Blizzards New MMO

[Venkman]

Tell me how a PnP game is anywhere near as easy as buying WoW, installing, patching and playing, at your own speed, on your own time, and only talking to other people if you feel like it.

Give a WoW disc to your grandmother who never used a computer before.

Now ask the same grandmother to join your PnP table. "All I gotta do is pretend that I'm an elf archer?"

Jeezus, that was green right?

If not, you're insane. Or I can't divine the special plane of existence you live on where a computer illiterate grandparent is going to want to play a face to face roleplaying game with a bunch of people. You think there's anywhere the world that's going to queue up D&D over Bingo?

You're talking about an edge case so edge it fell over the freaking edge.  

[Hindenburg]

You're talking about an edge case so edge it fell over the freaking edge.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJDNkX6rCNM

[Sheepherder]

@Sheepherder: What are you trying to tell me with that screenshot? Seriously, I can't figure it out They appear to be in Stormwind Castle headed toward the King, but otherwise I don't get it.

There is a deceptive number of people who actually care about the lore, or at the very least have the sense to enjoy what is supposed to be a dramatic scene.

Four death knights in Stormwind castle doesn't strike you as a little odd, if you keep WC3 in mind? And they're walking, the hallmark of the srs arrpeer.

In short, Blizzard have jumped the shark massively and nobody seems to give a damn, not even those who ought to by preference.

Atleast that's my take.

It's the best they've managed in recent years.  So yeah, given the story in War III was pretty decent I'd say they've jumped the shark on this one.  It doesn't mean that game is going to collapse, it's just they've wasted potential for retention and Bioware seems to be swooping in to scoop up the people interested in a story.

Are you kidding? The RP crowd had to be falling all over themselves to play the ultimate tragic backstory/outsider type character of WoW the minute it was announced.

Not ultimate, that would be demon hunter.  Which we're likely not getting because that ship probably sailed with TBC.

[Ghambit]

I've flipped through this thread a bit and I'm seeing a lot of WC and WoW discussion.  Blizzard's already said their next MMO wont have anything to do with Warcraft (definitely not a WoW 2) so why the hubbub?  Let us speculate somewhere else.  The dead-horse has been beaten.

Still though, if it's anything but a Starcraft MMO Blizzard will be making a mistake IMO... although that genre looks to be quite flooded once JE, SWTOR, and STO get released.

[schild]

Still though, if it's anything but a Starcraft MMO Blizzard will be making a mistake IMO... although that genre looks to be quite flooded once JE, SWTOR, and STO get released.

Not a single one of those titles would have any noticeable effect on anything Blizzard releases. Ever.

Blizzard would sell more boxes in a month than most of those games would sell over their lifetime. WoW has primed them for success on their next game even if its a dismal failure.

[Nija]

Whatever they do they are going to explore some path previously thought to be "impossible" and stomp the dogshit out of anyone who has tried to or is currently trying to travel the same path.

Example: Planetside/ww2o that works and greater than a double digit population. Eve with actual ship controls and massive battles. Guildwars with fun and without stupid cardlike skills. Hell, even some mass multiplayer RTS hybrid game. Whatever. You get the picture. IP doesn't matter one bit.

[Ghambit]

Still though, if it's anything but a Starcraft MMO Blizzard will be making a mistake IMO... although that genre looks to be quite flooded once JE, SWTOR, and STO get released.

Not a single one of those titles would have any noticeable effect on anything Blizzard releases. Ever.

Blizzard would sell more boxes in a month than most of those games would sell over their lifetime. WoW has primed them for success on their next game even if its a dismal failure.

I'd agree with you if it was any other genre besides Sci-Fi.  Also, SW and ST (as cursed as they are) are still huge IPs.  Small genre with 3-4 heavyweight titles and there's a problem if 2 of them are moderately successful. 
I guess the odds are in Blizz's favor though that the 3 other sci-fi titles that get released will bomb anyways.  Not to mention they're scheduled for release way before Blizz's.  So I guess yah, Blizz will do just fine - as long as they release the game more polished than they released WoW.  The public put up with WoW for the 1st 6 months because it was fresh and new; they wont do it again regardless of if it's Blizz's baby or not.

