Sooooo....Dragon Age

[Sheepherder]

Between the two of them, Bioware and Bethesda seem to be destroying the whole "RPGs must have shitty slow-paced fighting" trope.

Everything decent Bethesda does is probably by accident.  Or have you forgotten the combos in Oblivion already?  Fuck spamming the disarm combo thirty times (and missing fifteen times because a keyboard is not an analog controller) to get an effect, only to have the skeleton run over and pick the fucking axe up and be ready to fight again in three seconds like the smart lad he is.

[rk47]

Anyone remembered Jade Empire? 
I don't mind fast paced combat as long the action flows seamlessly, not like the disjointed experience of Neverwinter Nights 2. It was acceptable in Baldurs Gate, but after they made the transition to shitty looking 3d graphics, I can't be interested enough to endure the fights. There wasn't enough feedback to tell me what sort of spell effects the magic casters are under. Commands are carried out with delay due to phase based action in a real time environment. Pausing, Cancelling current action and queuing up heal does not fire off as expected. Most of the time the character would stand there till his casting phase starts again (most often I had no idea WHEN or WHY he CAN / CANNOT start casting) while his fighter companion dies. And that's why I'm skeptical with this RT party combat promises.

[Njal]

Could it be that it's a matter of perspective enforced in other media types?

I think it's the same thing. We don't see first-person sword fights because they'd just be shaky shots of someone's face going 'WAAUUGGHH' a lot. I want to see Obi-Wan do backflips, not watch the scenery get blurry for a while.

From the perspective of someone who's done fake medieval fighting in the SCA you don't really notice what your own body is doing. Your focus is all on your opponent(s). Then there's the fact that they never do anything resembling proper weapons technique in a game. I have no idea how they could get that effect short of some sort of VR.

Mind you I just like all the Bioware games to varying degrees anyway, so I don't let it bother me.

[Koyasha]

Yeah, this issue has been a problem throughout all the AD&D based video games cause you don't have any idea what the initiative order is, who's turn it is, and what actions you've already used in your turn.  If there was a UI window or something that you could open up while paused so you could see who's turn it is, who's already gone this round, and who's still going to go this round, most of that problem would be solved, you'd be able to see that cancelling the spell wouldn't do any good cause you've already started to cast it, or that that character's turn isn't going to come up until next round, after those three enemies move.  One way to solve this in Baldur's Gate, and I think NWN/NWN2 also - if you want to live with the constant pausing - is to turn on a ton of the auto-pause options, which then allows you to issue commands for the next round, every time.  But, in non-challenging combats, which is most of them, this is pointless and irritating.

[rk47]

My tent is SOOOOO COOOLLLLLLLD alone.

1.And? What do you want me do about it?
2.Then get a thicker blanket.
3.Well we can't have that.
4.You must be joking

 

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=659507958654&ref=mf

[Sky]

Yeah, this issue has been a problem throughout all the AD&D based video games cause you don't have any idea what the initiative order is, who's turn it is, and what actions you've already used in your turn.  If there was a UI window or something that you could open up while paused so you could see who's turn it is, who's already gone this round, and who's still going to go this round, most of that problem would be solved, you'd be able to see that cancelling the spell wouldn't do any good cause you've already started to cast it, or that that character's turn isn't going to come up until next round, after those three enemies move.  One way to solve this in Baldur's Gate, and I think NWN/NWN2 also - if you want to live with the constant pausing - is to turn on a ton of the auto-pause options, which then allows you to issue commands for the next round, every time.  But, in non-challenging combats, which is most of them, this is pointless and irritating.

I like the way Drakensang handles this, you can hit k to open up the detail window and see what's going on under the hood. Also, the nicest initiative system I've seen is in HoMaMV with the scrolling window at the bottom.

[Slyfeind]

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=659507958654&ref=mf

I absolutely cannot get into any RPG romance, because there's always a dude behind it all.

And yeah, looks pretty generic. I'm sure it'll be great exploration, so that's what I'll be getting it for.

[Azazel]

My tent is SOOOOO COOOLLLLLLLD alone.

1.And? What do you want me do about it?
2.Then get a thicker blanket.
3.Well we can't have that.
4.You must be joking

 

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=659507958654&ref=mf

I'm embarassed for having watched that. 

[rk47]

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=659507958654&ref=mf

I absolutely cannot get into any RPG romance, because there's always a dude behind it all.

