Blizzards New MMO

[Kageru]

The only real point of licensing an IP is to get noticed, and blizzard doesn't even remotely need that when they release their next MMORPG. Outside of that you gain some backstory 90% of which is lame and self-contradictory (eg. Marvel) and a huge bunch of limitations from both the IP owners and the fan expectations. It would also limit how far you can push the IP in terms of things like CCG's, books and comics. I would be amazed and disappointed if Blizzard did not spin an entirely original IP. They certainly have all the resources to do so and will be able to invent one that fully suits the kind of game they're making.

I also think they've been working on this for quite a while. If I had to guess as to where they set it I would doubt fantasy (since they have WoW) or far sci-fi (Starcraft) but a near sci-fi or present day game could be possible. Hellgate done right maybe.

[Triforcer]

I am really torn on whether this is going to go beyond the traditional DIKU mode.  On the one hand, you could argue that trying something bold like an MMOFPS is ok because its Blizzard and everyone will buy it (plus, you have less cannibalization of your existing WoW base if the new MMO is perceived as "WoW 2").

On the other hand, the suits and lawyers will say that since Blizzard does DIKU so well, why risk doing anything else?  EVERYONE will buy the new MMO and money hats will be had by all, while MMOFPS or MMORTS or whatnot might be epic fail.

 My money is on the suits and lawyers, but its a close call.

[gryeyes]

With WoW,Starcraft2 and Diablo 3 im sure the lawyers will be willing to let them splurge when developing their new title.

I wouldn't expect anything radical.

[Triforcer]

Oh I am sure the money will be there.  But I think the suits would have panicked at messing up a "sure thing" if the creative types came to them saying "lets do an MMOFPS!"

[Simond]

3. Vikings make sense.  Giant vikings is excessive, like the Death Knight Dragonball-Z cinematic at Light's Hope Chapel.

Viking Giants were one of the three main factions in the Everquest expansion WotLK is ripped off from 'inspired by'. The other two were ice-dwarves and various dragonflights based out of a temple with draconic necropoli nearby. There was also an out-of-place jungle-surrounded-by-tundra...and walrusmen, too. 

[Sheepherder]

There was also an out-of-place jungle-surrounded-by-tundra.

I asked my guild if anyone though that or Grizzly Hills was odd about a week ago.  Evidently growth past a well defined tree line doesn't strike anyone as odd.

[Oban]

Viking Giants were one of the three main factions in the Everquest expansion WotLK is ripped off from 'inspired by'. The other two were ice-dwarves and various dragonflights based out of a temple with draconic necropoli nearby. There was also an out-of-place jungle-surrounded-by-tundra...and walrusmen, too. 

Really, which expansion was this?

[Merusk]

Scars of Velious. Although I don't remember the ice giants there being Vikings, he's dead on with everything else.  To a degree I hadn't even considered until he mentioned it. That's hilarious.

Even moreso since that was about the time Tigole became well-known and moved on to Blizz.

[Lantyssa]

Everyone says they took EQ and made it better...

[Simond]

Scars of Velious. Although I don't remember the ice giants there being Vikings, he's dead on with everything else.  To a degree I hadn't even considered until he mentioned it. That's hilarious.

Even moreso since that was about the time Tigole became well-known and moved on to Blizz.

http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=5526
Viking-ish. Probably as close as Verant could get at the time.

[Delmania]

Everyone says they took EQ and made it better...

Who, WoW?  I always think WoW gave us a paradigm shift whereby rather than grinding mobs for levels and loot, you quest for it. They are both DIKU-style MMOs with a heavy emphasis on raiding, but really, a solo person in WoW can quest their way not only through the levels, but their entire end game can be questing.

[schild]

Everyone says they took EQ and made it better...

Who, WoW?  I always think WoW gave us a paradigm shift whereby rather than grinding mobs for levels and loot, you quest for it. They are both DIKU-style MMOs with a heavy emphasis on raiding, but really, a solo person in WoW can quest their way not only through the levels, but their entire end game can be questing.