[Tarami]

So I guess yah, Blizz will do just fine - as long as they release the game more polished than they released WoW.  The public put up with WoW for the 1st 6 months because it was fresh and new; they wont do it again regardless of if it's Blizz's baby or not.

The latter is absolute bull. They didn't put up with nothing. WoW had well over a million subscribers four months after release. In six months it had subscriber levels that Brad McQuaid had only hallucinated about in his highs of morphine.

And the subscribers will "put up" with it again.

[schild]

I'd agree with you if it was any other genre besides Sci-Fi.  Also, SW and ST (as cursed as they are) are still huge IPs.  Small genre with 3-4 heavyweight titles and there's a problem if 2 of them are moderately successful.
I guess the odds are in Blizz's favor though that the 3 other sci-fi titles that get released will bomb anyways.  Not to mention they're scheduled for release way before Blizz's.  So I guess yah, Blizz will do just fine - as long as they release the game more polished than they released WoW.  The public put up with WoW for the 1st 6 months because it was fresh and new; they wont do it again regardless of if it's Blizz's baby or not.

Doesn't matter if they bomb or not, Blizzard will spank the shit out of them by virtue of being Blizzard.

[Ingmar]

  So I guess yah, Blizz will do just fine - as long as they release the game more polished than they released WoW. 

WoW at release was the single most polished MMO experience I had had ever at the time, so I am not sure what this is about. There were some performance issues around their shitty Oracle 10 implementation but it blew away anything that had come before in terms of polish. Like different universes entirely.

[UnSub]

Whatever they do they are going to explore some path previously thought to be "impossible" and stomp the dogshit out of anyone who has tried to or is currently trying to travel the same path.

Example: Planetside/ww2o that works and greater than a double digit population. Eve with actual ship controls and massive battles. Guildwars with fun and without stupid cardlike skills. Hell, even some mass multiplayer RTS hybrid game. Whatever. You get the picture. IP doesn't matter one bit.

If we think that Blizzard really doesn't originate but just polishes up a trend til it shines, then their next MMO will probably be a very action-oriented title with social networking capabilities and RMT to an extent. But IP does matter, because it frames everything else.

It's one of the reasons I won't be shocked if Vivendi comes out with, "Remember that exclusive MMO deal with Marvel Comics we used to have? It's back. Guess who is doing the MMO?". It's a new IP for Blizzard; it doesn't have to be an unknown IP for the rest of the world.

[schild]

Marvel is actually on my very short list of possible IPs.

[UnSub]

That made me look up who published MUA. Activision.

[Venkman]

What is Pardo's Blizzard's experience with other people's IP?

Why would they take another IP when they've got two others they can push into three different genres to master those (again)?

The "new to Blizzard/not new to the world" thing we've discussed. It's plausible, but I'd put it in the same realm of probability as SC or Diablo MMO, for the sheer fact that they could probably do as much business with either of those as they could with a higher-selling-potential IP that gets offset by IP royalty payments.

[Ghambit]

  So I guess yah, Blizz will do just fine - as long as they release the game more polished than they released WoW. 

WoW at release was the single most polished MMO experience I had had ever at the time, so I am not sure what this is about. There were some performance issues around their shitty Oracle 10 implementation but it blew away anything that had come before in terms of polish. Like different universes entirely.

Everything you said here supports my claim.  Namely stuff like "ever had at the time,"  and "..had come before in terms of polish" etc.  The online verse is a different animal now.   The loot lag, server overloads, lack of endgame, pvp, and quest polish wont fly anymore.  All of which WoW was rife with at release.  Teh shinay newness wont help their next title, it'll have to be better.

[UnSub]

What is Pardo's Blizzard's experience with other people's IP?

Why would they take another IP when they've got two others they can push into three different genres to master those (again)?

The "new to Blizzard/not new to the world" thing we've discussed. It's plausible, but I'd put it in the same realm of probability as SC or Diablo MMO, for the sheer fact that they could probably do as much business with either of those as they could with a higher-selling-potential IP that gets offset by IP royalty payments.

