DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.

[Malakili]

.  When did f13 become a forum for people who hate games? 

When we all realized our best gaming days were behind us.

[Nebu]

I think this game is fun for what it is: log on and blow stuff up for an hour before getting bored (and/or getting carpel tunnel).   Even just flying around hunting for ? can be a nice way to blow an hour.  If you start to treat it as an achievement game, it gets old VERY fast. 

[ghost]

I think this game is fun for what it is: log on and blow stuff up for an hour before getting bored (and/or getting carpel tunnel).   Even just flying around hunting for ? can be a nice way to blow an hour.  If you start to treat it as an achievement game, it gets old VERY fast. 

This type of game is absolutely not a bad thing, because you could come back to it in a few months and enjoy it again, presumably without having to grind up 10 levels and get super re-geared to have fun.  They have the wrong payment model for this type of game though. 

[Lantyssa]

When did f13 become a forum for people who hate games?

I've seen people point out both the good and bad, of all games here, so I don't know what you're on about.  There might be a couple of posters that do nothing but negativity, no silver lining ever, but they're called on it.  (See Rift for the clearest example.)

The one bad point that sticks out is the obvious one, which is that it probably should have been a pay model other than subscription.  While negative, it's also constructive in trying to point out an alternative.

[HaemishM]

.  When did f13 become a forum for people who hate games? 

When we all realized our best gaming days were behind us.

I disagree with that. There are games I am having as much fun with as in the olden days. I only long for more time with those games.

But if you talk about MMOG's? Yeah, I think the negativity in the MMOG sector is so heavy because WoW was the last great MMOG. Everything else has been a colossal clusterfuck. When the two best non-WoW MMOG's are both F2P (EQ2 and LotRO) despite there having been a few big releases after them, you know something's wrong. Money is getting poured into MMOG's and being spent by consumers, but I can't reasonably say the medium has improved all that much since EQ1.

[Ingmar]

So the interesting question is still, "Why are MMOs getting worse at this rather than better"? I think part of it is that there was less hesitancy to push out something that might be exploited or be unbalanced in early MMOs. Obviously the art resources were easier to handle, and probably the code base as well. I dunno.

They're getting worse at it because content is more complicated to create now. You can't just add a zone, sprinkle it with 5000 mobs and call it a day.

[ghost]

With some of the shit they put out they might have a better response just to choose that option, Ingmar. 

[Amaron]

They have the wrong payment model for this type of game though. 

I don't know as I agree.   The console angle makes F2P of any kind sort of risky as it's very untested ground.  Lots of people consider this sort of content very worthwhile of a cheap monthly sub.   If they can push out the content and keep their subs up via the console then they're far better off just ignoring the F2P crowd.

[Evildrider]

Sooo I picked this up like a week ago and I already have no interest in logging in.   

It has some novelty to it, that made me play it hard core for a day, then my enthusiasm just went downhill.  I was kind of looking for a side game that i could play when I get bored with WoW.  This obviously wasn't it. 

It has some potential but overall it was another letdown.  Overall I don't know what happened to MMO's.  It makes me sad that for years I was able to find other stuff to play besides WoW, but its where I keep ending up now.

[UnSub]

My understanding is that DCUO is Sony's number one selling game of all time and that they were having problems keeping it in stock.  That sounds like a successful game to me.

SOE was clever in promoting this and most games sites were happy to post Smedley's tweet as a news article.

DCUO is more than likely SOE's fastest selling title of all time (at least in its launch week) because it launched on the PC and PS3 at the same time. To date, it looks like DCUO has sold about 250k - 300k on each platform. You double your number of platforms, you can certainly increase the speed of sales. (Oh, and about two-thirds of its PC sales came from digital distribution.)

Regarding keeping it in stock: anecdotally SOE didn't ship that many copies (and they may have found it hard to, given it went gold right after Xmas and was into stores in early January). Other circumstantial evidence exists that DCUO was originally planned to ship in February, but made a late change to January.

I've said that DCUO is fun, but it isn't worth $15 a month. On top of that, SOE has made a number of basic, basic mistakes - god awful chat functionality, simple PvP exploits, etc - and despite having a short levelling curve fail to have a wide variety of things for players to do at max level. Five years of development and US$50m+ in development on a title that looks to be losing most of its players in less than a month.

