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f13.net General Forums => MMOG Discussion => Topic started by: Triforcer on January 11, 2009, 08:16:14 PM



Title: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Triforcer on January 11, 2009, 08:16:14 PM
http://ces.gamespot.com/video.html?sid=6202973

Lots of interesting stuff here.  My minor nitpicks:

(1) Not sure I like the "respawn in 10 seconds with full health mechanic."  At a minimum, I really can't see this working on PvP servers (which the DCUO Myspace page states the game will have- yay for that at least).

(2) I want to see Gotham.  Metropolis looks like every other generic city in a superhero video game, ever.

(3) Camera work is still a bit clunky, especially for flying enemies.  

(4) I'm ambivalent about the "only eight powers at a time" thing (and only four of those are active, four are reactive- thus, you have two basic attacks outside the power set, and four clickable abilities).  I like the ability to swap power sets after every fight, though.  This makes me worry a bit about tactical depth, but see below.


My likes:

(1)  Throwing cars.  Yes, please.  Please let me fly with a car up 30 stories and drop it on a villain in PvP.  This will be tough to balance- throwing things should do major damage, but this would naturally be limited by the limited availability of things to throw.

(2)  Power customization.  Supposedly, a dozen power sets- I've read, in various places, 4 or 5- fire, ice, electricity, radiation, and light.  It doesn't look like you can have powers from multiple sets, though.

But here are the levels of customization I have seen:

(a) Power set- fire, ice, etc.  We don't know alot about how different these are.  Although (as I said above) any power set can apparently swap in powers to get more DPS-y or tank-y, I hope there are significant strengths and weaknesses to each set (I can see radiation being more about DOTs, ice being more about crowd control, etc).

What would naturally add some balance here is natural weaknesses- fire-based are weak to ice, ice weak to fire, etc.

(b) Power source- magic, meta, gadgets, etc.  This limits your costume choices- a magic-based character can't use cyborg costume parts.  From what I've read, this seems to be cosmetic only (i.e., gadget fire-based leads to same potential powers as magic fire-based).

Check out CES 2009 screenshots as well- awesome shot of a cyborg female speedster.

(c) Weapon- this is important.  Within EACH power set, you can be ranged or melee.  That's pretty damn nice and (if the powers are different enough) could really add to replayability.  

(d) Movement type- so far, they have revealed flying, superspeed, and acrobatics.  Acrobatics is featured in that video- seems a bit floaty, but you can cling to walls (which fliers and speedsters can't).  Other articles have reported that the devs have hinted at trying to get in more (line-of-sight teleportation seems the obvious choice, and would be my personal favorite- give me a Nightcrawler cloud of smoke as I pop around the top of buildings, please).  

(3) I like the graphical direction, but obviously Metropolis is easier to do right than Gotham.  If they get Gotham right, I'll never leave.

(4) PvP (see DCUO myspace page for full dev post) is robust.  PvP servers, PvP zones, actions that flag you PvP, and both static and event-based hero v. villain instances.  

Think about what an absolute hell PvP will be too balance, though-  most MMOs have 10 or 12 classes, that are naturally tanks, DPS, healers, etc.

This game- a dozen power sets, each with ranged or melee potential, AND each of those combos could have at least three possible ways of movement.  Balancing movement powers in PvP alone seems really difficult.  How does a speedster catch a flier that just goes straight up when the battle is going bad?  How does an acrobat catch a speedster?  If speedsters are the fastest (and if all movement sets are equally fast, nobody would pick speedster) how does an acrobat or a flier prevent the speedster from hitting their megarun skill (speedsters are fast, but have a cooldown ability to kick it into really high gear) from just making a straight-line sprint away?  And if you give everyone ability to ground fliers or slow speedsters, you don't get the epic rooftop to rooftop battles that you see in comics.

(5) NO MOB FIELDS ANYWHERE (supposedly).  The exact quote I saw somewhere was "you won't see demon crack dealers on one side of the street with robots from the future across from them, with cultists summoning things from cauldrons on the rooftop."  Apparently, all mobs are tied to events happening (robberies, attacks, etc).  This seems like early development dev pillow talk, but if they can pull it off its pretty revolutionary.


Overall, I'm pretty excited about this as I read more.  PLEASE don't let this suck.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on January 11, 2009, 08:19:54 PM
Quote
(1) Not sure I like the "respawn in 10 seconds with full health mechanic."  At a minimum, I really can't see this working on PvP servers (which the DCUO Myspace page states the game will have- yay for that at least).

(2) I want to see Gotham.  Metropolis looks like every other generic city in a superhero video game, ever.

(3) Camera work is still a bit clunky, especially for flying enemies.

(4) I'm ambivalent about the "only eight powers at a time" thing (and only four of those are active, four are reactive- thus, you have two basic attacks outside the power set, and four clickable abilities).  I like the ability to swap power sets after every fight, though.  This makes me worry a bit about tactical depth, but see below.

1. It's a fast paced game. You have to play it to understand how that would work and how well it would probably work.

2. Metropolis was the original totally generic super hero city. New York during the day. Gotham is just New York at night. ^_^

3. I agree. When I last played, running was a problem also, really really really fast. Pretty amazing actually. But I'm sure they'll tweak both to perfection.

4. Well. It has to be playable on more than just a keyboard. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on January 11, 2009, 09:35:09 PM
So much of DCUO reminds me of CoH/V it isn't funny, even down to some of the animations. A faster version of it, sure, but their source is pretty obvious.

Also, I'm still yet to see more than 4 players in one area of DCUO. The whole "massively multiplayer" aspect is yet to be really shown.

I'm really interested to see how this title turns out, especially vs ChampO and CoH/V. While I've seen some players going nuts over wall running, the videos I've seen of it have just given me whiplash in trying to follow the camera.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: SnakeCharmer on January 11, 2009, 09:51:24 PM
Wow, that was really kind of cool.  Very video gamish looking and less (traditional) MMO looking, but still very cool.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on January 11, 2009, 10:20:39 PM
So much of DCUO reminds me of CoH/V it isn't funny, even down to some of the animations. A faster version of it, sure, but their source is pretty obvious.

Everyone keeps saying this, but I'm curious how it can be avoided.  Its a superhero MMO, set in the D.C. Universe.  People will fly and run fast and shoot fire from their hands at robots and aliens.  I suppose everyone could ride giant wombats and decide the outcome of battles through interpretive dance and a poetry jam while mashing peanut butter into their own hair, but then it wouldn't exactly be a superhero MMO.  Its like saying WoW and LOTRO remind you of Everquest since there is armor and magic. 

The point is more valid if you are talking about art direction, but again, if you want to capture that "comic book panel" look, all superhero MMOs are going to have a similar direction.     


EDIT:  Your point about superspeed is spot on though.  Some people won't be able to select it (even if they normally would for RP or its gameplay) for vomit-related reasons  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on January 11, 2009, 11:18:16 PM
DCUO's superspeed effect is very similar to CoH/V's superspeed effect (an energy wave around the feet).

The jumping pose - arms up, feed raised - is very similar too. Also the use of a few pillars (and two power sets) to customise what a character can do.

Take other superhero games - they do look different to CoH/V in a number of ways. To me it almost looks like part of the design document for DCUO was "Take CoH/V as a base model and extend it". If I didn't know better I'd swear that Cryptic was making DCUO and SOE was making ChampO.

But the only way I'll know is if I get into the DCUO beta test. How things look on video and how they play can be completely different.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on January 11, 2009, 11:28:02 PM
Quote
Also, I'm still yet to see more than 4 players in one area of DCUO. The whole "massively multiplayer" aspect is yet to be really shown.

I have.

I can't really say much, but I can say SOE Austin is doing some really cool shit. SWG seems to have been a really great learning experience for everyone involved, though most of those people have left and are busy polluting another game. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Trippy on January 11, 2009, 11:44:29 PM
I guess I shouldn't be surprised it being an SOE game and all but the animations are still incredibly assy as well as the faces still having that fucking Poser "uncanny valley" look to them.

It's nice that the death cam defaults to an upskirt shot though  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Velorath on January 12, 2009, 12:04:13 AM
Thought the combat looked pretty crappy.  Probably doesn't help that the main character in the demo was using swords, making the combat look really similar to fantasy MMO's.  Looked like a lot of button mashing while tons of numbers pop up above everyones' heads.  Maybe it was just a shit demo?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Ragnoros on January 12, 2009, 12:16:18 AM
Meh. Unimpressive.  Looks "Been there done that" + "assy" animations.

If they want to get my attention, show me something besides the same stuff I have been doing for years in CoX. I say that because IMO CoX NAILED fun combat years ago. I'm sure SoE/Cryptic can copy it just fine for the next go round.

DCUO and ChampO are going to be tested with their content and stickiness. Will I be doing anything more interesting then fighting randomly spawned groups of mobs standing around waiting for me to come SMASH them? Will there be anything reasonably fun to do other then killing arresting mobs?

Quick cheap shot: From the amount of times he died in that demo, it looks like they have already learned from Cryptic/Jack's Nerfbat Enhancement Diversification design Vision strategy.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: ashrik on January 12, 2009, 12:27:36 AM
Huh? That combat looked nothing like standard fantasy MMO combat to me. If anything, I'd say it was much more similar to a beat-em-up vibe they went for.

I'd guess that either the guy was playing it like a beat-em-up and mashing the attack button (as opposed to a series of different moves ala WoW), they spruced up the auto-attack to make it a lot more kinetic, or he had the entire combo bound as one of the four attack keys he had available.

Is it me or are they playing that on a Playstation?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on January 12, 2009, 12:29:32 AM
Quote
Is it me or are they playing that on a Playstation?

 :grin:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on January 12, 2009, 12:30:47 AM
Bah, there are too many COH/V curmudgeons in this thread  :awesome_for_real:

Seriously, though, I don't really care about PvE.  Superhero PvP in three dimensions done right would be fucking robot Jesus riding a rapture AND a raptor.  Although, it seems like it would be hard to get right without veering toward (A) continent-wide chases or (B) disabling all travel powers when people start hitting each other.  


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: ashrik on January 12, 2009, 12:36:23 AM
B Although, it seems like it would be hard to get right without veering toward (A) continent-wide chases or (B) disabling all travel powers when people start hitting each other.  
I can see either of these options being pretty cool.

Also, were you there at CES 09, Schild?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Ragnoros on January 12, 2009, 12:50:47 AM
Bah, there are too many COH/V curmudgeons in this thread  :awesome_for_real:

Get off my lawn! :geezer:

Seriously, though, I don't really care about PvE.  Superhero PvP in three dimensions done right would be fucking robot Jesus riding a rapture AND a raptor.  Although, it seems like it would be hard to get right without veering toward (A) continent-wide chases or (B) disabling all travel powers when people start hitting each other.  

I hate to say this, but it's for your own good. Don't get your hopes up.

CoX already did PvP. It ranged from broken to fairly passable. However, I do not believe "Raptor Riding Robot Jesus Awesome!" were ever used to describe it.

When it did "work" it was basically about jumping someone and either dropping them in a couple seconds before they had a chance to flee. Or using some control power to hold them in place while you did the deed.

Besides this is SOE, making a MMORPG. Not Valve / Double Fine / Team Ico / (your boner inducing developer of choice) creating a half indy, half big budget AAA title that will rock the foundations of gaming as we know it.



Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on January 12, 2009, 12:58:27 AM
Also, were you there at CES 09, Schild?

No, but I happen to live less than a mile from SOE Austin (and like 5 other gaming companies).


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Trippy on January 12, 2009, 01:02:12 AM
Maybe you should write about your experience there :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on January 12, 2009, 01:06:29 AM
Maybe you should write about your experience there :awesome_for_real:

I can tell you that I've almost finished my "punch through the internet" machine.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Velorath on January 12, 2009, 01:44:46 AM
Maybe you should write about your experience there :awesome_for_real:

I can tell you that I've almost finished my "punch through the internet" machine.

I'm sure it will be the greatest thing ever too once you get collision detection working.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Jack9 on January 12, 2009, 01:45:36 AM
I liked the idle graphics. A step up from CoH is a step up.
The animations seemed good until I saw the combat. Even the green targeting rings? seemed ugly. Sliding, unnatural movements (or just standing with crappy arm animations), knockdowns or damage without a clear indication of cause, especially for enemies and the main char, it all clashed with the nice textures.
I like the mechanics of faster movement via acrobatics, the wall sticking but air dashing up? Seems lazy. Air dash seems a lot like make acrobatics a crappy flying ability.

As to balance, if you put in PVP objectives, who cares if a flier goes up to avoid combat? PVP does not have to be synonymous with deathmatch.

Interesting to hear about, I have no enthusiasm toward it.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on January 12, 2009, 06:28:25 AM
CoX already did PvP. It ranged from broken to fairly passable. However, I do not believe "Raptor Riding Robot Jesus Awesome!" were ever used to describe it.

When it did "work" it was basically about jumping someone and either dropping them in a couple seconds before they had a chance to flee. Or using some control power to hold them in place while you did the deed.

CoH/V recently changed its PvP system to try to stop this kind of one-shot-or-run-away tactic. It wasn't a popular move among the PvPers who liked that kind of thing and I haven't tried out the new system.

DCUO is meant to be out on the PS3 and PC, but the last report was of problems in getting the PS3 and PC versions to talk to each other meaning they might need separate servers for each platform.

DCUO vs ChampO will be an interesting fight, especially since the only cross-over will be on the PC which would seem to be least friendly to "action RPGs" anyway.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Mrbloodworth on January 12, 2009, 06:38:48 AM
I like how doomsday was camping his corps (incap, whatever).


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Draegan on January 12, 2009, 07:16:50 AM
That looks pretty cool.  Then again I never made it passed level 10 in CoX.  I spent the majority of my time making characters.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on January 12, 2009, 10:00:59 AM
Maybe you should write about your experience there :awesome_for_real:

I can tell you that I've almost finished my "punch through the internet" machine.

I'm sure it will be the greatest thing ever too once you get collision detection working.
How'd you know that was my current problem?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Raguel on January 12, 2009, 10:07:09 AM

I like the "no mob fields" bit. The combat (outside of switching modes) sounds very 'meh'


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Mrbloodworth on January 12, 2009, 10:15:38 AM

I like the "no mob fields" bit. The combat (outside of switching modes) sounds very 'meh'

This sounds like its from SWG, AKA: mission terminals. It may also lead to the same issue, you accept mission...go to location, when you are near the location..it spawns everything, however anyone near there...just got a surprise, and potentially, just killed your targets.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Lantyssa on January 12, 2009, 11:17:42 AM
I can tell you that I've almost finished my "punch through the internet" machine.

I'm sure it will be the greatest thing ever too once you get collision detection working.
How'd you know that was my current problem?
Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier to go "punch through" with no collision detection?  ;D


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on January 12, 2009, 11:18:46 AM
I can tell you that I've almost finished my "punch through the internet" machine.
I'm sure it will be the greatest thing ever too once you get collision detection working.
How'd you know that was my current problem?
Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier to go "punch through" with no collision detection?  ;D
It's all about timing.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Ravanos on January 12, 2009, 11:53:28 AM
I just hope they do PVE raid content better than CoH/V ... though i guess that would be like asking a chef to make something that taste better than shit.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: HaemishM on January 12, 2009, 12:10:01 PM
Wow, I didn't know City of Heroes was getting a DC Universe skin server.  

Color me completely unimpressed. The gameplay looks like just about any other MMOG diku bullshit gameplay. I see no real upgrades from City of Heroes in terms of how the gameplay looks in combat.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: sidereal on January 12, 2009, 12:18:08 PM
So much of DCUO World of Warcraft reminds me of CoH/V Everquest it isn't funny

Just sayin.

It's been shown that refinement adds enormous value.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Draegan on January 12, 2009, 12:54:49 PM
Wow, I didn't know City of Heroes was getting a DC Universe skin server.  

Color me completely unimpressed. The gameplay looks like just about any other MMOG diku bullshit gameplay. I see no real upgrades from City of Heroes in terms of how the gameplay looks in combat.

What would you of been impressed with.  Not sure what people are looking for.  I never liked CoX.  I thought it was terribly boring and retarded.  This game looks a little more action packed and less grind?  Graphics look decent but the animations are shit.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: HaemishM on January 12, 2009, 12:59:41 PM
I'm looking for something that doesn't remind of EQ-style gameplay.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on January 12, 2009, 01:01:04 PM
Wow, I didn't know City of Heroes was getting a DC Universe skin server.  

Color me completely unimpressed. The gameplay looks like just about any other MMOG diku bullshit gameplay. I see no real upgrades from City of Heroes in terms of how the gameplay looks in combat.

There are, but I don't think they've announced them yet. They have, sort of, shown them, but you'd have to be playing to realize the major differences.

Edit: I'd say wait for game journalists to give impressions, but you know, game journalism. Lol.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Ghambit on January 12, 2009, 01:20:37 PM
The key to making a good Supers game is making sure the characters have distinct abilities, looks, powers, professions, and vices.  So far, from what I've seen of DCUO it's basically "you're all special and you all kick the same amount of carbon-copied ass."  I got no sense of originality from that demo that makes individual superheros what they really are... which is extremely unique and fatally flawed.  I mean cmon, "defense-mode?"  Are you serious?
Bah... junk

...next

p.s.
This is where Champo pwns DCUO.  ChampO stuck (hopefully) with the main tenets of supers gaming, largely since it was humpbacked on top of a proven pen/paper system more akin to traditional superheroes.  The powers and vices are customizable to the extreme, which is what it's all about really.  Otherwise, wtf are you actually playing?  WoW in pew pew spandex maybe?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: tmp on January 12, 2009, 01:50:37 PM
It's nice that the death cam defaults to an upskirt shot though  :oh_i_see:
What skirt  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on January 12, 2009, 02:04:15 PM
This looks great. Actiony, fast, doesn't look like an MMO at all. No target locking, cool. Enough collision detection to let players stick to sides of buildings, nice. Looked fluid enough at this stage. No idea on what the engine can support but we'll know that in time.

Contextual buttons: about freakin' time. The only reason most WoW interface screenshots have a few dozen buttons on them is because Blizzard hasn't felt the need to put contextual hotbutton bars in. But as we've all experienced, in any given encounter, you don't need instant access to a few dozen buttons anyway. 8 buttons at a time sounds about right.

In general the UI is not alienating to MMO players while works for console players (not the edge casers, but the average ones :wink: )

Having different stances per character is nice. No idea if that applies to all archetypes in DCUO, but it should.

Full health upon respawn is probably for testing/demoing only. This is SOE we're talking about here.

Yes, that appeared to be played on a PS3. All of the UI elements showed PS3 Controller icons (though there was that one sequence early on with a floating arrow cursor in the lower right).

I agree with Trippy on the faces. Nothing a mask can't solve  :awesome_for_real:

Wow, that was really kind of cool.  Very video gamish looking and less (traditional) MMO looking, but still which makes it very cool.

FIFY   :grin:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Ravanos on January 12, 2009, 02:25:00 PM
The key to making a good Supers game is making sure the characters have distinct abilities, looks, powers, professions, and vices.  So far, from what I've seen of DCUO it's basically "you're all special and you all kick the same amount of carbon-copied ass."  I got no sense of originality from that demo that makes individual superheros what they really are... which is extremely unique and fatally flawed.  I mean cmon, "defense-mode?"  Are you serious?

I think thats the thing i like about it actually, I hated the idea in CoH/V that you had to select an archtype ... when are superheroes tanks, dps, healers and crowd control?

DCUO seems more in line with a superhero theme, being able to switch your mode and what not. I mean i guess you can say that about every MMO setting but for superheroes the idea of no classes just seems to fit. I never saw superman as a tank - high defense no offense ... or Wolverine as a DPSer, no defense all offense.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Nevermore on January 12, 2009, 02:44:30 PM
Looks interesting.  On the plus side, I like the art design much more than ChampO and the graphics look nice.  The animations and power effects, on the other hand, look like crap.  Targeting and all that green shit looks pretty bad, too.  Acrobatics, at least the wall-sticking part, looks like fun.  The mid-air 'dash' looks kind of silly.  Picking up and throwing around objects is very nice.

I always liked the Guild Wars power swapping, so I'd like to see how that works out.  Missions look more dynamic than CoX, but that's hardly a surprise considering how old the latter game is getting.  Overall though, I think it looks too console-ish for my tastes.  It looks like it could be fun as a co-op sandbox type game (a la GTA or Saints Row), but as an MMO I'm skeptical.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on January 12, 2009, 05:59:19 PM
This game looks a little more action packed and less grind?  Graphics look decent but the animations are shit.

If you can tell the amount of grind in a MMO just by watching a dev video of an alpha build, you're a better man than I.

Again, I think this will work out better on the PS3 than PC.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: eldaec on January 12, 2009, 08:13:10 PM
This really looks a lot like CoX with only 4 powers.

I get that making a console mmog means taking some stuff out; but what gets added back in its place?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on January 12, 2009, 08:16:21 PM
I honestly don't think the whole console MMO thing is going to work.  No ability to send /tells?  Besides, every PS3 board I've seen where DCUO was discussed had various 9-14 year olds saying over and over "OMG MONTLY FEE?  WTF U R LAME OMG OMG I NEVR SAW THAT B4!11!"  The "continuing pay" mentality just isn't ingrained in console gamers. 

Again, to all of you saying THIS IS COX- wtf could they have done to a superhero MMO to have it NOT involve people flying, running fast, and shooting ice from their hands?  I just don't get the anger. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: eldaec on January 12, 2009, 08:18:42 PM
It isn't anger, it is apathy.

Having exactly the same super speed animation was a particularly weird moment.


What really does it is the overall art direction, which is 100% CoX.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on January 12, 2009, 08:22:02 PM
Well, some of us don't like COX, and are more into Wonder Woman. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: DLRiley on January 12, 2009, 08:29:07 PM
Wow, I didn't know City of Heroes was getting a DC Universe skin server.  

Color me completely unimpressed. The gameplay looks like just about any other MMOG diku bullshit gameplay. I see no real upgrades from City of Heroes in terms of how the gameplay looks in combat.

I see one person woke up on the wrong side of their World of Warcraft pillow.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: eldaec on January 12, 2009, 08:32:08 PM
Well, some of us don't like COX

Fair enough, but if you don't like cox, I don't know what is attracting you to DC. Other than Wonder Woman I mean.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Nevermore on January 12, 2009, 08:34:03 PM
Well, some of us don't like COX, and are more into Wonder Woman. 

I'm sure you are.  You still won't be able to tie her up (http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=34&Itemid=51&limitstart=3) in DCUO, though.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Ghambit on January 12, 2009, 08:34:18 PM
This really looks a lot like CoX with only 4 powers.

I get that making a console mmog means taking some stuff out; but what gets added back in its place?

This is kinda what I was saying.  The game seems very dumbed down and the supers pretty much seem all the same.  Granted, it's just 1 demo but it's not very compelling so far.
Someone said prior that they didnt want the standard holy trinity of mmos in their supers games.  Well, sorry to say... the holy trinity has ALWAYS been alive in well in the superhero genre long before DIKU was a glint in some nerd's eye.  Matter of fact, aside from Tolkien, the trinity itself largely comes from comic book superheros.  So yah, basically w/o tank, healer, etc... it's not a supers game IMO.

Batman cant suddenly say, "hey, I think I'm gonna be like Superman today."  Want your Batman to be like Superman?  Make another damned character.  Concurrently, if Batman (melee dps) expects a few chinese stars in the shape of bats would be enough to kill Doomsday, he's mistaken and I'd suggest he'd go get Superman (tank) and the Green Lantern (dps caster) to help.  In DCUO's case though, seems like they can just takes turns being eachother every once and a while.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on January 12, 2009, 08:36:29 PM
Well, some of us don't like COX

Fair enough, but if you don't like cox, I don't know what is attracting you to DC. Other than Wonder Woman I mean.

Woosh!!


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: eldaec on January 12, 2009, 08:41:52 PM
Well, some of us don't like COX

Fair enough, but if you don't like cox, I don't know what is attracting you to DC. Other than Wonder Woman I mean.

Woosh!!

I get the amusing cock joke, but didn't think you liked CoX either?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on January 12, 2009, 08:43:49 PM
I've never played it (I tried to download a free trial the other day, but the U.S. client link on the COX website just takes you to a screen where you can download the updater, not the client).  I simply don't care how close DCUO is to it.  Even if it is iterative, if it adds new stuff, it can be an amazing game.  Or, in other words, "I can like WoW even if I didn't like EQ."


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: eldaec on January 12, 2009, 08:47:52 PM
Then you may want to look at ChampO, and you can have 5 (or more) superpowers, and the nemesis thing looks cool.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: DLRiley on January 12, 2009, 08:51:57 PM
This really looks a lot like CoX with only 4 powers.

I get that making a console mmog means taking some stuff out; but what gets added back in its place?

This is kinda what I was saying.  The game seems very dumbed down and the supers pretty much seem all the same.  Granted, it's just 1 demo but it's not very compelling so far.
Someone said prior that they didnt want the standard holy trinity of mmos in their supers games.  Well, sorry to say... the holy trinity has ALWAYS been alive in well in the superhero genre long before DIKU was a glint in some nerd's eye.  Matter of fact, aside from Tolkien, the trinity itself largely comes from comic book superheros.  So yah, basically w/o tank, healer, etc... it's not a supers game IMO.

Batman cant suddenly say, "hey, I think I'm gonna be like Superman today."  Want your Batman to be like Superman?  Make another damned character.  Concurrently, if Batman (melee dps) expects a few chinese stars in the shape of bats would be enough to kill Doomsday, he's mistaken and I'd suggest he'd go get Superman (tank) and the Green Lantern (dps caster) to help.  In DCUO's case though, seems like they can just takes turns being eachother every once and a while.

Can't Superman out DPS the Green Latern and Batman combined....


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on January 12, 2009, 08:59:49 PM
Er, its a question of balance- obviously the different power sets and options have to have relatively the same power level.  There is no getting around that in an MMO.  Although it is ironic that Batman is pretty much the only guy you really CAN'T replicate in this game.  "Non-powered" individuals can be created, but they can still get meta-equivalent powers through gadgets.  Batman wasn't constantly wearing a flying suit or shooting an ice rifle, but if you didn't give that stuff to nonpowered characters in DCUO nobody would create them.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: DLRiley on January 12, 2009, 09:10:55 PM
Er, its a question of balance- obviously the different power sets and options have to have relatively the same power level.  There is no getting around that in an MMO.  Although it is ironic that Batman is pretty much the only guy you really CAN'T replicate in this game.  "Non-powered" individuals can be created, but they can still get meta-equivalent powers through gadgets.  Batman wasn't constantly wearing a flying suit or shooting an ice rifle, but if you didn't give that stuff to nonpowered characters in DCUO nobody would create them.

Batman has always fought with skill, intelligence, and  :drill:. No need to balance Batman, you need to be  :drill: to use him. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on January 12, 2009, 09:16:14 PM
How many of Batman's villains have actual powers?  I can only think of Clayface and Poison Ivy, and their abilities are relatively minor.  There is a reason you didn't often see him going 1v1 with the face-melting types Superman faced. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on January 12, 2009, 09:19:13 PM
Again, to all of you saying THIS IS COX- wtf could they have done to a superhero MMO to have it NOT involve people flying, running fast, and shooting ice from their hands?  I just don't get the anger. 

It's not anger, it's "oh hey, SOE really have copied a lot of CoH/V here, haven't they?". I mean, pick two powers and a power source is very close to pick two powers and an origin - the big change is to pick your travel power at launch. If DCUO evolves CoH/V's style and improves it, then good for them (but bad for CoH/V).

Where I think it will fall down for PC gamers are the controls - four powers at once plus active movement is less convenient on keyboard and mouse than controller.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on January 12, 2009, 09:21:41 PM
How many of Batman's villains have actual powers?  I can only think of Clayface and Poison Ivy, and their abilities are relatively minor.  There is a reason you didn't often see him going 1v1 with the face-melting types Superman faced. 

It's horses for courses. A lot of Batman's villains are enhanced humans - Bane's strength, Firebug's flame suit, Joker's poison and bombs, etc.

Plus Batman can beat anyone if he has time to plan. :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: DLRiley on January 12, 2009, 09:26:28 PM
How many of Batman's villains have actual powers?  I can only think of Clayface and Poison Ivy, and their abilities are relatively minor.  There is a reason you didn't often see him going 1v1 with the face-melting types Superman faced. 

Batman is a member of the alien invasion stopping, doomsday fighting, justice league. And besides how many times has Batman saved Sup's ass? Batman is  :drill:. No need to pussy him up with mmo bullshit.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: ezrast on January 12, 2009, 09:37:02 PM
(I tried to download a free trial the other day, but the U.S. client link on the COX website just takes you to a screen where you can download the updater, not the client)
The CoX updater is the client. Or rather, it downloads the client - just run it and go make a cup of tea or fifty. I was under the impression that this was how most MMOs worked.

Anyway... the swappable roles could be a bad thing if it means every character can do everything equally well, but that's not necessarily the case. It could just be a mechanic to allow you to fudge party composition to be "good enough", i.e. make it so that you're not totally screwed if you have a party of five DPS (but still not be as good as having a true tank/healer/controller/whatever).

Anything that makes it easier to PUG is a good thing in my book.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Big Gulp on January 12, 2009, 10:15:19 PM
Then you may want to look at ChampO, and you can have 5 (or more) superpowers, and the nemesis thing looks cool.

Except that it's got the tainted hands of Jack Emmert all over it, while DCUO doesn't.

I swore I'd never touch another one of his games again, and I meant it.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on January 12, 2009, 10:38:55 PM
Then you may want to look at ChampO, and you can have 5 (or more) superpowers, and the nemesis thing looks cool.

Except that it's got the tainted hands of Jack Emmert all over it, while DCUO doesn't.

I swore I'd never touch another one of his games again, and I meant it.

Will you be able to survive missing Star Trek Online?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: ezrast on January 12, 2009, 10:49:28 PM
What did Jack Emmert do? Is there a story somewhere I should read?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Nevermore on January 12, 2009, 10:55:48 PM
He dared to nerf, which is unheard of in MMOs!


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on January 12, 2009, 11:00:39 PM
What did Jack Emmert do? Is there a story somewhere I should read?

He was an executive involved with MMOs.  Any executive involved with an MMO will be the subject of fanatic hatred eternally when Class X in his game has its aggro reduction coefficient reduced from .5 to .48.   Its like if you wanted to go to McDonalds with someone who liked their food, but instead the person screamed at you that the current CEO was CEO of Burger King during that one time on February 8th, 1987 when his burger had too much ketchup on it. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Velorath on January 12, 2009, 11:04:24 PM
I'm looking for something that doesn't remind of EQ-style gameplay.

It might have helped if the characters that were being shown off in the demo were fighting with superpowers rather than swords and guns.  Even the bad guys (except for Doomsday) all seemed like boring cannon fodder who just stood there firing guns.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Senses on January 12, 2009, 11:25:24 PM
Well, the fact that it does look like CoX, and yes it does completely remind anyone who has ever played that game of exactly the same thing with a little bit brighter coloring and a new UI, doesn't really bother me.  CoX was a ton of fun as far as character design and fighting.  The real issue is whether or not DCU will correct the huge flaws that CoX had that had nothing to do with shiny capes, superspeed or fun gameplay, and that was a horrible repetitive quest grind that had you seemingly repeating the same areas over and over.  By lvl 12 you had seen the same map so many times that any redeeming qualities the game had simply weren't worth it.  If all DCU does is fix that, it will probably be amazing.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on January 12, 2009, 11:30:32 PM
I'm looking for something that doesn't remind of EQ-style gameplay.

It might have helped if the characters that were being shown off in the demo were fighting with superpowers rather than swords and guns.  Even the bad guys (except for Doomsday) all seemed like boring cannon fodder who just stood there firing guns.

I liked how the standard uniform for Lexcorp security forces is a blue jogging suit.  


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: ezrast on January 13, 2009, 12:08:57 AM
Maybe I just have a hazy memory of CoV (never played a hero so I can't speak for that side), and that haze has a delightful strawberry aroma that makes the game seem more fun than it really was, but the movie really never made me think "That looks just like CoV." CoV combat was mainly standing in one place trying to decide which of your 20 available powers to use next; DCUO seems to have more mobility and world interaction (throwing cars) with the tradeoff of more button mashy combat.

Anyway, CoX did a lot of things that really need to become standard in MMORPGs, so even if ChampO and DCU just end up being CoX 2 and Cox 1.5 I'll be relatively happy. Better than trying to out-WoW WoW.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Velorath on January 13, 2009, 12:40:11 AM
CoV combat was mainly standing in one place trying to decide which of your 20 available powers to use next; DCUO seems to have more mobility and world interaction (throwing cars) with the tradeoff of more button mashy combat.

Combat here seems to be just standing in one place and whacking on an enemy until he's down as well.  Whenever he starts running around and attacking enemies at random he seems to get his ass kicked.  Mobility doesn't actually seem to do the characters much good as you can see them steadily take damage no matter how much they run around.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Margalis on January 13, 2009, 01:42:11 AM
The combat certainly doesn't look anything like a bona-fide action game.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Fordel on January 13, 2009, 02:06:19 AM
It looked like WoW combat, but sped up and with more jumping and button mashing. Maybe it feels different when you actually play it /shrug



I also wouldn't fret too much over 'only 8 skills' or whatever. Guild Wars follows a similar implementation and I'd hardly call the combat 'dumed down' or what have you. Even in WoW, most people only ever actually use half a dozen skills 90% of the time.


My question is what kind of machine will it run on for the PC? I enjoy the art style for the most part, and it looks pretty smooth, but what kind of system do you think will be required?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Trippy on January 13, 2009, 04:45:05 AM
What did Jack Emmert do? Is there a story somewhere I should read?
He was an executive involved with MMOs.  Any executive involved with an MMO will be the subject of fanatic hatred eternally when Class X in his game has its aggro reduction coefficient reduced from .5 to .48.   Its like if you wanted to go to McDonalds with someone who liked their food, but instead the person screamed at you that the current CEO was CEO of Burger King during that one time on February 8th, 1987 when his burger had too much ketchup on it. 
Jack Emmert aka "Statesman" was the lead designer on City of Heroes and was responsible for the arguably the greatest series of global nerfs in NA MMORPG history (not counting major system replacements like SWG's NGE). People like Brad McQuaid and Gordon Wrinn (aka "Abashi" aka "Abashi's Rod of Disempowerment" aka the "Nerf Bat") are total amateurs compared to the nerfing prowess of Statesman.

Now some of the nerfs were in fact necessary because of initial blunders in the game design (e.g. not having target caps on AoE powers). However the worst global nerf, aka "Enhancement Diversification" aka "ED", was put into place because Jack thought players were too powerful. This in a game of fucking *SUPER HEROES*.

The game had/has many innovative features but for every one of them there were/are equally brain-damaged design decisions to offset the innovative ones. Thanks to Jack's "Vision" for the game, though, they didn't try and fix some of the crappier parts of the game until he was out of the picture but by then it was too late to grow the game beyond a certain level.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Trippy on January 13, 2009, 04:56:30 AM
The key to making a good Supers game is making sure the characters have distinct abilities, looks, powers, professions, and vices.  So far, from what I've seen of DCUO it's basically "you're all special and you all kick the same amount of carbon-copied ass."  I got no sense of originality from that demo that makes individual superheros what they really are... which is extremely unique and fatally flawed.  I mean cmon, "defense-mode?"  Are you serious?

I think thats the thing i like about it actually, I hated the idea in CoH/V that you had to select an archtype ... when are superheroes tanks, dps, healers and crowd control?

DCUO seems more in line with a superhero theme, being able to switch your mode and what not. I mean i guess you can say that about every MMO setting but for superheroes the idea of no classes just seems to fit. I never saw superman as a tank - high defense no offense ... or Wolverine as a DPSer, no defense all offense.
Without knowing more about character building/advancement it's hard to say if "mode" switching is simply their way of handling the problem of how to activate powers from a set larger than can be reasonably handled by a console controller or if in fact for any character you can be a "tank" or "blaster" or "support" or whatever depending on what mode you are in a la Matrix Online.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Big Gulp on January 13, 2009, 06:19:59 AM
Will you be able to survive missing Star Trek Online?

I despise Star Trek, so this is no big loss for me.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on January 13, 2009, 08:05:29 AM
Then you may want to look at ChampO, and you can have 5 (or more) superpowers, and the nemesis thing looks cool.

Except that it's got the tainted hands of Jack Emmert all over it, while DCUO doesn't.

I swore I'd never touch another one of his games again, and I meant it.

Good thing DCUO is coming from SOE, which has no history of doing anything vaguely similar like nerfing.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on January 13, 2009, 08:14:09 AM
What did Jack Emmert do? Is there a story somewhere I should read?
He was an executive involved with MMOs.  Any executive involved with an MMO will be the subject of fanatic hatred eternally when Class X in his game has its aggro reduction coefficient reduced from .5 to .48.   Its like if you wanted to go to McDonalds with someone who liked their food, but instead the person screamed at you that the current CEO was CEO of Burger King during that one time on February 8th, 1987 when his burger had too much ketchup on it. 
Jack Emmert aka "Statesman" was the lead designer on City of Heroes and was responsible for the arguably the greatest series of global nerfs in NA MMORPG history (not counting major system replacements like SWG's NGE). People like Brad McQuaid and Gordon Wrinn (aka "Abashi" aka "Abashi's Rod of Disempowerment" aka the "Nerf Bat") are total amateurs compared to the nerfing prowess of Statesman.

Now some of the nerfs were in fact necessary because of initial blunders in the game design (e.g. not having target caps on AoE powers). However the worst global nerf, aka "Enhancement Diversification" aka "ED", was put into place because Jack thought players were too powerful. This in a game of fucking *SUPER HEROES*.

The game had/has many innovative features but for every one of them there were/are equally brain-damaged design decisions to offset the innovative ones. Thanks to Jack's "Vision" for the game, though, they didn't try and fix some of the crappier parts of the game until he was out of the picture but by then it was too late to grow the game beyond a certain level.

In the design of CoH some basic mistake with powers we designed in. Things like no AOE caps, defence that stacked in an additive rather than multiplicative way (meaning that each bit of defence you got was substantially better than the last piece), certain ATs were nigh invulnerable, etc. The biggest issue imo was the power gap between the best and gimpiest powerset combos.

Emmert saw in a number of changes - good and bad - that angried up the blood of a lot of CoH/V players. A major issue was saying "No more nerfs to powers", but then changing how the enhancement system worked which nerfed powers (which, in Emmert's defence, he did apologise for because he saw powers and enhancements as separate systems when he made the comment).

A lot of forum warriors don't like his legacy, but a lot of things come down to inexperience and the fact that no lead dev of a MMO escapes the wrath of a character nerfed (although Positron, the current lead, avoids a lot of flack since the powers guy, Castle, posts a lot in the forums).


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: HaemishM on January 13, 2009, 08:31:06 AM
Again, to all of you saying THIS IS COX- wtf could they have done to a superhero MMO to have it NOT involve people flying, running fast, and shooting ice from their hands?  I just don't get the anger. 

As was said before, it's not anger... it's angst. It's the ennui that comes with having seen it all before. The ONLY thing in there that didn't look like Yet Another Fucking DIKU (only with SUPERHEROES!) was the car tossing thing. And they didn't seem to use that very well.

It looked like "stand around and mash your special abilities while your opponent stands there and mashes his special abilities" and that was it. That can be fun, but it's certainly nothing to get excited about.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Murgos on January 13, 2009, 09:21:53 AM
It really looked like a lot of MOTS to me.  The city-scape looks the same as CoX, Characters looked very similar to CoX, the one screen with the point assignment to powers and skills looked very similar to enhancements and etc...

The fact that you can decide to place points into stats that make a difference, the example being leveling up strength to pick up a bus, is great through.  Most MMO's play lip service to the traditional RPG character differentiators so it's nice to see someone embracing it.

Even though it looked like MOTS I'll still probably try it.  CoH, pre-nerfs, was one of the more enjoyable experiences I've had.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Draegan on January 13, 2009, 10:12:34 AM
I'd love to see some different settings other than just a shitty city or generic lab or something.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Velorath on January 13, 2009, 03:17:40 PM
One more thing, (and forgive me here for a moment of nerd rage) but even with Superman's help a lv. 25 hero (which they said is mid-range) with swords is expected to fight Doomsday?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on January 13, 2009, 04:37:58 PM
Read the comis carefully.  I don't believe Doomsday has ever been killed with swords before- thus, its quite possible  :grin:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Murgos on January 13, 2009, 04:56:49 PM
One more thing, (and forgive me here for a moment of nerd rage) but even with Superman's help a lv. 25 hero (which they said is mid-range) with swords is expected to fight Doomsday?

I'd rather have that than 'raid content'.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Fordel on January 13, 2009, 05:07:08 PM
She was clearly just the distraction and Superman was supposed to blind side Doomsday. Except Superman looked to have gotten bugged out into a wall near the end.


That, or he just decided to watch her die half a dozen times. Super Dick  :grin:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on January 13, 2009, 05:26:19 PM
Read the comis carefully.  I don't believe Doomsday has ever been killed with swords before- thus, its quite possible  :grin:

In Superman vs Doomsday two, before Superman drops Doomsday into infinity, Mother Box equips him with a sword that can cut Doomsday. He does so, and it's at this point that we're clear that the latter is basically one solid biomass (no separate organs, all done through the rather extreme method of forced evolution and learning cells used to create him)*. The sword doesn't kill him, but he can be cut and therefore damaged with one.

* this is all from memory, and that itself is, what, 15 years ago now? It may have been Supermna vs Doomsday 3, but I think that was the one where the end up on Apocolyps


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on January 13, 2009, 07:25:39 PM
One more thing, (and forgive me here for a moment of nerd rage) but even with Superman's help a lv. 25 hero (which they said is mid-range) with swords is expected to fight Doomsday?

Welcome to the world where Batman-inspired characters will DPS Darkseid into a fine grey mist.

I don't think powers balancing will have been done yet.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Nevermore on January 13, 2009, 07:41:45 PM
Read the comis carefully.  I don't believe Doomsday has ever been killed with swords before- thus, its quite possible  :grin:

In Superman vs Doomsday two, before Superman drops Doomsday into infinity, Mother Box equips him with a sword that can cut Doomsday. He does so, and it's at this point that we're clear that the latter is basically one solid biomass (no separate organs, all done through the rather extreme method of forced evolution and learning cells used to create him)*. The sword doesn't kill him, but he can be cut and therefore damaged with one.

* this is all from memory, and that itself is, what, 15 years ago now? It may have been Supermna vs Doomsday 3, but I think that was the one where the end up on Apocolyps

And this is just a small, tame look at what the DCUO boards will look like.  An MMO using an IP with a 50+ year history.  It'll be thousands of Comic Book Guys arguing over every minutia of every established character that ends up in the game.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on January 13, 2009, 07:51:43 PM
DCUO has to deal with things that comics can overlook, like how Batman isn't killed every time he faces Sinestro. The Green Lantern, armed with a power ring that can do pretty much anything his imagination wants, has trouble with Sinestro (who has his own yellow ring), so Sinestro should have no issue with a man in a bat costume.

Instead, Batman will end up with stats around the same as Superman and the forum wars will begin.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on January 13, 2009, 08:25:53 PM
Heh, perhaps that's the reason they have that godawful Myspace page instead of a real website with forums.  Listening to "OMG GREEN LANTERN'S COSTUME HAS WRINKLES AND THE POWER RING PREVENTS THAT IN THE COMICS" would probably get tiresome. 

EDIT:  But on second thought, D.C. comic fans are used to this kind of stuff.  Every single run of even the same character has that person in a different outfit, the city looks different, his origin has been retconned, the Joker can stand toe to toe with Batman in single combat for an extended length of time and then in the next run he's down with one punch, etc.  This is the one place where saying "a wizard did it" when people whine about continuity is actually a valid response. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: eldaec on January 13, 2009, 09:13:26 PM
What did Jack Emmert do? Is there a story somewhere I should read?

He was in charge of a level based diku mmog when they corrected a few obvious balance problems.

That's all.

But you know how some people get.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Trippy on January 13, 2009, 09:43:49 PM
DCUO has to deal with things that comics can overlook, like how Batman isn't killed every time he faces Sinestro. The Green Lantern, armed with a power ring that can do pretty much anything his imagination wants, has trouble with Sinestro (who has his own yellow ring), so Sinestro should have no issue with a man in a bat costume.

Instead, Batman will end up with stats around the same as Superman and the forum wars will begin.
DCUO doesn't have to deal with those things if Batman never fights Sinestro. I.e. you are somehow assuming that there are missions for every NPC Hero to fight every NPC Villain.



Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: SnakeCharmer on January 13, 2009, 09:54:53 PM
That's a helluva cross reference to put together.  I wouldn't want to be the intern that had to go research that.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on January 13, 2009, 09:56:54 PM
There are plenty of opportunities for Batman to fight his own rogues gallery, even if you didn't repeat a villain (and of course they will), you can still create dozens of different instances. 

I just want to help Ambush Bug. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on January 13, 2009, 11:37:04 PM
DCUO has to deal with things that comics can overlook, like how Batman isn't killed every time he faces Sinestro. The Green Lantern, armed with a power ring that can do pretty much anything his imagination wants, has trouble with Sinestro (who has his own yellow ring), so Sinestro should have no issue with a man in a bat costume.

Instead, Batman will end up with stats around the same as Superman and the forum wars will begin.
DCUO doesn't have to deal with those things if Batman never fights Sinestro. I.e. you are somehow assuming that there are missions for every NPC Hero to fight every NPC Villain.

Hmm, perhaps. Perhaps only Superman villains hang around Metropolis while Batman villains stay around Gotham.

On the other hand, Batman and Superman do team up against some odd opponents:

(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/thumb/a/a6/Superman_and_Batman_vs._Aliens_and_Predators_2.jpg/350px-Superman_and_Batman_vs._Aliens_and_Predators_2.jpg)

I'm sure that Batman-based characters will want to be able to fight everyone but not be outpowered by Superman-based characters. (It cuts both ways - Superman should be able to put the Joker in prison in about 5/10ths of a second, but doesn't).

And Tri: all of those retcons, changes, mistakes and soap operas just leaves more fertile ground for nerds to run riot. If you choose to ignore that you are arguing which fictional power fantasy can beat up which other fictional power fantasy in an explosion of testosterone and homoeroticism, the world can be your oyster.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on February 08, 2009, 04:19:29 AM
More infos coming out of New York Comic Con!!  Here is the most comprehensive random-conventiongoer-impression I've seen written up so far:

http://dcuosource.com/index.php/topic,335.0.html

Swinging and teleportation=gud.  Power emanation points and power coloring= double plus gud. 

Also, new trailers up at Gametrailers- http://www.gametrailers.com/game/8708.html?sort=date#Content

EDIT:  new info on PvP- http://www.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=16853#comments



Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on February 08, 2009, 05:25:29 AM
Having watched those videos, I see some things I think will be design flaws, like world PvP surrounding PvE missions and the how the character creation system is proposed (Origin, Power Source, Weapon, Travel Power).

But we'll see at launch. Or beta. I'm pretty sure some things are going to change markedly based on player feedback. Although, this is SOE, so history probably isn't in our favour on that...


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on February 08, 2009, 05:38:51 AM
I'm a bit skeptical about integrated PvP as well, but I'd like to see it tried again. WAR I thought had some good ideas subjugated by completely misunderstanding how players actually play. But there's still worthwhile exploration to build upon. After all this time it still Could(tm) be cool to have optional quests with each side having a competing objective in the same area.

As to the creation system, I actually like that travel power is a separate tree from the Primary/Secondary pool of CoH. This way you're not being asked to compromise your advancement along the power curve. Also means you could get a travel power right away rather than having to wait 5-10 hours of /played.

Finally, I'm just happy to see what looks like it could be* a fun game from SOE. It's been a very long time.

* usual MMO veteran conditions in place of course.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Goreschach on February 08, 2009, 05:48:49 AM
One thing to keep in mind is that if the travel powers are anything like in CO, it'll be a whole lot easier to avoid or escape pvp if you want to.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on February 08, 2009, 06:12:38 AM
True. But it'll then run into CoH/V's PvP problem of every time one side looks like it'll lose, they run away at high speed. It's stuff like that I expect to see get changed before launch.

DCUO's death penalty sounds interesting: it has none. 10 seconds to wait for a respawn and you can choose to start where you fell or a short, safe distance away. There's been some talk of player deaths incurring time penalties on missions (so if you die, it's only 10 seconds to wait, but you might lose 60 seconds off the mission clock) but again, it is probably yet to be fully decided. However, this really just promotes the idea of a war of attrition against anything that doesn't have a penalty.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on February 08, 2009, 06:16:49 AM
That DCUO source writeup I mentioned said that Speedsters and acrobats have ways to permanently stay with fliers (grappling cable for acrobats, "static/magnetic cling" for speedsters).  The Allakazam article also said that CC could rein in fliers (notice the dev quote in that article saying "Crowd control will play a big part in this game"  :why_so_serious:).

So, sounds like they realize the potential issues.   


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on February 08, 2009, 06:39:25 AM
DCUO's death penalty sounds interesting: it has none. 10 seconds to wait for a respawn and you can choose to start where you fell or a short, safe distance away. There's been some talk of player deaths incurring time penalties on missions (so if you die, it's only 10 seconds to wait, but you might lose 60 seconds off the mission clock) but again, it is probably yet to be fully decided. However, this really just promotes the idea of a war of attrition against anything that doesn't have a penalty.

Wow, it really sounds like a new world order over at SOE. No XP loss? No crushing respawn point? I can easily except time penalities, as long as not every mission isn't time-based. 10 second respawn to spawn at your location sounds better than Godeasymode WoW.

Still not at the "hope" stage yet of course. Too many years of aggressive death penalties to atone for :grin:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Malakili on February 08, 2009, 08:55:32 AM
Both CO and DCUO seem interesting in that I do enjoy me some Super Heroes.  However, in general the DC universe is just not all that appealing to me.  I'd much prefer something else.  However, DCUO seems like is has better mechanics thus far, and a better concept.

Ah well.  Most likely I'll play both for a couple months before adding them to my ever growing shelf of "I don't play it anymore"


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: eldaec on February 08, 2009, 12:40:27 PM
  However, DCUO seems like is has better mechanics thus far, and a better concept.


What differences have you identified other than 'you can only have 5 super powers in DC'?

Even the death penalty thing is meaningless other than in how it contributes to overall grind,and assumptions that DC will have little overall grind seem.... unwise.



Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on February 08, 2009, 12:59:58 PM
Having no handson, I'm going only by the videos and the reports. DCUO seems much more actiony, quicker, not much in the way of target locking (though it appears to be there), more in the spirit of 1 vs 4 that was old CoH. CO meanwhile seems a bit more like what CoH became later in its life. Maybe great for CoH players, but the general audience would have shown up long ago if there was something there to attract them.

Add to that then the much more known IP and the marketing and sales support it brings, and as long as SOE isn't trying to make it 2003 again, things should work out very well for them.

If this was a few years ago I'd be waiting for DCUO to fail simply because SOE was working on it. But all of the things that have been screwed up since EQ2 weren't internally developed.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Malakili on February 08, 2009, 01:02:12 PM
  However, DCUO seems like is has better mechanics thus far, and a better concept.


What differences have you identified other than 'you can only have 5 super powers in DC'?

Even the death penalty thing is meaningless other than in how it contributes to overall grind,and assumptions that DC will have little overall grind seem.... unwise.



PvP mainly.  CO has none to speak of aside from an arena from what I can tell.  DCUO is still too early in development to know for sure, but they are claiming contested objectives and guild based PvP.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on February 08, 2009, 04:40:17 PM
The screaming over contested PvP will see it reduced in scope. Guaranteed.

Unless they really don't want the mainstream MMO audience and are happy with PS3 players and DC fanbois with PCs.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on February 08, 2009, 05:18:54 PM
Really depends on the implementation.

If it's "You kill X of Y" while your opponent is "You kill the player trying to kill X of Y", that's going to cause the screaming that causes the rethink, handsdown. Assymetrical PvP (where one side is chasing mobs while the other is chasing players) sucks.