According to MobyGames, he's got some third party experience, but not much for a while. But I thought Kaplan was leading this new MMO, not Pardo.

They'll take another IP because they've said it won't be one of theirs. It'll save time on development and someone like Marvel can provide them with a lot of pre-production support.

[schild]

The loot lag, server overloads, lack of endgame, pvp, and quest polish wont fly anymore.  All of which WoW was rife with at release.

Oh, hey, look, none of it mattered.

I'm not defending WoW, I'm just pointing out that you're talking about this without thinking, like, at all.

Teh shinay newness wont help their next title, it'll have to be better.

Barely. I'm not even really sure it has to be at all.

[Triforcer]

Marvel is actually on my very short list of possible IPs.

The more I think about it, the more that makes an incredible amount of sense.  PLEASE be this...

[Venkman]

They'll take another IP because they've said it won't be one of theirs. It'll save time on development and someone like Marvel can provide them with a lot of pre-production support.

First part's a maybe. But second part is, err, not.

Having a major IP holder looking over your shoulder at all does not "save time", like, ever. And "pre-production" support is actually the mythical alignment of someone with clout to be autonomous, knows how to channel info into a persistent world, the flexibility to react to your schedule on your schedule, and do so while keeping the rest of the IP team mollified (and out of the way). All while working with a company renowned for telling everyone else, including retailers, to stand the hell in line, the game will be released when its good and damned well ready.

This is not a powerful alignment of two pliable forces

[Trippy]

Marvel is actually on my very short list of possible IPs.

The more I think about it, the more that makes an incredible amount of sense.  PLEASE be this...

If Vivendi bought back the rights to the Marvel MMO which they lost to Microsoft (which then abandoned their project) that would've made the news, at least from Marvel.

[UnSub]

Marvel is actually on my very short list of possible IPs.

The more I think about it, the more that makes an incredible amount of sense.  PLEASE be this...

If Vivendi bought back the rights to the Marvel MMO which they lost to Microsoft (which then abandoned their project) that would've made the news, at least from Marvel.

It'd be news only if it went through official channels. Blizzard (to my knowledge) typically doesn't leak info. Marvel will probably want to avoid announcing anything until they've got material to show. It also helps that DCUO and ChampO (and MxO, to some extent) can show any future MUO what traps they should avoid.

Plus I think Blizzard is big enough now to tell Marvel it'll ship when its ready too. Or they'll dump the license and release a Mutants and Masterminds MMO (MMMMO for short ).

It might not be Marvel. I thought that Marvel would be developing a version of MUO in-house using their own studio after pulling it from Cryptic, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that's been happening.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Blizzard has shown with wow that freedom with a license is a very good thing and while there is a possibility of them taking an established IP i would highly doubt it would be something so significant as marvel simply because their hands will be tied in the way SWG was and blizzard isn't that dumb.

[Lantyssa]

This is not a powerful alignment of two pliable forces

Blizzard has a trump card.

"Look, you've had what, three, four, failed attempts at MUO?  Can't keep track of it.  We've got a game that dwarfs all other MMOs combined, the money to make dozens more, and the experience to do it right.  We'll launch when we want as we want.  You'll get money hats and we'll get money hats for our money hats.  Shut up and do as you're told."

"Yes, Mistress.  May I have another?"

[Ratman_tf]

This is not a powerful alignment of two pliable forces

Blizzard has a trump card.

"Look, you've had what, three, four, failed attempts at MUO?  Can't keep track of it.  We've got a game that dwarfs all other MMOs combined, the money to make dozens more, and the experience to do it right.  We'll launch when we want as we want.  You'll get money hats and we'll get money hats for our money hats.  Shut up and do as you're told."

"Yes, Mistress.  May I have another?"

Probably. But the thought of a Blizzard MMOG set in the Marvel universe feels pretty blah. (And I realize it wouldn't have to be an RPG...) Just... that's like the last IP I'd be interested in for online gaming.

Meh.