And then there has been dev videos with statements like, "It wouldn't be the DC Universe without secret identities, so hypothetically yes, there will be secret identities in-game" that appear about a month before DCUO hits pre-order beta, only for the game to ship without secret identities (or a trade channel, or an auction house, etc etc).

I still love games, but the above is plenty of reasons to watch a car accident that could have long-term impacts on how the industry sees console MMOs.

What do I want from a sub-based MMO? For it to be worth the sub fee.

[DLRiley]

They have the wrong payment model for this type of game though. 

I don't know as I agree.   The console angle makes F2P of any kind sort of risky as it's very untested ground.  Lots of people consider this sort of content very worthwhile of a cheap monthly sub.   If they can push out the content and keep their subs up via the console then they're far better off just ignoring the F2P crowd.

Which is bigger and pays more money.

[Amaron]

and pays more money.

Only if you include the people who enjoy pay to win games.   That section of the F2P market isn't courtable in this case. 

[HaemishM]

There are numerous examples of successful F2P MMOG's that aren't pay to win games.

[Amaron]

There are numerous examples of successful F2P MMOG's that aren't pay to win games.

That's out of context to my reply.   He said the F2P market was "bigger" which is utter nonsense (in the context of games like DCUO) if you compare it by monetary values.

[Lantyssa]

Eliminate WoW, which is an outlier of all sorts, and try again.

[Amaron]

Eliminate WoW, which is an outlier of all sorts, and try again.

I actually WAS eliminating WoW and all the pay 2 win cash shop ones which can not possibly be used for a DC property.

Seriously how many real F2P does that leave?  Lotro, DDO, EQ2 (sort of).   You can add Anarchy Online but that's just an extended free trial when looking at it from the perspective of money.

I really like the DDO model and think it's probably the wave of the future but it's not BIGGER than subscriptions yet (even with WoW excluded).

[DLRiley]

Lolz. Than do a simple math equation count the number of F2P mmo's that have stayed running for 3 years tops and has a regularly updated front page. Or http://gigaom.com/2009/02/01/top-10-money-making-mmos-2008/

[Lantyssa]

Seriously how many real F2P does that leave?  Lotro, DDO, EQ2 (sort of).   You can add Anarchy Online but that's just an extended free trial when looking at it from the perspective of money.

What pay-to-play games does it leave?

[UnSub]

I really like the DDO model and think it's probably the wave of the future but it's not BIGGER than subscriptions yet (even with WoW excluded).

I guess you just mean "in the west", because F2P worldwide is more than likely bigger than sub2P.

[DLRiley]

Funny exercise; Go to Gamestop or Target and check on the "prepaid cards section" you'll see prepaid cards for WoW and prepaid cards for companies based in South Korea  , just pick any random dozen whose company name you don't know. They sell maple story points in rite aid btw.

 http://news.mmosite.com/content/2010-06-12/study_reveals_top_10_money_making_mmos_in_2009_5_made_in_china,1.shtml

[Nebu]

Didn't last the first month. 

Fun blow-em-up-game, but no stick to it.  Level up to cap and as a reward, you get to solo/duo the same dungeons for dailies.  I may go back when an expansion comes out just to play another month. 

Biggest gripes:

Targeting is terrible. 
Too much CC
Poor explanations of abilities and stats
Gear skins are pretty uninspired.  Sad when you miss COH.
Too much repetitive content

Enjoy:
Getting a travel power at level 1.
Immersion into the DC world. 
The city is fun to look around.
Fast pace (ruined by shitty targeting and lag that kills combos)

This game may be worth another look in a few months after some fixes and an expansion.

[sam, an eggplant]

You made it to the level cap, which takes around 30 hours in DCUO, so you got value for your fifty bucks. Unsubscribe for now, then if/when they add new content think about resubbing.

Call me crazy, but that sounds like a very civilized way to handle a MMO.

They're leaving money on the table so this state of events obviously wasn't deliberate, but for me at least, the complete lack of poopsock makes the game infinitely sexier.