But if it's "You attack this place to get this thing" while your opponent has" you defend", symmetrical PvP, welp that'll work just fine.

As long as it's a side quest and not something that prevents you from going from level 19 to 20.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Draegan on February 08, 2009, 06:08:41 PM
Having no handson, I'm going only by the videos and the reports. DCUO seems much more actiony, quicker, not much in the way of target locking (though it appears to be there), more in the spirit of 1 vs 4 that was old CoH. CO meanwhile seems a bit more like what CoH became later in its life. Maybe great for CoH players, but the general audience would have shown up long ago if there was something there to attract them.

Add to that then the much more known IP and the marketing and sales support it brings, and as long as SOE isn't trying to make it 2003 again, things should work out very well for them.

If this was a few years ago I'd be waiting for DCUO to fail simply because SOE was working on it. But all of the things that have been screwed up since EQ2 weren't internally developed.

I played both today.

DCUO is meant for a console and champo is meant for the PC.  I have videos from both games so I'll post them when I do a whole writeup sometime this week.  But in DCUO you have 8 abilities across the bottom.  You have the four PS button for your first four abilities.  Then when you want to use the second four abilities you press a button and the four PS buttons switch to the second set.

It's very actiony and plays like any other action type game in 3d.  I think one of the major issues will be in PVP and terrible camera control.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on February 08, 2009, 06:53:28 PM
Did they have any PC playables there at all? I've heard it's only PS3 controllers. I just want to believe the PC port is going to be top shelf given its SOE.

The number of abilities don't bother me. I'm used to only needing 6-8 per specific situation anyway. As long as it's easy to shift between modes (like the offense/defense thing mentioned), it's all good.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on February 08, 2009, 06:59:27 PM
Did they have any PC playables there at all? I've heard it's only PS3 controllers. I just want to believe the PC port is going to be top shelf given its SOE.

It's always been PC playable. I played it first on the PC, but all you had to do was pick up the PS3 controller and the motion sensitive shit made the GUI switch to PS3 controls. This is all through a computer. I'll be honest, it was one of the slickest things I've seen in a long, long time.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on February 08, 2009, 07:00:36 PM
Ah cool, forgot to consider the PS3 controller on a PC.

What will they think of next... :geezer:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on February 08, 2009, 07:42:50 PM
Ah cool, forgot to consider the PS3 controller on a PC.

What will they think of next... :geezer:
Recent footage has been running on a PS3 though, so I can see the confusion, insane as it is.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Draegan on February 09, 2009, 05:28:34 AM
I only saw PS3 controllers so I assumed it was all PS3 based at the show.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Nevermore on February 09, 2009, 07:11:44 AM
(notice the dev quote in that article saying "Crowd control will play a big part in this game"  :why_so_serious:).

Danger Will Robinson, Danger!


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on February 09, 2009, 07:29:13 AM
I only saw PS3 controllers so I assumed it was all PS3 based at the show.
At the show it might've been. Much easier to haul around a few PS3s than computers. Makes booths easier also.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Draegan on February 09, 2009, 08:39:36 AM
I lied.  Apparently I found some footage I took with it being used with a keyboard/mouse I think, since the abilities are numbered 1-4.  Hmmm.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on February 09, 2009, 03:44:43 PM
I've seen footage with an onscreen Windows cursor. Just didn't see it from show footage.

Regardless, it better work exceedingly well with mouselook. None of this crap about sluggish controllers for balance. It feels like it does in other games or it'll feel like a crappy port. No matter how good it looks.

But I'm still hopeful.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on February 09, 2009, 04:00:47 PM
I've seen footage with an onscreen Windows cursor. Just didn't see it from show footage.

Regardless, it better work exceedingly well with mouselook. None of this crap about sluggish controllers for balance. It feels like it does in other games or it'll feel like a crappy port. No matter how good it looks.

But I'm still hopeful.
It works fine. In fact, last I played it, it was a bit too fast on both the keyboard/mouse and controller variants. I imagine I could've screwed around with the mouse speed options, but hey, I wasn't playing it for that.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on February 09, 2009, 05:03:30 PM
Ok. Will need to hit the next convention that comes along then  :grin:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on February 09, 2009, 07:00:09 PM
Just as an update (http://dcuosource.com/index.php/topic,335.15.html): swinging isn't a travel power in DCUO and power colour customisation isn't either.

EDIT: fixed the link. Look at Jens Anderson's post.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on February 09, 2009, 07:31:04 PM
You got all that from Darniaq's last post (which you just linked)?   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on February 09, 2009, 10:12:12 PM
You got all that from Darniaq's last post (which you just linked)?   :oh_i_see:

I copied the wrong tag.



Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on February 09, 2009, 10:17:30 PM
Ah, I see.  Well I guess that makes sense...silhouetting is all the rage these days in PvP. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Lantyssa on February 10, 2009, 08:46:32 AM
And PvP once again causes the removal of cool features.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on February 10, 2009, 09:20:05 AM
Just as an update (http://dcuosource.com/index.php/topic,335.15.html): swinging isn't a travel power in DCUO and power colour customisation isn't either.

EDIT: fixed the link. Look at Jens Anderson's post.

Err, ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but Misanthrope in the first post of that thread said they're adding swinging as a movement power and that they ARE planning to have power coloring.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Draegan on February 10, 2009, 11:09:23 AM
I took 4 videos at the comic con if you guys wanna check em out.

Edit because YouTube stinks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTOswZmVOIA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmY9TBNltW0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JLbZtxy2iQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDGpnB-QyZc


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on February 10, 2009, 06:46:38 PM
Just as an update (http://dcuosource.com/index.php/topic,335.15.html): swinging isn't a travel power in DCUO and power colour customisation isn't either.

EDIT: fixed the link. Look at Jens Anderson's post.

Err, ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but Misanthrope in the first post of that thread said they're adding swinging as a movement power and that they ARE planning to have power coloring.

Then a dev came along and corrected him. The dev's name? Jens Anderson! Unfortunately I didn't see an option to link to a post, so I had to link the entire thread.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on February 10, 2009, 06:59:22 PM
Ah, this post (http://dcuosource.com/index.php?topic=335.msg2767#msg2767) then.

Quote
There is no swinging in our game.  The visual weirdness that single player games get away with using "off camera" anchor points won;t hold up in a multiplayer environment.  Also, we need to make sure that all the travel powers are valid even if you don;t have buildings to swing from, like in a desert
...
Tinting of powers is something we reserve for NPCs.
Ok, well at least that's settled. :-)


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Sunbury on February 11, 2009, 05:12:50 AM
I loved the old spider-man cartoons, where he'd be swinging straight down the middle of a street, shooting webs left and right.
 
I could never figure out the physics of that, since he should swing into the building.

Of course it was funnier when the buildings he passed were lower than he was...


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Nevermore on February 11, 2009, 06:05:58 AM
Quote
Tinting of powers is something we reserve for NPCs.

Dumbass.  Power customization alone could have poached a significant portion of players from CoX.  Matt Miller probably had a big grin on his face when he read that.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Big Gulp on February 11, 2009, 08:16:27 AM
Dumbass.  Power customization alone could have poached a significant portion of players from CoX.  Matt Miller probably had a big grin on his face when he read that.

No doubt.  That's something that's so simple to implement and goes such a long way towards player happiness I've got to think it's moronic not to allow it.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Malakili on February 11, 2009, 08:17:31 AM
I loved the old spider-man cartoons, where he'd be swinging straight down the middle of a street, shooting webs left and right.
 
I could never figure out the physics of that, since he should swing into the building.

Of course it was funnier when the buildings he passed were lower than he was...

Dude, this is SPIDER MAN we are talking about.  You think he cares about the laws of physics.   SPIDER MAN. :uhrr:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 11, 2009, 09:06:28 AM
Dumbass.  Power customization alone could have poached a significant portion of players from CoX.  Matt Miller probably had a big grin on his face when he read that.

No doubt.  That's something that's so simple to implement and goes such a long way towards player happiness I've got to think it's moronic not to allow it.

Did you read and understand the reasoning? I think they made the right choice.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Lantyssa on February 11, 2009, 09:53:48 AM
Depends upon your feeling about PvP impacting PvE and character customization.

To us it is the wrong choice.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Big Gulp on February 11, 2009, 09:59:24 AM
Depends upon your feeling about PvP impacting PvE and character customization.

To us it is the wrong choice.

Bingo.  I'd much rather be able to customize as many aspects of my character as possible rather than be able to instantly identify what another player hit me with.  Customization is what makes these games, and I always considered CoX's set power animations to be one of their big weaknesses.

It's a judgment call on the developers part, I just think they blew it.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: sidereal on February 11, 2009, 09:59:40 AM
My feelings about PvP affecting PvE would make your eyes bleed were I to type them out.  


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Big Gulp on February 11, 2009, 10:01:35 AM
Just to clarify, my method of playing CoH wasn't to make the most efficient build, it was to come up with a cohesive character concept.  Stuff like this doesn't help out with that goal.  Of course, if you're a munchkin you don't much care about that, but then if you're a munchkin you should die in a car fire.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: kildorn on February 11, 2009, 10:14:23 AM
Just to clarify, my method of playing CoH wasn't to make the most efficient build, it was to come up with a cohesive character concept.  Stuff like this doesn't help out with that goal.  Of course, if you're a munchkin you don't much care about that, but then if you're a munchkin you should die in a car fire.

It would be the most efficient car fire for dying in, however.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Lantyssa on February 11, 2009, 11:00:19 AM
Just to clarify, my method of playing CoH wasn't to make the most efficient build, it was to come up with a cohesive character concept.  Stuff like this doesn't help out with that goal.  Of course, if you're a munchkin you don't much care about that, but then if you're a munchkin you should die in a car fire.
I do the same and agree.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on February 11, 2009, 08:28:49 PM
Dumbass.  Power customization alone could have poached a significant portion of players from CoX.  Matt Miller probably had a big grin on his face when he read that.

No doubt.  That's something that's so simple to implement and goes such a long way towards player happiness I've got to think it's moronic not to allow it.

I don't know if it is 'simple' to implement, but if DCUO had custom power colours it would remove one of ChampO's key selling points.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on February 11, 2009, 08:33:03 PM
I think this shows, more than anything I've seen so far, how consolization is affecting DCUO development.  The justification they used for this in that quote was "we don't want you to read logs to figure out what you were hit with."  Translation:  12 year olds with PS3s barely have the ability to read the logs, and even if they are literate it would bore them to do so.  I am a major fanboi of this game, but if anything sinks it, it will be designing the entire game around 12 year olds with PS3s.

* I say this because every PS3 board I've seen where they discuss the game is 90% composed of two kinds of comments:

(1)  "I cant be Batman!  OMG SUCK I NO BUY!!"

(2) "Montly fee?  THATS LAME I DONT NEED THAT FOR MY OTHER GAMES, YOU SUX I NO BUY!"


Good luck getting money out of that group. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on February 11, 2009, 08:38:42 PM
I remember the same complaint as 2 about MMOs on PCs though. People got over it. I'm more likely to bet on consoles than PCs for the next wave of MMOs because they aren't so crowded with competing MMOs. Especially F2P ones.

The "can't be Batman" is an issue every MMO with customisation will have to face though, because someone will always find a way of impinging on copyright.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on February 11, 2009, 08:43:59 PM
I just don't buy that MMOs on consoles will work (unless consoles start coming with keyboards, in which case the difference is mostly semantic).

I KNOW they won't work with monthly fees, because console-types simply aren't conditioned to pay them (see my post above for the typical reaction).

And I'm 99% sure they won't work with F2P and microtransactions.  Everyone is getting on this train but its destined to end in complete disaster.  Is everyone really going to buy 15 sparkly doo-dads a month at a dollar each to trick out their heroes?  Newsflash to MMO developers:  we aren't 15 year old Korean girls who will buy a dancing unicorn GIF every two weeks to make our Korean Myspace page more noticeable for the hunky mysterious boy in homeroom.  Designing your games on the assumption that we are is pure undiulated fail.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on February 11, 2009, 08:46:10 PM
Quote
I KNOW they won't work with monthly fees, because console-types simply aren't conditioned to pay them (see my post above for the typical reaction).

Final Fantasy XI and Phantasy Star do a pretty good job of saying otherwise.

Microtransactions won't work?

Do you even have any idea where Microsoft and Sony make their killing? It's highway robbery and people are lined up. The Horse armor on XBLA pulled in another cool Mil for Bethsoft.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on February 11, 2009, 08:52:10 PM
That's wonderful for those companies.  Now, can they do that every month in the same game for many years?  In a way that absolutely does not give any non-cosmetic advantage to those who buy versus those who don't?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Lantyssa on February 11, 2009, 09:32:18 PM
That's wonderful for those companies.  Now, can they do that every month in the same game for many years?  In a way that absolutely does not give any non-cosmetic advantage to those who buy versus those who don't?
Aeria Games, Nexion, Nodiatis, et. al. say there is a huge microtrans market amongst 12-year olds that will pull in far more than a $15 a month sub.  The kids have no control and apparently as long as it keeps them out of trouble, mommy and daddy are happy to pay for it.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on February 11, 2009, 09:34:38 PM
Lantyssa, I don't think it's actually worth talking with him about it. He's completely wrong on not only the console front but the RMT front in general. As in, he's just wrong and there's enough information out that that should he choose to actually research it, he can answer these questions himself.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: HaemishM on February 12, 2009, 08:30:10 AM
What schild said. Tri, you are completely and utterly wrong when it comes to console MMOG's. Fuck, XBox Live, PSN, the Wii Virtual Console and WiiWare all prove you wrong on the "will not purchase microtransactions" front. Rock Band and Guitar Hero DLC anyone?

And who says that they have to restrict microtrans items to purely cosmetic? While most MMOG players blanch at the thought of selling useful items for money, the writing is on the wall with that. Yes, a Western male-dominated audience is different than the Korean tweener girl audience - that doesn't mean they are immune to purchasing useless shit.

Now I have doubts about DCUO, but they have little to do with monthly fees or DLC transactions. I'm actually starting to belive the game will actually come out now, though I don't believe PS3 and PC players will play together. Consoles are where the next WoW level MMOG success will come from (at least the one that doesn't have Blizzard's name on it), the game just won't look or be anything like WoW.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Big Gulp on February 12, 2009, 08:33:23 AM
Consoles are where the next WoW level MMOG success will come from (at least the one that doesn't have Blizzard's name on it), the game just won't look or be anything like WoW.

Agreed.  Console games need to be primarily action focused.  Something like WoW or EQ won't do the trick on consoles because for the most part we're dealing with a lot of ADD people.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 12, 2009, 08:42:52 AM
I just don't buy that MMOs on consoles will work (unless consoles start coming with keyboards, in which case the difference is mostly semantic).

I KNOW they won't work with monthly fees, because console-types simply aren't conditioned to pay them (see my post above for the typical reaction).

And I'm 99% sure they won't work with F2P and microtransactions.  Everyone is getting on this train but its destined to end in complete disaster.  Is everyone really going to buy 15 sparkly doo-dads a month at a dollar each to trick out their heroes?  Newsflash to MMO developers:  we aren't 15 year old Korean girls who will buy a dancing unicorn GIF every two weeks to make our Korean Myspace page more noticeable for the hunky mysterious boy in homeroom.  Designing your games on the assumption that we are is pure undiulated fail.

Isn't the arcade, and part of the PSN one huge micro transaction?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on February 12, 2009, 09:06:36 AM
Aeria Games, Nexion, Nodiatis, et. al. say there is a huge microtrans market amongst 12-year olds that will pull in far more than a $15 a month sub.  The kids have no control and apparently as long as it keeps them out of trouble, mommy and daddy are happy to pay for it.

The amount of people willing to pay deeply into the game is far south of the total amount of people registered to play the game. However, there are far more than enough of them to justify the cost of development, maintenance/expansion, and all of the infrastructure. The statement I've heard alot is something like "less people are willing to go deep into a game, but those players that do you may a LOT more on per head than you would from a flat subscription fee".

That's wonderful for those companies.  Now, can they do that every month in the same game for many years?  In a way that absolutely does not give any non-cosmetic advantage to those who buy versus those who don't?
As Lantyssa said, this is a model already proven.

The complication with consoles is that Sony, MS and Nintendo are in the way and want their (not insubstantial) cut.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 12, 2009, 09:50:18 AM
"In any MMO with a subscription, you are over charging 50% of your player base, and undercharging the other 50%."


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Velorath on February 13, 2009, 02:31:45 PM
Aeria Games, Nexion, Nodiatis, et. al. say there is a huge microtrans market amongst 12-year olds that will pull in far more than a $15 a month sub.  The kids have no control and apparently as long as it keeps them out of trouble, mommy and daddy are happy to pay for it.

The amount of people willing to pay deeply into the game is far south of the total amount of people registered to play the game. However, there are far more than enough of them to justify the cost of development, maintenance/expansion, and all of the infrastructure. The statement I've heard alot is something like "less people are willing to go deep into a game, but those players that do you may a LOT more on per head than you would from a flat subscription fee".

That's wonderful for those companies.  Now, can they do that every month in the same game for many years?  In a way that absolutely does not give any non-cosmetic advantage to those who buy versus those who don't?
As Lantyssa said, this is a model already proven.

The complication with consoles is that Sony, MS and Nintendo are in the way and want their (not insubstantial) cut.

The unofficial ratio I've heard used in regards to microtransaction MMO's is 1/10/89.  1% buy a ton of stuff, 10% buy a small amount, and 89% never spend money on anything.  These are by no means the actual statistics for all games across the board, but it's more or less how the devs of these games look at things.  The key is that since these games are free and get a large amount of registered users, 1% of the player base becomes a substantial number.  John Davison was talking about this in a podcast this week, and there's some Chinese MMO that was just released in the U.S. a few months back that already has over a million users here now, and something like 50 million worldwide.  That Cartoon Network MMO is apparently also doing pretty well with all the advertising it gets.

As far as Triforcer's comment, you can sell things that are non-cosmetic, but that also isn't buying gear.  One example I've heard about is fast travel from area to area for 25 cents a pop.  It doesn't make a character more powerful, but it's a time saver and those transactions can add up pretty quickly.  There's plenty of opportunities to keep people making small transactions over long periods of time.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on February 13, 2009, 03:50:36 PM
Where a subscription-based game features ubers in uber gear to provide a push to newbs to achieve, mtx games rely on those cosmetics (wait, did someone think the cosmetics were being sold only because the devs didn't want to affect the core gameplay mechanic? No, it's because that's the most immediately visible point of differentiation between all of the otherwise sameness). Of course there's the other accroutrements like faster XP, faster travel, semi-private content, house trophies, etc.

The key is registered users, ongoing advertising and constantly finding ways to upsell mtx within the game world. So a game that merely has WoW's 11.5mil users is actually not doing all that well. That's why some of us have touted over the years the 130mil+ global registered users of Maplestory (circle mid-2008), Audition's 80mil (circa early-2008) and almost $100mil of Habbo (mid-2008). And conversely while 100mil is not really the insane number it would be for a subs-game.

Your sweet spot is that 10% number, because you know the 1-3% are the major investors. So you need ten times that in at least occasional passersby you managed to get an account from at all.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Kageru on February 18, 2009, 07:50:46 PM
Consoles may be the future due to their huge installed base but I'll do my very best to steer clear as long as I can. It looks simplified in terms of powers available, environments and interaction (no chat box, virtually no gui at all other than a huge power bar with 4 active powers). I mean I can see that flying around brightly lit sandboxes throwing objects at mobs and other players while spamming your attack key could be fun for a while but I'd rather buy a single player console game with a script and an ending. Not that I trust SOE to avoid sucking the fun out of the game anyway.

I'd still be happy if they spruced up CoH a little and built an actual end-game onto the thing. Speed up the levelling but actually have some content and progression to keep you occupied after you have your powers. Hopefully Champions online will be like that.



Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: ashrik on February 18, 2009, 08:09:44 PM
You know, if we backed up a few years and replaced all the comments about microtransactions and subscription fees with talk about how gamers will never go for installing stuff on their consoles and dealing with patches... it'd be a suitable timewarp thread. The line is blurring and sooner or later, it'll be entirely nonexistant.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on March 03, 2009, 07:48:04 PM
Jens Anderson really posts a lot at DCUO Source, and he necroed an old thread of mine there to say more about power loadouts-

http://www.dcuosource.com/index.php/topic,263.0.html

Interesting.  It looks like there will be more depth than I thought, as apparently you can now change your tactical set (offense, defense, support) in combat.

Four slots for consumables (out of the eight available to you at any moment) I find interesting.  If DCUO is actually going to make the jump to RMTing consumables that make a difference in PvP (which is what I think four item slots imply), that's a pretty big strategic break from the present AAA MMO wisdom. 

EDIT:  If you use the DevTracker function, you'll also find posts saying that more travel powers are coming.  Gogo Nightcrawler-style teleportation!



Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on March 04, 2009, 07:58:05 AM
You know, if we backed up a few years and replaced all the comments about microtransactions and subscription fees with talk about how gamers will never go for installing stuff on their consoles and dealing with patches... it'd be a suitable timewarp thread. The line is blurring and sooner or later, it'll be entirely nonexistant.

While I agree, the real difference is not consumer acceptance as much as technical capability. Years ago there weren't nearly as many consoles connected to the internet. I don't know what all the numbers are off the top of my head, but I think it's above 75% for PS3 and 80% for X360 (with Wii somewhere around 30-40%?). But it wasn't because people just decided to plug in. More it was because the console manufacturers made the online experiences so painless as to be transparent.

An MMO on X360 would in no way suffer from the install/patch process because the former is merely putting the disc in and the latter can happen automagically. PS3 would be the same. Wii would probably be more a pita, but we're not talking WoW for Wii either (though that would be the literal End of All Things).

This is quite unlock the fifth and sixth generation consoles that may or not have been connected at all and which didn't offer nearly as compelling reason to bother doing so.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Margalis on March 05, 2009, 07:19:55 PM
I love how Triforcer is so excited about this ultra-generic game. We can all watch his little heart be crushed in real time.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on March 05, 2009, 07:26:20 PM
Wow, that came out of nowhere.  But I had forgotten that being cynical is ultra-trendy.  Please bring up my potential DCUO sorrow the next time you go to that one club who only plays bands that haven't sold out to the fascist crypto-patriarchic capitalist neocon  machine with your fellow Nader supporters. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Margalis on March 05, 2009, 07:43:25 PM
Nader? Wha?

Chill dude, I was kidding around. You have to admit that you are to this game as Falconeer was to Vanguard. I'm just curious as to why you've chosen this game to get so excited about. I don't remember you being the exuberant sort.

Also predicting that a new MMO will probably under-deliver is less cynicism than sober realisim.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on March 05, 2009, 07:51:13 PM
Ah, sorry for the unnecessary backlash.  I read that as meaner than you meant it.

Still, I don't know why I am excited this time.  This fires my imagine just as much as SWG did pre-beta.  Something about how they are designing it, the comments they make on the game makes me think that this could really be a winner.  And I love the D.C. universe much more than any fictional MMO universe IP to date.

It will probably be console-y and lame, but we all have our hopeless and doomed crushes  :oh_i_see:  And given that SWTOR is apparently not an MMO at all, this is the only thing that looks even remotely like its trying to do something different. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Lantyssa on March 05, 2009, 09:07:41 PM
Chill dude, I was kidding around. You have to admit that you are to this game as Falconeer was to Vanguard. I'm just curious as to why you've chosen this game to get so excited about. I don't remember you being the exuberant sort.
You should have seen him, a lot of us to be fair, early in SWG's development. :heartbreak:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Margalis on March 05, 2009, 09:22:34 PM
Once bitten twice shy?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Nevermore on March 06, 2009, 06:22:28 AM
And I love the D.C. universe much more than any fictional MMO universe IP to date.

Not to ascribe motivations on others, but that's probably why you're most excited by this.  To me at least, a lot of the mechanics and design decisions for this game look highly questionable.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on March 06, 2009, 08:59:19 AM
I like the DC universe but not in the comic-geek sorta way. Just because it's cool and includes a few characters many of us would be if we ended up filthy rich or overpowered at 18  :grin:

I'm excited for DCUO mostly because it's using what-I-consider-to-be console controller inspiration to deliver a console and PC game. I'm tired of target autoattack some-button mashing. And during those times when I'm not tired of it, I don't need anything other than WoW.

It's initially why I liked TR so much. Being different at all is enough of a draw. But of course it has to work too. So I'm excited for DCUO because they're doing the different-enough, but only cautiously optimisitc that they'll make it work well.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Lantyssa on March 06, 2009, 09:13:31 AM
And I love the D.C. universe much more than any fictional MMO universe IP to date.
Not to ascribe motivations on others, but that's probably why you're most excited by this.  To me at least, a lot of the mechanics and design decisions for this game look highly questionable.
I share this opinion.  Since I'm not particularly interested in the DC universe, the design is important to me.  It hasn't grabbed me on that level.

I like the DC universe but not in the comic-geek sorta way. Just because it's cool and includes a few characters many of us would be if we ended up filthy rich or overpowered at 18  :grin:
They have heroes based around a bunch of slacker computer gamers?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on March 06, 2009, 01:51:44 PM
I dated myself there. I wasn't a slacker computer gamer until my late 20s  :grin:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Lantyssa on March 06, 2009, 03:30:28 PM
If you had the money you would have started earlier than your late 20's because you could have afforded ENIAC. ;D


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on March 06, 2009, 05:31:53 PM
lol! Not THAT old. Maybe Space Wars with those MIT guys...

There's a lot of "ifs" here that'd need to line up for me to go from the sloth I have been to Batman... but I'm convinced in some parallel universe I did that for a bit before getting KS'd by some serious mob types. Or maybe it's the sauce and the Burn Notice season finale, whose to say?  :grin:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on March 07, 2009, 08:47:18 PM
And I love the D.C. universe much more than any fictional MMO universe IP to date.

Not to ascribe motivations on others, but that's probably why you're most excited by this.  To me at least, a lot of the mechanics and design decisions for this game look highly questionable.

This. I've been around too many MMOs to get into the "isn't it awesome I can team up with Batman and wow open world PvP sounds interesting and it'll all be awesome" phase just yet. Until some hard details come out about exactly how the mechanics are going to work - probably late open beta is the only time such info is trustworthy - everything is up for change.

I also expect to see some of ChampO's design decisions change how DCUO is going to operate, simply because it'll serve as another test case for a superhero MMO.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on March 08, 2009, 05:49:31 AM
I suspect it'll be the other way around. I don't know how well DCUO will turn out but I do think ChampO is much closer to business as usual. Which in this genre means designing for the prior generation rather than thinking forward to a new one. And it's based on the premise that CoX was "fine", going solely by how much things are not changing, at least on paper. Even setting aside the rest of the genre, I'm curious how this title is going to be anything but CoX 2.0 in the same ways WAR was a sequel to DAoC.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on March 08, 2009, 08:34:20 AM
On that: remind me to look at that post again once ChampO's NDA drops. I have some thoughts on the matter that can wait until June.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Lantyssa on March 08, 2009, 09:00:14 AM
I suspect it'll be the other way around. I don't know how well DCUO will turn out but I do think ChampO is much closer to business as usual. Which in this genre means designing for the prior generation rather than thinking forward to a new one. And it's based on the premise that CoX was "fine", going solely by how much things are not changing, at least on paper. Even setting aside the rest of the genre, I'm curious how this title is going to be anything but CoX 2.0 in the same ways WAR was a sequel to DAoC.
Based on my limited knowledge of either, ChampO's power selection seems like the biggest change from what we always get.  If it work well, however, it will give future games a look at how to break away from static classes.

Nothing I've heard about either game otherwise makes me think they'll be ground breaking, so I'm not sure why you think DCUO will be so much better and revolutionary.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Numtini on March 08, 2009, 09:39:04 AM
I really wonder if the market is large enough to support three superhero games.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: DayDream on March 08, 2009, 11:58:42 AM
I think it'll be interesting to see how the "create your own missions" aspect of CoX will play out.  That seems like the largest difference in design when these go live.  Will it be enough to keep CoX alive?  Or maybe CoX will be just fine, and the new kids will have too many launch issues.

I agree with you lantyssa, ChampO's power selection does intrigue me.  I'm really skeptical they'll pull it off with good balance though.  If they don't blow it with plain number imbalance I expect them to slip it in soft factors like avatar control or attack ranges.  And I forget whether PvP is slated to be included at launch.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: DLRiley on March 08, 2009, 12:24:29 PM
I really wonder if the market is large enough to support three superhero games.

There is probably enough room for 5 superhero games.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on March 08, 2009, 12:38:13 PM
For me the question is:

Is there room for multiple generic-IP MMOs when the comic book IP worlds arrive (the first being DC and the next eventually being Marvel).


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on March 08, 2009, 05:15:54 PM
Pretty sure it's been announced that PvP is in ChampO for launch - Emmert has said he's aware of what happens when you launch without it.

As for IPs: DCUO is going to get a hell of a boost from people wanting to play in a version of the DC universe. On top of that, SOE and Warner Bros are going to get behind marketing this title like its a cure for cancer. Now, whether it keeps those players depends on the quality of the game play and some of the design decisions (the 'optional' open world PvP that opens up depending on the missions you do is one of them).


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: eldaec on March 09, 2009, 06:33:00 AM
I really wonder if the market is large enough to support three superhero games.

Sorry, how many games is it currently supporting that have elves?

This post demonstrates beyond doubt that there really is such a thing as a stupid question.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Sunbury on March 09, 2009, 06:56:12 AM
But are these really "superhero" games, but just normal 'ol fantasy MMORPG's with superhero skins?

Is it a superhero game where there are 3000+ superhero's running around the same city?

What are they trying to model?

Also what superhero chooses their powerset?  (Batman?)  Isn't it mostly some accident?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on March 09, 2009, 07:43:14 AM
But are these really "superhero" games, but just normal 'ol fantasy MMORPG's with superhero skins?

Is it a superhero game where there are 3000+ superhero's running around the same city?

What are they trying to model?

Also what superhero chooses their powerset?  (Batman?)  Isn't it mostly some accident?

I will start hitting people if we have a fiction vs. function argument here too - I've seen too many "but Superman can do it, so we should be able to do it in-game" discussions in my time to cover the same ground again. It will require an expensive plane ticket and a very long flight, but I will show up and get Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back on people.  :angryfist:

The key difference in comics is that the writers can generally pass the criminals around so that everyone gets a shot and the 'accidental' powers nicely fit with a character theme. A lot of comic book tropes are writer's vanities and then driven into the ground over 40 years of monthly issues.

What makes the superhero genre? Funny costumes and property destruction. If the title has lots of costume options and the ability to break lots of things, then yes, it's a superhero title.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: HaemishM on March 09, 2009, 12:51:51 PM
I really wonder if the market is large enough to support three superhero games.

The market is big enough to support however superhero games as can be built... provided those games can actually differentiate between themselves. From what I've seen so far, that won't happen with the 3 superhero MMOG's out. DCUO, ChampO and COH all appear way too similar to each other.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Draegan on March 09, 2009, 12:59:26 PM
ChampO and COH are the exact same game, mechanically.  DCUO is played like an arcade game so at least it plays different.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Trippy on March 09, 2009, 01:06:21 PM
ChampO and COH are the exact same game, mechanically.
No, they aren't.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on March 09, 2009, 05:36:05 PM
ChampO and COH are the exact same game, mechanically.
No, they aren't.

This.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Velorath on March 09, 2009, 08:41:29 PM
I really wonder if the market is large enough to support three superhero games.

Let's wait and see if ChampO and DCUO even end up being good games before we start worrying whether or not the market can support them all.  If they both end up being complete ass, I don't really give a shit whether the market is big enoungh to support them or not.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Draegan on March 10, 2009, 06:32:37 AM
ChampO and COH are the exact same game, mechanically.
No, they aren't.


When I got to play ChampO it played almost exactly like CoH but more DIKU.  There was just different bars to drain for abilities I believe.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: eldaec on March 10, 2009, 07:42:34 AM
ChampO and COH are the exact same game, mechanically.
No, they aren't.

This.

That.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Trippy on March 10, 2009, 10:25:08 AM
ChampO and COH are the exact same game, mechanically.
No, they aren't.
When I got to play ChampO it played almost exactly like CoH but more DIKU.  There was just different bars to drain for abilities I believe.
You didn't play CoH much then. CO has no refresh timers and instead your spammable (as in button mashable) basic attacks charge up your "special attack" meter. Gives combat a totally different feel than CoH.



Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: sam, an eggplant on March 10, 2009, 11:08:44 AM
Any chance of a private forum for the champions online beta here?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Draegan on March 10, 2009, 11:43:01 AM

You didn't play CoH much then. CO has no refresh timers and instead your spammable (as in button mashable) basic attacks charge up your "special attack" meter. Gives combat a totally different feel than CoH.



I guess I really don't see it as much a difference then.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Trippy on March 10, 2009, 04:20:35 PM
You didn't play CoH much then. CO has no refresh timers and instead your spammable (as in button mashable) basic attacks charge up your "special attack" meter. Gives combat a totally different feel than CoH.
I guess I really don't see it as much a difference then.
Which doesn't bode well for CO if people are having trouble distinguishing between the two combat systems.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on March 10, 2009, 04:23:11 PM
Any chance of a private forum for the champions online beta here?
Not even a little.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on March 10, 2009, 05:26:51 PM
Any chance of a private forum for the champions online beta here?
Not even a little.

I count about 6 f13'ers in the ChampO beta. Might not be enough to sustain a private board, regardless on how much I'd like to discuss the title outside of official channels. (Which, for those Cryptic people who might be looking, I haven't been.)


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on March 10, 2009, 05:29:31 PM
Oh, I suppose I should have been more clear.

It doesn't really deserve one and I'm not going to round up Cryptic people to make it worthwhile.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on March 10, 2009, 05:30:23 PM

If you watch videos of both games side-by-side, they have a different mechanic toolset in place. One is fixed powers that use endurance, the other is a much wider range of run-and-gun powers (little rooting in combat) that can be used to build endurance that you can then use on more powerful attacks.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: eldaec on March 11, 2009, 09:04:40 AM

You didn't play CoH much then. CO has no refresh timers and instead your spammable (as in button mashable) basic attacks charge up your "special attack" meter. Gives combat a totally different feel than CoH.



I guess I really don't see it as much a difference then.

Which is fine, so long as you are one of those people who see all diku-muds as EQ in a new suit.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on March 11, 2009, 11:06:18 AM

You didn't play CoH much then. CO has no refresh timers and instead your spammable (as in button mashable) basic attacks charge up your "special attack" meter. Gives combat a totally different feel than CoH.



I guess I really don't see it as much a difference then.

Which is fine, so long as you are one of those people who see all diku-muds as EQ in a new suit.

This.  I'm still waiting for the people who insist everything is like COH to say how they would make a superhero MMO that isn't like COH.  It obviously couldn't involve superpowers or costumes since COH had them.  I'm thinking you would login and see see presidential heads photoshopped onto turkeys debating zinc mining policy while Peyton Manning stood in the background crushing saltine crackers and pouring the crumbs onto a radish.  That is probably the only way to be sure the game isn't exactly like COH. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Draegan on March 11, 2009, 01:05:18 PM
You guys should relax.  Better yet, fanboy it up some more for some entertainment.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: sam, an eggplant on March 11, 2009, 01:26:22 PM
Beta knocks the fanboism right out of most people. Most people.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: DayDream on March 11, 2009, 04:23:49 PM
I'd say a super hero game would be different from CoX if it wasn't "kill monsters and quests to get bellchimes so i can add another button on my ability bar." It certainly might still have some derivative features, like costume creator and what have you, but I think NOT having some CoX derived features would be a serious mistake in a super hero game.

Don't know where ChampO fits in for sure, but I'm guessing it's going to be fairly DIKU.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on March 11, 2009, 06:00:09 PM
I'm still waiting for the people who insist everything is like COH to say how they would make a superhero MMO that isn't like COH. 

The Matrix Online.  :grin: :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on March 24, 2009, 10:44:25 PM
DCUO (and The Agency) delayed until 2010.  (http://www.gametrailers.com/viewnews.php?id=577)


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: eldaec on March 25, 2009, 09:14:06 AM
DCUO (and The Agency) delayed until 2010.  (http://www.gametrailers.com/viewnews.php?id=577)

I don't think it counts as a delay yet, as no one takes the first date announced seriously anyway.

MMOG date changes should only count as 'delays' once you get past about 2 years later than the initially announced date.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on March 25, 2009, 09:49:46 AM
Calendar year 2010 or fiscal year? And when does SOE's fiscal year 2010 begin? I could look it up but I don't have time right now.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on March 26, 2009, 03:39:15 AM
Calendar year 2010 or fiscal year? And when does SOE's fiscal year 2010 begin? I could look it up but I don't have time right now.
Just recently ended, they're part of SCEA now.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on March 26, 2009, 10:27:34 AM
Ok. So SCEA is in Fiscal Year 2010 as of April 1?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on March 26, 2009, 10:46:53 AM
Ok. So SCEA is in Fiscal Year 2010 as of April 1?

Yes, March 31st is the end of their fiscal year, I should've been more clear, sorry.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on March 26, 2009, 07:06:35 PM
Hmm, if its already getting pushed back to 2010, I believe we will see holidays 2010 or early 2011.  It seems more complete than that now, but something will come up. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on March 26, 2009, 11:35:31 PM
Hmm, if its already getting pushed back to 2010, I believe we will see holidays 2010 or early 2011.  It seems more complete than that now, but something will come up. 

"It seems more complete that that" exactly how? The single area of Metropolis they've polished for public showings? With pre-generated characters because player generated characters aren't yet possible?

Sorry, but I'm really waiting until all info about DCUO (and ChampO for that matter) is released to really judge how well it is going to work. Just looking at demos is never going to cut it.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on March 27, 2009, 03:50:51 AM
Quote
With pre-generated characters because player generated characters aren't yet possible?

Hmmm, what?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: AutomaticZen on March 27, 2009, 06:23:59 AM
Quote
With pre-generated characters because player generated characters aren't yet possible?

Hmmm, what?
I believe UnSub is referring to the fact that like ChampO's early demos, they're running the same couple of characters over and over.  Pre-made characters who are built to use the powers they have feature complete for demo purposes.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on March 27, 2009, 06:26:26 AM
Quote
With pre-generated characters because player generated characters aren't yet possible?

Hmmm, what?
I believe UnSub is referring to the fact that like ChampO's early demos, they're running the same couple of characters over and over.  Pre-made characters who are built to use the powers they have feature complete for demo purposes.
I can assure you, having seen and done it myself, that player generated characters were possible AT THE VERY LEAST, before last October.

They use pre-generated ones publically to keep things simple and fast.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on March 27, 2009, 07:07:34 AM
Quote
With pre-generated characters because player generated characters aren't yet possible?

Hmmm, what?
I believe UnSub is referring to the fact that like ChampO's early demos, they're running the same couple of characters over and over.  Pre-made characters who are built to use the powers they have feature complete for demo purposes.
I can assure you, having seen and done it myself, that player generated characters were possible AT THE VERY LEAST, before last October.

They use pre-generated ones publically to keep things simple and fast.

They might be possible, but they really haven't been showing that feature at all. Even to journalists who get more time on it in private back rooms. If it did work, they may have changed it now to fit with other design changes / system additions.

Everything I've seen has said, "Our char gen will be awesome, but it's not done yet".


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on March 27, 2009, 08:00:55 AM
Quote
They might be possible, but they really haven't been showing that feature at all.

Not might be, it is. I have sat at SOE and done it.


Quote
Even to journalists who get more time on it in private back rooms.

Gaming doesn't have journalists.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Draegan on March 27, 2009, 08:02:46 AM
I'm pretty sure I saw character creation at NYCC.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on March 27, 2009, 10:15:36 AM
You did. Full character creation, ability choosing, all that has been in for awhile. The demonstrators are just using characters they already know how to play well enough to show the hey-check-out-how-I-kick-ass functions.

Yes, March 31st is the end of their fiscal year, I should've been more clear, sorry.
Ok cool. And yea, only wanted to know because them saying "2010" could be Fiscal 2010 which means it could actually be this summer. I've never actually used fiscal year in normal conversation but am surrounded by people who do it so often they forget the average person wants to know when something is available, not when it'll appear on financial statements for tax purposes  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Velorath on March 27, 2009, 02:43:19 PM
Ok. So SCEA is in Fiscal Year 2010 as of April 1?

Yes, March 31st is the end of their fiscal year, I should've been more clear, sorry.

March 31st is the end of their fiscal year, but they'll be moving into FY 2009, not 2010.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Falwell on June 04, 2009, 03:04:09 PM
It looks like the stage demo for DCUO on Gamespot got nixed but TTH has one, and it's from the villain's perspective..

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/69230

Holy fuck do they need to work on the animations.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on June 05, 2009, 08:45:28 PM
Bland generic promo trailer. (http://au.ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/755358/dc-comics-mmo/videos/dc_universe_online_trl_e32009trailer_60409.html;jsessionid=4bqofh39032rm)

Flying within an instanced mission (http://au.ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/755358/dc-comics-mmo/videos/dconline_thepoweroflightnin.html) - pretty ordinary animations. Features Batman.

Throwing things (http://au.ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/755358/dc-comics-mmo/videos/dconline_barreltossing.new.html) - watch metal bounce like rubber.

Boss fight (http://au.ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/755358/dc-comics-mmo/videos/dconline_thealienturd.new.html) - really looks like you mash the buttons until the boss falls over. Features Superman, who won't shut up.

I know it is the DC IP that brings most of this title its power, but it seems you can't do a mission without tripping over a major DC character.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Nebu on June 05, 2009, 09:48:24 PM
I think that the industry is getting the idea... that there are people tiring of WoW that may be looking for something new.  The rude awakening comes when these ex-WoW players give your game a shot only to discover that they miss the streamlined and well-crafted experience they got from WoW.  Blizzard has raised the bar and anyone offering a new title should be aware that players will no longer settle for slapped-together-wanna-bes, even if they are dressed in a new shiny.


Forgive me for repeating what others have said for some time now. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Malakili on June 07, 2009, 09:06:06 PM
It seems that the promo guy seems to use "action oriented combat" to describe what I would like to call "button mashing combat"


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Grimwell on June 08, 2009, 12:42:24 PM
I'll base what I say only upon that which was available for the E3 audience - none of this is from the inside:

If you are mashing buttons, you are doing it wrong. It may look like that, but it does not invoke my button mashing madness (mainly brought on by DOA) when I'm playing.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Redgiant on June 08, 2009, 04:13:33 PM
Why does the presenter harp on DC celebrity characters showing up in-game all the time? Yeah, we know that. My guess is that is mainly a marketing nugget against CoX, and for the DC nosepickers who debate the color of Batman's underwear. But they won't survive on subs from just those types.

No amount of "ZOMG it's Superman... again" can save crappy gameplay. I don't care how many famous characters grace my screen. It all comes down to how it plays.

I am not saying this doesn't look promising. I like what I see. It just scares me when someone harps on something so much; it is often a sign of "Hey look over here" instead of at the fist coming at you.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Kageru on June 08, 2009, 07:33:41 PM

Looks very much like it would be a bit of fun that fades quickly due to repetition and shallow gameplay. I'm not sure this will worry the CoX guys as much as the champions online developers who are very much aiming at the same space with an infinitely weaker IP.



Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on July 20, 2009, 06:35:06 AM
New DCUO competition:     

Who's your DCUO BFF? Tell us and WIN!!! (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=170495422&blogId=500665186)

Quote
Who is your DC UniverseTM Online Best Friend or Best Foe? Send us a 30-second video telling us and you could win some great DCUO items.  The two winning entries will receive a Lex Luthor in Power Armor poster signed by Jim Lee and the DCUO Development team.

If you make people do something this lame, you should at least be handing out closed beta slots.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: DLRiley on July 20, 2009, 06:39:40 AM
I think that the industry is getting the idea... that there are people tiring of WoW that may be looking for something new.  The rude awakening comes when these ex-WoW players give your game a shot only to discover that they miss the streamlined and well-crafted experience they got from WoW.  Blizzard has raised the bar and anyone offering a new title should be aware that players will no longer settle for slapped-together-wanna-bes, even if they are dressed in a new shiny.


Forgive me for repeating what others have said for some time now. 

Aion says hi  :drill:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Montague on July 22, 2009, 10:30:23 PM
New DCUO competition:     

Who's your DCUO BFF? Tell us and WIN!!! (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=170495422&blogId=500665186)

Quote
Who is your DC UniverseTM Online Best Friend or Best Foe? Send us a 30-second video telling us and you could win some great DCUO items.  The two winning entries will receive a Lex Luthor in Power Armor poster signed by Jim Lee and the DCUO Development team.

If you make people do something this lame, you should at least be handing out closed beta slots.

DCUO had a demo running at Comicon. The wife and I watched some dude play for a little bit, nothing that hasn't already been shown to my knowledge. The art was very bright and four colorish, and the animations needed some work. The one interesting thing was the demo area was FFA PVP, and I probably freaked out the marketing chick when my jaw was on the floor, but alas it was a special area only made for the demo.

We got VIP passes for a party going on at one of the hotels Saturday night which is basically a meet and greet with the devs (and Jim Lee, which the marketing chick mentioned like 12 times), so if anyone has any specific questions I'll see what I can wring out of them. Or if you have anything you want to say to Jim Lee, who's also gonna be there. Have I mentioned Jim Lee is gonna be there???   


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on July 22, 2009, 11:30:19 PM
Jim Lee is apparently a reason we should all be excited about DCUO.  :oh_i_see: I'd more more excited if he hadn't been handing the work onto his studio to do, or was actually doing the modelling and animation work.

Any questions outside of "when's beta?" don't mean anything at this point.



Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on July 23, 2009, 09:17:28 PM
Ask him why Spiderman 3 was so bad and whether he thinks it has damaged his creation.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: DLRiley on July 23, 2009, 09:20:30 PM
Spiderman 3 never existed. And if it did, it was actually based off the ultimate universe.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on July 26, 2009, 03:10:50 AM
Some of the stuff coming about about DCUO from Comic-Con (and I'm going to rip the key points straight off DCUOSource.com (http://www.dcuosource.com/)):

Quote
    *  Can you make a group like the Krypton Force or Green Lantern Corps? Cao says yes -- making legions and leagues will be a big deal.
    * A fan said that the problem with City of Heroes is the fact that you're limited once you choose your power set (choose to be super-strong, you have to pick super-strong powers), how does that work here? Tactics will change whether you're with a group or on your own. SOE's making sure that you can get in and play when you want to.
    * Secret identity stories confirmed.
    * Cao says there hasn't been a decision on how many characters each account can have, but everyone will be able to play with everyone. There are no server restrictions to worry about.
    * There will be more than just action. You'll need to scope areas and sneak about. (Stealth gameplay confirmed?)
    *  You can change and alter the appearance as it goes along, but if you want to equip the super powerful late-game armor and keep the look you had on day one, you can. You will still get the stats bonuses from the equipment.
    * The focus for the game's launch are events occurring on Earth. They seem to be leaving the option open for leaving Earth in future expansions.
    * You can create sidekicks in the game.
    * Release date: spring 20something. "There will be a 2" at the beginning. (Spring 2010?)

Marv Wolfman (and Geoff Johns) creates the stories, SOE creates the missions: (http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/07/dc-universe-online/)

Quote
Wolfman’s job is to come up with major storylines — cases for heroes to solve, crimes for villains to commit. Under his direction, Sony developers in Austin are teasing those out into a seemingly endless array of mini-narratives in which players are sent out on missions: short bursts of action, often only a minute or two long, with even briefer bits of dialogue to advance the story.

Video showing combat (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/sdcc-09-dc-universe/53249) and the 'rally or flee' system - on a map you can rally after death three times, each time reviving in the spot you died with less than a full HP bar. After the third, you have to flee - you get revived a short distance away with full HP.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on July 26, 2009, 06:48:41 AM
"There will be a 2 at the beginning"

So I guess no DeLorean's nor 992 year development time frame?

The two things that stick out for me are sidekicks and a shard-less game. Wish I had time for ComicCon this year.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Lantyssa on July 26, 2009, 08:48:10 AM
I also noted the "late-game armor".  Possibly loot?  At least you can keep your appearance.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Margalis on July 26, 2009, 05:34:00 PM
Quote
Ask him why Spiderman 3 was so bad and whether he thinks it has damaged his creation.

Jim Lee != Stan Lee


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Ghambit on July 26, 2009, 05:41:48 PM
If you see Jim Lee ask him what his brother's (Jae) been up to.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on July 26, 2009, 11:04:47 PM
And how his uncle Bruce is going. He'll love that.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Montague on July 27, 2009, 11:13:12 AM
Finally got home. Unsub beat me to most of the stuff that was talked about but here's what I got at the VIP event (apologies if some of this is redundant/already known):

Missions will be dynamically generated. Jens said that there will be no gangs or villains on street corners - the city will appear normal but your presence will generate content. If I understand this right, there will be no "zones" in the normal sense, and that you can pretty much go anywhere at the start of the game.

Wes Yanagi said that levelling will be very fast, and the intent is to get players into the endgame as quickly as possible. A different answer about sidekicking was given at the party, that there would be no sidekicking option per se but that the power curve between levels is much less pronounced than in other games, so that a lower level character grouped with a high level character could still contribute. Also PVP-wise that a group of lower level characters can easily take down a max level character.

There willl be PVP and PVE servers, and on the PVE servers there will be areas and missions that will flag you for PVP.

There will be loot with costume pieces that give stat bonuses. You can change your look while keeping your stat bonuses - no mismatched uniforms due to gear.

Jens said that places like Metropolis and Gotham, etc will keep as close to the lore as possible. Plenty of LOTRO-esque easter eggs for the explorers.

That's about all I remember. The party itself was pretty badass, a catered afffair with a DJ. Everyone got a Catwoman poster signed by the devs, Marv Wolfman and Jim Lee.



Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Trippy on July 27, 2009, 11:19:43 AM
Wes Yanagi said that levelling will be very fast, and the intent is to get players into the endgame as quickly as possible.
So what is the endgame?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Montague on July 27, 2009, 12:01:33 PM
Wes Yanagi said that levelling will be very fast, and the intent is to get players into the endgame as quickly as possible.
So what is the endgame?


I asked if the game would require 20 or so of my closest friends to play at the end, the answer was: "No, but it is a social game". Take that as you will.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Murgos on July 27, 2009, 12:45:18 PM
Wes Yanagi said that levelling will be very fast, and the intent is to get players into the endgame as quickly as possible.
So what is the endgame?


Ideally it's when the players stay subscribed to the game but no longer log in to use valuable computing resources.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: HaemishM on July 27, 2009, 02:38:21 PM
and a shard-less game

Sounded to me like it will share more structural similarities with Guild Wars than World of Warcraft.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: eldaec on July 29, 2009, 12:47:42 PM
They should have used Christopher Lee, that would have been much more awesome, and half the internet would still think they were talking about the Spiderman guy.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Draegan on July 29, 2009, 12:53:21 PM
Quote
Wes Yanagi: We’re not revealing any details on player customization yet. The player characters we have shown at E3 and other trade shows are fairly representative of the level of customization you’ll be able to achieve, however. One interesting note is how we are handling itemization – when you get that snazzy new headpiece, for example, you will have the ability to mesh it with your existing costume so everything matches. Of course if you like the original look of your character you can toggle the appearance of new items off to preserve that as well.

I got a few questions answered a while ago.  Interesting thing about gear.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on July 30, 2009, 10:42:16 PM
A shardless game?  How is that even possible unless you are designing Gotham to be the size of a small country?  And if you do that, and less people play, isn't that a problem too?  

Or do they mean they are using that dimensional zone bullshit from AoC?  Hai guyz, everyone is standing on X but it takes 20 minutes to get us all in the same VERSION of X!

EDIT:  wanted to say I am still more excited about this game than SWTOR or STO.  At least DCUO is trying to be an MMO, not a single-player game where you and your ten AI-generated group members pew pew away in your own private instance. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Lantyssa on July 30, 2009, 11:18:29 PM
Guild Wars has one server, potentially many instances.  Usually only a few because people are so spread out, but during holiday events there can be hundreds of districts.