And yeah, looks pretty generic. I'm sure it'll be great exploration, so that's what I'll be getting it for.

The shoulderpads aren't generic dude. Check out that 1 foot wide broadsword too. 

[Sheepherder]

From the perspective of someone who's done fake medieval fighting in the SCA you don't really notice what your own body is doing. Your focus is all on your opponent(s). Then there's the fact that they never do anything resembling proper weapons technique in a game. I have no idea how they could get that effect short of some sort of VR.

No, just no.  SCA (from what I can find) lifts their training from renaissance dueling manuals, which is very atypical of conditions you would find on a battlefield.

Speaking of which, it's time for another shortbus argument, maybe this time katanas versus mechs?

[Slyfeind]

No, just no.  SCA (from what I can find) lifts their training from renaissance dueling manuals, which is very atypical of conditions you would find on a battlefield.

Not to mention that SCA fighting is very atypical of conditions that work in a video game.

and @ RK47, YAY innovation at last! ^_^

[Hawkbit]

maybe this time katanas versus mechs?

Lets go with silver nunchaku vs. werewolf.

[WindupAtheist]

I'm embarassed for having watched that.  

Yeah, that was pretty painful.

Oh, and did I call it on The Blight(tm) or what?

[NiX]

Second that being painful. Oh, Black Isle, why have you left us?

[Strazos]

Ugh....Still going to buy it, HOWEVER, that damn romance dialog was PAINFUL.

And the dude narrating did the game no favors.

[Njal]

From the perspective of someone who's done fake medieval fighting in the SCA you don't really notice what your own body is doing. Your focus is all on your opponent(s). Then there's the fact that they never do anything resembling proper weapons technique in a game. I have no idea how they could get that effect short of some sort of VR.

No, just no.  SCA (from what I can find) lifts their training from renaissance dueling manuals, which is very atypical of conditions you would find on a battlefield.

Speaking of which, it's time for another shortbus argument, maybe this time katanas versus mechs?

Well google Pennsic War and tell me the SCA has no experience of the battlefield. I'm not saying it's valid from a real battle perspective, however from the viewpoint of what you see in front of you in armour while in a 500 on 500 battle (with no fear of death which may change everything) you aren't paying attention (yes you see them) to your own moves which is why in most games having your arms/weapons flash into view is jarring (to me at least).

[Tmon]

I'm embarassed for having watched that.  

Yeah, that was pretty painful.

Oh, and did I call it on The Blight(tm) or what?

That kind of crap is why I play with sound off and ignore any potential romance plots.

[Brogarn]

I did the romance in Mass Effect purely for the achievement. I still don't remember how I got her into bed as I just hit spacebar through the responses until that shit was over with. It was the first in game romance I ever participated in and it felt creepy even with actively trying not to pay attention. I just don't understand why some people get into those.

As far as the rest of Dragon Age goes: First, I think the marketing department needs to be rounded up and taken out back and shot. Second, I've been chanting "please don't suck" since they first announced this game and will continue to do so until released. I hope this bears delicious RPG fruit.

[rk47]

I'm just gonna start replaying Mass effect again to get the save game for its sequel. I'm not really looking forward to DA much after much of the previews sucked.

[Murgos]

I did the romance in Mass Effect purely for the achievement. I still don't remember how I got her into bed as I just hit spacebar through the responses until that shit was over with. It was the first in game romance I ever participated in and it felt creepy even with actively trying not to pay attention. I just don't understand why some people get into those.

Do you skip pages when people start kissing in books?

[Brogarn]

Do you skip pages when people start kissing in books?

[rk47]

Buks r nut Gaems  

Honestly there's a Dragon Age novel coming out, just like Mass Effect. You can go and read about kissing over there. I'm just gonna forgo this optional romance shit if it doesn't actually 'INSPIRE' your party stats bonuses. It's almost as if Bioware is trying to catch up to JRPG relationship system with their writing is still taking babysteps but that doesn't stop the marketing to label them as the 'GOOD' parts of the game.   I believe some game preview sites have already commented on how horrible the romance demo was, but mr Gaider of bioware said it was 'unfair' to criticize it based on a short demo. Right, I guess more suck up lines have to ensue before we get the cold tent event unlocked. >_<

[Sheepherder]

Well google Pennsic War and tell me the SCA has no experience of the battlefield. I'm not saying it's valid from a real battle perspective, however from the viewpoint of what you see in front of you in armour while in a 500 on 500 battle (with no fear of death which may change everything) you aren't paying attention (yes you see them) to your own moves which is why in most games having your arms/weapons flash into view is jarring (to me at least).

