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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Topic: Recruiter told not to hire WoW players 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Recruiter told not to hire WoW players  (Read 512203 times)
Ratman_tf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3818


Reply #245 on: December 18, 2008, 03:42:41 PM

Yup. I never want a salary position. Not getting paid for my overtime (which is required by law in my profession, you can't get some goony exception) would touch me off.
Having a strong work ethic is one thing. Being a sucker is quite another.

As soon as I can find a faculty position that pays an hourly wage, I'll agree. 

Not all of us are suckers that work for salary... many are people that lack an alternative in their field.

Sure. And you're not all "I"m proud to work 80 hours of overtime for free!".

I think it's sad that standing up for a person's own worth is seen as a liability.



 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
-Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation.
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #246 on: December 18, 2008, 04:23:07 PM

Fuck, I hope any of you idiots working over 50 hours are getting paid a lot.   I haven't worked a week more than 50h in my life, and I refuse to do so.  Dad and I had a long, long talk about that after he was thrown away by an employer during a buyout of his division, despite being an workaholic like you all in the President's position and turning a company around from 3 mil loss to 2 mil profit in 2 years time. (During which I saw him sundays and saturday evenings. He was regularly gone before I went to school and home at 9pm.) Enjoy your kids' therapy bills, mine were a bitch.

If you're working 60 hours, and just one of your co-workers is also working 60 hours, guess what?  You just saved your company 90 grand.  The first firm I worked for out of college did this on purpose.  They weren't shy about it, either.  "We expect you to work a minimum of 50 hours, so we don't have to hire another person.  If you can't do that we're going to have problems." Was how it was put at my annual when they reviewed and saw I was only working 45 on a regular basis.  Guess what, I was fired a month and a half later when my hours didn't up.

You're a cog, a tool and nothing more than that.  If they can abuse you, they will. Particularly in this economic hard time.

Yes. And no. You do what you can while it works for you. When it doesn't you look to change the condition or move on. The big things to remember are: a) the company never cares about you until you make them care; and, b) no matter what you do and what position you have, you are as easily dispensible as everyone else. Anyone who's ever though "they can't get rid of me, the whole place would fall about!" is dead wrong. The place can and will, it just means whoever's left when you're gone takes up the slack.

I don't work 60 hours a week. I just happen to spend 15+ hours out of the office occasionally checking in. Hell, I'd guess maybe 1% of all employeed people actually work all of the 40 hours they're supposed to, particularly those in cushy salaried positions. There's so much freakin' waste in office environments between meetings that started late and had no agendas so no planned resolution, social catchups, the aforementioned fantasy sports league crap, dozens of hours a months spent F13, and so on. If people actually sat back and wondered just how much work they actually did during work, there's a better than average chance they're well under the minimum hours to put in. But salaried folks aren't often asked to track their work in 15 minute increments, and thus this becomes the hidden cost.

Not me though. I'm a paragon of virtuosity and proactive efficiency  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
Fraeg
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1018

Mad skills with the rod.


Reply #247 on: December 18, 2008, 05:01:59 PM

no matter what you do and what position you have, you are as easily dispensable as everyone else. Anyone who's ever though "they can't get rid of me, the whole place would fall about!" is dead wrong. The place can and will, it just means whoever's left when you're gone takes up the slack.

THIS

If you are going to learn one and only one thing about the workplace, being a part of the workforce, having a career, etc.  This is the one lesson you cannot forget.

"There is dignity and deep satisfaction in facing life and death without the comfort of heaven or the fear of hell and in sailing toward the great abyss with a smile."
Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 4229


Reply #248 on: December 18, 2008, 06:03:14 PM


no matter what you do and what position you have, you are as easily dispensable as everyone else. Anyone who's ever though "they can't get rid of me, the whole place would fall about!" is dead wrong.

Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #249 on: December 18, 2008, 07:28:52 PM

Awesome. I'm lazy, can you PM your Transformers cartoon? Want to bronze it smiley
Raph
Developers
Posts: 1472

Title delayed while we "find the fun."


WWW
Reply #250 on: December 18, 2008, 10:01:30 PM

Ah, the irony. It brought down MY site.  ACK!
UnSub
Contributor
Posts: 8064


WWW
Reply #251 on: December 18, 2008, 10:26:52 PM

Ah, the irony. It brought down MY site.  ACK!

I never knew you had that much power Raph. You speak and the world media listens.

Ratman_tf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3818


Reply #252 on: December 18, 2008, 10:28:04 PM




 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
-Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation.
apocrypha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6711

Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!


Reply #253 on: December 18, 2008, 10:36:34 PM

Ah, the irony. It brought down MY site.  ACK!