The question is how many per.  Guild Wars can hold quite a few people in one.  AoC not so much, which still has servers on top of it.  CoX is kind of a middle ground between the two.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on July 30, 2009, 11:21:01 PM
Meh.  I don't like the district model, particularly for PvP.  Unless there is a "scent dimensional trail" ability to follow people, that would be  :drill:

I am glad we are going to see PvP servers though.  I don't like STO's PvP model, which sounds like it will be a tiny sandbox of neutral zone PvP amidst a giant PvE game.  

Also, teleporting foes into one-shotting guards is of course of a must. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on August 26, 2009, 09:49:46 PM
schild, you should have started a DCUO fansite.

http://www.dcuosource.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47:deathstryker&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=56


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on August 26, 2009, 09:51:17 PM
I don't understand.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on August 26, 2009, 09:53:29 PM
He was just some guy with a website, and now he has a job IN THE GAMING INDUSTRY.  He's the next Lum! 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on August 26, 2009, 11:52:26 PM
You don't follow f13 very closely.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on August 26, 2009, 11:54:58 PM
Wait, what?  Off to the front page once I googe its URL. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: schild on August 26, 2009, 11:56:39 PM
I should totally try to get a job in the gaming industry, you're right.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: rattran on August 26, 2009, 11:58:16 PM
I should totally try to get a job in the gaming industry, you're right.

You filthy sellout!


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Yegolev on August 27, 2009, 07:39:09 AM
Once you do, schild, be sure to pad your payroll with friends and relatives.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Signe on August 27, 2009, 08:30:45 AM
I should totally try to get a job in the gaming industry, you're right.

Wait.  Didn't you just get a job in the gaming industry?   :ye_gods:  How many do you need?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: tmp on August 27, 2009, 08:52:25 AM
Imagine if having a fan site about a celebrity could land you a job as their personal fluffer.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on August 27, 2009, 08:54:32 AM
Where does he work?  His Linkedin page doesn't have anything new.  I'm honestly confused here.  Is he a WoW developer? 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Lantyssa on August 27, 2009, 09:26:29 AM
I'll give you a hint.  It's somewhere under the MMO Discussion forum, and it's not in Eve.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Sky on August 27, 2009, 02:52:05 PM
And he lives in Austin.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on September 06, 2009, 08:37:33 PM
No sub fees for DCUO, cross compatible servers between the PC and PS3. (http://www.onelastcontinue.com/10953/gamescom-2009-dc-universe-online-impressions/) Or so it is claimed.

Quote
In a surprising move, Wes confirmed that not only will there be no subscription fee for DC Universe Online, but that the game will feature completely platform-open servers; this means the servers will be cross-compatible between the PS3 and PC versions, no matter where you play.  While this is all well and good, Yanagi neglected to elaborate on the means through which the game will be making its money.  Whether it ends up with a Free Realms-esque microtransaction service or a more Guild Wars-inspired system of free play supported by numerous paid expansions, we’ll do our best to keep you updated as time goes by.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Evildrider on September 06, 2009, 09:00:09 PM
Imagine if having a fan site about a celebrity could land you a job as their personal fluffer.

Time to start my Scarlett Johansson website.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Kageru on September 06, 2009, 11:32:03 PM

Probably a very reasonable decision when you want to pull in a massive number of console gamers who are probably more comfortable with micro-transactions. I can easily imagine them being lobby / mission based as well to keep the action up, grouping informal and the cost of servers down.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Venkman on September 07, 2009, 07:04:46 AM
No sub fees for DCUO, cross compatible servers between the PC and PS3. (http://www.onelastcontinue.com/10953/gamescom-2009-dc-universe-online-impressions/) Or so it is claimed.

Quote
In a surprising move, Wes confirmed that not only will there be no subscription fee for DC Universe Online, but that the game will feature completely platform-open servers; this means the servers will be cross-compatible between the PS3 and PC versions, no matter where you play.  While this is all well and good, Yanagi neglected to elaborate on the means through which the game will be making its money.  Whether it ends up with a Free Realms-esque microtransaction service or a more Guild Wars-inspired system of free play supported by numerous paid expansions, we’ll do our best to keep you updated as time goes by.

This kind of cross-platform server is actually something worth exploring first.

Wondering about subs though. Maybe FR is paying for itself with MTX? DCUO seems like the kind of high-cost investment one doesn't risk with a model that so far hasn't work in the west outside of the much lighter Flash based experiences.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: DLRiley on September 07, 2009, 08:32:51 AM
I think Guild Wars only real problem wasn't the budget concerns for their expansion based system they had, they ran into apparently a game play wall. I think considering the nature of superhero games your better off not having a sub system, your content is not made to compete with the fantasy treadmills. And you will probably make more money with expansions anyway.The only problem is that the DCUO budget is probably bloated due to using the DC IP. In which case the micro transactions, something GW kinda avoided for PR reasons not for business reasons, will probably be the primary way to make money beyond the box sales before any expansions are planned.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on June 01, 2010, 08:53:25 PM
DCUO launching November 2010. (http://pc.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-dc-universe/100701) It's in the last 10 seconds or so of that video.

To my knowledge, DCUO hasn't started any kind of public beta. Even closed.

As a title it is planned to launch on both the PS3 and PC simultaneously, although the servers may not be linked.

Now, allegedly the in-game footage used in that video is actually from 2009 and things look better now. I'm guessing this new footage will be shown off at E3. Probably Gotham.

So... 6 months to launch, including all public testing over two different platforms.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on June 02, 2010, 05:02:38 AM
That is- strange.  The game still doesn't even have a real website. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Ollie on June 02, 2010, 05:23:47 AM
The site is beyond awful. They seem to luuurve Facebook, though.

DCUO had a weird hiatus visibility-wise. I remember SOE making all sort of noise back before Champions Online launched, but then the game sort of drifted out of sight. Didn't they have a semi-playable demo at E3 last year, with heroes and villains fighting in opposed PvE missions, or some such? If memory serves, it looked somewhat engaging, though not release-ready by any means.

Who knows, maybe it's all the cross-platform stuff that has held the launch back.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on June 08, 2010, 09:51:28 AM
Same Jens Anderson interview, but this time with new Gotham footage. (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-dc-universe/100701)

I'll leave my comic book nerd hat over there about some of the fights, but really wasn't impressed that all the melee fights were stationary affairs. As soon as players get to them, they won't be.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Malakili on June 08, 2010, 10:20:13 AM
Meh, not that impressed by the video.  Talked a good game, but what dev video hasn't said all the same things.  If/when they actually release on the PS3 I think they'll have a good following, but I don't know about the PC, where the super hero MMOG genre is pretty saturated already.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Grimwell on June 08, 2010, 09:30:03 PM
I don't know about the PC, where the super hero MMOG genre is pretty saturated already.
The super hero MMOG genre has never left the "smaller game" leagues.

Not that CoH and Champions haven't had numbers in the six digit range, but really, that's only saying that they have had the attention of hardcore gamers. Not that it's reached out beyond to the potential audience.



Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Margalis on June 09, 2010, 12:14:53 AM
I'm going to hazard a guess that people were tired of paying for the development and it's just being sent out to recoup whatever it can.

I could be totally wrong on that.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on June 09, 2010, 02:37:42 AM
I can't prove it, but anecdotally CoH/V brought in a lot of first time MMO players who weren't interested in fantasy games.

DCUO might do the same, especially on the PS3. Depends on the business model and how well it plays, of course.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Malakili on June 09, 2010, 05:23:32 AM
I don't know about the PC, where the super hero MMOG genre is pretty saturated already.
The super hero MMOG genre has never left the "smaller game" leagues.

Not that CoH and Champions haven't had numbers in the six digit range, but really, that's only saying that they have had the attention of hardcore gamers. Not that it's reached out beyond to the potential audience.



I just don't think there are that many people interested in a super hero MMMOG.  I mean, played a lot of Champions when it was first released and the last phrase I would use to describe the community there is "hard core gamers"  I suppose its possible that a truly exceptional super hero game could draw a bigger crowd, but I'm not convinced the market for it is all that big.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Lantyssa on June 09, 2010, 06:40:13 AM
I can't prove it, but anecdotally CoH/V brought in a lot of first time MMO players who weren't interested in fantasy games.

DCUO might do the same, especially on the PS3. Depends on the business model and how well it plays, of course.
It might have had an impact if DC hadn't turned their brand to complete shit during the development period of this title.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Malakili on June 09, 2010, 07:33:46 AM
I can't prove it, but anecdotally CoH/V brought in a lot of first time MMO players who weren't interested in fantasy games.

DCUO might do the same, especially on the PS3. Depends on the business model and how well it plays, of course.
It might have had an impact if DC hadn't turned their brand to complete shit during the development period of this title.

To be fair, DC has almost played second fiddle to Marvel in my opinion.  They have batman and....well thats about it.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on June 09, 2010, 08:21:41 AM
DC has the Trinity: Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman. They make mad money on the merchandising.

Forget about the comics. The group who reads them regularly are a small, weird group that I'm not even sure that the comic book companies care about. It's about the characters and IP. There are people interested in DCUO who have never picked up a comic in their lives because they want to fight alongside Superman or spend time in Gotham.

(Not to say that SOE won't have made some decisions that will drive these folks away, but no-one cared about what was happening in Detective Comics when Batman: Arkham Asylum came out and sold 3m units.)


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Malakili on June 09, 2010, 08:36:27 AM
DC has the Trinity: Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman. They make mad money on the merchandising.

Forget about the comics. The group who reads them regularly are a small, weird group that I'm not even sure that the comic book companies care about. It's about the characters and IP. There are people interested in DCUO who have never picked up a comic in their lives because they want to fight alongside Superman or spend time in Gotham.

(Not to say that SOE won't have made some decisions that will drive these folks away, but no-one cared about what was happening in Detective Comics when Batman: Arkham Asylum came out and sold 3m units.)

Hmm, perhaps.  But there is a difference between playing as Batman, and playing as a shoddy knockoff of Batman, at least in my opinion.  Also, Superman and Wonder Woman are pretty much terribly cliches at this point, I don't know who really cares about them.   Maybe you are right, but I don't see how this would draw more fans than something like Champions.  Maybe it will sell more units just based on the brand of DC being more known/popular than the brand of Champions, but I can't seeing it have any more retention past a month or two.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Sky on June 09, 2010, 09:49:34 AM
But there is a difference between playing as Batman, and playing as a shoddy knockoff of Batman, at least in my opinion.
(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/743/thedarkknight49fakebatm.jpg)


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Ollie on June 09, 2010, 01:26:28 PM
Well, aren't you all a bunch of sourpusses. It's a new mum-mum-morpeger with garish costumes, silly names and face-punching. There's absolutely nothing not-awesome about any of it. Where's the enthusiasm? And no, "because SOE is the devil and the game will most likely suck" are not valid excuses.  :yahoo:

Maybe it will sell more units just based on the brand of DC being more known/popular than the brand of Champions, but I can't seeing it have any more retention past a month or two.

I'm not so sure. DCUO would have to take a pretty colossal nosedive to achieve worse retention than Champions. I agree with you on the IP part, though. All licensing ever does is get you a shot at an existing audience. After that, it's up to the game to deliver the goods and convince people to stay.

For my money, if DCUO manages to nail combat and sports a bit more depth in its gameplay than CoH/V or Champions, SOE might have something here. Still, as many have already pointed out, it's the PS3 reception that will make or break this title. It'll be interesting to see what their business model is.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: AutomaticZen on June 09, 2010, 03:25:19 PM
It's quite pretty at least. 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Lantyssa on June 09, 2010, 05:51:19 PM
Well, aren't you all a bunch of sourpusses. It's a new mum-mum-morpeger with garish costumes, silly names and face-punching. There's absolutely nothing not-awesome about any of it. Where's the enthusiasm? And no, "because SOE is the devil and the game will most likely suck" are not valid excuses.
I never thought much of this title in the first place, so I'm not really being any more down about it than previously.  It's an IP I don't like and past videos did not inspire me in the least.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Grimwell on June 09, 2010, 07:39:17 PM
I mean, played a lot of Champions when it was first released and the last phrase I would use to describe the community there is "hard core gamers"  I suppose its possible that a truly exceptional super hero game could draw a bigger crowd, but I'm not convinced the market for it is all that big.
To be a little more clear, my use of the phrase "hard core gamers" is more from the everyman's vantage point than that which we share. We think of hardcore as an extreme compared to the world we know. To normal folks, even knowing what MMORPG, MMOG, MMO, MMOFPS, etc. means is an indicator that you are hardcore. WoW broke that to a point, but the average person who recognizes Batman, Supes, etc. quite likely has no tactile understanding of what a MMO really is.

Further, there was a time when the mainstream wouldn't have anticipated superhero movies breaking box office records - but they have.

Superhero MMO's have that potential, that WoW does - because the IP can have massive appeal - but the ones we have seen to date didn't have an IP that was custom built for the masses, and aren't non-gamer friendly.

DCUO has the right IP - people will understand the idea of "I'm going to play this game and help Superman." which leaves the implementation as the big question.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Kageru on June 10, 2010, 01:02:35 AM
For my money, if DCUO manages to nail combat and sports a bit more depth in its gameplay than CoH/V or Champions, SOE might have something here.

I would be immensely surprised if it had any depth at all. The video's I saw made it pretty clear they were designing for the twitchy console based gamers (as was champions online at the time). Very small number of powers, lots of mashing your attack powers and trying for a "pick up and play" game style with a strong solo experience.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Margalis on June 10, 2010, 02:55:32 AM
...

The IP of World of Warcraft is totally worthless to someone who isn't a "hardcore gamer." Therefore if you are comparing games to WoW based on IP strength and recognition every game has the potential to be a WoW.

MMOs are all about customer retention and word-of-mouth - which are 99% game quality and 1% IP.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Ollie on June 10, 2010, 03:42:19 AM
I would be immensely surprised if it had any depth at all. The video's I saw made it pretty clear they were designing for the twitchy console based gamers (as was champions online at the time). Very small number of powers, lots of mashing your attack powers and trying for a "pick up and play" game style with a strong solo experience.

You're probably right. I rummaged around YouTube, but all the clips that featured hands-on gameplay (with visible UI) were almost a year old. Based solely on that one newer video I've seen, it's hard to say how combat has improved since then. The one thing that did strike me about those older vids was how flat and lacking in tactility the combat seemed. A bit cringe-worthy in a way, since one of DCUO's gimmicks is supposed to be using the environment as a weapon.

Who knows, maybe "DCUO and depth" turns out to be an oxymoron. SOE has kept quiet about non-combat activities, so it might be prudent to approach this title as an arcade action game with a multiplayer component, as opposed to a full-fledged RPG.

My enthusiasm is already waning. I have no follow-through.



Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on June 10, 2010, 07:44:59 AM
I'm curious how launching with only two main zones plus a heavy level of PvP is going to hit DCUO. If it is box cost plus item shop or some other non-sub model, it might work out.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Grimwell on June 10, 2010, 08:17:37 AM
...

The IP of World of Warcraft is totally worthless to someone who isn't a "hardcore gamer." Therefore if you are comparing games to WoW based on IP strength and recognition every game has the potential to be a WoW.

MMOs are all about customer retention and word-of-mouth - which are 99% game quality and 1% IP.

WoW is, and always has been, the exception. It is the only Western MMO that has broken out of the fold and actually hit the mainstream, and it was all about word of mouth from gamers to gamers. It has gone beyond that and is the first MMO for many a person, but it's not a national brand like Bounty paper towels (the quicker picker upper).

No MMO has done that.

So yeah, we agree, mmo's to date are about customer retention and word of mouth referrals - where we differ is how big they have reached. IMO, they simply haven't yet. They are a very viable corner of gaming, and very profitable, but they are not very mainstream.

DCUO has a shot at that, because of the IP. Stack a good, new to MMO'ers, game on top of the IP and it's entirely possible that it will bust out. Stack a standard MMO on top of it and it's going to be in the typical niche that mainstream really does not know or understand (even if it's profitable in that niche).


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Sky on June 10, 2010, 09:14:15 AM
Didn't WoW have a very long open beta to suck people in, too? A long (literal) f2p done competently and with some polish before release didn't hurt.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Trippy on June 10, 2010, 11:37:58 AM
Didn't WoW have a very long open beta to suck people in, too? A long (literal) f2p done competently and with some polish before release didn't hurt.
Open beta was short (2 weeks). From Blizzard's perspective it really was just their final stress test (there was a FilePlanet user-specific stress test right before the open one). The closed beta starting in March didn't have an NDA, though, so people interested in the game could learn about it in detail well in advance of release.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Sky on June 10, 2010, 12:41:32 PM
Yep, refreshed my memory.

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=52.0

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Lietgardis on June 11, 2010, 12:33:59 PM
I seem to remember that Blizzard encouraged players to post public reports on their awesome time in closed beta, too.  I see a few at a glance in that old thread.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on June 15, 2010, 07:41:38 AM
The DCUO E3 trailer (http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/06/14/world-premier-of-the-dc-universe-online-official-e3-trailer/)

Because a fuller version of the footage is around, it is clear to see how a number of criticisms against DCUO were downplayed / hidden in this trailer by having quicker cuts between the action.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Ollie on June 18, 2010, 03:43:09 AM
Six minutes of in-game footage. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPST4E9EEMQ&feature=player_embedded#!) I have to admit I was positively surprised. Quite a difference compared to a year ago.

Also, according to this article from Massively (http://www.massively.com/2010/06/17/e3-2010-dc-universe-online-takes-it-up-a-notch/), DCUO will launch with a standard $14.99 a month subscription fee.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on June 18, 2010, 05:37:07 AM
Six minutes of in-game footage. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPST4E9EEMQ&feature=player_embedded#!) I have to admit I was positively surprised. Quite a difference compared to a year ago.

Also, according to this article from Massively (http://www.massively.com/2010/06/17/e3-2010-dc-universe-online-takes-it-up-a-notch/), DCUO will launch with a standard $14.99 a month subscription fee.

That did look good.  But is the game all punching and kicking?  Where are the actual, um, powers? 


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on June 18, 2010, 11:19:59 PM
Yeah, that looked good.

However, at five months from launch it isn't a good sign that things like the 'secret identity system' can't yet be talked about.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Triforcer on June 19, 2010, 03:17:27 PM
A few tidbits I've picked up from random articles:

(1)  There will be PvP servers- good.  Only lame battlegrounds would have been stupid.  Even WHO, the ostensible "PvP" game, had carefully constructed tiers and open RvR lakes.  If these PvP servers are truly wide open (maybe they won't be, I suppose I could live with plus/minus 10 level restrictions) it'll already be a superior PvP game.  I want the PvP servers to be fucking Beirut, where you can't take a stroll down the street or do a quest without random gankers. 

(2)  3000 people per server.  Again, good.  None of this fucking stupid "all servers are one server, you enter a random instance with 98 people" shit.  YOu can't build a community or relationships that way.  

(3)  There will be a total (at least at launch) of 80-90 named heroes/villains.  EACH will have an iconic suit of endgame armor if you stick with them as your mentor.  So Batman and Superman and Joker gives stuff out, but you could end up with a Psycho Pirate or Blue Beetle set of equipment if you stuck with them instead.



Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Ghambit on June 19, 2010, 03:51:52 PM
Well shit.  That was kinda awesome.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Margalis on June 19, 2010, 06:40:57 PM
I'm going to elaborate when I do my big writeup in the E3 thread but this game looked horrendous at E3, one of the worst games there.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on June 20, 2010, 01:45:00 AM
Not sure if it is in here yet (and even some people at SOE E3's stand appear confused) but it appears pretty certain that there won't be cross-server PS3 and PC play (http://dcuosource.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4707&sid=04e5d7e7a97e7caceaa5c49c1b5293f8).


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: LK on June 20, 2010, 07:28:33 PM
I'm curious how launching with only two main zones plus a heavy level of PvP is going to hit DCUO. If it is box cost plus item shop or some other non-sub model, it might work out.

Saw this and thought of APB.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on June 20, 2010, 08:05:23 PM
I'm curious how launching with only two main zones plus a heavy level of PvP is going to hit DCUO. If it is box cost plus item shop or some other non-sub model, it might work out.

Saw this and thought of APB.

Just to confirm: box cost and sub-fee model with item shop. The original plan was for it to be PvP heavy, but I'm not sure what the difference between a PvP server and a PvE server would be in that case.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: HaemishM on June 21, 2010, 02:46:45 PM
That six-minute video was the first decent looking thing I've seen out of this game.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on July 14, 2010, 12:41:38 AM
Beta keys are being given out at ComicCon if you can make it to the DCUO session on 24 July. (http://www.superherohype.com/news/articles/103749-the-comic-con-saturday-july-24-schedule)

Quote
3:30-4:30 DC Universe Online: The Next Legend Is You!— Superstars Jim Lee (Batman: Hush) and Mark Hamill (voice of The Joker, Batman: Arkham Asylum and Batman: The Animated Series) join forces with the DC Universe Online development team to reveal the exciting backstory of this action MMO (Massively Multiplayer Online) game. Jim, Mark, and key members of the development team from Sony Online Entertainment discuss how an earth-shattering chain of events will make you the key to the salvation or ruin of the DC Universe when the game launches this November. All attendees will receive a DCUO VIP Beta Key! Room 5AB

Spare DCUO beta keys always welcome. (Not sure my PC can play it, but I can worry about that when I get the key!).


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: raydeen on July 14, 2010, 02:08:55 AM
Wish I could see it right now but YouTube appears to be taking the Mickey atm. I will say from the above comments that it's preventing me from resubbing to CoX which was a fav for many years. When I see a glimmer of hope in the posts of f13...it makes my heart beat faster and I feel the world is possibly once again safe for democracy. My faith in MMOGs is beginning to renew...


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: LK on July 14, 2010, 10:58:41 AM
This game isn't out yet? Between Cataclysm, SWTOR, and FFXIV, this thing is falling farther and farther into irrelevance.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on July 14, 2010, 06:13:09 PM
DCUO Source fans are currently into the "They only need a month for a public stress test before launch because SOE have been doing friends and family testing for a while now" phase of launch anticipation.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: UnSub on July 20, 2010, 01:15:48 AM
DCUO announces their pre-order bonuses (http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150232611185717), THEN the open beta registration notice (http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150232617260717).

Seems a bit backward to me.

Can we change the name of this thread, given that it launches in a few months?


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: Kageru on July 20, 2010, 06:34:15 AM

I thought this game was going to be free with micro-transactions which seemed to well suit the shallow and simplistic / PvP focused gameplay. Subscription fee plus MT means it had better be a whole lot more impressive than anything I've heard so far.

But it's SOE, so I'm going to assume it's terrible.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Open beta incoming.
Post by: Triforcer on July 20, 2010, 04:23:00 PM
I'm preordering- I just pray it isn't as shallow as Champions Online.  Or that the "huge" world is empty because the real content is instanced out the ass.  Just fucking once more in my life I'd like to play an MMO that isn't addicted to instancing.  It's lazy and immersion-breaking and renders the "real" world of the game meaningless and useless. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Open beta incoming.
Post by: Malakili on July 20, 2010, 04:27:39 PM
I'm preordering- I just pray it isn't as shallow as Champions Online.  Or that the "huge" world is empty because the real content is instanced out the ass.  Just fucking once more in my life I'd like to play an MMO that isn't addicted to instancing.  It's lazy and immersion-breaking and renders the "real" world of the game meaningless and useless. 

And THIS is the gaming your hanging that hope on?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Open beta incoming.
Post by: Triforcer on July 20, 2010, 04:31:06 PM
If I can get a couple good months of open world pvp on the pvp servers out of it, that's enough for me.  Screw this fucking arena and BG shit.  What is the point of PvP if the other side expects you to be there and attack them? 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: Shatter on July 21, 2010, 05:29:48 AM
This game does not give me an MMOrection at all. I honestly cant see 1 thing that makes me want to play this. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: Ollie on July 21, 2010, 08:48:04 AM
Men in skin-tight leotards? No?

I'll give this one a whirl, even if it turns out to be a tepid vacuous shell of an action arcade game fishing for a monthly fee. Still waiting for info on whether the PC folks can mingle with the PS3 crowd, though I have a sneaking suspicion the answer will be no. Or did they release that info already?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Open beta incoming.
Post by: HaemishM on July 21, 2010, 08:50:04 AM
If I can get a couple good months of open world pvp on the pvp servers out of it, that's enough for me.  Screw this fucking arena and BG shit.  What is the point of PvP if the other side expects you to be there and attack them? 

You do realize the missions in DC Universe Online are all instanced, right?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: Jamiko on July 21, 2010, 11:20:47 AM
Still waiting for info on whether the PC folks can mingle with the PS3 crowd, though I have a sneaking suspicion the answer will be no. Or did they release that info already?

Quote
Jens Andersen wrote this:
Not sure what the confusion is that we need to confirm but here goes...ps3 and pc will play on their own servers at launch. This decision was made final just a week before E3, before then we really weren't sure how it would pan out. There are both design and business reasons why the decision was made. On the design side I can tell you that ..ecommunication is a big consideration. The two communities are used to differernt things and those options don't always play nice with each other in our experience. The biz side isn't simply a question of what makes more money, contrary to what people are assuming. There are lots of complicated issues because this type of service hasn't been very well explored. I honestly believe both types of servers will have sufficient populations. And when other games of this type have run into that problem they simply merge servers to make sure populations are in balance. We've always said we hoped we could do this, technically it is possible, but there are pros and cons in each option. This one made the most sense for us at launch.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Open beta incoming.
Post by: Typhon on July 21, 2010, 12:35:17 PM
If I can get a couple good months of open world pvp on the pvp servers out of it, that's enough for me.  Screw this fucking arena and BG shit.  What is the point of PvP if the other side expects you to be there and attack them? 

You do realize the missions in DC Universe Online are all instanced, right?

I honestly thought he was just trolling.  "What is the point of PvP if the other side expects you to be there and attack them?", almost made me post, "I expect better from you, have you been feeling alight?", or, "that's just lazy, I know you can troll better than this!".


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Open beta incoming.
Post by: Threash on July 21, 2010, 01:02:27 PM
If I can get a couple good months of open world pvp on the pvp servers out of it, that's enough for me.  Screw this fucking arena and BG shit.  What is the point of PvP if the other side expects you to be there and attack them? 

You do realize the missions in DC Universe Online are all instanced, right?

I honestly thought he was just trolling.  "What is the point of PvP if the other side expects you to be there and attack them?", almost made me post, "I expect better from you, have you been feeling alight?", or, "that's just lazy, I know you can troll better than this!".

Exactly, what is the point of any other kind of pvp?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: Triforcer on July 21, 2010, 04:02:07 PM
I was serious.  The thrill of the hunt in PvP is what matters.  You disrupt a guy from leveling, repeatedly.  He tries to watch his back, brings friends, maybe the next night he ruins your leveling.  Grudges and blood feuds spread. 

Doing instanced PvP in MMOs is deliberately choosing to pay for something inferior to what you get in free FPSes.  The ONLY advantage of MMO PvP is the anytime, anywhere, aspect of it (assuming the game has open PvP). 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on July 21, 2010, 04:03:35 PM
All you are saying sounds to me like "i want to fight people who have no chance to fight back".  Thrill of the hunt my ass.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: Triforcer on July 21, 2010, 04:27:21 PM
All you are saying sounds to me like "i want to fight people who have no chance to fight back".  Thrill of the hunt my ass.

2001 called, it wants its tired cliches back.  But I guess you are right.  Why do hunters go in the forest when they can just hire a company to restrain a deer in their backyard and shoot it point-blank?  Fucking forest griefers. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on July 21, 2010, 04:31:09 PM
Deer fight back?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: NiX on July 21, 2010, 04:45:58 PM
Stop shitting up the thread.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on July 21, 2010, 08:19:30 PM
DCUO originally promised that players could interfere with opposing players who were on their way to do missions via PvP - the whole 'hero versus villain' thing. Then they announced PvP servers. God knows what the end result is going to be.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: Margalis on July 22, 2010, 12:09:55 AM
I agree with Triforcer, if you want organized instanced PVP why not play a game that does it well? A game with better controls, a better combat system and less reliance on stats and gear. The main draw of MMO PvP to me is also the free form nature of it, otherwise you're getting together to play a really bad version of a different game.

Now where Triforcer is wrong is that DCUO is going to be absolutely terrible, most likely worse than any of the generic free MMOs at E3. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being one of the worst MMOs of all time. I will happily quote myself down the road if I'm right, if not Triforcer can mockingly quote me.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on July 24, 2010, 05:16:34 AM
DCUO does one heck of an intro cinematic. (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-who-dc-universe/702049)

However, this makes 3 superhero MMOs from 3 that appear to kick off with an alien invasion as the primary threat.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on July 24, 2010, 05:36:23 AM

Plastic action figure smashem kapow! ka-bloey! bash - bash - bash...

So dull I didn't make it to the end. It was a bunch of IP based fan fiction that didn't focus on the only hero I care about... the one I'm going to be making (were I to play the game). I fear the game will be full of the same sort of thing with lots of "you get to be batman's peon! how lucky are you!".

Blizzard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFTWDJ25zdc). and many others, are a whole heap smarter. An opening sets the scene, stirring music and "adventurers" doing cool things in cool locations. You can be one of them and visit these places.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on July 24, 2010, 05:44:50 AM
I saw Blizzard's Starcraft II cinematic and thought it was a cliched POS, full of manly men with manly voices based on the Gears of War School of Voice Acting.

Personal preference of course - I appreciated seeing Black Adam and Superman go at it.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on July 24, 2010, 07:14:32 AM
I thought it was one of the best trailers ever.  Not that it tells me absolutely anything about the game, but i'd be lying if i said i wasn't more interested in playing after watching it.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on July 24, 2010, 08:05:58 AM
I fear the game will be full of the same sort of thing with lots of "you get to be batman's peon! how lucky are you!".



I think this is pretty much whats going to happen.  Its one of the reasons I bought Champions instead of waiting for this actually (as if I couldn't get both is I really wanted  :awesome_for_real:)  Champions has its share of problems, but damned if you can't make a real cool hero.

I think that part where Batman says "Cyborg shoot at Luther while I call in an air strike" is going to sum up the Hero - Player relationship.   

"Do what I say, I'm the god damned bat man"


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: Simond on July 24, 2010, 10:33:40 AM
Well, he is.


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: palmer_eldritch on July 24, 2010, 03:40:01 PM
DCUO announces their pre-order bonuses (http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150232611185717), THEN the open beta registration notice (http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150232617260717).

Seems a bit backward to me.

Can we change the name of this thread, given that it launches in a few months?

About the thread title: beta applications have opened, it's not open beta yet.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: Soulflame on July 24, 2010, 04:03:52 PM
I was serious.  The thrill of the hunt in PvP is what matters.  You disrupt a guy from leveling, repeatedly.  He tries to watch his back, brings friends, maybe the next night he ruins your leveling.  Grudges and blood feuds spread. 

Doing instanced PvP in MMOs is deliberately choosing to pay for something inferior to what you get in free FPSes.  The ONLY advantage of MMO PvP is the anytime, anywhere, aspect of it (assuming the game has open PvP). 
You can't be serious, right?  More like "I harass someone who can't fight back, person logs off and decides to play WoW instead."


Title: Re: New DCUO info and trailer!
Post by: NiX on July 24, 2010, 04:06:55 PM
About the thread title: beta applications have opened, it's not open beta yet.

Fixed so no one is misled and breaks down into a pile of tears.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: palmer_eldritch on July 24, 2010, 04:19:27 PM
Too late for that, my friend.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on July 24, 2010, 06:13:39 PM

You can tell it's a very modern MMO. They've announced a complex pre-order bonus scheme before they actually start beta-testing it.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: LK on July 24, 2010, 08:39:06 PM
Saw something about being able to play Batman. So they're including a copy of Arkham Asylum with every preordered game?

Also, box cover art has Batman and Joker more prominently than Superman (Superman.) and Luthor. I found this amusing.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on July 24, 2010, 09:33:23 PM
I think - not 100% sure - that some arena matches will allow you take over as key DC characters to fight it out in PvP.

For the 5 or 6 years DCUO has been in development, it really does seem a lot of things are being left to last minute. Especially beta. Again, DCUO Source has been a, well, source of amusement for the "they don't need a long beta - they've had internal friends-and-family testing" posts.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on July 25, 2010, 01:18:43 AM
I think - not 100% sure - that some arena matches will allow you take over as key DC characters to fight it out in PvP.

Sounds like the pre-order bonus,

Quote
Several major retailers will be offering pre-order perks to customers, all of them including the ability to play as one of the DC Universe’s  iconic characters, Batman! Players will be able to play as the Dark Knight in an exclusivetwo-on-two (Player-vs.-Player) combat arena.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on July 25, 2010, 08:08:25 AM
Can someone help me identify some of the characters on that trailer?  Like the giant chick, the electricity shooting chick that kills Wonder Woman, the guy fighting Batman when the Joker kills them both and the guy fighting the Green Lantern (Sinestro? i thought he had a yellow ring? He does yell Shazaam! and Luthor calls him Adam).


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: LK on July 25, 2010, 08:31:47 AM
Black Adam fought Green Lantern, big chick is Giganta...


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Slyfeind on July 25, 2010, 08:48:06 AM
Cool fight scene at least. OMG Joker sounds like Mark Hamill and Batman sounds like Kevin Conroy, etc!


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on July 25, 2010, 09:03:38 AM
Ah, Giganta i should have known.  Never heard of Black Adam, odd he got a starring role on the trailer.  Still don't know who the guy fighting Batman was, i think Luthor called him Destro but that's a different cartoon.  Also the robot fighting Wonder Woman, just a henchbot or is that a specific villain?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: NowhereMan on July 25, 2010, 10:53:08 AM
Batman was fighting Deathstroke (also known as the Terminator, at least until there was some sort of legal action I believe) who has the power to predict what his opponents will do in a fight. If you think he looks a lot like Marvel's Deadpool that's because Deadpool was a 90's rip-off/parody of him.

Black Adam is a Capt. Marvel villain, one of the few villains it would make sense to have take on Superman one on one.

I think the Robot might have been Metallo (the man with a Kryptonite heart), that's just based on all the green glowy stuff. Not really sure who the chick that killed Wonder Woman was though.

Apparently you can choose your mentor in the game from a large cast, with the end result being a special armour given to you by your main mentor (so if you picked Blue Beetle you get some rip-off Blue beetle costume, likely leading to a million people wearing Batman's costume). I think this is going to probably be like Guild Wars with an IP.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Cadaverine on July 25, 2010, 11:07:43 AM
Cool fight scene at least. OMG Joker sounds like Mark Hamill and Batman sounds like Kevin Conroy, etc!

It is Hamill, and Conroy.  Not sure who the chick, or the robot were, though.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Soln on July 25, 2010, 11:17:51 AM
Apparently you can choose your mentor in the game from a large cast, with the end result being a special armour given to you by your main mentor (so if you picked Blue Beetle you get some rip-off Blue beetle costume, likely leading to a million people wearing Batman's costume). I think this is going to probably be like Guild Wars with an IP.

interesting design.  Hopefully this won't suck donkey balls.


So other than Free Realms, DCUO is SOE's first big MMO after EQ2?   I know the Agency is in perpertual dev, but if this is SOE's next flagship MMO I would hope they've learned from EQ2 and CoX and WoW.   Are people optimistic at all?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: raydeen on July 25, 2010, 11:48:32 AM
Are people optimistic at all?

Myself? Cautiously. I'm liking what I'm seeing so far. I'm not head over heels have to buy it on Day One yet.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on July 25, 2010, 12:24:18 PM

Black Adam is a Capt. Marvel villain, one of the few villains it would make sense to have take on Superman one on one.


I guess so, dude took out Green Lantern, Flash and Cyborg and survived what looked like a nuclear explosion that he himself caused.  Is the character creator going to be anywhere near Champions or APB levels? the idea of getting a set of armor from your mentor makes me think this is going to be more like WoW type armor sets than a premade character look.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: PalmTrees on July 25, 2010, 04:03:01 PM
The woman fighting wonder Woman is Circe, from the mythological side of WW's rogue's gallery.



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Ghambit on July 25, 2010, 04:32:09 PM
Any word on if they'll grow some nads and include some DC Vertigo stuff?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: NowhereMan on July 25, 2010, 05:41:39 PM

I guess so, dude took out Green Lantern, Flash and Cyborg and survived what looked like a nuclear explosion that he himself caused.  Is the character creator going to be anywhere near Champions or APB levels? the idea of getting a set of armor from your mentor makes me think this is going to be more like WoW type armor sets than a premade character look.

I got the impression that the armour is going to be a set appearance derived from (or possibly even some copy of) that mentor's look. Also Black Adam is basically evil Capt. Marvel, Supes level strength and speed but a magical power source, the nuke was him speaking his magic word, that grants it with a lightning strike. I'm kind of annoyed at armoured Flash though just because the dude is already dealing with super speed friction, the armour can only be cosmetic. Of course if that was the smallest lore issue with the whole game I doubt it would be any fun to play at all.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on July 25, 2010, 06:24:46 PM
Apparently if you go through that trailer frame by frame you can see Green Arrow's corpse and that Harley Quinn is wearing Robin's cape.

As for character customisation: DCUO has to have been watching CoH/V and ChampO. They know a robust character creator is a basic part of the superhero MMO. Won't be as good as APB, but should still be pretty versatile (although early comments were that certain costumes would be locked to certain origins, like magic outfits for magic-based characters).

Also, you can equip armour loot and then choose to disable the appearance of it, EQ2 style.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on July 25, 2010, 06:45:15 PM
Green arrows corpse was pretty blatant, no need to go frame by frame.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: HaemishM on July 26, 2010, 11:30:59 AM
Cool fight scene at least. OMG Joker sounds like Mark Hamill and Batman sounds like Kevin Conroy, etc!

The Joker sounded ok, but Batman sounded like someone trying to mimic Conroy without having Conroy's talent.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on July 26, 2010, 11:57:52 AM
But it is him.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: HaemishM on July 26, 2010, 12:06:17 PM
Then he really phoned it in.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Slyfeind on July 26, 2010, 05:01:54 PM
Or he's getting old. He's been voicing Batman for 15 years, or just about.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: Sir T on July 26, 2010, 10:09:46 PM
DCUO does one heck of an intro cinematic. (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-who-dc-universe/702049)

However, this makes 3 superhero MMOs from 3 that appear to kick off with an alien invasion as the primary threat.

I thought that was excellent. Cautiously looking forward to this one.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for open beta on main site now.
Post by: Shatter on July 27, 2010, 05:20:59 AM
DCUO does one heck of an intro cinematic. (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-who-dc-universe/702049)

However, this makes 3 superhero MMOs from 3 that appear to kick off with an alien invasion as the primary threat.

I thought that was excellent. Cautiously looking forward to this one.

ITS A TRAP!


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Modern Angel on July 27, 2010, 08:27:31 AM
It's an intro cinematic. Don't get excited about that. Warhammer had a good one, too.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: NiX on July 27, 2010, 10:02:22 AM
It's an intro cinematic. Don't get excited about that. Warhammer had a good one, too.

This man speaks the truth.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Typhon on July 27, 2010, 10:13:47 AM
Good trailer, was exciting.  If I draw anything from that it's, "cool, they care enough about this game to hire someone really good to create their trailers, hopefully they also care about their game".


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: palmer_eldritch on July 29, 2010, 05:18:39 PM
Any word on if they'll grow some nads and include some DC Vertigo stuff?

Sounds fun but what could they put in? The Vertigo comics don't have many heroes that win battles by punching people.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: LK on July 29, 2010, 05:30:42 PM
Giganta, as usual, has a walk-on role. I'm not even sure what she was doing there except for "I'm going to walk idly in a war zone and get FLATTENED ON MY ASS LOL I HAVE GIANT TITS"


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Triforcer on August 02, 2010, 12:05:39 AM
Giganta, as usual, has a walk-on role. I'm not even sure what she was doing there except for "I'm going to walk idly in a war zone and get FLATTENED ON MY ASS LOL I HAVE GIANT TITS"

How did Giganta ever survive if one energy blast kills her?  She is rather a large target. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Furiously on August 02, 2010, 01:24:26 AM
Giganta, as usual, has a walk-on role. I'm not even sure what she was doing there except for "I'm going to walk idly in a war zone and get FLATTENED ON MY ASS LOL I HAVE GIANT TITS"

How did Giganta ever survive if one energy blast kills her?  She is rather a large target. 

I thought she had a thing with Gorilla Grodd...


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on August 02, 2010, 07:07:49 AM
Giganta, as usual, has a walk-on role. I'm not even sure what she was doing there except for "I'm going to walk idly in a war zone and get FLATTENED ON MY ASS LOL I HAVE GIANT TITS"

How did Giganta ever survive if one energy blast kills her?  She is rather a large target.  

Well to be fair to her it looked like the battle was well underway at that point.  Something had to flatten the city and Green Arrow was already toast.  What bugged me is that the heroes fared horribly in the fight.  Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Batman and Cyborg only manage to take out Giganta, the Joker killed the only other bad guy with his rocket.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on August 02, 2010, 07:43:18 AM
Every "we desperately need your help"/What-If plot has the heroes losing horribly.

There's not much call for help from Peace World 001.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Brogarn on August 02, 2010, 09:41:12 AM
Every "we desperately need your help"/What-If plot has the heroes losing horribly.

There's not much call for help from Peace World 001.

Heh. Maybe they have a jar that needs opening! Couch moved! Cat up in tree! Peace World 001 is more stressful than you think...


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on August 02, 2010, 11:03:29 AM
Nope.  In these worlds, the mad scientists have banded together to solve all those everyday problems.  Robotic furniture movers!  Rubber jar grips!  Ladders!


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Brogarn on August 02, 2010, 12:00:51 PM
Nope.  In these worlds, the mad scientists have banded together to solve all those everyday problems.  Robotic furniture movers!  Rubber jar grips!  Ladders!

Damn those mad scientists! They've made the world predictable! Mundane! Boring! Our citizens need excitement! So the heck with heroes, they need villains!


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Triforcer on August 07, 2010, 10:09:05 AM
So, there was an interesting reveal at the Fan Faire.  If you have never ever followed the history of MMO development, ever, prepare to replace your shattered monocle.

- ORIGINALLY: 10 powers, each with a possible Meta, Magic, or Gadget origin (I.e., you could be a fire wizard, a fire meta, or a guy shooting a fire gun)

- NOW:  6 powers.  Fire, Ice, Mental, Nature, Gadgets, and Sorcery.  Beyond the obvious that 6 is less than 10, see what they did there?


They were pimping Electric, Earth, and Light constructs (think Green Lantern) at every demo until now, but there has been a recent "massive overhaul" in the game's design  :oh_i_see:


Also, a level cap at release of 30.


EDIT:  Release is Nov. 2, in case it wasn't obvious from the above


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on August 07, 2010, 10:45:27 AM


- ORIGINALLY: 10 powers, each with a possible Meta, Magic, or Gadget origin (I.e., you could be a fire wizard, a fire meta, or a guy shooting a fire gun)

- NOW:  6 powers.  Fire, Ice, Mental, Nature, Gadgets, and Sorcery.  Beyond the obvious that 6 is less than 10, see what they did there?

:ye_gods:

Not surprisingly, but 6 really standard power sets is not going to cut it.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Goreschach on August 07, 2010, 01:33:42 PM
The really stupid thing about that is when you start trying to classify DC heroes into those six groups, and find out that the majority don't even make sense.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on August 07, 2010, 05:42:49 PM

And in all probability the majority of the powers are similar in operation and differ mainly in animation and visual appearance. So all of them will have bolts, holds, stuns and maybe one or two unique functions. Certainly the guy demonstrating mental powers in the video was spending most of his time shooting headache bolts and demonstrated a "mental force sphere" to hold an opponent.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Modern Angel on August 07, 2010, 05:49:10 PM
No super strength brawler type in there? What?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on August 07, 2010, 05:56:29 PM
No super strength brawler type in there? What?

Yeah, I thought that was noticeably absent as well. Maybe "nature" means "Natural ability?" (strong/fast/whatever?) Thats pushing it I know.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on August 07, 2010, 09:20:33 PM
You'll see! They'll add in stats and that will fix everything!  :grin:

EDIT: Watched the video:

- 10 weapon types, each with combo trees. Combos restore your power (endurance) you use to activate superpowers. Includes dual pistols.

- Each of those six power sets has two 'trees'.

- Iconic powers include heat vision, cold breath, GL shield bubble.

- Skill trees offer movement power advantages and other benefits. Contained within weapon trees (?). Achieve 'feats' (i.e Achievements) to buy weapon types.

- Defender, healer, controller roles, but "everybody fights" (has to fight to build combos that fuel powers).

- Travel powers are still flight, acrobatics and superspeed. You can upgrade them.

- The Big 6 are: Lex Luthor, Joker, Circe, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman. These characters are head of each origin (meta, tech, magic) for each side, and your origin picks your 'mentor' (which of the 6 your character story is most heavily involved with).

- Episodic content i.e story arcs. Plus end game content, groups, raids, alert zones (open missions that TP players into an instanced zone).

- PvP: open rule allowing players to flag their status. PvP raid experiences available. Legends PvP sees you pick pre-existing DC characters and fight it out.

- Major cities are Gotham and Metropolis. Seamless zones.

- "Business decisions are still to be made".

- Travel power 'race' mini-game.

- Launching with level 30 cap.

ADDITIONAL FROM SOMEONE WHO SAYS THE WERE THERE (http://www.dcuosource.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=137678#p137678):

 - Fire and Ice are Tank powers. Nature and Sorcery are Healing powers. Mental and Gadgets are Controlling powers. Every character gets DPS.

 - UI is still the subject of a lot of work.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: eldaec on August 08, 2010, 07:59:33 AM
Best way to sum this game up is that it has me looking forward to the first month - but I have no expectation of subscribing whatsoever.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: LK on August 08, 2010, 12:47:33 PM
I will not be the least bit surprised if Batman / Joker are the highest of the high when it comes to people picking up them as master.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Modern Angel on August 09, 2010, 04:57:42 AM
This sounds pretty awful to be honest.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: rk47 on August 09, 2010, 05:29:53 AM
It's not really a crowd puller to be honest, unless you can be a member of Batman's Outsiders or Green Lantern Corps.
This one's pretty much going under the radar unless they can show something that make City of Heroes look outdated. If all they have to show for is IP, then I'll wait for Arkham Asylum 2 instead.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on August 09, 2010, 05:58:49 PM
They've been riding the IP hard for a while now as their key selling point.

I had a thought the other night that although it is launching on both the PC and PS3, they are treating it more like a console title release than a PC MMO release. Although I'm sure SOE wouldn't mind if DCUO sold (and maintained) big numbers on the PC, I get the impression the real focus is on the question, "can a PS3 MMO get and keep console players?".


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Ashamanchill on August 16, 2010, 02:48:08 AM
Nope.  In these worlds, the mad scientists have banded together to solve all those everyday problems.  Robotic furniture movers!  Rubber jar grips!  Ladders!

Lol. Oh Lantyssa, you're too much. This post made my think of some Dr. Robotnic, with some crazy Rube Goldberg machine with lots of spinning wheels and crazy extendo arms, just to get him the mayonaise out of the fridge.

NOW:  6 powers.  Fire, Ice, Mental, Nature, Gadgets, and Sorcery.  Beyond the obvious that 6 is less than 10, see what they did theree?

- The Big 6 are: Lex Luthor, Joker, Circe, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman. These characters are head of each origin (meta, tech, magic) for each side, and your origin picks your 'mentor' (which of the 6 your character story is most heavily involved with).

WTF power does superman fit into here? Or does being from a planet with a heavier sun count as 'nature'?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on August 16, 2010, 08:52:37 AM
SOE hasn't really thought to answer that, other than to point at the iconic power tree and suggest he gets a lot of powers from there.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Simond on August 16, 2010, 12:15:31 PM
Sunlight is natural, right?  :grin:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on August 29, 2010, 05:33:06 AM
Massively interview with Chris Cao. (http://www.massively.com/2010/08/28/exclusive-interview-dcuos-game-director-chris-cao/)

When asked about what powers are available for players:

Quote
Well we aren't going into all the details just yet. In fact, this week we found some things that [made us] fundamentally change the way some powers work. We are actually going to [give a list of powers] once we are pretty certain that they aren't going to radically change.

It's just under two months til launch, still no announcement of a public beta date (open or closed) and large changes are going on behind the scenes regarding basic gameplay features. Ooo, launch is going to be fun.

EDIT: DCUO will also be on SOE's Station Pass.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Triforcer on August 29, 2010, 08:18:35 PM
They said beta would start first week of August.  I'm betting that's the exact time someone who actually codes said, "um, this game is 18 months from being ready for release."

So, cue the two month delay (my prediction) to get 18 months of work into about 3 months.  


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: eldaec on August 30, 2010, 02:13:06 AM
SOE hasn't really thought to answer that, other than to point at the iconic power tree and suggest he gets a lot of powers from there.

Origin doesn't need to have any more impact than it did in cox.

I imagine superman and joker are considered 'meta' origin because they 'just do' have powers, and the main impact will be on mission text/cutscenes which won't refer to magic or technology.

I doubt this is SOEs biggest concern on DCUO right now.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Shatter on August 30, 2010, 07:25:06 AM
Yeah this has fallen into the scary category.  No beta to speak of at the moment meaning OB will be too short so a lot of problems will make it to live and many systems just wont get the testing they should.  Tie into that what sounds like some fairly signifigant changes to basically one of the most important parts of any MMO(Abilities) this close to launch.  I was willing to give SOE a fair shake but so far all I see with this is the same ole same ole.  Its likely the best thing this game will ever be was that trailer. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: HaemishM on August 30, 2010, 02:39:18 PM
Beta still hasn't started in full yet? Two months away? AND they are changing fundamental aspects of the game design?

Proper fucked.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Tearofsoul on August 30, 2010, 05:00:25 PM
Unless they push back the release date, otherwise ......  :heartbreak:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on August 30, 2010, 08:13:34 PM

If you know the game stinks no point in letting people have a good sniff before you've got their money.

I'd not be surprised if the open-beta is also timed (like APB), limited and primarily promotional. I also expect we'll be seeing this approach a lot more. Especially in the wake of APB exploding.

... I'm old enough I remember when SoE were relevant :(


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Sir T on August 31, 2010, 04:08:09 AM
Actually a fair amount of info in the wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_Universe_Online). Wall of text warning



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on September 06, 2010, 06:35:59 PM
Jens Andersen says (on Facebook) don't plan on getting into the beta, just get ready to buy the game. (Link to a forum post) (http://www.dcuosource.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=162291#p162291)

Quote
JENS ANDERSON We've simply been really busy finishing the game. We've announced our release date so I would plan around that date and not assume you will get an opportunity at beta. Then you will either get the game when it releases and if you get a peek early it's gravy.

EDIT: Because I think I'm a bit of a broken record on DCUO - I'm interested in it as a title, but also this is the supposedly experienced SOE publishing a title using some fairly big geek IP and going out to both PC and PS3 at (theoretically) the same time. That it appears to be going completely against the grain of what a good MMO launch cycle should be, it's piqued my interest. Piqued.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: HaemishM on September 06, 2010, 08:26:20 PM
Yeah, your beta? Get ready to pay for it.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Triforcer on September 06, 2010, 08:29:42 PM
How is this piquing your interest?  Its obvious this isn't some sort of Machiavellian revolutionary new launch strategy, its "oh shit oh shit oh shit, this REALLY is 15 months from release" panic. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on September 07, 2010, 09:40:13 AM
This is the same company that decided to make Clone Wars a pretty Club Penguin instead of Free Realms in Space.  If past behavior wasn't sufficient, I think we can safely say they are clueless and do not like money hats.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on September 07, 2010, 06:23:29 PM
How is this piquing your interest?   

I like superhero MMOs.

