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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Topic: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now. 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: DCUO- will be out November 2. Can apply for beta on main site now.  (Read 298145 times)
Triforcer
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on: January 11, 2009, 08:16:14 PM

http://ces.gamespot.com/video.html?sid=6202973

Lots of interesting stuff here.  My minor nitpicks:

(1) Not sure I like the "respawn in 10 seconds with full health mechanic."  At a minimum, I really can't see this working on PvP servers (which the DCUO Myspace page states the game will have- yay for that at least).

(2) I want to see Gotham.  Metropolis looks like every other generic city in a superhero video game, ever.

(3) Camera work is still a bit clunky, especially for flying enemies.  

(4) I'm ambivalent about the "only eight powers at a time" thing (and only four of those are active, four are reactive- thus, you have two basic attacks outside the power set, and four clickable abilities).  I like the ability to swap power sets after every fight, though.  This makes me worry a bit about tactical depth, but see below.


My likes:

(1)  Throwing cars.  Yes, please.  Please let me fly with a car up 30 stories and drop it on a villain in PvP.  This will be tough to balance- throwing things should do major damage, but this would naturally be limited by the limited availability of things to throw.

(2)  Power customization.  Supposedly, a dozen power sets- I've read, in various places, 4 or 5- fire, ice, electricity, radiation, and light.  It doesn't look like you can have powers from multiple sets, though.

But here are the levels of customization I have seen:

(a) Power set- fire, ice, etc.  We don't know alot about how different these are.  Although (as I said above) any power set can apparently swap in powers to get more DPS-y or tank-y, I hope there are significant strengths and weaknesses to each set (I can see radiation being more about DOTs, ice being more about crowd control, etc).

What would naturally add some balance here is natural weaknesses- fire-based are weak to ice, ice weak to fire, etc.

(b) Power source- magic, meta, gadgets, etc.  This limits your costume choices- a magic-based character can't use cyborg costume parts.  From what I've read, this seems to be cosmetic only (i.e., gadget fire-based leads to same potential powers as magic fire-based).

Check out CES 2009 screenshots as well- awesome shot of a cyborg female speedster.

(c) Weapon- this is important.  Within EACH power set, you can be ranged or melee.  That's pretty damn nice and (if the powers are different enough) could really add to replayability.  

(d) Movement type- so far, they have revealed flying, superspeed, and acrobatics.  Acrobatics is featured in that video- seems a bit floaty, but you can cling to walls (which fliers and speedsters can't).  Other articles have reported that the devs have hinted at trying to get in more (line-of-sight teleportation seems the obvious choice, and would be my personal favorite- give me a Nightcrawler cloud of smoke as I pop around the top of buildings, please).  

(3) I like the graphical direction, but obviously Metropolis is easier to do right than Gotham.  If they get Gotham right, I'll never leave.

(4) PvP (see DCUO myspace page for full dev post) is robust.  PvP servers, PvP zones, actions that flag you PvP, and both static and event-based hero v. villain instances.  

Think about what an absolute hell PvP will be too balance, though-  most MMOs have 10 or 12 classes, that are naturally tanks, DPS, healers, etc.

This game- a dozen power sets, each with ranged or melee potential, AND each of those combos could have at least three possible ways of movement.  Balancing movement powers in PvP alone seems really difficult.  How does a speedster catch a flier that just goes straight up when the battle is going bad?  How does an acrobat catch a speedster?  If speedsters are the fastest (and if all movement sets are equally fast, nobody would pick speedster) how does an acrobat or a flier prevent the speedster from hitting their megarun skill (speedsters are fast, but have a cooldown ability to kick it into really high gear) from just making a straight-line sprint away?  And if you give everyone ability to ground fliers or slow speedsters, you don't get the epic rooftop to rooftop battles that you see in comics.

(5) NO MOB FIELDS ANYWHERE (supposedly).  The exact quote I saw somewhere was "you won't see demon crack dealers on one side of the street with robots from the future across from them, with cultists summoning things from cauldrons on the rooftop."  Apparently, all mobs are tied to events happening (robberies, attacks, etc).  This seems like early development dev pillow talk, but if they can pull it off its pretty revolutionary.


Overall, I'm pretty excited about this as I read more.  PLEASE don't let this suck.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 04:06:25 PM by NiX »

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
schild
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Reply #1 on: January 11, 2009, 08:19:54 PM

Quote
(1) Not sure I like the "respawn in 10 seconds with full health mechanic."  At a minimum, I really can't see this working on PvP servers (which the DCUO Myspace page states the game will have- yay for that at least).

(2) I want to see Gotham.  Metropolis looks like every other generic city in a superhero video game, ever.

(3) Camera work is still a bit clunky, especially for flying enemies.