[Nebu]

You made it to the level cap, which takes around 30 hours in DCUO, so you got value for your fifty bucks. Unsubscribe for now, then if/when they add new content think about resubbing.

Call me crazy, but that sounds like a very civilized way to handle a MMO.

They're leaving money on the table so this state of events obviously wasn't deliberate, but for me at least, the complete lack of poopsock makes the game infinitely sexier.

I wasn't complaining.  I enjoyed the trip to cap as both a hero and a villain (and I stated so much earlier in the thread).  You're exactly correct that today's MMO's are little more than a single player game with other people.  Dragon Age lasted me about the same number of hours as DCUO and didn't require a subscription. 

I'll go back when they have an expansion assuming that I get a free month with it. 

[Malakili]

They're leaving money on the table so this state of events obviously wasn't deliberate, but for me at least, the complete lack of poopsock makes the game infinitely sexier.

I think I may be broken, but I have to admit that even though I don't have the time to play the amount of hours I used to in any game, there is still something about the ability of someone to spend insane amounts of time in an MMO an not max out on it that lures me in.  Granted, what MMOs do I currently have installed on my machine...lets check it out.  1) WoW: Cataclysm 2) Global Agenda 3) Champions Online 4) World War 2 Online.  Granted, I haven't actually been playing much Champions but its free to play so I'm leaving it installed.  WW2O i unsubbed at the end of last month  also but its stills omething I played recently at least).   Soooooo I guess in practice I'm closer to the kind of casual person I always bitch about 

[ghost]

Dragon Age lasted me about the same number of hours as DCUO and didn't require a subscription. 

Yeah, but did you actually pay any sub with DCUO, or just use the "free" month?

[Nebu]

Yeah, but did you actually pay any sub with DCUO, or just use the "free" month?

Just used the free month.  I thought that was my point.  The game lacks the content to be fun beyond one month. 

[UnSub]

DCUO launched a trailer to say the first content patch was coming on the 15th. It's been delayed until sometime this week... possibly.

Not a great first impression of DCUO's commitment to monthly content patching.

[Sir T]

I would imagine that patching in content across multiple platforms is quite complicated.

[Typhon]

Actually, I would expect the first 3 patches (at least) to fuck things up significantly if virtually every other MMO launch to date precedence holds.

[ghost]

Yeah, but did you actually pay any sub with DCUO, or just use the "free" month?

Just used the free month.  I thought that was my point.  The game lacks the content to be fun beyond one month. 

Ah, okay.  Well, you got about the same entertainment value out of both Dragon Age and DCUO for the same price.  That's not awful.  I've always found it interesting that gamers (and please don't think I'm attributing this opinion to you in this case) will expect to pay for a game and a sub fee and it is magically going to be fun forever, even with the inevitable repetition.  Even though I didn't last past the first month in DCUO either, I'm still going to call it enjoyable because I did get a fair amount of entertainment value out of it in that first month. 

[statisticalfool]

I think the problems with the "fun for one month" MMO model:

• It's a 'pay $60 for a rental' model. You end up with a paperweight after a month.
• The anxiety of 'getting your money's worth' makes the way you play it less fun.
• People do actually want the kind of game where you can keep on going back to it. Maybe not all games can sustain 20 hrs/week of play without repetition. But don't charge a sub fee and then not back it up.

 

[UnSub]

I would imagine that patching in content across multiple platforms is quite complicated.

Possibly, but don't promise a date then. 

[Strazos]

Unsubbed. I generally liked my characters, but friends didn't have time to play, combat was spammy with poor feedback. Perhaps I'll check back late this year.

[Gunzwei]

Unsubbed myself. Fun for a month but considering CoX/CO are both more developed and Rift coming out soon it's hard to justify keeping a sub up.

[Amaron]

I really like the DDO model and think it's probably the wave of the future but it's not BIGGER than subscriptions yet (even with WoW excluded).

F2P worldwide is more than likely bigger than sub2P.

DDO model is F2P the revrese is not true.   Are there some asian mmo's that follow the DDO model?  I didn't know that if true.   All the big ones like Perfect World, Runes of Magic, etc are still P2Win model.