Also, outside of the indie MMOs who were probably too stretched to afford a beta, this is the first MMO I'm aware of where just months from launch the devs are still pussyfooting around basic in-game information, such as what crafting will be in the game (http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/350/feature/4519/page/1) (from Chris Cao):

Quote
I like crafting. As Lead Designer of EQII, I worked to put in a dedicated crafting progression and product path. It made sense for the game and it built on the tradition Everquest had established.

As the Game Director of DCUO, I chose to pursue the ‘DC’ (Detective Comics) part of the universe with investigations and collections. They made sense for the game and the tradition of the DC Universe. But they are not ‘crafting.’ You can’t kill a deer in DCUO and make a hat out of it.

But you can scour the alleys of Gotham to find clues left behind by The Riddler. You can leap from roof-top to roof-top as you search for scattered sections of Brainiac’s technology. And you can listen to news reports by Lois Land and Vicki Vale that tell tale of nefarious goings-on.

In DCUO, you’re making your own superhero or super villain. You’re crafting your own legend.

WTF was that? What kind of crafting IS in DCUO? What do you get out of it? It sounds like STO's memory alpha system - find salvage trash, give it to an NPC who turns it into an item. It wasn't very popular there.

I could be completely wrong and SOE has been running a secret closed beta that was knocked out all bugs and tested the gameplay, but for a title that will be the first major MMO on a console in a long time, SOE are certainly going about things in a funny way. Beta hasn't even been confirmed as happening yet - no date set - while the marketing budget for this title appears to be less than $20, given the reliance on Facebook, Twitter and devs showing off the same areas of DCUO over and over and over again. There are no official forums.

A lot of people were disappointed with ChampO. If DCUO goes as expected, I think there will be about 10x the reaction from outraged fanbois - especially PC fanbois who find out DCUO PC version is an afterthought.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on September 07, 2010, 06:49:03 PM
So, basically the reason we are confused is because you say "Is it obvious?!" and then list a bunch of reasons to stay away from the game like the plague.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on September 07, 2010, 07:15:42 PM
So, basically the reason we are confused is because you say "Is it obvious?!" and then list a bunch of reasons to stay away from the game like the plague.

To date, I definitely think DCUO is a title to be avoided at launch.

Not trying to confuse anyone, just watching a title I think will be a trainwreck. But then maybe everyone else is in a supa-sekret beta and DCUO is actually the best game evah.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Margalis on September 08, 2010, 01:13:15 AM
As I said earlier, this has a shot at being the worst MMO of all time from what I've seen.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Shatter on September 08, 2010, 05:19:20 AM
Any bets on what they will jam into their CE?  Supercape?  Ring?  Jar of lube?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Sir T on September 08, 2010, 05:58:53 AM
A really rad mask that mysteriously removes your eyes.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on September 08, 2010, 06:39:11 AM
A blindfold sounds like a brilliant idea!


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on September 09, 2010, 09:37:57 AM
Chris Cao releases a cool story bro video: "Jim Lee and I and Jens just played DCUO and it was awesome! Here, let me tell you about it!". (http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=159248597418593)

Jens Andersen pops up on Facebook to say that console games usually don't have public betas and they work out fine.

Quote
Word Will, we agree. But also keep in mind we are an action console game and an MMO mixed together. So, we want as much beta testing as possible but we also take the best practices of console games which usually don;t run beta testing what so ever, they use internal testers. And those game's turn out just fine. :)

Quote
Basically what I am trying to say is that a quality game is a quality game whether or not it has 1 year of beta or 1 month. The foundation has to be there for beta testing to make a difference. Ours is there, I see it everyday. Beta testing is always helpful but only as helpful as the testers in it. If people are simply looking to play the game for free before it launches then a year long beta test won;t be much better than 1 month beta test.

(Post I'm pulling this from (http://www.dcuosource.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=164269#p164269)).

There's also a few comments in there that the internal SOE testers test "avidly" on PCs and things work fine in SOE offices spread out over the US.

 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: HaemishM on September 09, 2010, 09:44:15 AM
 :argh:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on September 09, 2010, 05:05:45 PM

That's some pretty concentrated stupid there. Badly restating the old forum chestnut of "most beta players are just there to play the game" without realizing that watching how they play the game, what they complain about and how fast they consume content (or avoid it) is valuable insight even if they don't file that many explicit reports. Also that internal testers have a lot of pressure against saying the game is shit... especially if it is.

I hope this fails because I've not seen people both deserve it and invite it to this extent for quite a while.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Modern Angel on September 09, 2010, 05:09:42 PM
Oh this one's going to be fun when it launches.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Margalis on September 09, 2010, 05:12:42 PM
It's increasingly common for multiplayer-centric games to include betas, including Reach and the new MOH.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on September 09, 2010, 05:18:06 PM
It's increasingly common for multiplayer-centric games to include betas, including Reach and the new MOH.

I remember Bad Company 2 beta, and I think that game benefited a lot from the feedback they got, even though a lot of the changes actually game in the first big patch after launch anyway.

This whole "oh yeah, we got this, don't even worry about it" is, I have to imagine, just to get people to buy the box.  Remember, this isn't going to have a monthly fee, so if they manage to move lots of boxes, they're in decent shape.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Shatter on September 09, 2010, 08:06:07 PM
Chris Cao releases a cool story bro video: "Jim Lee and I and Jens just played DCUO and it was awesome! Here, let me tell you about it!". (http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=159248597418593)

Jens Andersen pops up on Facebook to say that console games usually don't have public betas and they work out fine.

Quote
Word Will, we agree. But also keep in mind we are an action console game and an MMO mixed together. So, we want as much beta testing as possible but we also take the best practices of console games which usually don;t run beta testing what so ever, they use internal testers. And those game's turn out just fine. :)

Quote
Basically what I am trying to say is that a quality game is a quality game whether or not it has 1 year of beta or 1 month. The foundation has to be there for beta testing to make a difference. Ours is there, I see it everyday. Beta testing is always helpful but only as helpful as the testers in it. If people are simply looking to play the game for free before it launches then a year long beta test won;t be much better than 1 month beta test.

(Post I'm pulling this from (http://www.dcuosource.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=164269#p164269)).

There's also a few comments in there that the internal SOE testers test "avidly" on PCs and things work fine in SOE offices spread out over the US.

 :oh_i_see:

What a dumbass


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Goreschach on September 10, 2010, 06:46:47 AM
Stand by for Truly Epic Lulz.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Sir T on September 10, 2010, 07:39:20 AM
Will this be an Infinite or a Final Crisis?  :grin:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Slyfeind on September 10, 2010, 10:52:16 AM
So there IS a secret build that fixes everything. WHEW.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on September 24, 2010, 02:42:58 AM
Rumours are that DCUO has sent out its initial beta invites. If you've registered for the PC, check your inbox.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnsGub on September 24, 2010, 08:10:04 AM
Jens Andersen
Quote
Beta testing is always helpful but only as helpful as the testers in it.

Classic blame the testers line.

What feedback one chooses to act on and the execution of the change is where success or failure is going to be had.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Pendan on September 24, 2010, 09:17:29 AM
Jens Andersen pops up on Facebook to say that console games usually don't have public betas and they work out fine.

Quote
Word Will, we agree. But also keep in mind we are an action console game and an MMO mixed together. So, we want as much beta testing as possible but we also take the best practices of console games which usually don;t run beta testing what so ever, they use internal testers. And those game's turn out just fine. :)

Quote
Basically what I am trying to say is that a quality game is a quality game whether or not it has 1 year of beta or 1 month. The foundation has to be there for beta testing to make a difference. Ours is there, I see it everyday. Beta testing is always helpful but only as helpful as the testers in it. If people are simply looking to play the game for free before it launches then a year long beta test won;t be much better than 1 month beta test.

(Post I'm pulling this from (http://www.dcuosource.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=164269#p164269)).

There's also a few comments in there that the internal SOE testers test "avidly" on PCs and things work fine in SOE offices spread out over the US.
This level of stupidity is hard to believe. I could maybe understand it from a company putting out their first MMO but this is the same company that insisted for months that the EQ Shaman ability worked fine because their own internal testers confirmed it. Hundreds of complaints later they finally figured out their internal testing methods did not work and they really did have a bug when not auto leveled.

Besides the obvious thousands of different PC hardware and software differences from real users as opposed to a console it also very hard to test 1000s of different connection speeds at the same time. I bet things run really well when your internal testers have less than 10ms ping times to the server.

Lastly I would like to point out how well EQ2 did against WoW with a tenth of the beta period time. You are supposed to learn from the past.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Sky on September 24, 2010, 10:10:06 AM
I can't count how many times I've seen devs say that external testing has uncovered issues nobody noticed in internal tests. I hope the NDA is enforced through launch, that would be the cherry on the trainwreck pie.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Velorath on October 04, 2010, 11:18:06 AM
DCUO has officially been delayed until "early 2011" (http://pc.ign.com/articles/112/1124708p1.html)


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: HaemishM on October 04, 2010, 11:20:50 AM
Guess that limited beta thing was good for something after all. "OH SHIT, NOTHING FUCKING WORKS!"


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Hutch on October 04, 2010, 12:51:32 PM
Gamasutra article, same topic (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/30770/SOE_Delays_DC_Universe_Online_Until_Early_2011.php)

Quote
SOE president John Smedley said that the developer is taking the extra development time "to address community feedback in a meaningful way."

I'm glad. They could have been stubborn and pushed it live in November.

We'll see if the extra development time actually makes the game better.



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Shatter on October 04, 2010, 07:59:55 PM
The number of 2011 titles is getting excessive   :popcorn:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on October 04, 2010, 08:09:18 PM
I'm just shocked at the delay.

The devs look a bit silly now, given that they've been repeating the "DCUO will be out on November 2" for a bit now and mentioning how "high quality" the title is.

EDIT: Beta is starting in November for all those who preorder DCUO. And live in North America.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Shatter on October 05, 2010, 07:10:07 AM
I'm just shocked at the delay.

The devs look a bit silly now, given that they've been repeating the "DCUO will be out on November 2" for a bit now and mentioning how "high quality" the title is.

EDIT: Beta is starting in November for all those who preorder DCUO. And live in North America.

We knew this would happen when all of 1 month ago they mentioned they were still working on abilities.  Although Im a little disappointed by the move, I was hoping to watch this go down in flames from their way-too-early launch, guess I have to wait until 2011 for that enjoyment. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on October 05, 2010, 09:33:18 PM
To help sate the masses over the delay, DCUO has released some beta combat footage. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEA24bes2gg&feature=player_embedded)

Warning: do not watch if you think you may be epileptic.



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Furiously on October 06, 2010, 11:15:59 AM
The more I watch and hear about this game the less interested I am.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on October 08, 2010, 01:41:01 AM
Beta key registration page up - all you need to do is send a scanned copy of your pre-order receipt by November 15 and you are guaranteed to get in. (http://www.dcuniverseonline.com/betakey/)

I do love a pay-for beta. I'm also tempted to sign up, just so I can see with my own eyes.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Shatter on October 08, 2010, 05:51:32 AM
F this game...paid beta = fail.  This is clearly becoming a quick money grab MMO and will likely be similar to CO and STO.  I would have a different opinion if the game actually looked good


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Stabs on October 08, 2010, 07:02:53 AM
It may be a good looking game and that was just a horrible horrible demo video.

There's too much to look at. By showing a street with dozens of superheroes you're not really showing us a superhero. It looks like they're commuting or something. If you think of the great panels from Batman and Superman often there will be just one or two people. Superman flying through the sky; Batman cradling Robin's broken body - iconic. To show something you have to not hide it amidst a hundred comparable distractions. Compare and contrast the This Secret World video where a woman goes to the fridge to drink milk and then explodes into combat against a cthulhoid monster. The eye knows what to look at in that video.

Another thought is it looks incredibly like the start of Champions Online. It could practically be the same street corner.

And lastly:
Quote
EDIT: Beta is starting in November for all those who preorder DCUO. And live in North America.

Not that I was about to pre-order but if I had been then I would be thinking fuck SOE. When will game developers realise that being treated as second class customers (but generally charged more with that lovely 1:1 $:Euro exchange rate) really pisses Europeans off. It's rude. I'm sure people in other parts of the world feel the same.

While we realise that there may be genuinely good reasons (eg translating the game into French and German) often it just seems parochial. Do people at SOE realise that developers in China and Korea are much more understanding and considerate of Europeans than they are despite the similarities of our cultures?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: statisticalfool on October 08, 2010, 11:59:25 AM
To help sate the masses over the delay, DCUO has released some beta combat footage. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEA24bes2gg&feature=player_embedded)

Warning: do not watch if you think you may be epileptic.



Wow. That looks terrible, jerky, repetitive. Are they using like two frames of animation per attack?

Part of it may be the clusterfuck nature of it, but it looks like a lot of standing and trading blows with an occasional small knockback thrown in for kicks. Bravo.



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on October 09, 2010, 10:51:14 AM
Estimates that DCUO's journey from 1 to maxlevel 30 will take 60 - 70 hours. (http://au.ps3.ign.com/articles/112/1126847p1.html) It's going to have to be incredibly fun to hold onto players past the first 30 days.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on October 09, 2010, 11:12:24 AM
Estimates that DCUO's journey from 1 to maxlevel 30 will take 60 - 70 hours. (http://au.ps3.ign.com/articles/112/1126847p1.html) It's going to have to be incredibly fun to hold onto players past the first 30 days.

I remember people saying I should wait for this instead of buying Champions, and now who has the last laugh!.... erm...I guess the people that just stuck with CoX


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on October 09, 2010, 03:46:10 PM
Muahahahahahaha!


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ezrast on October 10, 2010, 09:08:58 AM
Beta key registration page up - all you need to do is send a scanned copy of your pre-order receipt by November 15 and you are guaranteed to get in. (http://www.dcuniverseonline.com/betakey/)

I do love a pay-for beta. I'm also tempted to sign up, just so I can see with my own eyes.
Time to get my photoshop on.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Shatter on October 10, 2010, 11:43:10 AM
Beta key registration page up - all you need to do is send a scanned copy of your pre-order receipt by November 15 and you are guaranteed to get in. (http://www.dcuniverseonline.com/betakey/)

I do love a pay-for beta. I'm also tempted to sign up, just so I can see with my own eyes.
Time to get my photoshop on.

So why not preorder online, print your recepit, cancel the order and mail the sucker in?  Take what..5 minutes?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Margalis on October 10, 2010, 03:20:17 PM
Is 60-70 hours a lot or a little?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on October 10, 2010, 03:30:21 PM
Is 60-70 hours a lot or a little?

A little.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ezrast on October 10, 2010, 04:16:16 PM
Beta key registration page up - all you need to do is send a scanned copy of your pre-order receipt by November 15 and you are guaranteed to get in. (http://www.dcuniverseonline.com/betakey/)

I do love a pay-for beta. I'm also tempted to sign up, just so I can see with my own eyes.
Time to get my photoshop on.

So why not preorder online, print your recepit, cancel the order and mail the sucker in?  Take what..5 minutes?
Because playing the system is probably more fun than playing DCUO.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on October 10, 2010, 08:37:21 PM
Is 60-70 hours a lot or a little?

The way DCUO has been explained is that there are lots of little story arcs (like CoH/V) that lead up to big boss fights (like CoH/V's later levels) with existing DC characters. This makes me wonder about things like content overlap (heroes and villains will be separate, of course, but how much overlap will there be between a character with Batman as their mentor and one with Superman as their mentor?). Plus there are public quests (called alerts, if I read them right) and PvP / PvE blends.

Plus I always find that devs overstate how long it will take to get through PvE content. That 60 - 70 hours is based off a xp-per-hour calculation that may get blown out of the water once players get hold of the game. And then there is the subscription element, where SOE will want players to keep paying to play, so at the end of that 60 - 70 hours there really needs to be some excellent end game systems (which thus far appear to be raiding and PvP).

On PvP, one of the reports made by a dev was that they found in mass tests that CC powers could make it impossible to capture certain flags - the controlling team could lock down incoming targets, pick them up and throw them away (using the physics system) so that they couldn't get access to a location. It became a battle around who could activate CC the fastest. This is going to be a key challenge of DCUO, because since you can use CC and then act on that CC object, it means players can not only get locked down, they can also get thrown away. That might not be much fun after the 25th time.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: statisticalfool on October 11, 2010, 08:32:58 AM
On PvP, one of the reports made by a dev was that they found in mass tests that CC powers could make it impossible to capture certain flags - the controlling team could lock down incoming targets, pick them up and throw them away (using the physics system) so that they couldn't get access to a location. It became a battle around who could activate CC the fastest. This is going to be a key challenge of DCUO, because since you can use CC and then act on that CC object, it means players can not only get locked down, they can also get thrown away. That might not be much fun after the 25th time.

Balancing CC is hard! I'm glad they're figuring this out now.

It just seems like if you want satisfying superheroic combat (rather than DIKU + spandex re-skin), you've got to have attacks which actually feel like they have impact. Positioning. Air combat. Knocking people into buildings. There's no indication they can do this competently.

I guess maybe the way to put it is like so: is there anything, anything at all even a tiny bit interesting about this game if you take out the fact you get to meet Batman?



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Sir T on October 11, 2010, 08:58:30 AM
One of the problems is that, in comics, if someone gets blasted into a building, you generally have the guy getting up, dusting himself off and then charging the other guy. While the other guy just stands there and lets him. Because in a comic, that's dramatic, and lets the fight go on in a static area, and it fills space. It helps the story. It also helps that Supers are not sued for masses of property damage, but I digress.

In a PVP environment if someone gets blasted away the instigator wont just stand there. But if a game about Comics people are going to expect the dramatic superpower action of people getting knocked around, as that's what they see in comic books. Unfortunately once you take supers out of the controlled dramatic environment of the comic genre, of course you are going to have that kind of break with comic reality. Unless you have people bouncing off buildings right back into peoples faces, and you know how that would be received.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on October 11, 2010, 09:07:26 AM
Knockback is arguably the most comic book of effects - sending the opponent flying.

Ironically, it is the thing that is hated most in CoH/V, because it moves targets outside of melee range. It's a perfect clash between genre and gameplay.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on October 11, 2010, 10:12:26 AM
Knockback is arguably the most comic book of effects - sending the opponent flying.

Ironically, it is the thing that is hated most in CoH/V, because it moves targets outside of melee range. It's a perfect clash between genre and gameplay.

The funny thing, its the kind of iconic thing that happens in 1v1 fights all the time, but the gameplay problems happen when you can't knockback for fear of pulling more guys.  And then, all the 1v1 fight boss types tend to be immune..awesome!


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on October 11, 2010, 11:00:59 AM
Well, comics don't generally have hordes of minions standing around waiting to get slaughtered.  They're either all rushing a target (and thus weak enough to defeat en mass), or just a handful of guys where you can have a dramatic back and forth.  DIKU just doesn't lend itself well to dramatic combat.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: statisticalfool on October 11, 2010, 11:23:26 AM
I think it's right to think that slapping knockback ontop of DIKU is not likely to lead in fun directions. And obviously, design is tough, etc, etc.

But I don't think that if you start from the design of "there's going to be knockback and CC and people flying everywhere: how do we make this fun?", it's so implausible. Screw diminishing returns: CCing somebody builds up a 'rage' meter. Rage increases speed and strength. Fill it up and the person becomes immune to CC for a short while (which has a strong thematic feel). Give melee characters lenient range and lots of ways to close.  Make a superhero game where travel powers aren't just varying forms of horses.






Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on October 11, 2010, 12:42:03 PM
It's not impossible.  Vindictus is quite fun and would lend itself to more super hero-ish combat if ramped up.  But combat in it is more along the lines of a fighting game than an MMO.  Until we move away from MMO == buttonmash 1-10 + shift1-10 + alt1-10 + ctrl1-10, things will remain more or less the same.

Even GW2 which I think will be somewhat revolutionary in this regard may have a ways to go.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: taolurker on October 12, 2010, 03:27:13 PM
Character Creation revealed (http://www.newsarama.com/common/media/video/player.php?videoRef=NA_101012_dcu-online)


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Cadaverine on October 12, 2010, 03:51:57 PM
I don't know if revealed is quite the word I'd use. 


Which is a bummer, cause the idea of being BFF's with the Joker, and getting to hit on Harley Quinn all the time has a certain bent appeal.  Unfortunately, from what I've seen so far, I don't think I could stomach the game long enough to do so.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: sam, an eggplant on October 26, 2010, 01:45:45 PM
I just got into the closed beta without a preorder, so they must be pretty hard up for apps. I can't find an NDA anywhere but I assume there is one even though it's effectively an open beta with that preorder deal, so I'll just leave it at that.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Furiously on October 28, 2010, 12:37:04 PM
I got the email too.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on October 28, 2010, 12:54:42 PM
Character Creation revealed (http://www.newsarama.com/common/media/video/player.php?videoRef=NA_101012_dcu-online)

I like how they say "... or will you take inspiration from an existing DC hero?"  The sheer number of unoriginal copycat heros will be depressing. 

I may still give this game a try.  If it gives me two weeks of something to do, I'm fine with the box cost.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on October 29, 2010, 02:50:14 AM
I remain unemailed with a DCUO beta invite. Possibly because I've been making fun of them, more likely because they aren't interested in non-NA players.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Chinchilla on October 29, 2010, 04:02:39 AM
I got mine.  Installing game now.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Shatter on October 29, 2010, 04:48:47 AM
I was going to register for the beta a while back but then decided my time was better spent picking out my belly button lint.  I could of made the wrong decision but I have doubts


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on October 29, 2010, 07:12:35 AM
If anyone gets a code they don't want, please PM with it. I promise to not get you banned.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: sam, an eggplant on October 29, 2010, 09:40:07 AM
There is no code, they're finally learning to just flag accounts to avoid exactly that sort of thing.

I can get you in "bloodline champions" though! No? OK.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on October 29, 2010, 10:03:59 PM
There is no code, they're finally learning to just flag accounts to avoid exactly that sort of thing.

I can get you in "bloodline champions" though! No? OK.

I've got my own code for that, thanks.  :grin:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on November 08, 2010, 06:06:36 AM
Not linking to it, but YouTube has a remarkable number of closed beta videos with the responsible characters being fully identified. And these videos have been up for a while. Either SOE is remarkably disorganised in getting YouTube to take them down or they are so confident that the videos look good they are leaving them up.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kovacs on November 22, 2010, 03:51:58 PM
Looks like more Beta invites went out.  Oddly, makes me think Diablo meets EQ2.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on November 22, 2010, 05:26:11 PM
I'm pretty sure you would have had to sign an NDA to start any beta process, so probably shouldn't comment on what you think the game is like.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: NiX on November 22, 2010, 07:35:13 PM
Yeah, that's borderline.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on November 30, 2010, 06:07:35 AM
So, SOE "guaranteed" that if people preordered DCUO by November 15, they'd get beta access by November 30. Right now there are a lot of players asking SOE where their beta key is - a fact not helped by SOE's submission process that didn't send out an email confirmation when people uploaded their preorder receipt.

However, I tip my hat to SOE's treatment of PS3 players. Now, there is still a chance that the PS3 beta will start today, but as of time of writing, the PS3 beta has not started and SOE's response appears to be that giving PS3 preorder players a PC beta key - if they file a support ticket in many cases - is appropriate.

(Allegedly the same key will unlock both the PC and PS3 DCUO beta, but since the PS3 beta hasn't started yet, we'll see. You'd probably need your SOE and PS3-relevant accounts linked in some way for that to work, but I don't pretend to know how those account systems might already be linked.)

I'm curious how SOE can next sabotage the launch of DCUO, but I have faith.

EDIT: Yeah, no PS3 beta starting (but it is "soon") and SOE posted on DCUO's Facebook page that PS3 users are getting a PC beta key in the meantime (http://www.facebook.com/notes/dc-universetm-online-the-official-game-page/information-regarding-the-ps3-beta/10150340012340717). SOE's general attitude appears to have been, "We always meant you'd get into PC beta because console MMOs are hard".

Much wailing and gnashing of teeth from the PS3 preorder crowd.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on December 06, 2010, 04:47:40 PM
NDA lifted for DCUO. (http://www.facebook.com/notes/dc-universetm-online-the-official-game-page/thank-you/10150345249240717)

Heh, the overwhelming positivity of some posters must have seen SOE think they can drop the NDA to global acclaim. Either that or the amount of leaks just doesn't make it worthwhile having it up.

So...

Putting aside the unpolished / unfinished parts (e.g. voiceovers not professionally completed, a chat system that makes WAR's launch chat look sophisticated by comparison, no icons on things sent to you by mail, teaming system that is pretty much non-existent, etc) DCUO's core problem is content. There is too little of it. Less than ChampO at launch in my estimation.

I'm still under a level cap of 20 (max level 30) but the truth is that getting any character to level up will see them do missions from all 3 mentors on their side. Each mentor (i.e. Batman, Lex Luthor, etc) has some unique missions, but you'll automatically find the other missions in your journal when you hit the right level. Street grinding is basically worthless for XP, so you'll do those missions, which basically makes replayability with a character on the same side an exercise in repetition.

On top of that, heroes and villain characters also end up sharing opponents, so that both Batman and the Joker (I think) send you up against Bane.

SOE's endgame for DCUO is raids, PvP and collecting epic armour. This is despite implementing a PvP system that seems destined for trouble: you have heroes and villains sent to the same in-game areas to complete similar (sometimes opposing) tasks, such as defend medics vs destroy ambulances. Now, you don't have to flag for PvP, but hitting a PC on an opposing side currently flags you for PvP. So, if you happen to execute an AOE with an opposing PC in range, it can be blood in the water.

Also, I haven't really done any PvP, but I believe that stunlock is completely possible. You can hammer on the shift key to break out, but you'll probably be dead by then.

The weapon / power system works better for some combos than others, but you are currently limited to 6 powers per role - PS3 restriction that is grinding on a lot of PC players. Not all powers are equal, not by a long shot and notes on how they are restricted / what they do (e.g. only one flying drone pet active at a time, despite there being 3 or more that you can get) aren't detailed enough.

If DCUO launches as F2P, I think it will do very well. It is short and fun enough in bursts. It isn't worth $15 a month, especially since you will complete that trip to lvl 30 in probably 2 weeks and left with PvP / raid options to do over and over and over again.

UPDATE: Should add that their is unintended hilarity with the in-game currency system, where you take down the Scarecrow and receive $27 as a mission reward.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on December 06, 2010, 05:41:04 PM
In other news, Champions Online going free to play early next year. :why_so_serious:

Seriously though, I think they had a real chance here to pick up on an aging genre (Super hero MMOs) because CoX is on its last legs from what I've heard and Cryptic really never had the resources to apparently do what they needed to with CO, even though their game is better than it was at launch by a fairly wide margin.

Missed opportunity by the sound of it.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Goreschach on December 06, 2010, 05:44:17 PM
It's a real shame, too. The Super Hero setting is basically perfect for your typical MMO. Who knows how long it'll be before we get a real successor to COH.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Furiously on December 06, 2010, 08:03:02 PM
I played for like a week. They did a great job on the staff combat animations, but guns seemed so much more powerful.  Didn't like how missions were soloable then the bosses were not.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Ragnoros on December 06, 2010, 09:16:19 PM
It's a Diku MMO. I played it for a day, got bored, and never touched it again. Nothing broken about it, but nothing special either, no hook.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: raydeen on December 09, 2010, 03:22:46 AM
No NDA? Good. I actually have liked what I've played so far. It's everything CO should have been IMO. My only real gripes so far are that the costume selection isn't as big yet as COH or CO (but I'm assuming that will change) and the console-y-ness of the controls. I might have to experiment with a game controller to see if I like it better. Other than that, it's still in beta so I'm hoping it's not the finished product I'm playing and the combat mechanic is great. You can hard target enemies but I like actually being able to aim and shoot, stomp, etc. The game feels good to me. If I had to go out on a limb, I'd say this is to COH what WoW was to EQ. And the graphics are still pretty good even turned way down. I was afraid at first that my system would evaporate due to the CPU and GPU overheating but I was able to tone things down and still have a good play experience. Two thumbs up SOE. You have potential fun here, don't mess it up!


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Koyasha on December 09, 2010, 04:19:29 AM
The control mechanics are one of my biggest gripes with it right off the bat.  I did not like the way it controlled either via keyboard and mouse or by controller.  I don't really have any direct comments on how it could be better, and admittedly it's pretty remappable, but it's the targeting system and some of the movement that I found rather difficult to get used to.

The extreme lack of costume and appearance choices was the other major problem with it.  A lot of costume pieces appear to be earned in-game, which isn't really something I'm a fan of in this particular setting of games.  I don't mind having to earn cooler looking armor in some settings, but the superhero setting seems like I should start with exactly the costume I want right off the bat.  Beyond that is the fact that even at release, CoH had more options for both costumes and physical attributes, and I'm left incredibly underwhelmed by the costume creator.

Other than those two problems, though, I didn't really see any major issues.  A bunch of unfinished stuff like UI elements and quest dialogues and that kind of thing, but it's not going to be released for a couple months, so those can be fixed.  Unfortunately, I also didn't really see anything that really caught my attention, either.  Admittedly I didn't even try out the PVP, which might be interesting although I doubt it, but other than that, I didn't see any indication of anything that would really catch my interest.  It is probably worth checking out for anyone who thinks that this sort of game might catch their interest, though.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Shatter on December 09, 2010, 05:04:59 AM
I didnt hate it but didnt get the hook for it either even though I did really try and spent a good 10 hours or so the first weekend.  I think the best part of what I saw was it ran very smoothly for me and was virtually lag free so its fairly polished that way.  I had no issues with controls for the most part and it didnt take long to get used to them.  The quests were ok and it was fun to interract with objects in the world both as part of quests and outside of quests.  I think for people who enjoy super hero MMO's they will probably like this. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ezrast on December 09, 2010, 10:02:39 AM
It struck me as basically a non-broken version of CO. It has the same action-y setup but fixes all the clunky or broken mechanics like energy building and blocking (respectively). Thing is, a non-broken version of CO still isn't very fun to me. I got more enjoyment out of playing with the superspeed physics and making cars swerve and blow up than I did from any of the questing or combat. I keep meaning to go back and give it another shot, but I just... haven't.

For the record, lumping CoX, CO, and now DCUO together as "superhero MMOs" doesn't sit right with me - DCUO and CO are very similar to each other, but very different from CoX. Could just be the fanboy in me talking though.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: HaemishM on December 09, 2010, 01:51:20 PM
I would love to give you my impressions of DCUO since I was in the beta. Unfortunately, their shittastic launcher/patcher which was made in the very depths of Satan's colon, NEVER WORKED. I could never fully download the game, their beta forums were less than useless and what CM's they had on the forums were about as helpful as ball cancer.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: sam, an eggplant on December 09, 2010, 02:12:24 PM
I only played for a couple of hours back in October and quickly grew bored. I didn't hate it. I don't have any strong feelings about DCUO at all, actually. I just didn't much feel like playing any more.

Flying around cities and exploring Watchtower was neat, but the quests were pretty basic dikulikes; kill a bunch of bad guys, channel onto a thingamabob on the ground, zone into a little instance killing more mobs, repeat. Questing was all fairly streamlined, but didn't have the polish and extensive scripting seen in WOTLK. It felt like it was one (and now two) generations behind. New MMOs really need to look at the WoW DK newbie experience as a minimum quality level. That was 2 years ago.

Combat felt terrible. I just hit buttons as fast as possible, nothing had any real punch, and action on screen only felt loosely connected to the buttons I pushed. Movement also felt clunky, and while it was two months ago now, I remember hating the mouse controls as well.

If it launches F2P and markedly improved since I last played, focusing particularly on the newbie experience, I suppose it could claw its way to profitability. I don't predict great things at $15/month.

On the bright side, the intro cinematic with all the heroes and villains fighting is awesome. Definitely watch that on Youtube or something.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Modern Angel on December 09, 2010, 03:29:42 PM
I got my invite today! No thanks.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Stormwaltz on December 09, 2010, 03:36:14 PM
I watched someone else play it for about a half hour today, and came away with a headache.

I like how fast it appears to play, but the whole screen was washed with a constantly shifting Matrix-scape of reflective gleams, particle effects, and blink-and-you-miss-it transient combat notifications. I don't know if it gets more comprehensible, but it was shoving so much eyecandy and so many numbers on the screen so quickly, I couldn't understand anything I was seeing beyond "punch the robots."

Or maybe I'm just old.

Other than that, I saw a lot of hitchy and/or missing animations. I'm dubious about the loot system. Unlike CoH which allows you to make your own appearance and dispenses with loot altogether, I saw a mob drop a cloak that changed appearance as well as stats. That seems like a big mistake in a genre where costume is the crux of character identity.

It's a nice looking game. It's just coming off a bit too much for the ADD crowd at first glance.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kovacs on December 09, 2010, 04:43:39 PM
Equiping a lootted item gives the character the option of using that items appearance later.    Some of the appearances, I gather are unavailable at creation as they give Achievements.  You need to equip the item that's normally BOE though in order to acquire the ability to equip that appearance. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on December 10, 2010, 08:56:54 PM
PS3 beta keys have gone out.

Given that DCUO was about a 14GB download and SOE released an 8GB patch the other day, some PSN people are waiting a long time to see the game even ready to play.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: fuser on December 14, 2010, 02:49:25 PM
PS3 beta keys have gone out.

Given that DCUO was about a 14GB download and SOE released an 8GB patch the other day, some PSN people are waiting a long time to see the game even ready to play.

It's out on PSN+ today too for people willing to pay.  117MB tho, wonder if its a streaming install?

Quote
DC Universe Online Beta (free)
Join the DC Universe Online beta and become part of the next legendary game world.
ESRB RP
File size: 117 MB


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on December 14, 2010, 05:10:36 PM
That has to be the installer - some PS3 players have indicated they've had their download running for a day or more before DCUO is installed.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on December 15, 2010, 06:46:29 AM
Three videos on why the open world PvP of DCUO is not going to gain a big audience:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0LYJt6ivLg&feature=feedu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s1wYuqej8k&feature=related (low sound)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AosIHUrp5FU&feature=related

In the first video, the police station is one of the newb safehouses. Yes, it has bouncers that can send a target for 3 blocks (which the villain in the first video uses as a chance to heal back up) but it's still pretty easy for a group to form a 'cage' around the exit.

The second video shows the issue with having heroes and villains contest exactly the same spots for their missions. It sounds great in theory, but when you are a player who is just trying to activate one of the glowies you become a target, let alone fight some mobs. In order to get out of those multiple stuns you have to hammer the shift key.

The third video shows a level 12 hold off a lvl 21, but that's due to the lvl 12 having Nature self-heals which are currently considered the best in-game. Yes, they had some skill to hold off the lvl 21 (who didn't know they had to hammer the shift key to break those stuns) but the self-heals kept them alive.

DCUO has only two adventure zones - Gotham and Metropolis - plus a limited number of Arenas / instanced PvE maps. Stomping the spandex out of newbs (who can only come out of one of three safe houses) is going to be a national pass time. I'm amazed that the game designers didn't think this would be an issue so have taken so few steps to stop it. Or maybe I should just LOLPVP and move on.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Sky on December 15, 2010, 09:21:21 AM
Wow, that's terribad. Also, why is everyone jumping all the time?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Morfiend on December 20, 2010, 02:00:02 PM
Wow, that's terribad. Also, why is everyone jumping all the time?

Do you play MMOs?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on December 20, 2010, 09:03:44 PM
A number of retailers have simultaneously indicated a mid-January release for DCUO. SOE is currently not commenting.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on December 21, 2010, 07:22:11 PM
Confirmed - DCUO to launch January 11. (http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/12/21/soe-developer-addresses-dcuo-launch-concerns/)

Christ, SOE have just buried this - a launch with about 20 days notice, a patch where they just nerfed weapon damage across the board (a way of extending leveling time) and a chat / team system that still needs significant work. Also critical was SOE's communication to PS3 players about why they should be paying a subscription to access DCUO and they haven't done that - PS3 players will start screaming when they try to return DCUO to GameStop and suddenly find they can't. The cynic in me thinks that SOE is stealth launching this title in an effort to collect the preorder money before various players cancel it.

If DCUO launches as a F2P, it has a chance. If it launches at $15 a month, crash and burn.

UPDATE: read through more links (http://au.ps3.ign.com/articles/114/1141254p1.html). Launching at $15 a month with unspecified cash shop and a $199 lifetime sub offer (PC only). Various PS3 players are rejecting the idea of a sub fee outright and SOE's "more content is coming, we promise" isn't cutting it.

I'll stick by my 'crash and burn' statement and wonder how long it will be for Anderson and / or Cao to announce they are leaving DCUO "to spend more time with my family" (or equivalent).


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Shatter on December 22, 2010, 04:32:55 AM
Thanks for that, just reaffirms my reasons for not buying it in the first place.  The fact this game has a monthly sub is nothing short of retarded....its far from worth it.  I guess they are in a hurry to be the first poop MMO of 2011


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: HaemishM on December 22, 2010, 10:09:48 AM
They are fucking INSANE. Jan. 11th is way too soon. I can't even load the goddamn game, and get no help from the forums. And they want to launch?

This is going to be a trainwreck that no one will pay the slightest attention to.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on December 22, 2010, 10:39:25 AM
Seems fitting for a DC game title for some reason.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Sir T on December 22, 2010, 05:22:14 PM
Is Green Lantern coming out around then? They may be trying to piggy back on something like that.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: SnakeCharmer on December 22, 2010, 05:50:22 PM

Quote from: UnSub
Cao

Fuck that guy.  He deserves every bit of shit that gives shoveled onto his fat ass because of this shitty game.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Chinchilla on December 23, 2010, 11:26:25 AM
Is it just me or does this game not having a friend's list so you konw when your buddies are online?

If it does... it sure is well hidden because I can't find it.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on December 23, 2010, 04:24:19 PM
Is Green Lantern coming out around then? They may be trying to piggy back on something like that.

I don't think so.

Common forum logic is that all the GL stuff that DCUO was going to contain is being held back for the GL movie launch, which will probably be the first big expansion.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 03, 2011, 05:58:28 PM
I know I'm the only one here who care about this, but it is going to be a flaming car crash of a title in about a week.

The latest patch - December 29 - added a number of new bugs that can make playing difficult. DCUO's chat system is still bare bones, probably because SOE expects everyone to use VOIP. Launch is still January 11.

If you feel like it, the pre-order PC beta forums (which will become the official forums) are open for public view if you have an SOE account (http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/forums/show.m?forum_id=12&sort=lastmsg&sortDir=desc), I believe.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Sir T on January 03, 2011, 09:50:45 PM
They are probably in full on panic mode in SOE right now.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: bhodi on January 04, 2011, 07:13:10 AM
I love the smell of a failed MMO in the morning.

I get such perverse pleasure watching these things crash and burn. I know it's terrible for the rank and file at SOE, but it really is just seeing bone-headed decisions made coming home to roost. Just desserts and all that. I love it.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Shatter on January 04, 2011, 07:41:25 AM
I love the smell of a failed MMO in the morning.

I get such perverse pleasure watching these things crash and burn. I know it's terrible for the rank and file at SOE, but it really is just seeing bone-headed decisions made coming home to roost. Just desserts and all that. I love it.

I just smell poop


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Raguel on January 04, 2011, 08:17:27 AM
I love the smell of a failed MMO in the morning.

I get such perverse pleasure watching these things crash and burn. I know it's terrible for the rank and file at SOE, but it really is just seeing bone-headed decisions made coming home to roost. Just desserts and all that. I love it.

I just smell poop

Somehow, I agree with both of you  :-P


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 04, 2011, 08:33:14 AM
I just smell poop

It's wearing a cape though.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Shatter on January 04, 2011, 09:08:45 AM
I just smell poop

It's wearing a cape though.

Must be CE poop


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Draegan on January 04, 2011, 01:58:20 PM
I finally installed this game the other day with my dormant beta key.  It wasn't that bad.  My mouse hand was cramped a bit, and I only did the newbie tutorial area.  The game felt like it was fun to play.  The UI for the character creator was terrible though.

It's much better than CHampO.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Riggswolfe on January 04, 2011, 02:05:07 PM
It's much better than CHampO.

I haven't played ChampO but from what I have heard this isn't great praise...


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on January 04, 2011, 05:03:43 PM

It isn't.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 04, 2011, 11:57:30 PM
Not that I'll be playing this anyway, but the 'native' Australian server is the EU one, which with money conversion rates as they are would see it cost $20 to $25 a month to play DCUO. I'd have to order a US edition to be able to pay closer to the $15 a month level.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 07, 2011, 07:17:58 PM
So, it's the end of beta and a lot of people are uninstalling DCUO.

Well, trying to. The uninstaller doesn't work properly.

SOE apologised and ... oh wait, no they didn't. Don't you players understand that a correctly functioning uninstaller is an optional extra? (http://skalenda.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/back-to-play/) Manual uninstalls are just as good, really.

Quote
TSR-AndyD wrote:

I’m sure you all realize that the focus of the development staff is currently going to be bmaking the game as awesome as possible for the retail release. The broken uninstaller is a forgivable and understandable over-sight.

Oh, SOE, I await your launch day patch.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Modern Angel on January 08, 2011, 06:21:00 AM
Oh that's awesome. That's one of the more clueless, jackass thing I've heard a CM say in a really long time.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: HaemishM on January 08, 2011, 10:54:16 AM
So, it's the end of beta and a lot of people are uninstalling DCUO.

Well, trying to. The uninstaller doesn't work properly.

SOE apologised and ... oh wait, no they didn't. Don't you players understand that a correctly functioning uninstaller is an optional extra? (http://skalenda.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/back-to-play/) Manual uninstalls are just as good, really.

Oh that's lovely. When you get a beta tester saying that at least Final Fantasy XIV has gotten better and he'd rather play that when talking about your shitty product that's going to be released in 4 days, you are SO FUCKED. I'm glad to see the fuckups I had just trying unsuccessfully to get the goddamn game installed extended to the uninstall process as well. Good job, fuckheads.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Tannhauser on January 10, 2011, 04:10:04 AM
I won't be buying this at release, but I have popcorn and will enjoy reading the comments from those who do.

Oh SOE, we thought you had turned a corner and now you are shoving another crappy MMO out.
All is right with the world.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 10, 2011, 07:52:53 AM
DCUO is going to be getting a launch day patch that fixes a number of bugs with powers. This patch will be untested by players since DCUO was taken out of public beta 5 days before launch.

Also, as best I can see, SOE hasn't released any server list information about DCUO. Guess they are waiting to surprise people at launch.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: shiznitz on January 10, 2011, 09:57:15 AM
Reading this thread suggests there will be no surprises.  We have seen this movie too many times.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 10, 2011, 05:15:20 PM
As negative as I sound about the game, it is fun in short bursts. You can get to max level is about 30 hours and it is pretty enough. But it is very shallow and lacks some basic PC functionality at this point - I had WAR flashbacks about the chat system and you only get 6 powers per loadout, for instance. (I don't want 50 powers to choose from, but 6 is too limited given the number of powers you can get and choose from.)

What I truly believe will cripple DCUO is how they are treating the PS3 launch. With a sub fee in place, there needed to be a charm offensive about what you get for that sub fee, the advantages of paying that $15 a month, what is about to be released that you'll want to sub for, etc. Instead, the line from SOE appears to be "PC players got used to paying a sub, so PS3 players will as well". PS3 players are a very different group to the PC MMO players who started getting into the genre 10 - 20 years ago.

If DCUO launched F2P with paid microtrans / DLC, I think it would be a massive success. At $15 a month for content that lasts a week? I can't see it happening.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on January 10, 2011, 06:16:05 PM
Assuming the PC crowd will pay a sub is wrong as well, since a lot of the kids nowadays are growing up with the f2p market.  I'm surprised SOE is continuing with the idea anyways, since they were the ones to put out Free Realms.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Triforcer on January 10, 2011, 06:48:40 PM
Like I stupidly did with STO, I bought this and will be playing tomorrow.  I'm a sucker for MMO launches.  If I get a month out of it, I'll be happy.  If it is shallow as people are saying, though, I will be rather displeased with a week of content.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Furiously on January 10, 2011, 08:11:57 PM
I predict a free-trial in 30 days.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: koro on January 11, 2011, 07:40:00 AM
Like I stupidly did with STO, I bought this and will be playing tomorrow.  I'm a sucker for MMO launches.  If I get a month out of it, I'll be happy.  If it is shallow as people are saying, though, I will be rather displeased with a week of content.
UnSub's "week of content" is not an exaggeration. My girlfriend (who is a sucker for both MMO betas and DC Comics in general) borrowed an old FFXI guildmate's beta account a month or so ago. She was level capped in about ten days of playing 2-3 hours a night, skipping a few nights. The villain content adds maybe another four or five days of play on to that.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lucas on January 11, 2011, 08:23:09 AM
*popcorn munchin' pic*
 
:awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Khaldun on January 11, 2011, 08:40:31 AM
It's really weird in a way. The genre as a whole works really well as a MMO foundation, even a DiKU one. DC's intellectual property is an attractive hook to boot. And yet, here we go again: subminimal functionality in some of the basics, easily broken game mechanics that very quickly spoil the pleasure of the game for most players, and such a small amount of content that most players will become bored within a few weeks.

At this point, whether I was the guy licensing intellectual property or the money suit authorizing the development of an MMO, I'd sit down with a potential development team and ask these questions:

1) Can you come up with a way to generate content rapidly, whether procedural or otherwise?
2) Can you come up with a way to make some kind of PvP work as something fun to do when players don't want to work through PvE content?
3) Can you come up with an endgame that isn't just about shittastic grind that will keep only a few hardcore obsessive catasses amused and subscribing?

If the team doesn't have detailed answers for at least one of those questions that isn't just a variation on "Yes, like that game over there only slightly better or different", I don't license the property or approve the development.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: sam, an eggplant on January 11, 2011, 09:47:23 AM
They did create an awesome intro cinematic, though, got to give them that.

Oh wait that was Blur.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Outlawedprod on January 11, 2011, 03:17:48 PM
They did create an awesome intro cinematic, though, got to give them that.
Oh wait that was Blur.

Are you sure?  Their 50 million must have went somewhere.

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/01/11/dc-universe-online-50-million-gamble-aims-for-audience-that-world-of-warcraft-cant-touch/


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: LK on January 11, 2011, 03:25:00 PM
Quote
It’s the first so-called massively multi-player online game to feature realistic physical simulations.

Yes, that's what will set it apart and attract the masses.

Quote
DC Universe Online also was the only one on the market to play not just on computers but also on a living room console, in this case the PlayStation 3.

:oh_i_see:

Factual inaccuracies aside, they are banking on the market of a third place console to give them that edge? There's just so many problems and comments I can make on that article.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on January 11, 2011, 04:24:48 PM
50 million + 5.5 years -> about a week of shallow content?

There's something wrong with SoE.

It does help explain why it has to be sub-based. They need a lot of revenue coming in before the game dates and fades. I'd expect a F2P game would want a smaller investment and plan on having iterative development (and more fodder for the cash shop) over a longer lifetime. They've effectively priced themselves out of that option in a similar manner to APB.



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 11, 2011, 05:30:45 PM
One of the things that surprises me a lot is that DCUO basically appears dumped in January. Only 21 days notice to launch, and in very early January? I can't see what amounts to a stealth launch being a positive thing for a MMO.

The only advantage I can see is that a quiet launch won't hammer the servers as much, which helps with initial impressions and gives some time for fixes.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: statisticalfool on January 12, 2011, 08:00:24 AM
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/01/11/dc-universe-online-50-million-gamble-aims-for-audience-that-world-of-warcraft-cant-touch/


http://latimesherocomplex.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/dc_scr_plyract_jsa_007.jpg

Do you see that?  Screw World of Warcraft: there's two people there in a deserted environment with SWORDS.

And they're going to autoattack kick each other's asses.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Modern Angel on January 12, 2011, 08:08:12 AM
I saw someone say that armor drops in the game change the appearance of your character. If true that's just...  :uhrr:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Morfiend on January 12, 2011, 08:49:54 AM
I saw someone say that armor drops in the game change the appearance of your character. If true that's just...  :uhrr:

I believe that you have the option to allow the equipped items to effect your appearance or not.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Modern Angel on January 12, 2011, 08:50:21 AM
That's way way better then.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 12, 2011, 10:00:48 AM
My girlfriend (who is a sucker for both MMO betas and DC Comics in general) borrowed an old FFXI guildmate's beta account a month or so ago. She was level capped in about ten days of playing 2-3 hours a night, skipping a few nights. The villain content adds maybe another four or five days of play on to that.

This makes me wonder if they will change the rate of xp gain at release (a la WAR).  I don't know if they even have enough content to get away with that.  Perhaps with it being SoE, you can just grind bad guys for levels. 

CAMP CHECK!


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Sky on January 12, 2011, 11:22:04 AM
Joker camped, could use another dps.



MMO just sucks the soul out of everything.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on January 12, 2011, 12:47:31 PM
Giantbomb has a livestream of DCUO gameplay going on right now, in case you want to see how the trainwreck looks.



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on January 12, 2011, 01:06:38 PM
Giantbomb has a livestream of DCUO gameplay going on right now, in case you want to see how the trainwreck looks.



Doesn't look like a total train wreck, but it doesn't look worth playing either unless you are really in love with DC.  If it was F2P I'd run around Gotham for a few hours.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: kondratti on January 12, 2011, 03:00:42 PM
There is much hate in this thread... knowing nothing about DCUO, I picked it up and it is quite fun to play.  Way more fun than Rift.

It is different than your standard Diku... and I am enjoying the difference. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 12, 2011, 03:05:47 PM
It is different than your standard Diku... and I am enjoying the difference. 

I'll make you a deal.  If you're still feeling this way in 30 days, I'll buy a copy and play it. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Khaldun on January 12, 2011, 05:28:30 PM
It is different than your standard Diku... and I am enjoying the difference. 

I'll make you a deal.  If you're still feeling this way in 30 days, I'll buy a copy and play it. 

Or if he can even explain how it is "different" that doesn't amount to "It has superheroes" or "You don't *exactly* level up".

It would be awesome though if you could loot some shoulderpads, equip them and suddenly get a "You're a 90s DC Superhero!" achievement. Maybe they could even call it, "You're ready for the Bloodlines Annuals!"


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Chinchilla on January 12, 2011, 05:37:49 PM
I saw someone say that armor drops in the game change the appearance of your character. If true that's just...  :uhrr:

I believe that you have the option to allow the equipped items to effect your appearance or not.

Once you equip that armor you then have that armors appearance customization available to you.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 12, 2011, 06:22:36 PM
It is different than your standard Diku... and I am enjoying the difference. 

I'll make you a deal.  If you're still feeling this way in 30 days, I'll buy a copy and play it. 

Or if he can even explain how it is "different" that doesn't amount to "It has superheroes" or "You don't *exactly* level up".

The mouselook and LMB melee, RMB ranged is quite different and you generally need to aim to hit (although you can lock onto a target and use your powers, iirc). If you haven't played superhero MMOs, the travel powers are quite a change.

It is a more dynamic combat system where you gain advantage for moving, dodging and blocking compared to (say) RIFT where hitting and missing are more based on the dice roll.

It's fun for the first few hours / the first character, but starts to bog down when missions are just repeats of 'defeat X of Y in this area' where X goes up 5 / 10 / 15 etc as you level up. You'll work out what is the best combo to take down PvE targets and just repeat that for every combat situation.

DCUO has done well in the first 24 hours, in as so far that they are launching two more PvP servers (one for the PC, one for the PS3). Looks like they've got 14 servers - 7 per platform, split into 4 PvE and (now) 3 PvP rulesets.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: kondratti on January 13, 2011, 06:31:29 AM

I'll make you a deal.  If you're still feeling this way in 30 days, I'll buy a copy and play it. 

I am just happy to buy a game that isnt a shittier WoW.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 13, 2011, 06:42:04 AM
I am just happy to buy a game that isnt a shittier WoW.