(4) I'm ambivalent about the "only eight powers at a time" thing (and only four of those are active, four are reactive- thus, you have two basic attacks outside the power set, and four clickable abilities).  I like the ability to swap power sets after every fight, though.  This makes me worry a bit about tactical depth, but see below.

1. It's a fast paced game. You have to play it to understand how that would work and how well it would probably work.

2. Metropolis was the original totally generic super hero city. New York during the day. Gotham is just New York at night. ^_^

3. I agree. When I last played, running was a problem also, really really really fast. Pretty amazing actually. But I'm sure they'll tweak both to perfection.

4. Well. It has to be playable on more than just a keyboard. awesome, for real
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Reply #2 on: January 11, 2009, 09:35:09 PM

So much of DCUO reminds me of CoH/V it isn't funny, even down to some of the animations. A faster version of it, sure, but their source is pretty obvious.

Also, I'm still yet to see more than 4 players in one area of DCUO. The whole "massively multiplayer" aspect is yet to be really shown.

I'm really interested to see how this title turns out, especially vs ChampO and CoH/V. While I've seen some players going nuts over wall running, the videos I've seen of it have just given me whiplash in trying to follow the camera.

SnakeCharmer
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Reply #3 on: January 11, 2009, 09:51:24 PM

Wow, that was really kind of cool.  Very video gamish looking and less (traditional) MMO looking, but still very cool.
Triforcer
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Reply #4 on: January 11, 2009, 10:20:39 PM

So much of DCUO reminds me of CoH/V it isn't funny, even down to some of the animations. A faster version of it, sure, but their source is pretty obvious.

Everyone keeps saying this, but I'm curious how it can be avoided.  Its a superhero MMO, set in the D.C. Universe.  People will fly and run fast and shoot fire from their hands at robots and aliens.  I suppose everyone could ride giant wombats and decide the outcome of battles through interpretive dance and a poetry jam while mashing peanut butter into their own hair, but then it wouldn't exactly be a superhero MMO.  Its like saying WoW and LOTRO remind you of Everquest since there is armor and magic. 

The point is more valid if you are talking about art direction, but again, if you want to capture that "comic book panel" look, all superhero MMOs are going to have a similar direction.     


EDIT:  Your point about superspeed is spot on though.  Some people won't be able to select it (even if they normally would for RP or its gameplay) for vomit-related reasons  ACK!
« Last Edit: January 11, 2009, 10:42:08 PM by Triforcer »

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
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Reply #5 on: January 11, 2009, 11:18:16 PM

DCUO's superspeed effect is very similar to CoH/V's superspeed effect (an energy wave around the feet).

The jumping pose - arms up, feed raised - is very similar too. Also the use of a few pillars (and two power sets) to customise what a character can do.

Take other superhero games - they do look different to CoH/V in a number of ways. To me it almost looks like part of the design document for DCUO was "Take CoH/V as a base model and extend it". If I didn't know better I'd swear that Cryptic was making DCUO and SOE was making ChampO.

But the only way I'll know is if I get into the DCUO beta test. How things look on video and how they play can be completely different.

schild
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Reply #6 on: January 11, 2009, 11:28:02 PM

Quote
Also, I'm still yet to see more than 4 players in one area of DCUO. The whole "massively multiplayer" aspect is yet to be really shown.

I have.

I can't really say much, but I can say SOE Austin is doing some really cool shit. SWG seems to have been a really great learning experience for everyone involved, though most of those people have left and are busy polluting another game. awesome, for real
Trippy
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Reply #7 on: January 11, 2009, 11:44:29 PM

I guess I shouldn't be surprised it being an SOE game and all but the animations are still incredibly assy as well as the faces still having that fucking Poser "uncanny valley" look to them.

It's nice that the death cam defaults to an upskirt shot though  Ohhhhh, I see.
Velorath
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Reply #8 on: January 12, 2009, 12:04:13 AM

Thought the combat looked pretty crappy.  Probably doesn't help that the main character in the demo was using swords, making the combat look really similar to fantasy MMO's.  Looked like a lot of button mashing while tons of numbers pop up above everyones' heads.  Maybe it was just a shit demo?
Ragnoros
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Reply #9 on: January 12, 2009, 12:16:18 AM

Meh. Unimpressive.  Looks "Been there done that" + "assy" animations.

If they want to get my attention, show me something besides the same stuff I have been doing for years in CoX. I say that because IMO CoX NAILED fun combat years ago. I'm sure SoE/Cryptic can copy it just fine for the next go round.

DCUO and ChampO are going to be tested with their content and stickiness. Will I be doing anything more interesting then fighting randomly spawned groups of mobs standing around waiting for me to come SMASH them? Will there be anything reasonably fun to do other then killing arresting mobs?