Every diku game ever would've liked to have you quest from 1-Max. Writing Quests and doing all the work relative to them costs money. Lots of money. Money that didn't exist when Everquest came out.

Also, you're still grinding for levels and loot in WoW. You're just grinding quests instead of mobs. Which probably entails a lot more walking back and forth rather than just forth.

I'm not knocking WoW for this, good on them for doing it that way. But let's try to see the forest for the trees, please.

[Ratman_tf]

Everyone says they took EQ and made it better...

Who, WoW?  I always think WoW gave us a paradigm shift whereby rather than grinding mobs for levels and loot, you quest for it. They are both DIKU-style MMOs with a heavy emphasis on raiding, but really, a solo person in WoW can quest their way not only through the levels, but their entire end game can be questing.

Every diku game ever would've liked to have you quest from 1-Max. Writing Quests and doing all the work relative to them costs money. Lots of money. Money that didn't exist when Everquest came out.

As opposed to the graphics engine, database code, etc... which was free?

[Delmania]

As opposed to the graphics engine, database code, etc... which was free?

I think it's more the cost of hiring people to think about the quests and write them down. 

[Ghambit]

As opposed to the graphics engine, database code, etc... which was free?

I think it's more the cost of hiring people to think about the quests and write them down. 

Hence the reason why user-created quests are the way to go (ala Face of Mankind).  Have the higher-ups produce faction (or not) related quests for the underlings.  Higher-ups gain power/rep, underlings gain xp.  Cap the amount of quests able to be created and completed (minus quest chains) and voila.  No cost of hiring people and a simultaneously ever-evolving plethora of quests that are never the same.

I bet the entire system could be coded in a day, assuming there's an existing quest and rep. system in place.  (and yes, I've thought this through)

[Fordel]

Until it starts raining Penis.

[Ghambit]

Until it starts raining Penis.

no no no... the user wouldnt have access to any kind of assets that arent already dev-created.  Just simply a quest UI that allows others to accomplish predetermined goals of your choosing, complete with fancy enterable quest lore.  The flavor text is where it can get tricky, but that of course would have to be overseen by GMs.  (GASP)  Woah, a job GMs can ACTUALLY do!  [aside from spamming the usual custserve crap]

e.g. you're still killin boars, but instead of paying Tigole to write the quest, you're just letting your players do it.  The writers can use NPCs or kiosks (ala SWG) for quest turnin.  In a nutshell, you're basically turning the quest system into a crafting system, and vice versa.  Slick devs would interweave the economy into the thing.

[Delmania]

Hence the reason why user-created quests are the way to go (ala Face of Mankind).  Have the higher-ups produce faction (or not) related quests for the underlings.  Higher-ups gain power/rep, underlings gain xp.  Cap the amount of quests able to be created and completed (minus quest chains) and voila.  No cost of hiring people and a simultaneously ever-evolving plethora of quests that are never the same.

I bet the entire system could be coded in a day, assuming there's an existing quest and rep. system in place.  (and yes, I've thought this through)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LPMud

[Fordel]

Until it starts raining Penis.

no no no... the user wouldnt have access to any kind of assets that arent already dev-created.  Just simply a quest UI that allows others to accomplish predetermined goals of your choosing, complete with fancy enterable quest lore.  The flavor text is where it can get tricky, but that of course would have to be overseen by GMs.  (GASP)  Woah, a job GMs can ACTUALLY do!  [aside from spamming the usual custserve crap]

e.g. you're still killin boars, but instead of paying Tigole to write the quest, you're just letting your players do it.  The writers can use NPCs or kiosks (ala SWG) for quest turnin.  In a nutshell, you're basically turning the quest system into a crafting system, and vice versa.  Slick devs would interweave the economy into the thing.

You are severely under estimating how much effort goes into even the most mundane of quests. At least those that aren't kill 10 boars and move on. Shitty RP text doesn't make a Boar collection quest any more fun.

[Lantyssa]

What will be interesting to see if it works is the quest rating system in CoX.

