Recruiter told not to hire WoW players

[Velorath]

Nothing is beyond belief with these amateur punks anymore. I'm so glad Shawn Elliot is doing a Games Journalism Symposium so all those people can pretend to "be real" for a few minutes before not actually inciting any sort of change (I hope they prove me wrong).

I don't think his goal is to really try and incite change.  I think John Davison gave a pretty clear example of why change doesn't happen:

Jeff Green and I spent a lot of time talking to Computer Gaming World readers, and trawling through our message boards to really try and put together the ultimate reviews section for the audience. We wanted to do something a bit different, but more than anything we wanted to acknowledge what a large group of our readers were telling us. That was, essentially, that "we're older" and "we're smarter" than the average gamer, so "treat us like that." They wanted longer, more considered think pieces about games, and it appeared, anecdotally at least, that review scores were not high on their list of priorities. They wanted, they said, to really understand what the reviewers were trying to convey. They wanted to really dig in.

So we gave them that. We took the scores off, and made the reviews longer. We actually went a step further, and tried to acknowledge the broader critical spectrum, and talk about what caused other reviews to express particularly positive or negative comments. It was our own little expression of idyllic critical idealism. A utopia of reviewing and we dreamt that it would spark enlightened and intelligent debate about specific qualities and opinion.

The reaction was spectacular. The readers really, really fucking HATED it. The most common complaint (I'm paraphrasing, but it was pretty consistent) was "How do I know what you think if you don't give it a score?" That and "you guys are retarded." We figured at first that it was simply a bit of culture shock and that it would wear off, but the negativity increased over time. After three months or so, we had to go back to putting a score out of five on the reviews just to stem the tide of vitriolic hatred.

[schild]

Yes, much like the PVP Vocal Minority, listening to readers willing to give feedback won't help. But frankly, it would have to be a systemic change. Not a one-off shot from a magazine no one cares about anymore. But a systemic change will never ever happen, not because readers would hate it (they'd get over it, pronto), rather - advertising. That's all this industry is anyway.

Edit: Words are hard.

[tazelbain]

Edit: Words are hard.

Sure, but please acknowledge the broader critical spectrum of your expression of idyllic critical idealism

[schild]

Edit: Words are hard.

Sure, but please acknowledge the broader critical spectrum of your expression of idyllic critical idealism

I give your post a 9.0 out of 10.3.

[Lantyssa]

The use of language in that article makes me cringe. Where do these people learn to write?

The same place they learn journalism.

[schild]

The use of language in that article makes me cringe. Where do these people learn to write?

The same place they learn journalism.

That's too chicken and egg.

[Senses]

The irony here is that the story I heard so often a year or so ago about how companies we're actively seeking guild leadership in potential young candidates was probably started on this site as well.  I'm pretty sure the real answer is that noone gives a shit one way or the other. 

[Lantyssa]

That's too chicken and egg.

Think of it more as a koan.

Alternatively:  They don't.

[schild]

The irony here is that the story I heard so often a year or so ago about how companies we're actively seeking guild leadership in potential young candidates was probably started on this site as well.  I'm pretty sure the real answer is that noone gives a shit one way or the other. 

Nope, we just linked to it and then laughed about it.

Some people agreed, but mostly, that was bullshit also.

[Tale]

The irony here is that the story I heard so often a year or so ago about how companies we're actively seeking guild leadership in potential young candidates was probably started on this site as well.  I'm pretty sure the real answer is that noone gives a shit one way or the other. 

No, see the original post in this thread for the Wired magazine story which started that talk. I linked to it. We're going in circles again.

[Edenfall]

The irony here is that the story I heard so often a year or so ago about how companies we're actively seeking guild leadership in potential young candidates was probably started on this site as well.  I'm pretty sure the real answer is that noone gives a shit one way or the other.

Not necessarily. There's never just one alternative being chosen for answer or conclusion.

Factors as practical hobbies are nothing but an illusion anyway - since you have your opinion on practical things, it becomes an illusion. Those few people in the world, able to extract abstract qualities from a person by simply asking questions, will see the truth of whether or not you're in a shit position if they actually hire you.

Then again, no one's perfect. Look for qualities of people, not quantities of employees. Knowing how ones employees work is what gives the most potential for efficiency and profit.

[Tale]

Another example of the story changing as it gets passed along ... now it's only European recruiters who don't want WoW players: Employers to recruiters: Don't send us WoW players

An article courtesy of GameIndustry.biz reports that some recruiters -- in Europe, anyway -- may be instructed to screen out World of Warcraft players for employment ...

Me to European employers: Quit being idiots.

The reason he assumes this is about Europe? Because he stole it from GamesIndustry.biz who stole it from Eurogamer.net who stole it from Raph. The writer sees "Eurogamer.net" and it becomes Europe's fault.