Intarweb karma  why so serious?

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
WindupAtheist
Army of One
Posts: 7028

Badicalthon


Reply #254 on: December 19, 2008, 01:58:13 AM


Oh fuck, that's the new rickroll right there. Totally using that.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
IainC
Developers
Posts: 6538

Wargaming.net


WWW
Reply #255 on: December 19, 2008, 02:00:36 AM

This morning I had three emails in my inbox from colleagues and friends linking me to various iterations of this 'story'.

I weep for humanity.

- And in stranger Iains, even Death may die -

SerialForeigner Photography.
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60350


WWW
Reply #256 on: December 19, 2008, 02:02:01 AM

Ah, the irony. It brought down MY site.  ACK!

Didn't just bring it down, it looks as though this non-story has actually run over your bandwidth quota. Might want to move to a lighter CMS with a lighter themeset. awesome, for real

Of course, this could all be solved by the online media actually trying to make stories rather than steal blog posts and just bang on the keyboard hoping for the best. undecided

Quote
This morning I had three emails in my inbox from colleagues and friends linking me to various iterations of this 'story'.

I weep for humanity.

Tell your colleagues to not be "dumb."
Baldrake
Terracotta Army
Posts: 636


Reply #257 on: December 19, 2008, 06:20:38 AM

Bruce on Games has picked it up.

I like Bruce. He's relentlessly self-promotional and I'd lay odds he's on Microsoft's payroll. But he's entertaining.
Raph
Developers
Posts: 1472

Title delayed while we "find the fun."


WWW
Reply #258 on: December 19, 2008, 08:11:34 AM

Ah, the irony. It brought down MY site.  ACK!

Didn't just bring it down, it looks as though this non-story has actually run over your bandwidth quota. Might want to move to a lighter CMS with a lighter themeset. awesome, for real


CPU usage probably, that's what usually brings it down. I am like a beaten puppy with this webhost, they keep doing this to me, and I keep renewing my hosting with them. :P
palmer_eldritch
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1999


WWW
Reply #259 on: December 19, 2008, 08:45:00 AM

I work in the media, and one of the trends is to encourage journalists to pick up stories from "social media", which apparently includes forums and blogs. So expect to see more of this.

On the topic of how employers view their staff: when I was trying to get my first job, one of the questions an editor asked me in an interview was how I intended to live on the salary they paid trainees, as it wasn't enough to live on. This wasn't said apologetically, and it wasn't an exaggeration. I guess it was meant to be a test of my resourcefulness or something.
kildorn
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5014


Reply #260 on: December 19, 2008, 08:46:42 AM

I work in the media, and one of the trends is to encourage journalists to pick up stories from "social media", which apparently includes forums. So expect to see more of this.


... have these people ever MET the internet? And they're going to believe things written on an internet forum?
Raph
Developers
Posts: 1472

Title delayed while we "find the fun."


WWW
Reply #261 on: December 19, 2008, 08:55:13 AM

 ACK!

Quote
Online gaming journalist Raph Koster has posted on his blog a statement he received from a job recruitment consultant accurately showing that even though some people cite the leadership experience gained from establishing a guild in WoW, employers tend to avoid such persons.

This is beyond belief. Tale, I guess you're not even in the story anymore.
Lantyssa
Terracotta Army
Posts: 20848


Reply #262 on: December 19, 2008, 08:56:40 AM

Raph, I'd give you the webhost info I gave Yeg, but I don't want to risk your machine-crashing blog ending up on one of the servers my organization is on.  wink

Edit while posting: Shame on you, taking credit for Tall Tale's work. Grin

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Obo
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Posts: 107


Reply #263 on: December 19, 2008, 09:34:24 AM

How long before it becomes "Ralph Costner refuses to hire WoW players!"?
kildorn
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5014


Reply #264 on: December 19, 2008, 09:38:56 AM

How long before it becomes "Ralph Costner refuses to hire WoW players!"?

Quick, email wonkette!

edit: I would also be horrified if someone's resume actively cited their guild as leadership experience for work. We're establishing a DKP system for stock options!
cad187
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1


Reply #265 on: December 19, 2008, 09:47:50 AM

I work at the helpdesk for a local communications company and I play WOW.  I also work circles around my co-workers.  My projects are done on time, my tickets are done on time.  When my boss comes asking for volunteers for a new project, I'm the first one to to jump.  When my peers need assistance, they come ask me.

The manager of our server team plays WOW.  The rest of the server admins play some sort of online games regularly (FPS).  A friend that used to work with me who got me playing WOW also plays and was hired to support the UC Berkley network (this was a big promotion for him).