My fear is that DCUO is a shittier COH.  I haven't seen/read anything that convinces me otherwise. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on January 13, 2011, 07:27:09 AM
Here's yesterday's GB stream. I missed way too much so I'm gonna watch it again. If I don't I'll be an idiot and buy the game. http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-dc-universe-online/17-3674/

 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: fuser on January 13, 2011, 08:53:03 AM
Here's yesterday's GB stream. I missed way too much so I'm gonna watch it again. If I don't I'll be an idiot and buy the game. http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-dc-universe-online/17-3674/

Bah they took the video offline to re-encode it :(

Justin TV (http://www.justin.tv/fiox1) live play and answering questions from chat.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: kondratti on January 13, 2011, 05:29:20 PM
I am just happy to buy a game that isnt a shittier WoW.

My fear is that DCUO is a shittier COH.  I haven't seen/read anything that convinces me otherwise. 

I last played CoH in around 2005.  Would be pretty hard to be shittier than that.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 13, 2011, 05:39:36 PM
I last played CoH in around 2005.  Would be pretty hard to be shittier than that.

What does the year have to do with anything?  CoH was and is a good game. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: kondratti on January 13, 2011, 06:33:02 PM
What does the year have to do with anything?  CoH was and is a good game. 

I beg to differ, good sir.  It was, in my opinion, a pretty awful game back then.  It may, indeed, have improved by now, though.

But these are all opinions, which is my point, I guess.  Much hate in a thread by many who have not played a game...


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: raydeen on January 13, 2011, 07:54:23 PM
I'll go ahead and say that in most respects it is a shittier CoH. Not that CoH was shit (I loved that game for almost 4 years before the shiny wore off). DCUO has the potential to be on par with CoH but it seems like it's all icing and very little cake. Not as many costume or character customization choices, not nearly as immersive gameplay as CoH (IMHO), not nearly as fun as CoH. Now it could just be my own personal view of things. I compare CoH to EQ. I much preferred EQ to EQ2. EQ had horrible graphics by comparison but there was something about the gameplay and world that was more compelling for me. EQ2 seemed like a half-assed try at making a better game simply by making it prettier and in some ways more complex. I prefer CoH to CO and so far DCUO. Worse graphics but funner gameplay. I like DCUO's combat though. That part stands out and makes things feel superhero-ish (throwing cars and junk). Everything else is kinda 'meh'. I was amazed that the hero and villain tutorials were exactly the same. Come on, would it have killed them to come up with two scenarios?

As I'm writing this I think I can conclude at least partly why WoW is so successful. It's a game that isn't groundbreaking but it's polished, fun, and most importantly has a very carefully planned, well thought out, and executed world. Back in the day, both EQ and CoH could claim the same. I felt like I was part of those worlds and wanted to be in them as much as possible. Most MMOs today just don't have that draw. They're just too damn generic, always focusing on the mechanics and not the fun. I know, no real revelations here. Just me musing and trying to sound like I know what the hell I'm talking about.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on January 13, 2011, 07:57:28 PM
It will be very interesting, though in my opinion a fairly obvious result, to see if DCUO can remain actively in development for as long as CoH.

Though CoH will remain a sad case of unrealised potential... but then isn't that the long term narrative of MMO's.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 13, 2011, 09:53:28 PM
So I bought this, and I'm glad to say that there doesn't seem to be a choice for boob size.... :ye_gods:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Grimwell on January 13, 2011, 10:25:05 PM
As I'm writing this I think I can conclude at least partly why WoW is so successful. It's a game that isn't groundbreaking but it's polished, fun, and most importantly has a very carefully planned, well thought out, and executed world.

Holy shit, someone write this down, I think he's on to something!!!!!!
 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: raydeen on January 14, 2011, 03:08:10 AM
As I'm writing this I think I can conclude at least partly why WoW is so successful. It's a game that isn't groundbreaking but it's polished, fun, and most importantly has a very carefully planned, well thought out, and executed world.

Holy shit, someone write this down, I think he's on to something!!!!!!
 :oh_i_see:


Heh, I did say that there was nothing really new there. Just me mentally coming late to the party.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Khaldun on January 14, 2011, 06:43:24 AM
I'll go ahead and say that in most respects it is a shittier CoH. Not that CoH was shit (I loved that game for almost 4 years before the shiny wore off). DCUO has the potential to be on par with CoH but it seems like it's all icing and very little cake. Not as many costume or character customization choices, not nearly as immersive gameplay as CoH (IMHO), not nearly as fun as CoH. Now it could just be my own personal view of things. I compare CoH to EQ. I much preferred EQ to EQ2. EQ had horrible graphics by comparison but there was something about the gameplay and world that was more compelling for me. EQ2 seemed like a half-assed try at making a better game simply by making it prettier and in some ways more complex. I prefer CoH to CO and so far DCUO. Worse graphics but funner gameplay. I like DCUO's combat though. That part stands out and makes things feel superhero-ish (throwing cars and junk). Everything else is kinda 'meh'. I was amazed that the hero and villain tutorials were exactly the same. Come on, would it have killed them to come up with two scenarios?

As I'm writing this I think I can conclude at least partly why WoW is so successful. It's a game that isn't groundbreaking but it's polished, fun, and most importantly has a very carefully planned, well thought out, and executed world. Back in the day, both EQ and CoH could claim the same. I felt like I was part of those worlds and wanted to be in them as much as possible. Most MMOs today just don't have that draw. They're just too damn generic, always focusing on the mechanics and not the fun. I know, no real revelations here. Just me musing and trying to sound like I know what the hell I'm talking about.

Newer MMOs are games, not worlds: that's one part of what they've drawn from WoW (get the rails on the rollercoaster laid down correctly). Even the limited "world" feeling of WoW they can't match because it takes creating more content than they can afford or understand how to make. There's a few exceptions: LOTRO keeps plugging away at making content, for example. But the more common low road to take now is the Champions/Star Trek Online road: fast development cycle, low costs, massive understaffing of live management, make your profit from box sales to people who love the genre or the intellectual property, not from builiding long-time subs. That approach is never going to lead to anything that feels remotely like a world.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Gunzwei on January 14, 2011, 07:26:10 AM
I got a villain to 30 earlier today.

At 30 a good chunk of content unlocks (2 raids, 4 team instances, 4 advanced team instances, and a bunch of daily/solo stuff/gear tiers). Me and two other 30's ran one of the unlocked team instances, Arkham Asylum, and were pretty much blown away at how well done that place was. It was easily one of the best layedout zones I've seen in an MMO in recent memory (3 wings, 3 bosses, and each wing is themed around its boss).  We only managed to get up to Poison Ivy before she proceeded to roll us several times over due to a mechanic we really needed a 4th person to handle.

Team PVE mechanics were a lot tighter in comparison to the Leveling team-content. Mobs will use avoidable AoE, need to be tanked, and cc'd. Definitely a big step up from the 1-29 content. Ivy herself was considerably more involved than any other boss I've seen (multiple phases, lots of adds, lots of environmental abilities).

Lastly leveling in general seems to be replaced with a more gear/costume centric progression with tiered gear. All in all was a pleasant surprise considering I wasn't expecting much.





Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nija on January 14, 2011, 07:32:39 AM
A friend of mine bought this on PS3.

His fiance created a bright pink cartoon rendition of herself and has been playing nonstop. Some of her friends are even into it.

They are talking about how bad-ass it is on Facebook.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: AcidCat on January 14, 2011, 07:37:13 AM
My fear is that DCUO is a shittier COH.

This was my impression from beta. Granted I didn't get a character beyond level 10. But there was nothing at all about the game that made me want to continue.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on January 14, 2011, 08:01:36 AM
A friend of mine bought this on PS3.

His fiance created a bright pink cartoon rendition of herself and has been playing nonstop. Some of her friends are even into it.

They are talking about how bad-ass it is on Facebook.

If the game captures this audience, its a coup of epic proportions.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: raydeen on January 14, 2011, 08:17:46 AM
A friend of mine bought this on PS3.

His fiance created a bright pink cartoon rendition of herself and has been playing nonstop. Some of her friends are even into it.

They are talking about how bad-ass it is on Facebook.

If the game captures this audience, its a coup of epic proportions.

Maybe this will be the next big breakthrough and we don't see it because it's not our first dance with an MMO. These people probably have no pre-conceived expectations of what the game should or shouldn't be.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Paelos on January 14, 2011, 08:28:40 AM
I see commercials for this on TV and think, man, I would have put that money into the game.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 14, 2011, 08:29:19 AM
I see commercials for this on TV and think, man, I would have put that money into the game.

I think that about WoW too.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Soln on January 14, 2011, 10:54:45 AM
anyone here playing this on a PS3?  Im DC-curious.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on January 14, 2011, 02:17:43 PM
Fuck, I can't believe I'm seriously considering buying this game. But I am.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 14, 2011, 02:27:38 PM
Fuck, I can't believe I'm seriously considering buying this game. But I am.

I'm starting to think that this game may be fun in brief sessions with a set group. 

Oh wait, that's nearly every MMO. 


(Still, I may give it a try just for a week of diversion)


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Typhon on January 14, 2011, 02:30:35 PM
I'm getting the same feeling - if I can limit how much I play per week, I could probably like this game.

I feel fortunate in that I'm already playing too many other things to even consider this.  It will probably be 6 months before I'm bored of everything else, and I will think about playing on a PS3 - which will force me to limit my playtime.  Ideally in 6 months time this game will be a bit more fleshed out.  Wins all around for me!   :drill:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 14, 2011, 02:31:53 PM
I was told that the PS3 and PC servers are separate... which may be the best news that I've heard about the game.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Rendakor on January 14, 2011, 03:25:37 PM
I was told that the PS3 and PC servers are separate... which may be the best news that I've heard about the game.
Is that confirmed? I have 0 interest in this title, and was only reading the thread to answer that very question for a friend.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: fuser on January 14, 2011, 04:41:36 PM
Quote from: http://www.dcuniverseonline.com/faq.vm
Q: IS THE GAME PLAYABLE ACROSS BOTH PLATFORMS?

A: We want DC Universe Online to be an experience that's fun, rewarding and balanced for both console and PC gamers, so we've decided to keep the platforms separate.

It's specified in the official FAQ they are separate.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 14, 2011, 05:03:12 PM
For those of you that are playing-  am I missing something here or is the character creation process limited and lame?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 14, 2011, 08:17:00 PM
For those of you that are playing-  am I missing something here or is the character creation process limited and lame?

It starts out limited and lame with the idea that you will get new costume pieces from drops (or trade tokens for the epic armours).


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on January 14, 2011, 08:41:46 PM
So I've seen basically 1) Wall Running and 2) Gotham that make this game look like anything other than an EVEN MORE simplified CO or CoX, I'm not sure why people are getting all giddy over this all of a sudden?  I guess if you are a DC fan thats probably enough to justify it, but having played Champions a while back for a month, I can't see how this looks better at all unless you absolutely MUST be in the DC universe rather than the Champions Universe.

Granted, even at my most jaded I've been nicer to Champions that most of the folks around here, and my recent experience suggests the game has improved quite a bit since the train wreck-ish release.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Draegan on January 14, 2011, 10:36:26 PM
There's a scroll bar in the character creator for more options.  It's easy to miss.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Soln on January 15, 2011, 12:46:53 AM
is there as much variety in class/power creation as CoX and CO? 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 15, 2011, 01:13:33 AM
is there as much variety in class/power creation as CoX and CO?  

No. Three 'classes' - tank, controller and healer - and everyone can DPS. Every class has two power types - tank is fire and ice, controller is gadgets and mental and healer is nature and sorcery. Every power set has two trees plus there is a larger pool of miscellaneous powers anyone can choose from.

Weapon types are separate from powers and you have to choose one weapon type (and you can choose another one later down the line).

EDIT: Oh, and your power bar can only hold six powers at a time. DCUO has you much more dependent on your weapon than superpowers.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 15, 2011, 09:02:42 AM
There's a scroll bar in the character creator for more options.  It's easy to miss.

Yeah, I was missing it.  And the option for changing colors.  

In the end, they should have just plagiarized COs character creator.  That is the best one I've seen so far.  

Edit:  And I have to say that it is a little bit irritating that you go through the character creation process to get a cool look and then the gear you pick up changes it to something completely different.  Oh well, maybe that part will grow on me. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on January 15, 2011, 01:18:55 PM

Edit:  And I have to say that it is a little bit irritating that you go through the character creation process to get a cool look and then the gear you pick up changes it to something completely different.  Oh well, maybe that part will grow on me.  

There's an appearance tab, and a nifty one at that. Basically, each new piece of gear becomes an option you can turn on or off. So you can make Arachnid Person and have him stay the same until you give him an all white suit for the Public Wars.

  



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Khaldun on January 15, 2011, 01:29:50 PM
I am struggling against an overwhelming sense of weariness in that I know to be a responsible asshole with asshole opinions I will probably have to try this.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on January 15, 2011, 03:08:06 PM
I played for a couple of hours. Made an undead ice man tutored by Lex Luthor. He probably sucks, will roll something more thoughtful later. The game mechanics are kind of like a superhero diablo in three dimensions, which is atm a pretty fun thing to learn. It's been a long time since I've been completely clueless in an MMO.

 






Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 15, 2011, 03:45:12 PM
There's an appearance tab, and a nifty one at that. Basically, each new piece of gear becomes an option you can turn on or off. So you can make Arachnid Person and have him stay the same until you give him an all white suit for the Public Wars.

Cool!  Thank you for mentioning that.  I probably wouldn't have looked for it otherwise.  

I am struggling against an overwhelming sense of weariness in that I know to be a responsible asshole with asshole opinions I will probably have to try this.

It's a whole lot like CO so far. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on January 15, 2011, 04:28:35 PM
OMG, the Legends pvp mode is awesome. 4 Harley Quinns versus 4 Robins! Also, Joker's Vault. I love Mark Hamill.

This game has made an extremely good first impression.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 15, 2011, 05:03:06 PM
OMG, the Legends pvp mode is awesome. 4 Harley Quinns versus 4 Robins! Also, Joker's Vault. I love Mark Hamill.

This game has made an extremely good first impression.


Are you playing on a PvE or PvP server? 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Ginaz on January 15, 2011, 06:25:12 PM
Its Batman: Arkham Asylum meets CoX/CO...only much worse than any of them.  Which is bad since that means its worse than CO. :ye_gods:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Morfiend on January 15, 2011, 07:07:22 PM
OMG, the Legends pvp mode is awesome. 4 Harley Quinns versus 4 Robins! Also, Joker's Vault. I love Mark Hamill.

This game has made an extremely good first impression.


Are you playing on a PvE or PvP server? 

In a "I'm quitting smoking" fit, I bought this. So, who can I play with once it finishes downloading?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 15, 2011, 07:23:21 PM
I'll play with you.  I'm still testing out what I want on the character creation front and haven't really gotten into the game much.  Just let me know whatever server you're on and I'll start up a character on it. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 15, 2011, 07:28:07 PM
OMG, the Legends pvp mode is awesome. 4 Harley Quinns versus 4 Robins! Also, Joker's Vault. I love Mark Hamill.

This game has made an extremely good first impression.


It's not widely said, but the impression I get of DCUO is that PvP is going to be a big focus. They've got a lot of different PvP options - Legends, Arenas, etc - and the SOE interviews keep talking about how much they love PvP.

Right now it is all new and exciting, so PvP is more balanced, but once players get familiar with the mechanics I think the casual PvPers are going to be hard pressed to maintain a winning streak. Plus the FFA PvP servers are already seeing max level players camp outside safe houses to pound on the newbs.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 15, 2011, 07:35:28 PM
It appears that there are PvP zones on the PvE servers.  I've been having some fun with that now that I've finally gotten through the startup quest.

Edit:  Oops.  I was on a PvP server.   :grin:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Khaldun on January 15, 2011, 08:05:10 PM
Ok, I gave it a shot.

Made me realize that evolution is working in reverse: it's worse than CoX and CO, which is really an accomplishment.

Seriously. Worse character creation process than two games where their primary strength was a character creation process. The creation UI is freaking HORRIBLE compared to CoX or CO. How can you do worse when you have two fantastic models?

A power selection and levelling process that is about as opaque as filing your taxes, and feels hobbled by the intellectual property's requirements.

It looks ok. That's about all I can say so far.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on January 15, 2011, 09:39:01 PM

These days when I hear the phrase "we have a very strong PvP focus" I pretty much read it as "we don't have that much content".


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on January 16, 2011, 02:07:56 AM
Are you playing on a PvE or PvP server?  

I'm on the high pop EU pvp server. It's very gankalicious atm.




Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Triforcer on January 16, 2011, 07:55:10 AM
I like combat, the voiceovers, the general look of the game.  Things feel more intuitive and faster than CO.  I would really be hooked on this if it had roughly 4x the content and twice the number of powers.  Its obvious this got dumbed way down for console (6 powers only at any time).  Plus, as others have said, you are much more reliant on your weapon than your powers.

I'm starting to think that cityscapes aren't the best setting for superhero games.  All the buildings are pretty, but 95% of them have nothing on top.  Its like if a standard fantasy MMO zone had 5 minute stretches of absolutely no enemies before you came to a small clump of them.  I actually think the game would be better if the cities were shrunk considerably, but more was going on everywhere.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 16, 2011, 08:25:17 AM
I would really be hooked on this if it had roughly 4x the content and twice the number of powers.  Its obvious this got dumbed way down for console (6 powers only at any time).  Plus, as others have said, you are much more reliant on your weapon than your powers.

I'm starting to think that cityscapes aren't the best setting for superhero games.  All the buildings are pretty, but 95% of them have nothing on top.  Its like if a standard fantasy MMO zone had 5 minute stretches of absolutely no enemies before you came to a small clump of them.  I actually think the game would be better if the cities were shrunk considerably, but more was going on everywhere.


The lack of a ton of powers isn't typical for an MMO, but it does fit a little bit into the superhero genre.  Most superheros in comics didn't have but 2-3 things they could do that would be called "powers". 

I totally agree with the cityscape issue.  It gets pretty bland.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on January 16, 2011, 08:39:57 AM
The lack of a ton of powers isn't typical for an MMO, but it does fit a little bit into the superhero genre.  Most superheros in comics didn't have but 2-3 things they could do that would be called "powers". 
While true, there also tended to be a huge variety between heroes.  Not just six things.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 16, 2011, 09:07:47 AM
The lack of a ton of powers isn't typical for an MMO, but it does fit a little bit into the superhero genre.  Most superheros in comics didn't have but 2-3 things they could do that would be called "powers". 
While true, there also tended to be a huge variety between heroes.  Not just six things.

Also true.  I suppose I thought he was referring more to the limited number of things on the action bar.  They could easily add in some new types of power categories though. 

To me, not having 20 different things to do and 4 action bars is kind of nice. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on January 16, 2011, 09:14:23 AM
I think a limited amount of active powers, chosen from a larger list, is the way to go for mummorpgers. However, it should be done the Guild Wars way. I feel DCUO isn't quite there, but then again I have no idea how to do a build yet. It's still very enjoyable, especially with iconic powers in the mix.






Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Gunzwei on January 16, 2011, 09:53:45 AM
Plus, as others have said, you are much more reliant on your weapon than your powers.

My group is up to 5/6 on the level 30 alerts, and wanted to add that powers (and definitely roles) become a much bigger deal at the higher end due to how much harder the mobs/bosses become. In retrospect I'd say the 1-29 game is mostly just an introduction to some of the lore and basic mechanics. At 30 you focus a lot more on roles, gear, and achievements (which for every 100 points net you a skill point). Right now I'm spec'd in 4 different weapons just for the passives on healing bonuses. My little 29 dmg rifle shots fall short of my 600+ hp heals ;).

The power bar itself is better to imagine being like how GW sort of works as opposed to something like CoX. The powers you're using work better with the gear you're stacking. If you want a more fleshed out weapon'y toon stack precision and pick powers that boost weapon dmg. If you want a power toon then stack might and pick more direct dmg type powers. Around the higher 20's you'll start seeing role specific gear for healer/controller/tank which makes their role related powers considerably stronger.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: NiX on January 16, 2011, 11:13:36 AM
I want to try this game, but this thread is very 50/50 on the impressions.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 16, 2011, 12:13:56 PM
I want to try this game, but this thread is very 50/50 on the impressions.

I'm sure that if you wait 3 months, you'll be able to buy the game for $20 or less.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Khaldun on January 16, 2011, 12:19:46 PM
Le sigh. My daughter pronounces it awesome.

Combat's not bad, but that's always been the strength of superhero MMOs: they get the look of combat in a comics medium right. Doing the Scarecrow missions at the moment, and it's ok. Very very like CO, though, so that I can see what's coming in terms of the rest of the game not really working right.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on January 16, 2011, 01:14:43 PM
Well poop, looks like EU login servers just went tits up. Perhaps SOE didn't expect it to be this popular?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 16, 2011, 01:38:36 PM
I want to try this game, but this thread is very 50/50 on the impressions.

I'm sure that if you wait 3 months, you'll be able to buy the game for $20 or less.

Yes, and you'll also be able to decide what the overall consensus is by then and see if they are going to make any improvements. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Morfiend on January 16, 2011, 02:55:03 PM
Anyone playing on one of the PVP servers?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: bhodi on January 16, 2011, 06:47:16 PM
I want to try this game, but this thread is very 50/50 on the impressions.

Consider: we have several people already giving reviews of end game raiding. It's been out less than a week. Come back in 6 months when there's more than 2 weeks of content.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Chinchilla on January 16, 2011, 06:50:41 PM
I couldn't get into the overall gameplay or feel of the game.  Dunno why, but I just couldn't.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on January 16, 2011, 07:13:42 PM
I assume this did not launch with a free trial?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 16, 2011, 08:07:23 PM
I assume this did not launch with a free trial?

It had a pay-for-beta, so that'd be a no. :-)

I'd wait at least 3 months for things to settle in - there will probably be a Green Lantern expansion announced and you'll be able to see if SOE is delivering on their monthly content / quarterly major update promises. Plus you can see what the cash shop holds.

Regarding powers: my biggest bitch was that you can only have one pet out at a time, but the Gadgets / Traps (?) tree is loaded with them. It is the central line of that power tree, so if you wanted to progress you had to buy redundant powers. There never seemed any reason to use the 'lower' weapon turret if you'd got a better one, while the combat drone was weaker than the Iconic one that anyone could get.

I've seen Chris Cao out talking about how even they have less powers, they are better powers than the competitors, but DCUO is still using slightly reskinned repeat powers through a number of the trees.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 17, 2011, 12:32:22 AM
Hmm.. well, it could be that I haven't played an MMO in (years?) or that it's on the console, but the game is pretty fun actually.. not sure what the naysaying is about. It feels like CoH, but with more polish in the quests.. not to mention that it's DC, which is far cooler world than CoH was. Like all mmos there's a lot of room for improvement though..


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Khaldun on January 17, 2011, 04:06:17 AM
The quests do have some pretty good storytelling polish to them. If ever there was a game that needed phasing of some kind, though, this would be it--it's pretty jarring to the storytelling that's gone on that all of what I've already done is still there, because the narrative hook is not "I have to go kill ten boars in a forest full of boars", it's "I have to stop a sinister plot/set a sinister plot in motion".

I have to say that having the Joker as a mentor on the villain side is kind of a hoot, given how great Hamill's voicing of the role is.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Morfiend on January 17, 2011, 08:37:08 AM
The servers finally stabilized in the evening and I got some solid playtime. I really enjoyed it. I like the console style combat, and the feel of the locations is well done. I leveled a villain and hero to level 5. It was really cool how the two different bases really felt different.

I am hoping to meet up with some people to play. I created a Hero on Public Enemy, and a villain on the super high population pvp server, Death and something I think. Anyway, I dont mind rerolling, but I am hoping to play on a PVP server.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Modern Angel on January 17, 2011, 08:44:07 AM
I don't really know how to react to the slowly emerging consensus that this is actually pretty fun.  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: NiX on January 17, 2011, 08:44:30 AM
It had a pay-for-beta, so that'd be a no. :-)

I got a beta key without pre-ordering.

Probably should have used it.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Draegan on January 17, 2011, 01:45:59 PM
I picked this game up and it's fun as hell.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on January 17, 2011, 02:25:51 PM
I don't really know how to react to the slowly emerging consensus that this is actually pretty fun.  :ye_gods:

Low expectations + honeymoon period. CO was fun for a week or two as well.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 17, 2011, 02:29:45 PM
CO would have been better with some form of PvP.  

Edit: And the developers of this game will likely not pull the Cryptic trick of "hey here's a pile of shit, don't step in it" by not improving it really at all. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on January 17, 2011, 02:35:09 PM

Obviously not, SoE has a wonderful reputation for rapidly adding new content to their games.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Draegan on January 17, 2011, 02:44:25 PM
I don't really know how to react to the slowly emerging consensus that this is actually pretty fun.  :ye_gods:

Low expectations + honeymoon period. CO was fun for a week or two as well.


I thought CO was dogshit when it came out.  I never liked COX.

I've played this game a lot over the last two days.

Just my perspective.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on January 17, 2011, 03:01:14 PM
I just came back from a questing session that devolved into a giant pvp melee around a demon-infested police station in Metropolis. Fights are furious, death penalty is nonexistent and there's a repeatable quest for pvp kills. At one point I was ganking some lower level dudes and soon they all ganged up on me and beat me to a pulp. Ten minutes later there's a whole bunch of max level dudes clearing out everything. Emergent gameplay fuck yeah!



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 17, 2011, 03:47:21 PM

Obviously not, SoE has a wonderful reputation for rapidly adding new content to their games.


They have to their games that are worth a shit, e.g. Everquest 2.  Of course that's all they have right now that's any good.   Why put money into the shitty games like Vanguard?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 17, 2011, 06:00:19 PM
I don't really know how to react to the slowly emerging consensus that this is actually pretty fun.  :ye_gods:

It's fun, just not in a "I want to pay $15 a month (or US$20 a month if I live in Australia) to keep playing" kind of way. I'm sure some people will, but I'll be interested in the number of F13ers who actually play the game past the first 30 days. Cao's said that the game is designed for people who play 5 - 7 hours a week, so if you've already reached max level and spend your time in PvP, that's your likely game experience for a while.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on January 17, 2011, 06:05:23 PM
I like combat, the voiceovers, the general look of the game.  Things feel more intuitive and faster than CO.  I would really be hooked on this if it had roughly 4x the content and twice the number of powers.  Its obvious this got dumbed way down for console (6 powers only at any time).  Plus, as others have said, you are much more reliant on your weapon than your powers.

I'm starting to think that cityscapes aren't the best setting for superhero games.  All the buildings are pretty, but 95% of them have nothing on top.  Its like if a standard fantasy MMO zone had 5 minute stretches of absolutely no enemies before you came to a small clump of them.  I actually think the game would be better if the cities were shrunk considerably, but more was going on everywhere.


This pretty much describes Millennium City in Champions Online, but no one heralded that as a good MMO city.   The problem is that when a city is totally busy with enemies, it sort of stops feeling like a city, its hard to justify that kind of density  of villian and still feel remotely city-like.  Its goofy to see people walking down the streets when 3 floors up in the residential district there are villains on every rooftop mulling around.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Modern Angel on January 17, 2011, 07:25:21 PM
Yeah, I guess I'm just shocked that it didn't immediately crash and burn, regardless of the longevity for MMO vets.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Morfiend on January 17, 2011, 08:16:25 PM
So, is anyone playing on a PVP server. Bloodworth, where are you? This game seems right up your ally.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 17, 2011, 11:51:07 PM
I don't really know how to react to the slowly emerging consensus that this is actually pretty fun.  :ye_gods:

Low expectations + honeymoon period. CO was fun for a week or two as well.


I thought CO was dogshit when it came out.  I never liked COX.

I've played this game a lot over the last two days.

Just my perspective.

CoX had a better pace for the first 2 weeks it was out.. that's the CoX I was comparing this to above. I would have stuck with it longer, but for whatever reason, Statesman wanted it slowed down to typical MMO combat. Then I thought it sucked. Instead of moving away from that crap, he embraced it. They didn't set any foundation for PVP either, of course. While this game has some great ideas right off the bat, even if you're on a PvE server.

This would still be more fun though even if I didn't PvP and it had a slower pace. The button mashing is right up my alley. And all of the little cosmetic touches make it a better experience. Jim Lee is an MMO vet, just like Statesman - so there's someone who's immersed in both "genres" providing some vision for the overall feel of the game.. except he's Jim Lee. In a comic book geek fight, Jim wins.

That said, I don't exactly care about how it will develop one year from now or whatever.. I'll leave the forecasting for other people. The game is fun enough right now. I'm pretty much in the casual category, like someone mentioned above.. so maybe I'm just a good fit. I was never expecting some end-all-be-all MMO experience to replace WoW. I think that shit sucks anyways. I have two other friends who are casual as well, and this is just simple fun.. like playing any other action game online, except with more room for exploration.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Trippy on January 18, 2011, 12:54:26 AM
Jim Lee is an MMO vet, just like Statesman
No he's not.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 18, 2011, 01:42:40 AM
I think you misunderstood me.. I mean he is a vet in the sense of being a longtime fan of MMOs. That he's a guy like any of us with genuine input on the genre (rather than being in it for other reasons). And Jack Emmert was just a writer/artist like he is. I think the closest he came to actual developer experience with RPGs before City of Heroes was in pen and paper. As far as creative comparisons go though, I'm just partial to Jim Lee. I suppose I've been a fan of his art since I was a little kid. I don't think we have the tools to exactly recreate a Jim Lee universe, but it's cool that there is someone like that guiding it. Second, he has a license that's more iconic. Gliding around Gotham is fucking cool.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 18, 2011, 05:19:28 AM
Jim Lee is an MMO vet, just like Statesman
No he's not.


Jim Lee was an EQ addict; first player on his server to get some kind of armour or kill something big (or something - I'm not watching YouTube videos to find it).

There's a grand irony in using Lee's EQ experience - the multi-hour sessions, the hard grind he played - and use it to help somehow sell DCUO, where you can hit max level with 1 day played.

Actually, that's been genius - the number of people I've seen post, "Jim Lee is involved, he'll make sure things are done properly!" or "Jim Lee did that artwork and Marv Wolfman did the story and Mark Hamill is voicing the Joker, so this is gonna rock!" has been astounding. And makes me worry about our future as a species. But mostly astounding.

As far as creative comparisons go though, I'm just partial to Jim Lee.

As I said: This.

UPDATE: Not meant as a dig at Stray.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 18, 2011, 07:39:39 AM
No offense taken. I suppose I am in that camp, whatever it is.

Anyhow, the game is out. I don't think we have to speculate too much that having Jim Lee (and Mark Hamill for that matter) worked on some level. I've only played the lower half of levels.. both on Wonder Woman's and the Gotham side, and the atmosphere is cool at least.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Cyrrex on January 18, 2011, 07:40:02 AM
Gods dammit but I'm tempted.  Tempted!

Hey Stray, long time no see.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Sky on January 18, 2011, 07:54:47 AM
Ah, f13. You never fail to disappoint when it comes to disappointment. Make sure to set up a Bat Country chapter on a pvp server so we can add another abandoned chapter to the list!

Also, hi Stray!


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 18, 2011, 08:02:34 AM
Cao's said that the game is designed for people who play 5 - 7 hours a week, so if you've already reached max level and spend your time in PvP, that's your likely game experience for a while.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing.  That's about how much game time I have, and if the PvP is decent and reasonably even then they'll probably have my money for a while. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 18, 2011, 08:11:14 AM
I have two friends that were long-term CoH players and both are enjoying this game a lot.  I'm sure that the shine will fade quickly, but I'm going to give it a shot with them for a month.  I'm just debating when that month will start. 

I also see no reason to play on a PvP server.  There is plenty of access to pvp on regular servers and you can opt in when you're in the mood.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Cyrrex on January 18, 2011, 09:01:16 AM
So being a naturally weak-willed individual, I just rushed out an bought this.  It apparently DOES come with 30 free days.

Anyway, I got the PC version.  Seems we should start talking about what servers we're on, no?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Khaldun on January 18, 2011, 10:05:42 AM
Trying questing as a villain on a PvP server in an area camped by heroes. Problem is that the lack of death penalty plus the speed of combat turns it into a never-ending zerg mosh pit. You barely have time to notice who you're fighting, if it's someone of your level, or whatever: it's a if red then dead sort of thing. Had a bit of a frantic-fun feeling for about five minutes and then got old fast.

Also briefly tried to do some RP'ing on the public chat as a psycho-villain, kind of a cross between Ambush Bug and the Joker. Haven't done that for years. Big mistake. Lots of "shut up fag" and "wut you doing" from 18-year olds trying to level to 30 as fast as possible.

The comparison to CO is very strong in that once you've done the content, I don't see anything at all that's going to keep this interesting, and I don't see how on earth they're going to provide content at anything but a glacial pace. Hopefully they can at least avoid Cryptic's tendency to hopelessly fuck up a newly launched product with bizarrely incompetent changes to gameplay.

One thing I really do NOT like in terms of the genre is the weapon dependency. I accidentally equipped a different weapon last night and couldn't figure out why none of my abilities were working at all--there are a lot of classic superheroes that don't seem to me to have a "weapon" focus at all.  I also wish there was at least one more mode of fast travel: I don't like the default Spider-Manishness of acrobatics, but for non-flying non-speeding characters it's the only thing you can do.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 18, 2011, 10:12:51 AM
I like acrobatics.. I started with a flight character, but this is more involved, I guess.. Plus, it's not all spider-man-ish. My favorite part is that you can glide like Batman and kind of substitute for flight, depending on how high you are.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Draegan on January 18, 2011, 10:42:33 AM
I like acrobatics.. I started with a flight character, but this is more involved, I guess.. Plus, it's not all spider-man-ish. My favorite part is that you can glide like Batman and kind of substitute for flight, depending on how high you are.

Rocket glide is even better.

As far as endgame, I'm only level 11, but there are a bunch of things you can do.  Hard mode alerts.  Gear tokens, that sort of thing.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Stormwaltz on January 18, 2011, 11:59:35 AM
Seamus Young critiques the UI.

Quote
The chat filter is brain dead. It will turn “You have to hit its head” into “You have to hi####s head”, because it thinks you said “tits”. It will turn “petition” into “pe###ion”. And it will turn “Oh hush its not that bad” into “Oh hu#####s not that bad” because it thinks you said “shit”. You can’t disable the filter. The “tits” ones comes up often, and makes a mess of the chat window.

http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=10387


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 18, 2011, 01:45:54 PM
While a lot of those issues could be viewed as a problem, the game is still fun in spite of the UI.  I think the autotarget issue that he brings up is the biggest flaw I've noted so far.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Daeven on January 18, 2011, 03:47:03 PM
The gameplay is kinda fun. It's a nice change - but then I haven't played an MMO in years so... *shrug*

The UI on the other hand, clearly suffers from 'This Was ported from a console!' itus. Not just bad, but WTF were you thinking? bad.  If I don't last for more than the first month it will be the UI that does me in, not the gameplay.

*shrug*


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on January 18, 2011, 04:35:04 PM
Quote
The chat filter is brain dead. It will turn “You have to hit its head” into “You have to hi####s head”, because it thinks you said “tits”. It will turn “petition” into “pe###ion”. And it will turn “Oh hush its not that bad” into “Oh hu#####s not that bad” because it thinks you said “shit”. You can’t disable the filter. The “tits” ones comes up often, and makes a mess of the chat window.
Sounds like they used the same stupid filter from Free Realms and Clones Wars.  Ostensibly to protect the children, but they're the worst fucking filters in existence.  It's impossible to hold a conversation in those games.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Khaldun on January 18, 2011, 04:45:27 PM
I think he nails a lot in that run-down--the UI is actively at war with the fairly good visual design and play mechanics. And a lot of the time, the UI wins.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 18, 2011, 05:04:14 PM
I like acrobatics.. I started with a flight character, but this is more involved, I guess.. Plus, it's not all spider-man-ish. My favorite part is that you can glide like Batman and kind of substitute for flight, depending on how high you are.

Rocket glide is even better.

As far as endgame, I'm only level 11, but there are a bunch of things you can do.  Hard mode alerts.  Gear tokens, that sort of thing.

You can turn rocket glide into pseudo flight.

1) Have rocket glide on, so you are flying forward. At some point you'll start to dip in your travel path.
2) Jump (because you can jump during a rocket glide).
3) Turn off rocket glide.
4) Jump again, using acrobatic's double jump mechanic.
5) Turn rocket glide on again. You'll start to go up again.

You can't hover, but it is quicker than running along the ground. Worked in beta, at least.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 18, 2011, 07:30:32 PM
Lucky for me, I do play on the console. It's partly why I even gave it a shot. I don't really need anything but buttons and triggers.

Although it does suffer in the reverse, where there are some PC-like things that are difficult to control without having a keyboard. It's not really a UI issue, but there isn't much going on in chat, for one. That could be a good or bad thing. Like I said earlier, I just play solo or with friends, but I could see how that kind of subtracts from a "true" MMO experience.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 18, 2011, 10:33:45 PM
The comparison to CO is very strong in that once you've done the content, I don't see anything at all that's going to keep this interesting, and I don't see how on earth they're going to provide content at anything but a glacial pace. Hopefully they can at least avoid Cryptic's tendency to hopelessly fuck up a newly launched product with bizarrely incompetent changes to gameplay.

Well, they are already working on a Green Lantern themed expansion apparently.. I think it's planned to come out by the time that movie does.

I have to say that could be awesome. Silver Surfer is my intergalactic hero of choice, but Lantern works.

Same goes for Namor vs Aquaman, but an ocean based expansion would be pretty sweet..


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Xanthippe on January 19, 2011, 07:59:57 AM
Quick question (I haven't read this entire thread).

Does DCUO have crafting of any kind?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 19, 2011, 08:03:33 AM
No crafting.  



The comparison to CO is very strong in that once you've done the content, I don't see anything at all that's going to keep this interesting

It will depend a lot on how the PvP works out for DCUO.  So far it has been fairly engaging. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: SnakeCharmer on January 19, 2011, 12:00:14 PM
Gah.  So tempted to try this.  Even if it's just good for 30 hrs of content, that's still better than most single player games these days where 10 hrs seems to be the norm.



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on January 19, 2011, 12:30:46 PM
Gah.  So tempted to try this.  Even if it's just good for 30 hrs of content, that's still better than most single player games these days where 10 hrs seems to be the norm.



Its on Steam, so wait for a Steam sale if that is allyou want out of it, over the summer it'll probably be 15 bucks or something silly.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: squirrel on January 19, 2011, 01:46:12 PM
Well I picked it up out of boredom. Combat's pretty fun actually. UI is horribad. A PC game where I can't have a mouse cursor? Is that right?

Still, seems worth the first 30 days.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Ingmar on January 19, 2011, 02:29:05 PM
What, seriously, no cursor?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: kaid on January 19, 2011, 02:41:09 PM
You get a cursor when in windows when you open things like your inventory. But by default its mouse look on so camera always follows mouse movement. It feels a bit like planet sides interface kinda clunkyish but meh works well enough for me.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on January 19, 2011, 02:55:57 PM
I got a piece of the Antifreeze set (http://dcuniverseonline.wikia.com/wiki/Antifreeze). Suits my ice powers perfectly.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: squirrel on January 19, 2011, 03:10:56 PM
What, seriously, no cursor?

Yeah as kaid says, you do get a cursor occasionally - when a window is open. But in general gameplay I haven't figured out how to get a cursor. Mouselook is always on - so if you want to switch from General Chat Tab to Combat Chat Tab instead of just clicking on the tab (because there's no cursor) you have to hit Enter, then Tab, then you have the other tab.

Dunno, it's not critical, but it's clunky as hell. I'm thinking of borrowing a 360 wired controller because the game is so obviously designed for that input method.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Daeven on January 19, 2011, 03:40:17 PM
Yeah, the problems with the UI are just silly.

You can't exit Mouselook - which means you can't right click on another avatar to interact with them.
The chat space is maybe 250 characters. On a good day.
it looses what chat channel you are in, so you drop out of /group to /say (for example).
There is no way to *walk* for PC users.
You can't 'preset' costume flavors. You get one. That's it. (in spite of the ability to make zillions of piece and color combos).
Enter doesn't always start chat mode, so you need to pay attention, lets you start opening random menus or jumping all over the place.
The reply keyset doesn't always work. (/r) And so the only safe way to talk to people is /t "Char Name". Always.

....

You could keep going, but I think that starts to define 'horribad'.

And yet, the combat is so much fun I don't think I could go back to CoH.

Anyhow. It'll tide me over until Dragon Age 2 and Deus Ex 3 at the least.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 19, 2011, 06:15:25 PM
Do any of you play on a gamepad? I'm just curious if that improves it. I remember when I first played FFXI on PC, that's what helped. At least navigation-wise.. I know that won't fix the chat issues. /shrug



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: squirrel on January 19, 2011, 07:39:27 PM
Do any of you play on a gamepad? I'm just curious if that improves it. I remember when I first played FFXI on PC, that's what helped. At least navigation-wise.. I know that won't fix the chat issues. /shrug



Funnily enough I stopped at a friends and borrowed a pad and just played for an hour, it's much better. The UI is still craptastic but it makes the fun combat even more action focussed and helps with travel (I was hating WASD/Mouse with flight).

So yes, for me a big improvement.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: veredus on January 19, 2011, 10:00:01 PM
I'm glad someone asked that since was just wondering how it plays on like a 360 controller. I may have to try this out since I love being able to play games with a controller, it's nice to be lazy sometimes.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on January 19, 2011, 11:41:11 PM
You just plug in the 360 controller and tick the appropriate box in the settings menu. It works pretty well, but I prefer kbm anyway.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 20, 2011, 08:14:30 AM
So does anyone play this on the PS3? I'm on the Birthright server (PVE.. unofficial RP, but I haven't seen much of it). I've been dabbling with a few characters at once. My friends play villain, so my name there is Ripper Jack. Hero side is Lorelei and ... ahem.. Meridian. The name always stuck with me (from the loremaster of Shadowbane).


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Cyrrex on January 20, 2011, 08:19:24 AM
You just plug in the 360 controller and tick the appropriate box in the settings menu. It works pretty well, but I prefer kbm anyway.

Awesome.  The thing bugging me most about KB/M is the button mashing on the mouse.  Whole thing seems better suited to a pad.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Morfiend on January 20, 2011, 12:06:20 PM
I was wondering if anyone has a spare buddy key I could have for a friend. I guess the physical copies of the game came with them. Not the digital copies.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on January 20, 2011, 01:12:33 PM
Ok, one thing this game seriously needs is savable gear setups. That and fixing the bug where you have to equip an item multiple times until it "takes".



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: shiznitz on January 20, 2011, 01:44:32 PM
Ok, one thing this game seriously needs is savable gear setups. That and fixing the bug where you have to equip an item multiple times until it "takes".



That sounds like a server communication issue.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: squirrel on January 20, 2011, 02:03:06 PM
Ok, one thing this game seriously needs is savable gear setups. That and fixing the bug where you have to equip an item multiple times until it "takes".



Yeah I'm still low level but I've heard that at later levels not having gear presets for different loadouts (pvp, dps, role stance) means a lot of inventory hassle. I can see that already happening. Perhaps they'll fix it? Who knows.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: squirrel on January 20, 2011, 02:06:07 PM
You just plug in the 360 controller and tick the appropriate box in the settings menu. It works pretty well, but I prefer kbm anyway.

Awesome.  The thing bugging me most about KB/M is the button mashing on the mouse.  Whole thing seems better suited to a pad.

Forgive the double post, but yeah it's transparent plug and play. It even switches to highlighting the appropriate controller buttons for combos etc. Instead of the kb/m equivalents.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: SnakeCharmer on January 21, 2011, 06:09:38 AM
Bought it.  Played it.  Combat is pretty fun but OH MY GOD THE CLICKING.  I swear my mouse is going to explode or I'm going to have the worst case of carpal tunnel syndrome in the history of man.  I figure it's a toss up as to which happens first - or they may happen at the same time.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 21, 2011, 06:21:46 AM
This one's going to need a gamepad. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: SnakeCharmer on January 21, 2011, 06:32:10 AM
Yeah, figured that out last night as my hand begged for mercy.  Isn't there an adapter I can buy to use my existing wireless 360 controller?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Sky on January 21, 2011, 07:12:01 AM
Need to buy a receiver. (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Xbox+360+Wireless+Receiver#q=Xbox+360+Wireless+Receiver&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=ivns&source=univ&tbs=shop:1&tbo=u&ei=uKI5TfD3JcH78Abyte2SCg&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCwQrQQwAA&biw=1420&bih=934&fp=25a0b2344dc0e416)

Software/instructions (http://www.microsoft.com/nz/digitallife/gaming/how_to_connect_an_XBOX_360_controller_for_windows_to_a_computer.mspx)


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: SnakeCharmer on January 21, 2011, 07:27:36 AM
Thank ya sir


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: eldaec on January 21, 2011, 07:59:39 AM
an ocean based expansion would be pretty sweet..

SHUT YOUR FILTHY MOUTH

There never has been and never will be a good underwater/ocean expansion or level for any game anywhere ever.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Morfiend on January 21, 2011, 08:25:48 AM
an ocean based expansion would be pretty sweet..

SHUT YOUR FILTHY MOUTH

There never has been and never will be a good underwater/ocean expansion or level for any game anywhere ever.

Although I tend to agree, Cataclysm begs to differ.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 21, 2011, 08:53:25 AM
Sales are out.  (http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly.php?reg=World&console=&date=40559&maker=)

150k to the PS3, 45k to the PC. Pretty sure the PC doesn't include digital downloads. So let's say 300k all up in the launch week.

Makes it interesting to look at those numbers and then at SOE's claims the title had sold out - looks like they didn't ship a ton of boxes to start off with.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Trippy on January 21, 2011, 09:53:57 AM
an ocean based expansion would be pretty sweet..

SHUT YOUR FILTHY MOUTH

There never has been and never will be a good underwater/ocean expansion or level for any game anywhere ever.
Kedge Keep was fun once you learned how to deal with the mob pathing and aggro issues. I spent many hours down there helping guild mates collect epic weapon parts.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Cyrrex on January 21, 2011, 09:56:58 AM
How odd.  This game is actualy surprisingly fun.  UI takes some...getting used to, but otherwise there's some good polish here.

Gamepad is a VAST improvement over kb/m.  Vast.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Abelian75 on January 21, 2011, 10:37:17 AM
Although I tend to agree, Cataclysm begs to differ.

Heh heh, I had exactly the same reaction.  Both the general agreement and the immediate thought of the exception.  I immediately went to the underwater zone in Cata just to see if they'd managed to make it not suck complete ass like underwater areas in every single game in every genre ever (to include things like Mario Galaxy and Ninja Gaiden).  It didn't suck!  I was pleased.  The key seemed to be making you swim fast as all hell, have unlimited breath, let you stick to the floor if desired, and not have any shallow areas that make the camera management annoying as fuck.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: koro on January 21, 2011, 12:16:28 PM
Sales are out.  (http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly.php?reg=World&console=&date=40559&maker=)

150k to the PS3, 45k to the PC. Pretty sure the PC doesn't include digital downloads. So let's say 300k all up in the launch week.

Makes it interesting to look at those numbers and then at SOE's claims the title had sold out - looks like they didn't ship a ton of boxes to start off with.
Those sales numbers are actually better than I expected.

That's not to say they're good, though, and those 150k PS3 players won't last long, knowing the fickleness of the console multiplayer crowd.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Strazos on January 21, 2011, 01:48:13 PM
Picked it up on a whim. It's...interesting. I was expecting more in the graphics department. The UI is trash. The PvP seems...spammy and somewhat random, though it is fun to gang up on lvl30 gankers.

We'll see how it goes.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Modern Angel on January 21, 2011, 02:13:17 PM
Vashj'ir was godawful. Quests were one of three things and three things only:

1) Nagas are attacking! KILL NAGAS!
2) This person is hungry! Will you please go get him (insert seafood type here)
3) Haha we know you love vehicle fights and our terrible lore! Now you can enjoy both of them as we turn you into a naga and you play through interminably long flashback sequences!

All while ramping up the hyper on-rails aspect of the new zones to the highest degree in the entire expansion.



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Hawkbit on January 21, 2011, 02:16:02 PM
Half thinking of buying this on a whim... If that's possible.  Dilemma:  ps3 or pc?  I want to sit on through with his one.  Do I need a keyboard?  Will I be using a kyb a lot on ps3?  Thanks.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Morfiend on January 21, 2011, 02:46:44 PM
Picked it up on a whim. It's...interesting. I was expecting more in the graphics department. The UI is trash. The PvP seems...spammy and somewhat random, though it is fun to gang up on lvl30 gankers.

We'll see how it goes.

From what I can tell, PVP gets much more involved when you get higher level with more combos. I have only just realized the extent of the combo system. It is pretty crazy.

Go to your weapon tree and mouse over some of the skills, then on the left side, it will show the combo that skill can unlock. What I didnt realize is that some skills actually unlock up to 3 different combos.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on January 21, 2011, 03:36:11 PM
A quick tip to anyone using Ice: get Reflection ASAP. It's so worth it.





Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: lamaros on January 21, 2011, 03:46:00 PM
Keep seeing all sorts of everyone playing this on steam, so it can't be so bad. Or are people still in the "it's new, let's give it a shot" mentality?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on January 21, 2011, 04:17:59 PM
Vashj'ir was godawful. Quests were one of three things and three things only:

1) Nagas are attacking! KILL NAGAS!
2) This person is hungry! Will you please go get him (insert seafood type here)
3) Haha we know you love vehicle fights and our terrible lore! Now you can enjoy both of them as we turn you into a naga and you play through interminably long flashback sequences!

All while ramping up the hyper on-rails aspect of the new zones to the highest degree in the entire expansion.



^ minority opinion.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Abelian75 on January 21, 2011, 04:46:43 PM
Vashj'ir was godawful. Quests were one of three things and three things only:

Not to completely sideline things, but just as a clarification I was speaking only of the actual swimming/underwater/camera control aspect of the zone, not the quests or anything.  I thought they did pretty well with that.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 21, 2011, 04:51:03 PM
Picked it up on a whim. It's...interesting. I was expecting more in the graphics department. The UI is trash. The PvP seems...spammy and somewhat random, though it is fun to gang up on lvl30 gankers.

We'll see how it goes.

Some weapons aren't even that good if you spam. You have to learn combos to make the staff worthwhile, for example. The aoes and stuns make it stand out. I haven't PVPed with that character, but I'm getting the impression that I would easily win against anyone who tried to spam me.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Modern Angel on January 21, 2011, 04:58:37 PM
Not to completely sideline things, but just as a clarification I was speaking only of the actual swimming/underwater/camera control aspect of the zone, not the quests or anything.  I thought they did pretty well with that.

I'll completely agree with that.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Ingmar on January 21, 2011, 05:11:06 PM
I liked the naga flashback quests a lot, actually, those are probably some of the best 'vehicle' quests they've ever done.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 21, 2011, 06:04:52 PM
A quick tip to anyone using Ice: get Reflection ASAP. It's so worth it.

All reflections are bugged and OP'ed as a result afaik.

Keep seeing all sorts of everyone playing this on steam, so it can't be so bad. Or are people still in the "it's new, let's give it a shot" mentality?

It's the first major release of the year and had very little competition in that launch week, so I think a lot of people are giving it a shot. And it is fun for while.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on January 21, 2011, 06:07:10 PM
I liked the naga flashback quests a lot, actually, those are probably some of the best 'vehicle' quests they've ever done.

Likewise. The way they used a single very visible foliage to make cave entrances more obvious (because a cave entrance is often some distance from the quest mark in the cave and blends in if you are off elevation) was good. Not brilliant, because it should be obvious, but it was something CO really needed.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on January 21, 2011, 07:49:29 PM
I liked the naga flashback quests a lot, actually, those are probably some of the best 'vehicle' quests they've ever done.

Likewise. The way they used a single very visible foliage to make cave entrances more obvious (because a cave entrance is often some distance from the quest mark in the cave and blends in if you are off elevation) was good. Not brilliant, because it should be obvious, but it was something CO really needed.


I completely missed that.  Had a hell of a time finding cave entrances the entire time i was in vash, damnit.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 22, 2011, 01:06:35 AM

It's the first major release of the year and had very little competition in that launch week, so I think a lot of people are giving it a shot. And it is fun for while.