Quick cheap shot: From the amount of times he died in that demo, it looks like they have already learned from Cryptic/Jack's Nerfbat Enhancement Diversification design Vision strategy.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 12:19:49 AM by Ragnoros »

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ashrik
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Reply #10 on: January 12, 2009, 12:27:36 AM

Huh? That combat looked nothing like standard fantasy MMO combat to me. If anything, I'd say it was much more similar to a beat-em-up vibe they went for.

I'd guess that either the guy was playing it like a beat-em-up and mashing the attack button (as opposed to a series of different moves ala WoW), they spruced up the auto-attack to make it a lot more kinetic, or he had the entire combo bound as one of the four attack keys he had available.

Is it me or are they playing that on a Playstation?
schild
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Reply #11 on: January 12, 2009, 12:29:32 AM

Quote
Is it me or are they playing that on a Playstation?

 Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
Triforcer
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Reply #12 on: January 12, 2009, 12:30:47 AM

Bah, there are too many COH/V curmudgeons in this thread  awesome, for real

Seriously, though, I don't really care about PvE.  Superhero PvP in three dimensions done right would be fucking robot Jesus riding a rapture AND a raptor.  Although, it seems like it would be hard to get right without veering toward (A) continent-wide chases or (B) disabling all travel powers when people start hitting each other.  

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
ashrik
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Reply #13 on: January 12, 2009, 12:36:23 AM

B Although, it seems like it would be hard to get right without veering toward (A) continent-wide chases or (B) disabling all travel powers when people start hitting each other.  
I can see either of these options being pretty cool.

Also, were you there at CES 09, Schild?
Ragnoros
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Reply #14 on: January 12, 2009, 12:50:47 AM

Bah, there are too many COH/V curmudgeons in this thread  awesome, for real

Get off my lawn! Get off my lawn!

Seriously, though, I don't really care about PvE.  Superhero PvP in three dimensions done right would be fucking robot Jesus riding a rapture AND a raptor.  Although, it seems like it would be hard to get right without veering toward (A) continent-wide chases or (B) disabling all travel powers when people start hitting each other.  

I hate to say this, but it's for your own good. Don't get your hopes up.

CoX already did PvP. It ranged from broken to fairly passable. However, I do not believe "Raptor Riding Robot Jesus Awesome!" were ever used to describe it.

When it did "work" it was basically about jumping someone and either dropping them in a couple seconds before they had a chance to flee. Or using some control power to hold them in place while you did the deed.

Besides this is SOE, making a MMORPG. Not Valve / Double Fine / Team Ico / (your boner inducing developer of choice) creating a half indy, half big budget AAA title that will rock the foundations of gaming as we know it.


Owls are an example of evolution showing off. -Shannow

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schild
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Reply #15 on: January 12, 2009, 12:58:27 AM

Also, were you there at CES 09, Schild?

No, but I happen to live less than a mile from SOE Austin (and like 5 other gaming companies).
Trippy
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Reply #16 on: January 12, 2009, 01:02:12 AM

Maybe you should write about your experience there awesome, for real
schild
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Reply #17 on: January 12, 2009, 01:06:29 AM

Maybe you should write about your experience there awesome, for real

I can tell you that I've almost finished my "punch through the internet" machine.
Velorath
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Reply #18 on: January 12, 2009, 01:44:46 AM

Maybe you should write about your experience there awesome, for real

I can tell you that I've almost finished my "punch through the internet" machine.

I'm sure it will be the greatest thing ever too once you get collision detection working.
Jack9
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Reply #19 on: January 12, 2009, 01:45:36 AM

I liked the idle graphics. A step up from CoH is a step up.
The animations seemed good until I saw the combat. Even the green targeting rings? seemed ugly. Sliding, unnatural movements (or just standing with crappy arm animations), knockdowns or damage without a clear indication of cause, especially for enemies and the main char, it all clashed with the nice textures.
I like the mechanics of faster movement via acrobatics, the wall sticking but air dashing up? Seems lazy. Air dash seems a lot like make acrobatics a crappy flying ability.

As to balance, if you put in PVP objectives, who cares if a flier goes up to avoid combat? PVP does not have to be synonymous with deathmatch.

Interesting to hear about, I have no enthusiasm toward it.
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Reply #20 on: January 12, 2009, 06:28:25 AM

CoX already did PvP. It ranged from broken to fairly passable. However, I do not believe "Raptor Riding Robot Jesus Awesome!" were ever used to describe it.

When it did "work" it was basically about jumping someone and either dropping them in a couple seconds before they had a chance to flee. Or using some control power to hold them in place while you did the deed.

CoH/V recently changed its PvP system to try to stop this kind of one-shot-or-run-away tactic. It wasn't a popular move among the PvPers who liked that kind of thing and I haven't tried out the new system.

DCUO is meant to be out on the PS3 and PC, but the last report was of problems in getting the PS3 and PC versions to talk to each other meaning they might need separate servers for each platform.