[Slyfeind]

This has to be a joke that everybody's in on. Nobody could be this stupid!!!

[schild]

Another example of the story changing as it gets passed along ... now it's only European recruiters who don't want WoW players: Employers to recruiters: Don't send us WoW players

An article courtesy of GameIndustry.biz reports that some recruiters -- in Europe, anyway -- may be instructed to screen out World of Warcraft players for employment ...

Me to European employers: Quit being idiots.

The reason he assumes this is about Europe? Because he stole it from GamesIndustry.biz who stole it from Eurogamer.net who stole it from Raph. The writer sees "Eurogamer.net" and it becomes Europe's fault.

I'm glad you're tracking this, I'm too angry.

[Merusk]

This has to be a joke that everybody's in on. Nobody could be this stupid!!!

Research takes precious time that isn't available in this digitial instant-messaging eon of ours.   If you can source it to a 'legitimate' news site, well, SOMEONE must've researched it, rite?

We've seen other cases of rumors or stupid posts turning into mainstream messages of fear and warning. Why should it surprise you that one started from this site instead of another for once?  It's not just Gaming "journalism" that fails in such spectacular fashion, it's just what gets under Schild's skin the most.

[schild]

It's a little further than under my skin this time, for the record.

[Tale]

I'm glad you're tracking this, I'm too angry.

Not really, I just looked at what was tracked on Google News: http://news.google.com/news?tab=wn&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&ncl=1280896286

This amateur-ish one made me laugh.

The guy obviously read Fark quoting Silicon Alley Insider's line "No matter how proud you are of your Level 80 Death Knight, don't list "World of Warcraft" on your resume as a hobby. In the plagiarised version, this becomes "It does not matter how proud you are of your 19th level Death Knight, under no circumstances list WoW as an interest on your CV". Change the level, they'll never notice!

My line "Their attention is elsewhere and their sleeping patterns are often not great" becomes part of the article, not a quote. And "According to Alleyinsider, Headhunters generally warn WoW players not to mention their hobby on their CV, as many companies will just throw them in the rubbish bin." He just made that line up - Alleyinsider didn't say any such thing.

[Venkman]

This right here is the perfect example of why the internet does not solve basic communication problems. People trust the portal they read shit from and rarely dig any further. Heck, what's the chances most people will read the whole article anyway? So the portal can get away with anything they want.

This itself would be a good research project for someone looking to do an expose on reporting.

[Samprimary]

Not really. You're just priding yourself as an exception above the rule.

This does not change the rule.

Still proves there are exceptions. Not saying an employer would give a damn though.

There's exceptions for everything. I know heroin addicts who are still functional employees. It doesn't keep the fact from pretty much being that WoW play is something you can actionably screen for.

What employers are going to be (or already are) doing with this WoW discrimination is little different than when they disqualify GED earners or when they enforce mandatory pee/hair tests for marijuana use, or when they use psych questionnaires as part of the application process: it's a wide-cast discriminatory net that is attempting to thin the applicant pool through cheap and easy mass disqualification.

Actionable data like 'smokes pot' is stuff that they love. Even if you engage in recreational pot use that legitimately does not interfere with your ability to work as a data entry guy, a large company knows that on the macro level it's easier and more efficient to cast a blanket ban on that activity as an employee filter, due to the behavioral correlations to pot-smoking demographics and shit.

Something like 'plays WoW' is just going to end up as the latest dragnet data for a few industries due to MMO playing prevalence in some demographics, like young male tech professionals, because it is true that it is a negative attribute for potential employers that they can potentially benefit from screening out.

[Ratman_tf]

It's a little further than under my skin this time, for the record.

Are you crawling in your skin? Those wounds, do they not heal?

[schild]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=346230

I bet that link gets picked up by the media if they aren't already sleeping through the new year. Or playing too many new games to bother. /irony

[schild]

I've been following this story around a bit and I'm upset that some of the comments are as dumb as some of the reports. Things not to do:

1. Compare it to religious or racial differences.

Why? Wake me up when being black or white or muslim or jewish makes you have fucked up sleep schedules, become horrible at having a structured life, and spend too much time on, arguably, the forums with the worst s:n in the industry.

What a shitty goddamn point to try and argue. Just daft.

2. Don't try to compare it to other games. There are 11 million WoW players. The other games are a drop in the bucket and not even worth mentioning, at least not in english speaking countries. But by extension, being addicted - I don't mean casually playing - but being addicted to any online game isn't exactly healthy. I'd know. I've been that way before. Generally, and luckily for me I suppose, it tends to fade within oh, 48 hours. If that. And I'm also willing to use vacation time for games since I hate trips unless they're somewhere very, very far away. Road trips need not apply. As such, my addictiveness may seem... moreso here on f13 because it manifests itself more often as I play on a monitor next to another monitor that has the forums on it.