As for me, I haven't played anything since Age of Conan came out. I got tired of the genre so much that I didn't even see a reason to post at this site for awhile. I was looking forward to checking out SWTOR too, but this has entertained me enough. Most of these games are just plain underwhelming for me by design. Even in WoW, my highest character is 42. Suddenly, I'm finding myself wanting to do things in this game. Even solo.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Sir T on January 22, 2011, 04:21:41 AM
I think its stunning that people are concidering "didn't fucking crash and burn at launch" a stellar success.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on January 22, 2011, 04:33:49 AM
I think its stunning that people are concidering "didn't fucking crash and burn at launch" a stellar success.

Considering releases seem to have gotten worse and worse (APB anyone?) over the last couple years, anything that seems to trend in the other direction is worth mentioning.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Modern Angel on January 22, 2011, 04:36:17 AM
I don't consider it a stellar success or anything. I've got no intention of buying it, even though a lot of friends are gushing over it. I just think it's amazing that it didn't crash and burn since all indications were that this was going to be a launch failure of potentially historic, SOE destroying proportions. Big license, no testing, bad pub out of the beta, rushed release...


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 22, 2011, 11:35:02 AM
Have about an hour in the game so far and it's... entertaining.  Some things that I've noticed:

1) The camera makes me insane.

2) Definitely intended for a console.  If you're on a PC, get a game controller and CALIBRATE IT using the settings/options menu on the login screen.

3) It's PURDY.

4) Less customizable than COH, but I enjoy getting drops. 

More later.  I'm going to spend the day playing it with a friend that knows the game well.  So far, seems worth playing for at least the free month.  Beyond that... not sure.



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on January 22, 2011, 03:17:33 PM
If this is true, my enthusiasm for this game just took a nose dive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgHLHXAxLZ8



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 22, 2011, 04:23:50 PM
If this is true, my enthusiasm for this game just took a nose dive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgHLHXAxLZ8

Seems true.  I noticed an increase in damage when I rerolled and flew through the first mission.  I'll see if I can test it empirically tonight with a friend that also has flight.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on January 22, 2011, 04:39:11 PM
If this is true, my enthusiasm for this game just took a nose dive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgHLHXAxLZ8



A bug? just wait till they fix it if its such a huge deal.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on January 22, 2011, 06:19:54 PM

yeah, that's the sort of obvious bug you find during beta. Otherwise people use it to power-level and then crush noobies.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: veredus on January 22, 2011, 06:34:19 PM
Yeah, figured that out last night as my hand begged for mercy.  Isn't there an adapter I can buy to use my existing wireless 360 controller?


Also wired ones plug right in and are good to go.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 22, 2011, 07:40:50 PM
If this is true, my enthusiasm for this game just took a nose dive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgHLHXAxLZ8

Other bugs existing since beta include:

 - fire damage stacking when it shouldn't (although I believe a patch has made it less likely to happen, but there are workarounds)
 - reflection powers being OP'd, so that you do multiple damage back to the source
 - rapid stacking / execution of self-heals by healers

and I saw the other day reports of a stealth exploit that removes the slowness of that power and makes it permanent while attacking. Plus plenty of reports of lvl 30s lining up outside safe houses (and now early level mission areas) just waiting to gank newbs on PvP servers.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 23, 2011, 02:35:15 AM
Hah.. No wonder why my hand cannon/fire guy kicks so much ass. I guess..?

Fortunately, I've played the character mostly by myself on a PvE server. I have nothing to feel too guilty about. In fact, this inspires me to take advantage and level up more before it gets patched.  :why_so_serious: That said, I still don't find it as fun as my martial arts character, so whatever.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on January 23, 2011, 03:20:34 AM
I tried it and sure enough, I got my ass beat down when I landed, but airborne I took out two dudes all by myself. This does explain a lot.

I think I'll stick to pve until a patch arrives. It should be soon: http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?start=150&topic_id=10327#98309





Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 23, 2011, 03:35:53 AM
This character does get knocked down enough though (at least with some enemies.. I'm 19 atm) - and he lacks a lot of control over fights.. so in a way, the differences aren't drastic. PVE wise at least.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Triforcer on January 23, 2011, 09:14:44 AM
I still don't know if there is enough endgame content, but the journey to max level for me is much more fun than in CO.  PVP server and impromptu street battles are fun too.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 23, 2011, 12:00:44 PM
Played three characters to level ~10 yesterday.  All heros, through the 3 different areas. 

- The game is much more fun that I had guessed.

- The story writing isn't half bad.

- The UI gets in the way of the fun. 

- This is definitely a console game, but having access to a few keyboard commands helped. 

- The names of other human players ruins the immersion.

- The game still has too many bugs.  WTF were people doing in beta?

- Spawn rates are great for high population but will suck when the low levels become depopulated.  When playing late at night, I was overrun by respawns more times than I can count. 

- Balance seems pretty terribad for pvp.  It will take 6 months to sort out IF the game lasts that long.

- I'm interested in seeing what the endgame is like.  I'm playing duo with a friend and the game is almost too chaotic to really enjoy solid teamwork.  Perhaps I just need more practice.

   


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Sky on January 24, 2011, 07:16:56 AM
Keep seeing all sorts of everyone playing this on steam, so it can't be so bad. Or are people still in the "it's new, let's give it a shot" mentality?
Hi! Welcome to f13.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Rasix on January 24, 2011, 08:36:14 AM
Played three characters to level ~10 yesterday.  All heros, through the 3 different areas. 

- The game is much more fun that I had guessed.

- The story writing isn't half bad.

- The UI gets in the way of the fun. 

- This is definitely a console game, but having access to a few keyboard commands helped. 

- The names of other human players ruins the immersion.

- The game still has too many bugs.  WTF were people doing in beta?

- Spawn rates are great for high population but will suck when the low levels become depopulated.  When playing late at night, I was overrun by respawns more times than I can count. 

- Balance seems pretty terribad for pvp.  It will take 6 months to sort out IF the game lasts that long.

- I'm interested in seeing what the endgame is like.  I'm playing duo with a friend and the game is almost too chaotic to really enjoy solid teamwork.  Perhaps I just need more practice.

   

Seems a little raw for my tastes.  Thanks for the write up.   I wonder if people will still be playing when they fix a majority of the bugs/imbalances.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Morfiend on January 24, 2011, 08:42:14 AM
I think its stunning that people are concidering "didn't fucking crash and burn at launch" a stellar success.

Considering releases seem to have gotten worse and worse (APB anyone?) over the last couple years, anything that seems to trend in the other direction is worth mentioning.

Honestly more than this, and the game not crashing and burning. Playing it is actually fun. Something that hasnt happened in a MMO for a while, especially right off the bat. It reminds me of Haemish's Horizons review where he said "I logged in with my new character and was confronted with a bunch of signs pointing me at stuff like crafting and vendors, but nowhere in the game did I find a sign pointing me to 'fun'".

DCUO throws you right in to fun.

On another note about character customization, I have noticed that you can get a bunch of item drops that have stats, and item drops that are just cosmetic. What I think they where going for was a basic "im a new super hero" look at creation, then evolving your character with drops and unlocks to a more finished concept. I actually like this. While it bummed me out I couldnt make a few of the concepts I wanted right off the bat (Power armor?), but evolving your characters look is something none of the other Superhero MMOs had at launch.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: HaemishM on January 24, 2011, 09:44:08 AM
- The game still has too many bugs.  WTF were people doing in beta?

Reporting bugs that never got fixed or were ignored.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 24, 2011, 10:08:07 AM
Reporting bugs that never got fixed or were ignored.

Probably true.  

My biggest issue with the game is that the combat tends to be so fast and chaotic that I never feel like I was as efficient as I could have been.  The targeting doesn't help this at all... often you pull another group unintentionally due to the autotargeting system.  

Still, the game is fun.  I am really enjoying the game quite a lot more than I did CoH.  I'm not sure how long the fun will last, but it is definitely better than I expected.  It got even better when I started playing it with a game controller.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Morfiend on January 24, 2011, 10:43:16 AM
I'm going to ask again just in case.

Is anyone playing on any of the PVP servers and want someone to play with? I would love to have some people to group with that I knew at least somewhat.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 24, 2011, 10:47:38 AM
Is anyone playing on any of the PVP servers and want someone to play with? I would love to have some people to group with that I knew at least somewhat.

You're a brave soul.  I would love to join you on a pvp server, but I don't like being spawn camped by level 30's at every exit portal.  I may reroll once I learn the skill trees and mechanics better. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Ginaz on January 24, 2011, 11:05:44 AM
If this is true, my enthusiasm for this game just took a nose dive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgHLHXAxLZ8

Seems true.  I noticed an increase in damage when I rerolled and flew through the first mission.  I'll see if I can test it empirically tonight with a friend that also has flight.

Its very true.  I made a brawler/flying character on a pvp server and beat down a lvl 12, lvl 13, two lvl 16s and almost beat a lvl 18 when I was lvl 6.  Thats not counting all the lvl 10 and below players I shit kicked in a matter of seconds.  Once again, soe Q&A= :ye_gods:.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: squirrel on January 24, 2011, 11:18:34 AM
I'm going to ask again just in case.

Is anyone playing on any of the PVP servers and want someone to play with? I would love to have some people to group with that I knew at least somewhat.

I'm playing with some folks from Qt3 on Cry for Blood - Villains. Although tbh Leagues haven't been much use yet, but it's a good server so far. There's ganking of course but neither side seems to outnumber the other too much and the higher levels have found other stuff to do at least that's been my experience. Shoot me a PM if you want more info.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Khaldun on January 24, 2011, 12:42:46 PM
I have one villain toon on a PvP server. Yes, pretty much what most people do is hover over the entrance/exit portals and gank like mad at every level-appropriate villain approaches.

There is a problem in every game of this kind that doesn't match PvP with the character or nature of the genre. Think of the times when gangs of Jedi in SWG went around gang-raping everybody they could--it really drops a smelly bomb right in the middle of anything approaching immersive play.

The speed of combat and the targeting also really really cuts into any sense that you're fighting someone with anything remotely like skill in either the twitchy or RPG sense. Feels just like "button mash + be of a higher level than your victim + travel in zerg packs".


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: squirrel on January 24, 2011, 01:48:14 PM
I have one villain toon on a PvP server. Yes, pretty much what most people do is hover over the entrance/exit portals and gank like mad at every level-appropriate villain approaches.

There is a problem in every game of this kind that doesn't match PvP with the character or nature of the genre. Think of the times when gangs of Jedi in SWG went around gang-raping everybody they could--it really drops a smelly bomb right in the middle of anything approaching immersive play.

The speed of combat and the targeting also really really cuts into any sense that you're fighting someone with anything remotely like skill in either the twitchy or RPG sense. Feels just like "button mash + be of a higher level than your victim + travel in zerg packs".

Hrm. My experience has been different. Never had a NIghtclub entrance or respawn really camped in leveling two characters to the mid teens. Quest areas can certainly turn into battlegrounds/gank fields.

Also, in my experience if you know your powers and weapons and can use the block, interrupt and stun mechanics you can beat people 5+ levels above you. I can understand not liking the frantic twitch combat but I like the combo system and find it refreshing that I don't automatically lose because sOmeone has 5 levels on me. Ymmv.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 24, 2011, 02:01:09 PM
I can understand not liking the frantic twitch combat but I like the combo system and find it refreshing that I don't automatically lose because sOmeone has 5 levels on me. Ymmv.

I totally understand this.  I'm trying my best to understand the powers and how they enhance each other. I think that once I get the mechanics down, I may be more into trying a pvp server.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Morfiend on January 24, 2011, 02:39:39 PM
I have one villain toon on a PvP server. Yes, pretty much what most people do is hover over the entrance/exit portals and gank like mad at every level-appropriate villain approaches.

There is a problem in every game of this kind that doesn't match PvP with the character or nature of the genre. Think of the times when gangs of Jedi in SWG went around gang-raping everybody they could--it really drops a smelly bomb right in the middle of anything approaching immersive play.

The speed of combat and the targeting also really really cuts into any sense that you're fighting someone with anything remotely like skill in either the twitchy or RPG sense. Feels just like "button mash + be of a higher level than your victim + travel in zerg packs".

Hrm. My experience has been different. Never had a NIghtclub entrance or respawn really camped in leveling two characters to the mid teens. Quest areas can certainly turn into battlegrounds/gank fields.

Also, in my experience if you know your powers and weapons and can use the block, interrupt and stun mechanics you can beat people 5+ levels above you. I can understand not liking the frantic twitch combat but I like the combo system and find it refreshing that I don't automatically lose because sOmeone has 5 levels on me. Ymmv.

This is more my experience also. As long as there is nothing really lost from dying in PVP, I much prefer it. I like the feeling that others can have an effect on my world, and I on theirs.

Yeah, it gets frustrating when you are killed several times by a high level player while trying to quest, but I have found usually several mid level players will gang up and kill the high level player. Its not like I need to rush to max level, so what do I care if I spend an extra 5 to 10 minutes every hour or two running back from the respawn point? Small price to pay for the world feeling more alive and interactive.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Strazos on January 24, 2011, 04:36:30 PM
Currently rolling with a few buddies on Death and Glory, PvP server. Message me on Steam if you like.

Also, I find the ability to kill 30's to be pretty refreshing. Unfortunately, the UI tries really hard to get in your way. Also disliking the lack of feedback on what specifically abilities do, in an empirical sense.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 24, 2011, 04:44:00 PM
- The game still has too many bugs.  WTF were people doing in beta?

Reporting bugs that never got fixed or were ignored.

A pre-launch patch that fixed a number of exploits was promised (that I don't think quite arrived), while SOE is "aware of" how bad the chat system is.

I am interested to see how PS3 players react to their first character nerfing.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Morfiend on January 24, 2011, 08:03:03 PM
I am interested to see how PS3 players react to their first character nerfing.

Fire/Brawler/Flight.


Currently rolling with a few buddies on Death and Glory, PvP server. Message me on Steam if you like.

Invite sent, just realized we are not steam friends. Heroes or Villains?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Margalis on January 25, 2011, 12:08:12 AM
I thought this was going to be absolutely awful so I'll man up and eat crow on this one. From what I understand it's pretty decent. It looked like the worst game at E3 (or second-worst behind Crackdown 2) so they really must have busted their asses to get it into shape.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 25, 2011, 06:13:38 AM
Unless it was fixed between beta and launch, close up animations look good, but from a distance can look incredibly jerky. Someone in the beta described it as "looking like the NPCs all suffered from some kind of contagious epilepsy they are trying to infect others with" which was pretty accurate.

But yes, it is fun for a bit.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Khaldun on January 25, 2011, 07:50:37 AM
I really do like how it's fun from the outset, but not the kind of thing (a la Tortuga) where only the outset is fun and everything else horrible. That's good work.

The bugs, though, oh my god. Pet pathing is often completely borked. I kept trying to finish the Raven mission with one of my villains and he has that demon pet and it would just stop and not go anywhere inside the instance. Maybe you can desummon it and resummon it, I dunno, but I haven't been able to figure out how.

Bosses can get stuck in the scenery or otherwise just stop doing their moves--in that same instance, the first time I ran it, Cyborg went over to a wall and just kind of sat there, but was also unkillable. Time to start the whole thing over.

Chat. There is really no excuse for this. How can you launch a MMO at this point in time without an easily used /ignore feature? Without anticipating gold spammers? I'd think people with some live management experience in an MMO are pretty easy to hire at this point, given the numbers of MMOs that have failed or downsized.

I'm getting the hang of PvP more, but I guess the server I picked is more vicious (and there are more heroes than villains) because there really are people camped all the time outside of instance portals. I think if it was just about two millseconds less twitchy and targeting was less stupid, it would be a bit more fun because I'd be able to block/break stun a bit more effectively. But it is true that a single lone ganker can get swarmed and killed fast by characters much lower than he is. I've seen two level 9s take down a level 30 with good tactics. That's nice.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: squirrel on January 25, 2011, 10:01:37 AM
The bug that caused some weapons to do 3x damage in melee when a character is flying is being fixed today (http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?topic_id=13732). Thank god. That was getting annoying.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 25, 2011, 10:51:05 AM
The bug that caused some weapons to do 3x damage in melee when a character is flying is being fixed today (http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?topic_id=13732). Thank god. That was getting annoying.

I was enjoying the fast killing in Pve while duo with a friend.  We made level 15 in a few hours.

Not that I'm in any rush to hit cap.  It was just fun to sit back and watch him blow stuff up with melee.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 25, 2011, 12:53:47 PM
Wait.. this must apply to brawling specifically....? I rolled a brawler and he kicked ass in just the tutorial section. I thought that my hand blaster/fire dude was overpowered, but now that I think about it, my tutorial wasn't like that. Maybe I'm just playing as intended after all (good thing, I don't want to be nerfed just yet!).


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lucas on January 26, 2011, 08:51:43 AM
Review on PC Gamer (final vote: 88  )

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/01/26/dc-universe-online-review/

Snippet:

Quote
I hit the level cap in just 30 hours, which might be discouraging except that, for a just-launched MMO, there’s already an absurdly high amount of endgame progression and content available. Specifically, there are six rewarding hard-mode dungeons, two extremely difficult eight-player raids and about 10 hours of diverse, fairly enjoyable repeatable daily content. The daily missions are made up of quests (mostly reworked solo instances), bounties on iconic characters like Bizarro and Flash and rotating “featured maps” in each PvE and PvP mode. I was disappointed that the quests that you’re asked to complete each day don’t automatically rotate, but there’s enough of it that I could delay the feeling of repetition by alternating which ones I played each day.

Most importantly, there’re plenty of ways to continue meaningfully advancing your character after the level cap. You can change your weapon type and respec your powers at any time (which drastically changes your playstyle) and even train in multiple weapons, which is made easier by the fact that collecting achievements awards you more points to spend on weapon skills.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 26, 2011, 08:54:22 AM
I just don't understand any concerns with a low level cap.  If the end-game PvP  and raiding is fun, why bother with levels?  Of course this has been rehashed around here a million times already.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Modern Angel on January 26, 2011, 09:23:31 AM
This is really disorienting. I just don't know how to react to all the praise. It's making me feel a little nauseated and dizzy.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 26, 2011, 09:56:37 AM
This is really disorienting. I just don't know how to react to all the praise. It's making me feel a little nauseated and dizzy.

It's a superficial but fun experience.  If you expect anything that merits a subscription fee, you'll be disappointed. 

I fully expect this game to go F2P within a year.  The game has no real hook to it, which is both its charm and its curse.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Ginaz on January 26, 2011, 11:28:01 AM
This is really disorienting. I just don't know how to react to all the praise. It's making me feel a little nauseated and dizzy.

It's a superficial but fun experience.  If you expect anything that merits a subscription fee, you'll be disappointed. 

I fully expect this game to go F2P within a year.  The game has no real hook to it, which is both its charm and its curse.

This is how I feel.  It can be a fun game and seems fairly solidly built but its definately not worth a monthly sub, much like STO.  I would play past the first month if it was F2P or even B2P (same for STO).


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: DLRiley on January 26, 2011, 01:34:45 PM
Review on PC Gamer (final vote: 88  )

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/01/26/dc-universe-online-review/

Snippet:

Quote
I hit the level cap in just 30 hours, which might be discouraging except that, for a just-launched MMO, there’s already an absurdly high amount of endgame progression and content available. Specifically, there are six rewarding hard-mode dungeons, two extremely difficult eight-player raids and about 10 hours of diverse, fairly enjoyable repeatable daily content. The daily missions are made up of quests (mostly reworked solo instances), bounties on iconic characters like Bizarro and Flash and rotating “featured maps” in each PvE and PvP mode. I was disappointed that the quests that you’re asked to complete each day don’t automatically rotate, but there’s enough of it that I could delay the feeling of repetition by alternating which ones I played each day.

Most importantly, there’re plenty of ways to continue meaningfully advancing your character after the level cap. You can change your weapon type and respec your powers at any time (which drastically changes your playstyle) and even train in multiple weapons, which is made easier by the fact that collecting achievements awards you more points to spend on weapon skills.



And I'm sold. except for the monthly fee...


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on January 26, 2011, 01:45:52 PM
I can't understand why the fee is such an issue. If the game exhausts its content within a month, then you got a regular ass game that was fun while it lasted.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Morfiend on January 26, 2011, 02:01:02 PM
I can't understand why the fee is such an issue. If the game exhausts its content within a month, then you got a regular ass game that was fun while it lasted.

Your logic isn't welcome here!

 :mob:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on January 26, 2011, 05:50:23 PM
I can't understand why the fee is such an issue. If the game exhausts its content within a month, then you got a regular ass game that was fun while it lasted.

The long and short of it is that we have been trained over the years that a game with an MMO tag means that we should be able to play it exclusively for 3 years straight without wanting to play something else.  Any game that doesn't live up to this is marked a failure.  It isn't "logical" but I think even those of us who aren't doing it consciously are grasping at new MMOs and hoping one sticks like one did for us 5+ years ago. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: squirrel on January 26, 2011, 05:58:31 PM
Conversely as someone who just picked this up on a whim and had no expectations good or bad I'm surprised they didn't go box cost and F2P with a cash shop out of the box. It's perfect for that model. I suspect mgmt wanted predictable recurring revenue that subs bring. That said I've subbed for a month for the discount - I like the combat and leveling speed enough to give them another $15.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on January 26, 2011, 06:28:53 PM

An MMO is probably going to cost more in development and sell less than a single player game as lots of people detest the idea of paying a subscription fee. So if DCUO has been funded on the basis they'll get box sales plus a month or two, which was more or less the cryptic model, all power to them. The question is would they have made more going f2p and cash shop. Which honestly you'd think the DC license and super-hero genre are ideally suited for.

It's no surprise the players consider box + free month a good deal if they're consuming a heap of expensive to produce content in a short amount of time.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 26, 2011, 10:20:13 PM
I can't understand why the fee is such an issue. If the game exhausts its content within a month, then you got a regular ass game that was fun while it lasted.

The long and short of it is that we have been trained over the years that a game with an MMO tag means that we should be able to play it exclusively for 3 years straight without wanting to play something else.  Any game that doesn't live up to this is marked a failure.  It isn't "logical" but I think even those of us who aren't doing it consciously are grasping at new MMOs and hoping one sticks like one did for us 5+ years ago. 

Or perhaps that a game that features a subscription service should justify that with content that lasts longer than the free trial?

In udda wurds, why not just make the goddamn game a regular old multiplayer game and skip all the MM nonsense?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 27, 2011, 07:47:57 AM
Why does this have to be another multiplayer rpg or some obviously/catassy/longterm virtual world affair? Why just those two choices? There's more possibility than that. As far as I'm concerned, this game's "possibility" is just to be fun in-the-moment and be massive at the same time. And when that wears off, I'll go somewhere else and not resent it. As far as it's future viability goes, I'll be happy as long as the servers don't get taken offline anytime soon and that the combat doesn't suddenly start sucking from some revamp patch or some shit. That's about it. Otherwise, it's just a game, meant to be played while I'm in it. I'd suggest to approach that way (or don't! Just play something that caters to your sense of longterm investment.).

EDIT: BTW, does anyone here play pistols or rifles? Do high level weapons/skills change animations from ballistic to laser or futuristic weaponry?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Typhon on January 27, 2011, 10:53:24 AM
I can't understand why the fee is such an issue. If the game exhausts its content within a month, then you got a regular ass game that was fun while it lasted.

The long and short of it is that we have been trained over the years that a game with an MMO tag means that we should be able to play it exclusively for 3 years straight without wanting to play something else.  Any game that doesn't live up to this is marked a failure.  It isn't "logical" but I think even those of us who aren't doing it consciously are grasping at new MMOs and hoping one sticks like one did for us 5+ years ago. 

Those of us you that are still hoping for another 3-to-5 year love affair need to realize that you've been through ringer a number of times now and YOU have changed... well, all except for the part where you are hoping to give yourself to a game 'for reals!'.  I think this is why I was perfectly happy to have the cheap affair that I had with CO, then move on, while (most) of the rest of you were disgusted with my willingness to have a month worth of booty calls with a cheap tramp.

News flash: Cheap tramps can be fun, just don't expect them to be 1) faithful 2) deliver on their promises 3) have a deep meta game 4) not be obvious about only wanting you for your money.  If you can't accept them for what they are, well, that leads to unhappiness.

News flash 2: You've been around the block so many times, all MMO games look like cheap tramps.  So who's the slut now, eh?  But that's ok, I'm a slut too.  Just don't be a bitter slut, it's unbecoming.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Ginaz on January 27, 2011, 11:41:11 AM
Why does this have to be another multiplayer rpg or some obviously/catassy/longterm virtual world affair? Why just those two choices? There's more possibility than that. As far as I'm concerned, this game's "possibility" is just to be fun in-the-moment and be massive at the same time. And when that wears off, I'll go somewhere else and not resent it. As far as it's future viability goes, I'll be happy as long as the servers don't get taken offline anytime soon and that the combat doesn't suddenly start sucking from some revamp patch or some shit. That's about it. Otherwise, it's just a game, meant to be played while I'm in it. I'd suggest to approach that way (or don't! Just play something that caters to your sense of longterm investment.).

EDIT: BTW, does anyone here play pistols or rifles? Do high level weapons/skills change animations from ballistic to laser or futuristic weaponry?

That might be good for the players, but not so good for soe.  I'm fairly certain soe was counting on people becoming invested in the game just like any other mmo.  They have a lot invested in this and need it to be a success.  Two failed MMOs based on popular, well known IPs won't be good.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Typhon on January 27, 2011, 12:03:45 PM
And yet GW has a model where they only make money from box sales and they are doing fine.  And Cryptic apparently has a business model where they put an "entertaining for a month and maybe you'll return when we add some content" business model and ... well, they haven't gone out of business.

I'll let SOE worry about SOE.  If their business folks haven't noticed what happened to WAR, hell, what big IP franchise HAS been sucessful?  If their business folks haven't taken a look at what Cryptic/ArenaNet/DDO are doing, and whether Cryptic and ArenaNet have been successful (sounds like DDO is successful) with an alternative to "RETENTION!!!" as a business model, why would players care?  

There are too many games in the market place now for folks to stay tied to one game after they have exhausted the content (and wait for more) - I think retention is dead as a primary business model for these games (if you aren't WoW).  If a game developer/publisher isn't making enough money to support the business without six months of retention, they are doing it wrong.  Frankly I'd prefer more games develop like Runic is doing with Torchlight - give us something to play, we'll tell you (via sales) what we like and don't like, rinse, repeat.  Taking 5 years to deliver a game that you rush out the door in the last six months is a broken way to develop a game.

Edit "light Torchlight" meant nothing, changed to mean something


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on January 27, 2011, 12:22:29 PM
Those of us you that are still hoping for another 3-to-5 year love affair need to realize that you've been through ringer a number of times now and YOU have changed... well, all except for the part where you are hoping to give yourself to a game 'for reals!'.  I think this is why I was perfectly happy to have the cheap affair that I had with CO, then move on, while (most) of the rest of you were disgusted with my willingness to have a month worth of booty calls with a cheap tramp.
There's nothing wrong with a cheap thrill... but it's best to be able to wake up not needing a doctor's visit.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Typhon on January 27, 2011, 02:29:16 PM
:) I knew I could count on you


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: NiX on January 27, 2011, 02:49:57 PM
That analogy works incredibly well if the one night stand is with a hooker and the commitment to one game is a wife. The hooker costs you once, the wife costs you every month. :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 27, 2011, 11:03:01 PM
That analogy works incredibly well if the one night stand is with a hooker and the commitment to one game is a wife. The hooker costs you once, the wife costs you every month. :why_so_serious:


hooker =  best buy

wife =  radio shack


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Morfiend on January 28, 2011, 08:37:33 AM
hooker =  best buy

wife =  radio shack

One is overpriced, doesnt ever have what you need and smells funny while the other will take your money and fuck you?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Abelian75 on January 28, 2011, 10:38:40 AM
One is overpriced, doesnt ever have what you need and smells funny while the other will take your money and fuck you?

To be fair, I think it's long been at least tacitly understood that we're all complete masochists.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 28, 2011, 10:40:59 AM
Is it wrong that I enjoy my furry and female toons more than anything?  :why_so_serious:

If I have a big complaint, it's that the male body styles aren't well done.. at least I can't seem to tolerate it without going back into design mode and not playing the game. Too muscleheaded. Even worse if you pick the flirty standing style (I didn't do that myself, but I see these players everywhere. I kind of wish I could go into Shadowbane mode and just kill them. They kind of look like guidos).


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 28, 2011, 10:56:08 AM
I thought I'd offer this up as someone that primarily solos.  I played my first 4 toons to level 10+ as ranged (hand blaser, pistols, archery, rufle) and was discouraged by my survivability.  Last night I made a melee toon and... huge difference.  My killing got faster.  Survivability was better.  Overall a more fun experience.  I recommend trying both melee and ranged before giving up solo.  They are quite different in their approach and one may suit you better than the other. 

I also find this game more interesting as I better understand the synergy between powers.  Knowing how powers interconnect makes a big difference in effectiveness.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 28, 2011, 11:26:29 AM
I make characters based on RP value/concept. :geek: Partly why I love this (and Coh/etc). Although they don't give you the greatest "palette" to work with here (I heard Champions was the best in the character creation dept). Anyways!.. sometimes the rp concept synergizes into a stronger character. And I wouldn't say melee necessarily has the leg up on soloing.. have you played dual pistols? Pretty fast paced and easy to pull off combos.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 28, 2011, 01:11:45 PM
Is it normal to have a random Batman siting? Last night, I was preparing for a quest and stopped on a ledge.. then I noticed some dude perching on one of those demonheads, looking around.. and I got closer because I wondering how he was doing it.. he didn't have a name to click on. Then I saw he looked like Batman, and some voiceover came in and said something like "Don't let the villains win." and he jumped off.

Anyways, that was pretty cool NPC scripting.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: kaid on January 28, 2011, 02:04:51 PM
First time I left metropolis and was bouncing around in gotham I looked up and saw the bat signal that was a total win moment for me. Not sure of its longevity but the game play is fun and its one of the best usages of voice overs without going nuts with them that I have seen.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Morfiend on January 28, 2011, 02:37:32 PM
Is it normal to have a random Batman siting? Last night, I was preparing for a quest and stopped on a ledge.. then I noticed some dude perching on one of those demonheads, looking around.. and I got closer because I wondering how he was doing it.. he didn't have a name to click on. Then I saw he looked like Batman, and some voiceover came in and said something like "Don't let the villains win." and he jumped off.

Anyways, that was pretty cool NPC scripting.

I ran in to him on my villain character who is mentored by the Joker. I was stealthed on top of one of the buildings in gothem, and like you I saw him standing on a ledge or edge, and I slowly moved up, he turned around, smacked me and it stunned me, and he said something like "Dont think I dont see you there"  or "Dont think I dont see what you are up to" and then threw a smoke bomb and disappeared. It was pretty awesome.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on January 28, 2011, 07:47:16 PM
I have been playing a dual pistols character.  It is still pretty heavily melee  based


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 29, 2011, 09:32:25 AM
First time I left metropolis and was bouncing around in gotham I looked up and saw the bat signal that was a total win moment for me. Not sure of its longevity but the game play is fun and its one of the best usages of voice overs without going nuts with them that I have seen.

Agreed.. seems like there's a lot of Whedon alumni actually..

My favorite voice is the Huntress though. The actor is an unknown, but she sounds so pissed off and disgusted. I started Gotham as a villain, but the second I saw her cutscene I was like "Screw this.. I need to make my own badass chick toon."

The cutscenes are kind of a cool treat btw.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Khaldun on January 30, 2011, 03:43:17 PM
I ran into Green Lantern in Metropolis with my villain. It was pretty awesome--he smashed me back into the river and took off, like he didn't have time to worry about me.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Strazos on January 30, 2011, 04:40:04 PM
I find the lack of detail and feedback on what the powers do exactly to be somewhat frustrating. Otherwise, I find it to be entertaining. Really wish CoH had the same XP curve a few years ago. Also love beasting lvl 30's when I'm on with a lowbie group.

The rolly-polly nonsense is annoying, though.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 30, 2011, 05:29:46 PM
The rolly-polly nonsense is annoying, though.

... but critical to surviving PvP and nullifying control effects. If SOE had added a 2 second timer or something to it so that you couldn't just roll your way to freedom prior to launch things might have been a bit different, but they didn't and now it is becoming the standard way to play.

A rolling character who gets hit with a lunge attack will be stunned, but this isn't widely known or easy to pull off given how finicky targeting is.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: DaZog on January 30, 2011, 08:31:12 PM
I find it to be entertaining. Really wish CoH had the same XP curve a few years ago. Also love beasting lvl 30's when I'm on with a lowbie group.


I do too, when you find those that don't abuse animation cancels to unload powers + slow combos almost instantly.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Strazos on January 30, 2011, 08:33:22 PM
I know you can stun rollers with lunge attacks, but if they manage to roll out of range, they're hard to catch.

Still liking the game overall, surprisingly.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 31, 2011, 05:44:56 AM
I know that both of my healers have a number of attacks that get through blocking.  Perhaps there is a shortage of healers?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Sky on January 31, 2011, 08:01:51 AM
Wait.


Rolling?


 :awesome_for_real:
 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on January 31, 2011, 08:20:34 AM
Wait.


Rolling?

If they're talking about what I think they're talking about, it's a block + move combo that reduces damage.  In PvE it's a must against boss mob critical attacks.  I can see how it would be annoying as hell in pvp.  Yet again demonstrating how PvE and PvP features within the same game make for poor bedfellows.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Cyrrex on January 31, 2011, 09:16:47 AM
So, the game is still fun.  I think they have figured out something important here...it plays more like a single player game.  I wish more games were built with this in mind - make it a solid single player experience and include some of the better MMO mechanics.  The only real interactions I've had with other people are for the random "hey, there's Bizarro, let's all kill him" moments.  And speaking of which, I like how they smartly set up those Bounty quests.  I don't even think you need the quest in your journal.  You just start hitting on the target, and you get it automatically.  You also don't have to group.  If a few random strangers all start whooping up on Dr. Fate, all will get credit.  Cool feature.

I think this game is miles better than either CoH/CoV and CO.  Miles.

Longevity will indeed be the question.  Seems like an obvious FTP candidate.  At any rate, I think it will get my sub for a month or two...I'm slow getting through MMOs, and this is one where I fully intend to max level several alts (I can say the same thing for exactly zero other MMOs I've played).  Also, despite the Teen rating, I've decided to let my 8 year old have a go at it, and he loves it.

Also, most of you people (the dregs of humanity in general, not specifically F13) absolutely suck at creating characters.  Seriously, that's some boring ass shit you people come up with.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Khaldun on January 31, 2011, 10:25:36 AM
Doing hard mode alerts requires coordination, but yeah, they'll need a few things like that. PvP is so quick in its pacing that it's really just about zerging and button mashing most of the time--it would be interesting if there was a specialized PvP context where all powers did half the damage or something like that, so you'd have to really work together to win. (I haven't done Ring Wars yet, maybe that's like that? I dunno.)

The bounties remind me almost of ToonTown--you see someone whaling on Dr. Fate, just join in and everybody gets credit. I like that a lot.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 31, 2011, 02:51:38 PM
So, the game is still fun.  I think they have figured out something important here...it plays more like a single player game.  I wish more games were built with this in mind - make it a solid single player experience and include some of the better MMO mechanics.  The only real interactions I've had with other people are for the random "hey, there's Bizarro, let's all kill him" moments.  And speaking of which, I like how they smartly set up those Bounty quests.  I don't even think you need the quest in your journal.  You just start hitting on the target, and you get it automatically.  You also don't have to group.  If a few random strangers all start whooping up on Dr. Fate, all will get credit.  Cool feature.

I think this game is miles better than either CoH/CoV and CO.  Miles.

Longevity will indeed be the question.  Seems like an obvious FTP candidate.  At any rate, I think it will get my sub for a month or two...I'm slow getting through MMOs, and this is one where I fully intend to max level several alts (I can say the same thing for exactly zero other MMOs I've played).  Also, despite the Teen rating, I've decided to let my 8 year old have a go at it, and he loves it.

Also, most of you people (the dregs of humanity in general, not specifically F13) absolutely suck at creating characters.  Seriously, that's some boring ass shit you people come up with.

Yeah, I haven't grouped much either.. Only downside is that I haven't actually run the group focused instances. And my friends are kind of AWOL atm. On the upside, it still functions as a decent game despite that.

I might let it run out after the second month though, but I would have to come back if the Green Lantern expansion has more alien/space stuff.

Honestly - and people might hate hearing this - but this game would have probably had an entirely different feel if they didn't focus on it being a console title. I think that might have been their saving grace from "unconsciously" kind of falling back on the little practices and features that would just pile up into another Everquest.

edit: Yeah, there are some horrible characters unfortunately. I think the worst I saw was last night.. Some hulking dude named "cill shot" or something like that.. (lowercase as well). Not only was the name kind of sad, but the entire look.. he was just a mess.. I wonder how people even play a character like that. Maybe I take it too seriously though. I've been a little "lost in fantasy" since I was a kid. Maybe that guy does something more "productive" with his life.  8-)


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on January 31, 2011, 05:31:04 PM
The bounties remind me almost of ToonTown--you see someone whaling on Dr. Fate, just join in and everybody gets credit. I like that a lot.

That's new since beta (or added in the very last patch), where previously you needed the bounty for it to count and there were lots of complaints about people not getting the achievement despite being involved in the fight. A nice touch.

One thing that ChampO and DCUO have driven home to me is that you can't design the UI for a console title and a PC title at the same time. Especially when it means you screw up basic expected functionality on one, if not both, sides.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Strazos on January 31, 2011, 07:14:12 PM
How does the UI even function on the console side? How do people even communicate?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on January 31, 2011, 08:47:12 PM
You still need a keyboard to communicate. Personally, I don't use one, but I have one of those attachements that clips on the top of the gamepad if I need to say something. It's not great.. kind of like texting, I guess. Other than that, I may talk to friends on the phone.

A lot of people use headsets apparently. If I found a guild I liked, maybe I will too.

As for other UI stuff, there are keyboard shortcuts for things apparently, but I can access everything with a gamepad, and it's quick.. My hotkey bars are setup for group or dps setups, so I guess I have like 8 powers at a time. I press the right or left trigger +  O, X, Triangle, Square to fire them off. Weapon combat is button combos.. Hold down square is powered-up melee attack, hold down triangle is a charged up ranged attack.. Tap Square 5 times and then hold it is a stun grenade. Hold square/Tap Square/Hold Square is the bread and butter stun locking on my staff wielder. Pressing start brings up setting screens and such.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on February 01, 2011, 06:43:00 AM
You still need a keyboard to communicate.

There are a pretty decent number of set communication standards that you can use via a controller.  You find them in the emotes menu.  They won't allow you to do much more than bark out commands and respond to simple requests, but you can communicate (albeit archaicly) via controller.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on February 03, 2011, 06:06:23 AM
I'm happy for SOE to keep paying Blur to pump out trailers. (http://au.ign.com/videos/2011/02/01/dc-universe-online-the-second-blur-trailer?objectid=755358)

Ties in nicely to the previous Blur trailer too.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on February 03, 2011, 06:17:50 PM
Yeah, so my interest in this very suddenly dropped off a cliff.  I guess that's it. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Ginaz on February 03, 2011, 10:21:00 PM
Yeah, so my interest in this very suddenly dropped off a cliff.  I guess that's it. 

Same here.  I just can't justify paying a monthly sub.  Might be better to go the F2P route like LOTRO did.  I'd definitely keep playing if that happened.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: squirrel on February 04, 2011, 02:25:07 PM
 They've announced a time limited offer of 3 months for $30 for those who care.  (http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?topic_id=17698)


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on February 05, 2011, 08:38:55 AM
I'm pretty sure that DCUO doesn't have a test server, so the next bit of content - Catwoman's 9 time boss fight and turn your character into a Valentine's cherub - appears that it will go live without being tested.

Good times.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lucas on February 05, 2011, 02:12:38 PM
Harsh Review by Gamespy UK (2/5) :

http://uk.pc.gamespy.com/pc/dc-comics-mmo/1147072p1.html


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on February 05, 2011, 08:45:33 PM
Harsh Review by Gamespy UK (2/5) :

http://uk.pc.gamespy.com/pc/dc-comics-mmo/1147072p1.html

I'm having fun with this game but can't argue with the points in this article.  I have leveled both a hero and a villain to 30 and am getting bored quickly.  The quests get very similar after a while.  The combat is very chaotic and difficult to really enjoy some good strategic moments.  The endgame grind got very obvious to me after hitting cap.  I also agree that crappy targetting and the over abundance of CC really causes some frustration.  

I'd say that the game is a fun platformer and well worth 20-30 hrs of fun.  It's really not worth a subscription and barely worth the box cost (to me).  I'd recommend it as a buy when the price drops to $20 with a free month.  


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on February 05, 2011, 09:06:17 PM
This is the first time I've seen an SOE forum up close, so it's very interesting to me that criticism threads tend to be locked pretty soon after someone starts to troll, which saves the problem of actually having to answer the issue.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on February 05, 2011, 10:12:55 PM
Looking at these PvP exploit videos (http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/350/view/forums/thread/305936/My-Temporary-Hiatus-From-PvP-Videos-Included.html), I'd say that some of those complaints are exceptionally valid.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Morfiend on February 05, 2011, 11:56:02 PM
What is Frame Canceling they are constantly talking about?

It looks like somehow making a bunch of abilities hit all at once.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on February 06, 2011, 03:23:45 AM
They've announced a time limited offer of 3 months for $30 for those who care.  (http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?topic_id=17698)

Which is pretty much them admitting they do expect a lot of people to exhaust the content and unsubscribe 1-2 months after release.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Abelian75 on February 06, 2011, 06:57:27 AM
What is Frame Canceling they are constantly talking about?

It looks like somehow making a bunch of abilities hit all at once.

Sort of, yeah.  It's a term used in fighting games (or at least "cancel" is, and "hit frame", I don't know what "frame canceling" itself would mean, think that's just kind of a mashup).  Basically in a fighting game you might have a roundhouse kick that hits during frames 15-20, and ordinarily would last until frame 40 (I have just made these numbers up out of thin air, btw), so you end up having 20 "recovery frames."  However, there might be a certain move or set of moves (typically special moves or evasion moves) that can be executed at some point during the recovery period (or maybe even during the hit, or "active" period, like frame 18 perhaps), allowing you to essentially cram more attacks into a tiny period of time.  Also, sometimes the move you cancel into can actually be so quick compared to the move you canceled out of that it may even finish sooner than if you'd let the original attack continue to completion.  If you ever hear someone say "focus cancel" referring to SF4, this is often what they are talking about.  That game has "focus attacks" (which use a limited "focus" resource bar) that you can cancel into from other moves, but you can ALSO cancel out of the focus attack itself almost instantly by quickly double tapping in a direction (to dash that way), and THEN you can cancel out of the dash into a different attack.  Basically, canceling into focus attack and then into dash lands you in a state where you can now attack again, and you got there faster (often much faster) than you would have if you just let the original attack complete.  So you could say, do a kick, cancel into a focus attack, instantly cancel into a dash, and then cancel into a shoryuken or some shit.  It all happens absurdly fast if you watch someone badass who can do that shit reliably.

(Incidentally, if I sound like I'm talking down to you I apologize, probably this is not a new concept, but the technical terms and shit are possibly new)

Anyway, this game allows for something like that.  You can cancel out of your combos with a special attack (and possibly other shit, I'm not sure of the details), except from what I can tell you can cancel them at any time, even before the hit frames.  Yet your attack still lands even if you never see it hit.  Even aside from that obviously broken aspect (which seems fixable at least in the sense that you'd have to hack to do otherwise, though beyond that seems like it'd be hard to stop entirely), it's still a huge part of the game that peeps unfamiliar with fighting games might not think to try.  Certainly from what I could tell, the optimal way to play was to do a four-hit combo (or whatever) that ends with a big windup hit with a long recovery animation, cancel right after the last hit (during the long recovery period) into a special ability, which in most cases lets you use the special AND be free to move/attack again before you would have finished the original recovery animation.  I'm pretty sure that is actually intended behavior, and it has pretty huge implications.  It basically means that, used properly, special attacks (or "powers" or whatever they are called) don't just have no casting time, they have NEGATIVE casting time.  They both do damage and allow you to use MORE punches and kicks and shit than you would be able to use without specials.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Gunzwei on February 06, 2011, 08:31:11 AM
I'm pretty sure that DCUO doesn't have a test server, so the next bit of content - Catwoman's 9 time boss fight and turn your character into a Valentine's cherub - appears that it will go live without being tested.

Good times.

Having done both the raids zones currently in the game I'm fairly certain they didn't test much if at all. I found the -WE GOT RAIDZ- promo video pretty hilarious considering the very first raid boss in the game can currently be easily beaten by having the bridge in the corner tank it. It gets really bad when you realize that same boss is probably the 2nd hardest raid boss in the game. The hardest boss can actually "hit" you.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on February 06, 2011, 05:26:43 PM
DCUO had two betas - the friends-and-family-and-employees that morphed into the fans-who-went-to-conventions-for-the-code and the pre-order beta / beta sign-up (although it was mostly pre-order). The pre-order beta was bigger than the F'n'F.

Unless they relaxed it on the last day, the pre-order beta was only ever allowed to get to lvl 20, so couldn't do end-game content. The F'n'F beta had full game access with a lower player population and apparently contained a lot of players who would shout down any criticism. I wasn't in the F'n'F, just the pre-order beta, but I've heard that the end-game raids were only unlocked very late in the testing process before launch. So the Batcave was around, but not in the form you see at launch afaik.

PvP got some very late tweaks, when it was realised things like flagging someone for PvP because their AoE hit an opposing player was a bad idea because it was so easily exploitable. Or locating PvP objectives on the top of highly defensible tall buildings (where you could knock someone out of their travel power, have them fall, require them to get back up to the top, knock them out of it, etc) wasn't fun.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on February 07, 2011, 01:16:16 AM
DCUO simply cannot withstand hardcore gaming, it's a fun little game that would best work with micropayments.

MMO enthusiasts are like a swarm of locusts that devours everything in their path as fast as possible and then sits on the barren wasteland complaining about lack of content. I can't stand the mindset as it destroys everything I love about gaming, but at the same time game companies can only blame themselves when they try to woo that market and do not deliver content that fits.




Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on February 07, 2011, 04:14:35 AM
DCUO simply cannot withstand hardcore gaming, it's a fun little game that would best work with micropayments.

MMO enthusiasts are like a swarm of locusts that devours everything in their path as fast as possible and then sits on the barren wasteland complaining about lack of content. I can't stand the mindset as it destroys everything I love about gaming, but at the same time game companies can only blame themselves when they try to woo that market and do not deliver content that fits.


I can understand not liking the complaining, but realistically, what are you supposed to do?  I mean, I guess you could make some generalized argument like "people shouldn't spend so much time gaming that they can complete content so quickly" but at the same time, MMOs are SUPPOSED to be games you can play all the time.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: DLRiley on February 07, 2011, 06:16:55 AM
Correction subscription mmo's are mmo's you play all the time. The problem here is that people (speaking of hardcore gamers) burn through the content, get bored, unsubscribe. A free game has people (hardcore gamers) burning through the content and then spend money in order to grease their interest in the game.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on February 07, 2011, 07:03:55 AM
MMOs are SUPPOSED to be games you can play all the time.

Maybe this perception is part of the problem.  It has obviously proven very difficult to successfully create this kind of game.  I don't view DCUO as the "play all the time" sort of game.  I view it as a "play for a few hours every week to enjoy some of the PvP aspects" type game.  They've missed the mark for this a little by trying to cater to the hardcore crowd with raids and such and they screwed up the reimbursement model with a sub fee.  Still, part of the problem is that gamers expect every game to be superhardcore poopsocky like WoW and they won't have to be to be fun.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on February 07, 2011, 07:25:43 AM
MMOs are SUPPOSED to be games you can play all the time.

Maybe this perception is part of the problem.  It has obviously proven very difficult to successfully create this kind of game.  I don't view DCUO as the "play all the time" sort of game.  I view it as a "play for a few hours every week to enjoy some of the PvP aspects" type game.  They've missed the mark for this a little by trying to cater to the hardcore crowd with raids and such and they screwed up the reimbursement model with a sub fee.  Still, part of the problem is that gamers expect every game to be superhardcore poopsocky like WoW and they won't have to be to be fun.

DLRiley is right.  If you are charging me a subscription I shouldn't feel like the game is meant to be played "a few hours a week"


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: jakonovski on February 07, 2011, 07:26:38 AM
I can understand not liking the complaining, but realistically, what are you supposed to do?  I mean, I guess you could make some generalized argument like "people shouldn't spend so much time gaming that they can complete content so quickly" but at the same time, MMOs are SUPPOSED to be games you can play all the time.

I can think of two ways of creating content that can withstand the assault of MMOists: grind or pvp. If you're not looking for these, you're going to be disappointed.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: DLRiley on February 07, 2011, 07:36:31 AM
I can understand not liking the complaining, but realistically, what are you supposed to do?  I mean, I guess you could make some generalized argument like "people shouldn't spend so much time gaming that they can complete content so quickly" but at the same time, MMOs are SUPPOSED to be games you can play all the time.

I can think of two ways of creating content that can withstand the assault of MMOists: grind or pvp. If you're not looking for these, you're going to be disappointed.

Can't be grindier than WoW and hope to get business. PVP has yet to remove foot from ass as far as MMo-design is concerned.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on February 07, 2011, 07:44:14 AM
DLRiley is right.  If you are charging me a subscription I shouldn't feel like the game is meant to be played "a few hours a week"

Yeah, they didn't get that right at all.  Still, wait 6-12 months and it will probably change.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on February 07, 2011, 11:50:45 AM
DCUO simply cannot withstand hardcore gaming, it's a fun little game that would best work with micropayments.

MMO enthusiasts are like a swarm of locusts that devours everything in their path as fast as possible and then sits on the barren wasteland complaining about lack of content. I can't stand the mindset as it destroys everything I love about gaming, but at the same time game companies can only blame themselves when they try to woo that market and do not deliver content that fits.




I think it goes without mentioning that these games are probably a lot more impressive a year (or two) in or so anyways. It's rare that any of them come truly fleshed out from the get go. Even in the worst cases, I go in with that understanding.. that an MMO is always evolving. Where I usually criticize them is just the general "feel" on the fundamental feartures, etc.. And DCUO gets my vote on that shit. There's a lot of possibility in it. Not only because of the lore or because I'm a comic book fan, but who ever is behind the combat and whoever is crafting a lot of the content impresses me. They have a good team. As long as it stays in tact, the game will go in interesting directions.

Speaking of world building, last night I found a rabbit hole in the Watchtower, and ended up in space. I can't take any screenshots on the PS3, but I was kind of surprised that the Watchtower is an actual satellite. I could mention the detail in Gotham or something like that, but I thought this was cooler.. A lazy developer probably would have just made the Watchtower a skeletal outline of zones if looked from the outside, but not these guys.. they went all out. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on February 07, 2011, 06:33:07 PM
DLRiley is right.  If you are charging me a subscription I shouldn't feel like the game is meant to be played "a few hours a week"

Yeah, they didn't get that right at all.  Still, wait 6-12 months and it will probably change.

Which is why the sub fee model is in such trouble. If devs are expecting $15 a month to come through their door per player, it does them no good to see those players not sub after the first month as they all 'wait and see'.

If you can't compete against WoW as it stands right now, you can't charge like WoW as it does right now either. A B2P, DLC and no sub fee would have served DCUO a lot better (and better fit with PS3 player experience).


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on February 07, 2011, 06:44:08 PM

Sub-fee model is fine. It works well for a heavy-weight game with a lot of hardware and developer resources to fund. But the days in which you could expect to get that income stream for years for any multi-player online game you released are thankfully passed. Nor will players stay subbed while they enjoy the online community (It's just not novel anymore) and patiently wait for more content.

SOE knows all about free to play. They thought sub-fee was their best bet and that's their call. The wrong call, quite possibly, but one assumes they actually thought about their options.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on February 07, 2011, 07:11:22 PM
(It's just not novel anymore) and patiently wait for more content.