[MrHat]

Until it starts raining Penis.

no no no... the user wouldnt have access to any kind of assets that arent already dev-created.  Just simply a quest UI that allows others to accomplish predetermined goals of your choosing, complete with fancy enterable quest lore.  The flavor text is where it can get tricky, but that of course would have to be overseen by GMs.  (GASP)  Woah, a job GMs can ACTUALLY do!  [aside from spamming the usual custserve crap]

e.g. you're still killin boars, but instead of paying Tigole to write the quest, you're just letting your players do it.  The writers can use NPCs or kiosks (ala SWG) for quest turnin.  In a nutshell, you're basically turning the quest system into a crafting system, and vice versa.  Slick devs would interweave the economy into the thing.

You are severely under estimating how much effort goes into even the most mundane of quests. At least those that aren't kill 10 boars and move on. Shitty RP text doesn't make a Boar collection quest any more fun.

Also seriously underestimating the amount of time and creativity a user will spend to get penises to show up in game in some form.

[Delmania]

Also seriously underestimating the amount of time and creativity a user will spend to get penises to show up in game in some form.

Sporn?

[Hawkbit]

In theory, allowing player generated kill quests *should* allow for the developers to concentrate on improved story based quests.

[Ghambit]

In theory, allowing player generated kill quests *should* allow for the developers to concentrate on improved story based quests.

Not only that, but it autocreates in-depth factional politics along with meaningful reputation gains.  If the server is PvP it also gives a reason to fight.

[Kageru]

Since blizzard has had the opportunity to stare deep into the madness that is its user-base I would guess that user created content never even crossed their minds.

I don't see a place for it anyway. Blizzard has the money, time and attention to detail that they'll carefully craft the user experience.

[Sjofn]

Everyone says they took EQ and made it better...

Who, WoW?  I always think WoW gave us a paradigm shift whereby rather than grinding mobs for levels and loot, you quest for it. They are both DIKU-style MMOs with a heavy emphasis on raiding, but really, a solo person in WoW can quest their way not only through the levels, but their entire end game can be questing.

Every diku game ever would've liked to have you quest from 1-Max. Writing Quests and doing all the work relative to them costs money. Lots of money. Money that didn't exist when Everquest came out.

Also, you're still grinding for levels and loot in WoW. You're just grinding quests instead of mobs. Which probably entails a lot more walking back and forth rather than just forth.

I'm not knocking WoW for this, good on them for doing it that way. But let's try to see the forest for the trees, please.

I don't entirely buy this, just because there were lots and lots of quests in, say, DAoC. But they were SO fucking annoying to do for (usually) jack shit reward, no one did them. So then, I am sure, the people making the game thought, "Man, so not worth putting time and money into quests, no one does them."

WoW made quests worth doing. They weren't actually the first, CoH made missions worth doing before WoW did.

Also, am I the only one who uses "grind" as in "boring shit I don't want to do?" Because I don't FEEL bored doing quests to level in WoW, so I don't consider it a grind at all. Playing the early scenarios in WAR was fun, so I didn't consider that a grind. Sitting in one place for two hours for a bubble's worth of XP, though? Yeah, that was a grind.

[Delmania]

In theory, allowing player generated kill quests *should* allow for the developers to concentrate on improved story based quests.

It's an old idea that's been kicking around for a while, hence the link to LPMud.  However, you wouldn't want to give this power to just anyone, even if they are high level.  You'd want to fashion to identify the players who aren't douchebags and can design a quest that fits in with your world.  In small community MUD, this is fairly easy.  In an MMO with several hundred thousand subscribers split across various worlds, well I'd be interested in hearing how'd you filter people.

[Ratman_tf]

As opposed to the graphics engine, database code, etc... which was free?

I think it's more the cost of hiring people to think about the quests and write them down. 

Considering how many people want to be game designers, I find it hard to believe that a company couldn't hire people by the barrelfull for nickels and dimes to spin that stuff out.

