale, and fucking with a lot of races to accomplish this. Like God-level shit. But at the individual level, you still have individuals doing bad shit too - Mordin and his Genophage experiments, the wars started by the Krogan, the Batarian slave trade, all sorts of little things that only pale in comparison to the Reapers' evil in scale. Cerberus seems interested in doing Reaper scale bad shit in the name of "saving humanity" which is pretty evil as well. The individuals in your party, the ones that get along, those are the individual heroes - but many of the galaxy's inhabitants are more like Cerberus, out for their own good not the good of all.

[tmp]

He specifically likens their cleanup and maintenance of Rannoch to Arlington, Auschwitz, Tyne Cot, etc., and uses the word 'caretaker'. It's pretty clear he's talking about a monument, not something they expect to be resettled.

I found that conversation here.

While he does make the analogy, he chooses to entirely ignore the explanation such monuments are maintained so people can 'visit them and remember' which is something the geth themselves don't need and the 'creators' for which he claims 'perhaps the geth are doing it then' are actively prevented from doing. Unfortunately you can't press him on it by the looks of it, nor on his excuse that "both sides have to do their part to reach peace" which omits a little inconvenient fact the geth work actively against 'doing their part'.

[tmp]

What's next, friendly Yahg? That the 'bad' Batarians are actually all outcasts from the now friendly and peace-loving main population?

I like the idea of ME3 introducing Bali, cute batarian bisexual mercenary companion who will make every Shepard out there realize Batarians only need a little love to get along with everyone. 

[Merusk]

Can there really be such a thing as a 'cute' Batarian?

[Stormwaltz]

I'll just leave this here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TznrIkz7-rE&hd=1

Regardless of what the geth may or may not want, the geth are not stupid.

[tmp]

Regardless of what the geth may or may not want, the geth are not stupid.

I don't know. "The people we're at war with always attacked us when they thought they could win." Well, colour me surprised. And nevermind the geth themselves so far have shown the exact same behaviour since the war erupted, so how do they reflect on their own ability to establish and maintain peace, based on the same type of data?

[tmp]

Can there really be such a thing as a 'cute' Batarian?

Sure; needs accent, large eyes and to act adorably clumsy. Never failed in BioWare game yet.

[Sjofn]

Regardless of what the geth may or may not want, the geth are not stupid.

I don't know. "The people we're at war with always attacked us when they thought they could win." Well, colour me surprised. And nevermind the geth themselves so far have shown the exact same behaviour since the war erupted, so how do they reflect on their own ability to establish and maintain peace, based on the same type of data?

The quarians started it. It's kinda on them to prove they won't try the genocide thing again.

[Fordel]

Heck from the Geth perspective, the Quarians have been kidnapping Geth and dissecting them for study.

[tmp]

The quarians started it. It's kinda on them to prove they won't try the genocide thing again.

How are they supposed to prove it if the geth actively block any potential attempts of establishing communication, and don't try to establish any on their own?

Nevermind the geth claim to operate on data collected so far, and yet for supposed highly logical beings manage to ignore that the only aspect in the data they have which could be relevant to present situation is, it involves quarians. Or that nonsense how "the organics fear/hate them, it's their hardware error" kinda overlooking that hardware is ultimately governed by software, and that in turn operates on provided input... something they should know better than anyone, first-hand.

[Sjofn]

It's not like the quarians took one try at wiping them out and have been sending the geth fruit baskets ever since. I just really ... don't see how the geth are wrong here. They are well aware organics don't see them as people, but dangerous, out of control kill robots. It would be stupider if they weren't shooting at anyone coming near them.

[Ironwood]

Look at you chaps discussing this.

Mark of a great game.

[tmp]

They are well aware organics don't see them as people, but dangerous, out of control kill robots. It would be stupider if they weren't shooting at anyone coming near them.

Well honestly, but shooting anything that comes near isn't ever going to make the organics change their view on them as dangerous, out of controll kill robots, does it? I mean look what it took for the players to form a different view on the geth -- one geth that would actually talk to them rather than shoot on sight.