So to all you haters - remember this the next time you find yourself making a personal phone call or browsing the local news/weather sites, planning personal vacations or buying gifts online.  You're no better.

palmer_eldritch
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1999


WWW
Reply #266 on: December 19, 2008, 10:07:09 AM

Edit: Thought better of being snarky to cad187. No post here, sorry.
Slyfeind
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Posts: 2037


Reply #267 on: December 19, 2008, 10:13:15 AM

It's too bad all those hot-linkers aren't actually reading this thread. It would be lovely if they knew how much we're making fun of them.

Raph, I don't suppose you'd be willing to link to the article that called you an "online gaming journalist?"

"Role playing in an MMO is more like an open orchestra with no conductor, anyone of any skill level can walk in at any time, and everyone brings their own instrument and plays whatever song they want.  Then toss PvP into the mix and things REALLY get ugly!" -Count Nerfedalot
apocrypha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6711

Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!


Reply #268 on: December 19, 2008, 10:14:36 AM

This is beyond belief. Tale, I guess you're not even in the story anymore.

Raph, if you want some more insight into the parlous state of journalism these days then check out Bad Science. It's not gaming related in any way but it's horrifying, edifying and often very funny (in a tragic kind of way).

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Ravanos
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Posts: 9


Reply #269 on: December 19, 2008, 10:51:41 AM

after dealing with the WoW playerbase ... I probably wouldn't hire a WoW player either.
Ratman_tf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3818


Reply #270 on: December 19, 2008, 10:57:15 AM

I work in the media, and one of the trends is to encourage journalists to pick up stories from "social media", which apparently includes forums. So expect to see more of this.


... have these people ever MET the internet? And they're going to believe things written on an internet forum?

9000 penises.



 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
-Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation.
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60350


WWW
Reply #271 on: December 19, 2008, 11:10:19 AM

How long before it becomes "Ralph Costner refuses to hire WoW players!"?

Who?

ACK!

Quote
Online gaming journalist Raph Koster has posted on his blog a statement he received from a job recruitment consultant accurately showing that even though some people cite the leadership experience gained from establishing a guild in WoW, employers tend to avoid such persons.

This is beyond belief. Tale, I guess you're not even in the story anymore.
Nothing is beyond belief with these amateur punks anymore. I'm so glad Shawn Elliot is doing a Games Journalism Symposium so all those people can pretend to "be real" for a few minutes before not actually inciting any sort of change (I hope they prove me wrong).

Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 4229


Reply #272 on: December 19, 2008, 11:12:51 AM

I work at the helpdesk for a local communications company and I play WOW.  I also work circles around my co-workers.  My projects are done on time, my tickets are done on time.  When my boss comes asking for volunteers for a new project, I'm the first one to to jump.  When my peers need assistance, they come ask me.

The manager of our server team plays WOW.  The rest of the server admins play some sort of online games regularly (FPS).  A friend that used to work with me who got me playing WOW also plays and was hired to support the UC Berkley network (this was a big promotion for him).

So to all you haters - remember this the next time you find yourself making a personal phone call or browsing the local news/weather sites, planning personal vacations or buying gifts online.  You're no better.

Not really. You're just priding yourself as an exception above the rule.

This does not change the rule.

due to the way it mimics addictive dependency, in practice, if you are a big-time WoW player you are very likely to have shit sleep patterns, and there's very few WoW players who haven't skipped days and/or been late to work a number of times due to their gaming habits, and they'll usually admit it.

Also, if someone's a wow player and they work on a computer, I could bet dimes to dollars that their manager could open up their history and see hours wasted on the wow forums / armory / whatev.

WoW is just notoriously bad for work and it's something we've all known for a while now. It makes a good 'cull' tag for recruiters, so it's unsurprising that you would start seeing this.
Matt
Developers
Posts: 63

Iron Realms


WWW
Reply #273 on: December 19, 2008, 11:21:10 AM

edit: I would also be horrified if someone's resume actively cited their guild as leadership experience for work.

I've seen guild leadership framed as substantial leadership experience multiple times on resumes, and those resumes go right in the circular bin. It's not that you can't learn anything from leading a guild, imho. It's more that your judgement is suspect if you think the amount and quality of leadership experience you gain from running a guild is meaningful enough to include on a resume.

On the other hand, I look favorably upon candidates who play MMOs. In fact, I ask it in every interview and if you don't sound like you've got much or any experience with MMOs, your chances of getting hired are slim. I don't see where the fear about hiring WoW players would come in. My team is very productive. What they do when they go home is pretty irrelevant to me as long as they stay productive and make the lives of the people around them pleasant.