Hell, I bet Blizz could do a "Write a quest!" contest, put a disclaimer that all submitted materials become property of Blizzard, give the winners their prizes, and have warehouses full of quest writeups.

[Count Nerfedalot]

WoW made quests worth doing. They weren't actually the first, CoH made missions worth doing before WoW did.

Also, am I the only one who uses "grind" as in "boring shit I don't want to do?" Because I don't FEEL bored doing quests to level in WoW, so I don't consider it a grind at all. Playing the early scenarios in WAR was fun, so I didn't consider that a grind. Sitting in one place for two hours for a bubble's worth of XP, though? Yeah, that was a grind.

AC made missions worth doing before CoH even.  But both AC and CoH's missions were too repetitive.  Whereas WoW had ENOUGH quests worth doing (and pretty much bug free) that you could make your way from 1st to max level entirely by questing (without repeating any, and soloable even just to rub it in).  Nobody else before or since has given us that much working content at release. 

My definition of "Grind" is having to repeat content or "make up my own by repetitively killing some optimal mob" just to advance my character to where it can handle the next tantalizing bit of content.  WoW at release, and EQ2 many years after release, have enough content that you can't possibly do all of it while it's level appropriate.  EQ2 even lets you turn off combat exp and you STILL out-level content faster than you can finish it!  Granted too much of that content is still walking back and forth between quest hub and mob area to kill first one set of mobs, then another, then another...  which becomes grindy in itself.

Probably the single biggest cause of churn in DDO, AoC (post level 20) and possibly WAR as well was the lack of sufficient content to get you from one level to the next without having to repeat it.  Content is king (and Polish is Queen).  Content and Polish cost money.  Blizzard spent lots more money on content and polish than anyone else, and guess what?  They made lots more money than anyone else as a result.  They will not be dethroned until someone steps up to the plate and at least matches them.

[UnSub]

Until it starts raining Penis.

no no no... the user wouldnt have access to any kind of assets that arent already dev-created.  Just simply a quest UI that allows others to accomplish predetermined goals of your choosing, complete with fancy enterable quest lore.  The flavor text is where it can get tricky, but that of course would have to be overseen by GMs.  (GASP)  Woah, a job GMs can ACTUALLY do!  [aside from spamming the usual custserve crap]

e.g. you're still killin boars, but instead of paying Tigole to write the quest, you're just letting your players do it.  The writers can use NPCs or kiosks (ala SWG) for quest turnin.  In a nutshell, you're basically turning the quest system into a crafting system, and vice versa.  Slick devs would interweave the economy into the thing.

CoH/V says, "Hello".

[Xurtan]

It's an old idea that's been kicking around for a while, hence the link to LPMud.  However, you wouldn't want to give this power to just anyone, even if they are high level.  You'd want to fashion to identify the players who aren't douchebags and can design a quest that fits in with your world.  In small community MUD, this is fairly easy.  In an MMO with several hundred thousand subscribers split across various worlds, well I'd be interested in hearing how'd you filter people.

I wonder about this. How hard would it be to set up a system similar to that of the EverQuest Guide 'entrance exam' type thing? Admittedly, you had your couple of bad apples as with anything, but with the content controlled by the GMs and the like, and no real power to the players.. *shrug* Of course, never underestimate the one asshat who will spend a year trying to find the loophole to screw over everyone else.

[Delmania]

Considering how many people want to be game designers, I find it hard to believe that a company couldn't hire people by the barrelfull for nickels and dimes to spin that stuff out.

Hell, I bet Blizz could do a "Write a quest!" contest, put a disclaimer that all submitted materials become property of Blizzard, give the winners their prizes, and have warehouses full of quest writeups.

Paul Barnett, Senoir Game Designer.

[Tale]

The MMOG masses cannot spell. Who's going to sub-edit the quest text? And even if players can write better than expected, who's going to sub-edit the penises out of the quest text?

[Bzalthek]

"im lookin for som wolf peltz u think u can get 10 of em for me?  lolthx"

[ashrik]

Perhaps it is time we embrace the penis aspect of innovative game design