3. Do not talk about this in relation to the gaming industry.

This was not, is not, and shouldn't be about the gaming industry. If you're commenting on whether the gaming industry should allow this sort of filtration - well, shit, it's just like any other industry. They don't want useless sacks of flesh, they want people who's productivity can be equated to profit. If you're talking about this, it mostly means you are on a site that fucked up the original story to begin with. Which makes my teeth gnash.

I'll end with that. There's too much stupid brewing on the net this week. Also it's too close to Christmas, so I'm just not feeling it any further than that.

[Venkman]

I only disagree with #2.

Most diku-inspired MMOs are like this. Addiction in this genre has always been talked about. And anecdotes about work performance have always been talked about. WoW made it mass, but it is neither unique in this genre nor unique in general.

Welcome to the age of crowd-sourced journalism, where everyone in the industry is so afraid to miss the next big article that they copy/paste everything in the hopes of attaching their name to it. So their new gophers compare topics against lists and come up with corrolations like "Raph made game" "WoW big game" "economy and hiring are down" and spit out certain links that never bother getting to the source because the publisher knows their audience ain't going to care either.

The next stage of this discussion will be medical and psychological pundits who talk about the same crap they did when Shawn Woolly commited suicide over EQ1. But they'll miss the same things most other people do. Instead of talking about WoW, or even just MMOs, they should be focused on how the easy proliferation of tools and systems (games, blogs, forums, stat sites, etc) has made certain activities much easier to become addicted to. And how that is complemented by a good chunk of basic human nature.

And that's everything from fantasy leagues to DIY home and computer sites to politics to online purchases to e-trading. Oh, and to MMOs to.

That is the topic. Combating and filtering for that is really what the employers are doing.

[UnSub]

Going way, way back, Tale's meal with his online media recruiter friend in Australia and that discussion apparently has worldwide implications.

The reality - that guys involved in online media don't want their employees spending that time and bandwidth on WoW - is apparently a shock to people in North America, Europe and beyond.

[Samprimary]

Really, I'm just curious as to why anyone anywhere would be surprised by this.

[Fabricated]

Internet journalism.

[Lantyssa]

Really, I'm just curious as to why anyone anywhere would be surprised by this.

I'm surprised by how viral it's gotten.  The idiocy surrounding it not so much.

[schild]

Really, I'm just curious as to why anyone anywhere would be surprised by this.

Yea, I've asked that question a few times in this thread, I don't think we'll ever get an answer.

[Tale]

It's not a surprising news item, it's a compelling news item for millions of people playing MMORPGs, a number of whom are addicted and trying to tell themselves it's OK. Like a "your obesity/smoking/bungee-jumping will eventually kill you" story. Obvious, but clickable. Like the top 100 most-clicked stories of the year - can you see an actual hard news story among them?

This story hasn't gone particularly viral, it's just a clickable item for a known audience of people who live their lives online, so everybody who wants traffic from that audience needs a rewritten copy for the clicks.

[mutantmagnet]

Ah, the irony. It brought down MY site. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo

Oh fuck, that's the new rickroll right there. Totally using that.

No!

This should be the new rickroll.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ztd3WfgSu-w&feature=related

[Ratman_tf]

Ah, the irony. It brought down MY site. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo

Oh fuck, that's the new rickroll right there. Totally using that.

No!

This should be the new rickroll.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ztd3WfgSu-w&feature=related

Jesus that kid's got some serious gums.

[Samprimary]

No!

This should be the new rickroll.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ztd3WfgSu-w&feature=related

ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[Raph]

Wait, IT GETS BETTER!!! Emphasis mine, 

The news bit started down in the message board trenches, so take it with the grain of salt it deserves, but the corporate reasoning has a certain verisimilitude. This, along with the fact that the blog that originally hosted this story has been suspended does raise some questions. However, it is too early at this juncture to rule out accusations of libel or simple excessive traffic as explanations for the blog’s disappearance.

 

Link:

http://www.pixelsocks.com/2008/12/19/there-must-be-a-discrimination/

[Venkman]

Round on up boys, we gotta go git Raph from the clink!

Edit to add: Schild, I know you can do something with this. This is the best indictment of "journalism" we've seen in a while, particularly since it's so benign and the truth so obvious. This would beat out the Vanguard story fer sure!

[mutantmagnet]

Round on up boys, we gotta go git Raph from the clink!

Edit to add: Schild, I know you can do something with this. This is the best indictment of "journalism" we've seen in a while, particularly since it's so benign and the truth so obvious. This would beat out the Vanguard story fer sure!

:I
Are you being facetious or do you seriously expect people to absorb the magnitude of the folly here? Connecting the dots is more sophisticated than a sob story about employees fired in a parking lot.

I'm not saying don't do it. I just sure this won't be received as well as the Vanguard debacle.