"And thus, they ate horseflesh as if it was venison, and they reckoned it most savory, for hunger served in the place of seasoning."
Ravanos
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9


Reply #274 on: December 19, 2008, 11:33:52 AM

edit: I would also be horrified if someone's resume actively cited their guild as leadership experience for work.

I've seen guild leadership framed as substantial leadership experience multiple times on resumes, and those resumes go right in the circular bin. It's not that you can't learn anything from leading a guild, imho. It's more that your judgement is suspect if you think the amount and quality of leadership experience you gain from running a guild is meaningful enough to include on a resume.

On the other hand, I look favorably upon candidates who play MMOs. In fact, I ask it in every interview and if you don't sound like you've got much or any experience with MMOs, your chances of getting hired are slim. I don't see where the fear about hiring WoW players would come in. My team is very productive. What they do when they go home is pretty irrelevant to me as long as they stay productive and make the lives of the people around them pleasant.

i can't wait till my next job asks my biggest achievement ... and say "well I have cleared all the raid content from EQ2 (pre-TSO)".

im sure ill be hired on the spot!
« Last Edit: December 19, 2008, 11:53:32 AM by Ravanos »
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60350


WWW
Reply #275 on: December 19, 2008, 11:44:14 AM

I work at the helpdesk for a local communications company and I play WOW.

Anecdotal exceptions are fun. The real question is, are you dumb enough to put a game on your CV or bring it up casually in an interview?
Edenfall
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11


Reply #276 on: December 19, 2008, 12:24:23 PM


You should have put that in the "WoW/Wii is making gamers stupider" thread.  I don't recall which one that is, but I'm sure you can find it.

I was going to go for the "Attention whores responding to their own drivel because no one else is" thread, but I'm pretty sure he can find that one too.
Actually, I just constantly elaborate on my thoughts, so it's normal for me to add things I "forgot" or thought of later. Quoting one self might seem pompous, but it's either elaboration on a previous statement or a random new statement which should have been related to the previous statement to actually make sense. Anyhow, not fighting to defend myself; just posting a different point of view :>




Not really. You're just priding yourself as an exception above the rule.

This does not change the rule.

Still proves there are exceptions. Not saying an employer would give a damn though.




By the way, how many people here a posting from work?  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?


That image is actually on the outside of my office-door. May not be the best impression, but at least it's better than what was hanging there before.


Maybe I should hang this one up instead.
After all, I am front-line support.






Edit: Added the following

I work at the helpdesk for a local communications company and I play WOW.

Anecdotal exceptions are fun. The real question is, are you dumb enough to put a game on your CV or bring it up casually in an interview?
Sadly, dishonesty and assumptions are a great part of the world, so that would be the worst idea ever.
Talking about previous gaming hobbies (as long as they are behind) shouldn't be an obstacle though, in my opinion. Depends about whether you're looking for the job of your life, or just being desperate for money. Being obsessive can be a good thing.

Then again, I'm talking out of my own mind. People are retarded - bosses are retarded.
Imagine being able to hire someone without any relevant education, and putting them in charge of the county dental network.
Hell, screw competence; talk the shit out of those employers, and you'll get the job!
« Last Edit: December 19, 2008, 12:34:32 PM by Edenfall »
Raph
Developers
Posts: 1472

Title delayed while we "find the fun."


WWW
Reply #277 on: December 19, 2008, 12:46:04 PM


Raph, I don't suppose you'd be willing to link to the article that called you an "online gaming journalist?"

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Employers-Don-039-t-Like-World-of-Warcraft-Players-100354.shtml
IainC
Developers
Posts: 6538

Wargaming.net


WWW
Reply #278 on: December 19, 2008, 12:49:24 PM


Raph, I don't suppose you'd be willing to link to the article that called you an "online gaming journalist?"

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Employers-Don-039-t-Like-World-of-Warcraft-Players-100354.shtml
The use of language in that article makes me cringe. Where do these people learn to write?

- And in stranger Iains, even Death may die -

SerialForeigner Photography.
Tale
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8567

sıɥʇ ǝʞıן sʞןɐʇ


Reply #279 on: December 19, 2008, 12:52:46 PM


Raph, I don't suppose you'd be willing to link to the article that called you an "online gaming journalist?"

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Employers-Don-039-t-Like-World-of-Warcraft-Players-100354.shtml

Commenter: "I think this article is spot on".

(edit for the Scots - that site pointed me to something with a fantastic name.)

Where do these people learn to write?

The internet.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2008, 01:00:48 PM by Tale »
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