Actually, I'm a bit surprised how novel it is.. on the PS3 at least. Lots of newbs. And I either know this from hearing them say so in game or on the message boards.. the other thing is that there are a ton of people who seem to not even "get" the concept yet. Like it seems they're naming their characters after their own real full names (granted some of these are just character concepts with "proper" names, but it doesn't seem entirely the case). That or there are a lot of people with names like jedi02484. As if it's just a screen name they'd put anywhere else. Hell, they're not even close to "novel" even. They're just getting their feet wet.

What this has to do with subscription numbers..? Nothing. Just thought it was interesting.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on February 08, 2011, 08:01:29 AM
This cycle has happened several times now and people fail to 'get' the reasons.  No it's not the subscription fee, no it's not like of full perma death pvp, no its not the lack of player housing or crafting only classes.

The game is not well done, it's rare, medium at best.  Same with a handfull of other games that came out recently, they are being developed in a shoddy manner and it shows, subscriptions will reflect that.  Frame cancelling in an mmo, seriously? Sure this may have done better as a micro transaction game but that does mean a monthly sub mmo is doomed to fail, it just means no one has made a good enough one yet.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Khaldun on February 08, 2011, 10:20:50 AM
I think the thing that's so frustrating is that a better game is plausible. There's no point in talking about MMOs that are purely shoddy.

I think the basic puzzle that a new sub-based MMO, if it's not aiming for a Cryptic-style "box sales + two months subs then FTP and medium-term death" business model, has got to solve at launch is:

a) How to generate new content relatively rapidly, say a 'dungeon' once a month. Given DCUO's relatively simple 'dungeon' content, this is not impossible to imagine. Then on a parallel track, you'd be working on an xpac that was more substantial.
b) How to have some kind of satisfying PvP endgame that will keep people amused, probably on a twitch model rather than a grind model, while content is generated.
or
c) How to have a dynamic, procedurally generated world.

C) is way way harder and probably not appropriate to a licensed property. But if you can't solve the puzzle of a) or b), you really should not launch as sub-based unless this is strictly the Cryptic "take the money and run" strategy. For a MMO where the intellectual property holder plainly would like the MMO to serve as a serious vehicle for promoting their property, that's a bad idea.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnsGub on February 08, 2011, 11:26:24 AM
has got to solve at launch is:

a) How to generate new content relatively rapidly, say a 'dungeon' once a month. Given DCUO's relatively simple 'dungeon' content, this is not impossible to imagine. Then on a parallel track, you'd be working on an xpac that was more substantial.

It has been solved.  Unsure why others cannot repeat it.  Two expanpansions a year and 17 over ten years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest#Expansions
 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest#Expansions)


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on February 08, 2011, 02:07:57 PM
This cycle has happened several times now and people fail to 'get' the reasons.  No it's not the subscription fee, no it's not like of full perma death pvp, no its not the lack of player housing or crafting only classes.

The game is not well done, it's rare, medium at best.  Same with a handfull of other games that came out recently, they are being developed in a shoddy manner and it shows, subscriptions will reflect that.  Frame cancelling in an mmo, seriously? Sure this may have done better as a micro transaction game but that does mean a monthly sub mmo is doomed to fail, it just means no one has made a good enough one yet.

Hmm.. I don't think I'd call this shoddy at all. In more abstract ways it is, like with class/pvp/raid issues, but that stuff always gets worked out. I think it's pretty obvious  though that there is some kind of psychotic OCD developer running the actual content and art design areas. I mean, flying around Gotham is more on the side of impressive than anything gives me thought that it's "shoddy".

I'm going to sound like a fanboy, and I don't mean to be, but you guys are a tough crowd. Ridiculously so. What do you want any of these games to be? None of them are going to be WoW killers any time, for sure. So stop talking about and stop expecting it from anywhere. Ironically, people have plenty to bitch about WoW too. Nothing seems to be good enough, whether the game is modest or enormously successful. There's always some problem. I'd just say to have whatever fun you can get out of them and move on. There are so many games around to occupy the void that it's ridiculous.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Khaldun on February 08, 2011, 02:15:57 PM
has got to solve at launch is:

a) How to generate new content relatively rapidly, say a 'dungeon' once a month. Given DCUO's relatively simple 'dungeon' content, this is not impossible to imagine. Then on a parallel track, you'd be working on an xpac that was more substantial.

It has been solved.  Unsure why others cannot repeat it.  Two expanpansions a year and 17 over ten years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest#Expansions
 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest#Expansions)

Yeah, man, I know.

Asheron's Call also managed this trick for quite a while. Without selling xpacs, actually.

Turbine even now does a decent job for an underresourced studio at pushing content.

So the interesting question is still, "Why are MMOs getting worse at this rather than better"? I think part of it is that there was less hesitancy to push out something that might be exploited or be unbalanced in early MMOs. Obviously the art resources were easier to handle, and probably the code base as well. I dunno.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on February 08, 2011, 05:38:15 PM
The fact that no game has even attempted to be a wow killer is part of their failure. I'm not saying that anything can be a wow killer but you don't make a game and aim for second place.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on February 08, 2011, 09:56:08 PM
Have you missed the last five years?  A lot of games thought they'd be the WoW killer.  Their hubris didn't let them see they couldn't manage to be an already dead EQ killer, but they thought they could do it.

The problem, as always, is that they were competing against a giant without taking stock of what their actual capabilities were.  Strive to make a good product.  Don't worry so much about the other guy beyond asking what he did right and what he did wrong.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on February 09, 2011, 06:01:54 AM
Actually no, I've been paying attention and WAR at its best said they were shooting at what 3mil subs total? None of these games are trying to dethrone wow, they are all trying to steal breadcrumbs.

I'm not saying any of these games had a chance in hell of being number one but they all went in with the philosophy of "well we can be a solid 2!"


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on February 09, 2011, 03:41:46 PM
I don't know what modern EQ expansions look like. But the ones that came out when I was playing EQ would barely count as content now. They were simplistic in terms of simple maps sprinkled with mobs, no quests, no new mechanics and relatively simple raid mechanics. In WoW that would just get laughed at.

But I wonder if that's not the difference. A game that wants to be a DCUO "console style action-RPG", which modern WoW is actually getting close to in some ways, sets up huge expectations of the rate in which content will be consumed and the quality of it. An older style MMO where it is a world rather than a theme park smaller changes and content that is more gradually consumed (such as triggered by exploration or dynamic events) is more likely to be sustainable. Slow versus fast burn content I guess. Though if you want mass market, WoW style numbers, and the development budget that goes with it you are probably forced to provide flashy graphics and rich content.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on February 09, 2011, 06:18:18 PM
Don't worry so much about the other guy beyond asking what he did right and what he did wrong.

They clearly don't do this, particularly the "wrong" part.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Khaldun on February 10, 2011, 10:47:26 AM
Most of these games trying to be WoW killers was amusingly stupid since what they ended up building were underresourced, underdeveloped versions of WoW. It hasn't been David vs. Goliath, it's been Goliath vs. mini-Goliath. You want to kill WoW, you need to pack a slingshot that aims straight at its vulnerabilities.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Typhon on February 10, 2011, 11:31:22 AM
[snip]
I'm going to sound like a fanboy, and I don't mean to be, but you guys are a tough crowd. Ridiculously so. What do you want any of these games to be? None of them are going to be WoW killers any time, for sure. So stop talking about and stop expecting it from anywhere. Ironically, people have plenty to bitch about WoW too. Nothing seems to be good enough, whether the game is modest or enormously successful. There's always some problem. I'd just say to have whatever fun you can get out of them and move on. There are so many games around to occupy the void that it's ridiculous.

I've been feeling like this as well for awhile.  When did f13 become a forum for people who hate games?  Wasn't the hate supposed to be for games that had no redeeming qualities?  Or for developers who had managed to produce a game that was close to being awesome, but who put their own ego's above fun?  When did everything become so binary - it's either robot Jesus or complete crap.  When did successfully doomcasting a game become more enjoyable than playing a game and having a bit of fun?  When did not successfully doomcasting a game instigate a campaign of hate to prove that the game really does suck? 

My understanding is that DCUO is Sony's number one selling game of all time and that they were having problems keeping it in stock.  That sounds like a successful game to me.

To give credit where credit is due:

I thought this was going to be absolutely awful so I'll man up and eat crow on this one. From what I understand it's pretty decent. It looked like the worst game at E3 (or second-worst behind Crackdown 2) so they really must have busted their asses to get it into shape.

I have a lot of respect for that post.  I didn't really follow this game because my true love is Marvel comics but it did sound like it was going to be a train wreck.  My impression of the way they handled the beta (super-sekret mode!) made it seem especially suspect.

:uhrr:  which makes me wonder if all of you are the same, but maybe I've changed?  Am I too easy on games now?  Am I less bitter than when I first joined?  Dammit which is it?!

...  :grin:

It just occurred to me that none of that matters and that I should be happy that I have somehow managed to keep my love for games.  And that fast, I am happy!


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Rasix on February 10, 2011, 11:35:36 AM
I'll quote someone else in response to that post, since it seems fitting given the tone of the quote and tone of the reply.

"Welcome to the internet, pussy."


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on February 10, 2011, 11:39:35 AM
.  When did f13 become a forum for people who hate games? 

When we all realized our best gaming days were behind us.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on February 10, 2011, 11:40:57 AM
I think this game is fun for what it is: log on and blow stuff up for an hour before getting bored (and/or getting carpel tunnel).   Even just flying around hunting for ? can be a nice way to blow an hour.  If you start to treat it as an achievement game, it gets old VERY fast. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on February 10, 2011, 11:44:56 AM
I think this game is fun for what it is: log on and blow stuff up for an hour before getting bored (and/or getting carpel tunnel).   Even just flying around hunting for ? can be a nice way to blow an hour.  If you start to treat it as an achievement game, it gets old VERY fast. 

This type of game is absolutely not a bad thing, because you could come back to it in a few months and enjoy it again, presumably without having to grind up 10 levels and get super re-geared to have fun.  They have the wrong payment model for this type of game though. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on February 10, 2011, 12:11:25 PM
When did f13 become a forum for people who hate games?
I've seen people point out both the good and bad, of all games here, so I don't know what you're on about.  There might be a couple of posters that do nothing but negativity, no silver lining ever, but they're called on it.  (See Rift for the clearest example.)

The one bad point that sticks out is the obvious one, which is that it probably should have been a pay model other than subscription.  While negative, it's also constructive in trying to point out an alternative.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: HaemishM on February 10, 2011, 12:23:57 PM
.  When did f13 become a forum for people who hate games? 

When we all realized our best gaming days were behind us.

I disagree with that. There are games I am having as much fun with as in the olden days. I only long for more time with those games.

But if you talk about MMOG's? Yeah, I think the negativity in the MMOG sector is so heavy because WoW was the last great MMOG. Everything else has been a colossal clusterfuck. When the two best non-WoW MMOG's are both F2P (EQ2 and LotRO) despite there having been a few big releases after them, you know something's wrong. Money is getting poured into MMOG's and being spent by consumers, but I can't reasonably say the medium has improved all that much since EQ1.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Ingmar on February 10, 2011, 01:40:26 PM

So the interesting question is still, "Why are MMOs getting worse at this rather than better"? I think part of it is that there was less hesitancy to push out something that might be exploited or be unbalanced in early MMOs. Obviously the art resources were easier to handle, and probably the code base as well. I dunno.


They're getting worse at it because content is more complicated to create now. You can't just add a zone, sprinkle it with 5000 mobs and call it a day.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on February 10, 2011, 01:44:17 PM
With some of the shit they put out they might have a better response just to choose that option, Ingmar. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Amaron on February 10, 2011, 06:32:47 PM
They have the wrong payment model for this type of game though. 

I don't know as I agree.   The console angle makes F2P of any kind sort of risky as it's very untested ground.  Lots of people consider this sort of content very worthwhile of a cheap monthly sub.   If they can push out the content and keep their subs up via the console then they're far better off just ignoring the F2P crowd.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Evildrider on February 10, 2011, 06:59:47 PM
Sooo I picked this up like a week ago and I already have no interest in logging in.   :ye_gods:

It has some novelty to it, that made me play it hard core for a day, then my enthusiasm just went downhill.  I was kind of looking for a side game that i could play when I get bored with WoW.  This obviously wasn't it. 

It has some potential but overall it was another letdown.  Overall I don't know what happened to MMO's.  It makes me sad that for years I was able to find other stuff to play besides WoW, but its where I keep ending up now.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on February 10, 2011, 08:09:01 PM
My understanding is that DCUO is Sony's number one selling game of all time and that they were having problems keeping it in stock.  That sounds like a successful game to me.

SOE was clever in promoting this and most games sites were happy to post Smedley's tweet as a news article.

DCUO is more than likely SOE's fastest selling title of all time (at least in its launch week) because it launched on the PC and PS3 at the same time. To date, it looks like DCUO has sold about 250k - 300k on each platform. You double your number of platforms, you can certainly increase the speed of sales. (Oh, and about two-thirds of its PC sales came from digital distribution.)

Regarding keeping it in stock: anecdotally SOE didn't ship that many copies (and they may have found it hard to, given it went gold right after Xmas and was into stores in early January). Other circumstantial evidence exists that DCUO was originally planned to ship in February, but made a late change to January.

I've said that DCUO is fun, but it isn't worth $15 a month. On top of that, SOE has made a number of basic, basic mistakes - god awful chat functionality, simple PvP exploits, etc - and despite having a short levelling curve fail to have a wide variety of things for players to do at max level. Five years of development and US$50m+ in development on a title that looks to be losing most of its players in less than a month.

And then there has been dev videos with statements like, "It wouldn't be the DC Universe without secret identities, so hypothetically yes, there will be secret identities in-game" that appear about a month before DCUO hits pre-order beta, only for the game to ship without secret identities (or a trade channel, or an auction house, etc etc).

I still love games, but the above is plenty of reasons to watch a car accident that could have long-term impacts on how the industry sees console MMOs.

What do I want from a sub-based MMO? For it to be worth the sub fee.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: DLRiley on February 10, 2011, 08:45:55 PM
They have the wrong payment model for this type of game though. 

I don't know as I agree.   The console angle makes F2P of any kind sort of risky as it's very untested ground.  Lots of people consider this sort of content very worthwhile of a cheap monthly sub.   If they can push out the content and keep their subs up via the console then they're far better off just ignoring the F2P crowd.

Which is bigger and pays more money.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Amaron on February 11, 2011, 01:52:32 AM
and pays more money.

Only if you include the people who enjoy pay to win games.   That section of the F2P market isn't courtable in this case. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: HaemishM on February 11, 2011, 11:08:39 AM
There are numerous examples of successful F2P MMOG's that aren't pay to win games.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Amaron on February 14, 2011, 09:36:03 AM
There are numerous examples of successful F2P MMOG's that aren't pay to win games.

That's out of context to my reply.   He said the F2P market was "bigger" which is utter nonsense (in the context of games like DCUO) if you compare it by monetary values.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on February 14, 2011, 01:06:48 PM
Eliminate WoW, which is an outlier of all sorts, and try again.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Amaron on February 14, 2011, 01:18:50 PM
Eliminate WoW, which is an outlier of all sorts, and try again.

I actually WAS eliminating WoW and all the pay 2 win cash shop ones which can not possibly be used for a DC property.

Seriously how many real F2P does that leave?  Lotro, DDO, EQ2 (sort of).   You can add Anarchy Online but that's just an extended free trial when looking at it from the perspective of money.

I really like the DDO model and think it's probably the wave of the future but it's not BIGGER than subscriptions yet (even with WoW excluded).


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: DLRiley on February 14, 2011, 04:01:56 PM
Lolz. Than do a simple math equation count the number of F2P mmo's that have stayed running for 3 years tops and has a regularly updated front page. Or http://gigaom.com/2009/02/01/top-10-money-making-mmos-2008/


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on February 14, 2011, 04:49:03 PM
Seriously how many real F2P does that leave?  Lotro, DDO, EQ2 (sort of).   You can add Anarchy Online but that's just an extended free trial when looking at it from the perspective of money.
What pay-to-play games does it leave?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on February 14, 2011, 06:49:19 PM
I really like the DDO model and think it's probably the wave of the future but it's not BIGGER than subscriptions yet (even with WoW excluded).

I guess you just mean "in the west", because F2P worldwide is more than likely bigger than sub2P.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: DLRiley on February 15, 2011, 03:01:04 AM
Funny exercise; Go to Gamestop or Target and check on the "prepaid cards section" you'll see prepaid cards for WoW and prepaid cards for companies based in South Korea  :drill:, just pick any random dozen whose company name you don't know. They sell maple story points in rite aid btw.

 http://news.mmosite.com/content/2010-06-12/study_reveals_top_10_money_making_mmos_in_2009_5_made_in_china,1.shtml


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on February 15, 2011, 07:43:33 AM
Didn't last the first month. 

Fun blow-em-up-game, but no stick to it.  Level up to cap and as a reward, you get to solo/duo the same dungeons for dailies.  I may go back when an expansion comes out just to play another month. 

Biggest gripes:

Targeting is terrible. 
Too much CC
Poor explanations of abilities and stats
Gear skins are pretty uninspired.  Sad when you miss COH.
Too much repetitive content

Enjoy:
Getting a travel power at level 1.
Immersion into the DC world. 
The city is fun to look around.
Fast pace (ruined by shitty targeting and lag that kills combos)

This game may be worth another look in a few months after some fixes and an expansion.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: sam, an eggplant on February 15, 2011, 09:11:55 AM
You made it to the level cap, which takes around 30 hours in DCUO, so you got value for your fifty bucks. Unsubscribe for now, then if/when they add new content think about resubbing.

Call me crazy, but that sounds like a very civilized way to handle a MMO.

They're leaving money on the table so this state of events obviously wasn't deliberate, but for me at least, the complete lack of poopsock makes the game infinitely sexier.



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on February 15, 2011, 09:26:05 AM
You made it to the level cap, which takes around 30 hours in DCUO, so you got value for your fifty bucks. Unsubscribe for now, then if/when they add new content think about resubbing.

Call me crazy, but that sounds like a very civilized way to handle a MMO.

They're leaving money on the table so this state of events obviously wasn't deliberate, but for me at least, the complete lack of poopsock makes the game infinitely sexier.

I wasn't complaining.  I enjoyed the trip to cap as both a hero and a villain (and I stated so much earlier in the thread).  You're exactly correct that today's MMO's are little more than a single player game with other people.  Dragon Age lasted me about the same number of hours as DCUO and didn't require a subscription. 

I'll go back when they have an expansion assuming that I get a free month with it. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on February 15, 2011, 09:59:47 AM


They're leaving money on the table so this state of events obviously wasn't deliberate, but for me at least, the complete lack of poopsock makes the game infinitely sexier.



I think I may be broken, but I have to admit that even though I don't have the time to play the amount of hours I used to in any game, there is still something about the ability of someone to spend insane amounts of time in an MMO an not max out on it that lures me in.  Granted, what MMOs do I currently have installed on my machine...lets check it out.  1) WoW: Cataclysm 2) Global Agenda 3) Champions Online 4) World War 2 Online.  Granted, I haven't actually been playing much Champions but its free to play so I'm leaving it installed.  WW2O i unsubbed at the end of last month  also but its stills omething I played recently at least).   Soooooo I guess in practice I'm closer to the kind of casual person I always bitch about  :ye_gods: :ye_gods:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on February 15, 2011, 01:53:57 PM
Dragon Age lasted me about the same number of hours as DCUO and didn't require a subscription. 


Yeah, but did you actually pay any sub with DCUO, or just use the "free" month?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on February 15, 2011, 02:25:09 PM
Yeah, but did you actually pay any sub with DCUO, or just use the "free" month?

Just used the free month.  I thought that was my point.  The game lacks the content to be fun beyond one month. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on February 15, 2011, 10:05:38 PM
DCUO launched a trailer to say the first content patch was coming on the 15th. It's been delayed until sometime this week... possibly.

Not a great first impression of DCUO's commitment to monthly content patching.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Sir T on February 16, 2011, 01:30:19 AM
I would imagine that patching in content across multiple platforms is quite complicated.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Typhon on February 16, 2011, 04:59:24 AM
Actually, I would expect the first 3 patches (at least) to fuck things up significantly if virtually every other MMO launch to date precedence holds.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on February 16, 2011, 06:38:49 AM
Yeah, but did you actually pay any sub with DCUO, or just use the "free" month?

Just used the free month.  I thought that was my point.  The game lacks the content to be fun beyond one month. 

Ah, okay.  Well, you got about the same entertainment value out of both Dragon Age and DCUO for the same price.  That's not awful.  I've always found it interesting that gamers (and please don't think I'm attributing this opinion to you in this case) will expect to pay for a game and a sub fee and it is magically going to be fun forever, even with the inevitable repetition.  Even though I didn't last past the first month in DCUO either, I'm still going to call it enjoyable because I did get a fair amount of entertainment value out of it in that first month. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: statisticalfool on February 16, 2011, 10:45:34 AM
I think the problems with the "fun for one month" MMO model:
  • It's a 'pay $60 for a rental' model. You end up with a paperweight after a month.
  • The anxiety of 'getting your money's worth' makes the way you play it less fun.
  • People do actually want the kind of game where you can keep on going back to it. Maybe not all games can sustain 20 hrs/week of play without repetition. But don't charge a sub fee and then not back it up.


 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on February 16, 2011, 05:56:05 PM
I would imagine that patching in content across multiple platforms is quite complicated.

Possibly, but don't promise a date then.  :grin:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Strazos on February 16, 2011, 08:25:41 PM
Unsubbed. I generally liked my characters, but friends didn't have time to play, combat was spammy with poor feedback. Perhaps I'll check back late this year.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Gunzwei on February 16, 2011, 09:33:54 PM
Unsubbed myself. Fun for a month but considering CoX/CO are both more developed and Rift coming out soon it's hard to justify keeping a sub up.



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Amaron on February 16, 2011, 09:50:20 PM
I really like the DDO model and think it's probably the wave of the future but it's not BIGGER than subscriptions yet (even with WoW excluded).

F2P worldwide is more than likely bigger than sub2P.

DDO model is F2P the revrese is not true.   Are there some asian mmo's that follow the DDO model?  I didn't know that if true.   All the big ones like Perfect World, Runes of Magic, etc are still P2Win model.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on February 16, 2011, 10:41:14 PM

Zero Punctuation (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2757-DC-Universe-Online) review.

Not a bad one as it discusses some general and specific game mechanics in the process of skewering it.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on February 23, 2011, 05:06:11 PM
DCUO's first content patch went live. Lacking any player testing before it went live, paying players are discovering certain patch notes are wrong / didn't happen and that a number of stealth changes have been made. It seems that one of the stealth changes ended up deleting certain items out of player inventories without restitution, or changed powers without always refunding the character points invested.

In content terms, it looks like the Valentine's Day mission for heroes was broken at launch, with heroes often unable to collect hearts.

Best bug still in DCUO? Using certain powers from the Gadges powerset in PvP arenas crashes players out of the game.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Pagz on February 24, 2011, 03:20:19 AM
Quote from: DC Patch Notes
*Trigon’s Blood - The wheelchairs throughout the instance will no longer explode.
I thought that was a weird hospital  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Gunzwei on February 24, 2011, 07:19:08 AM
Best bug still in DCUO? Using certain powers from the Gadges powerset in PvP arenas crashes players out of the game.

The power that does this will crash the client in any instance (duos, alers, raids, or arena). The patch as a whole is a complete mess. Nature DPS is broken, some weapon combos do zero damage because of the frame canceling changes, and the AH has been eating some players items.

Also Chris Cao, DCUO Game Director, has been doing a series of interviews with PC Gamer http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/02/23/dc-universe-online-interview-part-3-characters-and-heroes/ (http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/02/23/dc-universe-online-interview-part-3-characters-and-heroes/) with such gems of insight such as how to RP superman by taking the ice powerset and not using any of its powers (which would result in a severely gimped character).


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kodan on February 24, 2011, 01:37:32 PM
Well they lost me completely as a customer today.. In a way I am glad they did since they saved me the $200 I was seriously considering giving them for Lifetime. I had a quest issue and according to their policy they can advance quests that are bugged yet they refuse to do so. I expect a modicum of support from something I am paying for. I should have known that it was SOE and that they would break more with the patch and then leave us hanging for weeks while they break something else for us to wait for fixes on with that fix patch...


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on February 24, 2011, 06:01:32 PM

SOE finds that trying to do rapid content development means the content tends to be buggy and untested. Further insights on the blindingly obvious expected later.

Seriously, SOE are hopeless.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on February 24, 2011, 06:12:24 PM
I've seen a number of die-hard defenders of DCUO say they are quitting after this patch. PvP exploits are still rampant - there's an Ice Bash bug that sees a 3x damage effect linger after PC death in PvP, resulting in multiple insta-kills on respawn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEu6HIzoNBA) - and the patch brought in things guaranteed to see players quit, like T1 / T2 items disappearing (so all that PvP farming disappears) or items vanishing in the auction house.

EDIT: And as Kageru states, SOE is yet to field a DCUO test server. It's hilarious to read the PC Gamer interview where Cao goes on about "quality, not quantity".


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on February 24, 2011, 07:49:24 PM

Looking for some fireworks on the forums but I guess they're heavy on the moderation.

Did see this beauty, "so US 1 month sub is 14.99USD and AU 1 month is 19.99AUD". They're charging Australians 5$ USD (dollars roughly at parity) extra a month for an identical service? Sort of glad I had no interest in playing it.



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on February 25, 2011, 12:12:20 AM
It's actually $5 to play a worse service, since we've obviously got greater lag, plus SOE uses Australian peak times to take the server down for maintenance.

Oh, and NZ is allowed to pay US$15 a month to play, but Australia doesn't get that option - it's a forced $AU20 option (which equates to a US$20 option).

On a pure conversion rate though, we are paying less than Sweden.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: ghost on February 25, 2011, 07:26:44 AM
It's actually $5 to play a worse service, since we've obviously got greater lag, plus SOE uses Australian peak times to take the server down for maintenance.

Oh, and NZ is allowed to pay US$15 a month to play, but Australia doesn't get that option - it's a forced $AU20 option (which equates to a US$20 option).

On a pure conversion rate though, we are paying less than Sweden.

It's just another part of the punishment for whatever evil pact you guys made with Satan.  Australia's due some good luck soon. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: climbjtree on March 24, 2011, 12:46:42 PM
Any chance anyone's got a buddy key they'd like to give out? I'm interested in the game, but not full price interested.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on March 24, 2011, 02:12:56 PM
I've been keeping my eye on this game and am surprised that so little has been done by the developers to address the obvious flaws in targeting and the UI.  Is anyone playing currently that can speak to the recent updates for the PC version?  Has it improved much since release? 

DCUO is a fun game that I enjoyed for a few weeks in a "blow shit up for an hour" kind of way.  If they can improve the stickiness of it, particularly for duos, I may go back and give it some more money. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Venkman on March 24, 2011, 04:03:03 PM
Yea that's where I netted out. The combat and travel powers are fun and the world somewhat interesting for explorers (though CoH felt much more like an alive city). And leveling speed makes WoW look like EQ1 pre-Kunark.

But the crazy balancing, the wierd ignored bugs, and the general lack of interesting story for an MMO based on such strong IP, eh.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Khaldun on March 24, 2011, 05:44:41 PM
Think I'm done. Gave it a shot, took time off. Was fun, but this is the problem: the fun that underdeveloped subscription MMOs deliver comes at a premium price and has more of a letdown than the fun of non-subscription games.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on March 24, 2011, 06:35:59 PM
I've been keeping my eye on this game and am surprised that so little has been done by the developers to address the obvious flaws in targeting and the UI.  Is anyone playing currently that can speak to the recent updates for the PC version?  Has it improved much since release? 

I'm not playing, just watching the forums.

Some things are fixed, but those fixes then break other things. Reports are that the PC servers are generally low population while the PS3 servers are at least mid-population.

The chat system is meant to be getting some tweaks in this update, which would have been called the March update, but SOE have all but admitted it probably won't launch in March and they can no longer meet the promise of monthly content updates. As an indication of the difference between planning and reality, this update includes the St Patrick's Day event that may start in April.

PvP exploits still exist, although a number have been patched out.

Content-wise since launch has seen some raids added (all in the Batcave), existing content repurposed for Duos / Hard versions and the Catwoman mission. Next update includes a Two-Face mission (that is meant to contain some kind of internal map randomisation effect - a coin flip dictates paths through - that could make it interesting for a while).

Why the issues?

My guess is that even SOE is finding it very, very hard to develop for both PC and PS3. It seems like the bigger hold up is on the PS3 side. For years I'd thought that it would be possible to develop a PC and console MMO that could stand side-by-side, but DCUO has proven that wrong.

The other issue is DCUO didn't sell particularly well on a per platform basis - likely less than 400k on each platform and the PC players aren't hanging around. It wasn't the hit SOE wanted, which can then impact on resources allocated to updates.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Venkman on March 25, 2011, 08:23:37 AM
Console MMOs are technical challenges for sure; however, I've always felt the bigger problem is the market.

Over the last 10+ years, MMOs have created a unqiue specific player type. MMO players will definitely play other games/genres/platforms. But other gamers will not definitely play MMOs. They're a different type of game that isn't nearly as mass market as other games.WoW does not disprove this rule. If anything, it really just shows how well Blizzard capitalizes(ed) on their unique competitive advantages.

The few MMOs on consoles haven't been wildly successful enough to compel more. That market doesn't automatically exist like it does on PCs. As such, it's also not understood what a console gamer wants in a persistent online world like it is for a PC (and even after 30+ iterations on the same core concept, it's still often debated even for the PC).

So the few tries at this have largely been about porting a PC MMO to a console UI. None of them have been as good as a normal console game that well understands its market.

It's good that companies keep trying. And to an outsider, SOE would seem to have a lot of edge here. But divisions in large companies don't automatically benefit from a shared name. And no well-documented/ understood/ socialized SDK in the world is going to solve for market realities.

On the PC side, DCUO also targeted a younger player for a market that skews older. It's something of a Free Realms/ Clone Wars Adventures problem. Ya really can't make a big-IP MMO and not expect your first beta players to be core MMO enthusiasts. And you don't want to anyway because the core MMO player has the cash and is willing to spend it in the hopes this time there's a good alternative to the dominating game of the day.

DCUO doesn't have enough compelling content for the market that most often sticks around.

tl;dr DCUO's problems seem rooted in chasing an unproven market.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: HaemishM on March 25, 2011, 12:07:56 PM
My guess is that even SOE is finding it very, very hard to develop for both PC and PS3. It seems like the bigger hold up is on the PS3 side. For years I'd thought that it would be possible to develop a PC and console MMO that could stand side-by-side, but DCUO has proven that wrong.

It's certainly proven that SOE can't do it.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Hutch on May 02, 2011, 08:16:28 AM
Sony merging DCUO into four servers. (http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/05/01/dc-universe-online-moving-to-super-servers/)

Sony is calling it "Super Servers".  :oh_i_see:

The link goes to an article at Massively. I'd link to DC Universe Online, or Sony, but, well, those sites are down.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on May 02, 2011, 06:21:16 PM
The DCUO forums (when up) are a sad place to visit. Lots of arguments about the PC population being too low to support the game versus those who say that DC is a big budget MMO and every new MMO sees a little drop off post-launch.

The PSN issues are also kicking the PS3 side of the game, which was performing better than the PC. It's currently a group of first time MMO players experience of paying a sub fee for a game that they can't even log into. It's the true PC experience on the PS3.  :grin:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Tannhauser on May 02, 2011, 06:41:34 PM
Hell, I was doing that way back in UO, welcome to the jungle baybee!

I do hope they straighten this game out, I'd like to try it sometime.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Hawkbit on May 02, 2011, 06:42:50 PM
I'm holding out hope for a $20 game with a free month.  I'd love to check it out, just not worth $50 for me.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Pendan on May 03, 2011, 08:56:51 AM
The PSN issues have spread to the SOE PC games now. All of them shut down. As for the server merge in DCUO, I have not heard how they will be handling PvP. I had heard PvP servers were previously more popular than PvE but if everyone on one server what happens?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Draegan on May 03, 2011, 09:08:20 AM
Its a shame, this game is really worth the box for a week or two of good gameplay. 

It's definitely not worth a sub and more than a month of playing though.  Unless you like alts and repeating content.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on May 03, 2011, 06:02:36 PM
Reputedly PvP died hard in terms of popularity due to the exploits, unbalanced powers and then stealth / undocumented stealth power changes SOE implemented. There are still people playing it, but you need to cheat to win. Allegedly.

If DCUO goes F2P, it will recover, but it isn't worth an ongoing sub fee, especially since SOE's launch promise of "new content every month, guaranteed!" became "new content every 4 - 6 weeks, approximately, but don't hold us to that". DCUO's Easter event still doesn't have a launch date (and the truth is the last thing DCUO needs is temporary event content - it needs more permanent, replayable content).


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Venkman on May 03, 2011, 08:39:00 PM
Lost a lot of notes over the years. Is this the fastest server merge in MMO history? Or did that go to WAR?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kail on May 03, 2011, 08:59:57 PM
Lost a lot of notes over the years. Is this the fastest server merge in MMO history? Or did that go to WAR?

I think Auto Assault was faster?  Something like live in April, mergers in July, or something like that, unless I'm confusing things.  WAR had something like six months, I think.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on May 03, 2011, 10:43:54 PM
If that's the case, I bet Rift wins.  The game relies on population for core gameplay and the populations on many servers are pretty low after just 2 months.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nija on May 04, 2011, 06:46:51 AM
So many issues could be prevented by using a single shared server model. Not sure why people don't do that. You'd have to allow for non-unique player names and have unique account aliases that could be used for messaging.

I mean, everyone instances something at some point so why not defeat all of the issues that crop up when you have a lack of population in one fell swoop.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on May 04, 2011, 06:58:34 AM
That worked very well for Champions Online. Even when player population was very low, the instanced environments still looked pretty busy.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on May 04, 2011, 07:22:47 AM
That worked very well for Champions Online. Even when player population was very low, the instanced environments still looked pretty busy.

Yeah, and it scales really well.  I played a bit of it when it went to free to play and the population seemed really high (comparable to the game's initial release almost).  I have some problems with the model, but if your game world doesn't matter anyway, there's no shame in it. (No one REALLY cares that there are 14 millenium cities, since you can't affect those zones anyway, and it does mean that the public quests with longer cool downs can be done more often.)


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on May 04, 2011, 08:12:46 AM
That's the one thing I'll give Champions credit for.  Single-server while allowing multiple user names was a great move.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Xanthippe on May 04, 2011, 08:17:33 AM
So many issues could be prevented by using a single shared server model. Not sure why people don't do that. You'd have to allow for non-unique player names and have unique account aliases that could be used for messaging.

I mean, everyone instances something at some point so why not defeat all of the issues that crop up when you have a lack of population in one fell swoop.


I'm not a big fan of that, because the more people you have playing together, the less community matters.  I'd rather see discrete servers, allow transfers and, when necessary, merge servers, than have one huge server.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Rasix on May 04, 2011, 08:22:21 AM
If that's the case, I bet Rift wins.  The game relies on population for core gameplay and the populations on many servers are pretty low after just 2 months.

I think it was inevitable after they had to pump up the servers numbers so much during the launch.  While it helped stabilize short term server pops, there was just no way they'd keep full.  Heavy post launch contraction has happened to everyone since WoW launched.



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Draegan on May 04, 2011, 08:33:47 AM
Rift servers are not that bad at all.  At least, all the EU servers are at medium right now.  US ones are down for a patch right now.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on May 04, 2011, 08:42:26 AM
Rift servers are not that bad at all.  At least, all the EU servers are at medium right now.  US ones are down for a patch right now.

What does "medium" mean, exactly?  I can't find anything that defines the Trion server load metric. 

I can tell you as someone that plays on two different servers at endgame that there are real population differences between US servers.  The PvE/RP servers have a must more robust player base than the non RP server I play on.  Also, not that I pay much attention to the white noise, but the Rift forums are ripe with threads begging for server transfers and consolidations.  That's not something players would beg for unless it was needed.



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Numtini on May 04, 2011, 09:08:44 AM
I don't know what companies do about the server issue. There does now seem to be a built in "wow tourist" crowd who is going to try nearly everything, but never switch. Rift seems very healthy to me, but probably could use to lose a few servers. I just hope they merge rather than just cross-servering dungeon queues.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on May 04, 2011, 09:21:51 AM
I don't know what companies do about the server issue. There does now seem to be a built in "wow tourist" crowd who is going to try nearly everything, but never switch. Rift seems very healthy to me, but probably could use to lose a few servers. I just hope they merge rather than just cross-servering dungeon queues.

I agree with everything you've said.  Trion had to add servers due to the login queues.  The WoW tourists seem to be much better about buying boxes than they are at hanging around (see WAR, Aion, etc.).  I would hope that Developers would pre-engineer a method of handling this phenomenon.  Were I to release a large budget game, I'd be thinking about expansion and contraction mechanics long before my title released. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Draegan on May 04, 2011, 10:57:58 AM
Rift servers are not that bad at all.  At least, all the EU servers are at medium right now.  US ones are down for a patch right now.

What does "medium" mean, exactly?  I can't find anything that defines the Trion server load metric. 

I can tell you as someone that plays on two different servers at endgame that there are real population differences between US servers.  The PvE/RP servers have a must more robust player base than the non RP server I play on.  Also, not that I pay much attention to the white noise, but the Rift forums are ripe with threads begging for server transfers and consolidations.  That's not something players would beg for unless it was needed.



People cry and ask for server transfers and consolidations in every game no matter what reality says.  Some people think their server should be teaming at 4am.  Some people think servers are dead just because they can't get a group too.

  All the US servers read medium as of 2pm EST.  I say that's pretty healthy.

Not sure what metric you're using.  Maybe you're on the wrong faction?  Faction inbalance is always an issue. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on May 04, 2011, 12:03:40 PM
All the US servers read medium as of 2pm EST.  I say that's pretty healthy.

Again, what does "medium" mean?  It's like terrorist code "orange". 

Faction is an issue, I agree.  I also agree that the game is healthy.  I just happen to think that the game has too many servers and would benefit from fewer servers with a "heavy" load during primetime to a) provide enough interest to defeat epic zone invasions for the few of us that still participate and b) so that I don't have to wait in long queues for BG's.  There aren't many servers with a load fo "heavy" during primetime and it's obvious.  Stillmoor is the only zone that I see people in on a regular basis anymore on my server.  A month ago I was fighting for spawns.  Now I'm dealing with tons of yard trash that I never even knew existed. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Numtini on May 04, 2011, 12:26:27 PM
Medium, in my experience, means I will regularly come across people while I'm adventuring in a low/mid level zone and that if I watch the chat, I can probably find a group in an hour or so by simply watching LFG/level/regional and waiting for someone who's spamming and suggesting we form a group.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Venkman on May 04, 2011, 07:26:17 PM
That worked very well for Champions Online. Even when player population was very low, the instanced environments still looked pretty busy.

Yeah, and it scales really well.  I played a bit of it when it went to free to play and the population seemed really high (comparable to the game's initial release almost).  I have some problems with the model, but if your game world doesn't matter anyway, there's no shame in it. (No one REALLY cares that there are 14 millenium cities, since you can't affect those zones anyway, and it does mean that the public quests with longer cool downs can be done more often.)

Curious about this. How flexible are the business relationships supporting instanced uni-servers? I could see sharded servers being effective for short term rentals during early peak, knowing the peak will fall off (Trion isn't stupid, they know the WoW boomerangs). Is that basically the same with instanced uni-server? If so then the only real difference is the user experience and bad PR of merges.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on May 04, 2011, 08:43:03 PM
An instanced uni-server as you call it would probably be a server farm.  If this is the case, then it should be fairly trivial to add or remove capacity as needed.  At least in theory.  Projects like this always have a way of skimping where they shouldn't.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Furiously on May 04, 2011, 10:19:55 PM
That worked very well for Champions Online. Even when player population was very low, the instanced environments still looked pretty busy.

Yeah, and it scales really well.  I played a bit of it when it went to free to play and the population seemed really high (comparable to the game's initial release almost).  I have some problems with the model, but if your game world doesn't matter anyway, there's no shame in it. (No one REALLY cares that there are 14 millenium cities, since you can't affect those zones anyway, and it does mean that the public quests with longer cool downs can be done more often.)

Curious about this. How flexible are the business relationships supporting instanced uni-servers? I could see sharded servers being effective for short term rentals during early peak, knowing the peak will fall off (Trion isn't stupid, they know the WoW boomerangs). Is that basically the same with instanced uni-server? If so then the only real difference is the user experience and bad PR of merges.

And having to deal with duplicate names at a later date.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on May 05, 2011, 06:22:40 AM
Champions Oniline, of all games, solved that problem.  "name@account" if you need to differentiate.

I think if you add in "perma"-instances by naming the instances the same as servers are nowadays, you can still have communities, but allow for a bit more of a dynamic adjustment as populations decline.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on May 05, 2011, 10:54:27 AM
Champions Oniline, of all games, solved that problem.  "name@account" if you need to differentiate.

I think if you add in "perma"-instances by naming the instances the same as servers are nowadays, you can still have communities, but allow for a bit more of a dynamic adjustment as populations decline.

Worked especially well for Champions as well, because character creation was basically the big thing, and if you can't name your guy what you want, thats kind of a big blow to a game that touts making any super hero you can imagine. 

In any event, of all the things Champions did poorly, this wasn't one of them, it actually worked quite well.  As for the business relationships question, I really can't speculate on that because I don't have any knowledge of it.  On the player-experience side of it though, I can say that when I was playing CO at launch and it had its big drop off I stuck around for a bit, and even though it was very evident that there were less shards around, the fact that my experience didn't change drastically was definitely something that kept me around a few extra months as just a pure super hero fan.  Had my super group had to change servers due to a shut down, change my character's name, etc, I think I probably would've just said to hell with it.

Not to mention other bonuses like - you can never meet anyone that plays the game and not be able to play together if you want to.  That has happened to me in WoW so many times I stopped keeping track.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nija on May 05, 2011, 11:41:55 AM
Not to mention other bonuses like - you can never meet anyone that plays the game and not be able to play together if you want to.  That has happened to me in WoW so many times I stopped keeping track.

There are a few people amongst my group of friends that transfer servers to play with co-workers for a few weeks each time a new expansion hits. Eventually their RL friends/coworkers burn out and they transfer back to the poopsocker realm.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Hutch on May 05, 2011, 12:52:35 PM
Now I want Blizzard to name their next new WoW server "Poopsocker".

Assuming that they get to the point where they need one, that is.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Abelian75 on May 05, 2011, 02:57:43 PM
I'm not a big fan of the instanced-zone thing either, honestly (I think it makes it feel really artificial and exposes something you really shouldn't have to think about as a player, especially in a more "world-y" game like Rift).  But something needs to be done, because this is going to happen to every single MMO in the future, pretty much.  The only reason it didn't happen with WoW was because they exploded the market.  Even if a new MMO ended up "killing WoW", it would still happen to them.  You'd have to make a game that drew in as many new MMO players as WoW did, which is a bit of a longshot to count on.

One alternative is just to pre-announce merges.  Just name servers something like "Happyland 1" and "Happyland 2" and just say that those two servers will merge once the populations are less active and able to support doing so.  So basically when Rift launched all those additional servers, they would have been 2nd versions of previous servers (not the most-most active ones, which will always exist and will always be filled to capacity, and thus wouldn't end up being able to merge).  Probably not the most elegant idea, and possibly a terrible one, but if you aren't going to do a single-server sort of thing, you really just need to make it clear from day 1 that merges will happen.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Numtini on May 06, 2011, 06:47:19 AM
I really don't like instanced zones a la conan. It made the game feel unreal. That's probably an illogical distinction, but so be it. I actually mind the "channels" idea where the entire server has two channels to be less objectionable than every zone has channels.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Draegan on May 06, 2011, 07:03:38 AM
I hate dividing the same world zone into channels.  It makes the game world feel cheap.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on May 06, 2011, 07:04:32 AM
I'm not a big fan of the instanced-zone thing either, honestly (I think it makes it feel really artificial and exposes something you really shouldn't have to think about as a player, especially in a more "world-y" game like Rift).  

I used to care a lot about this, until I realized that MMOs aren't actually about being worldy anymore.  Maybe a handful of them out there are but as long as your game isn't, there isn't really an advantage to having coherent worlds, its all just zones and dinggrats.   Now, that in itself might be a turn off, but quite frankly, when your world is a static backdrop for questing, it really doesn't matter if there are 10 copies of it.

Edit: My point being that if the fact that it being divided up bothers you, I suspect its actually the game itself that bothers you and that dividing it up just makes you notice more.  This is a sign you should play a different kind of game.  This is why I'm hoping Tribes Universe of Planetside 2 delivers....or else I'll resub to World War 2 Online again.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Venkman on May 06, 2011, 04:51:21 PM
Exactly. There's very little "massive" in the end user experience anymore. Mostly because the amount of "massive" in the early days has introduced mechanics and issues players didn't end up liking en masse.

This isn't a bad thing depending on taste, just the way the market has gone. There's still UO and Eve, which are awesome in their own right. But that's the model of experience the masses don't want, and the money has followed.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Abelian75 on May 06, 2011, 08:10:24 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying instancing zones is definitively sucky or anything.  It's more that I have a feeling that it has some negative effects that are really hard to define or measure.  On paper there doesn't really seem to be anything about them that would be a bad thing at all, other than awkwardness finding friends (which is the "exposing shit a player shouldn't have to worry about" bit).  Yet I feel like they end up hurting the game in ways that aren't easily explained.

Now, even granting that, it's not that hard to argue that the benefits of a single server outweigh any of those nebulous, hand-wavy downsides anyway.  I bring it up not so much to suggest that doing a champions/guild wars style single-server thingy is a terrible idea, but rather that it might be worth thinking of variations that seem almost identical, but somehow make the experience better.  The earlier suggestion of worldwide instancing rather than zone specific is interesting, and I have a feeling that would actually make it seem less wonky and artificial.  Conceivably you could just make as many channels/instances as the most dense zone requires, but in other areas put several channels into one instance.  So you'd pick, say, channel 55, and in Meridian/Ironforge/whateverthefuck that would equate to an instance containing only channel 55 dudes, whereas in bumfuckzone/Winterspring, you might have 44-55 all in the same zone together.  There are potential issues there, but I do like the idea of picking a single channel once and seeing a relatively consistent set of people whenever you play. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on May 07, 2011, 03:01:06 AM
Exactly. There's very little "massive" in the end user experience anymore. Mostly because the amount of "massive" in the early days has introduced mechanics and issues players didn't end up liking en masse.

I don't think it has that much to do with the players, other than they want the big bucks and that means going for the broadest lowest common denominator. The game designers want to be able to produce rich content and directed challenging gameplay. So WoW zones are like a guided tour through a theme-park whereas EQ was a map which might have stuff on it if you go exploring. But exploring means people might miss the rides and a large world means it costs a lot to create even small packets of content.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: eldaec on May 07, 2011, 01:10:28 PM
Champions Oniline, of all games, solved that problem.  "name@account" if you need to differentiate.

CoX, DAoC, and EQ2 did the same. I have a feeling EQ1 did it as well.

It surprising how many mmog problems were solved before 2004, only for the solutions to be entirely forgotten by everyone if they didn't also appear in WoW.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on May 07, 2011, 03:49:06 PM
They let you have cross-server chat, but I'm not aware of CoX, which I am playing at the moment, nor EQ2 letting multiple characters have the same name on the same server.  Never played DAoC.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Numtini on May 07, 2011, 09:19:32 PM
Your name was unique in EQ2. If you did crossserver chat, you just added their server to it. But you got your own name, not an email address.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on May 08, 2011, 02:50:01 AM
CoH/V had unique character names per server, as well as a unique global account name. So you could have "ThunderGod@BigMan" and "BigMan@BigMan", with "ThunderGod" and "BigMan" being linked to only one character per server (there may be other ThunderGods on other servers) and the unique global account name BigMan.

ChampO only forced the unique global account name, so that you could potentially see 8 "ThunderGod" characters at the same time, but they would be "ThunderGod@BigMan", "ThunderGod@L33tD00d", "ThunderGod@HammerTime", et al. You can flip options about what part of the names you see (iirc). I like this system a lot more because you know you are going to get the name you want and not get all the way to the end of creating your character only to find you have to find a name variant that wasn't yet taken.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Koyasha on May 08, 2011, 03:36:28 AM
Yeah, unique names makes no sense and never has.  The only logical reason for it is to ensure you can send tells and such to people.  But as several games have shown, there are other options for that, far better options, like the global name, which make it easier to contact people you know regardless of what character they're on.

Although I don't much care for DCUO this is definitely something they did right and I wish every other game would copy.  I find it strange how some simple convenience features that have been around for a very long time (global names, secure chat channels, etc) don't seem to get copied very much at all, even though they would go great with any game regardless of other mechanics.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Rendakor on May 08, 2011, 09:14:41 AM
Tabula Rasa handled that by giving you a single last name for all characters on your account, and allowing multiple copies of any given first name. It's the same thing as what ChampO did, but looks better in-game to me than the email address style.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Numtini on May 09, 2011, 06:25:52 AM
Tabula Rasa handled that by giving you a single last name for all characters on your account, and allowing multiple copies of any given first name. It's the same thing as what ChampO did, but looks better in-game to me than the email address style.

That sounds like a great way to handle it to me. My big objection to the email address style of names is that community is already a precarious thing in most MMOs. I don't want to see it degraded further.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on May 09, 2011, 06:42:59 AM
Tabula Rasa handled that by giving you a single last name for all characters on your account, and allowing multiple copies of any given first name. It's the same thing as what ChampO did, but looks better in-game to me than the email address style.

That sounds like a great way to handle it to me. My big objection to the email address style of names is that community is already a precarious thing in most MMOs. I don't want to see it degraded further.

So is your worry that having everyone in one big pool is just too many to form meaningful communities?  I'm not saying thats necessarily wrong, but I'm just trying to make sure I follow.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Numtini on May 09, 2011, 08:56:02 AM
Quote
So is your worry that having everyone in one big pool is just too many to form meaningful communities?  I'm not saying thats necessarily wrong, but I'm just trying to make sure I follow.

I was thinking of the email address type of global identifier. I feel like it depersonalizes other players, which is a general problem in current MMOs. The lastname thing gets around that. It's a more elegant want of handling the issue.

However, I also do think that large servers do present issues with community formation. I think there's a sweet spot where you have enough people to group with, but where you actually recognize names and people. But I think I'm just on the losing side of this battle. I like MMOs. And most people don't. And the industry trend is to slowly boil the frog with the end product most likely being no part of the "massive" part of the experience left other than the subscription fee.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Venkman on May 09, 2011, 05:56:08 PM
Exactly. There's very little "massive" in the end user experience anymore. Mostly because the amount of "massive" in the early days has introduced mechanics and issues players didn't end up liking en masse.

I don't think it has that much to do with the players, other than they want the big bucks and that means going for the broadest lowest common denominator. The game designers want to be able to produce rich content and directed challenging gameplay. So WoW zones are like a guided tour through a theme-park whereas EQ was a map which might have stuff on it if you go exploring. But exploring means people might miss the rides and a large world means it costs a lot to create even small packets of content.
Yea, that's pretty much it. I don't separate "the players" from "lowest common denominator" though, because in this medium, you need a wide enough playerbase to maintain your cashflow.

Not everyone sets out to create a WoW killer though. Some never market themselves that way, appropriately scale their resources to the players they think they'll get, and live happily for years right-sized for their audience (ATiTD for example). Others though chase the dreams of the big bucks because of a few press releases and managing to secure a large IP they think they can easily slap onto a carbon copy of the successful game. And when they miss their mark, there's six other companies in the wings waiting with their press releases and licensed IP.

That's pretty standard in many industries though. Luminaries that also had business success are rare, and usually launching a new experience rather than coming in late and capitalizing by perfecting.