[Lantyssa]

The thought of it doesn't do anything for me either.  I wouldn't bet one way or the other on it at that.  But if they were in talks, it'd go pretty much like that.  Maybe a little more grovelling on Marvel's part.  If I had an IP, I'd get a tingle in my happy place just thinking about them considering using it.

[gryeyes]

Ya Marvel MMO does not really seem very appealing to me either. I dont see why Blizzard would want to deal with all the added difficulty (I am assuming) by using the Marvel brand. Its not like they need the name recognition or anything.

When a major IP licenses itself to be used in MMO's do they tend to just receive a flat price for the license? Or are they entitled to a % of the profits?

[Venkman]

Any IP holder worth their weight in lawyers would go for the ongoing revshare from the recurring fees collected. After an up front payment.

This is not a powerful alignment of two pliable forces

Blizzard has a trump card.

In this type of licensing discussion, not really. You're talking about an IP holder that started in the last Depression and has managed to keep selling their story through the emergence of home radio, movies, TV, computer and internet across a bunch of different media. To them, Blizzard is like a successful kid, but still a "mere" software provider on a single platform that is only really relevant to big media because of the online services and the fees attached to them.

Meanwhile, Blizzard thinks they are king of the hill. Most likely because they are. And it cannot be overstated that they're sitting on two other major IPs that probably strike a closer cord with the gamers of today than anything Marvel has done besides some some semi-ok movies for the last decade or so.

Marvel would likely expected their right due as a major IP holder. But you probably couldn't pay Blizzard enough to have them shelve Diablo and Starcraft in favor of something that has no history of ever surviving first contact with the actual development phase. Seriously, the failure-to-launch has got to have something to do with what Marvel is doing that DC has not been doing.

[Sjofn]

I don't see how Warcraft has any more room to be expanded on.  They stretched credibility pretty fucking thin with WoW.  Particularly TBC, but to a lesser extent with Wrath and the sudden appearance of giant vikings, walrus people, robotic gnomes, and non-organic dwarves in large and small varieties.  I don't think the universe can take much more expansion without (more) people getting pissed to the point where they just don't care.

The Tuskaar, I believe, existed in WC3. The non-organic dwarves existed in fuckin' Vanilla. Have you not done Uldaman? The earthen is actually Blizzard revisiting that lo these many years later (open Uldum already Blizzard  ). The giant vikings, I don't really see what's so weird about them, aside from why they're all WOO LICH KING (I assume they think he's one of their gods). The robot gnomes are pretty wtf though. 

Really, TBC was waaaaay more "what lore?" to me.

EDIT: Also, I really doubt they'll do an MMO based on an IP that isn't completely theirs. I'm sure they'd do a bang up job with them, but I think they would want the freedom for their lore people to pull completely random crap out of their ass (hi draenei!) if they so desire.

[Lantyssa]

Ah, but what an ass it is...

[Sheepherder]

The Tuskaar, I believe, existed in WC3. The non-organic dwarves existed in fuckin' Vanilla. Have you not done Uldaman? The earthen is actually Blizzard revisiting that lo these many years later (open Uldum already Blizzard  ). The giant vikings, I don't really see what's so weird about them, aside from why they're all WOO LICH KING (I assume they think he's one of their gods). The robot gnomes are pretty wtf though. 

Really, TBC was waaaaay more "what lore?" to me.

EDIT: Also, I really doubt they'll do an MMO based on an IP that isn't completely theirs. I'm sure they'd do a bang up job with them, but I think they would want the freedom for their lore people to pull completely random crap out of their ass (hi draenei!) if they so desire.

1. I mentally blanked the Tuskarr, mea culpa.  Still a stupid race.
2. The non-organic dwarves should have stayed in their damn ruins where they belong.  They're supposed to be mostly extinct, remember?
3. Vikings make sense.  Giant vikings is excessive, like the Death Knight Dragonball-Z cinematic at Light's Hope Chapel.
4. TBC was just 
5. I so wanted to play as a mutated scythe-blade wielding abomination.  Blue space goats are okay, but the backstory is just terrible.