Lessened situational awareness in "the real thing" isn't a compelling reason to design a certain way when your test subjects are weekend warriors.   Regardless, I was addressing your point of "proper weapons techniques."  You know, the bolded part.  SCA is flat out fantasy LARP, case in point:



Something is missing here:



Hmm... Maybe I'm just confusing the period?



Nope.

This reminds me of the time I linked a Japanese manuscript with a picture of a dozen samurai fighting with polearms and bows to some random fucker with a katana fetish...  You don't happen to think that swords are meant to be primary battlefield weapons, do you?

[Malakili]

But...but...

I wanna be a jedi ninja samurai knight in shining armor...

[fatboy]

As far as the rest of Dragon Age goes: First, I think the marketing department needs to be rounded up and taken out back and shot. Second, I've been chanting "please don't suck" since they first announced this game and will continue to do so until released. I hope this bears delicious RPG fruit.

I couldn't agree more.  This looks *so* promising as a classic RPG.   Bioware has yet to disappoint me with their RPGs......so "Please Don't Suck."

[Brogarn]

Lessened situational awareness in "the real thing" isn't a compelling reason to design a certain way when your test subjects are weekend warriors.   Regardless, I was addressing your point of "proper weapons techniques."  You know, the bolded part.  SCA is flat out fantasy LARP, case in point:

Umm. No.

http://lalartu.smugmug.com/photos/447769070_MChgP-S.jpg

http://www.nipissingu.ca/department/history/MUHLBERGER/uploaded_images/DeTaaheBattle-PW-36-field-battle-797839.jpg

http://www.softwareartist.com/SCA/War_14.jpg

And on and on. You can get better pictures than the one you posted. I have a buddy that's been a lifelong member since damn near the beginning of the SCA and has videos of their wars. They're not LARP. Not in the least. There are rules that obviously wouldn't apply in real life, but they beat the shit out of each other. There's no roleplaying about it.

[Venkman]

As far as the rest of Dragon Age goes: First, I think the marketing department needs to be rounded up and taken out back and shot. Second, I've been chanting "please don't suck" since they first announced this game and will continue to do so until released. I hope this bears delicious RPG fruit.

I couldn't agree more.  This looks *so* promising as a classic RPG.   Bioware has yet to disappoint me with their RPGs......so "Please Don't Suck."

This. I want. Soon as my PC is fixed, but I assume that'll happen well before Dragon Age comes out. Of course, this title also makes me realize that while I've been playing fantasy-themed RPGs since Ultima II, apparently I still have the capacity for more 

[Sky]

There's no roleplaying about it.

IT'S MAKE BELIEVE.

Tackle make-believe rather than flag make-believe, ok.

[Tmon]

Do you skip pages when people start kissing in books?

Yes, when I know the author writes shitty love scenes.

[Ratman_tf]

Do you skip pages when people start kissing in books?

Yes, when I know the author writes shitty love scenes.

"Hold me like you did by the lake on Naboo."

Writing in computer RPGs is notorius for it's badness. Going romantical is just awful piled on dreadful. Pressing "A" to kiss is just retarted. Unless it's a Sims game. 

[Brogarn]

There's no roleplaying about it.

IT'S MAKE BELIEVE.

Tackle make-believe rather than flag make-believe, ok.

Sigh. Fine. Technically it's roleplaying. But the fights involve fully armored and trained combatants and outside of a few rules to keep the currently living alive, its about as real as its going to get. Its not that bullshit from Role Models (although a pretty damn funny movie). Its Medieval combat reenacted as close to the original as possible without actually killing anyone.

[Sky]

Its Medieval combat reenacted as close to the original as possible without actually killing anyone.

[Brogarn]

Its Medieval combat reenacted as close to the original as possible without actually killing anyone.

 

[Bunk]

Are you guys really Dashing up a Dragon Age thread by debating the combat merits of the SCA?

[Brogarn]

Are you guys really Dashing up a Dragon Age thread by debating the combat merits of the SCA?

Umm. *cough*



*runs*