On EQ1 though, I disagree. EQ1 was exploring in spite of the game play and UI. It could be that because it was so early in the life of this medium. But we only need to look at EQ2 and Vanguard to see what they'd have done with the EQ1 UI and game play if they had the 20/20 hindsight going in. UO would be more an "explore-y" game, same with SWG. You could join the content funnels (more of which came later to both games). But early on it was more the lifestyle of living the world than consuming the content on a linear track.

I'm with Numtini on their final paragraph.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Abelian75 on May 09, 2011, 07:19:03 PM
However, I also do think that large servers do present issues with community formation. I think there's a sweet spot where you have enough people to group with, but where you actually recognize names and people. But I think I'm just on the losing side of this battle. I like MMOs. And most people don't. And the industry trend is to slowly boil the frog with the end product most likely being no part of the "massive" part of the experience left other than the subscription fee.

I wouldn't necessarily lose hope.  Sure, the industry trend is to move toward an extremely guided, single-player focused MMO experience.  But the industry trend has also been to release MMOs that, without exception, fail utterly at meeting their expected player numbers (with the possible, indeed hopeful, exception of Rift.  lol at myself for having just said "without exception" and then listing an exception.)

The point being, yeah, the genre has moved away from the niche, hardcore player.  But at some point people may realize that trying to be the next WoW isn't working.  And if Rift DOES see a large falloff, I really think there is almost no hope at ever replacing WoW, because that game is pretty goddamn good.  It may just be that there won't be a single, colossal game like that in the MMO space again.  Which would actually be kinda awesome, and I say that as someone who is a big fan of WoW in general.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on May 09, 2011, 08:06:04 PM
I'm keeping some hope that GW2 changes things.  Only a little, 'cause I don't want my dreams crushed, but it's our best hope for the moment.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Koyasha on May 09, 2011, 08:16:32 PM
I was thinking of the email address type of global identifier. I feel like it depersonalizes other players, which is a general problem in current MMOs. The lastname thing gets around that. It's a more elegant want of handling the issue.
I'm not a big fan of the last name format because I like giving my characters exactly the name I want for them, nothing more, nothing less.  That should include a last name, but it shouldn't have to be the same last name as every other character on my account, simply because I might have a completely different character idea.  I didn't play Champ or DCUO enough to have many distinct characters, but in CoX I have characters from widely differing backgrounds, and it would make absolutely no sense to have them all share a last name.  Similarly, in any game where there's multiple races it also would make no sense.

I prefer a background identifier that will only come up if it's needed - if there's only one Joe Steel on the server, then sending a tell to Joe Steel works fine.  If there's more than one, it could try to determine automatically who you're talking to - for instance, if you have one of them on your friends list but no others, then it will default to the one that's on your friends list, and so on.  I can see your concern, but forcing me to use the same last name for all characters would, at least for me, be far worse than having to append a global, even if I need to do so manually.

As far as server size, I do think that discrete, unchanging servers need to go away.  But you're right in that if you combine all servers into a single pool it's harder to make connections with people.  The previously suggested method of having multiple 'channels' each with a name seems effective to me.  In Phantasy Star Universe, there were 16 or so 'instances' of every public area, and people tended to choose a number and stick to it.  I would pretty much always use #7 if I remember correctly, and I saw a lot of other people around repeatedly because they too used #7.  But on occasion I'd have a friend in another 'channel' and switch to that one, or they would switch to mine.  Identifying with a particular 'channel' would be even stronger if they had names, not just numbers.  Allow people to form communities, and they will.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Malakili on May 10, 2011, 05:18:06 AM
I was thinking of the email address type of global identifier. I feel like it depersonalizes other players, which is a general problem in current MMOs. The lastname thing gets around that. It's a more elegant want of handling the issue.
I'm not a big fan of the last name format because I like giving my characters exactly the name I want for them, nothing more, nothing less.  That should include a last name, but it shouldn't have to be the same last name as every other character on my account, simply because I might have a completely different character idea.  I didn't play Champ or DCUO enough to have many distinct characters, but in CoX I have characters from widely differing backgrounds, and it would make absolutely no sense to have them all share a last name.  Similarly, in any game where there's multiple races it also would make no sense.

I prefer a background identifier that will only come up if it's needed - if there's only one Joe Steel on the server, then sending a tell to Joe Steel works fine.  If there's more than one, it could try to determine automatically who you're talking to - for instance, if you have one of them on your friends list but no others, then it will default to the one that's on your friends list, and so on.  I can see your concern, but forcing me to use the same last name for all characters would, at least for me, be far worse than having to append a global, even if I need to do so manually.

As far as server size, I do think that discrete, unchanging servers need to go away.  But you're right in that if you combine all servers into a single pool it's harder to make connections with people.  The previously suggested method of having multiple 'channels' each with a name seems effective to me.  In Phantasy Star Universe, there were 16 or so 'instances' of every public area, and people tended to choose a number and stick to it.  I would pretty much always use #7 if I remember correctly, and I saw a lot of other people around repeatedly because they too used #7.  But on occasion I'd have a friend in another 'channel' and switch to that one, or they would switch to mine.  Identifying with a particular 'channel' would be even stronger if they had names, not just numbers.  Allow people to form communities, and they will.

For what its worth, in Champions Online you could turn off the global identifier name from the UI if you wanted to.  So in chat you'd just see "Thunderman" or whatever.  Then the only time you would need to deal with that stuff is if you wanted to add someone to your friends list.  I ended up turning it on simply because the game was an altaholics dream and the friends I had were always making up new alts, so it was easy to keep track of who was who.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on May 18, 2011, 10:32:25 PM
Looks like the rumours are correct: Chris Cao is no longer the Game Director on DCUO. Mark Anderson has taken on that role. (http://stationblog.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/a-welcome-back-letter-from-lorin-jameson/#more-3005)

The other part of that rumour was that Cao is now at Zynga.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: MisterNoisy on September 19, 2011, 06:42:46 AM
And in a move that will surprise absolutely no one, DCUO is going F2P (http://au.ps3.ign.com/articles/119/1195161p1.html).

Quote
Free
New players will now have access to the current gameplay in DC Universe Online (including Gotham City, Metropolis, and all current raids and alerts), with the ability to create two characters, join a league and many other benefits. Free level players will be able to purchase downloadable game packs/updates, additional character slots, powers and more through microtransactions.

Premium
Any player who has spent at least $5 (including former paid subscribers and new players who have purchased $5 of in-game items) will qualify for the Premium access level. Premium level players will have more benefits available to them than the Free level player, including additional character slots, additional inventory slots, and higher cash limits. Downloadable adventure packs, additional character slots, and more can be purchased in-game.

Legendary
Maximum features and benefits are included at this level. Loaded with enhanced additional features, Legendary access will be available for a $14.99 monthly fee and includes all DLC packs at no cost, more than 15 character slots, more than 80 inventory slots, the ability to form unrestricted-sized leagues, and many other benefits.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Amaron on September 19, 2011, 08:21:15 AM
Free 2 pay meaning "Free to pay even more than you did before" of course.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Hawkbit on September 19, 2011, 09:31:44 AM
Not surprising, and I'll finally check it out. 

My hopes:
1.  Station cash is used.
2.  They dump EQ2Xe, and just merge all the F2P stuff onto regular EQ2 servers. 

Because then, I'd actually play Eq2 regularly now that I'd have my high level toons.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on September 19, 2011, 06:08:51 PM
DCUO had to make this move. All its competitors are and the PC servers aren't retaining players.

Some great Smedley quotes in that article:

Quote
"We decided 'Let's listen to them'," said John Smedley, SOE president. "I don't know about you, but my credit card statement every month is this amalgam of s*** of MMOs that I'm too lazy to cancel. What we want is to offer people a way to not worry about that."

SOE: Home of the Shit MMO You Don't Have To Pay For.

Quote
"In terms of 'Is it a result in a drop in subs' – absolutely not," he said. "This is the right business model. If I can be honest, the game ended up costing a lot more than we thought it would, and this was our preferred business model from day one."

Server numbers are up because a lot of players are cashing in their free 45 days to check out the Green Lantern expansion, not because they are paying for the game. Also, if F2P was your 'preferred business model', why not launch with it?

So, DCUO launched January 2011 as a sub game and is F2P by October 2011, roughly 8-9 months. Is that a record?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on September 19, 2011, 07:35:23 PM
I think FFXIV will forever hold that record... probably a few others, too.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Cyrrex on September 20, 2011, 02:41:30 AM
Now that I have a monster gfx card, I've been spending some time with Champs Online, just to give it a fair shake.  It's s decent game for being free, but just barely.

By comparison, depsite its many, many faults, DCUO kicks the ever-loving shit out of CO.  DCUOs biggest problem is that there isn't enough to do to justify a subscription.  But it was a fun game for the content that is there, and it has a way cooler atmosphere than CO could ever have.  It's actually quite enjoyable to play.

In summary, DCUO as F2P?  Fuck yeah.  About time. 

Starting October?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on September 20, 2011, 07:43:16 AM
Yep - end of October, I believe.

Has FFXIV actually gone F2P, or just never charged to play? Does it have RMT somewhere?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: luckton on September 20, 2011, 08:00:28 AM

Has FFXIV actually gone F2P, or just never charged to play? Does it have RMT somewhere?

It's still not F2P, they're just not charging, though they still require a CC on file for the day they decide the 'throw the switch!'  :drill:

No RMT.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Amaron on September 20, 2011, 01:41:16 PM
Now that I have a monster gfx card, I've been spending some time with Champs Online, just to give it a fair shake.  It's s decent game for being free, but just barely.

Champs Online is only really fun if you have free form.   It really is a case where it's not very "free" considering that.   DCUO definitely kicks the crap out of it when it comes to quality of content.  It would be really great if F2P lets it kick off and finally have enough cash to get a competent dev team.   Sadly I suspect if it starts doing better SoE will just milk it.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on September 20, 2011, 06:07:11 PM
DCUO is fun for about a weekend, whereas I found that ChampO has a bit more staying power due to its flexibility in character gen. The Archetypes are fine if you don't want to learn the sometimes arcane power combinations required to perform.

The new DCUO F2P offer promises quarterly updates, but given that was a launch promise as well ("free content monthly, then a major update every quarter") it is hardly something to get excited about.

As for the dev team, it will probably be the same people.

However, given that DCUO is 3x more popular on the PS3 than the PC, I expect that is where their focus will be from now on.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: koro on September 20, 2011, 07:47:09 PM
However, given that DCUO is 3x more popular on the PS3 than the PC, I expect that is where their focus will be from now on.

That strikes me as kind of amusing, since people left the PC version in droves because significant delays in developing content for the PS3 version with the intent of simultaneous updates for both platforms which led to neither platform getting patches or content updates for ages. Those "quarterly updates" started as "monthly updates". It was only after the recent decoupling PC updates from PS3 updates that peoples' opinions of the game started turn turn around a bit. Of course, it's been a bit "too little too late" for that, but I imagine they'll get some PS3 sales out of it.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on September 21, 2011, 06:05:48 PM

Considering they wanted to charge 20+ USD$ for a subscription (in Australia) seeing this game fade brings me pleasure.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on September 21, 2011, 06:18:54 PM

Considering they wanted to charge 20+ USD$ for a subscription (in Australia) seeing this game fade brings me pleasure.

I know. Especially with their, "We've looked into it and the official response is SUCK IT" treatment of complaints.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Shatter on September 21, 2011, 06:28:41 PM

Considering they wanted to charge 20+ USD$ for a subscription (in Australia) seeing this game fade brings me pleasure.

I know. Especially with their, "We've looked into it and the official response is SUCK IT" treatment of complaints.

Got to give em credit for their ability to maintain asshole developer status all these years. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Ginaz on October 28, 2011, 03:46:44 AM
It seems 1 Nov. is the date set for the F2P to launch.

http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?topic_id=35434

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/dc-comics-mmo/1210902p1.html


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on October 28, 2011, 09:11:18 AM
So, it goes F2P roughly 12 months since it was meant to launch and 10 months since it actually launched.

All for US$50m+.

Don't think F2P will work out well on the PC, but on the PS3 it might easily become a staple title.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on October 28, 2011, 09:02:55 PM

It doesn't really change the central problem that it was desperately short on content.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on October 28, 2011, 11:16:31 PM
True, but it's F2P and if you finish the existing content, it costs nothing to wait around for the next set to appear.

SOE is (of course) promising lots of new content each month, but they did the same thing at launch and failed miserably. MISERably.

Plus Mark Hamill looks like he's finally said goodbye to doing the Joker voice professionally, so SOE now have to find a new VO artist for any new Joker content.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Amaron on October 30, 2011, 11:17:12 AM
SOE is (of course) promising lots of new content each month, but they did the same thing at launch and failed miserably. MISERably.

What?  I mean they didn't pull off the once per month thing but they've been popping out content pretty damn fast.   So fast it seems like they really just held stuff back from release.    Putting out content fast isn't actually all that useful when there is so little to begin with though.   Everyone quit after the first month and then the servers were too dead for anyone to bother coming back after any updates.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on October 30, 2011, 09:00:28 PM
They may have picked up a bit of speed at this point, but originally it was stated that new content would come out every month and a major update out every quarter.

Instead the smaller updates came out every 6 - 8 weeks and arguably the Green Lantern content was the only major update that came out in the past 12 months.

As a signifier of this: the DCUO Valentines Day event was at least a week late so missed VD entirely, while the St Patricks Day (March) event came out in April.

Plus the content that came out - one or two new missions, some extra difficulty settings, a few new in-game races (over rooftops, not elves) - wasn't enough to hold players either.

SOE was very clear up front that new content was on its way, but what came out was both delayed and short. So I take the new claims with a touch of salt as well.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Amaron on October 30, 2011, 10:46:28 PM
I think calling that a failure is extremely stretching it.   The new content came out at a perfectly acceptable rate.   Two new dungeons every 6-8 weeks is pretty good.   It just wasn't a rate capable of making up for the extreme lack of original content.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Scold on October 31, 2011, 02:26:14 PM
Is there a link to their cash shop?  I'm googling and not finding it.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on October 31, 2011, 06:31:06 PM
The new content came out at a perfectly acceptable rate.   

Not when it was said quite a few times by the devs up front that they planned for new content every 30 days, and even when the content was delivered late it was one or two missions for each side (roughly 20 - 30 minutes to complete), and then new difficulty settings for raids and the like, plus raid content that could only be truly finished after several updates (because it was released as Batcave Part 1, Batcave Part 2, etc). DCUO is up to update #5 (and I'm not sure if that also includes the Green Lantern pack that was going to be a paid expansion) where it should be, if launch promises were to be believed, up closer to update #11 or #12.

Yes, DCUO launched with not enough content, but a lot of fans held onto the promise of monthly extra content to fill the gaps. If SOE had delivered great new content month on month (or even great content that players felt was worth the wait) they probably would have retained more players.

Scold, looking around it seems that the cash shop is entirely in-game. There may be an announcement when DCUO goes F2P though that lists what they have.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Rokal on November 02, 2011, 02:34:34 AM
I installed this again since it's F2P. I didn't realize picking Batman as your mentor meant you started in Gotham (unless that's new?). I really wish I'd known that back when this launched, as one of my major complaints with the game is that I found it hard to care about idiotic villains like Grodd. Essentially the 6-8 hours I played in Metropolis city were fighting villains I didn't recognize in areas I didn't care about. I never got to the point where I ran out of content because I stopped caring way before then.

I took a look at the cash shop too, and I liked what I saw. Lots of cosmetic gear and fluff items, the Green Lantern power set/missions, and some permanent unlocks for more inventory space etc. It seems like free players can't detach items from mail, which sort of sucks since you get sent quest rewards through mail pretty often, but you can get 'premium' status by spending $5 on stuff in the store or having bought the game, which removes that odd restriction. I can see myself playing this every once in a while now that I don't have to maintain a subscription to it.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: koro on November 02, 2011, 12:34:57 PM
The Green Lantern stuff is not for free?

I guess the line about players getting "all current content" for free is interpreted a bit funny.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: luckton on November 02, 2011, 12:38:31 PM
The Green Lantern stuff is not for free?

I guess the line about players getting "all current content" for free is interpreted a bit funny.

The GL stuff was never said to be free, if I recall correctly.  They were gonna charge for that before they announced the F2P move.

That said...

It seems like free players can't detach items from mail, which sort of sucks since you get sent quest rewards through mail pretty often, but you can get 'premium' status by spending $5 on stuff in the store or having bought the game, which removes that odd restriction.

Yeah, fuck you SOE.  You're still not getting this whole "if we make it a nice and enjoyable free 2 play experience, there's a good chance they'll subscribe for the big stuff" concept, are you?  You don't screw with the little shit like mail and quest rewards.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Rokal on November 02, 2011, 02:00:56 PM
Well, 'premium' isn't a subscription. It's basically "spend any money on the game and we'll remove the restriction", but it's a pretty stupid restriction to make considering that mail is used for quest rewards very early into the game. You play about 30 minutes into the game before the tutorial brings you to the mailbox and says "wouldn't it be nice if you could loot this armor?" It would have left a bad taste in my mouth if I wasn't already premium from buying the retail box.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Montague on November 02, 2011, 04:54:27 PM
Dev post on the DCUO boards said the mail issue wasn't intended and will be hotfixed.

DL'ed the client yesterday, didn't get to play thanks to 16 hour maintenance for the F2p conversion. This game would have to be spectacular for me to pay Sony a dime.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Minvaren on November 02, 2011, 05:18:43 PM
Steam has the client available again as of today, FWIW.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on November 02, 2011, 06:18:06 PM
There are only two main zones - Batman and Joker mentees (probably not a word) start in Gotham, everyone else starts in Metropolis.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Minvaren on November 03, 2011, 04:19:45 PM
People check out DCUO F2P (http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/11/03/dc-universe-online-sees-120000-new-pc-players-less-than-48-hours-after-going-free-to-play/?ns_campaign=article-feed&ns_mchannel=ref&ns_source=steam&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0).

Quote
John Smedley, SOE’s President, announced on Twitter this morning that over 120,000 new players have signed up for their action-RPG MMO DC Universe Online on the PC since the game transitioned to free-to-play Tuesday evening. In the same tweet, he announced that the number of concurrent users logged into the game has increased 400% in that same time, and that they’re planning to launch a massive TV and online ad campaign later this month.

Woooooooo!  Go SOE!

Quote
Of course it’s not all daisies and roses for players trying to get into the game during this massive spike in activity. Even during non-peak hours, servers are having stability issues and, anecdotally, login queues have thousands of players waiting to get in and play.

Woooooooo!  Go SOE!   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: rk47 on November 03, 2011, 04:35:31 PM
Well, 'premium' isn't a subscription. It's basically "spend any money on the game and we'll remove the restriction", but it's a pretty stupid restriction to make considering that mail is used for quest rewards very early into the game. You play about 30 minutes into the game before the tutorial brings you to the mailbox and says "wouldn't it be nice if you could loot this armor?" It would have left a bad taste in my mouth if I wasn't already premium from buying the retail box.

It's $5. It probably pays for the Steam bandwidth I used to download the client or something. I logged in and liked what I saw. But I rather wait till the traffic dies down. Seeing over 20 heroes scrambling for mob spawns is a little off-putting.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Furiously on November 03, 2011, 04:37:14 PM
It kept dropping me back from character creation. After seven tries I gave up.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: rk47 on November 04, 2011, 10:34:16 AM
It did that to me the first time I created a character - I guess server was peaking out like hell. It was fine for a while now. I got a dual pistol guy to level 7 and really loved his animation.
I made a villain and kicked Power Girl's ass...to uh...collect her DNA...


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Soukyan on November 04, 2011, 02:36:24 PM
The F2P release on Steam today is a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

Quote
The US PC servers will be shutting down November 4th 1:20PM PT (10PM CET) for approximately 45 minutes. We apologize for this short notice and hope to bring you more updates shortly.

Thank you for your continued patience and support.

Regards,

Danicia

http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?topic_id=36591 (http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?topic_id=36591)

Of course, since it is F2P, nobody can complain about downtime since they didn't spend any money, right?



Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on November 05, 2011, 07:46:20 AM
A datapoint: when DCUO went F2P, it had 30k active subs (http://www.develop-online.net/news/39047/Popularity-surge-as-Sony-game-turns-free-to-play).

It's not clear if that includes both the PC and PS3 versions, but I'd suspect so.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: rk47 on November 05, 2011, 07:56:15 AM
They really had no idea how big of an IP they're holding do they? I mean, there can't be zero interest in this. Champ O might be understandable. I mean, who the bloody hell knows about Champ O outside of gamers. But non gamers who're told DCUO is free would probably flock and indulge in some weekend fantasy of working with Batman etc. It's definitely a big IP that would require more than a single server to maintain.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: luckton on November 05, 2011, 07:57:57 AM
They did things in the wrong order.  Had they gone F2P before merging servers, they wouldn't be in this situation.

Granted, they originally had delusions of grandeur thinking that this would be some kind of WoW killer and would never go F2P, but  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on November 05, 2011, 01:21:25 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again... I enjoyed the hell out of this game.  All it needed was about 5 times more content and a more fleshed out combat system.  The month at I played gave me a lot of fun.  It just had no stickiness to it. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Ragnoros on November 05, 2011, 04:55:47 PM
Holy bandwidth Batman! Downloading now, how can a 17gig game manage to have no content? FFS. I got 40+ hours out of Terraria, a FIFTEEN MEGABYTE GAME.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on November 05, 2011, 05:00:21 PM
Holy bandwidth Batman! Downloading now, how can a 17gig game manage to have no content? FFS. I got 40+ hours out of Terraria, a FIFTEEN MEGABYTE GAME.

It's purdy?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Rokal on November 05, 2011, 05:37:35 PM
Played a bit more today and ran into a few problems. 2k queue to log in, saw a little bit of rubber banding, and eventually fell through the world and was unable to use portals (after teleporting to a police station). So.. not especially stable, but I still had fun.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 05, 2011, 06:09:21 PM
The appearance system is great!  It's like the best bits of CoH, Free Realms, and a collection game rolled into one.  Getting your movement power at creation is nice.  Not tying weapons to power sets was a good decision.  Combat isn't perfect, but a great improvement over other MMOs.

Unfortunately the number of power sets is really limited and same with the movement modes.  It'll also be a while before the game is stable due to the influx of us newbies.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Amaron on November 05, 2011, 09:16:55 PM
I redownloaded the game because it wasn't on steam at one point.   So I logged in and I couldn't look at the market because I didn't install from Steam.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on November 05, 2011, 11:01:03 PM
Holy bandwidth Batman! Downloading now, how can a 17gig game manage to have no content?

It's fully-voiced content, plus it can be pretty.

There's content, but the unique missions per mentor are very limited. It's basically a console title spun out into MMO - you'll enjoy those 20 hours, but then you'll put it down and move on.

It also doesn't help that the early (and main) beta had a high concentration of DC fanbois, DC employees and those in love with just running around the DC universe. I think that process of testing stopped a lot of discussion about DCUO's flaws.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Rokal on November 06, 2011, 01:07:27 AM
Given the (apparent) lack of content, I'm also a little confused about their F2P business model. Unless I'm mistaken, the only content they are currently selling is the Green Lantern pack. Beyond that, their store offerings are mostly cosmetic items. That's nice and all, but players already have hundreds of cosmetic armor options for free. It seems like people can spend between $0-10 and be able to experience all the content in the game. How are they expecting to entice people to become subscribers, or keep the game profitable after everyone has made their initial $0-10 investment?

It's possible they're going to be much more aggressive about releasing new content (and charging $10 a pop to non-subs), but I'd be surprised if they really had that much content in development.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Furiously on November 06, 2011, 01:04:28 PM
5327 in queue.....


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Dren on November 06, 2011, 01:56:37 PM
I only downloaded and started to play because it was F2P, otherwise, not even a glance from me.  It worked for them because I liked it and played enough to feel like spending 15 bucks for the first month and get legendary status.  Mainly it is due to the DC stuff being done really well and the PvP server being pretty fun.  Each quest is a wildcard with all the open world pvp going on....fun!

Anyway, all that is being crushed under the huge Queues that end in a permanent freeze at the splashscreen.....  It is hard to believe they felt they could handle the influx of f2p on just one server for US and one for Euro.  Plays well if you get up early and play off-hours...


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on November 06, 2011, 04:32:26 PM

They know retention is going to be only a tiny percentage of the current load and new servers are expensive. Crime-craft had the same problem when they did a steam promotion. I'm not sure if it's possible for them to rent servers for short term use but that's pretty much what it would take.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Bzalthek on November 06, 2011, 05:52:55 PM
Meh, twice back to back I sit through a 5k+ queue and lock up on the loading screen.  It's fun, but not that fun.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Furiously on November 06, 2011, 06:13:54 PM
I'm not feeling the "fun" in the game. I love the costume system. But there is no soul to the game.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on November 06, 2011, 06:37:03 PM

I suspect SoE's management pretty much guarantee's that outcome.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: rk47 on November 07, 2011, 09:09:58 AM
I like it a lot. Peak server issues are preventing me from committing though. Well, hit level 10 and really want to come back. It's great.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Dren on November 07, 2011, 09:21:45 AM
I was able to get in during peak times this weekend just by trying over and over through queues and through the splashscreen freeze issue.  Annoying, but I was stuck at home doing  nothing but making sure my kids didn't trash the house.  So, once I did get in, I tried like hell not to ever log back out!

I'm fine with the $14.99 I paid.  For now, the massive amounts of open world pvp going on is what is the most fun for me.  Second is just the story arcs for the questlines.  I'm having fun with them. 

I do feel the game itself is pretty shallow.  The costumes are well done, but very limited compared to the other super hero mmo's.  I do like that you can lock your look, but that's nothing new.  The skill and power trees are well done from what I can tell, but I'm predicting that the number of stun and knock down abilities are doing to get old in PvP.  There is no crafting.  The travel powers are nice, but not sure I'd do anything but flight.  I'd go on, but don't have time.

I'm sure they'll expand with more things, so it remains to be seen how long I keep paying.  I figure I'll get enough outdoor raw chaotic pvp action to get my fill.  I think my main reason for accepting so much open pvp is that I am not in any hurry to get to endgame given the shallow nature of the game.  Why rush to 30?(I'm already lvl 15 on a toon I started that same day!)  Do you get bored 30's picking on lvl 5's?  Yep, but I've seen 2-3 lvl 5's take out a 30 too.  It is just part of the fun of having massive amounts of people playing the same area.  I've complained about that in other games, but for some reason, this one benefits from it.  I'll reassess 2-3 weeks from now.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Tyrnan on November 07, 2011, 09:55:42 AM
Did they ever address the issue with people using programmable gamepads and frame cancelling to hit people for ridiculous amounts of damage pretty much instantaneously? I only dabbled a little in PvP back when I played at launch but I remember it being a pretty huge issue back then and a lot of people claiming they were quitting over it.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Dren on November 07, 2011, 01:44:15 PM
I haven't experienced that myself, but that's a poor strawman to rely on.  I am not a forum jocky at all.  I just log in and play.

I could see that being an issue if you play arenas, which I haven't.  I'm just talking open/world PvP, which is really just done for fun considering there isn't any direct benefit in winning a fight.  I suppose people could get off on pissing everyone off by one shotting them, but that has to be a pretty low occurence.

The biggest issue is that you can chain cc with basically any build, which is why I suggested the shear number of stuns/knock-downs/snare abilities could become a problem long term.  So, I've learned to be extremely aggressive with world PvP.  If you see a red, attack and kill it.  You just can't assume they'll leave you alone because if two players are good, it is all about who starts locking down who first.  If a gang gets the drop on you, just die and come back.  Normally you can avoid this by looking at the map.  See a lot of red dots?  Best to be getting out of that area and/or find other green dots.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on November 07, 2011, 04:29:10 PM
Did they ever address the issue with people using programmable gamepads and frame cancelling to hit people for ridiculous amounts of damage pretty much instantaneously? I only dabbled a little in PvP back when I played at launch but I remember it being a pretty huge issue back then and a lot of people claiming they were quitting over it.

I can't guarantee it, but a lot of work went into removing those kind of massively unbalancing PvP quirks (like the above, or making your character go invisible).


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Minvaren on November 08, 2011, 07:21:46 PM
"Zone unavailable - exit the game and restart."

Well, suppose that's better than the zone-hang thing EQ had going on...

Aside from the connectivity issues, it's a fun little game thus far.  We'll see about staying power in another 2-3 weeks, though.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Dren on November 09, 2011, 05:23:41 AM
I noticed the queues are down to around 1000 primetime weekday now.  That sounds large, but takes maybe 3-4 minutes to get through.  The splashscreen freeze has seemed to go away, but I'm guessing it has something to do with timing out after waiting on a 5000+ queue on the weekends.

It will be interesting to see the subscription stats through all this.  I'd like to know the real numbers behind F2P players to Sub players.  All I know right now is there are a TON of players everywhere with open PvP happening around every corner in a big way.  If you are into that kind of thing, get in for free while the fun lasts. (2-3 weeks?)

The only thing I've noticed from free to sub since I paid my 15 bucks is more bag space, more characters to make, and an unlimited cash pocket.  You can easily level from 0-15 without paying a dime and that's where the huge amount of open world PvP is happening right now.

Why did I pay?  I still believe in paying for playing if I'm a regular, even for a short time.  I also wanted to have the extra character slots for my kids to play around.  At a minimum they love to make their own heros/villains.  (It could be my own guilty pleasure too....just maybe.)


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on November 09, 2011, 11:21:27 AM
900 person queue took about a minute to go through, what was the point of that.  Having loads of fun so far, although the costume sets felt very limited compared to the other super hero games.  Is the pvp on this any good?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Dren on November 09, 2011, 01:37:54 PM
900 person queue took about a minute to go through, what was the point of that.  Having loads of fun so far, although the costume sets felt very limited compared to the other super hero games.  Is the pvp on this any good?

I felt the same on the costumes, but as you play you unlock more and more items to play with on your image set.  You can either let the items you wear change your appearance or lock certain things on your appearance tab.  You can mix and match anytime you want.

The PvP I've done is all just open PvP.  I haven't done arenas.  The open PvP is rather chaotic and fast paced.  It seems like button mashing at first until you get used to your character and the visual effects of spells.  You eventually get a feel for the fast paced combat and get better.  The big thing is to quickly realize when you are the  main target and how to break out of CC and start pulling opposing teams apart so others can step in to tear them down.

Remember, "Shift" is your break-CC friend.  Use it!


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kitsune on November 09, 2011, 01:50:13 PM
When I heard they were putting green lantern stuff into the game, I was really encouraged.  I thought it was a great idea; since the lantern corps has thousands of members it's easy to be unique yet still part of an established DC group instead of Generic Red Tights Man.

Then I found out that you can't actually join the corps or wear their symbol, you get to be a "reservist".   :uhrr:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Soln on November 09, 2011, 09:47:01 PM
anyone else get this?

1. Change Password
2. Try to login
3. Told to fuck-off:  "Wrong username or password."
?

Uh no.

Is there some magical wait period the new station name and pw to update?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: caladein on November 09, 2011, 10:04:39 PM
No, I was able to go from changing my SOE password to using it pretty much instantly last night.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Scold on November 10, 2011, 03:41:25 PM
I tried rebinding my keys to the keys I like in every MMO.


You can bind the forward and back keys.

You can bind the side-stepping (strafing) keys.


You... can't bind keys to turn left and right?

What the fuck?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Nebu on November 10, 2011, 08:26:00 PM
I found it much easier to play with a controller if that's any help. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Soln on November 10, 2011, 11:39:32 PM
ok getting weirder.  

I try changing my password, and still no joy.  So just to get playing I create a new Station account via the log in client.  Log in, works, download starts.  I stop it to check the location of the install.  Start it again, and won't let me log in.... with the entirely new account I just created.  W-T-SOE?  :uhrr:


EDIT:  HAHA just figured it out.  SOE in their magnificence requires 8-15 characters for a password.  I was using 16, but they never told me they had truncated it.  LOL Fawk.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Cyrrex on November 11, 2011, 02:32:35 AM
I found it much easier to play with a controller if that's any help. 

Definitely this.  Game is loads better with an xbox controller.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 11, 2011, 03:55:38 AM
EDIT:  HAHA just figured it out.  SOE in their magnificence requires 8-15 characters for a password.  I was using 16, but they never told me they had truncated it.  LOL Fawk.
I hate when the behavior of entering a password acts differently than the log-in.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Zetor on November 11, 2011, 04:30:19 AM
Same with all ncsoft games - your password is truncated after the first 13 chars, though at least there it's sorta-obvious (the 'password' field on the plaync site has a max length of 13).

Come to think of it, a lot of places on teh intarweb silently truncate your password and don't tell you about it. It's also why (all-lowercase) passphrases are not that good in practice.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on November 11, 2011, 10:36:34 AM
Character power directly tied to achievement hunting? fuck, i know some people who would be gods at this game.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Dren on November 11, 2011, 10:59:45 AM
Character power directly tied to achievement hunting? fuck, i know some people who would be gods at this game.

I didn't know this, and normally I hate having to hunt achiev's.  In this game though, it just seems like you get an achievement for existing every 5 minutes.  Of course, you'll have those ultra achievers that have to get 2x more than you regardless of the count.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Minvaren on November 11, 2011, 11:13:23 AM
Character power directly tied to achievement hunting? fuck, i know some people who would be gods at this game.

Note to self : get more achievements.   :drill:

Enjoyed the full level the game gave me for exploring the klein bottle known as the Watchtower, though...   :awesome_for_real: :ye_gods: :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on November 11, 2011, 11:31:53 AM
Character power directly tied to achievement hunting? fuck, i know some people who would be gods at this game.

I didn't know this, and normally I hate having to hunt achiev's.  In this game though, it just seems like you get an achievement for existing every 5 minutes.  Of course, you'll have those ultra achievers that have to get 2x more than you regardless of the count.

I just found out myself, you get 1 skill point per 100 achievement points.  Some people have upwards of 80 skill points, you only get 15 for leveling.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Scold on November 11, 2011, 12:34:25 PM
I found it much easier to play with a controller if that's any help. 

Definitely this.  Game is loads better with an xbox controller.

The controller might literally sprout money as I play and I wouldn't care, I just want to use the exact same keybinds I use in every single MMO to date. WADZXC, with X as backwards, and Z and C being the strafe keys.  Nice and simple.  The same arrangement I used in CoH and CO.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Dren on November 12, 2011, 03:41:05 AM
Character power directly tied to achievement hunting? fuck, i know some people who would be gods at this game.

I didn't know this, and normally I hate having to hunt achiev's.  In this game though, it just seems like you get an achievement for existing every 5 minutes.  Of course, you'll have those ultra achievers that have to get 2x more than you regardless of the count.

I just found out myself, you get 1 skill point per 100 achievement points.  Some people have upwards of 80 skill points, you only get 15 for leveling.

Wow, that's good to know...  Guess using a lot of alts will get slowed down a good deal due to this.  Skill points are quite important.  Dang.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on November 12, 2011, 06:42:46 PM
If you are getting capped in cash a good way to spend it is buying the vendor items you haven't collected yet for the style feats, i assume the haircuts in your hq work as well.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: rk47 on November 14, 2011, 11:31:20 PM
Yeah, it's a fun game if you don't worry about end game tier gear at all. In fact, this is the most casual friendly MMO I've played ever. I really want to play all the archetype and see how they play out. Lv 30 in a week, another L20 in the works...started another with L10. Bought Green Lantern DLC...this is good stuff. And I only spent $10. Good deal IMO.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Minvaren on November 15, 2011, 03:31:17 PM
1 GB patch out of nowhere....

Patch notes (http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?topic_id=39217) do mention a "Zod Raid," though...   :grin:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on November 15, 2011, 03:40:23 PM
Can i go kneel before him?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: rk47 on November 16, 2011, 05:56:12 PM
This game's kinda harsh on end-game raid. Heh.

I made some heroes. I didn't go Villain cause there's too little players there, hard to get world raid etc done when I login.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Minvaren on November 20, 2011, 09:02:34 AM
Ok, so I located in very tiny print in a FAQ page that you can't advance past 30 unless you pay.

With as much time as I've put into this game in two weeks, I figure they deserve some cash (and I need moar levelz).  However, the way they have the cash shop set up is confusing, unless you're just trying to buy the DLC or go premium.  Also, you appear to be able to add SC with Paypal, but you can't buy the DLC with Paypal?  :headscratch:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on November 20, 2011, 11:50:43 AM
Uh... 30 is max level.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Minvaren on November 20, 2011, 11:55:12 AM
...well, that answers that.   :awesome_for_real:  Had thought it was 40, for some reason.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Der Helm on November 20, 2011, 03:01:33 PM
Managed to install this son of a bitch. Only had time to watch the intro movie.

Wow. I'd watch that movie.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: stray on November 20, 2011, 03:11:28 PM
I haven't kept up with this. I thought it was decent enough, for an MMO (at least on PS3, where options are lacking).

I lost interest simply because of the PSN hacking issue actually.  :grin:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on November 20, 2011, 05:07:08 PM
Managed to install this son of a bitch. Only had time to watch the intro movie.

Wow. I'd watch that movie.

Hunt down the post-release movie as well. I'm not sure they actually linked that in-game.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Hawkbit on November 20, 2011, 07:05:34 PM
I actually really like this on PS3, just to play casually.  I'm up around lvl 12 with a fire tank solo build, just tooling around.  I strongly recommend going to the PvP server, as it really adds a randomness to the game that I find enjoyable.  Can't imagine I'd want to raid or anything, but a wide open world of lvl 30 PvP with objectives like WoW's Tol Barad, or something, would be really fun.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on November 21, 2011, 05:15:56 AM
This really is the most casual MMO ever.  I've been playing for a couple weeks and I'm level 30 with 45 or so skill points without really focusing on getting achievements other than some very low hanging fruit like explorations and races.  Also "Legends" pvp is a great fucking idea more MMOs need to adopt.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Hawkbit on November 21, 2011, 08:43:11 AM
My only complaint about Legends is that there's no training for them.  The only way to learn is to play the toon, so PUGs are 3 Robins jumping around like idiots and 1 other player who somewhat knows what they are doing.  I agree though, it really is a great idea.  Normalizes the fun.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on November 21, 2011, 09:16:25 AM
Yeah, that is a valid concern specially since you can't even read the descriptions of your powers.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Minvaren on November 25, 2011, 05:49:42 AM
...so is it just me, or are the L30 "solo missions" (the ones without badgers) not exactly meant to be soloed?  At least without getting a couple dozen more skill points, in any case.

Tried to run a few over the last few days, and each one turns into "10 L30s jump you at once" at the end of them.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on November 25, 2011, 07:42:41 PM
I don't recall having a problem, i even did a couple of the duo ones alone.  Don't use pvp gear if you are, buy a set of the faction armor that costs 1 mark each per pieces if you dont have it.  And how many skill points are we talking about? i had about 40 when i hit 30.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Minvaren on November 26, 2011, 08:13:18 AM
Heh, that's probably it - only have 23 skill points at present.  Working on exploration/mission feats here and there to bring that up.

Forgot to look at the vendor stuff as well, will check that out.  Thanks!


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Dren on November 28, 2011, 09:48:24 AM
I'm normally one that would go PvE server in other MMO's, but this one really requires it IMO.  It is so casual for levelling and questing, being diverted for a bit to fight off roving PvP'ers is a GOOD thing.  The only drawback is getting the occasional bored lvl 30 that is geared to the teeth running around blasting lowbies.  Just avoid them after you rez or go to a different area to continue lvl'ing.  It really isn't a problem in this game.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on November 29, 2011, 07:53:54 AM
This game is incredibly fun and has the best combat system of any mmo yet, and every main storyline quest and cut scene is voice acted and yet nobody ever mentions that.  I am seriously reconsidering my swtor preorder just because i am completely engrossed in this game.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kail on November 29, 2011, 10:18:56 AM
Yah, really enjoying this game.  Is there an F13 guild or Superfriend Squad or whatever they're called?  Since there's only one server, it should be fairly easy to find each other.

I grabbed the Green Lantern pack, and am enjoying the hell out of throwing Doom Train at everyone, but the powers descriptions keep going on about "Construct Combos" which I have no idea what they are, or how to do them.  Is there some documentation for this, or something?  I can't even find any info on it on the wiki, it just lists attacks.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Dren on November 29, 2011, 12:49:30 PM
I hadn't mentioned the graphics, voice acting, and cut scenes just because I thought that was covered.  Yeah, it is really the best I've seen for an MMO yet.  I'm partial to the hero and villain storylines though, so it really grabs me.  I'm finding myself doing the age old "Just one more mission...."

The missions really push me to do both villain and hero characters too.  You get to see completely different sides of each general area from a different perspective.  I have to say I haven't seen an MMO let you play the true villain like this game though.  The closest I can compare is the DK opening quests in WoW, but you eventually "see the light."  In this game, you make evil doing a lifestyle.  You get into some pretty messed up situations.

I have noticed the "guild" system in this game is not very user friendly.  I too have had no luck in finding a group and would be interested if one starts up here.  I'm not for raiding much, but some general pvp and lower requirement lvl 30 instances would be cool.  The kind of stuff you can just fall into each night on a whim.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on November 29, 2011, 01:30:55 PM
The missions really push me to do both villain and hero characters too.  You get to see completely different sides of each general area from a different perspective.  I have to say I haven't seen an MMO let you play the true villain like this game though.  The closest I can compare is the DK opening quests in WoW, but you eventually "see the light."  In this game, you make evil doing a lifestyle.  You get into some pretty messed up situations.


I even started to *like* some of the villains.  Calculator is just fucking cool and i actually didn't want to let Lex Luthor down.  Harley is obviously adorable too.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on November 29, 2011, 01:36:43 PM


I grabbed the Green Lantern pack, and am enjoying the hell out of throwing Doom Train at everyone, but the powers descriptions keep going on about "Construct Combos" which I have no idea what they are, or how to do them.  Is there some documentation for this, or something?  I can't even find any info on it on the wiki, it just lists attacks.

This are actually described right there in each power.  For example just tapping your melee attack button will combo chainsaw unto itself so you can spam the same power five times, chainsaw also combos into minigun by doing a range button hold and i think minigun goes into whip lash by tapping melee attack.  So if you cast chainsaw and do five melee taps one range hold and three melee taps you'll get five chainsaws one minigun and three whip lashes.  The comboed moves don't apply any power specific effects though, you have to use the actual power to get those, also they do white damage so they are affected by precision not might.  They also don't cost any power.  Apparently there are ways to do infinite combos described on youtube.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kail on November 29, 2011, 02:19:34 PM
(Construct Combo stuff)

Ah, I see, thanks.  I wasn't getting that they were all tied to specific powers, I just assumed that once I had Boxing I'd be able to do the Boxing combo.  It looks like a lot of these combos require talents in both trees, is it viable to spec like that?  I assumed this was like LoL or WoW where you focus heavily on one tree or gimp yourself.
 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on November 29, 2011, 02:41:42 PM
No, not at all, most people pick and choose powers from both trees.  You also end up with way more than the 6 you can slot in your bars though so having some points left over to grab the passive boosts from the iconic powers is good.  Oh one more thing about the contruct combos, you need to have the actual power to combo into so if you want to do a chainsaw minigun whip lash combo you need to have purchased all three powers, but you do NOT have to have them loaded on your bar to combo into them.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on November 29, 2011, 10:38:31 PM
In this game, you make evil doing a lifestyle.  You get into some pretty messed up situations.

You can push civillians to their deaths if you find them on top of tall buildings. I thought that was pretty cold.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Spiff on November 30, 2011, 02:34:35 AM
This game is incredibly fun and has the best combat system of any mmo yet, and every main storyline quest and cut scene is voice acted and yet nobody ever mentions that.  I am seriously reconsidering my swtor preorder just because i am completely engrossed in this game.

Nice city design as well (cool to see actual sky-craper sized buildings for once).

Quick question though: how long have you been playing?
I like the game quite a bit myself (might not say the best MMO combat system evah, but it's definitely up there), but it's limited, still.
I've had a level 30 villian and hero for a few weeks now (after a bit over a month of very casual play and a bunch of alts) and ... I'm over it.
It's pretty much just rerunning old instances as far as I can tell and grinding armor just feels wrong in this.

Alts don't offer that much either; there is some variation on powersets/weapons but too little to hook me and not enough content to follow a completely new path or anything.
It's definitely a game I'll revisit once in a while, but far too shallow to hold my attention long-term.

Another one on the 'close-but-no-sigar-list' for me.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on November 30, 2011, 05:21:11 AM
A bit over a month i think, about a week after it went free.  I don't really farm old instances, i play for pvp where the combat shines.  I assume it will get old eventually the same way street fighter did, but right now i am having a lot fun learning the system.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Dren on November 30, 2011, 09:10:00 AM
A bit over a month i think, about a week after it went free.  I don't really farm old instances, i play for pvp where the combat shines.  I assume it will get old eventually the same way street fighter did, but right now i am having a lot fun learning the system.

Same for me.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Minvaren on December 01, 2011, 07:57:03 AM
I ran a few "challenge mode" missions last night and aced them, with only adding on 2-3 more skill points and one minor gear upgrade since my last inquiry.  :headscratch:

Acquiring badgers galore, now to up the rep with someone to where I can actually use them.  Toyman dailies seem far more doable in a group than solo.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Hawkbit on December 01, 2011, 08:44:47 AM
What are strong solo class skill/weapon combinations, with PvP utility to help with gankings?  I had a fire tanker, but ended up running him more dps oriented.  Around lvl15 he started feeling weak towards mobs, taking too long to kill. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Minvaren on December 02, 2011, 08:43:12 AM
I only PvE, but my main is a gadgets/brawling sort.  Against most L30 mobs it's snare/pull ("get over here!"), whack whack whack dead.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Dren on December 02, 2011, 10:46:08 AM
What are strong solo class skill/weapon combinations, with PvP utility to help with gankings?  I had a fire tanker, but ended up running him more dps oriented.  Around lvl15 he started feeling weak towards mobs, taking too long to kill. 

I wanted the same and found the following:

The one I'm currently liking the most (tried 3 other combinations,) is a dual pistol / sorcery.  Decent range but with good melee escapes and nice AOE options.  I pick flying travelling option to help with keeping out of the main fights and help with surprise (chose a small body styel too for a lower profile too.)  Sorcery gives you decent healing and the pet options are nice.   I used their wiki to pick the right combinations for the skill enhancements.  Not all decisions for this are equal.  They do a good job at showing what combinations give you the best endgame benefits (min/max ahoy!)  Ultimately, I'm a healer and planned to fit that role in a group, but found this character choice was also great for playing both pve and pvp solo.

There are tons of other options just as good, but this seems to be a decent one-fits-all selection. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on December 02, 2011, 12:38:29 PM
My fire tank with dual wield has no problem soloing because of the self heals.  I've made it my goal to get the 65k healing in an arena match feat, best so far is 18k :P


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kail on December 09, 2011, 12:00:25 PM
Has anyone tried the new xpac?  Any opinions on if it's any good or not?  I'm still enjoying the game, but kind of reluctant to drop another ten bucks on an expansion just a few weeks after I bought the last one.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on December 09, 2011, 12:16:37 PM
The new content is gated by gear score, unless you want to play with the new powers don't bother.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Minvaren on December 17, 2011, 06:32:42 AM
As mentioned in the EQ2 thread, today (12/17/2011) is triple Station points day, so $10 will net you both expansions with money left over.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kail on December 17, 2011, 12:36:05 PM
Doesn't seem to work for me.  Spent $10, got 1000 points, bought the expac with one left over.  I thought that was the normal price?


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Minvaren on December 17, 2011, 12:43:02 PM
Apparently they edited the terms of the deal to not include purchases made through Steam.   :uhrr:


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Rokal on December 17, 2011, 02:08:16 PM
You can buy it through SOE.com, not that it helps you if you already bought points on steam.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on December 17, 2011, 02:56:46 PM
Thats horrible.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Minvaren on December 17, 2011, 04:32:23 PM
Update (http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?topic_id=42295).

Quote
We are working with Steam and want to ensure those affected that we will automatically credit the additional Station Cash earned during today's promotion.

Hopefully this works out for the best.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on December 17, 2011, 04:53:02 PM
We went out and bought cards.  Every Walgreens and CVS has Free Realms cards.  Though I didn't even know you could buy SC through Steam.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Rokal on December 17, 2011, 05:17:14 PM
If you downloaded the game via steam, and launch the game via steam, that's considered 'through steam' when you buy points. Steam gets a cut on microtrasaction purchases if you downloaded the game through them. That's why the more successful F2P games (LoL, LOTRO, etc.) aren't on Steam.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on December 18, 2011, 12:48:30 AM

.. I doubt that, I'm pretty sure if games run their own cash-shops they don't have to cut steam into it.

However steam has a "wallet" that can be used to buy points for the free games tied to steam. So since I'm happy to give steam my credit card details, and don't want to give it to dodgy asian free MMO (or Sony), I put value into the steam wallet and use that to buy points. And doing that today got a UI saying you'd get the 3x station points but didn't deliver.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Rokal on December 18, 2011, 01:15:12 AM
This was the entire reason that EA games fell off steam. Valve wanted a piece of the DLC revenue for EA games played through steam, and EA was selling the DLC directly through the game (DA2) without giving Valve a cut. This had been fine in the past, but Valve changed things to prepare for F2P games launching on Steam.

You're kidding yourself if you think Valve is posting a bunch of F2P games, advertising them, and fronting the bandwidth for downloads like EQ2 out of the goodness of their heart(s). Or that Riot games is simply oblivious to the free exposure/extended audience that Steam would net them.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on December 18, 2011, 03:33:50 AM

Wasn't that something entirely different? That was EA wanting to sell the base game on steam but their DLC only on Origin (according to EA anyway). That's EA offering a limited service for the product on steam.

Putting virtual currency into the game is quite different, and I very much doubt steam gets a slice of all money that goes into station cash unless it actually goes through their wallet system.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Rokal on December 18, 2011, 12:18:17 PM
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/07/28/dragon-age-2-abducted-from-steam-ea-points-finger-at-restricti/

^The original story, which is that the game was removed because the DLC was sold in-game instead of through the Steam client.

Believe what you want, I suppose. Valve is definitely taking a cut of purchases made through Steam installs.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: UnSub on December 18, 2011, 05:27:08 PM
The owners of content delivery systems are getting a cut of the revenue on what they deliver. Otherwise the F2P model is a run around paying for access to that system.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kageru on December 18, 2011, 05:58:51 PM
I don't know I'd call DLC the same as buying in-game cash. But then the actual conditions seem to be fairly secret.

Certainly EA has been trying to deliver a game on steam and then siphon customers off to its own site. Just as Mass Effect had DLC content you could not get through steam, only through their site. It was really bloody annoying and I suspect steam considers it as being manipulative. If the content was also available through steam (where valve will get a cut) *and* through other sources (where they don't) I'm not certain if they'd care.

It seems unlikely they'd get a cut of SOE station cash bought through SOE as that is used freely on a wide range of SOE games only some of which are through steam. If it is bought through their wallet system on the other hand I am sure they are getting a cut, that's got to be their motivation for hosting f2p games.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Threash on December 19, 2011, 05:37:49 AM
You buy the DLC with ingame cash.  Everything I did went through steam, the store charged my steam account directly. 


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Kail on December 19, 2011, 11:34:50 AM
Whatever the problem was, seems to be resolved now.  Logged in to find myself with the points I would have had if I'd gotten the sale, so that's nice.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Minvaren on January 12, 2012, 04:14:16 PM
So DCUO just patched in crafting today with their "Game Update 8" patch.

Might log in this weekend and poke at it to see what it's all about, in any case.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Pagz on January 12, 2012, 05:16:53 PM
A simple guide to the new crafting system:

Since super speeding around the cities was the most fun I had in that game it might be worth it to jump in and do some what is essentially treasure hunting. From memory isn't a lot of the higher level raid things gated by gear though? Really hope that that gear is "slot anything", or something like that, unless the new Combat Rating thing removed it all.


Title: Re: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.
Post by: Lantyssa on January 13, 2012, 07:26:00 AM
Interesting.  Maybe this will help me finish leveling my character to 30.