[UnSub]

Marvel would likely expected their right due as a major IP holder. But you probably couldn't pay Blizzard enough to have them shelve Diablo and Starcraft in favor of something that has no history of ever surviving first contact with the actual development phase. Seriously, the failure-to-launch has got to have something to do with what Marvel is doing that DC has not been doing.

I have no doubt that Marvel are extremely problematic to work with. Their fidding appears to have caused three previous versions of their MMO to be put down.

But, at the same time, they want a MMO. DC is going to get one before them and that has to sting. They will try again and going back to Vivendi (and through them, Blizzard) isn't a bad place to start.

One factor I don't think anyone at Blizzard really knows is how important the Warcraft IP was to the WoW's success. A whole bunch of factors went into making WoW as big as it is, but the exact power of the IP probably isn't known. Now, Blizzard can probably whip up their own IP, but that will mean building a new world, which is something they appear to hesitate in doing regularly - they prefer sequels or to take huge chunks out of existing texts and adapting them enough to avoid being sued at least in the basic state (e.g. Warcraft ~= Warhammer, Starcraft ~= Warhammer 40K).

If I thought Blizzard were working on their own IP I'd say Starcraft was their best shot, but they say they aren't. Looking around at other IPs, Marvel (or something like it) gives them instant recognition with all those people who saw Spider-Man and X-Men movies but weren't interested in playing a fantasy MMO. It's also a genre that is fairly empty of competition compared to the fantasy and sci-fi genres, which will count for their follow-up MMO (because unless it gets 20m players, it will be seen as a failure compared to WoW).

It'll be interesting to see what they do. Regardless, on the day the new title is announced, MMO developers worldwide will weep into their stimulants and wonder how many players they'll lose to the new Blizzard title.

[Ghambit]

If I thought Blizzard were working on their own IP I'd say Starcraft was their best shot, but they say they aren't. Looking around at other IPs, Marvel (or something like it) gives them instant recognition with all those people who saw Spider-Man and X-Men movies but weren't interested in playing a fantasy MMO. It's also a genre that is fairly empty of competition compared to the fantasy and sci-fi genres, which will count for their follow-up MMO (because unless it gets 20m players, it will be seen as a failure compared to WoW).

It'll be interesting to see what they do. Regardless, on the day the new title is announced, MMO developers worldwide will weep into their stimulants and wonder how many players they'll lose to the new Blizzard title.

Where/when did they say they werent working on a Starcraft MMO?
Only thing I've seen them say they werent working on was another Warcraft or Diablo MMO.

[Lakov_Sanite]

It won't be diablo or starcraft lets just ignore what blizzard did or did not say and just think about it for a moment. They are going to be milking SC2 and D3 with expansions for YEARS to come. It just doesn't make sense for them to introduce an mmo with that ip when those games work well on their own. Sure they could wait until after the D3/SC2 franchise starts to wear down but whatever new mmo they make they are going to want to release way before then.  Wow is definitely starting to peak and it's a much better idea to start filtering customers to the new mmo now while they can advertise and you're still associated with the company.  Once people start leaving for other games/genres/real life then it becomes that much harder for blizzard to bring people over.

I would expect blizzard to make an annoucement about their new mmo, at least the basic name/title around this time next year when they are announcing the new wow expansion.

[Fordel]

WoW is peaking?

[Nija]

Blizzard has shown with wow that freedom with a license is a very good thing and while there is a possibility of them taking an established IP i would highly doubt it would be something so significant as marvel simply because their hands will be tied in the way SWG was and blizzard isn't that dumb.

Exactly. You said what I was trying to say.

The only reason the Warcraft IP mattered to WoW is that Blizzard themselves created the fucking thing a decade, +/-, before. They fucking created it. They can do whatever the fuck with it they want with it.

It would be fucking stupid to take WARHAMMER, or some other equally worthless (BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T CREATE THAT SHIT!) IP and be constrained. And!! And then have to deal with a dicksmooch on the caliber of that youtube video posting guy being sent from Games Workshop in over to "oversee the process" and "make sure they are doing the intellectual property right."

God damn it.

edit: I guess IP does matter. It makes your game worse if you have to deal with the creators or current owners of the IP.