DCUO vs ChampO will be an interesting fight, especially since the only cross-over will be on the PC which would seem to be least friendly to "action RPGs" anyway.

Mrbloodworth
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Reply #21 on: January 12, 2009, 06:38:48 AM

I like how doomsday was camping his corps (incap, whatever).

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Draegan
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Reply #22 on: January 12, 2009, 07:16:50 AM

That looks pretty cool.  Then again I never made it passed level 10 in CoX.  I spent the majority of my time making characters.
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Reply #23 on: January 12, 2009, 10:00:59 AM

Maybe you should write about your experience there awesome, for real

I can tell you that I've almost finished my "punch through the internet" machine.

I'm sure it will be the greatest thing ever too once you get collision detection working.
How'd you know that was my current problem?
Raguel
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Reply #24 on: January 12, 2009, 10:07:09 AM


I like the "no mob fields" bit. The combat (outside of switching modes) sounds very 'meh'
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #25 on: January 12, 2009, 10:15:38 AM


I like the "no mob fields" bit. The combat (outside of switching modes) sounds very 'meh'

This sounds like its from SWG, AKA: mission terminals. It may also lead to the same issue, you accept mission...go to location, when you are near the location..it spawns everything, however anyone near there...just got a surprise, and potentially, just killed your targets.

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Lantyssa
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Reply #26 on: January 12, 2009, 11:17:42 AM

I can tell you that I've almost finished my "punch through the internet" machine.

I'm sure it will be the greatest thing ever too once you get collision detection working.
How'd you know that was my current problem?
Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier to go "punch through" with no collision detection?  Grin

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
schild
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Reply #27 on: January 12, 2009, 11:18:46 AM

I can tell you that I've almost finished my "punch through the internet" machine.
I'm sure it will be the greatest thing ever too once you get collision detection working.
How'd you know that was my current problem?
Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier to go "punch through" with no collision detection?  Grin
It's all about timing.
Ravanos
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Reply #28 on: January 12, 2009, 11:53:28 AM

I just hope they do PVE raid content better than CoH/V ... though i guess that would be like asking a chef to make something that taste better than shit.
HaemishM
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Reply #29 on: January 12, 2009, 12:10:01 PM

Wow, I didn't know City of Heroes was getting a DC Universe skin server.

Color me completely unimpressed. The gameplay looks like just about any other MMOG diku bullshit gameplay. I see no real upgrades from City of Heroes in terms of how the gameplay looks in combat.

sidereal
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Reply #30 on: January 12, 2009, 12:18:08 PM

So much of DCUO World of Warcraft reminds me of CoH/V Everquest it isn't funny

Just sayin.

It's been shown that refinement adds enormous value.

THIS IS THE MOST I HAVE EVERY WANTED TO GET IN TO A BETA
Draegan
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Reply #31 on: January 12, 2009, 12:54:49 PM

Wow, I didn't know City of Heroes was getting a DC Universe skin server.

Color me completely unimpressed. The gameplay looks like just about any other MMOG diku bullshit gameplay. I see no real upgrades from City of Heroes in terms of how the gameplay looks in combat.

What would you of been impressed with.  Not sure what people are looking for.  I never liked CoX.  I thought it was terribly boring and retarded.  This game looks a little more action packed and less grind?  Graphics look decent but the animations are shit.
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Reply #32 on: January 12, 2009, 12:59:41 PM

I'm looking for something that doesn't remind of EQ-style gameplay.

schild
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Reply #33 on: January 12, 2009, 01:01:04 PM

Wow, I didn't know City of Heroes was getting a DC Universe skin server.

Color me completely unimpressed. The gameplay looks like just about any other MMOG diku bullshit gameplay. I see no real upgrades from City of Heroes in terms of how the gameplay looks in combat.

There are, but I don't think they've announced them yet. They have, sort of, shown them, but you'd have to be playing to realize the major differences.

Edit: I'd say wait for game journalists to give impressions, but you know, game journalism. Lol.
Ghambit
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Reply #34 on: January 12, 2009, 01:20:37 PM

The key to making a good Supers game is making sure the characters have distinct abilities, looks, powers, professions, and vices.  So far, from what I've seen of DCUO it's basically "you're all special and you all kick the same amount of carbon-copied ass."  I got no sense of originality from that demo that makes individual superheros what they really are... which is extremely unique and fatally flawed.  I mean cmon, "defense-mode?"  Are you serious?
Bah... junk

...next

p.s.
This is where Champo pwns DCUO.  ChampO stuck (hopefully) with the main tenets of supers gaming, largely since it was humpbacked on top of a proven pen/paper system more akin to traditional superheroes.  The powers and vices are customizable to the extreme, which is what it's all about really.  Otherwise, wtf are you actually playing?  WoW in pew pew spandex maybe?

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
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